Toddlers and Sharing- any comments?
Cinira Longuinho
Hello,
I have been reading this forum for a few months now. I really enjoy it and I
am learning a lot. So, thank you!
I would love to hear some comments about toddlers and sharing. I have a 2
1/2 year old girl.
Today we were at a friends house and my friends son soon started playing
with a big toy. My daughter got curious with the toy and went to the front
of the toy and started playing with it... the boy step aside and kept only
watching her... He does not really speak. He is 2 years old. So he was sad
but did not do anything. I waited for my daughter to play a little bit with
the toy then I told her that she had her turn and that now was the boy's
turn. She started crying and saying no, no... and would hold a part of the
big toy very tight. I said I could see she really wanted to play and that
she would after the boy had his turn. I asked her to give the boy his turn.
She said no, no, no...Of course, she got really angry. Then I decided to
open her fingers so I could give the toy to the boy. I gave the toy to the
boy. Then the boy's mother came and said that I should not interfere...to
let the kids resolve the issue by themselves. My daughter was crying so I
held her and told her I knew it was hard to share and that I could see she
was really mad ... I tried to validate all her feelings. She started rubbing
her eyes and asked to take her nap... so I went upstairs and stayed with her
until she fell asleep.
In my way home I was thinking about my friends suggestion to just let the
kids resolve the issue by themselves... Does any one have any comments about
it? I am all ears.
Warmly,
C.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I have been reading this forum for a few months now. I really enjoy it and I
am learning a lot. So, thank you!
I would love to hear some comments about toddlers and sharing. I have a 2
1/2 year old girl.
Today we were at a friends house and my friends son soon started playing
with a big toy. My daughter got curious with the toy and went to the front
of the toy and started playing with it... the boy step aside and kept only
watching her... He does not really speak. He is 2 years old. So he was sad
but did not do anything. I waited for my daughter to play a little bit with
the toy then I told her that she had her turn and that now was the boy's
turn. She started crying and saying no, no... and would hold a part of the
big toy very tight. I said I could see she really wanted to play and that
she would after the boy had his turn. I asked her to give the boy his turn.
She said no, no, no...Of course, she got really angry. Then I decided to
open her fingers so I could give the toy to the boy. I gave the toy to the
boy. Then the boy's mother came and said that I should not interfere...to
let the kids resolve the issue by themselves. My daughter was crying so I
held her and told her I knew it was hard to share and that I could see she
was really mad ... I tried to validate all her feelings. She started rubbing
her eyes and asked to take her nap... so I went upstairs and stayed with her
until she fell asleep.
In my way home I was thinking about my friends suggestion to just let the
kids resolve the issue by themselves... Does any one have any comments about
it? I am all ears.
Warmly,
C.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
evawitsel
> In my way home I was thinking about my friends suggestion to just let theYes, I let them solve these kind of problems, but, no, not all by themselves. My children are 4 and 2,5 yo. When they argue about taking turns with their toys (or about anything else, what to watch on tv etc.), I ask them if they can think of their own solution. If they can't, I'll ask some questions to find out what the problem is and make some suggestions for possible solutions.
> kids resolve the issue by themselves... Does any one have any comments about
> it?
But usually they find their own solutions and they are always a lot better/creative than anything that I would have thought of!
> I waited for my daughter to play a little bit withThere are lots of other solutions to this problem: give your daughter something you know she will like better, so she will drop the first toy, ask her friend if he would like to play with something else, ask them if they can play with the toy together, sit down and play together with them etc.
> the toy then I told her that she had her turn and that now was the boy's
> turn.
> Then I decided toI would definitely not pry their fingers off of a toy they are holding. I find that when I give them some time to hand over what they took from the other, they almost always do so. My 4 yo son is not as good at this as my daughter. So sometimes I offer my 2,5 yo daughter other fun options, because I know my son will not give up the toys without a fight.
> open her fingers so I could give the toy to the boy. I gave the toy to the
> boy.
Eva
Robin Bentley
>I'll have some comments on how to approach things next time, but I'll
> In my way home I was thinking about my friends suggestion to just
> let the
> kids resolve the issue by themselves... Does any one have any
> comments about
> it? I am all ears.
>
answer this question first.
Two year olds need help to "resolve issues." I don't think it's ever
been a good thing to let kids "work it out" especially when they have
no idea how to. (I'm listening to my neighbor's kids right now - 4
under the age of 6 - "resolving their issues." It always ends up with
someone hurt or crying until the parents step in to stop it. And
sometimes, they just ignore them. Not good.)
My only friend who advocated the "let them work it out" scenario
seemed to just let it be when her daughter knocked mine to the ground
or otherwise do something that seemed mean. Her daughter didn't know
how else to act because her mother wasn't helping her to find other
ways to handle her frustration. It persisted as they got older; we
don't see much of them anymore.
In fact, older kids need help sometimes in resolving their issues.
Learning how to deal with situations is life-long learning. And some
kids need help more than others.
I think it's a very mainstream way of looking at kids' interactions.
It doesn't jive well with unschooling.
Robin B.
Sandra Dodd
> In my way home I was thinking about my friends suggestion to justlet the
> kids resolve the issue by themselves... Does any one have anycomments about
> it?It didn't seem there was a problem before the mom started to manage
potential future problems.
Usually it's good to step in before there's any physical altercation
or crying, but in the story brought to the list, the crying was caused
by the mom, and the physical altercation (someone having a toy
forcibly removed from her grasp) was the mom's doing too.
I don't think children should "resolve issues" themselves, nor should
parents do it for them, but facilitate! Make things peaceful and happy.
Little children have no idea what you're talking about about "turns"
and times. Don't expect them to understand more than they can
understand.
Here are some ideas for other times:
http://sandradodd.com/toddlers
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Robin Bentley
>Since I'm guessing his mother was not there, you could have engaged
> Today we were at a friends house and my friends son soon started
> playing
> with a big toy. My daughter got curious with the toy and went to the
> front
> of the toy and started playing with it... the boy step aside and
> kept only
> watching her... He does not really speak. He is 2 years old. So he
> was sad
> but did not do anything.
him with something else. Or you could have found another, more
enticing toy for your daughter.
> I waited for my daughter to play a little bit withI think it helps to not impose arbitrary limits (we just talked about
> the toy then I told her that she had her turn and that now was the
> boy's
> turn.
this in a chat today). Was there a moment when you became
uncomfortable and decided "now she must give this up"? What if she'd
played until she was done?
> She started crying and saying no, no... and would hold a part of theTurn taking is something ingrained from school, our parents, other
> big toy very tight. I said I could see she really wanted to play and
> that
> she would after the boy had his turn. I asked her to give the boy
> his turn.
people. Turns are great if everyone gets to have something for the
time they need it.
