<jsearthmom@...>

I have a couple of questions/stumbling blocks right now. We have been unschooling for nearly 3 years. 


I have recently come through a months-long depression where I was neglectful of my kids. I was physically present and did my best to continue making small better choices, but as I am coming back to my more normal self, I can see some big problems that my limited participation created. 


The first is that life is not sparkly here. It is mostly peaceful and even enjoyable most days, but it isn't sparkly and we all feel it. Adding to that, or maybe as a result of my depression, the kids (9 and 6) are in a period where they don't want to leave the house. We had one activity (open gymnastics) that we maintained each week that both girls enjoyed, but that has now been let go because the oldest says she finds it boring because she doesn't enjoy the company of the other children there. 


I find my offers of trying new things rejected by the kids, usually because they don't want to go out, but also because my oldest doesn't enjoy trying new things- she is uncomfortable with uncertainty and the possibility she will not be good at something. She also gets carsick on most rides over 30 minutes, so she generally declines anything she doesn't already find significantly interesting. This can limit my ability to introduce new fun things to both of them.


The girls' main focus is Minecraft and skyping with other children online, which I also find very fun. I have put my energy into learning enough about servers, mods and game maps to get each their own server, and do my best to maintain them. We only have 2 computers, so I don't get to play along with them very often, but I am nearby to help, to read things, to reload the map, etc. I watch Minecraft videos with them sometimes and, although I have trouble watching more than 20 minutes (due to motion sickness), I can and do frequently watch short clips of the funny parts they want to share. 


These are some of the ways we are reconnecting as I am finding myself again and my mental health improves. But I want to go farther with bringing the sparkle back. And I am unsure how to accomplish this from inside the house. 


The second challenge is that the kids are both night owls. My oldest (9) usually gets tired and goes to bed around 2am, sleeping until about noon. But my little one (6) will frequently stay up all night watching YouTube videos, kissing her dad goodbye in the morning and then heading to sleep at 6 or 7 am, to sleep most of the day. And when they are sleeping for a big part of the day, we aren't connecting and I feel neglectful and lazy. 


When we have actual plans, like when we were going to gymnastics, I can usually help my youngest fall asleep by midnight so she can get up (and feel pretty good) by 9:30am. But often she will argue, wanting to stay up later, when I know she wont let me wake her in the morning if she stays up too late. And this arguing takes place when I am also tired and wanting to head to bed. I frequently revert to the "for your own good" argument for lack of other, better tools and options, and frankly I would rather stay home than fight over going to bed. But I know there are other options, even though right now I cannot see them.


It occurred to me a couple of nights ago that I could transition my sleep cycle to match theirs or come a bit closer, so I am not as tired at midnight; so I can be more present and helpful when they are awake, even at night. But I am somewhat resistant to this change- I cannot yet accept it would be ok for a mom of young children to sleep until noon. Even though I can see this would be more helpful overall, I can feel my resistance and have taken only minimal action toward this goal- setting my morning alarm for 10am instead of 9 so I can sleep a little longer and stay awake and moderately functional until 2am. 


I really connected to something recently posted to the Unschooling Facebook group: "Unschooling is not "whatever you want honey I'll be over here doing my own separate thing I'm sure you'll figure it out." That would be neglect. We need to consistently be providing something better, richer, interesting, more vivid [than] they would be getting in school. It's not up our kids to ask for enrichment. It is up to us to provide it."


That type of neglect is kind of how it feels right now at my house. And the kids' sleep cycle is part of this issue. Because I am awake hours before the children, doing my own thing and then they are alone once I go to bed. I am uncomfortable with how disconnected I feel from them, even though during the hours we are awake together I am actively helping, providing food/snacks, being present. I think it is not enough time- and in part it is the idea of their ages that makes me uncomfortable. If they were teenagers with night owl schedule, I might feel differently (or not) but I am hung up on their young age and my ideas about "good moms" and how this sleep cycle limits our options for activities with other kids and families. 


I would really like some feedback on improving my perspective and on providing vivid, inspiring, sparkly things into our environment. 

Thank you in advance.


