Sherry Franklin

I am hoping that the group can help my husband and me work through some feelings we are having.

My son, Finn, age 10, loves to write in his diary.  He uses a notebook.  Yesterday, my husband picked up a notebook and flipped through it to see whether it was used or new so that he might use it.  He came across some pictures that Finn had drawn.  One was a frontal nude picture of a boy, one was of a girl lying on a couch, and the most revealing one was of a male and female "doing it" doggie style with some body parts labeled.  

My husband and I both taught various ages in inner-city schools.  We know that kids are interested in these things starting at this age.  My first reaction was to have my husband talk about it with him.  Mostly we want to know where he has seen this type of sex.  But, after my first reaction I took a breath and decided to wait awhile and think about it before we proceed.  

In the states we lived on a small farm and raised sheep and goats, among other animals.  We now live in Ecuador and are raising goats again.  In Ecuador the stray dogs roam the city and both of my kids have seen the animals coupling.  This was also the first year that they would have remembered that they have seen the goats breed.  As I was driving home last night it dawned on me that maybe that is why he drew the picture doggie-style.  

My husband's concern is that he doesn't want our kid's friend's parents seeing these pictures or hearing the kids discuss it and view our son as "wicked" or something of that nature.  I'm not really sure what they would think, but it is worrying my husband.  

Does anyone have any thoughts on how to proceed?  My son becomes extremely embarrassed if anything of this nature is brought up, especially with me.  I know that he will shut down and I'm not sure what purpose discussing this with him will serve, unless we are able to find out that he saw pictures of this online.  That would concern me.

Thank you for your input.

Sherry

robin.bentley@...

~ My son, Finn, age 10, loves to write in his diary.  He uses a notebook.  Yesterday, my husband picked up a notebook and flipped through it to see whether it was used or new so that he might use it. ~

The first thing I thought about is how a diary is supposed to be private. If he uses just any old notebook and any old notebook is free for anyone to use, then it's not private. Perhaps help him label or identify his personal writings, so that mistake is not made again.

This makes me think about something that happened to me when I was a young teen. I was just starting to become sexually active. I hadn't actually had sex yet, but was thinking about it, giggling about it with my girlfriends. I had a friend who lived on the other side of the country and we wrote each other every week. We liked to play tricks on each other, sometimes to see how we could shock each other. So I wrote a letter saying I was pregnant. I had left a draft of it in my room. My mother decided it was okay for her to read my private writing when she cleaned up my room (like the police find things "in plain sight"). Then all hell broke loose. She got my older sister involved and they alternately cried and interrogated me. I had to swear it wasn't true (and it wasn't). It left me unable to talk about anything to do with sexuality with either of them. I wondered what would have happened if I actually had been pregnant. Holy cow.

I wonder why your husband thinks your son's friends parents would even have the opportunity to see his personal diary? I don't imagine your son is planning to show them. Young boys might talk about sex, imagine what sex is like, but mostly they don't do it around their parents!

It's possible he came across porn online. It could be a good opportunity to address it, but if he resists talking, you could write him a note. My daughter was much more amenable to reading what I had to say, because she could do it in her own time without feeling she was being confronted (then feeling embarrassed).

This page might be helpful in sorting out your feelings and what to do: http://sandradodd.com/sex

Robin B.

 

Sandra@...

-=-My son, Finn, age 10, loves to write in his diary.-=-

That is rare, for a ten year old child, to love to write.
Don't screw it up.

Your husband shouldn't have looked.

What I would do is that I would say "Your dad picked this up casually and looked to see if it was blank, and saw a drawing that made him nervous.  Put it where it can't be found so easily, and be careful what you draw.  Then I woiuld hug him and smile at him and drop it forever.

There are other alternatives that are unlikely to result in his continuing to love to write in his diary.

Sandra


sukaynalabboun@...