>I'd be angry, too, if I couldn't understand why my fingers were being
> She said no, no, no...Of course, she got really angry. Then I
> decided to
> open her fingers so I could give the toy to the boy. I gave the toy
> to the
> boy. Then the boy's mother came and said that I should not
> interfere...to
> let the kids resolve the issue by themselves. My daughter was crying
> so I
> held her and told her I knew it was hard to share and that I could
> see she
> was really mad ... I tried to validate all her feelings. She started
> rubbing
> her eyes and asked to take her nap... so I went upstairs and stayed
> with her
> until she fell asleep.
pried off something I was really enjoying. I'd be mad at *you* for
putting another child's needs (where *was* his mother up until then?)
ahead of my own. Validating my feelings when you were the one who
caused me to feel that way is small comfort when I'm 2 1/2.
Making something else more appealing might have worked if you had
decided it was the other child's turn. There has to be something in it
for your daughter to want to release the toy, and mom explaining that
taking turns is what she ought to do just doesn't cut it!
I say all of this from experience. I used to do exactly the same thing
when my daughter was little. I tried to make her look generous when
she had no concept of it. I could have approached it in a much more
fun way. It's taken me awhile to figure it out that everything doesn't
have to approached so seriously. Better for all involved to lighten
things up somehow. :-D
Robin B.
>
Robin Bentley
Cinira, it probably would have helped if I hadn't put this all in a
"you" context! I was thinking of myself when I was writing (and kind
of scolding myself for what I had done <g>). It was meant to be
generalized, not aimed at you specifically. It's really for anyone
(including me).
Robin B.
"you" context! I was thinking of myself when I was writing (and kind
of scolding myself for what I had done <g>). It was meant to be
generalized, not aimed at you specifically. It's really for anyone
(including me).
Robin B.
Tina Boster
==== In my way home I was thinking about my friends suggestion to just let
the kids resolve the issue by themselves... Does any one have any comments
about it? I am all ears. ====
In that situation, I would have sat back and observed the situation. If I
am watching two children, and one child relinquishes a toy to another who
joined in playing with the toy, I do not interfere, regardless of which of
the children in the situation is mine.
As you described it, the boy gave up the toy by choice, and your daughter
did not take the toy by force. There was no reason for you to interfere.
The real problem in this situation is not between two children, but rather
than between you and your daughter. You took a toy away from her, and you
owe her a big apology. No matter what your reasoning was, you were modeling
some very bad behavior. Children notice your actions more than your words,
especially toddlers. You showed your daughter that if you are bigger you
can take a toy away from someone even if she is not done playing with it.
As to whether you should let children resolve conflict on their own - that
depends. It always depends on the situation and the children. Sometimes
kids can come up with a solution that works for both of them that we may
never have thought of. Sometimes both children think the solution is fair,
even if the adults don't. Sometimes when adults interfere they cause more
problems. Sometimes, however, a child is not able to navigate a conflict on
his own and needs help. It is almost always best to observe first before
becoming involved in the situation because if you interfere when you are not
needed, you may make it worse.
As for sharing: that is always a choice in our family. No one is ever
forced to share. Forced sharing builds resentment. Sharing should be a
joyful experience which is surrounded by positive emotions. If it is always
a happy experience, it will be more likely to occur with increasing
frequency.
Tina
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
the kids resolve the issue by themselves... Does any one have any comments
about it? I am all ears. ====
In that situation, I would have sat back and observed the situation. If I
am watching two children, and one child relinquishes a toy to another who
joined in playing with the toy, I do not interfere, regardless of which of
the children in the situation is mine.
As you described it, the boy gave up the toy by choice, and your daughter
did not take the toy by force. There was no reason for you to interfere.
The real problem in this situation is not between two children, but rather
than between you and your daughter. You took a toy away from her, and you
owe her a big apology. No matter what your reasoning was, you were modeling
some very bad behavior. Children notice your actions more than your words,
especially toddlers. You showed your daughter that if you are bigger you
can take a toy away from someone even if she is not done playing with it.
As to whether you should let children resolve conflict on their own - that
depends. It always depends on the situation and the children. Sometimes
kids can come up with a solution that works for both of them that we may
never have thought of. Sometimes both children think the solution is fair,
even if the adults don't. Sometimes when adults interfere they cause more
problems. Sometimes, however, a child is not able to navigate a conflict on
his own and needs help. It is almost always best to observe first before
becoming involved in the situation because if you interfere when you are not
needed, you may make it worse.
As for sharing: that is always a choice in our family. No one is ever
forced to share. Forced sharing builds resentment. Sharing should be a
joyful experience which is surrounded by positive emotions. If it is always
a happy experience, it will be more likely to occur with increasing
frequency.
Tina
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
The easiest way I found for young children to share is for them to
play with substances or public equipment rather than with toys.
Playing with sand or water or something where they can all have
plastic cups and extra plastic cups, or going to a public playground,
or a place where they can play on ramps or something is nice. Several
helium balloons inside a house is nice--not one apiece, and not
outside. Long strings.
Sandra
play with substances or public equipment rather than with toys.
Playing with sand or water or something where they can all have
plastic cups and extra plastic cups, or going to a public playground,
or a place where they can play on ramps or something is nice. Several
helium balloons inside a house is nice--not one apiece, and not
outside. Long strings.
Sandra
Three Mommies
>How do you know the boy was sad? Sometimes I watch my guys interact and have
> My daughter got curious with the toy and went to the front of the toy and
> started playing with it... the boy step aside and kept only watching her...
> He does not really speak. He is 2 years old. So he was sad but did not do
> anything
to stop myself from assuming what one of them feels. Ryan (age 6) is often
perfectly happy to turn his beloved DS over to Ethan (age 9) and let Ethan
play. Sometimes I feel that Ethan is "taking advantage" of Ryan by playing
with Ryan's DS game, but in Ryan's view, Ethan is helping him get to a
certain place in the game or advancing the game in some other way. The boy
might just have been curious about what your daughter was doing and how she
was going to play with the toy. I find that sometimes by stepping in or even
asking about what they are doing I am getting in the way of their
interactions and their relationship with each other. If there isn't a
physical altercation, I try to hang back and see what they make of things
themselves.
Peace,
Jean Elizabeth
http://3mommies.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Marina DeLuca-Howard
Hi Cinira,
Would you share your car with me? I'll bring it back next Thursday.
Oh...and can I borrow a hundred bucks ;)
Think about your responses to that and you might see your toddlers position
on sharing with some clarity.
I think with property disputes it is good to be a mediator. Kids,
especially babes in the woods aren't developmentally able to think of others
and accidents will happen.
Marina
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Would you share your car with me? I'll bring it back next Thursday.
Oh...and can I borrow a hundred bucks ;)
Think about your responses to that and you might see your toddlers position
on sharing with some clarity.
I think with property disputes it is good to be a mediator. Kids,
especially babes in the woods aren't developmentally able to think of others
and accidents will happen.
Marina
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Meryl
Until recently my 2.5 year old son would share anything. We never told him he had to, he just did it on his own.
He started getting into Thomas The Tank Engine, it's his first passion.
He loves his trains and rarely chooses to share them, even with my husband and I.
Logan wants to take them with him everywhere. There have been times when he is at the playground playing with his trains and will not let any other kid touch them.
He will tell me he doesn't want to share. I tell him that he does not have to.
