Jo Isaac

Hi all,

Just a reminder to please fill in the age at which your children were reading independently, if they were always unschooled, on the google sheets spreadsheet.

Even if you gave me data previously (in 2016), could you fill it it in, so I have the data all together in one please. If you can't open the document, you can email me your data at joanneisaac@....

No need to enter your child's name if you don't want. It would be great to get over 100 data points!

Thanks! 
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1oqL6QCaDnAW3gjeRa3RJ0IWM5QlMZQZK9_ANj2YaGqc/edit#gid=0


Kari


Are you open to people putting in ages of children who aren't reading yet? I want to include my youngest who was reading fluently at nine, but I'm reticent to do that because I don't think that fully reflects our family's reality as my older two (ages 13 and 15) aren't reading yet. 

Thanks,

Kari


-----Original Message-----
From: Jo Isaac joanneisaac@... [AlwaysLearning] <[email protected]>
To: alwayslearning <[email protected]>
Sent: Mon, Aug 20, 2018 5:38 pm
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Reading age - more data please!

 
Hi all,
Just a reminder to please fill in the age at which your children were reading independently, if they were always unschooled, on the google sheets spreadsheet.

Even if you gave me data previously (in 2016), could you fill it it in, so I have the data all together in one please. If you can't open the document, you can email me your data at joanneisaac@....

No need to enter your child's name if you don't want. It would be great to get over 100 data points!

Thanks! 
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1oqL6QCaDnAW3gjeRa3RJ0IWM5QlMZQZK9_ANj2YaGqc/edit#gid=0

Sandra Dodd

-=-
Are you open to people putting in ages of children who aren't reading yet? I want to include my youngest who was reading fluently at nine, but I'm reticent to do that because I don't think that fully reflects our family's reality as my older two (ages 13 and 15) aren't reading yet. -=-

It’s not grouping families, though.
If you only had two children who werne’t, you wouldn’t contribute data.
If you only had one child, and he was reading, you could conribute.

I don’t think the comparisons are a factor.

Oh. Jo’s probably awake and can speak for herself. I mix Australia up with Europe sometimes, about who’s asleep when. :-)

Sandra

Jo Isaac

I can't really put them in the data if they aren't reading, because they won't be a data point.

But the reason I'm doing this again, is because I know last time a lot of older kids weren't represented because they weren't reading yet, which I do think skewed the results to a younger age than is actually true.

So, i'll probably update again, or you can send me their ages when they do learn to read, and I can add them then. But the more data I get now, the truer picture we will have - so yes, please add your child who was reading at 9, for now :) 

Jo





From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Sandra Dodd Sandra@... [AlwaysLearning] <[email protected]>
Sent: 21 August 2018 01:08
To: Always Learning
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Reading age - more data please!
 
 

-=-
Are you open to people putting in ages of children who aren't reading yet? I want to include my youngest who was reading fluently at nine, but I'm reticent to do that because I don't think that fully reflects our family's reality as my older two (ages 13 and 15) aren't reading yet. -=-

It’s not grouping families, though.
If you only had two children who werne’t, you wouldn’t contribute data.
If you only had one child, and he was reading, you could conribute.

I don’t think the comparisons are a factor.

Oh. Jo’s probably awake and can speak for herself. I mix Australia up with Europe sometimes, about who’s asleep when. :-)

Sandra

K Kissoyan

You ask (on the chart) for the age at which they "could read pretty much anything they wanted..." 
I have three kids who are deeply varied readers. My oldest, 11, still struggles, but can, technically, read anything he wants. But I also know he limits what he "wants" based on what he "can." So is he a yes or a no in your book? And how do I judge since when?
One of my twins (age 10) doesn't actually "want" to read much. But he can and that's been true for a long time, but again, I'm having trouble putting a data point on that for you. The other reads voraciously, and has since he was probably 6. 

I want your data to reflect what you're looking for; I'm not trying to be pedantic here, though admittedly it feels like I am. But I feel like there's a real answer and I want to help. I'm assuming you offered more guidelines at some point; can you re-share your goals and guidelines? 

Thanks!
Kimberley 

--
“It is paradoxical that many educators and parents still differentiate
between a time for learning and a time for play without seeing the
vital connection between them.”
-- Leo F. Buscaglia

"The better you are at your job, the more you’re rewarded, financially and spiritually, by doing it. You know how to solve problems for which you receive praise and money. Home life is more chaotic. Solving problems is less prescriptive and no one’s applauding or throwing money if you do it right... Learn to embrace the chaos of family life and enjoy the small victories."
-- Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

Jo Isaac

If they 'can' read anything they want, but choose not to, then whatever age they could read whatever they wanted to.

