Nicole Taylor

Hello there. New to unschooling. I have tons of questions, but I will limit this email to just a logistical question. I've read everything I can get my hands on about unschooling. Sandra's page, John Holt, Dr. Peter Gray, John Taylor Gatto, and every blog I can. The area I am struggling with currently is screen time and games. We have 7 children. 6 of them are old enough for video games or devices. (One of them is just 2) We don't have enough games or devices for everyone to play at the same time or even all play together. Fighting happens, or the children without a device simply sit and watch the one with a device or a game and just wait. Someone won't give up the device, the battery is dead, someone didn't get a turn today....it goes on. I understand the concept of letting it be a choice during the day, just another choice like a book or crayon. We were so strict before that now everyone wants to play. I understand that too. 

Long story short, too late, how do I let the games and screens be a choice, when there isn't enough for everyone? They are still scarce resources here. Every blog and web page that I have read about games only addresses families that have 1-3 children. I have yet to find a larger family that deals with this issue. Most larger families are strict about school and screen time.(we are coming out of that) 


I guess I don't know how to do this without limiting times and turn taking. I need some help to think outside of my box. 

Nikki T

Mom to son-13, son-11, son-9, son-7, daughter-6, daughter-4, son-2

Tam Palmer

"how do I let the games and screens be a choice, when there isn't enough for everyone?"

The best thing you can do is try and get more :) If it was a shortage of books in relation to how much they were interested would you find a way to access more? Or science experiments? Try freegle, and eBay, and charity shops/thrift stores. You can pick up older model consoles for very little on eBay, and non-flatscreen TVs are given away almost daily on our local freegle, it's worth looking.

It would also help to stop using the term screen time, and refer directly to what they're doing, as this could help you see the actual interest and the importance of it to them. Thinking of it all as screen time is a big step away from seeing the individual things directly :) http://sandradodd.com/screentime/

Don't assume the two year old won't be interested, she might be! I know mine loves various games on her tablet and some on my phone, and really enjoys netflix and youtube too :)

Tam



Sent from my iPhone

On 4 Feb 2015, at 17:02, Nicole Taylor ntmom3@... [AlwaysLearning] <[email protected]> wrote:

how do I let the games and screens be a choice, when there isn't enough for everyone?

Kirsty Harriman

Screentime? Which devices do you mean by this specifically? 

We have four children aged 9, 7, 5 and just 3. We have one pc, two ipods and my phone (!) And one tv. No games console yet (finances). We were planning to buy ipads but now it's two laptops, one each for our eldest. We have been unschooling for a year now and mostly this has been enough (pc, tv were extremely limited before so anything was lapped up voraciously). It's only just recently our eldest daughter had asked for her own laptop because she wants to do  something when someone else is on the computer.  Lately, especially with minecraft, I have suggested one hour at a time so that everyone gets a turn... When the number of people far outweighs the number of devices I feel some sort of turn taking can be helpful.  Our girls know there are plans to help meet their desire to do minecraft or search online or watch YouTube videos or whatever when we can afford it. They feel heard and validated (as in we don't say, no this is all there is or is ever going to be) and that helps. 


Sent from my Samsung GALAXY Note3 on the Telstra 4G network


-------- Original message --------
From: "Nicole Taylor ntmom3@... [AlwaysLearning]"
Date:05/02/2015 3:02 AM (GMT+10:00)
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Gaming and Screen Time

 

Hello there. New to unschooling. I have tons of questions, but I will limit this email to just a logistical question. I've read everything I can get my hands on about unschooling. Sandra's page, John Holt, Dr. Peter Gray, John Taylor Gatto, and every blog I can. The area I am struggling with currently is screen time and games. We have 7 children. 6 of them are old enough for video games or devices. (One of them is just 2) We don't have enough games or devices for everyone to play at the same time or even all play together. Fighting happens, or the children without a device simply sit and watch the one with a device or a game and just wait. Someone won't give up the device, the battery is dead, someone didn't get a turn today....it goes on. I understand the concept of letting it be a choice during the day, just another choice like a book or crayon. We were so strict before that now everyone wants to play. I understand that too. 

Long story short, too late, how do I let the games and screens be a choice, when there isn't enough for everyone? They are still scarce resources here. Every blog and web page that I have read about games only addresses families that have 1-3 children. I have yet to find a larger family that deals with this issue. Most larger families are strict about school and screen time.(we are coming out of that) 


I guess I don't know how to do this without limiting times and turn taking. I need some help to think outside of my box. 

