nada.sheppard@...

I read the portion on Sandra's page (http://sandradodd.com/parentingpeacefully) written by Schuyler Waynforth entitled "Switching Off the Fury".  I'm in the same place she describes:  


"...it was like a switch I could feel turning. I went from calm and in control to *switch* furious in no time at all. And I couldn't figure out how to not turn the switch on, to make the switch a thoughtful process."

This is where I'm at right now.  I am struggling to find that peace, that calm and in control of the wild fury that can be triggered by little things that I know are just part of them being children.  But after four years of the anxiety and frustration, I finally started taking zoloft last year and that has helped immensely, but eventually i would like to be off of it and find ways to be that naturally calm, peaceful and empathic mother that I want to be for my children.  


Any suggestions and personal stories would be greatly appreciated.

Sandra Dodd

I’m quoting the original post, because it’s been a few days.

-=-I read the portion on Sandra's page (http://sandradodd.com/parentingpeacefully) written by Schuyler Waynforth entitled "Switching Off the Fury". I'm in the same place she describes:

"...it was like a switch I could feel turning. I went from calm and in control to *switch* furious in no time at all. And I couldn't figure out how to not turn the switch on, to make the switch a thoughtful process."

This is where I'm at right now. I am struggling to find that peace, that calm and in control of the wild fury that can be triggered by little things that I know are just part of them being children. But after four years of the anxiety and frustration, I finally started taking zoloft last year and that has helped immensely, but eventually i would like to be off of it and find ways to be that naturally calm, peaceful and empathic mother that I want to be for my children.
____________________________________

I was really busy the day that came—it was my husband’s 60th birthday and we were having a big party. I had assumed someone would respond. :-)

Let me say why, though, it might not have received a response. The same page where you read your problem was the page that people would have probably recommended for you to find your answer.

“Struggling to find peace” is struggling. It’s negative.
Beginning to make conscious choices to be the way you want to be is positive.

-=-, I finally started taking zoloft last year and that has helped immensely, but eventually i would like to be off of it and find ways to be that naturally calm, peaceful and empathic mother that I want to be for my children. -=-

Anti-depressants can help when people have become very sludgy from depression. They can help thoughts to flow again, But it sounds like you want to wait until you’re off zoloft to find ways to be more peaceful. That’s not any good for you or the children.

Go back to the page you linked and read all of it, slowly, little bit by little bit.
Read a little, try a little, wait a while, watch.

http://sandradodd.com/parentingpeacefully

This is why “struggling to fine peace” is more negative than positive:

http://sandradodd.com/battle

Sandra

Sylvia Woodman

I hesitated to respond because I'm not so sure that everyone should be so eager to go off antidepressants.  If the best way to be more peaceful and calm with your children is with aid of medication, then maybe think in terms of planning to go off them when your children are grown.  Don't gamble with your children's childhood.  If you struggled for years with anxiety and frustration, and medication is now helping, why are you so eager to give that up?

Sylvia


On Sat, Jul 9, 2016 at 11:33 PM, Sandra Dodd Sandra@... [AlwaysLearning] <[email protected]> wrote:
 

I’m quoting the original post, because it’s been a few days.

-=-I read the portion on Sandra's page (http://sandradodd.com/parentingpeacefully) written by Schuyler Waynforth entitled "Switching Off the Fury". I'm in the same place she describes:

"...it was like a switch I could feel turning. I went from calm and in control to *switch* furious in no time at all. And I couldn't figure out how to not turn the switch on, to make the switch a thoughtful process."

This is where I'm at right now. I am struggling to find that peace, that calm and in control of the wild fury that can be triggered by little things that I know are just part of them being children. But after four years of the anxiety and frustration, I finally started taking zoloft last year and that has helped immensely, but eventually i would like to be off of it and find ways to be that naturally calm, peaceful and empathic mother that I want to be for my children.
____________________________________

I was really busy the day that came—it was my husband’s 60th birthday and we were having a big party. I had assumed someone would respond. :-)

Let me say why, though, it might not have received a response. The same page where you read your problem was the page that people would have probably recommended for you to find your answer.

“Struggling to find peace” is struggling. It’s negative.
Beginning to make conscious choices to be the way you want to be is positive.

-=-, I finally started taking zoloft last year and that has helped immensely, but eventually i would like to be off of it and find ways to be that naturally calm, peaceful and empathic mother that I want to be for my children. -=-

Anti-depressants can help when people have become very sludgy from depression. They can help thoughts to flow again, But it sounds like you want to wait until you’re off zoloft to find ways to be more peaceful. That’s not any good for you or the children.