I had a similar experience to what Robin described. I was about 12, my mother found my locked, hidden diary and read about what the kids were doing at school, me just beginning to find boys remotely attractive, and how I felt about all of it. It was innocent enough, but she was derisive, condescending and accusatory.
I learned alot about our family, our home that day and where best to place my trust and vulnerabilities in the future. I also promised myself to never be that way with my own kids.
I have three daughters, and the oldest is frequently composing poems and drawings. We also have many, many sketchpads and notebooks out at any time. Just a few days ago, the wind blew a page out, the two youngest picked it up and opened it to see if it was trash,etc. They got the title of a poem about one of our cats and began to giggle and read on. My eldest, the author, was busy in another room. I intervened and reminded them that they value their own privacy, and they would want me to remind others in a similar situation. They closed it and asked her for permission, she said no and they reluctantly tucked it away again, only saying that maybe she should keep private things better hidden...and that was the end of it. 
I really believe that your son knowing you are on his team, you are safe and reliably trustworthy is much more important than getting to the bottom of the images you found. Yes, I would be shocked and concerned as well. I would probably make a mental note to notice what is going on around us more, to look for sources (you mentioned dogs and goats) and make to myself as safe, open and loving as possible for him to ask those awkward things should he ever want to. 

jenna.bergendahl@...

One of the greatest gifts my dad ever gave me was to buy me a lock-box (a small, inexpensive safe that locked with a key) for my diaries. My mom was always looking for them, reading them, and then grounding me for what she read inside of them. I told my dad that I wasn't going to write anymore, and he took me to the hardware store to pick one out. He even spray-painted it pink for me.

15 years later, I'm still keeping a diary. :)

Jorie Denny

I wanted to recommend a really thought provoking book on the subject of children and sexuality. It's called "Harmful to Minors". 
For those interested in this topic, it is a super interesting book with ideas that some consider controversial and I thought it was somewhat inline with unschooling ideas. It's relevant to the subject, but I know that is not the purpose of the original post so I hope it's OK to mention here. If not, pardon the interruption. :) 

Jorie






On Tue, Oct 7, 2014 at 12:14 PM, jenna.bergendahl@... [AlwaysLearning] <[email protected]> wrote:
 

One of the greatest gifts my dad ever gave me was to buy me a lock-box (a small, inexpensive safe that locked with a key) for my diaries. My mom was always looking for them, reading them, and then grounding me for what she read inside of them. I told my dad that I wasn't going to write anymore, and he took me to the hardware store to pick one out. He even spray-painted it pink for me.


15 years later, I'm still keeping a diary. :)


BRIAN POLIKOWSKY

So I went to Amazon to read reviews and some description of the book you posted a link about.

The author says in the book that 12 year old have pleasurable consensual sex and that it is OK?

I do not think so! And the author apparently is not talking about kids exploring with other kids but adults having consensual relationships with kids.

 Just a heads up. 
 
Alex Polikowsky
 
 
 




On Tuesday, October 7, 2014 8:17 PM, "Jorie Denny joriedenny@... [AlwaysLearning]" <[email protected]> wrote:


 
I wanted to recommend a really thought provoking book on the subject of children and sexuality. It's called "Harmful to Minors". 
For those interested in this topic, it is a super interesting book with ideas that some consider controversial and I thought it was somewhat inline with unschooling ideas. It's relevant to the subject, but I know that is not the purpose of the original post so I hope it's OK to mention here. If not, pardon the interruption. :) 

Jorie






On Tue, Oct 7, 2014 at 12:14 PM, jenna.bergendahl@... [AlwaysLearning] <[email protected]> wrote:
 
One of the greatest gifts my dad ever gave me was to buy me a lock-box (a small, inexpensive safe that locked with a key) for my diaries. My mom was always looking for them, reading them, and then grounding me for what she read inside of them. I told my dad that I wasn't going to write anymore, and he took me to the hardware store to pick one out. He even spray-painted it pink for me.

15 years later, I'm still keeping a diary. :)



Sandra Dodd

Should I delete the recommendation from the group so it won't be in the archives? There's no advantage to having recommendations of illegal activities (even if some people want to think it's okay, there's probably not a jurisdiction anywhere that would say "Alright then!").

Sandra

Jorie Denny


I did mention that it was controversial and thought provoking. ;) 
I am not recommending it as a "how to", but an interesting look at this subject. If you read the book, you will see that it is more complex than that. The reason I thought it was "somewhat inline with unschooling ideas" is because it leans toward respecting children and their ability to understand more than most people give them credit for. For instance, the idea was brought up that we, as parents, could be more open with the fact that we have sex. That it is a normal part of a loving marriage and that it should not necessarily be so hidden and treated as taboo. Not having it in front of them , but simply not tippy-toeing around the idea when discussing it. If you are easily offended by controversial ideas then you might want to avoid this book. I just found it fascinating, whether I agreed with everything in it or not. I thought it was worth the read. But then I like things that challenge me to think about my values and why I do what I do. Sometimes because it sparks a change, sometimes because it clarifies the meaning or reason behind my decisions. At any rate, I hope you enjoy the ride. :) 

Jorie

On Wed, Oct 8, 2014 at 4:42 PM, BRIAN POLIKOWSKY polykowholsteins@... [AlwaysLearning] <[email protected]> wrote:
 

So I went to Amazon to read reviews and some description of the book you posted a link about.