(As a footnote, my depression is clinical and chronic and has been under good control for more than 6 years. This was an unusual challenge and I am steadily getting back to normal.)

BRIAN POLIKOWSKY

I think a lot people has the idea that being more sparkly and doing more necessarily means getting out of the house.
Don't get me wrong , going out and seeing things is wondeful!
Now imagine for some reason your child could not really get out of the house for a while.
What could you do to make their lives more sparkly and bring more of the world home?

 So many things comes to mind!
Minecraft paper crafts to play with!
baking and decorating Minecraft style.
making Miecraft crafts
playing pretend Minecraft
Getting a yoga ball for them to sit and play in computers ( I just ordered one this week for my daughter!)
Minecraft plush toys to play with ! Maybe make movies to upload to Youtube

having an indoor garden
trampoline in or out
 a camera for them to make movies
 decorating and painting shirts ( be tie die or other techniques)
wood carving ( Got tools for my son and even my daughter loved it)
Legos! Minecraft legos

When I go outside and I see something cool I bring it in if I can or call my kids to see it!
Birds nests, bugs, rocks you name it!
A bird feeder by the window so you can observe birds
A butterfly catterpillar to feed and watch it morph.
Dance parties!!!!!!
musical instruments to just tinker with

When I find things I bring them
I found a harmonica in a store I bought it and gave to my son,
I saw a dead bird we looked it up.
If you become curious of the world around you and explore and invite your children to join, or not, you can inspire them.
Bring new foods to try and cook from different places in the world. Exotic fruits and veggies and dishes.

Have you read this link:

http://sandradodd.com/strewing
 
Alex Polikowsky
 
 
 


Sandra Dodd

Others will give you ideas about the children, no doubt.  I want to talk about depression.

-=-I have recently come through a months-long depression where I was neglectful of my kids. I was physically present and did my best to continue making small better choices, but as I am coming back to my more normal self, I can see some big problems that my limited participation created. -=-

If your cycle comes with an associated up/energetic/"manic" phase, USE IT!  Be out, go to the zoo, run around, climb, laugh, buy comdey DVDs.  Stockpile memories and happy materials for the next down phase.

To avoid a debilitating depression, stop watching the news.  Don't hang out so much with friend or relatives who complain all the time, or who gossip negatively and spitefully.  Distance yourself from politics that distress you.  Store up joy and hope and optimism.  Have so much that you can produce enough for you AND your family.  In the season when you can't buoy them up, they will last a while longer, and if you have avoided negativity, you might find that with practice (and desire and intent and awareness) that you will be able to feel the depression slow you down, but it won't necessarily take you under the surface.

Do not depend on anti-depressants by themselves.  Every doctor who has EVER given anti-depressents without requiring, insisting that it be  accompanied by therapy is an irresponsible money-maker.  They don't do diddly if the person hasn't learned to watch her thoughts and emotions, and to see it for the temporary, manageable state it is.

Have a backup plan now, before depression has a chance to return.  Find friends or relatives who might be able to take your kids one day a week for an outing or a sleepover or something, so you can sleep.  Sleep helps.

DO NOT, seriously, don't, listen to depressing music.  Don't watch tearjerker movies.   Put those away as though they would harm you, because they will.

When you get older and your kids are big enough to take care of themselves, then if you want to wallow and sink every year or two, go for it.  But you probably won't want to if you can find tools to use to keep you functional and bearable to be around.  There are advantages to that. :-)

Sandra

Clare Kirkpatrick

Sandra, this whole email was so wise and helpful. Has the topic of mothers with depression come up before? I don't want to lose this email.  I'm wondering if you thought about having a page on your site about mothering with depression?

Sent from Samsung Mobile

<kgharriman1@...>

Yes. On depression I have found Sandra's words about avoiding the news, sad movies and sad music to be helpful and came to discover as management strategies in my own life for sake of self preservation. My ability to tolerate these has learned over the years. I cannot engage in any of the above or else I am overwhelmed with big black clouds that I find hard to push away. And yes many years ago when I went through a bout of moderately bad depression (and is something I choose to continually manage) i found anti depressants were needed in conjunction with therapy because I found that the medication enabled me to work on the thinking patterns but without the medication I was unable to be receptive to the strategies.