Go back to the page you linked and read all of it, slowly, little bit by little bit.
Read a little, try a little, wait a while, watch.

http://sandradodd.com/parentingpeacefully

This is why “struggling to fine peace” is more negative than positive:

http://sandradodd.com/battle

Sandra


Alex & Brian Polikowsky


Last year I was having too much anxiety. The physical type where your body goes on fight or flight and you cannot turn it off.

I talked to my doctor and went on medication. It was wonderful and I wished I had done it sooner.

Sometimes this Spring I went off and was doing great. It was like it reset my body responded. 
I went back on for a month when my house suffered a major water/sewage loss and I started having one anxious day after another. 6 weeks later and I am off of them and doing great.

Some people cannot go on and off and have a harder time starting and stopping. I don't. Those medications work different in everyone.
If anxiety and depression is affecting your everyday life and relationships ( without anxiety I am much more patient) I think you should try.

If I needed to take them forever I would. Why wouldn't I? 
Those a chemical reaction in your brain! 
I did all that was supposed to be good naturally. Exercise, volunteer, friends, meaningful endeavors and  lots of deep breathing .

Thank goodness for meds! I am all for them. It was wonderful for me.
So happy they are there when I need.
You see my mind was peaceful and content and I am a positive person but those dang chemical and  my body , once they activate my fight or flight, think I am in danger and just keep pumping them thinking it will help!

So do what makes your life better, easier and more peaceful! That is what is to be mindful of your body and mind.
Do the rest of the work ,like deep breaths, exercise, etc.....what ever works for you.
If meds work then that is wonderful!


Alex P.

Who is happy meds can  help people be more peaceful and happier.



Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 10, 2016, at 12:26 PM, Sylvia Woodman sylvia057@... [AlwaysLearning] <[email protected]> wrote:

 

I hesitated to respond because I'm not so sure that everyone should be so eager to go off antidepressants.  If the best way to be more peaceful and calm with your children is with aid of medication, then maybe think in terms of planning to go off them when your children are grown.  Don't gamble with your children's childhood.  If you struggled for years with anxiety and frustration, and medication is now helping, why are you so eager to give that up?

Sylvia


On Sat, Jul 9, 2016 at 11:33 PM, Sandra Dodd Sandra@... [AlwaysLearning] <[email protected]> wrote:
 

I’m quoting the original post, because it’s been a few days.

-=-I read the portion on Sandra's page (http://sandradodd.com/parentingpeacefully) written by Schuyler Waynforth entitled "Switching Off the Fury". I'm in the same place she describes:

"...it was like a switch I could feel turning. I went from calm and in control to *switch* furious in no time at all. And I couldn't figure out how to not turn the switch on, to make the switch a thoughtful process."

This is where I'm at right now. I am struggling to find that peace, that calm and in control of the wild fury that can be triggered by little things that I know are just part of them being children. But after four years of the anxiety and frustration, I finally started taking zoloft last year and that has helped immensely, but eventually i would like to be off of it and find ways to be that naturally calm, peaceful and empathic mother that I want to be for my children.
____________________________________

I was really busy the day that came—it was my husband’s 60th birthday and we were having a big party. I had assumed someone would respond. :-)

Let me say why, though, it might not have received a response. The same page where you read your problem was the page that people would have probably recommended for you to find your answer.

“Struggling to find peace” is struggling. It’s negative.
Beginning to make conscious choices to be the way you want to be is positive.

-=-, I finally started taking zoloft last year and that has helped immensely, but eventually i would like to be off of it and find ways to be that naturally calm, peaceful and empathic mother that I want to be for my children. -=-

Anti-depressants can help when people have become very sludgy from depression. They can help thoughts to flow again, But it sounds like you want to wait until you’re off zoloft to find ways to be more peaceful. That’s not any good for you or the children.

Go back to the page you linked and read all of it, slowly, little bit by little bit.
Read a little, try a little, wait a while, watch.

http://sandradodd.com/parentingpeacefully

This is why “struggling to fine peace” is more negative than positive:

http://sandradodd.com/battle

Sandra


Sandra Dodd

-=-
Do the rest of the work ,like deep breaths, exercise, etc.....what ever works for you.
If meds work then that is wonderful!-=-

There are no med that will “work” if the desired result is learning to live better by making ever-better decisions (and more decisions, consciously, throughout each day).

There is no medication that will “fix” depression or anxiety forever, but it can make life better for a while. I think any doctor who prescribes an anti-depressant without requiring that it also be accompanied by counselling or therapy should lose his license, but that’s because I’m looking at what helps people learn to do better, and doctors (in the U.S., who work for HMOs or who deal with insurance companies) are often doing what benefits them or their employers, without so much regard for their patients.