The author says in the book that 12 year old have pleasurable consensual sex and that it is OK?

I do not think so! And the author apparently is not talking about kids exploring with other kids but adults having consensual relationships with kids.

 Just a heads up. 
 
Alex Polikowsky
 
 
 




On Tuesday, October 7, 2014 8:17 PM, "Jorie Denny joriedenny@... [AlwaysLearning]" <[email protected]> wrote:


 
I wanted to recommend a really thought provoking book on the subject of children and sexuality. It's called "Harmful to Minors". 
For those interested in this topic, it is a super interesting book with ideas that some consider controversial and I thought it was somewhat inline with unschooling ideas. It's relevant to the subject, but I know that is not the purpose of the original post so I hope it's OK to mention here. If not, pardon the interruption. :) 

Jorie






On Tue, Oct 7, 2014 at 12:14 PM, jenna.bergendahl@... [AlwaysLearning] <[email protected]> wrote:
 
One of the greatest gifts my dad ever gave me was to buy me a lock-box (a small, inexpensive safe that locked with a key) for my diaries. My mom was always looking for them, reading them, and then grounding me for what she read inside of them. I told my dad that I wasn't going to write anymore, and he took me to the hardware store to pick one out. He even spray-painted it pink for me.

15 years later, I'm still keeping a diary. :)




Jorie Denny

I'm sure you will do what seems right for your group. However, the book does not promote pedophilia or any other illegal activities. It's not some weird deviant bible. I figured people could read the reviews (average 4 out of 5 stars) and decide for themselves. So, if you need to remove the recommendation, I understand. Just wanted to clarify. :)  

Thanks,

J

On Wed, Oct 8, 2014 at 6:20 PM, Sandra Dodd Sandra@... [AlwaysLearning] <[email protected]> wrote:
 

Should I delete the recommendation from the group so it won't be in the archives? There's no advantage to having recommendations of illegal activities (even if some people want to think it's okay, there's probably not a jurisdiction anywhere that would say "Alright then!").

Sandra


Sandra Dodd

-=-the book does not promote pedophilia or any other illegal activities-=-

Good!  I feel better.

I grew up around fundamentalist Christians and they are used to distortion and exaggeration.  My aunt did a LOT of work trying to prevent the Colorado Springs school district from having sex ed classes.  Interestingly, though, in reading up to "know the enemy," she became convinced that sex education was GREAT for kids, and in the very same season she had been a volunteer opposing sex ed (this was in the late 1960's), she became a vocal advocate.

So having heard the play-by-play on that, I know for certain that someone can be positive that something is evil without actually having seen it.

And I don't want to read the book, but I do suspect that at least some of any uproar involving anyone's sexuality (or admission that it exists) will likely be fundamentalist Christians.  

That's not a defense of the book.  That's a "beware" sign put up near anything written in the NAYme of GEEZus.

Sandra
former Southern Baptist
sword-drill champion of my church, in those same 1960's
(no swords, just finding a Bible verse and reading it aloud before others can even find it, and I could find you some scalding sex scenes in the Bible, too)

Ali Zeljo

I just read reviews and descriptions and can't find the stuff that Alex talked about.  Actually, after reading the introduction and some of the reviews, I'd like to read the book.  I'll be shocked if the author recommends that 12 year olds should have sex with their parents!!!  Jorie, does it really??

Ali

On Wed, Oct 8, 2014 at 7:20 PM, Sandra Dodd Sandra@... [AlwaysLearning] <[email protected]> wrote:
 

Should I delete the recommendation from the group so it won't be in the archives? There's no advantage to having recommendations of illegal activities (even if some people want to think it's okay, there's probably not a jurisdiction anywhere that would say "Alright then!").

Sandra


BRIAN POLIKOWSKY

There is a big jump from kids knowing their parents have sex  to  thinking an adult having sex with a kid is OK and that kids can chose that.
That is called grooming by a pedophile. Sorry. I did not read the book. It may have some good points but I totally disagree here.

 
Alex Polikowsky
 
 
 


On Wednesday, October 8, 2014 9:31 PM, "Sandra Dodd Sandra@... [AlwaysLearning]" <[email protected]> wrote:


 
-=-the book does not promote pedophilia or any other illegal activities-=-

Good!  I feel better.