CASS KOTRBA


-=- The second challenge is that the kids are both night owls. -=-
 
Is it possible that they have migrated to the night time hours as a way of avoiding your depression?  I have no idea, just a thought, but if so maybe some fun and laughter will entice them back to the daytime hours.
 
 -=- But I want to go farther with bringing the sparkle back. And I am unsure how to accomplish this from inside the house. -=-
 
How about if the 3 of you make Valentine's Day boxes together where you can leave each other love notes & surprises (candies, paper crafts - http://pixelpapercraft.com/, http://www.thetoymaker.com/2Toys.html, http://cp.c-ij.com/en/contents/1006/)?  Maybe make one for Dad, too.  You can put stuff in their box for them to find when they wake up and you could invite them to do the same for you.
 
These would be fun as a surprise -  http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=poppin+cookin.   There is a lot of fun in that little box for not much $.  They ship from Japan, though, so they take a month to arrive.  My daughter loves them.
 
Other fun ideas:
oobleck - http://chemistry.about.com/od/chemistryhowtoguide/ht/oobleck.htm  The best part for us is adding in the food coloring and swirling it around to see the beautiful colors and patterns over and over.
 
Recently my son has gone through a period of feeling bored, generally restless & dissatisfied. One of the things we've done is scavange pieces from their swing set, which is buried in snow, and bring them into his room.  We put the rock climbing stuff on the wall (screwed into studs).  I bought a $3 part from the hardware store ( IDK what it's called but it's basically a big screw with a hole at the end of it).  My husband screwed it into a stud in my son's bedroom ceiling and we hung a rope swing from it.  He just loves swinging on that thing!
 
Watch comedy!  Our new favorite show is "Ridiculousness" on MTV.  It's basically funny people showing funny clips of people falling and hurting themselves, for the most part.  But dang it's funny!  My son, hubby and I watch it together & we'll all be rolling.  I find it bonds us to laugh together and also I sleep so much better after a good laugh.  There is a related show called "Fantasy Factory" which is also funny & goes to show that you CAN make a living watching You Tube videos and spending your time doing things you enjoy!
-Cass

Sandra Dodd

I suppose I could put that on a page.

Years ago on a forum I wrote something about happy music instead of sad, comedies instead of dramas. A mom (someone I know and like) jumped in REALLY angry and said that depression was all biochemical and NOTHING could cheer someone up or stave off that depression.

I knew better from personal experience, and from helping friends. I could induce depression in friends [if I wanted to, which I do NOT] with just the right messages I know would break their hearts and spirits, and with some well-chosen (or random) local news broadcasts, and being negative everytime I saw them, and ... I'll stop there lest someone picture it all too clearly and get on the downhill. If they were smart, they would run me off.

Here's something on my site (which I will link on the new page)
https://www.google.com/url?q=http://sandradodd.com/gratitude/health.html

Many of the things we routinely recommend to help unschooling families are also helpful to anyone's mental health and wellbeing. Gratitude, recognizing and appreciating abundance, avoiding negativity...
http://sandradodd.com/gratitude
http://sandradodd.com/abundance
http://sandradodd.com/negativity
http://sandradodd.com/joy

No matter where a person is, a step up is a step up. Happier is happier.

Sandra

Clare Kirkpatrick

"A mom (someone I know and like) jumped in REALLY angry and said that depression was all biochemical and NOTHING could cheer someone up or stave off that depression."

Well, as a mum who has had to learn *a lot* to overcome life-long depression, I know that's untrue. Just because certain biochemical things happen when someone is depressed or anxious, doesn't mean that other biochemical things can't be induced to either over-ride or stop the depressive biochemistry. 

Anything that induces the right biochemicals will help with depression. 

Dwelling on how I couldn't cope is not good but easy to fall into. Feeling like I needed to escape my children created pressure that built until I exploded sometimes. The kind of self-destructive behaviour that comes with depression made me tell myself what a bad mum I was, which, of course, became a self-fulfilling prophecy. I could go on.

