Labels and unorganized learning, oh my.
harrisjen41@...
I have been labeled from the beginning...the list is too long to even start, but one was dyslexia*. However, I wasn't really...it was an excuse the school gave me because I wouldn't conform to their way. I did not see reading what they wanted or learn what they wanted me to useful. I remember, as they put it, rebelliously doing projects I wanted instead of the assigned ones. It did not set well with most of my teachers. However, one was intrigued by my "wit and bravery". She wasn't so sure I was dyslexia. She was my sixth grade teacher and asked me what I wanted to read about and what I wanted to do. I told her I wanted to study about Anne Frank and read Gilly Hopkins. :D She let me. The results were amazing and I remember that was my first positive learning experience in school.
As I grew into being a mother (still growing 19 years later), I saw the paradox of change in my view of labels and it is in part to my self education. If I wanted to learn about it, I did. If I lost interest, I moved to something else. When I read a book out loud to my children they all would pick something up differently. So I noticed the one size fits all education (so it wasn't just me, PHEW moment) did not fit. So what was my homeschool suppose to look like...the standard label....didn't feel right. It never had. I tried every relaxed method possible!
THEN WE DECIDE TO MAKE A PLAYROOM!
"MY" playroom was the picture of perfection! It fit all the labels of the large family play room...everyone that came over was just amazed. The walls and shelves hung neatly with dishpans and plastic containers each labeled to what was to go inside of it. My thought was "I" could organize their playtime and they would have more fun. However, the down fall was it was never put back where it was suppose to be. Never. Expectations and frustrations mounded. Then one day I stepped back and all I saw were dishpans and plastic containers....no labels. Then I visualized how my children felt (how I felt) when I would only allow them to learn what was labeled (when I say labeled it could a variety of things...such as..age level books, movies, games etc.) to be put inside of them. That day I peeled all the labels off...literally and figuratively...off every dishpan, plastic container and child. The containers would be filled with what the children wanted them to be filled with. Sometimes I walk by and peak in and see a little of this and a whole lot of that all mixed together in each storage container. Just like my children. No labels here anymore. That day was our first day of deschooling and we haven't looked back.
So my question is.....
How do you handle it when your family's education looks like a disorganized container full of things to others...people are usually more comfortable when they can neatly see results, such as papers and projects.
My sister is a teacher in a public school and she likes to ask to see what they have "been up to". :[
Also, my sister has not been around much until I was given custody of her grandson...so I am new to this line of questioning. Everyone else in my family trust me and don't ask about anything...just for advice. However, she is a "public school teacher" and she lets me know it!
Also, I am a little annoyed that just because I am raising her grandson she can intrude on the education of my family...which will include her grandson. She may just not know it yet...:D.
Jen
*this in no means takes away from people that really have this learning disorder...this was my experience only.
Sandra Dodd
-=-How do you handle it when your family's education looks like a disorganized container full of things to others...people are usually more comfortable when they can neatly see results, such as papers and projects. -=-
Stop thinking of it as “education.”
Start thinking of learning. Not teaching, not education. Not school, not curriculum. Just learning.
Learning doesn’t happen in a big—labelled or unlabelled, organized or diorganized. It only happens inside the learner.
-=-That day was our first day of deschooling and we haven't looked back. -=-
The rest of your post sounds like you’re looking back.
-=-My sister is a teacher in a public school and she likes to ask to see what they have "been up to". :[-=-
If you have a blog with photos of things you’re doing, that can be what she can look at to see what you’ve been up to.
-=-How do you handle it when your family's education looks like a disorganized container full of things to others...people are usually more comfortable when they can neatly see results, such as papers and projects. -=-
This question is “What is unschooling?”
-=-Also, I am a little annoyed that just because I am raising her grandson she can intrude on the education of my family...which will include her grandson. -=-
There are problems raising someone else’s child. There always have been problems with it, there always will be. His biological grandmother having rights could be be one of the smallest problems,
But about unschooling, be careful what words you use, because your thinking can’t change unless you examine your thoughts, and the words you use in writing show what you’re thinking (speaking, too, but we can’t hear you from here—and writing is worse, because you had a chance to edit it, but the word “education” was posted.
So think about it. :-)
Meanwhile, DO go through Pam Laricchia’s intro to unschooling.
These pages might help:
Sandra
harrisjen41@...
