Not seeing basic skill development
bonniecrocker2003@...
I’ve been thinking of writing this post for months but have put it off as I’m not even sure how to articulate what I’ve been feeling besides the fact that it’s a painful post to write. I’ve been having a lot of anxiety lately, almost on a daily basis so I really need to get some advice from this forum. I should have never waited this long.
I’ve written to this forum before. I have 3 children ages 13, 13 and 16. They have always been unschooled. We live in Germany and due to an agreement between Germany and the military, we are able to unschool.
I’m very grateful to have found unschooling long ago. It changed our lives. I'm certain if I hadn't have found it, my kids lives wouldn't have been as wonderful as I believe they have been.
My 13 year old son came downstairs one night and said his online friend from Ireland was scared because it was thundering and lightening and his parents were asleep but he knew my son would be the only one up that late so he reached out to him. My son told me he played with him until he finally heard him snoring through the PS4. This same son's archery instructor told me the other day that he wanted him to be his assistant in the upcoming class because he was good and because he listened so well. I’ve never used punishments except for a brief time with my oldest right before I found unschooling which was when he was 3 or so. It was because of all the posts I’ve read from this forum and others that helped me in my relationship with my children. I could tell many, many stories similar to this about their kindness and gentle behavior. I think there is a real possibility that the outcome could have been much different and to their detriment if they had attended school.
It is because of their kind and sweet nature that I have put off writing this post because I absolutely hate the way in which I have been seeing them for some time. To put it bluntly, my kids don’t appear to be very smart. I know that isn’t a kind thing to say but for the sake of discussion, I don’t think I should sugarcoat it.
My 2 sons are obviously dyslexic and neither of them can spell. We did one of those escape games together a few weeks ago and my husband asked my oldest to write some numbers on the dry erase board and he painstakingly wrote them and kept erasing like he couldn’t picture the numbers in his head. I think he wrote a couple backwards. He’s 16 years old.
About 3 months ago, my husband accidentally found an email up on the main computer that my 13 year old son had written sending encouraging thoughts to his 15 year old friend who was assisting with his tennis instruction because she didn’t make some other team and I couldn’t even enjoy that sweet moment because all I could see was the glaring spelling mistakes. He wrote wood for would several times, chants for chance and many others. I’ll admit that I was embarrassed. My older son isn’t much better. He will text me from upstairs and ask sometimes if he can have his allowance early and he has spelled it every way but the correct way. I’ve told him how to spell it and he still spells it wrong. Once in a while he will get it right.
None of them can write by hand. I do realize that there isn’t much handwriting required now but for example, I took Raleigh to the teen center and he had to sign in. It also required a cell phone #. I wrote the phone # myself because he is unable to do so and he writes his numbers backwards too. I hold my breath hoping that they won’t be handed a form to fill out or asked to write something down when I’m not there. He doesn’t even know how to spell his middle name or knows the days of the week. I’m not sure he knows the months either. Every day he asks me if he has anything tomorrow. Any suggestion regarding a calendar or any other way he might be reminded, is met with disinterest.
Another example was when Raleigh went to the sink and announced it was “floody” his word for stopped up. I told him to turn the drain. Hunter came up to me as I was standing outside the bathroom and wanted to know if his blanket had been washed yet and he was standing 3 feet away from the washer and dryer. It never occurred to him to turn around and look. I know these are minor examples but both boys do things like this quite frequently. If they were isolated incidents, I wouldn't worry about it. It’s as if they can’t figure out the next step like there is some disconnect. Many times, they will stand around awaiting instruction for me on what to do. It's very hard to explain. My oldest does some odd things too like bringing water little by little over to a pot instead of bringing the pot to the sink and filling it with water. I gave him a paper towel to dry something off and he squished it up and dabbed at the water instead of just drying it off like someone else would most likely do. If I give more than one instruction at a time, both will get upset so I’ve learned not to do that. They can’t seem to process more than one thing at a time.
They don’t seem to know or understand what I would consider pretty basic things for their age. Their vocabulary is very basic. It’s as if I’ve had them locked in their rooms all their life with little access to the outside world. Since they were small, I’ve always brought interesting things in the house with lots of books, crafts, games, etc. I've always had bookshelves full of different things in which they have shown little interest. They have probably traveled close to 2 dozen countries and 4 continents. We just got back from Mallorca and my 13 year old son said where did we go again? He asked me 3 times. He kept saying Morocco where we went a couple of years ago.
I have many facebook friends that are now discussing their children going to college and I sit on the other side of the computer and realize mine couldn’t pass a 3rd grade test. I’m serious about that. Frankly, I’m scared about the future, especially my oldest. I want them to have choices. If they don't want to go to college, I want it to be because they truly don't want to go and not because they have the skills of a second grader. I'm pretty certain they have no idea what college is even about. I’m acutely aware that I can make it worse by shaming and I admit to doing some of that with my tone of voice. Raleigh was at the store with me a several days ago and I asked him to get me two white onions while I continued shopping. He came back without them saying he didn’t see them. I knew they were there and we went back together and they were there in plain sight where I told him they would be. I said do you not know what an onion is? I don’t say that lightly. I was very frustrated at the time. I might as well have just called him stupid. I was very upset with myself. As I wrote in the beginning, I should have written this much sooner before I allowed my frustration to boil over.
If we play any games like boggle, (I let any word count), it’s painfully obvious that it is a struggle for them to even play. They stick to 3 letter words mostly and then they struggle to write it. I often can't even tell on the paper what they have written. The quick process of thinking of a word and then writing it correctly on a piece of paper with a time limit is too much for them. We haven't played it in a long time.
In the past two years, all 3 have gravitated up to their rooms on their computers. They play ps4, computer games, Netflix and watch a lot of youtube. My oldest Hunter bowls in a bowling league and that is about it. When we were in Mallorca, he counted down the days until he could get back to his room to play on his computer. He said the best thing about the vacation was there was only x days left before he got to go home. He does want to learn the guitar which I’m working on now but the bowling is the extent of his activities. I’ve asked him if there is anything else I could be doing for him and he has said no. The other two are involved in a few activities such as drums, cheerleading, archery, dodgeball, cross country and the twins will go to the teen center on occasion. All 3 like to stay up until 2 or 3 am and sleep half the day away. This causes problems because they pet sit and sometimes we have 4 dogs and I’m constantly having to get on them to take the dogs out and now even feed them. The dogs can’t wait until noon when they get up and they love taking care of them but they will take the dog into their room and keep them there until I have to remind them yet again it’s time to take a dog out. I’ve explained to them about responsibility. They just get engrossed in their games and forget the time and then hear I will soon. Just a minute. I’m in the middle of something. I’m finding this extremely aggravating.
Hunter is very uncomfortable in social settings (identical to his father) and even though he has bowled on the youth league for years, he initiates zero conversation with anyone. If someone speaks to him, it’s mainly one or two word answers. Several months ago, I was taking him to the bowling alley and there were many kids hanging out at the entrance. I said why don’t you go ahead while I get the rest of the stuff out of the car. He said that is okay and I saw him looking at the kids at the entrance. A couple of months ago when we were in Denmark eating out with just my daughter, after the waitress left, she was looking glum and when I asked her what was wrong, she said I hate when people focus on me. I told her waitress does that while taking your order.
I have all these tapes running through my head which I haven’t been able to shut off for some time now. I read on fb my friends talking about college and see pictures of their kids holding up some award or attending a space camp or their latest accomplishment and the anxiety just mounts. I wonder what on earth are my kids going to do? Hunter is perfectly content playing on his computer and when I ask him if there are any other interests, he just smiles and says not really. He really has very little curiosity which again is similar to my husband. I’ve tried to engage him in conversation. If he does talk, he has a habit of saying never mind mid sentence despite the fact that I am listening to him. He often doesn’t finish his sentences and he stutters off and on and I think he gets frustrated he can’t get his words out.
I think of all the interviewing skills I needed to get jobs, my college education and jumping on opportunities as they presented themselves and I’ve managed to allow myself to get very depressed thinking of my kid’s futures. Their personalities are the complete opposite of mine. Of course, the other two are still young but all I see is my son continuing to play games in his room with no social skills or basic skills to eventually achieve independence. There is no initiative at all in even wanting to see what is outside his room.