My point is that I reversed patterns that were 25+ years old not with drugs (although I needed them to literally survive my worst ever few months) but with doing masses of work examining and changing my thoughts. Therapy can help this but it didn't help me - just made me keep living in the past and dwelling on my illness. But I did positive affirmations, listening to upbeat music, dancing, actively telling myself different stories (ie. Swapping 'I'm dreading today. I need a break' for 'I can't wait to be with my kids today') and doing it even when I didn't feel it and with a smile. All that stuff and others changes your biochemistry. It also doesn't work overnight, od course, but the 'fake it til you make it approach was very powerful for me.

I even pretended I was on a 'how to be a fantastic mother' tv show once...guess what? I spent the whole day being a fantastic mother and loved every minute of it. 


Sent from Samsung Mobile

<tamara@...>

Hi, 


You've got some great suggestions here and I'm glad you posed your question. 


I was feeling a similar way a year or so ago and enlisted the help of Michelle Barone who is really fabulous. She recommended the book The Mood Cure. It details the different neurotransmitters or happy hormones with ideas for how you can support them nutritionally or with supplements to help get you through the really rough patches while you deal with the issues in your life that might be bringing you down. 


A bit more google searching will tell you that meeting small goals will help with dopamine production, even a little bit of exercise will help with serotonin, endorphins and dopamine, connecting with loved ones will elevate your oxytocin. Alongside seeing the abundance in my life and being grateful for it I found having a list of small, actionable things I could do to make myself feel better really helped bring the sparkle back into all our lives - jump on a trampoline for a few minutes, put on some upbeat music, watch Louis C.K. on youtube, drink your favourite juice, call a friend, basically do things that bring joy back into your life and then you might have enough to spread around. 


It sounds like you have been managing your depression for a long time but I put this out there for anyone else on the list who might feel depressed. 


I love Sandra's idea to use your upswings if you have them. You might try charting your moods on your calendar so you could stock up on groceries, movies, things to do at home when at a low ebb and plan for fun adventures when back on a up. That might make things feel a bit more manageable. 


All best with it, 


Tamara

<juniper1270@...>

We struggle with serious cyclical depression/anxiety in our house... while it is my partner who becomes seriously debilitated, it is something that deeply affects our whole family; I would blow this request open to how FAMILIES have more successfully come through or navigated periods of depression.  


Best,

Jenny

Sandra Dodd

-=- I would blow this request open to how FAMILIES have more successfully come through or navigated periods of depression.  
-=-
I would return the same answers.  Avoid negativity, and remember that depression doesn't last forever.

Take advantage of "up" times and don't consider the down time to be horrible, personal, or the end of the world.


Sandra Dodd

-=- You might try charting your moods on your calendar so you could stock up on groceries, movies, things to do at home when at a low ebb-=-

I don't think it's predictable in calendar terms.

Roya Dedeaux

=I don't think it's predictable in calendar terms=

I have found for a lot of my clients, it is. There are patterns to our thoughts, feelings, behaviors that can be made more clear by charting. Sometimes.  I learned that I have stronger feelings of desperation and unrest Sunday nights, and as the day turms dark. I know that now, and can help myself prepare for it.

On Feb 3, 2014 2:55 PM, "Sandra Dodd" <Sandra@...> wrote:
 

-=- You might try charting your moods on your calendar so you could stock up on groceries, movies, things to do at home when at a low ebb-=-


I don't think it's predictable in calendar terms.

Sandra Dodd

-=-I learned that I have stronger feelings of desperation and unrest Sunday nights, and as the day turms dark. I know that now, and can help myself prepare for it.-=-

Well, true, and some people have triggers like the anniversary of a death.  Some don't do well in dark winter months, if they live in Minnesota or suchlike.  I don't handlet he hottest parts of August very well, but I feel light and airy and relieved if it's overcast and rainy.

The long "clinical depression" episodes of someone who is manic/depressive or somewhat bipolar (neither term is going to describe the range from mild to too-much), though—those aren't going to be on any short cycle.