Sorry my writing was/is bad. I have never been good at it, but I try. The word "education" was used to refer what my sister sees it as, "education" and that is the only thing that she could relate to it as. In my subject heading I used the word that describes us and what "we believe".... "learning". That is why I was seeking help. I don't know how to talk to her about it when the time comes. The looking back was referring to our family's decision to unschool. I feel it is okay to reflect on how one comes to where they are. That is learning at it best. Also, reaching out for help when you are dealing with an highly "educated" teacher as a sister is a true sign that I want to explain it in a way she could hopefully see. This is very important and I am looking for true help because I know the challenges ahead.
Jen
Joyce Fetteroll
> On Dec 13, 2014, at 12:26 AM, harrisjen41@... wrote:I suspect you've been carrying around a "bad writer" label for most of your life. Your writing flows. It could flow even better if you get rid of the label and know that your writing can grow better with confidence and attention.
>
> Sorry my writing was/is bad. I have never been good at it, but I try.
A label is like a glass jar over a plant. The plant can only grow as large as the jar. It can't ever grow beyond it. You can't ever grow beyond "bad writer" as long as you hold onto the label.
The same goes for kids. By avoiding labeling them, they can fully explore their potential :-) Labels confine them.
> The word "education" was used to refer what my sister sees it as, "education" and that is the only thing that she could relate to it as.But you weren't writing to your sister. The people here do know most of the world speaks in schoolish language. :-)
The first point is that "education" too is a label. A label on an idea. The label affects how we think about that idea. *Your sister* may see disorganized education. But *you're* trying to describe free flowing learning in a way she'll understand, *not* disorganized education! :-)
The words we use changes how we think about the ideas.
The second point is that all answers are written towards a dozen, a hundred others reading along. *They* read "disorganized education" and are wondering how to describe it. It helps them (and you) to rip off the "disorganized education" label on the idea and put a learning label on it instead :-)
> I don't know how to talk to her about it when the time comes.It's best not to talk about "it" (unschooling). Talk about your kids :-) Talk about what they're interested in, doing, exploring. Bring up questions they've asked and insights and answers they've given. (A notebook or several laying around to capture them may help.) As Sandra suggested a blog with pictures can also help. Then she'll see what they're doing and can ask about that. Otherwise her foundation is only what she sees in your home.
She may not be familiar with the idea of the Open Classroom from the 1970s. But that might be a bonus if you know an education term she doesn't ;-) You can read up on the concept of the Open Classroom through Google and on Sandra's site.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_classroom
http://educationnext.org/theopenclassroom/
Responding to questions about unschooling (there are several links there too)
http://sandradodd.com/response
Several Definitions of Unschooling
http://sandradodd.com/unschool/moredefinitions
There may be some more ideas you can mine here since Sandra's talking about her own path to unschooling that led through being a teacher.
Sandra Dodd Pt 1 : Path To Unschooling
http://sandradodd.com/video/sandra1
What is Unschooling? This is a chat about Unschooling so not as organized as a page but a big flow of ideas. :-)
http://sandradodd.com/chats/bigbook/pages3-5_definitions.html
Joyce
Sandra Dodd
-=-Sorry my writing was/is bad. I have never been good at it, but I try. -=-
Your writing is fine! School writing isn’t real writing. What you wrote here conveyed information for a purpose, and you got a response. LOTS of people will benefit from seeing the exchange, and from thinking about the ideas in it. That is more real and imporant than anything you might have written in school, ever.
-=- In my subject heading I used the word that describes us and what "we believe".... "learning". That is why I was seeking help.-=-
Then please don’t argue with the help you’re getting. We’re seeing things you don’t. Relax.
-=-This is very important and I am looking for true help because I know the challenges ahead. -=-
If you think you can get truer help elsewhere, then you should look elsewhere. I don’t know of a better source for unschooling information than this discussion and the people on it, anywhere on earth in 2014. But what is involved in accepting help is really relaxing into the idea that we might be right, and you might benefit from changing some things.
Here’s a tool to help you move from where you are (which involves fear) to where some of us are (calm confidence and experience):
If you don’t think you need to change, then you can’t change.
Deschooling doesn’t happen once and for all. It needs to happen a lot in the beginning and then be running in the background (in processing terms) forevermore.
Sandra
Sandra Dodd
Meanwhile, DO go through Pam Laricchia’s intro to unschooling.