While I was writing this, Hunter came in my room with the remote to the AC and asked if going up or down made it cooler. It is in Celsius. This seems very basic information to me for a 16 year old not to know. I’m not understanding this at all. I find it really odd. Yet he was able to build his computer with his father with minimal help.
I could add so much more but I wanted to give a good overview of what is fueling my anxiety and I didn’t feel like I could explain it very well if I didn’t give several examples. Yet I know it comes across as a very negative post about my children. I hate not being at peace and feeling anxious which is why I tried to ignore the feelings for so long and put off writing this post. I do see the good in them but nice, kind and gentle kids still need some basic skills in our ever changing world. All 3 would make great team players but you have to be able to get on the team first.
I obviously need a new perspective and how to make changes within myself so that I can help them. I really could use some advice or maybe a lot of advice. I can't even begin to articulate how difficult it was to write this post. Thank you.
Sandra Dodd
For yourself, maybe, make a list of the good things they know and can do that’s at least as long as the e-mail you sent the group.
If your e-mail still goes back to 2013, look for the responses to your question in December 2013. You’ve asked another couple of times, too, about writing, about them playing on the computers and PS3. I seriously think if you can go through e-mail or to the yahoogroup and review what you wrote before and the suggestions people gave, that it could be helpful.
It might help to have someone to help you look at all the details, too, and to provide some follow-through. There are some people listed here: http://sandradodd.com/issues/therapy
Maybe you could do single sessions with a couple or four of them and see if anyone seems likely to be able to help you out.
-=- All 3 like to stay up until 2 or 3 am and sleep half the day away.-=-
How much of the 24-hour day are they sleeping though? I’m not asking, I’m asking you to figure out that defining it as “sleep half the day away” is looking at the day you WISH they were awake for, and not at the hours they ARE awake.
-=- This causes problems because they pet sit and sometimes we have 4 dogs and I’m constantly having to get on them to take the dogs out and now even feed them. -=-
You do it.
You don’t “have to” get on them. They’re old enough to be left in the house. You could take the dogs out and feed them.
-=- I’ve explained to them about responsibility. They just get engrossed in their games and forget the time and then hear I will soon. Just a minute. I’m in the middle of something. I’m finding this extremely aggravating.-=-
Don’t talk to them about responsibility. Show them. Make sure a dog is not peeing in your house or going without water. Just do it sweetly.
-=-Hunter is very uncomfortable in social settings (identical to his father) and even though he has bowled on the youth league for years, he initiates zero conversation with anyone. If someone speaks to him, it’s mainly one or two word answers. -=-
Yet you married his identical father.
If that’s the way your kids are, arrange life so that they’re more comfortable and provided for instead of being aggravated and frustrated and hating the way you see them.
Let them grow up happy. They’re not grown yet. If they’re eventually going to need more years at home before they can live elsewhere. let that happen. Provide what they need.
You’re looking at college, and other families stories, it seems, but that won’t help get anyone into college. Maybe they will never go. Maybe they will all go. Don’t make it about you, though.
My middle kid is a senior in college, but he’s also 28. His dad? Normal “school-kid,” went to college at 18, didn’t stay in well, got a degree at 29. But I married him, and he reproduced. :-)
Your anxiety cannot be helping.
Sandra
Sandra Dodd
Way to keep an escape room from being fun!
You or your husband should have written the numbers down, if the purpose was to have the numbers to refer to.
Don’t create tests. There are enough things in the world that will be frustrating without entrapping them.
-=-About 3 months ago, my husband accidentally found an email up on the main computer that my 13 year old son had written sending encouraging thoughts to his 15 year old friend who was assisting with his tennis instruction because she didn’t make some other team and I couldn’t even enjoy that sweet moment because all I could see was the glaring spelling mistakes. He wrote wood for would several times, chants for chance and many others. I’ll admit that I was embarrassed. My older son isn’t much better. He will text me from upstairs and ask sometimes if he can have his allowance early and he has spelled it every way but the correct way. I’ve told him how to spell it and he still spells it wrong. Once in a while he will get it right.-=-
On December 23, 2013, you wrote this:
-=-What prompted me to write to this list today is because when I was out, apparently my kids were fooling around and broke a decoration. My son wrote the following in all caps: YEE R SORRY HER'S 1$ 1 c (two lines drawn through the c) This is suppose to say We are sorry. Here's $1 and 1 euro. The lines for the euro were vertical instead of horizontal. We live in Germany. My first thought was how nice that they offered to pay for the damage:)-=-
I think your first thought was that the writing wasn’t good.
I’m pretty sure we suggested ways for you how to get over that, but you still stress and are critical. I hope once in a while you get it right. :-)
I think, truly, you should go back and read the responses you got before, too (in addition to those you will get now).
You can use the search function at yahoogroups. There’s probably a link to that at the bottom of this email, or you can use the search function there and look for your name, and pull up the responses.
Sandra
Sandra Dodd
“Flooded” isn’t a made up word, though. And if he uses a word you understand, even though it’s not “the best” or the only right word, if he has communicated, accept the communication without being critical, every time you can.
-=- Hunter came up to me as I was standing outside the bathroom and wanted to know if his blanket had been washed yet and he was standing 3 feet away from the washer and dryer. It never occurred to him to turn around and look. -=-
My husband still does that to me. :-)
Find ways to love these people so much that you’re willing to answer their questions about laundry, or the names of countries that start with M, or to feed dogs without riling yourself up.
-=-They don’t seem to know or understand what I would consider pretty basic things for their age. -=-
Some of the problems you’re reporting, though, aren’t problems unschoolers who have been deschooling for 12 years are still having, so perhaps that’s a way ideas go in your family. Or maybe you’re only coming to the discussion when you have a problem.
If you’re not subscribed to Just Add Light and Stir, please do that. Also maybe site updates.
I write every day. So do dozens of others, more often on facebook these days than here, but still… LOTS of writing. And I’m still collecting wonderful things. It might be that if you read every day and look for the ideas you can use to make that moment better, that hour, that your stress will dissolve some.
http://justaddlightandstir.blogspot.com
http://aboutunschooling.blogspot.com
And don’t just read the posts. If something seems useful or intriguing, follow the link. Read a little, try a little, wait a while, watch. Go to other links listed below, at the blog. Don’t depend on the e-mails—click through to the blog, and from there, through to the website.
-=-, I’ve always brought interesting things in the house with lots of books, crafts, games, etc. I've always had bookshelves full of different things in which they have shown little interest.-=-
I’m feeling like that at the moment about all my pages and posts. :-)
But “Books, crafts and games” are NOT the kinds of things that are going to be interesting to kids who aren’t big into language. At least not games like boggle. If you have kids who can’t spell, Don’t Play Spelling Games.
-=-If we play any games like boggle, (I let any word count), it’s painfully obvious that it is a struggle for them to even play.-=-
Don’t ever play that game again, though, if you can’t write about it without the words “struggle” and “painful.”
If you want to be a better unschooler, so that these things aren’t stressing you, so that you’re looking at all the things they DO instead of stressing about what they can’t do, spend some time every day reading about unschooling and about finding ways to be at peace, and hopeful.
Sandra
Jo Isaac
I replied in total to the post, but it's too long to post as one reply (5 A4 pages!), so i'll break it into 3 posts.
Response 1.
==To put it bluntly, my kids don’t appear to be very smart.==
My Dad thought I wasn't smart because I failed school. He even told me so, but he didn't need to, it was abundantly clear what he thought. Your kids know too. When I told my Dad I was going back to Uni as an adult, he laughed and said 'I'll beleive it when
I see it'. Ten years later when I got my PhD, he seemed to forget all about that - because now I was 'smart' in his eyes...but guess what - i'd been 'smart' all along...
Not one of the things you have mentioned gives any indication your kids aren’t ‘smart’. If you are still thinking of school smarts as ‘smart’ (reading, writing,
math) then you haven’t deschooled enough, even after all this time.