I know that may not make me the most popular mom on the block, but Logan looks to me or his dad to have his back...and we do.
Today was interesting. He had some new Sesame Street cars. A cute little girl sat next to Logan and watched him play. She did not ask for a car to play with, but Logan got a bit worried and told me he did not want to share. The little girl (4 years old) was quite genius, she understood men better than many adult women do.
Logan started making silly noises and faces. The girl laughed at everything he did.
It didn't take long for him to share one of his cars with her after that.
They played together for the next hour. Logan even let her little brother play with one of his cars.
My husband and I let them work it out, and it was pretty darned cute.
If things had gotten aggresive in any way we were there to mediate.
Meryl
He started getting into Thomas The Tank Engine, it's his first passion.
He loves his trains and rarely chooses to share them, even with my husband and I.
Logan wants to take them with him everywhere. There have been times when he is at the playground playing with his trains and will not let any other kid touch them.
He will tell me he doesn't want to share. I tell him that he does not have to.
I know that may not make me the most popular mom on the block, but Logan looks to me or his dad to have his back...and we do.
Today was interesting. He had some new Sesame Street cars. A cute little girl sat next to Logan and watched him play. She did not ask for a car to play with, but Logan got a bit worried and told me he did not want to share. The little girl (4 years old) was quite genius, she understood men better than many adult women do.
Logan started making silly noises and faces. The girl laughed at everything he did.
It didn't take long for him to share one of his cars with her after that.
They played together for the next hour. Logan even let her little brother play with one of his cars.
My husband and I let them work it out, and it was pretty darned cute.
If things had gotten aggresive in any way we were there to mediate.
Meryl
--- In [email protected], Three Mommies <3mommies@...> wrote:
>
> >
> > My daughter got curious with the toy and went to the front of the toy and
> > started playing with it... the boy step aside and kept only watching her...
> > He does not really speak. He is 2 years old. So he was sad but did not do
> > anything
>
>
> How do you know the boy was sad? Sometimes I watch my guys interact and have
> to stop myself from assuming what one of them feels. Ryan (age 6) is often
> perfectly happy to turn his beloved DS over to Ethan (age 9) and let Ethan
> play. Sometimes I feel that Ethan is "taking advantage" of Ryan by playing
> with Ryan's DS game, but in Ryan's view, Ethan is helping him get to a
> certain place in the game or advancing the game in some other way. The boy
> might just have been curious about what your daughter was doing and how she
> was going to play with the toy. I find that sometimes by stepping in or even
> asking about what they are doing I am getting in the way of their
> interactions and their relationship with each other. If there isn't a
> physical altercation, I try to hang back and see what they make of things
> themselves.
>
> Peace,
> Jean Elizabeth
>
> http://3mommies.blogspot.com
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Sandra Dodd
-=-Would you share your car with me? I'll bring it back next Thursday.
Oh...and can I borrow a hundred bucks ;)-=-
Could your husband take me to dinner? Don't be selfish; we all have
to share!
If I offer to let someone take my guitar home for a while that's my
choice. If someone asked if they could take my guitar home, they'd
better be my REALLY good friend.
Yet we expect our children who are too little to know what's going on
to hand things over to other people who might likely slobber and scream.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Oh...and can I borrow a hundred bucks ;)-=-
Could your husband take me to dinner? Don't be selfish; we all have
to share!
If I offer to let someone take my guitar home for a while that's my
choice. If someone asked if they could take my guitar home, they'd
better be my REALLY good friend.
Yet we expect our children who are too little to know what's going on
to hand things over to other people who might likely slobber and scream.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pam Sorooshian
On 7/10/2009 11:41 AM, Robin Bentley wrote:
their issues, you'd better start helping when they're young.
So many parents of teens complain that their kids don't talk to them,
don't confide in them, and push any offered help aside. Wonder why?
-pam
> In fact, older kids need help sometimes in resolving their issues.In fact, if you WANT your older kids to come to you for help resolving
> Learning how to deal with situations is life-long learning.
their issues, you'd better start helping when they're young.
So many parents of teens complain that their kids don't talk to them,
don't confide in them, and push any offered help aside. Wonder why?
-pam
Pam Sorooshian
On 7/9/2009 10:51 PM, Cinira Longuinho wrote:
daughter showed interest in the boy's toy, your own thinking should have
jumped to how to help them with potential "sharing" problems. The boy
was watching and you thought he was sad. I'm wondering if that was even
true.....there are kids who will watch for quite a long time when
another kid is present - you might have seriously jumped the gun by
assuming he was even wanting to take over. Also, you said your daughter
started playing with "the front of the toy?" So it was something big
enough that maybe they both could have sort of played with parts of it?
The boy might have stepped back in and played happily with her, once he
was comfortable after observing for a while.
Anyway - I'd have been making some contingency plans in the back of my
mind starting the minute my daughter took over a toy from another child.
I'd have been looking around for something else to distract one of them
with, first. I would have gently and inobtrusively offered something
else to the boy, to see if he'd rather turn that toy over to the
"intruder girl" /instead of sharing or confronting her. If the boy
looked like he was going to demand his toy back, I'd be immediately
thinking of something I could do to entice my child away before the boy
made a move.
Or - if there was a way for them both to play happily with it, I'd have
invited the boy in and helped that process along - probably by starting
out playing with it myself and then letting him take over.
-pam
/
> Today we were at a friends house and my friends son soon started playingYou should starting practicing "thinking ahead." The minute your
> with a big toy. My daughter got curious with the toy and went to the front
> of the toy and started playing with it... the boy step aside and kept only
> watching her..
daughter showed interest in the boy's toy, your own thinking should have
jumped to how to help them with potential "sharing" problems. The boy
was watching and you thought he was sad. I'm wondering if that was even
true.....there are kids who will watch for quite a long time when
another kid is present - you might have seriously jumped the gun by
assuming he was even wanting to take over. Also, you said your daughter
started playing with "the front of the toy?" So it was something big
enough that maybe they both could have sort of played with parts of it?
The boy might have stepped back in and played happily with her, once he
was comfortable after observing for a while.
Anyway - I'd have been making some contingency plans in the back of my
mind starting the minute my daughter took over a toy from another child.
I'd have been looking around for something else to distract one of them
with, first. I would have gently and inobtrusively offered something
else to the boy, to see if he'd rather turn that toy over to the
"intruder girl" /instead of sharing or confronting her. If the boy
looked like he was going to demand his toy back, I'd be immediately
thinking of something I could do to entice my child away before the boy
made a move.
Or - if there was a way for them both to play happily with it, I'd have
invited the boy in and helped that process along - probably by starting
out playing with it myself and then letting him take over.
-pam
/
Cinira Longuinho
Hello,
I read all the emails. I thank you for all the feedback. After reading it,
it is more clear to me that I may have interfered too early. Observing their
interaction would have been more appropriate.
