Sandra Dodd I just want to let you know that I'm leaving the group (I feel like you should know that first). Please be aware that as someone that was raised all 12 years of "school" unschooled, and am now unschooling my own children, I've never met someone as unkind, self-focused, and defensive as you. While I love all the other dear ladies on this page you do not emulate anything that I wish to imitate in my own life, and therefore no longer wish to listen to your opinions on anything. You may feel that you, "have a website" and other works full of knowledge, but you lack kindness, which is something I look for first with anyone. Please feel free to copy and paste this with one of your snarky responses. I'm sure those in the group that benefit from you wisdom will appreciate it. In the meantime, I hope that one day you realize how unkind, aggressive, and self conceited you come off as (as I'm sure you don't see it that way). Best wishes in your endeavors to promote your works, I am glad that others seem to find them helpful.I didn't respond there, just deleted it. If she wanted me to know, it could have been in a private message instead of public.original, about six comments down, when it was there
I have read this thread over and over and still fail to see how I am the one treating you and Deb Lewis and others crappily. I was merely annoyed at you for only acknowledging me by
1- saying 'if all is good then there is nothing to discuss or learn' ( which i replied to and you didnt acknowledge)
2- you saying i had bad advice
3- you misquoting me and not acknowledging me again and
-4-5- u get my point... Im sorry If I just made you sad by saying hahaha i have no need for your advice but wtf?? its all i can muster...WT F-ing F?! really... and now you mock my :) and my ♥ and question the way I treat my babes...the loves of my life... Le sigh...Good day,Sandra Dodd
I read your entire website before I subscribed to the list. If all you can do is refer people to read more material you cannot help me. If I wanted to read more about unschooling information I would buy a book. I have read everything I could get a hold of. What I need is rewording of everyday situations. I spend almost all day everyday with my children, how dare you imply that I dont spend enough time with my children. My computer sits in the mainstream of our life and we all spend a good deal of time on it
You know what it doesnt matter any more I dont need to explain myself to you. I have unsubscribed from your fucking list. I am sick of your high and mighty attitude. The controlling nature of this list is more then my unschooling mind can understand. You are closed minded and I truly hope karma smites you and yours.
That was a curse above. I got another one in November 2017. I'll put the details on another page, but the curse part was:
I hope you lose everything you’ve tried to accomplish. You only damage people’s process in the unschooling philosophy.
Years ago (January 2004), in reaction to the UnschoolingDiscussion group, a new group was formed with much fanfare (but without a decent name). UnschoolingDiscussions was created, purposely with such a similar name that they hoped they would catch people trying to join the other. On the day I put this here, UnschoolingDiscussion has 1551 members (even though we moved to google and so had some disruption, but it also cleaned out deadwood when we moved). They have 100 members listed. There have only been two posts in 2008 (as of June 10), so I thought I should save their insulting group intro because their list probably will die out.
Sandra note: The "unparenting or anarchy" phrase is interesting, and clearly a suggestion that that's what was advocated on the other list. Any group (list, club) formed in so reactionary a way can't be healthy. It needs to have a positive, happy core and not live in the shadow of the former group.
That's why I've told unschoolers they need to turn away from school and not live in the shadow of school. If they think "school" with every thought, they might as well be in school. Move away from the school. Find strength and joy and *then* you you can have growth.
From here down is the detailed fallout of someone defending herself to the moderators of a group. It was so much more work than learning about the group in the first place would have been. Joyce and Pam were angels to keep helping her.
It's too much for most people to care about; that's fine. :-)
"LOL" and then saying we're rude for objecting to being laughed at
Some of this exchange was off the list. Someone came to Always Learning to ask about whether and how kids can get into college. She has three children under eleven.
Several people responded. Pam Sorooshian, whose three daughters all were attending (one had graduated) responded. The exchange from here on is me in green, and the other person gets the benefit of having had her name excised.
Anonymized, on the list:
As you could se from my initial post I was simply wondering and wanting to let people know HOW it worked. I wasn't really looking for how children do IN school as I am sure all our children would be capable (a previous post sounded a bit like a resume, lol). I wanted to have something to say to naysayers and also was curious about the ease of it all for the children that choose this path.Sandra Dodd, on the list:
From: Sandra DoddPam Sorooshian on the list (Pam had already responded a the night before I did, but I didn't see hers before I posted mine above):
Re: [AlwaysLearning] College entry stories On 4/30/2009 9:43 PM, [anonymized] wrote:Anonymized, she WISHED on the list, but I sent it back:As you could se from my initial post I was simply wondering and wanting to let people know HOW it worked. I wasn't really looking for how children do IN school as I am sure all our children would be capable (a previous post sounded a bit like a resume, lol). I wanted to have something to say to naysayers and also was curious about the ease of it all for the children that choose this path.It isn't cool to laugh at what people offer in response to your questions, even if they misunderstood what you wanted.
From:The cover note for that return:
From: Sandra DoddHer response (sent too quickly to have even looked at those links, which doesn't surprise me but did disappoint me):
Sandra, I was simply trying to nicely let you know that it has seemed insulting in the past the way some members talk to each other, particularly to those new to this lifestyle. I feel sad that some may not want to post for fear that they will be attacked word for word on what they have said. It was a little joke and I am simply being honest. If you cannot take any critisism but feel free to dish it out than I do not know what to more to say to you. I am very kind and try to act the way I would like my children to. Humor is a quality that I quite admire and enjoy. It was a small joke and really I was being honest, I am sorry if that was hurtful but you all seem to have no problem with brutal honesty, some thing I was just trying to point out. I have re read what I wrote and still do not feel it was mean at all. Re reading her post, to me it feels aggressive towards me, maybe you could re read that one. Critisism is a good thing and not meant to be mean, I honestly thought it would be helpful to know that some of your comments as well as Pam's are very hurtful and rude to some of usI had been copying the moderators on those e-mails. Joyce wrote something good to the original poster. Very soothing:
[name] I'm sorry you misunderstood the purpose of the list.
I'm hard to offend. I posted that about it not being cool to laugh at what someone offers so that you'd think about it because it would help you in benefiting from the list, not because I was hurt.
Anyway, I appreciate your ability to reflect on the whole thing and consider it and learn from it. In fact, I applaud you for it! It bodes well for your unschooling future.
This list can be tough - it isn't for everyone. But it can be life-changing and, looking back, you may someday thank this list for creating great joy in your lives.
I really suggest reading reading reading - Sandra and Joyce have so much on their sites that we could spend a lifetime pondering it all. Let it wash over you.
You'll be glad you did.
Thanks Pam! I really appreciate it. I get defensive easily in regards to my parenting, something that needs to change for my parenting to improve! Silly, silly but clearly a good lesson so thanks for taking the time to share and again I apologize. (and read, read, read:)