I grew up around fundamentalist Christians and they are used to distortion and exaggeration.  My aunt did a LOT of work trying to prevent the Colorado Springs school district from having sex ed classes.  Interestingly, though, in reading up to "know the enemy," she became convinced that sex education was GREAT for kids, and in the very same season she had been a volunteer opposing sex ed (this was in the late 1960's), she became a vocal advocate.

So having heard the play-by-play on that, I know for certain that someone can be positive that something is evil without actually having seen it.

And I don't want to read the book, but I do suspect that at least some of any uproar involving anyone's sexuality (or admission that it exists) will likely be fundamentalist Christians.  

That's not a defense of the book.  That's a "beware" sign put up near anything written in the NAYme of GEEZus.

Sandra
former Southern Baptist
sword-drill champion of my church, in those same 1960's
(no swords, just finding a Bible verse and reading it aloud before others can even find it, and I could find you some scalding sex scenes in the Bible, too)


Sandra Dodd

-=- Sorry. I did not read the book. It may have some good points but I totally disagree here.-=-

Are you sure it says that?
If what you're reading is comments, might they also be people who didn't read the book? 

Seriously—it might be a dangerous book.  But I know personally that someone who didn't own or read my book can be told by someone else to go and leave a bad review.  It  has happened.  

I'm not even talking about the book now.  I'm talking about not judging a book by reactionary reviews.

Sandra

Joyce Fetteroll

The Harmful to Minors book has reviews from Publisher's Weekly and Library Review. It was "nominated for the 2003 Los Angeles Times Book Prize". There's a vetting process for that.The Book Prize page says "Responsibility for nominating books for consideration and for naming both the finalists and the ultimate winners rests solely with nine panels of three judges each."

I don't think a promotion of pedophilia would have slipped by those 3.

One of the reviews says, "At no time did the Doctor advocate, hint to, suggest, or other wise condone adults having sex with children. Where people got the idea the book will be used by pedophiles as a defense of their actions with children is beyond me. Maybe they should read the book first."

The reviews on a book's main page only show a piece of each if they're long. If you click on "5 stars" or "4 star" next to the bar graph that will open up a page with the full reviews. That makes it easier to search for "pedophilia" to see what's said about it. (Note: there are 4 pages of 5 star reviews.) None of the 5 star reviewers that I read sound like pedophiles.

Joyce

BRIAN POLIKOWSKY

I am reacting to a couple reviews that I read. Maybe the book is great.

 Or maybe I have issues with only some of the things the author says.

Like I said I have not read the book. 

I am from Brazil and I do not have body issues and grew up with very open parents.

It was with my mom knowledge that I had my first sexual relationship with a boyfriend. She took me to   the doctor to get birth control and all.

I do not come from a super religious family were sex was wrong, dirty or something just for married couples.

:)
 
Alex Polikowsky
 
 
 


On Thursday, October 9, 2014 5:09 AM, "Joyce Fetteroll jfetteroll@... [AlwaysLearning]" <[email protected]> wrote:


 
The Harmful to Minors book has reviews from Publisher's Weekly and Library Review. It was "nominated for the 2003 Los Angeles Times Book Prize". There's a vetting process for that.The Book Prize page says "Responsibility for nominating books for consideration and for naming both the finalists and the ultimate winners rests solely with nine panels of three judges each."

I don't think a promotion of pedophilia would have slipped by those 3.

One of the reviews says, "At no time did the Doctor advocate, hint to, suggest, or other wise condone adults having sex with children. Where people got the idea the book will be used by pedophiles as a defense of their actions with children is beyond me. Maybe they should read the book first."

The reviews on a book's main page only show a piece of each if they're long. If you click on "5 stars" or "4 star" next to the bar graph that will open up a page with the full reviews. That makes it easier to search for "pedophilia" to see what's said about it. (Note: there are 4 pages of 5 star reviews.) None of the 5 star reviewers that I read sound like pedophiles.

Joyce


Jorie Denny

I'll have to go back and reread what she says about pedophilia, but what I got out of it was not that she was condoning or suggesting that adult child sex is ok but rather that our hysterical reaction to it can be more damaging to the child than the act itself.  Case in point. ;) 

J

On Wed, Oct 8, 2014 at 8:55 PM, Ali Zeljo azeljo@... [AlwaysLearning] <[email protected]> wrote:
 

I just read reviews and descriptions and can't find the stuff that Alex talked about.  Actually, after reading the introduction and some of the reviews, I'd like to read the book.  I'll be shocked if the author recommends that 12 year olds should have sex with their parents!!!  Jorie, does it really??

