<shirarocklin@...>

Hi Everyone,

I just read this page, 

http://sandradodd.com/words/without


Chris Sanders wrote of some books read alone, and along with the daughter.  Does anyone know which books these were?  

"I found kids' books that talked about ways to learn how to cope and gain some mastery over her feelings of out-of-control anxiety and compulsions. We read them together, we talked a lot and at her request, I helped her with and reminded her of some of those techniques. I DID NOT do what a lot of the books, websites and experts advised—systematic desensitization, refusing to reassure her etc. I DID NOT seek a diagnosis nor put her in therapy. I did remove as many stressors from her life as possible, practiced patience and offered her as much of a safe and secure environment as I could. I observed her carefully and built her trust in me, learning what triggered her anxieties and helping her cope and overcome some of them."

Thanks,
Shira

Chris Sanders

The book we found most useful to read together was:


The book I found the most helpful to read myself was, "Freeing Your Child From Obsessive Compulsive Disorder by Tamar E. Chansky, Ph.D.

That was six years ago.  My daughter is 16 years old now and handles her anxiety so much better now.  She can still fall into some obsessive thinking/worrying during particularly stressful times, but she doesn't have any compulsions anymore, that I'm aware of.

I'm going to be ordering a book that my friend told me about, "My Anxious Mind: A Teen's Guide to Managing Anxiety and Panic"  http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1433804506/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

and see if it might be useful for her.  

Chris

On Jan 13, 2014, at 8:00 PM, <shirarocklin@...> <shirarocklin@...> wrote:

 

Hi Everyone,

I just read this page, 

http://sandradodd.com/words/without


Chris Sanders wrote of some books read alone, and along with the daughter.  Does anyone know which books these were?  

<shirarocklin@...>

The book I found the most helpful to read myself was, "Freeing Your Child From Obsessive Compulsive Disorder by Tamar E. Chansky, Ph.D.


------------------

Thanks for those links.  Does the second book offer ways to help your child that don't try to force change on them, or make them feel pressured or bad about the strange things they feel like they need to do?  Does it fit well with unschooling - ie. supporting your child, helping them get what they want, helping them access whatever they want to learn about, etc...?

Also, I'm curious, if anyone else wants to chime in.  If there is already a genetic predisposition in a family for OCD (meaning, a parent has it, or an aunt, or uncle, grandparent, etc), does that point to a more chemical/genetic cause and less environmental/stress cause (although stress would be a contributing factor in any case)?  
I have a fear that no matter what I do this will inevitably follow some sort of biological route to worse and worse.  I'm scared for my child, scared for what she will go through, how she will feel, how she is already feeling.  I guess reading that book will help.  But I'd like to hear more stories about OCD, if possible.  Has anyone's child needed medication?  Are there other cases like Chris's daugther, where the child pretty much got better?

Thanks,
Shira

BRIAN POLIKOWSKY

Shira
When my son was 6 ( I think) he went through a time where he washed his hands a lot. All the time. For a long time. Several times in a row. Until they bled. It went on for months.
I helped by finding nice mild soaps and good hand creams, soft towels available.
It think it was a time I was very anxious ( money related) and we had no money and he may have felt that, I don't know.

Little by little it happened less and less until he no longer was obsessive about.
Time, love, support, peace and me calming down. Not making the behaviour an issue he felt bad about it and different because of it. Not making it an issue at all.

Keep in mind my son did not come to me because his obsession was bothering him. If he did and there were other issues I probably would have helped him in different ways
to help him achieve whatever he wanted.
 
Alex Polikowsky
 
 

Chris Sanders


On Jan 14, 2014, at 12:56 PM, <shirarocklin@...> <shirarocklin@...> wrote:

Thanks for those links.  Does the second book offer ways to help your child that don't try to force change on them, or make them feel pressured or bad about the strange things they feel like they need to do?  Does it fit well with unschooling - ie. supporting your child, helping them get what they want, helping them access whatever they want to learn about, etc...?