For your oldest, I'd put in 11, or maybe 11.5 if he's still finding some things hard.

I'd rather people were erring on the side of caution than otherwise, or it will skew the data to a younger age than it actual is...So if you think a kid could read pretty much *most* things they wanted by, say 8.5 years, then put 9 - as that is more likely the age they really could read all the things they wanted without too much effort.

Jo









From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of K Kissoyan kkissoyan@... [AlwaysLearning] <[email protected]>
Sent: 21 August 2018 06:47
To: [email protected]
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Re: Reading age - more data please!
 
 

You ask (on the chart) for the age at which they "could read pretty much anything they wanted..." 
I have three kids who are deeply varied readers. My oldest, 11, still struggles, but can, technically, read anything he wants. But I also know he limits what he "wants" based on what he "can." So is he a yes or a no in your book? And how do I judge since when?
One of my twins (age 10) doesn't actually "want" to read much. But he can and that's been true for a long time, but again, I'm having trouble putting a data point on that for you. The other reads voraciously, and has since he was probably 6. 

I want your data to reflect what you're looking for; I'm not trying to be pedantic here, though admittedly it feels like I am. But I feel like there's a real answer and I want to help. I'm assuming you offered more guidelines at some point; can you re-share your goals and guidelines? 

Thanks!
Kimberley 

--
“It is paradoxical that many educators and parents still differentiate
between a time for learning and a time for play without seeing the
vital connection between them.”
-- Leo F. Buscaglia

"The better you are at your job, the more you’re rewarded, financially and spiritually, by doing it. You know how to solve problems for which you receive praise and money. Home life is more chaotic. Solving problems is less prescriptive and no one’s applauding or throwing money if you do it right... Learn to embrace the chaos of family life and enjoy the small victories."
-- Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

Sandra Dodd

-=-My oldest, 11, still struggles, but can, technically, read anything he wants. But I also know he limits what he "wants" based on what he "can." So is he a yes or a no in your book? And how do I judge since when?-=-


Struggling isn’t fluency, though.

Would it help you to use another word (and thought) than “struggle”?
I think it might.
It might help others, too.

If he could “technically” read anything he wants, but he’s “struggling,” I’m wondering whether he’s sounding words out. If you’re separating reading from reading comprehension (as school does), I think (and I’m not Jo, but I’ve been writing about unschoolers reading for a long time) that it’s reading comprehension that is reading.

“He doesn’t know what he’s reading,” many parents of young school kids say.
Well… if “reading” without knowing what he’s reading is READING, then I can read a dozen European languages! I might miss some pronunciations, I might have some awkward inflections, but I could “read.”

Please hear yourself when you say (or think) “struggle” and see if you can rephrase what you’re saying in a way that’s using direct observation.
http://sandradodd.com/battle

Sandra

Sandra Dodd

-=-If he could “technically” read anything he wants, but he’s “struggling,” I’m wondering whether he’s sounding words out. If you’re separating reading from reading comprehension (as school does), I think (and I’m not Jo, but I’ve been writing about unschoolers reading for a long time) that it’s reading comprehension that is reading.-=-

I’m not asking for any clarification, and also not trying to be pushy.

Reading does get easier with practice. But when kid can read a note from a parent, can sort the mail that comes to the house, can read a menu (at least a backlit drive-through menu, maybe not a long restaurant menu in semi-darkness)…. that’s real reading.

I was suggesting anyone needed to read Jack Reacher or Jane Austen without the lips moving and then be able to act out scenes or discuss plot design.

Probably I went too far for parents who are looking forward and not back. Looking back is way, way easier!! :-)

Sandra

Michelle Marr

-=-If he could “technically” read anything he wants, but he’s “struggling,” I’m wondering whether he’s sounding words out. If you’re separating reading from reading comprehension (as school does), I think (and I’m not Jo, but I’ve been writing about unschoolers reading for a long time) that it’s reading comprehension that is reading.-=-

I know a seventy-five year old man who struggles to read. He can get through whatever it is and he can understand it all -- so that means he can read, right? --  but it's not effortless. He's a successful adult, by just about any standards, but reading isn't his thing. If he was a kid and a teacher watched him wading through a page of text, they'd stick him in a remedial reading class. But he hasn't been a kid and subject to that kind of criticism for a long time. 

Michelle