Ali

On Wed, Oct 8, 2014 at 7:20 PM, Sandra Dodd Sandra@... [AlwaysLearning] <[email protected]> wrote:
 

Should I delete the recommendation from the group so it won't be in the archives? There's no advantage to having recommendations of illegal activities (even if some people want to think it's okay, there's probably not a jurisdiction anywhere that would say "Alright then!").

Sandra



cary.seston@...


Sandra wrote:
What I would do is that I would say "Put it where it can't be found so easily, and be careful what you draw."

Why would a ten year old have to be "careful what you draw?"  What does that mean?  If he drew it in the first place then I think he got something out of drawing it.  So why specifically would he have to "be careful?"  I would think that would be confusing for my 11 year old in that case.  Confusing because he may like what he has drawn and sees nothing "wrong" with it.  And I wouldn't think it a good idea to introduce that drawing sexual pictures is something to be careful of because an adult (dad in this case) doesn't know how to deal with his young son's sexual explorations or curiosity.  

I want my kids to have a good understanding of sex as something natural and normal and pleasurable without having any shame around it.  But I'm definitely at a loss in this area.  Because it is also common and I think appropriately so for one's sexuality to be private.  I want to help my kids understand that drawing or talking about sexual content at age 10,11, 12 maybe older is not looked on favorably by the whole of our society without making them feel shamed about their own blossoming curiosity regarding something (sex) that is innate and beautiful in them.  My oldest is asking questions about it now though.  I'm answering accurately, but only the actual questions without elaboration.  And so far I have also asked, "would you like to know more or anything else right now?"  Usually it's no.  Sex curiosity is in him though and stirring and I don't want him to think he has to "be careful" about all of that. 

Cary    
 
 

Sandra Dodd

-=-Case in point. ;) 
-=-

No child was damaged here, so your "Case in point" comment is unfair and unkind.

-=-I'll have to go back and reread what she says about pedophilia, but what I got out of it was not that she was condoning or suggesting that adult child sex is ok but rather that our hysterical reaction to it can be more damaging to the child than the act itself.  Case in point. ;) -=-

You don't have to go back and reread anything.
You don't "have to."  It's fine not to.

You made your point.  Alex found page numbers and citations, in reviews she read, and so they weren't as hysterically imaginative as I had suggested (so I was unfair too).

People should try to be as calm as they can in any case.

Sandra


Sandra Dodd

-=-Why would a ten year old have to be "careful what you draw?"  What does that mean? -=-

It means before you draw something, consider whatever factors might be appropriate to consider in that particular situation.  It means "be careful."  Take care.

You know what that means. 

Thusfar, the child was NOT careful, and the result could have been (might yet be) bad in ways that could have been avoided had the child been careful.

-=-Why would a ten year old have to be "careful what you draw?"  What does that mean? -=-

A ten year old would NOT "have to."  What I wrote was this:
"What I would do is that I would say "Put it where it can't be found so easily, and be careful what you draw.""

There are kids in therapy because of things they've drawn.  There could conceivably be children taken out of their parents' custody over things they drew.  It doesn't help to pretend that parents can change reality by "being cool."  And some people DO draw things that are frightening indicators of them not being mentally healthy. Or that are evidence of abuse.

-=-  Confusing because he may like what he has drawn and sees nothing "wrong" with it.  And I wouldn't think it a good idea to introduce that drawing sexual pictures is something to be careful of because an adult (dad in this case) doesn't know how to deal with his young son's sexual explorations or curiosity.  -=-

You might not think it's a good idea.  "Wouldn't" is one step away from saying "And I don't think it is a good idea..."  

-=-And I wouldn't think it a good idea to introduce that drawing sexual pictures is something to be careful of because an adult (dad in this case) doesn't know how to deal with his young son's sexual explorations or curiosity.  -=-

You are surely aware that "sexual pictures" get people put in prison, and that "sexual pictures" can cause an adult to be required to register as a sex offender, right?    Some things are not good to put in a graphic form, socially, legally.