Read about Gardiner’s theory of multiple intelligences. ‘Schooly’ type one’s only make up a couple, from what you wrote about your sons, they are very high on Interpersonal intelligence, especially.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_multiple_intelligences#Interpersonal
==My 2 sons are obviously dyslexic and neither of them can spell.==
Why are they ‘obviously’ dyslexic? Just because they reverse when writing? Kids that don’t write often do reverse numbers and letters, it’s just lack of practice. My son is 11 and also does that. He’s not dyslexic – he just has no real reason to write often
so it doesn’t come naturally to him. When he types he doesn’t get letters mixed up at all.
== We did one of those escape games together a few weeks ago and my husband asked my oldest to write some numbers on the dry erase board and he painstakingly wrote them and kept erasing like he couldn’t picture the numbers in his head. ==
Don’t make him write his own numbers if he doesn’t want to.
==glaring spelling mistakes. ==
They aren’t ‘glaring’, they are quite obvious phonetic ways of spelling those words and ‘allowance’ is a difficult word to spell anyway. Put spell check on his phone, if he’s interested. If he’s not, don’t worry about it. I spelt ‘infinite’ incorrectly until
I was in my 30’s (infinate) – I still got a PhD in science.
==None of them can write
by hand. I do realize that there isn’t much handwriting required now but for example, I took Raleigh to the teen center and he had to sign in. It also required a cell phone #. I wrote the phone # myself because he is unable to do so and he writes his numbers
backwards too. I hold my breath hoping that they won’t be handed a form to fill out or asked to write something down when I’m not there.
==
If you think that might happen, prep for that. My son needed to recently sign his own passport (required over 10 years old in Australia, otherwise we had to get a doctor to sign off saying he wasn’t capable of doing it, and we didn’t really want to go down
that road). So, we devised a simple 3 letter signature based on his initials, that he could replicate. Signing in could literally just be initials. If he’s not worried, why are you worried? Don’t hold your breath – it’s not helping.
Sent: 26 July 2017 13:07
To: [email protected]
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Not seeing basic skill development
I’ve been thinking of writing this post for months but have put it off as I’m not even sure how to articulate what I’ve been feeling besides the fact that it’s a painful post to write. I’ve been having a lot of anxiety lately, almost on a daily basis so I really need to get some advice from this forum. I should have never waited this long.
I’ve written to this forum before. I have 3 children ages 13, 13 and 16. They have always been unschooled. We live in Germany and due to an agreement between Germany and the military, we are able to unschool.
I’m very grateful to have found unschooling long ago. It changed our lives. I'm certain if I hadn't have found it, my kids lives wouldn't have been as wonderful as I believe they have been.
My 13 year old son came downstairs one night and said his online friend from Ireland was scared because it was thundering and lightening and his parents were asleep but he knew my son would be the only one up that late so he reached out to him. My son told me he played with him until he finally heard him snoring through the PS4. This same son's archery instructor told me the other day that he wanted him to be his assistant in the upcoming class because he was good and because he listened so well. I’ve never used punishments except for a brief time with my oldest right before I found unschooling which was when he was 3 or so. It was because of all the posts I’ve read from this forum and others that helped me in my relationship with my children. I could tell many, many stories similar to this about their kindness and gentle behavior. I think there is a real possibility that the outcome could have been much different and to their detriment if they had attended school.
It is because of their kind and sweet nature that I have put off writing this post because I absolutely hate the way in which I have been seeing them for some time. To put it bluntly, my kids don’t appear to be very smart. I know that isn’t a kind thing to say but for the sake of discussion, I don’t think I should sugarcoat it.
My 2 sons are obviously dyslexic and neither of them can spell. We did one of those escape games together a few weeks ago and my husband asked my oldest to write some numbers on the dry erase board and he painstakingly wrote them and kept erasing like he couldn’t picture the numbers in his head. I think he wrote a couple backwards. He’s 16 years old.
About 3 months ago, my husband accidentally found an email up on the main computer that my 13 year old son had written sending encouraging thoughts to his 15 year old friend who was assisting with his tennis instruction because she didn’t make some other team and I couldn’t even enjoy that sweet moment because all I could see was the glaring spelling mistakes. He wrote wood for would several times, chants for chance and many others. I’ll admit that I was embarrassed. My older son isn’t much better. He will text me from upstairs and ask sometimes if he can have his allowance early and he has spelled it every way but the correct way. I’ve told him how to spell it and he still spells it wrong. Once in a while he will get it right.
None of them can write by hand. I do realize that there isn’t much handwriting required now but for example, I took Raleigh to the teen center and he had to sign in. It also required a cell phone #. I wrote the phone # myself because he is unable to do so and he writes his numbers backwards too. I hold my breath hoping that they won’t be handed a form to fill out or asked to write something down when I’m not there. He doesn’t even know how to spell his middle name or knows the days of the week. I’m not sure he knows the months either. Every day he asks me if he has anything tomorrow. Any suggestion regarding a calendar or any other way he might be reminded, is met with disinterest.
Another example was when Raleigh went to the sink and announced it was “floody” his word for stopped up. I told him to turn the drain. Hunter came up to me as I was standing outside the bathroom and wanted to know if his blanket had been washed yet and he was standing 3 feet away from the washer and dryer. It never occurred to him to turn around and look. I know these are minor examples but both boys do things like this quite frequently. If they were isolated incidents, I wouldn't worry about it. It’s as if they can’t figure out the next step like there is some disconnect. Many times, they will stand around awaiting instruction for me on what to do. It's very hard to explain. My oldest does some odd things too like bringing water little by little over to a pot instead of bringing the pot to the sink and filling it with water. I gave him a paper towel to dry something off and he squished it up and dabbed at the water instead of just drying it off like someone else would most likely do. If I give more than one instruction at a time, both will get upset so I’ve learned not to do that. They can’t seem to process more than one thing at a time.
They don’t seem to know or understand what I would consider pretty basic things for their age. Their vocabulary is very basic. It’s as if I’ve had them locked in their rooms all their life with little access to the outside world. Since they were small, I’ve always brought interesting things in the house with lots of books, crafts, games, etc. I've always had bookshelves full of different things in which they have shown little interest. They have probably traveled close to 2 dozen countries and 4 continents. We just got back from Mallorca and my 13 year old son said where did we go again? He asked me 3 times. He kept saying Morocco where we went a couple of years ago.
I have many facebook friends that are now discussing their children going to college and I sit on the other side of the computer and realize mine couldn’t pass a 3rd grade test. I’m serious about that. Frankly, I’m scared about the future, especially my oldest. I want them to have choices. If they don't want to go to college, I want it to be because they truly don't want to go and not because they have the skills of a second grader. I'm pretty certain they have no idea what college is even about. I’m acutely aware that I can make it worse by shaming and I admit to doing some of that with my tone of voice. Raleigh was at the store with me a several days ago and I asked him to get me two white onions while I continued shopping. He came back without them saying he didn’t see them. I knew they were there and we went back together and they were there in plain sight where I told him they would be. I said do you not know what an onion is? I don’t say that lightly. I was very frustrated at the time. I might as well have just called him stupid. I was very upset with myself. As I wrote in the beginning, I should have written this much sooner before I allowed my frustration to boil over.
If we play any games like boggle, (I let any word count), it’s painfully obvious that it is a struggle for them to even play. They stick to 3 letter words mostly and then they struggle to write it. I often can't even tell on the paper what they have written. The quick process of thinking of a word and then writing it correctly on a piece of paper with a time limit is too much for them. We haven't played it in a long time.
In the past two years, all 3 have gravitated up to their rooms on their computers. They play ps4, computer games, Netflix and watch a lot of youtube. My oldest Hunter bowls in a bowling league and that is about it. When we were in Mallorca, he counted down the days until he could get back to his room to play on his computer. He said the best thing about the vacation was there was only x days left before he got to go home. He does want to learn the guitar which I’m working on now but the bowling is the extent of his activities. I’ve asked him if there is anything else I could be doing for him and he has said no. The other two are involved in a few activities such as drums, cheerleading, archery, dodgeball, cross country and the twins will go to the teen center on occasion. All 3 like to stay up until 2 or 3 am and sleep half the day away. This causes problems because they pet sit and sometimes we have 4 dogs and I’m constantly having to get on them to take the dogs out and now even feed them. The dogs can’t wait until noon when they get up and they love taking care of them but they will take the dog into their room and keep them there until I have to remind them yet again it’s time to take a dog out. I’ve explained to them about responsibility. They just get engrossed in their games and forget the time and then hear I will soon. Just a minute. I’m in the middle of something. I’m finding this extremely aggravating.