I brought that back from another post.
PLEASE, for your family’s good, subscribe to that series. It will take a few weeks to get through it all, but it will be a huge help.
Sandra
jen harris
I believe I am in the best place for help...fear has taken over because I know that my sister will not understand. Also, when I read your response I doubted myself and my family even being unschooling. I really meant that she sees it as education...we see it as whole life learning. I should have explained it better and keep my mind from wondering and focus on my audience.
I am already subscribed to the email that you suggested. I have been reading and learning about unschooling for over a year now and I have Sandra's website, Pam's website and Joyce's website all on my tabs and they are never deleted so I can read the wealth of information available; which I read daily. There are so many other resources but these are the most truthful unschooling resources out there.
I was thinking last night after I read your response that I knew I would get a harsh reality. The first was "failure" that I can't even get "unschooling" right. Then I was determined to put the principles of unschooling and apply them to my thinking and move past my sister's questions and my own negative thinking.
This is the first time I have made any exchange with other unschoolers, so I thank you for all your time and patience responding to my questions.
Jen
On Saturday, December 13, 2014 12:26 PM, "Sandra Dodd Sandra@... [AlwaysLearning]" <[email protected]> wrote:
Meanwhile, DO go through Pam Laricchia’s intro to unschooling.
I brought that back from another post.
PLEASE, for your family’s good, subscribe to that series. It will take a few weeks to get through it all, but it will be a huge help.
Sandra
Sandra Dodd
-=-I was thinking last night after I read your response that I knew I would get a harsh reality. The first was "failure" that I can't even get "unschooling" right. Then I was determined to put the principles of unschooling and apply them to my thinking and move past my sister's questions and my own negative thinking.-=-
I can’t tell whether you want us to feel guilty. Or me to feel guilty.
I don’t feel guilty. My website costs $130 a year and a LOT of time to maintain and add to. It would be cheaper to delete it.
This group doesn’t cost money, but it costs those who read every single post a lot of time. Your post I’m responding to is #75181. You probably haven’t read all 75,000, but I have, and I’m not the only one. Luckily, they’ve come gradually (sometimes swiftly and overwhelmingly) over thirteen years. Thirteen years. I could delete this group with two clicks. Gone.
So I would prefer not to be made to feel guilty.
-=-I was thinking last night after I read your response that I knew I would get a harsh reality. -=-
The reality you came here to share with us sounds harsh. It sounds very difficult and is likely to get worse from time to time.
Had people here written soothing, not-critical, fluffy support, you would not have been helped at all. “Harsh reality” can make things better. Fluffy tea-party support can make things worse.
Had you been told it was none of your sister’s business, it would have been a lie. It might have made you feel better for a minute, and screwed with your head for a year.
If people had said you know what’s best go with your instinct whatever you do is fine don’t listen to anyone else your children are lucky to have you and whatever you think is unschooling IS unschooling, that would have been pouring a soothing balm all over an honest question. Not helpful.
You can read those things here:
They won’t help with your actual question, but they might help to to see the value in honest feedback from experienced unschoolers.
Sandra
Sandra Dodd
-=--I was thinking last night after I read your response that I knew I would get a harsh reality. The first was "failure" that I can't even get "unschooling" right. -=-
You’d think I would be through, but there’s another problem here.
If you can’t persuade us that you get unschooling, how will you be able to really explain it to others in such a way that they are impressed and confident that you really know what you’re doing?
The best defense from your sister is to understand unschooling up, down, in, out and in your sleep. We can help you do that, if you want help. Doing it mindfully, without ANY thoughts of “education” or other problematical false trails, will help you get there more directly and stay there more solidly.
http://sandradodd.com/terminology isn’t on that list
Sandra
jen harris
That is why I here...I knew I would get truthful answers to my questions. I also had no intent to even try to make anyone feel guilty and most certainly not you, Sandra. I am an open book to sharing my feelings. I am a late night thinker and instead of letting things get to me this time and shutting down emotionally, I really put a lot of thought into what you said because I do want to do better. I must have read it 10 times to really see it.
You asked if I really wanted the help...I do! I am here because I believe you can help me. I really don't want to be just a post number. I have 12 children and I want the best for them and I truly believe it is unschooling.