There have been a few times, over the past 25 years, that I’ve taken Prozac for a while WITH COUNSELING when I was frazzled, overwhelmed, or depressed. Not always the same situations. And if I was at the point where I wasn’t thinking clearly and was winding down from really caring, Prozac could help boost my thinking up well enough that I could get traction again.

I have had friends and relatives who took one drug or another and expected to keep their bad habits, their negativity, their cynicism, and that the drugs would somehow fix their lives and make them better, happier people. That wasn’t healthy physically or financially, and those who had kids—it wasn’t helping their children, nor their families, nor their marriages, long term. Some of those friends and relatives didn’t have kids or spouses (or had, and didn’t anymore).

So assuming that the question here is what will help unschooling—the drug might help, but NOT MAGICALLY, and not without changes on the part of the person who wants to learn ways to avoid needing the drugs so much, or so long, in the future.

Sandra

Alex & Brian Polikowsky

I completely agree with what Sandra wrote bellow.

The drugs helped me physically in addition to all the other things I was doing. I had already been moving towards mindfulness. 
I was already making better decisions that led me to peacefulness. I was already stoping and breathing before I reacted, and thinking before I responded.

So when anxiety was triggered it was all physical symptoms. My mind was not going on worried or frantic. I was able to stop and think and take deep breaths . It was the chemicals that kept me physically on fight or flight. 
That the meds helped .

I had always been able to be there for the kids when I had anxiety, but anxiety feels terrible and I wished I had tried the meds earlier.

About 8 or 9 years ago I hit my son , more than once, when I was overwhelmed and reacted.
It was in this group that I learned to stop and think and  a better choice between 2 or 3. So hit or yell? Yell is best ! 
Yell or intervene earlier? Intervene earlier is best!
Stopping and taking deep breaths ! It really helps! 
I made a choice to not hit my child anymore.

Making better choices ! Being mindful! Deep breaths!
I learn that and much more from discussions here.

Also avoiding negativity in any way.
Surrounding myself with positive and kind people.

Making choices that lead to kindness and peace.

Thank you Sandra and all people that have helped me, by writing and sharing here, be a better person ,mother , wife and friend.  

Life is sweeter because of you

Alex P


Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 10, 2016, at 5:19 PM, Sandra Dodd Sandra@... [AlwaysLearning] <[email protected]> wrote:

 

-=-
Do the rest of the work ,like deep breaths, exercise, etc.....what ever works for you.
If meds work then that is wonderful!-=-

There are no med that will “work” if the desired result is learning to live better by making ever-better decisions (and more decisions, consciously, throughout each day).

There is no medication that will “fix” depression or anxiety forever, but it can make life better for a while. I think any doctor who prescribes an anti-depressant without requiring that it also be accompanied by counselling or therapy should lose his license, but that’s because I’m looking at what helps people learn to do better, and doctors (in the U.S., who work for HMOs or who deal with insurance companies) are often doing what benefits them or their employers, without so much regard for their patients.

There have been a few times, over the past 25 years, that I’ve taken Prozac for a while WITH COUNSELING when I was frazzled, overwhelmed, or depressed. Not always the same situations. And if I was at the point where I wasn’t thinking clearly and was winding down from really caring, Prozac could help boost my thinking up well enough that I could get traction again.

I have had friends and relatives who took one drug or another and expected to keep their bad habits, their negativity, their cynicism, and that the drugs would somehow fix their lives and make them better, happier people. That wasn’t healthy physically or financially, and those who had kids—it wasn’t helping their children, nor their families, nor their marriages, long term. Some of those friends and relatives didn’t have kids or spouses (or had, and didn’t anymore).

So assuming that the question here is what will help unschooling—the drug might help, but NOT MAGICALLY, and not without changes on the part of the person who wants to learn ways to avoid needing the drugs so much, or so long, in the future.

Sandra

Hedy

I too have struggled with anxiety and panic attacks (since childhood) and episodically as an adult.  I've learned that  rage and yelling responses are intrinsically connected to my anxiety. My own childhood family was riddled with rage and violence as the default parenting style, so that I've  had to very consciously work to set-up more peaceful defaults in my own psyche and responses. I've noticed over the years that anxiety and feeling overwhelmed are really the sole cause of unclear thinking and falling into anger and frustration responses for me. I'm not always patient still,  though I've come to see it as a daily practice rather than an end-point, to always strive for joy and peace and to regularly work to develop my emotional and verbal vocabulary so that I'm always becoming more peaceful and capable of communicating in clearer ways to both myself and my family, and re-set those unexpected defaults in myself.  