In the past I did not interfere at all... I waited to see how the children
involved would solve the situation. But recently when my daughter meets
other friends... They are all happy together then suddenly they start
arguing about a toy or whatever the thing is... then it escalates... they
start to scream, each child pulling the toy in one direction, crying,
getting really, really nervous. They start to push, grab hair, or even hit
each other.... It is crazy! It is really quick... when I or the other
parent see it we go there to make them stop.... I tell you the first time
this happened my heart was beating so fast... I got really nervous as well.
We know that there are episodes my daughter started and there are other
situations that the other girl started...
Well, my question now is how does a child learn about sharing?
Thanks.
C.
I read all the emails. I thank you for all the feedback. After reading it,
it is more clear to me that I may have interfered too early. Observing their
interaction would have been more appropriate.
In the past I did not interfere at all... I waited to see how the children
involved would solve the situation. But recently when my daughter meets
other friends... They are all happy together then suddenly they start
arguing about a toy or whatever the thing is... then it escalates... they
start to scream, each child pulling the toy in one direction, crying,
getting really, really nervous. They start to push, grab hair, or even hit
each other.... It is crazy! It is really quick... when I or the other
parent see it we go there to make them stop.... I tell you the first time
this happened my heart was beating so fast... I got really nervous as well.
We know that there are episodes my daughter started and there are other
situations that the other girl started...
Well, my question now is how does a child learn about sharing?
Thanks.
C.
On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 7:22 PM, Meryl <mranzer@...> wrote:
>
>
> Until recently my 2.5 year old son would share anything. We never told him
> he had to, he just did it on his own.
>
> He started getting into Thomas The Tank Engine, it's his first passion.
> He loves his trains and rarely chooses to share them, even with my husband
> and I.
> Logan wants to take them with him everywhere. There have been times when he
> is at the playground playing with his trains and will not let any other kid
> touch them.
> He will tell me he doesn't want to share. I tell him that he does not have
> to.
> I know that may not make me the most popular mom on the block, but Logan
> looks to me or his dad to have his back...and we do.
>
> Today was interesting. He had some new Sesame Street cars. A cute little
> girl sat next to Logan and watched him play. She did not ask for a car to
> play with, but Logan got a bit worried and told me he did not want to share.
> The little girl (4 years old) was quite genius, she understood men better
> than many adult women do.
> Logan started making silly noises and faces. The girl laughed at everything
> he did.
> It didn't take long for him to share one of his cars with her after that.
> They played together for the next hour. Logan even let her little brother
> play with one of his cars.
>
> My husband and I let them work it out, and it was pretty darned cute.
> If things had gotten aggresive in any way we were there to mediate.
>
> Meryl
>
>
> --- In [email protected] <AlwaysLearning%40yahoogroups.com>,
> Three Mommies <3mommies@...> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > My daughter got curious with the toy and went to the front of the toy
> and
> > > started playing with it... the boy step aside and kept only watching
> her...
> > > He does not really speak. He is 2 years old. So he was sad but did not
> do
> > > anything
> >
> >
> > How do you know the boy was sad? Sometimes I watch my guys interact and
> have
> > to stop myself from assuming what one of them feels. Ryan (age 6) is
> often
> > perfectly happy to turn his beloved DS over to Ethan (age 9) and let
> Ethan
> > play. Sometimes I feel that Ethan is "taking advantage" of Ryan by
> playing
> > with Ryan's DS game, but in Ryan's view, Ethan is helping him get to a
> > certain place in the game or advancing the game in some other way. The
> boy
> > might just have been curious about what your daughter was doing and how
> she
> > was going to play with the toy. I find that sometimes by stepping in or
> even
> > asking about what they are doing I am getting in the way of their
> > interactions and their relationship with each other. If there isn't a
> > physical altercation, I try to hang back and see what they make of things
> > themselves.
> >
> > Peace,
> > Jean Elizabeth
> >
> > http://3mommies.blogspot.com
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Jul 11, 2009, at 2:58 AM, Cinira Longuinho wrote:
By being generous with what you have. By helping her feel she has
"enough". The reason to hold onto something is because you fear you
won't get more. It's far easier to share when you feel you have more
than enough. It's a rare child who won't share something that's
essentially endless like water or paper ;-) It's only when there's a
feel of rationing that people feel they need to hold onto what they
have.
One thing I did was reassure my daughter (when we were at a community
place where the toys belonged to the place) was that the other child
wouldn't take the toy home, it would be there waiting for her when
the child was done. I think she had a fear that if she didn't seize
the opportunity to play with it when someone else had it that she'd
not get to. After positive experiences she easily grasped that that
wasn't so.
You could have pointed out that it looks like the little boy wants
to play with the toy too. Just as social information for her, not as
code for her needing to give the toy up. Point her in the direction
of being more aware of others, but accept that at 2 she's not really
ready to do it on her own and may not totally get it.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Well, my question now is how does a child learn about sharing?Little by little in lots of different ways. By you sharing with her.
By being generous with what you have. By helping her feel she has
"enough". The reason to hold onto something is because you fear you
won't get more. It's far easier to share when you feel you have more
than enough. It's a rare child who won't share something that's
essentially endless like water or paper ;-) It's only when there's a
feel of rationing that people feel they need to hold onto what they
have.
One thing I did was reassure my daughter (when we were at a community
place where the toys belonged to the place) was that the other child
wouldn't take the toy home, it would be there waiting for her when
the child was done. I think she had a fear that if she didn't seize
the opportunity to play with it when someone else had it that she'd
not get to. After positive experiences she easily grasped that that
wasn't so.
You could have pointed out that it looks like the little boy wants
to play with the toy too. Just as social information for her, not as
code for her needing to give the toy up. Point her in the direction
of being more aware of others, but accept that at 2 she's not really
ready to do it on her own and may not totally get it.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-
Well, my question now is how does a child learn about sharing?-=-
Gradually, with maturity and modelling.
Share things with her in natural and generous ways. Don't demand that
she share with you. If it's not voluntary, it's not sharing.
If my neighbor comes and threatens me and says I HAVE to give her some
of my property and lend her my lawn mower, that's not sharing; that's
bullying and appropriation.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Well, my question now is how does a child learn about sharing?-=-
Gradually, with maturity and modelling.
Share things with her in natural and generous ways. Don't demand that
she share with you. If it's not voluntary, it's not sharing.
If my neighbor comes and threatens me and says I HAVE to give her some
of my property and lend her my lawn mower, that's not sharing; that's
bullying and appropriation.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pam Sorooshian
On 7/10/2009 11:58 PM, Cinira Longuinho wrote:
Seriously.
A HUGE part of it is simply brain development - at 2 and 3 years old,
they barely even grasp that other people are individual, separate
people, much less imagine that they are people who have wants and needs
like their own. They are, appropriately, pretty much entirely focused on
getting their own needs and wants met. Empathy will develop, over time,
but cannot be forced. It will develop as three things happen: 1 - growth
and development in the parts of the brain needed for recognizing other
people's feelings and caring about them and 2 - other people treating
them with generosity and sharing with them and 3 - parents gently
supporting them as they begin to experience empathy and the urge to share.
-pam
> Well, my question now is how does a child learn about sharing?They grow up.
>
Seriously.