Hunter is very uncomfortable in social settings (identical to his father) and even though he has bowled on the youth league for years, he initiates zero conversation with anyone. If someone speaks to him, it’s mainly one or two word answers. Several months ago, I was taking him to the bowling alley and there were many kids hanging out at the entrance. I said why don’t you go ahead while I get the rest of the stuff out of the car. He said that is okay and I saw him looking at the kids at the entrance. A couple of months ago when we were in Denmark eating out with just my daughter, after the waitress left, she was looking glum and when I asked her what was wrong, she said I hate when people focus on me. I told her waitress does that while taking your order.
I have all these tapes running through my head which I haven’t been able to shut off for some time now. I read on fb my friends talking about college and see pictures of their kids holding up some award or attending a space camp or their latest accomplishment and the anxiety just mounts. I wonder what on earth are my kids going to do? Hunter is perfectly content playing on his computer and when I ask him if there are any other interests, he just smiles and says not really. He really has very little curiosity which again is similar to my husband. I’ve tried to engage him in conversation. If he does talk, he has a habit of saying never mind mid sentence despite the fact that I am listening to him. He often doesn’t finish his sentences and he stutters off and on and I think he gets frustrated he can’t get his words out.
I think of all the interviewing skills I needed to get jobs, my college education and jumping on opportunities as they presented themselves and I’ve managed to allow myself to get very depressed thinking of my kid’s futures. Their personalities are the complete opposite of mine. Of course, the other two are still young but all I see is my son continuing to play games in his room with no social skills or basic skills to eventually achieve independence. There is no initiative at all in even wanting to see what is outside his room.
While I was writing this, Hunter came in my room with the remote to the AC and asked if going up or down made it cooler. It is in Celsius. This seems very basic information to me for a 16 year old not to know. I’m not understanding this at all. I find it really odd. Yet he was able to build his computer with his father with minimal help.
I could add so much more but I wanted to give a good overview of what is fueling my anxiety and I didn’t feel like I could explain it very well if I didn’t give several examples. Yet I know it comes across as a very negative post about my children. I hate not being at peace and feeling anxious which is why I tried to ignore the feelings for so long and put off writing this post. I do see the good in them but nice, kind and gentle kids still need some basic skills in our ever changing world. All 3 would make great team players but you have to be able to get on the team first.
I obviously need a new perspective and how to make changes within myself so that I can help them. I really could use some advice or maybe a lot of advice. I can't even begin to articulate how difficult it was to write this post. Thank you.
Jo Isaac
Response post 2:
==He
doesn’t even know how to spell his middle name or knows the days of the week. I’m not sure he knows the months either. Every day he asks me if he has anything tomorrow. Any suggestion regarding a calendar or any other way he might be reminded, is met with
disinterest. ==
Because he doesn’t need to know his middle name. Because he hasn’t needed to know the days of the week. If and when he does, he’ll remember them. You are expecting them to value something that is of no value to
or interest to
them, right now.
I have a small white board in the kitchen with days of the week and what we are doing. Sometimes Kai looks at it, sometimes not. It’s there mostly for me and my husband.
==Another example was when Raleigh went to the sink and announced it was “floody” his word for stopped up. I told
him to turn the drain. ==
I think floody is a great adjective to describe a flooded sink!
==Hunter came up to me as I was standing outside the bathroom and wanted to know if his blanket had been washed yet and he was standing 3 feet away from the washer and dryer. It never occurred to him to turn around and look.==
That sounds like a normal kid? Why are you looking to pick out negative things? Just answer yes or no.
==My oldest does some odd things too like bringing water little by little over to a pot instead of bringing the pot to the sink and filling it with water.==
My husband does stuff like that – he just hasn’t been around cooking and kitchens much.
==I have many facebook friends that are now discussing their children going to college and I sit on the other side of the computer and
realize mine couldn’t pass a 3rd grade test. ==
Hide their posts - I’m serious about that. Those posts are messing with your deschooling, and probably contributing a large amount to your anxiety. So what if their kids are going to college right now? College is always there – it doesn’t stop being an option
at 18..I went back to college at 25 – I probably couldn’t have passed a 3rd grade test at 16. I certainly failed all my GCSE’s at that age. I got a PhD at 35. Your children HAVE choices, stop thinking those choices run out based on school ages.
==I'm pretty certain they have no idea what college is even about. ==
What do YOU think college is about? Just consider that to yourself. I didn’t know anyone who had been to college as a kid – certainly no-one in my working class family had been. I had no idea what it was about. That didn’t stop me going when I chose it as an
option later on.
---------------------
Sent: 26 July 2017 13:07
To: [email protected]
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Not seeing basic skill development
I’ve been thinking of writing this post for months but have put it off as I’m not even sure how to articulate what I’ve been feeling besides the fact that it’s a painful post to write. I’ve been having a lot of anxiety lately, almost on a daily basis so I really need to get some advice from this forum. I should have never waited this long.
I’ve written to this forum before. I have 3 children ages 13, 13 and 16. They have always been unschooled. We live in Germany and due to an agreement between Germany and the military, we are able to unschool.
I’m very grateful to have found unschooling long ago. It changed our lives. I'm certain if I hadn't have found it, my kids lives wouldn't have been as wonderful as I believe they have been.
My 13 year old son came downstairs one night and said his online friend from Ireland was scared because it was thundering and lightening and his parents were asleep but he knew my son would be the only one up that late so he reached out to him. My son told me he played with him until he finally heard him snoring through the PS4. This same son's archery instructor told me the other day that he wanted him to be his assistant in the upcoming class because he was good and because he listened so well. I’ve never used punishments except for a brief time with my oldest right before I found unschooling which was when he was 3 or so. It was because of all the posts I’ve read from this forum and others that helped me in my relationship with my children. I could tell many, many stories similar to this about their kindness and gentle behavior. I think there is a real possibility that the outcome could have been much different and to their detriment if they had attended school.
It is because of their kind and sweet nature that I have put off writing this post because I absolutely hate the way in which I have been seeing them for some time. To put it bluntly, my kids don’t appear to be very smart. I know that isn’t a kind thing to say but for the sake of discussion, I don’t think I should sugarcoat it.
My 2 sons are obviously dyslexic and neither of them can spell. We did one of those escape games together a few weeks ago and my husband asked my oldest to write some numbers on the dry erase board and he painstakingly wrote them and kept erasing like he couldn’t picture the numbers in his head. I think he wrote a couple backwards. He’s 16 years old.
About 3 months ago, my husband accidentally found an email up on the main computer that my 13 year old son had written sending encouraging thoughts to his 15 year old friend who was assisting with his tennis instruction because she didn’t make some other team and I couldn’t even enjoy that sweet moment because all I could see was the glaring spelling mistakes. He wrote wood for would several times, chants for chance and many others. I’ll admit that I was embarrassed. My older son isn’t much better. He will text me from upstairs and ask sometimes if he can have his allowance early and he has spelled it every way but the correct way. I’ve told him how to spell it and he still spells it wrong. Once in a while he will get it right.
None of them can write by hand. I do realize that there isn’t much handwriting required now but for example, I took Raleigh to the teen center and he had to sign in. It also required a cell phone #. I wrote the phone # myself because he is unable to do so and he writes his numbers backwards too. I hold my breath hoping that they won’t be handed a form to fill out or asked to write something down when I’m not there. He doesn’t even know how to spell his middle name or knows the days of the week. I’m not sure he knows the months either. Every day he asks me if he has anything tomorrow. Any suggestion regarding a calendar or any other way he might be reminded, is met with disinterest.