Nikki T

Mom to son-13, son-11, son-9, son-7, daughter-6, daughter-4, son-2


Ali Zeljo

<I guess I don't know how to do this without limiting times and turn taking. I need some help to think outside of my box. >

It's going to take a while for your kids to believe there will not be limits (maybe even years for the older ones).

Build up their trust by demonstrating a big effort to make it work for them. Think creatively about ways to acquire more options for them. Let them know if you need time to save up, and then follow through and actually buy a couple things as soon as you can. Get their advice about what would be best and most interesting for them. Look for used gaming consoles, and search for cheap deals on tablets together.

If money is very limited, help your older kids brainstorm ways they can make money. My kids do dog-walking for people who are gone all day. This has led to pet-sitting jobs that pay pretty well!

For right now while you don't have enough to go around, ask them to help you figure out what is a satisfying chunk of time for length of turns. Partner with them instead of laying down a rule about turn-taking. Help the ones who are waiting their turn to find other fun things to do. Suggest interesting movies that many can watch together, serve fun snacks and be excited with them!

Warmly,
Ali

BRIAN POLIKOWSKY

I agree to try to get more!

Tons of Free TVs everyday on my local Craigslist.  Flat but big ones that are not HD but that is what I have.

Cannot afford and Ipad, go with awesome tablets as low as $100 ( some even less) >
Get used.

 Laptops that will allow for gaming  NEW go as low as $400 . Sure you have to know what will work for gaming but  I can help with that and websites that can help you find one in your budget or check used ones to see if they would work>


 Regular Wii gaming consoles and Nintendo DS and DSi go for under $100 dollars and many libraries carry games you can borrow!

Making it a priority  is important.

 I just spent a month sharing my laptop with my daughter and we did good but it would have been very hard for my son to share now ( he did share a computer with me for so many years and now he built a gaming one over a year ago)


My sister kept her kids with one computer and one gaming console for a few years. I kept telling her to just give them another one, Once she did their home was much more peaceful and the kids got along much better. She tells me now she should have done it  when I told her too.

She gave them cheap tablets and they work just fine and the kids are very very happy with it too  so no need for expensive iPads. You can always get better ones later!


 
Alex Polikowsky
 
 
 


On Wednesday, February 4, 2015 7:30 PM, "Tam Palmer wifejuliefish@... [AlwaysLearning]" <[email protected]> wrote:


 
"how do I let the games and screens be a choice, when there isn't enough for everyone?"

The best thing you can do is try and get more :) If it was a shortage of books in relation to how much they were interested would you find a way to access more? Or science experiments? Try freegle, and eBay, and charity shops/thrift stores. You can pick up older model consoles for very little on eBay, and non-flatscreen TVs are given away almost daily on our local freegle, it's worth looking.

It would also help to stop using the term screen time, and refer directly to what they're doing, as this could help you see the actual interest and the importance of it to them. Thinking of it all as screen time is a big step away from seeing the individual things directly :) http://sandradodd.com/screentime/

Don't assume the two year old won't be interested, she might be! I know mine loves various games on her tablet and some on my phone, and really enjoys netflix and youtube too :)

Tam



Sent from my iPhone

On 4 Feb 2015, at 17:02, Nicole Taylor ntmom3@... [AlwaysLearning] <[email protected]> wrote:

how do I let the games and screens be a choice, when there isn't enough for everyone?



tania

I just bought a tablet (from 2011) with a pretty big screen and super
long battery for only 50 euro. My two year old can turn it on and start
movies all by himself - what a joy for him! Since we have it he is
rarely watching one full show - he is too happy changing movies all the
time :-) (and he mainly loves the opening music..).


My boys (2 and 6) like to watch different things in the same room and
both without headphones. So they have free access to the shows the other
one is watching and with more options now they watch more often and
especially more happily together.

Sandra Dodd

If you were using a curriculum, it would cost a lot of time and money. Unschooling will not, but you could consider more equipment an expense of the educational method you have chosen.
http://sandradodd.com/unschoolingcost

Greg and Kirsty Harriman

just getting more devices isn’t always straightforward! And not just because of your bank balance!
 
With the laptops we are going to buy, our eldest is extremely particular about exactly what she wants... a refurbished 13 inch Macbook Air from the Apple shop (not just any old place that sells reburbished stuff) (and we know what they cost... it will take the best part of 3-6 months to save for one at least – one of those is a lot of money for us). She does not want a cheap $400 laptop, nor even a refurbished from any other store than Apple.... she knows what she wants and we respect that. It just means saving and waiting.. so that means sharing for a lot longer than she would like to.. but that’s the choice and there it is.
 