And another reason I bristled at the idea of people keeping a calendar is that I seriously hope no one is thinking that it's only during the low cycles that people need to be positive.  If there's more positive thought, more gratitude, more feeling of abundance, more optimism ALL the time, theremight never be a deep dark low again.   The starting place matters.

Sandra

<bobcollier@...>

---In [email protected], <Sandra@...> wrote:


Years ago on a forum I wrote something about happy music instead of sad, comedies instead of dramas. A mom (someone I know and like) jumped in REALLY angry and said that depression was all biochemical and NOTHING could cheer someone up or stave off that depression.



Perhaps she was told that she had a "chemical imbalance" in her brain. There are a lot of myths about depression. It's probably not appropriate for me to recommend here anything specific from somebody I know personally who's written a book on the subject but this is his page at my Parental Intelligence website for anyone who might be interested:

http://www.parental-intelligence.com/ianwhite.html

A thought in passing. Would more recent members of this group know about my old newsletter website? , As well as your own page, there are links to quite a lot of articles and blog posts, some of which may be of interest. The search term "unschooling" brought up 342 results.

Bob

<bobcollier@...>

A possibly relevant article:


"Our emotional needs and resources"

http://blog.humangivens.com/p/our-emotional-needs-and-resources_780.html


"Perhaps no more powerful a statement could ever be made about the human condition: If human beings' needs are met, they won't get depressed, they cannot have psychosis, they cannot have manic depression, they cannot be in the grip of addictions. It is just not possible."


In a perfect world perhaps, but I can definitely support this idea from the positive experiences my wife and I have had with our two children growing up.


Bob



---In [email protected], <bobcollier@...> wrote:

---In [email protected], <Sandra@...> wrote:


Years ago on a forum I wrote something about happy music instead of sad, comedies instead of dramas. A mom (someone I know and like) jumped in REALLY angry and said that depression was all biochemical and NOTHING could cheer someone up or stave off that depression.



Perhaps she was told that she had a "chemical imbalance" in her brain. There are a lot of myths about depression. It's probably not appropriate for me to recommend here anything specific from somebody I know personally who's written a book on the subject but this is his page at my Parental Intelligence website for anyone who might be interested:

http://www.parental-intelligence.com/ianwhite.html

A thought in passing. Would more recent members of this group know about my old newsletter website? , As well as your own page, there are links to quite a lot of articles and blog posts, some of which may be of interest. The search term "unschooling" brought up 342 results.

Bob

<tgikristi@...>

-=-"And the kids' sleep cycle is part of this issue. Because I am awake hours before the children, doing my own thing and then they are alone once I go to bed. I am uncomfortable with how disconnected I feel from them, even though during the hours we are awake together I am actively helping, providing food/snacks, being present. I think it is not enough time- and in part it is the idea of their ages that makes me uncomfortable. If they were teenagers with night owl schedule, I might feel differently (or not) but I am hung up on their young age and my ideas about "good moms" and how this sleep cycle limits our options for activities with other kids and families. " …-=-

Due to my husband's work schedule, it has worked best for me to modify my sleep cycle to fit my children's sleep needs. My oldest (she will be 9 in May) would never feel comfortable being awake at night if both myself and her father were asleep (though she will read or play quietly for a while in the morning if she wakes before me). 

Both of my children have changed their sleep patterns throughout the years, sometimes going to sleep around 9pm, more often 11pm-12am, and sometimes staying up until 2am or later. Currently my youngest (who will be 2 in March) will stay up until 2 am if she was tired enough for a nap during the day. They are both up until around midnight and wake about 11-13 hours later depending on age/nap. I would not function well if I didn't adjust my sleep cycle to theirs. I either go to sleep when the last one has fallen asleep or sometimes I spend some time online or unwind with some media. 

Even so, I tend to wake naturally 7-9 hours later (too many days with less than 7 hours of sleep makes me grouchy). It doesn't always feel proper to me to be waking up so late but the alternative-me being awake while they sleep and vice versa wouldn't work for our family (when they have shared sleeping space with me, they both have always woken if I leave the room for more than a few minutes. To preserve their sleep I try to stay close). I have the best days when I get enough sleep but wake up a bit before the youngest so I have time to get myself ready for the day. 