A HUGE part of it is simply brain development - at 2 and 3 years old,
they barely even grasp that other people are individual, separate
people, much less imagine that they are people who have wants and needs
like their own. They are, appropriately, pretty much entirely focused on
getting their own needs and wants met. Empathy will develop, over time,
but cannot be forced. It will develop as three things happen: 1 - growth
and development in the parts of the brain needed for recognizing other
people's feelings and caring about them and 2 - other people treating
them with generosity and sharing with them and 3 - parents gently
supporting them as they begin to experience empathy and the urge to share.
-pam
Pam Sorooshian
On 7/11/2009 4:30 AM, Joyce Fetteroll wrote:
kid that things have "permanence" until their brain has developed the
ability to grasp the concept. There are some fun little Piagetan
experiments you can do with little children that help parents understand
that you cannot force a child to understand something that their brain
isn't capable of understanding.
For example, if your child is under 13 to 15 months old, they probably
don't recognize that they are looking at themselves when they look in a
mirror. Try this - use some paint or lipstick or something and put a
bright red dot on their nose. Have them look in a mirror right before
you do it and then right after. When they are younger, they'll notice
the red nose and point to the nose in the mirror and laugh. Do this once
a month or so - suddenly, one time, they'll reach toward their OWN nose
(not the one in the mirror) and indicate that they realize that red nose
is on themselves - not just a face in the mirror. It is VERY obvious
that a change in the brain has taken place.
The same kind of development happens with object permanence. It is why
peek-a-boo is fun for children. There is an age at which things that are
out of sight are considered gone and an age where they know that
something covered up is still there. As they are developing into the
latter stage, they take delight in discovering, over and over, that
something can still be there when they can't see it.
-pam
> One thing I did was reassure my daughter (when we were at a communityThis is also a brain development stage, though. You cannot persuade a
> place where the toys belonged to the place) was that the other child
> wouldn't take the toy home, it would be there waiting for her when
> the child was done. I think she had a fear that if she didn't seize
> the opportunity to play with it when someone else had it that she'd
> not get to. After positive experiences she easily grasped that that
> wasn't so.
>
kid that things have "permanence" until their brain has developed the
ability to grasp the concept. There are some fun little Piagetan
experiments you can do with little children that help parents understand
that you cannot force a child to understand something that their brain
isn't capable of understanding.
For example, if your child is under 13 to 15 months old, they probably
don't recognize that they are looking at themselves when they look in a
mirror. Try this - use some paint or lipstick or something and put a
bright red dot on their nose. Have them look in a mirror right before
you do it and then right after. When they are younger, they'll notice
the red nose and point to the nose in the mirror and laugh. Do this once
a month or so - suddenly, one time, they'll reach toward their OWN nose
(not the one in the mirror) and indicate that they realize that red nose
is on themselves - not just a face in the mirror. It is VERY obvious
that a change in the brain has taken place.
The same kind of development happens with object permanence. It is why
peek-a-boo is fun for children. There is an age at which things that are
out of sight are considered gone and an age where they know that
something covered up is still there. As they are developing into the
latter stage, they take delight in discovering, over and over, that
something can still be there when they can't see it.
-pam
Marina DeLuca-Howard
>>>If I offer to let someone take my guitar home for a while that's myI noticed my children readily shared most of the time with friends, and
>>>choice. If someone asked if they could take my guitar home, they'd
>>>better be my REALLY good friend.
almost always with me, whether I asked them to share with me or not!
>>>> Well, my question now is how does a child learn about sharing?I have always shared with my kids, and so they reciprocate. But even if
>>>Little by little in lots of different ways. By you sharing with her.
>>>By being generous with what you have. By helping her feel she has
>>>"enough". The reason to hold onto something is because you fear you
>>>won't get more. It's far easier to share when you feel you have more
>>>than enough. It's a rare child who won't share something that's
>>>essentially endless like water or paper ;-) It's only when there's a
>>>feel of rationing that people feel they need to hold onto what they
>>>have
they have enough children need not share with everyone all the time. It is
much easier to share with people whom you have a relationship with, so I
think most children might be willing to give their friend a turn or a piece
more often than a stranger :-)
Many parents ask their children to sacrifice toys, or treats to strangers.
While that makes them "the popular parent" with the neighbours, I would
guess the child might feel resentful and angry at being bullied into making
sacrifices. Sharing is one instance where adults demand much more of
children than of themselves! It really demonstrates how disempowered
children are in our world!
Also, note that if your child surrenders something to someone while in tears
or has a meltdown that is not sharing. If someone asks me at gunpoint to
share my wallet, I will hand it over, but I would not call it sharing. I
would call it theft! I would never want to invite the thief to dinner, nor
would I be willing to shake hands and wish him well.
Marina
--
Life is always happening
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Marina DeLuca-Howard
Just to add...if the nice policeman who I reported the theft to told me to
have some sympathy for the poor guy because he is an addict or poor I would
be pretty mad.
So when my kids complained about someone taking something from them I
treated this seriously and made sure everyone understood sharing is not
sharing unless it is consensual! Mainstream parents almost always will roll
their eyes and say "kids gotta share, otherwise how are they going to do in
school". Just another reason not to go!
Marina
--
Life is always happening
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
have some sympathy for the poor guy because he is an addict or poor I would
be pretty mad.
So when my kids complained about someone taking something from them I
treated this seriously and made sure everyone understood sharing is not
sharing unless it is consensual! Mainstream parents almost always will roll
their eyes and say "kids gotta share, otherwise how are they going to do in
school". Just another reason not to go!
Marina
--
Life is always happening
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Cinira Longuinho
Hi, now you guys got me thinking� I spend some hours with my husband today
discussing the topic and jotting your words on the whiteboard, and we came
up with the summary below. Please add/improve this list if you feel it is
applicable, which you are already doing!
Topic: Sharing
Every child has needs and they act in accordance to them. The child is
�always learning� how to live in society, and to achieve this they need the
help from adults, in many different ways.
The child�s needs
1. to play with a toy
2. to play with a toy in her own way
3. attention
4. not to be bothered
5. to own things (really???)
Interventions
*Negative behavior � Adult led*
1. turns - now it�s her turn, then it�s your turn, so have patience and wait
2. take the toy out � pry her hands out of the toy
3. threat � if you don�t share the toy you will not play with it anymore
4. protect the other child�s desire to play with the toy
*Negative behavior � Child led*
5. the other child asks � I wanna play with this toy�
6. the other child fights for the toy
7. the other child asks another adult for help getting the toy back
8. the other child shows sadness for not having the toy
*Positive behavior � Adult led - Reactive*
9. redirect � why don�t you play with this other toy?