Now, I could go on and on until the cows come home about all the logical practical arguments for buying second hand and how they work just the same, etc etc...  Nope, she wants an Apple that you can make all pretty (as seen on Seven Super Girls who live in a lot flashier places than us). Once she’s made up her mind I can’t change it.
 
So, yes, you could go out and access technology cheaply, and for most kids that’s cool. But not all kids. Some kids do lots of research and decide just what they want and some have expensive tastes (it seems). With access to research on our PC our daughter has access to all that’s available. We have also experienced cheap no-name type tablets and they’re very poor. The apps fell off, and eventually just broke within a year. I would spend the money and buy brand name technology now – but that’s obviously open for debate.
 
Just throwing that in as that is the process we are currently in. We have intentions to buy more so that’s all good with everyone... it’s the particulars of the “more” that is more involved than at first thought.
 
Our son however would be more than happy with a refurbished ipad to do what he wants to do.
 
Sent: Thursday, February 5, 2015 9:32 AM
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Gaming and Screen Time
 
 

"how do I let the games and screens be a choice, when there isn't enough for everyone?"
 
The best thing you can do is try and get more :) If it was a shortage of books in relation to how much they were interested would you find a way to access more? Or science experiments? Try freegle, and eBay, and charity shops/thrift stores. You can pick up older model consoles for very little on eBay, and non-flatscreen TVs are given away almost daily on our local freegle, it's worth looking.
 
It would also help to stop using the term screen time, and refer directly to what they're doing, as this could help you see the actual interest and the importance of it to them. Thinking of it all as screen time is a big step away from seeing the individual things directly :) http://sandradodd.com/screentime/
 
Don't assume the two year old won't be interested, she might be! I know mine loves various games on her tablet and some on my phone, and really enjoys netflix and youtube too :)
 
Tam
 


Sent from my iPhone

On 4 Feb 2015, at 17:02, Nicole Taylor ntmom3@... [AlwaysLearning] <[email protected]> wrote:

how do I let the games and screens be a choice, when there isn't enough for everyone?

BRIAN POLIKOWSKY

If she wants that special Apple computer than work with her to save money and make money>

My son has saved for his PS3 and his gaming computer. But while he was waiting he gamed in an old old desktop that I upgraded as much as we could. I learned so much by doing that  and now I can fix, build and upgrade computer and have an above average knowledge of how everything works , specially for gaming.

My son  saved money given to him, exchanged gift cards for cash ( mostly I bought them out from him) he sold old toys and things he had he did not want anymore and finally ( with our help for  a big chunk) he had enough money.

I am assuming your daughter is not a gamer if she is asking for that laptop.  Not really a gaming computer  as nice as it is.

 Don't go  thinking $400 dollar laptops and computers are cheap and will break in no time.  They can be pretty decent if you KNOW what you are getting.

The main thing here is working with your child and knowing that having more and providing more is  important. Very important.
Parents will put off having more computers/tablets but would not think about putting off buying more books

This week a wonderful talented man called Monty Oum passes away very young, He was an amazing artist ( animator ) and the creator of one of my favorite Anime shows.

This is a wonderful tribute to Monty and you need to hear what he says  about his passion and to watch a lot of videos, movies , watch .....


http://youtu.be/_465XaHoiGs



 
Alex Polikowsky
 
 
 


On Wednesday, February 4, 2015 9:59 PM, "'Greg and Kirsty Harriman' kgharriman1@... [AlwaysLearning]" <[email protected]> wrote:


 
just getting more devices isn’t always straightforward! And not just because of your bank balance!
 
With the laptops we are going to buy, our eldest is extremely particular about exactly what she wants... a refurbished 13 inch Macbook Air from the Apple shop (not just any old place that sells reburbished stuff) (and we know what they cost... it will take the best part of 3-6 months to save for one at least – one of those is a lot of money for us). She does not want a cheap $400 laptop, nor even a refurbished from any other store than Apple.... she knows what she wants and we respect that. It just means saving and waiting.. so that means sharing for a lot longer than she would like to.. but that’s the choice and there it is.
 