We try and schedule any appointments (home maintenance, etc at the home or anything outside the home) for the afternoon. We often ask maintenance personnel to not knock or ring if arriving before noon. Because my oldest would still not be comfortable being up on her own at night and obviously it would not be safe for my toddler to be on her own at night, I modify my sleep schedule. I have night owl tendencies but I have never had the opportunity to sleep this late until I had children!

 Even though they sometimes stay up really late I find our present arrangement nets us all with a good amount of sleep. I already have many fond memories from connecting with both of my kids during their very late nights. If they are happily playing at something even late at night I can sometimes also sneak in a little laundry, cleaning, etc. We just consider our days shifted. An added bonus is both of my girls have more happy awake time in the evening when their dad is home from work, to connect with him. 

 Kristi

(Edited by Sandra --This came all as one big lump, and I broke it into paragraphs.  I hope I didn't guess badly.)

Sandra Dodd

This fascinated me the first time I read it, but I wanted to address the depression first.   

Look at this, though:  

-=-It occurred to me a couple of nights ago that I could transition my sleep cycle to match theirs or come a bit closer, so I am not as tired at midnight; so I can be more present and helpful when they are awake, even at night. But I am somewhat resistant to this change- I cannot yet accept it would be ok for a mom of young children to sleep until noon.-=-

THAT is about form rather than function.  it is about rules instead of principles.

-=- ok for a mom of young children to sleep until noon-=-

Why not, if the children are asleep, too?

The original e-mail had "neglect/neglectful" four times.  FOUR!  That's a lot of feeling of the possibility of being neglectful.

Now look at this again:  

-=- -=-It occurred to me a couple of nights ago that I could transition my sleep cycle to match theirs or come a bit closer, so I am not as tired at midnight; so I can be more present and helpful when they are awake, even at night. But I am somewhat resistant to this change- I cannot yet accept it would be ok for a mom of young children to sleep until noon.-=-

The purpose of a mom with young children being awake at noon should be to take care of, to be with, to feed and keep safe, her children.

But if a young child is awake and alone while the mom is asleep, that can be neglect no matter when in a 24-hour period it is.  So if the mom is on a traditional sleep pattern but the children are NOT, there is no virtue in being awake early.

Find ways for them to go to sleep when you do, or stay awake with them, or sleep on the couch next to where they're watching a movie, or arrange for them to watch a movie from their bed, or something safe, soft, quiet.

The number of hours they're awake will be the same whether it's day or not, though, and the number of hours the mom can be with them, if she has arranged to stay home with them, can be the same unless she somehow cares more about the clock than the children.

If there are meetups and gatherings planned, help the children see that there are soe days when you need to sleep early so you can wake up early, and do it happily, invitingly, cheerily, rather than harshly, shamingly or threateningly.

None of this will last forever.  It won't even last for years.  

Sandra

<fishbeensnail@...>

So much of the philosophy of unschooling is relevant to managing depression.


Be mindful, make small choices that are better each time.  Go slowly and breathe.  It takes time for change to happen, whether that is seeing the learning in computer games or climbing out of depression.  It is frustrating to be able to see where you want to be and feel that it is a long way away and will take a long time to get to.  Rushing won't get you there any faster.  When you rush you get it wrong, you fall down and you have to start again.  Sometimes from further away.  Accept that you are where you are now and move from there, without rushing.  Rushing is stress, tension, haste, tightness.  Those feelings will not help you to see clearly or move in the right direction.


Sandra's right, don't feed the depression.  Don't face into the dark, you can't get to where you want to be if you are facing the wrong way.  Be mindful of the little things, especially when it is hard.  Eating, sleeping, being active... in every area of your life look for the better choice.  Each choice is a step, decide where you want to go and make all those little steps lead you in THAT direction.  