*Positive behavior � Adult led � Pro-active*
10. to have enough � child has many toys for long time and has no need to
hold to them
11. to make her have the feeling that she has enough
12. to create the environment where there is enough (many balloons in the
room)
13. show the toys belong to the �place� (the community center) and everyone
uses them
14. increase awareness there are others and they have needs that must be
respected (the little boy wants to play too)
15. accept the child may not have in the brain the concept of sharing or
empathy
16 .setting the example, share with her
I guess I am excited to shift towards the �positive behavior, adult led,
pro-active� category. However, I don�t see a lot of options on how to deal
creatively when the issue is happening (reactive). Also, it came up to me
that my daughter has now a strong sense of ownership, she is saying more the
words �it is mine� or �it�s my turn�. Maybe this is a reflection of me
telling her �this toy is not yours� when she grabs the toy from the other
child� lol.
C.
discussing the topic and jotting your words on the whiteboard, and we came
up with the summary below. Please add/improve this list if you feel it is
applicable, which you are already doing!
Topic: Sharing
Every child has needs and they act in accordance to them. The child is
�always learning� how to live in society, and to achieve this they need the
help from adults, in many different ways.
The child�s needs
1. to play with a toy
2. to play with a toy in her own way
3. attention
4. not to be bothered
5. to own things (really???)
Interventions
*Negative behavior � Adult led*
1. turns - now it�s her turn, then it�s your turn, so have patience and wait
2. take the toy out � pry her hands out of the toy
3. threat � if you don�t share the toy you will not play with it anymore
4. protect the other child�s desire to play with the toy
*Negative behavior � Child led*
5. the other child asks � I wanna play with this toy�
6. the other child fights for the toy
7. the other child asks another adult for help getting the toy back
8. the other child shows sadness for not having the toy
*Positive behavior � Adult led - Reactive*
9. redirect � why don�t you play with this other toy?
*Positive behavior � Adult led � Pro-active*
10. to have enough � child has many toys for long time and has no need to
hold to them
11. to make her have the feeling that she has enough
12. to create the environment where there is enough (many balloons in the
room)
13. show the toys belong to the �place� (the community center) and everyone
uses them
14. increase awareness there are others and they have needs that must be
respected (the little boy wants to play too)
15. accept the child may not have in the brain the concept of sharing or
empathy
16 .setting the example, share with her
I guess I am excited to shift towards the �positive behavior, adult led,
pro-active� category. However, I don�t see a lot of options on how to deal
creatively when the issue is happening (reactive). Also, it came up to me
that my daughter has now a strong sense of ownership, she is saying more the
words �it is mine� or �it�s my turn�. Maybe this is a reflection of me
telling her �this toy is not yours� when she grabs the toy from the other
child� lol.
C.
On Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 12:47 PM, Pam Sorooshian <pamsoroosh@...> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> On 7/11/2009 4:30 AM, Joyce Fetteroll wrote:
> > One thing I did was reassure my daughter (when we were at a community
> > place where the toys belonged to the place) was that the other child
> > wouldn't take the toy home, it would be there waiting for her when
> > the child was done. I think she had a fear that if she didn't seize
> > the opportunity to play with it when someone else had it that she'd
> > not get to. After positive experiences she easily grasped that that
> > wasn't so.
> >
>
> This is also a brain development stage, though. You cannot persuade a
> kid that things have "permanence" until their brain has developed the
> ability to grasp the concept. There are some fun little Piagetan
> experiments you can do with little children that help parents understand
> that you cannot force a child to understand something that their brain
> isn't capable of understanding.
>
> For example, if your child is under 13 to 15 months old, they probably
> don't recognize that they are looking at themselves when they look in a
> mirror. Try this - use some paint or lipstick or something and put a
> bright red dot on their nose. Have them look in a mirror right before
> you do it and then right after. When they are younger, they'll notice
> the red nose and point to the nose in the mirror and laugh. Do this once
> a month or so - suddenly, one time, they'll reach toward their OWN nose
> (not the one in the mirror) and indicate that they realize that red nose
> is on themselves - not just a face in the mirror. It is VERY obvious
> that a change in the brain has taken place.
>
> The same kind of development happens with object permanence. It is why
> peek-a-boo is fun for children. There is an age at which things that are
> out of sight are considered gone and an age where they know that
> something covered up is still there. As they are developing into the
> latter stage, they take delight in discovering, over and over, that
> something can still be there when they can't see it.
>
> -pam
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=- Sharing is one instance where adults demand much more of
children than of themselves! It really demonstrates how disempowered
children are in our world!-=-
Bigtime.
My mom would hardly share her own stuff with me. If I borrowed
anything of hers she sighed and moaned and acted totally put out.
When my kids want to use something of mine I think it's cool! A few
things have been lost over 20 years, but not many, and most were
eventually found somewhere in the house or the car. Not a big deal.
When I have candy they can have as much as they want. When my mom had
candy, MAYBE one little piece a day.
So a parent who won't share can be known to punish a child for not
sharing.
It's doofy.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
children than of themselves! It really demonstrates how disempowered
children are in our world!-=-
Bigtime.
My mom would hardly share her own stuff with me. If I borrowed
anything of hers she sighed and moaned and acted totally put out.
When my kids want to use something of mine I think it's cool! A few
things have been lost over 20 years, but not many, and most were
eventually found somewhere in the house or the car. Not a big deal.
When I have candy they can have as much as they want. When my mom had
candy, MAYBE one little piece a day.
So a parent who won't share can be known to punish a child for not
sharing.
It's doofy.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Brenda Ferns
Hi Marina your post was right on about children sharing with strangers. I think a lot of parents expect children to share with other children that they barely know and I think children are protective over their things and do not know the other child well enough to know if they are going treat their toy nicely. I know with my girls when I come across the sharing situation I ask them if they have a toy that they wouldn't mind playing with and if they do can they go and get it for them. I know with myself I am weary when someone new comes into my house and touches things that I are valuable to me because I really do not know the person. I try to prepare my children when someone new is coming over and ask them if they want to put up the things that they do not want others to play with.
And I agree if it is done with tears it is not sharing. If the children are young then maybe have a variety of toys out and put up the one that you know your child values over the other toys.
Brenda
Proud momma of 3 amazing girls. DD 6, DD 4, DD 22 Months.
http://adventerousfernsfamily.blogspot.com/
________________________________
From: Marina DeLuca-Howard <delucahoward@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 10:29:03 AM
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Re: Toddlers and Sharing- any comments?
almost always with me, whether I asked them to share with me or not!
they have enough children need not share with everyone all the time. It is
much easier to share with people whom you have a relationship with, so I
think most children might be willing to give their friend a turn or a piece
more often than a stranger :-)
Many parents ask their children to sacrifice toys, or treats to strangers.
While that makes them "the popular parent" with the neighbours, I would
guess the child might feel resentful and angry at being bullied into making
sacrifices. Sharing is one instance where adults demand much more of
children than of themselves! It really demonstrates how disempowered
children are in our world!
Also, note that if your child surrenders something to someone while in tears
or has a meltdown that is not sharing. If someone asks me at gunpoint to
share my wallet, I will hand it over, but I would not call it sharing. I
would call it theft! I would never want to invite the thief to dinner, nor
would I be willing to shake hands and wish him well.
Marina
--
Life is always happening
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
And I agree if it is done with tears it is not sharing. If the children are young then maybe have a variety of toys out and put up the one that you know your child values over the other toys.