Now, I could go on and on until the cows come home about all the logical practical arguments for buying second hand and how they work just the same, etc etc...  Nope, she wants an Apple that you can make all pretty (as seen on Seven Super Girls who live in a lot flashier places than us). Once she’s made up her mind I can’t change it.
 
So, yes, you could go out and access technology cheaply, and for most kids that’s cool. But not all kids. Some kids do lots of research and decide just what they want and some have expensive tastes (it seems). With access to research on our PC our daughter has access to all that’s available. We have also experienced cheap no-name type tablets and they’re very poor. The apps fell off, and eventually just broke within a year. I would spend the money and buy brand name technology now – but that’s obviously open for debate.
 
Just throwing that in as that is the process we are currently in. We have intentions to buy more so that’s all good with everyone... it’s the particulars of the “more” that is more involved than at first thought.
 
Our son however would be more than happy with a refurbished ipad to do what he wants to do.
 
Sent: Thursday, February 5, 2015 9:32 AM
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Gaming and Screen Time
 
 
"how do I let the games and screens be a choice, when there isn't enough for everyone?"
 
The best thing you can do is try and get more :) If it was a shortage of books in relation to how much they were interested would you find a way to access more? Or science experiments? Try freegle, and eBay, and charity shops/thrift stores. You can pick up older model consoles for very little on eBay, and non-flatscreen TVs are given away almost daily on our local freegle, it's worth looking.
 
It would also help to stop using the term screen time, and refer directly to what they're doing, as this could help you see the actual interest and the importance of it to them. Thinking of it all as screen time is a big step away from seeing the individual things directly :) http://sandradodd.com/screentime/
 
Don't assume the two year old won't be interested, she might be! I know mine loves various games on her tablet and some on my phone, and really enjoys netflix and youtube too :)
 
Tam
 


Sent from my iPhone

On 4 Feb 2015, at 17:02, Nicole Taylor ntmom3@... [AlwaysLearning] <[email protected]> wrote:

how do I let the games and screens be a choice, when there isn't enough for everyone?



Jo Isaac

So sad about Monty Oum, Alex.

And yes - we got Kai a $350 laptop last year, and it's been amazing. It was cheap because it was a discontinued model, it had a dedicated graphics card, and up to now has played all the Steam games, Minecraft, etc with heavy graphics that he's wanted. If you look around, and know what specs you want (processor, graphics  card, etc) you can get amazing deals.

Kai has also saved for things - Christmas and birthday money, sold old toys (with my help), saved his monthly allowance up...

For a household with lots of kids who are currently feeling limited, second-hand Xbox 360's, PS 3's, old-style Wii's are easy to come by and relatively cheap (I understand 'cheap' is different for all families though). Local Facebook buy, sell, swap groups are great for those - a lot of people sell bundles with a console and a pile of games too for pretty cheap. People are giving away the old-style boxy-TV's on facebook and on freecycle all the time.

As others have said - if kids were at school, or you were doing school-at-home, you might be buying loads of expensive uniforms, expensive text-books, curriculums, online subscriptions.....In our home gaming is a priority - we don't have a lot of money, and sometimes we need to wait to buy stuff, but we make the time and effort to research, to shop around, to save, and to figure out how we can get what we want :)

Jo




To: [email protected]
From: [email protected]
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2015 04:30:47 +0000
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Gaming and Screen Time

 

If she wants that special Apple computer than work with her to save money and make money>

My son has saved for his PS3 and his gaming computer. But while he was waiting he gamed in an old old desktop that I upgraded as much as we could. I learned so much by doing that  and now I can fix, build and upgrade computer and have an above average knowledge of how everything works , specially for gaming.

My son  saved money given to him, exchanged gift cards for cash ( mostly I bought them out from him) he sold old toys and things he had he did not want anymore and finally ( with our help for  a big chunk) he had enough money.

I am assuming your daughter is not a gamer if she is asking for that laptop.  Not really a gaming computer  as nice as it is.

 Don't go  thinking $400 dollar laptops and computers are cheap and will break in no time.  They can be pretty decent if you KNOW what you are getting.

The main thing here is working with your child and knowing that having more and providing more is  important. Very important.
Parents will put off having more computers/tablets but would not think about putting off buying more books

This week a wonderful talented man called Monty Oum passes away very young, He was an amazing artist ( animator ) and the creator of one of my favorite Anime shows.