If your depression is recurrent make the time when you are in a better mental space to work on why.  Maybe biology is part of it, but it won't be all of it. Work out your triggers, and if you are carrying bad things with you find a way to move past them and let them go.  Get counselling if you need it.  If there is darkness in your past and pain and fear keep biting you in the ass and dragging you back into the dark place then find a way to get past it.  Don't ignore it just because it's gone for the moment.  Slay your demons while you are not depressed because demons are tougher to beat when it is dark.  


Again, unschooling philosophy will help.  Fear is fear, and there is a lot of talk on this list about moving past fear.  Not by fighting it.  Fighting is tense and will bind you closer to your fears.  Relax, soften, let the bad things go because you don't need to keep holding on to them.  Turn towards something better.


Nadia

Sandra Dodd

-=-I even pretended I was on a 'how to be a fantastic mother' tv show once...guess what? I spent the whole day being a fantastic mother and loved every minute of it. -=-

I don't know whether I commented on this before, but I want to, even if I already did. :-)

This is part of the role that religion plays in people's lives.  The idea that someone knows what you're doing even when you're unwitnessed by other adults is valuable.   The idea that someone knows what you're thinking is part of some people's conscience (the part that makes us think again, and to reconsider, before doing something that we will regret).

Sometimes when an unschooler (or any parent) is in the throes of temper-losing, it can help to think of a person or two she/he respects and would like to impress, or someone who would be critical of some impending bad action, and think "what would... [Pam Sorooshian, sometimes, for me, or my sister] think"?

It's not crazy.  It's probably part of primate behavior, to want to be accepted by the group we will wake up with tomorrow, to be valued, to be groomed, not to be ostracized.    So in a complicated culture, and with the human psyche being as it is, sometimes some of that is internalized.

So if Clare thought to herself that there was a TV show audience watching what she did, that was her "witness."  

Sometimes people report that their writing or thinking about unschooling uses the Always Learning list as a witness. It's a two-step process, but it is "I should ask this question..." and then the question is written down, or maybe not.  Then the questioner thinks "probably Joyce would say this, and Meredith would say that..." and they answer their own question that way.

Similar to thinking the Virgin Mary knows that you had impure thoughts, or something, in a way.

If anyone know formal terminology for this, bring it. :-)  

Sandra

Steph Selby

Which came first your depression or the kids migrating to a nighttime schedule? We're night owls here, but I am a mom that sleeps in with her kids and stays up, mainly because I always have stayed up late. (Husband has a flexible career and mostly works from home, so he shares our schedule.) I think we really have a delayed sleep phase disorder, so even when we try to shift our schedules for a long while i.e months, we never feel rested, are more irritable, and it just really isn't us. This really impacts our life in society. Because we can't always get to the fun stuff we'd like to do, things like classes, meet-ups, museum open hours, etc or we have to alter our schedule for a while, which ends up wearing us all out. This happens every summer when kids want to go to summer day camps. And I can begin to feel guilty and sad that we miss out because of our sleep schedule. So I cannot think about what we are missing out on, instead I have to think about what we can do.

Especially if this is new to you, this time change your girls are living, and especially if it is uncomfortable for you to live in their time zone, I imagine this alone could trigger depression. Or at least aid it, since now you are having hours alone, in which you might be missing them, and then they are waking up and wanting to play minecraft, waking too late to go out and really do things, or their lack of desire. (Our girls are 6 & 8, minecraft is #1 here too) Also not being able to participate in their world may also not be helping. Old mac minis can run at the low end of about $250 for the computer alone on eBay. Some Universities sell used parts, monitors, mice, etc. at very inexpensive rates.

It can be depressing to know you miss out on life because of sleep alteration. It can also get that way if you need outings, and aren't able to get them. What about walks, can you get out at least for yourself and take a walk? Then you could bring things back the girls may find interesting, meanwhile you'd get a moment out and to breathe in fresh air. Also check you vitamin D levels this time of year. Low vitamin D can bring on depression.

I haven't struggled with deep depression in a very long time. All the therapy advise is invaluable. Before having kids, I went to a cognitive therapist, did homework, found out that I really am responsible for my own feelings, and got a handle on depression. It really changed my outlook. I still get low, still can fall into guilty thoughts about mothering, still need feedback from friends and support. But I can self talk my way out of lows.