Brenda
Proud momma of 3 amazing girls. DD 6, DD 4, DD 22 Months.
http://adventerousfernsfamily.blogspot.com/
________________________________
From: Marina DeLuca-Howard <delucahoward@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 10:29:03 AM
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Re: Toddlers and Sharing- any comments?
>>>If I offer to let someone take my guitar home for a while that's myI noticed my children readily shared most of the time with friends, and
>>>choice. If someone asked if they could take my guitar home, they'd
>>>better be my REALLY good friend.
almost always with me, whether I asked them to share with me or not!
>>>> Well, my question now is how does a child learn about sharing?I have always shared with my kids, and so they reciprocate. But even if
>>>Little by little in lots of different ways. By you sharing with her.
>>>By being generous with what you have. By helping her feel she has
>>>"enough". The reason to hold onto something is because you fear you
>>>won't get more. It's far easier to share when you feel you have more
>>>than enough. It's a rare child who won't share something that's
>>>essentially endless like water or paper ;-) It's only when there's a
>>>feel of rationing that people feel they need to hold onto what they
>>>have
they have enough children need not share with everyone all the time. It is
much easier to share with people whom you have a relationship with, so I
think most children might be willing to give their friend a turn or a piece
more often than a stranger :-)
Many parents ask their children to sacrifice toys, or treats to strangers.
While that makes them "the popular parent" with the neighbours, I would
guess the child might feel resentful and angry at being bullied into making
sacrifices. Sharing is one instance where adults demand much more of
children than of themselves! It really demonstrates how disempowered
children are in our world!
Also, note that if your child surrenders something to someone while in tears
or has a meltdown that is not sharing. If someone asks me at gunpoint to
share my wallet, I will hand it over, but I would not call it sharing. I
would call it theft! I would never want to invite the thief to dinner, nor
would I be willing to shake hands and wish him well.
Marina
--
Life is always happening
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=- Sharing is one instance where adults demand much more of
children than of themselves! It really demonstrates how disempowered
children are in our world!-=-
Bigtime.
My mom would hardly share her own stuff with me. If I borrowed
anything of hers she sighed and moaned and acted totally put out.
When my kids want to use something of mine I think it's cool! A few
things have been lost over 20 years, but not many, and most were
eventually found somewhere in the house or the car. Not a big deal.
When I have candy they can have as much as they want. When my mom had
candy, MAYBE one little piece a day.
So a parent who won't share can be known to punish a child for not
sharing.
It's doofy.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
children than of themselves! It really demonstrates how disempowered
children are in our world!-=-
Bigtime.
My mom would hardly share her own stuff with me. If I borrowed
anything of hers she sighed and moaned and acted totally put out.
When my kids want to use something of mine I think it's cool! A few
things have been lost over 20 years, but not many, and most were
eventually found somewhere in the house or the car. Not a big deal.
When I have candy they can have as much as they want. When my mom had
candy, MAYBE one little piece a day.
So a parent who won't share can be known to punish a child for not
sharing.
It's doofy.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Brenda Ferns
That is so true Pam I took some sociology classes and pyschology classes the last couple terms of college and learned so much about brain development that I did not know. Piaget has so much knowledge on brain development that I think that all parents should learn about. You can find a lot of stuff about Piaget online.
Proud momma of 3 amazing girls. DD 6, DD 4, DD 22 Months.
http://adventerousfernsfamily.blogspot.com/
________________________________
From: Pam Sorooshian <pamsoroosh@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 9:47:55 AM
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Re: Toddlers and Sharing- any comments?
Proud momma of 3 amazing girls. DD 6, DD 4, DD 22 Months.
http://adventerousfernsfamily.blogspot.com/
________________________________
From: Pam Sorooshian <pamsoroosh@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 9:47:55 AM
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Re: Toddlers and Sharing- any comments?
On 7/11/2009 4:30 AM, Joyce Fetteroll wrote:
> One thing I did was reassure my daughter (when we were at a community
> place where the toys belonged to the place) was that the other child
> wouldn't take the toy home, it would be there waiting for her when
> the child was done. I think she had a fear that if she didn't seize
> the opportunity to play with it when someone else had it that she'd
> not get to. After positive experiences she easily grasped that that
> wasn't so.
>
This is also a brain development stage, though. You cannot persuade a
kid that things have "permanence" until their brain has developed the
ability to grasp the concept. There are some fun little Piagetan
experiments you can do with little children that help parents understand
that you cannot force a child to understand something that their brain
isn't capable of understanding.
For example, if your child is under 13 to 15 months old, they probably
don't recognize that they are looking at themselves when they look in a
mirror. Try this - use some paint or lipstick or something and put a
bright red dot on their nose. Have them look in a mirror right before
you do it and then right after. When they are younger, they'll notice
the red nose and point to the nose in the mirror and laugh. Do this once
a month or so - suddenly, one time, they'll reach toward their OWN nose
(not the one in the mirror) and indicate that they realize that red nose
is on themselves - not just a face in the mirror. It is VERY obvious
that a change in the brain has taken place.
The same kind of development happens with object permanence. It is why
peek-a-boo is fun for children. There is an age at which things that are
out of sight are considered gone and an age where they know that
something covered up is still there. As they are developing into the
latter stage, they take delight in discovering, over and over, that
something can still be there when they can't see it.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lyla Wolfenstein
i think one of the main needs kids have is to be allowed to FEEL what they
feel without being criticized or shamed for it - even indirectly. so - kid
wants a toy another kid has, and is upset - then the parent says something
like "that's not yours" or "he's using that now" and the child feels upset
and the parent in turn gets upset THAT the child is upset. simple
reflection of feelings and understanding cna go a long way - instead of
"you have to share" or "be patient" - try "it's hard to wait" or "i'll help
you wait" or "you really want that now! shall we ask him to let you know
when he's done with it?"
i have seen many VERY young kids give something up to another kid the moment
their feelings were supported and understood. so - if a toddler i am caring
for were to be "refusing to share" a toy, i'd say - "so and so wants to play
with that - will you let him know when you are done?" and then i'd say to
"so and so" - "he's still playing with this but he will let you know when
he's done" - this almost always results in the toy under contention being
released *much* more quickly and easily than it would be if the adult
undertakes negotiations or mandates "turns" or "sharing".
Lyla
feel without being criticized or shamed for it - even indirectly. so - kid
wants a toy another kid has, and is upset - then the parent says something
like "that's not yours" or "he's using that now" and the child feels upset
and the parent in turn gets upset THAT the child is upset. simple
reflection of feelings and understanding cna go a long way - instead of
"you have to share" or "be patient" - try "it's hard to wait" or "i'll help
you wait" or "you really want that now! shall we ask him to let you know
when he's done with it?"
i have seen many VERY young kids give something up to another kid the moment
their feelings were supported and understood. so - if a toddler i am caring
for were to be "refusing to share" a toy, i'd say - "so and so wants to play
with that - will you let him know when you are done?" and then i'd say to
"so and so" - "he's still playing with this but he will let you know when
he's done" - this almost always results in the toy under contention being
released *much* more quickly and easily than it would be if the adult
undertakes negotiations or mandates "turns" or "sharing".