Another example was when Raleigh went to the sink and announced it was “floody” his word for stopped up. I told him to turn the drain. Hunter came up to me as I was standing outside the bathroom and wanted to know if his blanket had been washed yet and he was standing 3 feet away from the washer and dryer. It never occurred to him to turn around and look. I know these are minor examples but both boys do things like this quite frequently. If they were isolated incidents, I wouldn't worry about it. It’s as if they can’t figure out the next step like there is some disconnect. Many times, they will stand around awaiting instruction for me on what to do. It's very hard to explain. My oldest does some odd things too like bringing water little by little over to a pot instead of bringing the pot to the sink and filling it with water. I gave him a paper towel to dry something off and he squished it up and dabbed at the water instead of just drying it off like someone else would most likely do. If I give more than one instruction at a time, both will get upset so I’ve learned not to do that. They can’t seem to process more than one thing at a time.
They don’t seem to know or understand what I would consider pretty basic things for their age. Their vocabulary is very basic. It’s as if I’ve had them locked in their rooms all their life with little access to the outside world. Since they were small, I’ve always brought interesting things in the house with lots of books, crafts, games, etc. I've always had bookshelves full of different things in which they have shown little interest. They have probably traveled close to 2 dozen countries and 4 continents. We just got back from Mallorca and my 13 year old son said where did we go again? He asked me 3 times. He kept saying Morocco where we went a couple of years ago.
I have many facebook friends that are now discussing their children going to college and I sit on the other side of the computer and realize mine couldn’t pass a 3rd grade test. I’m serious about that. Frankly, I’m scared about the future, especially my oldest. I want them to have choices. If they don't want to go to college, I want it to be because they truly don't want to go and not because they have the skills of a second grader. I'm pretty certain they have no idea what college is even about. I’m acutely aware that I can make it worse by shaming and I admit to doing some of that with my tone of voice. Raleigh was at the store with me a several days ago and I asked him to get me two white onions while I continued shopping. He came back without them saying he didn’t see them. I knew they were there and we went back together and they were there in plain sight where I told him they would be. I said do you not know what an onion is? I don’t say that lightly. I was very frustrated at the time. I might as well have just called him stupid. I was very upset with myself. As I wrote in the beginning, I should have written this much sooner before I allowed my frustration to boil over.
If we play any games like boggle, (I let any word count), it’s painfully obvious that it is a struggle for them to even play. They stick to 3 letter words mostly and then they struggle to write it. I often can't even tell on the paper what they have written. The quick process of thinking of a word and then writing it correctly on a piece of paper with a time limit is too much for them. We haven't played it in a long time.
In the past two years, all 3 have gravitated up to their rooms on their computers. They play ps4, computer games, Netflix and watch a lot of youtube. My oldest Hunter bowls in a bowling league and that is about it. When we were in Mallorca, he counted down the days until he could get back to his room to play on his computer. He said the best thing about the vacation was there was only x days left before he got to go home. He does want to learn the guitar which I’m working on now but the bowling is the extent of his activities. I’ve asked him if there is anything else I could be doing for him and he has said no. The other two are involved in a few activities such as drums, cheerleading, archery, dodgeball, cross country and the twins will go to the teen center on occasion. All 3 like to stay up until 2 or 3 am and sleep half the day away. This causes problems because they pet sit and sometimes we have 4 dogs and I’m constantly having to get on them to take the dogs out and now even feed them. The dogs can’t wait until noon when they get up and they love taking care of them but they will take the dog into their room and keep them there until I have to remind them yet again it’s time to take a dog out. I’ve explained to them about responsibility. They just get engrossed in their games and forget the time and then hear I will soon. Just a minute. I’m in the middle of something. I’m finding this extremely aggravating.
Hunter is very uncomfortable in social settings (identical to his father) and even though he has bowled on the youth league for years, he initiates zero conversation with anyone. If someone speaks to him, it’s mainly one or two word answers. Several months ago, I was taking him to the bowling alley and there were many kids hanging out at the entrance. I said why don’t you go ahead while I get the rest of the stuff out of the car. He said that is okay and I saw him looking at the kids at the entrance. A couple of months ago when we were in Denmark eating out with just my daughter, after the waitress left, she was looking glum and when I asked her what was wrong, she said I hate when people focus on me. I told her waitress does that while taking your order.
I have all these tapes running through my head which I haven’t been able to shut off for some time now. I read on fb my friends talking about college and see pictures of their kids holding up some award or attending a space camp or their latest accomplishment and the anxiety just mounts. I wonder what on earth are my kids going to do? Hunter is perfectly content playing on his computer and when I ask him if there are any other interests, he just smiles and says not really. He really has very little curiosity which again is similar to my husband. I’ve tried to engage him in conversation. If he does talk, he has a habit of saying never mind mid sentence despite the fact that I am listening to him. He often doesn’t finish his sentences and he stutters off and on and I think he gets frustrated he can’t get his words out.
I think of all the interviewing skills I needed to get jobs, my college education and jumping on opportunities as they presented themselves and I’ve managed to allow myself to get very depressed thinking of my kid’s futures. Their personalities are the complete opposite of mine. Of course, the other two are still young but all I see is my son continuing to play games in his room with no social skills or basic skills to eventually achieve independence. There is no initiative at all in even wanting to see what is outside his room.
While I was writing this, Hunter came in my room with the remote to the AC and asked if going up or down made it cooler. It is in Celsius. This seems very basic information to me for a 16 year old not to know. I’m not understanding this at all. I find it really odd. Yet he was able to build his computer with his father with minimal help.
I could add so much more but I wanted to give a good overview of what is fueling my anxiety and I didn’t feel like I could explain it very well if I didn’t give several examples. Yet I know it comes across as a very negative post about my children. I hate not being at peace and feeling anxious which is why I tried to ignore the feelings for so long and put off writing this post. I do see the good in them but nice, kind and gentle kids still need some basic skills in our ever changing world. All 3 would make great team players but you have to be able to get on the team first.
I obviously need a new perspective and how to make changes within myself so that I can help them. I really could use some advice or maybe a lot of advice. I can't even begin to articulate how difficult it was to write this post. Thank you.
Jo Isaac
Response post 3 (final)
------------------------------
==If we play any games like boggle, (I let any word count), it’s painfully obvious that it is a struggle for them to even play. They stick
to 3 letter words mostly and then they struggle to write it.==
Don’t let them struggle. Write for them. Don’t play Boggle. Play games that don’t require writing or spelling. I don’t like Boggle, because i’ve never been good at anagrams. Even now, at 47, I am rubbish at anagrams (and Sudoku!).
==The quick process of thinking of a word and then writing it correctly on a piece of paper with a time limit is too much for them. We haven't played it in a long time.==
If they don’t often write, why are you expecting they can write under that time limit! Don’t play at all. Don’t even think about it. Sell the game if you need to.
==When we were in Mallorca, he counted down the days until he could get back to his room to play on his computer. ==
Be happy that he loves home so much that that is his favourite place. I hated going on holiday with my family as a teenager – I just wanted to go home. My son doesn’t love going away either, he loves home so much – it’s where his laptop and games are, where
his friends are, where he feels comfortable.
==He does want to learn the guitar which I’m working on now==
What do you mean by ‘working on’? I hope you haven’t immediately jumped to the idea of lessons. Just get him a guitar – a second hand one is pretty cheap. YouTube is a great place to start. Maybe he’ll eventually ask for lessons, but don’t jump on them as first
choice.
== but the bowling is the extent of his activities.==
Why do you feel they need to do any ‘activities’ if they don’t want to. Why are you placing greater value on ‘activities’ than them being home gaming.
==The dogs can’t wait until noon when they get up and they love taking care of them but they will take the dog into their room and keep them there until I have to remind them yet again it’s time to take a dog out.==
Do they really still want to pet sit? Or are you keeping it up as a ‘responsibility’ for them when really they’d rather not, even if they do love the dogs? Dogs can’t wait until noon – that is irresponsible pet sitting behaviour – and as the adult, that’s on
you. Either take the dogs out yourself, or stop the pet sitting completely. My son dog walks, and recently one of our owners asked us to do 5 days a week. That’s too much for him – he’s busy gaming with friends, and doesn’t want a 5 day a week job, he's 11
– so I took on two of those days myself, he’s still happy with doing 3 days, for now - but we will revisit that option regularly in case he feels it's too much.
==Hunter is very uncomfortable in social settings (identical to his father) ==
The tendency to introversion or extroversion likely has strong genetic tendencies. Why do you wish for him to be so different to his father? I don’t like social settings – they exhaust me. My son is the same. As a teenager I wouldn’t have initiated conversation
with anyone either...and I wouldn’t have liked people looking at me.