Unschooling can change a family's world, but that family does not then change the world outside them—there is no special unschooing world where all other laws and realities dissolve.  http://sandradodd.com/unschoolworld

-=- I want to help my kids understand that drawing or talking about sexual content at age 10,11, 12 maybe older is not looked on favorably by the whole of our society without making them feel shamed about their own blossoming curiosity regarding something (sex) that is innate and beautiful in them.  -=-

"Be careful" wouldn't contradict those ideas you've expressed, I don't think.

-=-  I'm answering accurately, but only the actual questions without elaboration.  And so far I have also asked, "would you like to know more or anything else right now?"  Usually it's no. -=-

Do you ask that about other topics?  If you're talking about the colonial history of Africa, or about spider webs, or how poker odds work, would you say "would you like to know more or anything else right now?"

If they want to know, and if your relationship is good, they will ask.  Fishing for more questions doesn't seem like a good idea to me in general.  I woudln't say "would you like to know more or anything else right now?" to a friend, or to my husband.

-=- If he drew it in the first place then I think he got something out of drawing it.  So why specifically would he have to "be careful?"-=-

Guys who flash strangers get something out of it, but that doesn't make it okay. :-) 
I'm purposely using an extreme case, but the principle is the same.  If something is worrisome and disturbs others' peace, then they probably were insufficiently careful (aware, cautious, courteous, circumspect, private).

-=-Sex curiosity is in him though and stirring and I don't want him to think he has to "be careful" about all of that. -=-

But the fact is he should be careful.  He lives in a town, in a county, in a state, in a country, all within a culture, and there ARE realities and expectations.  That IS part of knowing about sexuality—the fact that it should be private, that there are taboos and laws.  They will need to know about reproductive issues, someday, and responsibility, and diseases that can rin lives.  They will like to know that it can be glorious, sometimes, someday, but they don't need to know all of that at once.

Sandra



Jorie Denny

"Case in point" 

I was not insinuating that children were harmed here.
I was making a connection that the reaction in this group was possibly similar what the author was referring to. It was meant ,in jest, to make that point. I thought that was clear. I didn't find it to be unkind, probably because it was not meant with malice. I will choose my words more wisely in the future. Sincerest apologies to anyone who was hurt or offended by that comment. 

Using the term "have to" was meant to say that I cannot recall, so in order to be accurate, I would need to refresh my memory by rereading that piece. I am fully aware that I do not "have to" do anything. But thanks for that reminder. I usually try very purposely not to use that phrase. :) 

Calmly,
J

On Thu, Oct 9, 2014 at 5:00 PM, Sandra Dodd Sandra@... [AlwaysLearning] <[email protected]> wrote:
 

-=-Case in point. ;) 

-=-

No child was damaged here, so your "Case in point" comment is unfair and unkind.

-=-I'll have to go back and reread what she says about pedophilia, but what I got out of it was not that she was condoning or suggesting that adult child sex is ok but rather that our hysterical reaction to it can be more damaging to the child than the act itself.  Case in point. ;) -=-

You don't have to go back and reread anything.
You don't "have to."  It's fine not to.

You made your point.  Alex found page numbers and citations, in reviews she read, and so they weren't as hysterically imaginative as I had suggested (so I was unfair too).

People should try to be as calm as they can in any case.

Sandra



Sandra Dodd

Perhaps this was a tone-of-voice problem.
Maybe someone assumed I would have said it harshly, or threateningly.  I wouldn't have.


"What I would do is that I would say "Put it where it can't be found so easily, and be careful what you draw.""

It would have been advice about how to avoid confusion and worry and trouble in other members of the family.  It would have been a suggestion for keeping peace, for everyone.

Sandra

Sandra Dodd

-=-I was not insinuating that children were harmed here.
I was making a connection that the reaction in this group was possibly similar what the author was referring to.-=-

You didn't mean to insinuate that, but the phrase doesn't mean "kind of like this."  It means "What is happening here proves what I've just said."  

-=- I will choose my words more wisely in the future. -=-

Always good in any case, but particularly for Always Learning.  Thanks.

-=-Using the term "have to" was meant to say that I cannot recall, so in order to be accurate, I would need to refresh my memory by rereading that piece. I am fully aware that I do not "have to" do anything.-=-

You don't "have to" stop using it here, either, but I will point it out every time anyone does.

-=- But thanks for that reminder. I usually try very purposely not to use that phrase. :) -=-

The point of not using the phrase is to help people not even to think that way.  If you're "trying very purposely," then it hasn't become automatic.  It's not enough, for radical unschooling success, to THINK the bad phrases and then decide not to use them.  The intention is to REALLY be fully aware that you are making choices.  

Sandra