A few things that really help me: 

-Like  becoming able, in my 40's, to keep my car clean, keep my closet somewhat organized, I look at becoming a more peaceful, joyful parent, partner, parent, and person as a practice rather than a goal. This helps me focus more on the progress than the missteps and mistakes. In many Always Learning threads over the years, the idea of noticing a difficult moment as opposed to coining a whole day as difficult has really allowed me to forgive myself in moments of faltering and more easily able to access and implement the idea that I can still make different and repairing choices even in the very next moment. I notice that my vocabulary and skill set grows every day, week, and year, and trust that eventually it will be something I fully and always access as default---because it's what I want and value deeply for myself and family and so it is becoming. 

-A huge booster for me is to read something everyday that helps me stay on-course with my desire for peaceful and joyful living and parenting, and find new perspectives and approaches in line with my desire.  I find that even just a little bit keeps me conscientious, inspired and more confident. Often, it's just reading that days Always Learning thread, or one of Sandra's subject compilations for a few minutes   The daily reminders are crucial for me and over time my resources have grown tremendously and transformed my parenting, especially in challenging moments. 

-Learning to forgive myself when I transgress and always saying I'm sorry when I do, keeps me humble and accountable, more at peace with myself, and actually more able to move on to the next better choice or moment. It also sends a regular message to my son that it's okay to make mistakes and instead focus on repair rather than fall into stifling regret and despair. 

-I strive to be a "good enough" mother rather than the best, or a perfect one. 

-This may or may not be pertinent to others, but for  me,  hormone cycles are a prime cause of my anxiety so much that I know exactly where I'm at in my cycle based on my anxiety levels: during ovulation and pre-menstruation are high-anxiety times for me so I've learned to track my cycle and prepare myself for those feelings with self-talk and encouragement and just moving a bit more carefully and gently those days. 

-A few books that have really helped me:

"Rage, A Step-by-Step Guide to Overcoming Explosive Anger" by Ronald T. Potter-Effron 

He explains the different parts of the brain responsible for anger and anxiety--the amygdala--and offers strategies to better access the frontal lobe, responsible for clear more mature thinking and communication, amidst other strategies. 

"What to do When You Worry Too Much: A Kid's Guide to Overcoming Anxiety" by Dawn Huebner, PhD. 

 I bought this book to help my son last year when he was having debilitating daily anxiety after confronting an unexpected episode to do with an ongoing medical condition he has. We read it together and it completely transformed his anxiety almost overnight. It also helped me tremendously as an also anxious parent and it's an accessible quick easy read. 
 
And, 

"The Whole Brain Child"  by Dan Siegel
I'm still reading this one, but it's a great resource for developing peaceful approaches to parenting and communication, skills to help you and your child emotionally regulate, and a layman's explanation of child's brain development and the impacts of un-thoughtful parenting and communication. It's full of good strategies and reminders. 

And finally, I personally tried ssri's years ago before I was a parent. It helped a little, but not in any life-changing way, though clearly for many it does. For me it has been more a matter of developing skills, emotional intelligence and an adequate vocabulary and "pause" points like breathing, taking a moment, self-talk and clarity over time and gradually amassing them to feel and be better everyday. Without those skills and clarity, the meds just kept the anxious feelings somewhat at bay, but still left me having erratic responses and feeling ill-equipped to be the person I wanted to be.  Another non-SSRI supplement that has helped me much more even than ssri's to take the edge off is the Chinese medicine Xiao Yao Wan, translates to "Free and Easy Wanderer" most acupuncture clinics and some co-ops carry it and it doesn't need to be taken regularly but helps many folks who suffer from anxiety. 

Thanks again Sandra for running this group and to all the unschoolers on here who've shared. This group is a vital daily resource for me and integral in my becoming the unschooling parent I want to be. 

Regards,
Hedy 



sukaynalabboun@...

Agreed and was thinking to post something similar. Reading here and living with principles and choices are what actually helped me go off of Ciprolex. I really needed to find ways of relaxing and processing life which led to peace- or more peaceful- outcomes. 

Embracing and working at radically unschooling, really working on changing the dynamics for our family, ultimately gave me better tools for coping with things not seemingly related to unschooling or kids. That in turn helped me to be a much better, sweeter, more loving,patient and understanding wife, mother, friend, pet owner....it really changed me from an anxious worrier to a calmer, easier soul. 

The meds are no longer needed because I worked on myself when I still needed them to make day-to-day life bearable. There are no quick fixes. Real life requires real investment.