My ways to combat the impacts of our altered sleep is that I plan activities when I feel the best, so in your house since you can do mornings, I would look for activities when they feel best. I aim for away from home activities that begin at around 1pm, and at home activities don't usually begin until 3-5pm. By then they've gotten some playtime in, and are ready to chop the day up a little. One of our daughters, at around 9pm, suddenly wakes up, and asks us a lot of questions and wants to make cookies, or bread, which if I was tired at 9 would be miserable for me! So I do wonder if part of their altered schedule could be negatively impacting you.

Stephanie

Sandra Dodd

-=-It can be depressing to know you miss out on life because of sleep alteration. It can also get that way if you need outings, and aren't able to get them. What about walks, can you get out at least for yourself and take a walk? Then you could bring things back the girls may find interesting, meanwhile you'd get a moment out and to breathe in fresh air. Also check you vitamin D levels this time of year. Low vitamin D can bring on depression.-=-

My husband lived in Minnesota, working, for what turned out to be a few years, coming home ten days a month.
We visited him sometimes there, and I was surprised at all the public service ads on TV for avoiding winter depression, and where to get help.   

As to a mom "needing outings," yes—find someone else to stay with the kids and get out, if you need to.

But moms should also reconsider their "need."   

Sometimes people think (vaguely) that they should get out of the house every day, or three times a week, or something in a very vague schedule that they can't quite find in their heads.

If that changes to "I need to be with my kids," then being in with the kids is good!  They won't be home forever.  Holly moved out (maybe temporarily until the end of June, maybe longer) this week.  The time does eventually come that the mom can go out all day every day if she wants.

-=-I haven't struggled with deep depression in a very long time. All the therapy advise is invaluable. Before having kids, I went to a cognitive therapist, did homework, found out that I really am responsible for my own feelings, and got a handle on depression. It really changed my outlook. I still get low, still can fall into guilty thoughts about mothering, still need feedback from friends and support. But I can self talk my way out of lows.-=-

People can get so depressed that they're incapacitated, and might need anti-depressants to help them de-fog.  One model or explanation for what depression can do is that because it's hurting, brains avoid certain connections.  It hurts less to think less, and eventually there is less of the biochemical that happily makes connnections.  When the connections quiet down, the person is less capable of responding quickly or creatively, and that doesn't help.   But though Prozac or something might help lubricate connections (or whatever it does), it's not magic, and the same thoughts that are saying "no, don't, stupid, sucks, hate" inside the person can continue to sludge it all up.

So de-sludging one's thoughts can be helped by noticing every little good thing one does, that others do, that happens by chance.  Gathering little sticks might not be as good as chopping big firewood, but until the ability to do big projects returns, gather the little sticks of hope and remember to be grateful and to find abundance, even if it's abundant Ramen soup, or abundant paper and pencils for drawing or making lists or playing games.

Put on  happy music. :-)

For anyone who reads this when its time stamp is new, there will be a chat about mental health in two hours, from where I'm sitting as I write this.   If you find this much later, there will be a transcript at some point.

Sandra

BRIAN POLIKOWSKY

I live in Minnesota but I am from Rio de Janeiro Brazil.
Winters are hard, not because of the cold. I don;t have an issue with the cold but the dark days.
February is a hard month for me but it is also gives me something to look forward to  as the days are getting longer.
Bad day today as I type this with my kitten dying in my lap.

I have to say that for me even going outside for 10 minutes ( when my kids were younger) to take care of our pony  when she was alive really helped me.
It did not need to be a long walk or anything .
I just went out, fed, watered cleaned and gave her a treat. Nice days I took her for a quick walk if my husband was in with the kids.
That was all I needed to keep things in check.

There is also tons of things that can make a home sparkly that you do not need to go outside.
Play some cool physical games with the kids on Wii or Kinnect.
LAUGH!
 Funny cat videos always makes us laugh!
 Bird watching from the window , Get a bird feeder and watch the fun.
 Binoculars to watch stuff outside are always fun!!!!!
I think there was a list made of things to do at home????
 
Alex Polikowsky