==I read on fb my friends
talking about college and see pictures of their kids holding up some award or attending a space camp or their latest accomplishment and the anxiety just mounts.
==
Again, I repeat, hide their posts. Why read things that cause you anxiety?
==I wonder what on earth are my kids going to do? Hunter is perfectly content
==
Focus on NOW. Right now they are perfectly content. Happier at home than anywhere else. College isn’t going anywhere. They may or may not choose it. They DO have that option – because if they want to go, they will make it happen – I know, because I did (despite
being in high school remedial math, and failing every school exam I took).
==I think of all the interviewing skills I needed to get jobs, my college education and jumping on opportunities as they presented themselves and
I’ve managed to allow myself to get very depressed thinking of my kid’s futures.
==
Don’t. They aren’t you. You weren’t unschooled. They don’t need to go to college. They’ve already had pet sitting jobs without needing interviews.
==Their personalities are the complete opposite of mine.==
I think, aside from the fact you haven’t deschooled, this is your biggest issue. You have said multiple times they are like their Father – the man you chose to marry. You can’t make an extrovert become an introvert, or vice-versa.
==no social skills or basic skills to eventually achieve independence.==
If you are talking about your eldest, you told us that he has written kind letters to help his friends, that his archery teacher wants him to assist in class because he’s so good. So how can you think he has no skills?
When I left home at 18, I couldn't cook. I had never washed my own clothes. I had 'failed' school. But I travelled around the world, largely on my own, for 6 years - working different jobs, learning all kinds of stuff that school hadn't helped me learn. I learnt
to wash my own clothes when I needed to. I even learnt to cook - eventually. My Dad said 'I never thought you'd do something like that' - don't underestimate what your kids can do, and will do.
==While I was writing this,
Hunter came in my room with the remote to the AC and asked if going up or down made it cooler. It is in Celsius. This seems very basic information to me for a 16 year old not to know.
==
If he’s never really thought about temperature in that way, why would he know? Why is that odd? I bet if a similar thing came up in one of his video games, he would know for sure.
== I hate not being at peace and
feeling anxious which is why I tried to ignore the feelings for so long and put off writing this post.==
It seems like you really need to go back to basic deschooling. Read, re-read, about deschooling. Hide your friends posts about college and high school. Focus on the children you have NOW, all the amazing things they are doing – don’t just write it off as ‘games’
and ‘youtube’ - what games are they ACTUALLY playing? What do they do in them, are they talking to friends and problem solving together as they do it? What are they watching on YouTube? Sit with them, chat about what they ARE doing, not what you want them
to do.
== I do see the good in them but nice, kind and gentle kids still need some basic skills in our ever changing world. All 3 would make great team
players but you have to be able to get on the team first.==
If they game with friends, they are already team players, and already on a team. You are thinking of skills in terms of school skills. Stop. Deschool.
Jo Isaac, PhD
Scientific Writer and Researcher: http://joisaac.wordpress.com
Sent: 26 July 2017 13:07:55
To: [email protected]
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Not seeing basic skill development
I’ve been thinking of writing this post for months but have put it off as I’m not even sure how to articulate what I’ve been feeling besides the fact that it’s a painful post to write. I’ve been having a lot of anxiety lately, almost on a daily basis so I really need to get some advice from this forum. I should have never waited this long.
I’ve written to this forum before. I have 3 children ages 13, 13 and 16. They have always been unschooled. We live in Germany and due to an agreement between Germany and the military, we are able to unschool.
I’m very grateful to have found unschooling long ago. It changed our lives. I'm certain if I hadn't have found it, my kids lives wouldn't have been as wonderful as I believe they have been.
My 13 year old son came downstairs one night and said his online friend from Ireland was scared because it was thundering and lightening and his parents were asleep but he knew my son would be the only one up that late so he reached out to him. My son told me he played with him until he finally heard him snoring through the PS4. This same son's archery instructor told me the other day that he wanted him to be his assistant in the upcoming class because he was good and because he listened so well. I’ve never used punishments except for a brief time with my oldest right before I found unschooling which was when he was 3 or so. It was because of all the posts I’ve read from this forum and others that helped me in my relationship with my children. I could tell many, many stories similar to this about their kindness and gentle behavior. I think there is a real possibility that the outcome could have been much different and to their detriment if they had attended school.
It is because of their kind and sweet nature that I have put off writing this post because I absolutely hate the way in which I have been seeing them for some time. To put it bluntly, my kids don’t appear to be very smart. I know that isn’t a kind thing to say but for the sake of discussion, I don’t think I should sugarcoat it.
My 2 sons are obviously dyslexic and neither of them can spell. We did one of those escape games together a few weeks ago and my husband asked my oldest to write some numbers on the dry erase board and he painstakingly wrote them and kept erasing like he couldn’t picture the numbers in his head. I think he wrote a couple backwards. He’s 16 years old.
About 3 months ago, my husband accidentally found an email up on the main computer that my 13 year old son had written sending encouraging thoughts to his 15 year old friend who was assisting with his tennis instruction because she didn’t make some other team and I couldn’t even enjoy that sweet moment because all I could see was the glaring spelling mistakes. He wrote wood for would several times, chants for chance and many others. I’ll admit that I was embarrassed. My older son isn’t much better. He will text me from upstairs and ask sometimes if he can have his allowance early and he has spelled it every way but the correct way. I’ve told him how to spell it and he still spells it wrong. Once in a while he will get it right.
None of them can write by hand. I do realize that there isn’t much handwriting required now but for example, I took Raleigh to the teen center and he had to sign in. It also required a cell phone #. I wrote the phone # myself because he is unable to do so and he writes his numbers backwards too. I hold my breath hoping that they won’t be handed a form to fill out or asked to write something down when I’m not there. He doesn’t even know how to spell his middle name or knows the days of the week. I’m not sure he knows the months either. Every day he asks me if he has anything tomorrow. Any suggestion regarding a calendar or any other way he might be reminded, is met with disinterest.
Another example was when Raleigh went to the sink and announced it was “floody” his word for stopped up. I told him to turn the drain. Hunter came up to me as I was standing outside the bathroom and wanted to know if his blanket had been washed yet and he was standing 3 feet away from the washer and dryer. It never occurred to him to turn around and look. I know these are minor examples but both boys do things like this quite frequently. If they were isolated incidents, I wouldn't worry about it. It’s as if they can’t figure out the next step like there is some disconnect. Many times, they will stand around awaiting instruction for me on what to do. It's very hard to explain. My oldest does some odd things too like bringing water little by little over to a pot instead of bringing the pot to the sink and filling it with water. I gave him a paper towel to dry something off and he squished it up and dabbed at the water instead of just drying it off like someone else would most likely do. If I give more than one instruction at a time, both will get upset so I’ve learned not to do that. They can’t seem to process more than one thing at a time.
They don’t seem to know or understand what I would consider pretty basic things for their age. Their vocabulary is very basic. It’s as if I’ve had them locked in their rooms all their life with little access to the outside world. Since they were small, I’ve always brought interesting things in the house with lots of books, crafts, games, etc. I've always had bookshelves full of different things in which they have shown little interest. They have probably traveled close to 2 dozen countries and 4 continents. We just got back from Mallorca and my 13 year old son said where did we go again? He asked me 3 times. He kept saying Morocco where we went a couple of years ago.
I have many facebook friends that are now discussing their children going to college and I sit on the other side of the computer and realize mine couldn’t pass a 3rd grade test. I’m serious about that. Frankly, I’m scared about the future, especially my oldest. I want them to have choices. If they don't want to go to college, I want it to be because they truly don't want to go and not because they have the skills of a second grader. I'm pretty certain they have no idea what college is even about. I’m acutely aware that I can make it worse by shaming and I admit to doing some of that with my tone of voice. Raleigh was at the store with me a several days ago and I asked him to get me two white onions while I continued shopping. He came back without them saying he didn’t see them. I knew they were there and we went back together and they were there in plain sight where I told him they would be. I said do you not know what an onion is? I don’t say that lightly. I was very frustrated at the time. I might as well have just called him stupid. I was very upset with myself. As I wrote in the beginning, I should have written this much sooner before I allowed my frustration to boil over.