This is a wonderful tribute to Monty and you need to hear what he says  about his passion and to watch a lot of videos, movies , watch .....


http://youtu.be/_465XaHoiGs



 
Alex Polikowsky
 
 
 


On Wednesday, February 4, 2015 9:59 PM, "'Greg and Kirsty Harriman' kgharriman1@... [AlwaysLearning]" <[email protected]> wrote:


 
just getting more devices isn’t always straightforward! And not just because of your bank balance!
 
With the laptops we are going to buy, our eldest is extremely particular about exactly what she wants... a refurbished 13 inch Macbook Air from the Apple shop (not just any old place that sells reburbished stuff) (and we know what they cost... it will take the best part of 3-6 months to save for one at least – one of those is a lot of money for us). She does not want a cheap $400 laptop, nor even a refurbished from any other store than Apple.... she knows what she wants and we respect that. It just means saving and waiting.. so that means sharing for a lot longer than she would like to.. but that’s the choice and there it is.
 
Now, I could go on and on until the cows come home about all the logical practical arguments for buying second hand and how they work just the same, etc etc...  Nope, she wants an Apple that you can make all pretty (as seen on Seven Super Girls who live in a lot flashier places than us). Once she’s made up her mind I can’t change it.
 
So, yes, you could go out and access technology cheaply, and for most kids that’s cool. But not all kids. Some kids do lots of research and decide just what they want and some have expensive tastes (it seems). With access to research on our PC our daughter has access to all that’s available. We have also experienced cheap no-name type tablets and they’re very poor. The apps fell off, and eventually just broke within a year. I would spend the money and buy brand name technology now – but that’s obviously open for debate.
 
Just throwing that in as that is the process we are currently in. We have intentions to buy more so that’s all good with everyone... it’s the particulars of the “more” that is more involved than at first thought.
 
Our son however would be more than happy with a refurbished ipad to do what he wants to do.
 
Sent: Thursday, February 5, 2015 9:32 AM
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Gaming and Screen Time
 
 
"how do I let the games and screens be a choice, when there isn't enough for everyone?"
 
The best thing you can do is try and get more :) If it was a shortage of books in relation to how much they were interested would you find a way to access more? Or science experiments? Try freegle, and eBay, and charity shops/thrift stores. You can pick up older model consoles for very little on eBay, and non-flatscreen TVs are given away almost daily on our local freegle, it's worth looking.
 
It would also help to stop using the term screen time, and refer directly to what they're doing, as this could help you see the actual interest and the importance of it to them. Thinking of it all as screen time is a big step away from seeing the individual things directly :) http://sandradodd.com/screentime/
 
Don't assume the two year old won't be interested, she might be! I know mine loves various games on her tablet and some on my phone, and really enjoys netflix and youtube too :)
 
Tam
 


Sent from my iPhone

On 4 Feb 2015, at 17:02, Nicole Taylor ntmom3@... [AlwaysLearning] <[email protected]> wrote:

how do I let the games and screens be a choice, when there isn't enough for everyone?




anna.black@...

I think it will help if you identify what each of them is interested in doing and go from there.  If it's games, work towards getting other gaming software and hardware.  If it's watching/creating YouTube clips and movies, maybe tablets or something similar would be better.  If it's socialising with other kids online, maybe more laptops would work best.  

Lumping a whole lot of different interests and activities under one 'screentime' banner won't help you to support your children's individual interests.  And it won't help you be creative when thinking about how to meet their needs.  



michelle_m29@...

Add more devices. I know, that sounds way easier said than done, but once I took a look around our house I found more options than I ever realized we had. And then I added a few more.  I've only got four kids, and it's really just the three boys sharing the games. 

At our house, there's a WII attatched to the television in the front room. We had an old, unused television that had moved with us from our last house. One day, it finally clicked that I could plug it in and hook the Super Nintendo console to that. (Somehow, it was really hard to for me to realize that I could have two televisions and game systems hooked up in the same room.) Apps on the Kindle, gaming sites on the laptop, an old Game Boy we bought second hand, then another one from a yard sale because it was bundled with games at a too-good-to-leave-behind price....and a third Game Boy we found in the depths of the Goodwill Outlet bins for thirty-two cents.  I stock up on cheap batteries from the Dollar Tree and keep a few hidden in my purse to avoid emergencies. (The boys are fine with a promise that I'll get more batteries on our next trip into town, but Hubby gets cranky when it's his first day off in forever and there's no way to use the TV remote.) 

For us, it took figuring out what options we had in the house and making sure that all of the kids knew what they were.  There's still some hovering and waiting for turns, but it's not that bad. 

Michelle