Lyla
Sandra Dodd
-=-Piaget has so much knowledge on brain development that I think that
all parents should learn about. You can find a lot of stuff about
Piaget on-=-
He did have; he's not living anymore.
I have a summary and have added what Pam wrote.
http://sandradodd.com/piaget
When I put a link to that page on my site announcements here:
http://aboutunschooling.blogspot.com
someone left this comment:
Regarding Piaget and unschooling: I am an unschooling mom of about 10
years getting my doctorate in Free-Choice Science Education. I have
found that the work of Vygotsky is much more in line with my
unschooling experiences than Piaget. Particularly his "zone of
proximal development", Also the work of Barbara Rogoff on "Guided
Participation". I do not believe Piaget studied much outside of his
culture and his children's styles of learning (I could be wrong and
have not read a lot from him). Rogoff really opened my eyes to
cultural differences in development and learning.
=========I responded, there:=========
Thanks! You're right, as far as I've read, about Piaget studying
mostly his own children, so genetics would've been a factor, too. If
their learning skills and intelligence were like his, and so their
development had been similar to his and he generalize that...
Still it was better than the nothing that existed before that.
On Vygotsky and Rogoff, If you have links or summaries you'd be
willing to let me share on my site, I'd be glad to have them!
===================
I haven't heard back, so if people here know of good and fairly simple
summaries of those more recent studies, putting them here could help
me get them linked up. I'm slammed-busy this month or I might look
myself. And I'm not in a big hurry. But if anyone can't think of
something to google, in a moment of calm somewhere, maybe Vykgotsky or
Rugoff. Let me know if you think they'd be helpful to unschoolers.
Sandra
all parents should learn about. You can find a lot of stuff about
Piaget on-=-
He did have; he's not living anymore.
I have a summary and have added what Pam wrote.
http://sandradodd.com/piaget
When I put a link to that page on my site announcements here:
http://aboutunschooling.blogspot.com
someone left this comment:
Regarding Piaget and unschooling: I am an unschooling mom of about 10
years getting my doctorate in Free-Choice Science Education. I have
found that the work of Vygotsky is much more in line with my
unschooling experiences than Piaget. Particularly his "zone of
proximal development", Also the work of Barbara Rogoff on "Guided
Participation". I do not believe Piaget studied much outside of his
culture and his children's styles of learning (I could be wrong and
have not read a lot from him). Rogoff really opened my eyes to
cultural differences in development and learning.
=========I responded, there:=========
Thanks! You're right, as far as I've read, about Piaget studying
mostly his own children, so genetics would've been a factor, too. If
their learning skills and intelligence were like his, and so their
development had been similar to his and he generalize that...
Still it was better than the nothing that existed before that.
On Vygotsky and Rogoff, If you have links or summaries you'd be
willing to let me share on my site, I'd be glad to have them!
===================
I haven't heard back, so if people here know of good and fairly simple
summaries of those more recent studies, putting them here could help
me get them linked up. I'm slammed-busy this month or I might look
myself. And I'm not in a big hurry. But if anyone can't think of
something to google, in a moment of calm somewhere, maybe Vykgotsky or
Rugoff. Let me know if you think they'd be helpful to unschoolers.
Sandra
Lyla Wolfenstein
>>I haven't heard back, so if people here know of good and fairly simple
summaries of those more recent studies, putting them here could help
me get them linked up. I'm slammed-busy this month or I might look
myself. And I'm not in a big hurry. But if anyone can't think of
something to google, in a moment of calm somewhere, maybe Vykgotsky or
Rugoff. Let me know if you think they'd be helpful to unschoolers.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>well, here's the wiki section on one of proximal development from his page - i'd be curious what other unschoolers here think about this - i must say i find myself bristling at the terminology, because the concept of "scaffolding" was a buzzword in the constructivist schools my kids have attended - but i am aware that might just be a reactionary thing for me, and perhaps it has utility in unschooling...:
Zone of Proximal Development
ZPD is Vygotsky's term for the range of tasks that are too difficult for the child to master alone but that can be learned with guidance and assistance of adults or more-skilled children. Lower limit of ZPD is the level of skill reached by the child working independently. The upper limit is the level of additional responsibility the child can accept with the assistance of an able instructor. The ZPD captures the child's cognitive skills that are in the process of maturing and can be accomplished only with the assistance of a more-skilled person. Scaffolding is a concept closely related to the idea of ZPD. Scaffolding is changing the level of support. Over the course of a teaching session, a more-skilled person adjusts the amount of guidance to fit the child's current performance. Dialogue is an important tool of this process in the zone of proximal development. In a dialogue unsystematic, disorganized, and spontaneous concepts of a child are met with the more systematic, logical and rational concepts of the skilled helper.[1]
Lyla
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Lyla Wolfenstein
and here's the "teaching strategies" section:
Teaching Strategies
Vygotsky's theory is divided into 6 main strategies, which can be used in the process of learning at school (Santrock, 2004). One way of teaching is by using children's zone of proximal development. Teaching should begin toward the zone's upper limit, so that the child can reach the goal with help and move to a higher level of skill and knowledge. Enough assistance should be offered. The question "What can I do to help you?" has to be asked, or simply the child's intentions and attempts should be observed, so that the child can get enough support in a smooth way. When children hesitate, they have to be offered encouragement. Encouragement should be offered in such a way that the child can practice their skill. Another teaching strategy is to use more-skilled peers as teachers. It is important to remember though that teachers can be more-skilled children. The third strategy is to monitor and encourage children's use of private speech. The fourth strategy is to effectively assess the child's ZPD. Standardized tests are not the best way to assess children's learning. Another good strategy is to place instruction in a meaningful context. This means to use less abstract presentations of material but to let students experience more real-world setting. The last strategy is to transform the classroom with Vygotskian ideas. This means that key element of instruction in this program is the zone of proximal development.[1]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Teaching Strategies
Vygotsky's theory is divided into 6 main strategies, which can be used in the process of learning at school (Santrock, 2004). One way of teaching is by using children's zone of proximal development. Teaching should begin toward the zone's upper limit, so that the child can reach the goal with help and move to a higher level of skill and knowledge. Enough assistance should be offered. The question "What can I do to help you?" has to be asked, or simply the child's intentions and attempts should be observed, so that the child can get enough support in a smooth way. When children hesitate, they have to be offered encouragement. Encouragement should be offered in such a way that the child can practice their skill. Another teaching strategy is to use more-skilled peers as teachers. It is important to remember though that teachers can be more-skilled children. The third strategy is to monitor and encourage children's use of private speech. The fourth strategy is to effectively assess the child's ZPD. Standardized tests are not the best way to assess children's learning. Another good strategy is to place instruction in a meaningful context. This means to use less abstract presentations of material but to let students experience more real-world setting. The last strategy is to transform the classroom with Vygotskian ideas. This means that key element of instruction in this program is the zone of proximal development.[1]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]