If we play any games like boggle, (I let any word count), it’s painfully obvious that it is a struggle for them to even play. They stick to 3 letter words mostly and then they struggle to write it. I often can't even tell on the paper what they have written. The quick process of thinking of a word and then writing it correctly on a piece of paper with a time limit is too much for them. We haven't played it in a long time.
In the past two years, all 3 have gravitated up to their rooms on their computers. They play ps4, computer games, Netflix and watch a lot of youtube. My oldest Hunter bowls in a bowling league and that is about it. When we were in Mallorca, he counted down the days until he could get back to his room to play on his computer. He said the best thing about the vacation was there was only x days left before he got to go home. He does want to learn the guitar which I’m working on now but the bowling is the extent of his activities. I’ve asked him if there is anything else I could be doing for him and he has said no. The other two are involved in a few activities such as drums, cheerleading, archery, dodgeball, cross country and the twins will go to the teen center on occasion. All 3 like to stay up until 2 or 3 am and sleep half the day away. This causes problems because they pet sit and sometimes we have 4 dogs and I’m constantly having to get on them to take the dogs out and now even feed them. The dogs can’t wait until noon when they get up and they love taking care of them but they will take the dog into their room and keep them there until I have to remind them yet again it’s time to take a dog out. I’ve explained to them about responsibility. They just get engrossed in their games and forget the time and then hear I will soon. Just a minute. I’m in the middle of something. I’m finding this extremely aggravating.
Hunter is very uncomfortable in social settings (identical to his father) and even though he has bowled on the youth league for years, he initiates zero conversation with anyone. If someone speaks to him, it’s mainly one or two word answers. Several months ago, I was taking him to the bowling alley and there were many kids hanging out at the entrance. I said why don’t you go ahead while I get the rest of the stuff out of the car. He said that is okay and I saw him looking at the kids at the entrance. A couple of months ago when we were in Denmark eating out with just my daughter, after the waitress left, she was looking glum and when I asked her what was wrong, she said I hate when people focus on me. I told her waitress does that while taking your order.
I have all these tapes running through my head which I haven’t been able to shut off for some time now. I read on fb my friends talking about college and see pictures of their kids holding up some award or attending a space camp or their latest accomplishment and the anxiety just mounts. I wonder what on earth are my kids going to do? Hunter is perfectly content playing on his computer and when I ask him if there are any other interests, he just smiles and says not really. He really has very little curiosity which again is similar to my husband. I’ve tried to engage him in conversation. If he does talk, he has a habit of saying never mind mid sentence despite the fact that I am listening to him. He often doesn’t finish his sentences and he stutters off and on and I think he gets frustrated he can’t get his words out.
I think of all the interviewing skills I needed to get jobs, my college education and jumping on opportunities as they presented themselves and I’ve managed to allow myself to get very depressed thinking of my kid’s futures. Their personalities are the complete opposite of mine. Of course, the other two are still young but all I see is my son continuing to play games in his room with no social skills or basic skills to eventually achieve independence. There is no initiative at all in even wanting to see what is outside his room.
While I was writing this, Hunter came in my room with the remote to the AC and asked if going up or down made it cooler. It is in Celsius. This seems very basic information to me for a 16 year old not to know. I’m not understanding this at all. I find it really odd. Yet he was able to build his computer with his father with minimal help.
I could add so much more but I wanted to give a good overview of what is fueling my anxiety and I didn’t feel like I could explain it very well if I didn’t give several examples. Yet I know it comes across as a very negative post about my children. I hate not being at peace and feeling anxious which is why I tried to ignore the feelings for so long and put off writing this post. I do see the good in them but nice, kind and gentle kids still need some basic skills in our ever changing world. All 3 would make great team players but you have to be able to get on the team first.
I obviously need a new perspective and how to make changes within myself so that I can help them. I really could use some advice or maybe a lot of advice. I can't even begin to articulate how difficult it was to write this post. Thank you.
Sandra Dodd
Jo wrote: -=-My husband does stuff like that – he just hasn’t been around cooking and kitchens much.-=-
In te early 1980’s before copy machines were very smart, I was working in the admissions and records office at the University of New Mexico and there was about to be a big meeting with a five-page handout. One of the girls from the admissions office rushed in with an armload of papers she had obtained elsewhere, saying “clear off all these desks, hurry!” and pushing people’s stuff around. It wasn’t my office, I was hanging around the donuts and the copier. But I was one of the most efficient paper-movers, paper-folders, and such, of the 30 or so employees, so I was quite curious about what the hell she was planning to do with 80 square feet of flat surface.
She started laying page five down, everywhere. She was going to make 50 piles, to collate these pages. She was going to walk all around that office five times.
Now machines collate, so lots of younger people, or older people who have never had lots of experience with copying or print-shop work might think the same thing.
I went along after her, picking them up, saying “Stop, Lura.”
This was the same Lura of the sausage cookies. I made some of those just last night, for Kirby’s 31st birthday which is Saturday.
Kirby wasn’t born on the paper-logistics day I’m reporting, but the “cookies” (sausage balls) are here:
http://sandradodd.com/sausageballs
And in my fridge, for Saturday.
Lura looked at me and blinked, because she knew if I was undoing her “work” it must be for a good reason.
“Five pages, five piles,” I said, and showed her how to line the five piles up, pull them off and stack,starting with five, four on top of that, three...and when she got to the top page, set that stack aside, and alternate horizontal, vertical, in the pile.
It cannot POSSIBLY have been her first time doing that, but to her, fifty sets equaled fifty piles.
Yet she had a job, and an apartment, and a car.
I turned 64 this week. I got a college degree at the age of 20. I have never memorized one of my license plates. It’s too hard. I can’t remember a phone number across the room. I know NONE of my banking numbers. My husband knows ALL of them—mine, his, all the kids’, what year their cars are, remembers what they paid for them. There are long traditional ballads I remember even when I haven’t sung them for years.
There are things that seem clever or useful but aren’t necessary for life. If I judged everyone else as failures for not being able to read music or harmonize by ear or play recorder, how unfair and goofy would that be? And me? I can’t swim. I’ve never been good at team ball sports of any kind, but I knew ALL the jumprope rhymes and games better than anyone else in elementary school and was great at jump rope, and could turn the rope for others for half an hour without messing up a bit, and without getting tired, because it was music to me.
See what IS good, and think of things your children can do now, with you, to help other people.
http://sandradodd.com/service
Little things. Picking up litter (though there might not be much, in Germany :-) ). Helping strangers or neighbors.
You might want to consider (quietly, privately or with your husband) things that you could, if necessary, do to make money that your grown (when they’re grown) children could help with. Some family business that could employ them and that they could inherit, maybe. That makes more sense in the overall history of the world than fretting about college ever has or will.
Sandra
Sandra Dodd
Jo’s responses were great, but they’re making me want to provide links. :-)
-=-The tendency to introversion or extroversion likely has strong genetic tendencies. Why do you wish for him to be so different to his father? I don’t like social settings – they exhaust me. My son is the same. As a teenager I wouldn’t have initiated conversation with anyone either...and I wouldn’t have liked people looking at me.-=-
http://sandradodd.com/introvert
Sandra Dodd
http://sandradodd.com/karenjames/deschooling
http://unschoolingsupport.com/deschooling/
http://sandradodd.com/deschooling
Jo Isaac
==Jo’s responses were great, but they’re making me want to provide links. :-)==
I did too! But my responses were so long already!
Especially this one:
http://sandradodd.com/intelligences/
Jo Isaac, PhD
Sent: 27 July 2017 02:49
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Not seeing basic skill development
-=-If they game with friends, they are already team players, and already on a team. You are thinking of skills in terms of school skills. Stop. Deschool.-=-
http://sandradodd.com/karenjames/deschooling
http://unschoolingsupport.com/deschooling/
http://sandradodd.com/deschooling
Sandra Dodd
Parents should not be looking for trouble, for negativity, for ways to criticize and condemn their children. That is not gratitude.
Parents who want unschooling to work should be positive, upbeat, hopeful, helpful.