The good news is that usually, it does pay off in ways unimagined and everyone benefits from doing better.



On Jul 11, 2016, at 1:19 AM, Sandra Dodd Sandra@... [AlwaysLearning] <[email protected]> wrote:

-=-
Do the rest of the work ,like deep breaths, exercise, etc.....what ever works for you.
If meds work then that is wonderful!-=-

There are no med that will “work” if the desired result is learning to live better by making ever-better decisions (and more decisions, consciously, throughout each day).  

There is no medication that will “fix” depression or anxiety forever, but it can make life better for a while.  I think any doctor who prescribes an anti-depressant without requiring that it also be accompanied by counselling or therapy should lose his license, but that’s because I’m looking at what helps people learn to do better, and doctors (in the U.S., who work for HMOs or who deal with insurance companies) are often doing what benefits them or their employers, without so much regard for their patients.

There have been a few times, over the past 25 years, that I’ve taken Prozac for a while WITH COUNSELING when I was frazzled, overwhelmed, or depressed.  Not always the same situations.  And if I was at the point where I wasn’t thinking clearly and was winding down from really caring, Prozac could help boost my thinking up well enough that I could get traction again.

I have had friends and relatives who took one drug or another and expected to keep their bad habits, their negativity, their cynicism, and that the drugs would somehow fix their lives and make them better, happier people.  That wasn’t healthy physically or financially, and those who had kids—it wasn’t helping their children, nor their families, nor their marriages, long term.  Some of those friends and relatives didn’t have kids or spouses (or had, and didn’t anymore).

So assuming that the question here is what will help unschooling—the drug  might help, but NOT MAGICALLY, and not without changes on the part of the person who wants to learn ways to avoid needing the drugs so much, or so long, in the future.

Sandra

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Posted by: Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...>
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Sandra Dodd

-=-Embracing and working at radically unschooling, really working on changing the dynamics for our family, ultimately gave me better tools for coping with things not seemingly related to unschooling or kids. That in turn helped me to be a much better, sweeter, more loving,patient and understanding wife, mother, friend, pet owner....it really changed me from an anxious worrier to a calmer, easier soul. -=-

Beautifully put.

Better unschoolers find themselves becoming better people. I didn’t expect that, years ago, when I was helping people unschool, but now 25 years after Kirby didn’t go to kindergarten, I have seen it hundreds of times—lives unfolding in all directions toward peace and contentment.

I’ve also seen a few dozen cases where people absolutely balked at any suggestion that there was such a thing as “better,” and clung to the idea that pessimism and cynicism were healthy and a mark of intelligence. Most of them divorced or put their kids back in school (or both), and some of them limped through all their years of unschooling with their cynicism still pouring out, but their children weren’t as relaxed, weren’t as whole and bright-eyed, as they might have been othewise.

This is the big surprise prize: "better tools for coping with things not seemingly related to unschooling or kids.”

Sandra

Nicole Rod

I recently went back on Prozac after a six month hiatus, and I've been in counseling for years. I've finally accepted the fact that, for me, this is a life-long reality if I am to be the kind of parent and person I want to be. I had a mental block around taking meds, but my reality is that I have to take them if my family and I are going to live well. For me, they make the difference between everything being a great big deal and being able to breathe and handle even big things calmly and kindly. 





--
Nicole

Sandra Dodd

-=- for me, this is a life-long reality if I am to be the kind of parent and person I want to be. -=-

I don’t know how old you are, but if you have young children and your full hormones, there will be changes coming before your “life long” plays out. There have been changes in your mind and body before, and there will be more.

-=-my reality is that I have to take them if my family and I are going to live well-=-

I can’t let a “have to” like that go by without comment.
If you CHOOSE to take them, that is a world away from the powerless smallness of “I have to take them.”

-=-I've been in counseling for years-=-

If the counselor’s suggestions were way bigger and better than the ideas that make unschooling work, you have a great counselor!

Many people pay money to spend time away from their kids hearing things that aren’t all that hepful. A fair number of people have discovered they can save that time and money (and avoid future depressing and malaise) by becoming really great unschoolers.

http://sandradodd.com/principles/
(the links on the lift, Pam Sorooshian’s list of principles is good. (It might not be THE list, but it's a list—I don’t think people need “a list” but it’s good to use it as a kind of shopping list to find a few for you to work on.)

Read a little, TRY A LITTLE
Wait a while, watch.

Reading *about* unschooling is like reading a cookbook but never cooking, or looking at patterns, but never sewing.

By unschooling, and by improving that, you might find that your assertion of “my whole life” will be something you look back on as a fleeting belief.

Sandra