I have the other sites you tagged and I appreciate that because I have not read some of those before. I am going to read those tonight. I really do appreciate the links. :D
Jen
On Saturday, December 13, 2014 1:41 PM, "Sandra Dodd Sandra@... [AlwaysLearning]" <[email protected]> wrote:
jen harris
I agree with you and I see what you are saying. I will be re-reading a lot because I am ready to let go of what has been holding me back...myself.
Jen
On Saturday, December 13, 2014 1:53 PM, "Sandra Dodd Sandra@... [AlwaysLearning]" <[email protected]> wrote:
-=--I was thinking last night after I read your response that I knew I would get a harsh reality. The first was "failure" that I can't even get "unschooling" right. -=-
You’d think I would be through, but there’s another problem here.
If you can’t persuade us that you get unschooling, how will you be able to really explain it to others in such a way that they are impressed and confident that you really know what you’re doing?
The best defense from your sister is to understand unschooling up, down, in, out and in your sleep. We can help you do that, if you want help. Doing it mindfully, without ANY thoughts of “education” or other problematical false trails, will help you get there more directly and stay there more solidly.
http://sandradodd.com/terminology isn’t on that list
Sandra
Lisa Celedon
<<-=-I was thinking last night after I read your response that I knew I
would get a harsh reality.>>
One of the biggest, best things I've learned from this group is that the harshness is inside me. The critical, demeaning voice is inside my own head. It doesn't belong to the people writing and helping here. The people writing and helping here are very kind and generous and wonderful. If you reread what people wrote, imagining their words as spoken with kindness and warmth, it takes the edge off. ;)
<<The first was "failure" that I can't even get "unschooling" right. Then I was determined to put the principles of unschooling and apply them to my thinking and move past my sister's questions and my own negative thinking.-=->>
I've been reading about unschooling for two and a half years. I am *still* trying to learn how to apply the principles that help unschooling thrive, and make choices based on principles instead of reacting out of fear, or confusion, or a need to control. The basic ideas that apply to learning and child development I understood really easily. But applying the relationship parts of it, wow. That is taking me a lot longer to work out.
Negative thinking too! I go through waves of months with lots of positive thinking and then negativity creeps up and gets a foot in the door... a crack widens, the door opens a bit more... I've been learning to get back over to the door and gently shut it now before it opens too much. I've learned that when negative thoughts come, not to give them as much air time in my brain--or out loud. It's been a slow shift. It confused me the first time negativity started creeping up on me again. Like, didn't I shake this? Wasn't I rid of negativity forever?
No, it's a lifelong practice. One that probably gets easier with time.
I'm guessing, because I don't know. I don't have the years- the decades of experience with this that others here do!
I was confused when this wasn't a neat, (fast-moving) linear progression of growth and understanding.
It's hard! Maybe easier for some. :) I get to points where I think I totally get it, only to then discover a whole area where I am totally confused and not getting it. I get it wrong a lot. Sometimes more than other times. But in the moments where I get it right, I get it right more fully and deeply than I did before. My pool of understanding is growing. Maybe someday it will be a lake or a sea. :)
A lot of it has to do with trust. I don't have a lot of positive experiences with trust in my life, so it doesn't come naturally to me. But I GET unschooling best when I trust that what these wonderful, experienced people have to say just *might* work better than the things I keep trying that just don't give me the peace and joy I want for my family. When I am willing to dismantle some of the shaky, rotting scaffolding I've grown up with and stubbornly cling to, and try rebuilding some things, looking to the models I have here, I start to understand the principles I want to have better, and end up answering a lot of my own questions.
Then I try a little, wait a little, watch, see peace and happiness blossom again, see myself navigate a tricky situation with fun and ingenuity!!! I find it easier to trust myself, and trust my kids.
And sometimes trust is harder for me, and I end up confused and full of doubt and questions until I recognize that I've still got a lot of that rotting old scaffolding left to dig up and let go.
Lisa C
One of the biggest, best things I've learned from this group is that the harshness is inside me. The critical, demeaning voice is inside my own head. It doesn't belong to the people writing and helping here. The people writing and helping here are very kind and generous and wonderful. If you reread what people wrote, imagining their words as spoken with kindness and warmth, it takes the edge off. ;)
<<The first was "failure" that I can't even get "unschooling" right. Then I was determined to put the principles of unschooling and apply them to my thinking and move past my sister's questions and my own negative thinking.-=->>
I've been reading about unschooling for two and a half years. I am *still* trying to learn how to apply the principles that help unschooling thrive, and make choices based on principles instead of reacting out of fear, or confusion, or a need to control. The basic ideas that apply to learning and child development I understood really easily. But applying the relationship parts of it, wow. That is taking me a lot longer to work out.