A parent with a child who loves a video game should look at what is wonderful about that. He is physically able to operate the controller or whatever it is (keyboard, wii). He is bright enough to figure out at least part of a game that has aspects that would challenge any player. He has found something that sparks his joy or curiosity. He is playing that game, rather than doing something sad or destructive or negative.
If a child doing something harmless and happy is thwarted by a parent spouting false doom, the parent is the problem.
The game isn't the problem, the parent is the problem.
The child isn't the problem, the parent is the problem.
A parent who is willing to be the problem is more likely to find himself or herself depressed and alone than a parent who is willing to be part of the grateful hopeful postive helpful support the child needs.
That’s my writing, saved at http://sandradodd.com/gratitude/
That page links to other useful pages.
Sandra
Sandra Dodd
Leaning on a truck
This could help with relationships. Don’t use the time and opportunity to lecture or shame or quiz or talk about college.
When two people are doing something side-by-side, like riding in a car (just the two of them) or working a puzzle, if quiet comes, conversation might fill it. And without the self-consciousness of a face to face situation, or “a talk.”
Another thing I thought of is that if the boy who was described a few years ago as possibly developmentally delayed (and being small for age) was a preemie, that can take a LONG time to catch up.
There is an account on my site of a boy I personally knew from the time he was two years old. He was a twin, but was not as old as his sister, who was quick to run, walk, talk, and lots of other things.
He’s in his 30’s now. He became a marine, because his dad had been, and came back safely from Afghanistan several years ago.
To join the marines, he needed to have 15 hours of college credit (because he didn’t have a high school diploma? Or might have needed to anyway?), so he took five classes at the community college.
I don’t know what he’s doing now, but might be fighting forest fires or working at REI. Maybe both; maybe neither. Something involving mountains, I’m pretty sure.
Sandra
semajrak@...
We're having some work done on our house. A crew of three men (likely around twenty years younger than I am) are helping us. When one gentleman (and he really is a gentle young man) heard that we are homeschooling, he said to our son, Ethan, who's fourteen now, "Study hard. You don't want to end up like me." Right away I told the young man that I was sorry anyone had ever led him to believe that his work and his choices weren't valuable. I told him that I really appreciated everything he was doing for us, and greatly respected his skills. I'm not sure he believed me.
Sylvia Woodman
On Thu, Jul 27, 2017 at 2:59 PM, Sandra Dodd Sandra@... [AlwaysLearning] <[email protected]> wrote:sandradodd.com/truck
Leaning on a truck
This could help with relationships. Don’t use the time and opportunity to lecture or shame or quiz or talk about college.
When two people are doing something side-by-side, like riding in a car (just the two of them) or working a puzzle, if quiet comes, conversation might fill it. And without the self-consciousness of a face to face situation, or “a talk.”
Another thing I thought of is that if the boy who was described a few years ago as possibly developmentally delayed (and being small for age) was a preemie, that can take a LONG time to catch up.
There is an account on my site of a boy I personally knew from the time he was two years old. He was a twin, but was not as old as his sister, who was quick to run, walk, talk, and lots of other things.
He’s in his 30’s now. He became a marine, because his dad had been, and came back safely from Afghanistan several years ago.
To join the marines, he needed to have 15 hours of college credit (because he didn’t have a high school diploma? Or might have needed to anyway?), so he took five classes at the community college.
I don’t know what he’s doing now, but might be fighting forest fires or working at REI. Maybe both; maybe neither. Something involving mountains, I’m pretty sure.
Sandra
Eve Kelleher
Sandra Dodd
Deschooling has been mentioned.
Thinking “the skills of a second grader” is something that should have left your mind a long time ago, for unschooling to be working well.
-=-If they don't want to go to college, I want it to be because they truly don't want to go and not because they have the skills of a second grader.-=-
College as a shining beacon is also the carrot school uses to try to get sad dogs to run. Stop.
And between really wanting to go, and being utterly unable for having the skills of a schooled seven-year-old is a vast world of reasons not to go to university these days. The whole formal-education world is a mess and when money gets involved, an unreliable scam.
Think about people you know in your own life who are happy, who have a house that doesn’t leak, who have food to eat, who do not have a university degree.
Think of people who DO have a degree who aren’t working in that field.
Think of people who DO have a degree who ARE working in that field, and who hate that job, and are coming to hate their lives because of it.
Think of people with $100,000 of school debt, at high interest, who didn’t want to go to university but their parents forced or pressured them to do it.
Think of Karen’s construction example: "We're having some work done on our house. A crew of three men (likely around twenty years younger than I am) are helping us. When one gentleman (and he really is a gentle young man) heard that we are homeschooling, he said to our son, Ethan, who's fourteen now, "Study hard. You don't want to end up like me.”
A sweet 30ish-year-old man named Mauro put up a ceiling fan for us at Kirby’s house the other day—Kirby’s birthday-gift request was a ceiling fan with lights. Mauro was competent, intelligent, considerate, and probably making over $30 an hour.
Think of right livlihood. Look it up if you don’t know enough about it to think about it. There are things people need. There are things that benefit society, and individuals. Those are the jobs we should want for our children, not jobs created to justify the sales of questionable medical equipment or jobs importing things that people don’t really need or use, or…. there are a LOT of jobs in the world, and there are good and bad things about most of them, and there are people totally unsuited for various jobs, and others for whom that job would come easily.
This isn’t a list of everything, but it could help any parent whose thinking is starkly, unfairly “university or homelessness.”
http://sandradodd.com/jobs
And speaking of homelessness…. a degree doesn’t always prevent that, and no one’s degree has been able to solve it.
Sandra
Jo Isaac
Sandra said ==Think about people you know in your own life who are
happy, who have a house that doesn’t leak, who have food to eat, who do not have a university degree.==
In the past year, I've been working an ecology job - putting in wildlife cameras to find an endangered species. My University degree allowed me to get that job.
But! I'm working with a team of arborists - they climb the tree, they put the camera in, they do ALL the hard stuff, really. I just walk around and say 'That looks like a good spot.'
Two of the guys grew up in England, like me, and we got to talking about our school lives - like me, they both did poorly at school, we all left school at 16. Then they said 'But look at you now, you've got a PhD'...and I was like, 'Look at YOU now!'
They earn more than every scientist I know, they are never short of work (which is not the case for science in Australia, at the moment), and they LOVE their job! They love climbing and they get to do it all day long!
I had never met an arborist before last year, now I know about 8 of them, it's a fascinating job, with a whole culture around it. And in all honesty, they don't need an ecologist to do that camera job - the arborists are far more qualified to do it all anyway.
Jo
Alex & Brian Polikowsky
>I have two very different kids.
One is outgoing and more social. She participates in 4-H, Girl Scouts, softball, showing cows, basketball, and much more.
She is always in pictures on my facebook doing things, holding trophies , surrounded by friends, and accomplishing things people can relate to.
My son loves to be home, his friends are us, he does very few things outside the home.
For a few years he actually did almost nothing outside the home at all and has no friends other than us.
He is mostly in his room doing his gaming ,
Reading some and on line.
We work hard to stay connected with him. He asks us to come watch him play , we do.
He has interests, we support him.
We spend time with him, we feed him , we give him love and appreciation.
This year he even spent a couple weeks in Japan!! He did come back earlier than he was supposed to but he did have a good experience and really liked his Japanese host family.
That is amazing to go stay on the other side of the world at 14 ! He did it all because he wanted.
Even if he came back earlier!
He is a lot like his dad in some ways and I can totally see it. That is who he is now.
We love and accept him totally.
We ( and I have been writing we but it is me and his dad) have learned to accept him where he is and not try to change or expect him to be someone else.
He is growing up and changing and maturing everyday. He is very loving towards animals, he is a great kid.
At the same time I am seeing my sister and her husband have huge struggles with their son because of school.
Really bad and sad.
It reinforces all I have done until now parenting and unschooling my children.
Pushing them to be and do what school says hey should can be more than detrimental to a child's emotional and mental health, it can really be life threatening.
Stop looking at your kids through school's eyes.
More deschooling is needed in your part.
Look directly at your children without school's lenses.
You have not written one single positive thing about your children .
Start there.
Sit and make a list, to your self, of all the amazing things they do and how great they are. No schooly stuff!
Alex.
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