Negative thinking too! I go through waves of months with lots of positive thinking and then negativity creeps up and gets a foot in the door... a crack widens, the door opens a bit more... I've been learning to get back over to the door and gently shut it now before it opens too much. I've learned that when negative thoughts come, not to give them as much air time in my brain--or out loud. It's been a slow shift. It confused me the first time negativity started creeping up on me again. Like, didn't I shake this? Wasn't I rid of negativity forever?
No, it's a lifelong practice. One that probably gets easier with time.
I'm guessing, because I don't know. I don't have the years- the decades of experience with this that others here do!
I was confused when this wasn't a neat, (fast-moving) linear progression of growth and understanding.
It's hard! Maybe easier for some. :) I get to points where I think I totally get it, only to then discover a whole area where I am totally confused and not getting it. I get it wrong a lot. Sometimes more than other times. But in the moments where I get it right, I get it right more fully and deeply than I did before. My pool of understanding is growing. Maybe someday it will be a lake or a sea. :)
A lot of it has to do with trust. I don't have a lot of positive experiences with trust in my life, so it doesn't come naturally to me. But I GET unschooling best when I trust that what these wonderful, experienced people have to say just *might* work better than the things I keep trying that just don't give me the peace and joy I want for my family. When I am willing to dismantle some of the shaky, rotting scaffolding I've grown up with and stubbornly cling to, and try rebuilding some things, looking to the models I have here, I start to understand the principles I want to have better, and end up answering a lot of my own questions.
Then I try a little, wait a little, watch, see peace and happiness blossom again, see myself navigate a tricky situation with fun and ingenuity!!! I find it easier to trust myself, and trust my kids.
And sometimes trust is harder for me, and I end up confused and full of doubt and questions until I recognize that I've still got a lot of that rotting old scaffolding left to dig up and let go.
Lisa C
K Pennell
We're all learning all the time! Don't doubt yourself because you have more to learn. So do we all!
If you are talking to your sister, I wouldn't necessarily use the word "unschooling", as that may sound reactionary or alarming to "educators". I work in a school and most of my family members are teachers. I don't lie, but I don't go out of my way to alarm people or get into big discussions. With concerned family, I may say: "He is reading the Chronicles of Narnia now". Or "We built a solar oven out of a pizza box." or "We've been making tie-dye gifts for people" etc..People who care just want to know the kids aren't "being ignored" while they watch tv or play video games all day. You can reassure the ones that care usually pretty easily, because there is so much cool stuff going on!
From: "jen harris harrisjen41@... [AlwaysLearning]" <[email protected]>
To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2014 1:17 PM
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Labels and unorganized learning, oh my.
.
jen harris
K. Pennell, thank you for your advice. I used it today when my sister called and asked what the kidos were "studying" today. I took a deep breath and said, "Well, Marianna is looking up how to take care of beta fish, she is wanting one because her goldfish died". Oh, really was her reply....then she went on to tell me she had the most interesting discussions with the children when she took them to the ball game the other day. She told me that Joseph sure does know a lot about birds and Bethany was telling me about all the Barbie clothes that she has been designing and sewing. Her discussion went on to say "gosh, sounds like they stay busy all day".
Thank you again for taking the time to share your valuable advice. It has given me a step forward with my sister.
Jen
On Monday, December 15, 2014 6:33 PM, "K Pennell mrsringsabre@... [AlwaysLearning]" wrote:
We're all learning all the time! Don't doubt yourself because you have more to learn. So do we all!
If you are talking to your sister, I wouldn't necessarily use the word "unschooling", as that may sound reactionary or alarming to "educators". I work in a school and most of my family members are teachers. I don't lie, but I don't go out of my way to alarm people or get into big discussions. With concerned family, I may say: "He is reading the Chronicles of Narnia now". Or "We built a solar oven out of a pizza box." or "We've been making tie-dye gifts for people" etc..People who care just want to know the kids aren't "being ignored" while they watch tv or play video games all day. You can reassure the ones that care usually pretty easily, because there is so much cool stuff going on!