To be honest, I don't remember what methods or techniques the second book offered.  I read it more for understanding what was going on in my daughter's mind -- why she was behaving the way she was.  What I gathered was that she was very fearful and felt like she had little control over what might happen.  Her particular fears focused primarily around getting sick, especially in public.  Once I understood better what was driving her behavior I sorted out on my own, from reading more on unschooling lists and corresponding with other unschooling mothers whose children suffered OCD, what I wanted to do to help her.

She was asking for help, for concrete things she could do to feel better.  I took her to a play-therapist who allowed me to hang out with them together.  Mostly, my daughter played a little bit and we talked conversation-like with the therapist about the previous weeks' events and what fears she was dealing with.  The therapist didn't really do much except give my daughter and myself a feeling that we were on the right track as far as shoring up her trust in me and her father and helping her to feel more empowered in her daily life.

Like Alex's son, my daughter washed her hands raw.  Some of the things I did to help her was to remind her to just wash the palms of her hands if possible.  I also helped her to apply lanolin to the backs of her hands to ease the healing. I coached her to use hand sanitizer just on the palms of her hands.  Another manifestation of her anxiety was that she asked for reassurance constantly. While before I'd resisted giving it to her, fearing that I was feeding her behavior, I switched to answering her questions and then reminding her that I'd already answered her -- asking her to remember what I'd told her, helping her to think about what my previous answer had been - gradually learning to reassure herself.  I never withheld reassurance but I encouraged her to find it within herself, listen to her "logical brain" when she could.

Also, I'm curious, if anyone else wants to chime in.  If there is already a genetic predisposition in a family for OCD (meaning, a parent has it, or an aunt, or uncle, grandparent, etc), does that point to a more chemical/genetic cause and less environmental/stress cause (although stress would be a contributing factor in any case)?  
I have a fear that no matter what I do this will inevitably follow some sort of biological route to worse and worse.  I'm scared for my child, scared for what she will go through, how she will feel, how she is already feeling.  I guess reading that book will help.  But I'd like to hear more stories about OCD, if possible.  Has anyone's child needed medication?  Are there other cases like Chris's daugther, where the child pretty much got better?

I believe that OCD can be more prevalent in certain families.  As far as I know, there isn't anyone with OCD in my daughter's genetic ancestry, but there are certainly other neuroses and even some psychoses.  I don't know how old your child is but I've noticed that many children go through a period of heightened anxiety around the age of 7-8-9 years old and can take a few years to come through it.  My daughter was 8 years old when something happened that triggered her anxieties to spiral out of control.  

We've not used or felt the need for medication but I do have friends whose children have been medicated for OCD and other mental illnesses.  They were not unschooled though, and so I can not know how or if their ability to cope would have been different if they had.  I do know that if my daughter had been going to school, I would not have been able to take the approach with helping her that I did.  She was given as much control as possible over her situation, and that often meant that she chose not to participate in activities that involved leaving the house, being in public, or risking being around people that she thought might be contagiously ill.  Attending school on any kind of regular basis would've been impossible for her.

Chris

Sandra Dodd

-=-I have a fear that no matter what I do this will inevitably follow some sort of biological route to worse and worse.  I'm scared for my child, scared for what she will go through, how she will feel, how she is already feeling.  I guess reading that book will help.  But I'd like to hear more stories about OCD, if possible.  Has anyone's child needed medication?  Are there other cases like Chris's daugther, where the child pretty much got better?-=-

I'm going to pull a list of words from the short paragraph above:

fear
no matter what
worse and worse
scared
scared

IF it's going to happen no matter what, why be afraid?
IF it's going to get worse, will fear and worry help or hurt?

-=-I have a fear that no matter what I do this will inevitably follow some sort of biological route to worse and worse.  I'm scared for my child, scared for what she will go through, how she will feel, how she is already feeling.  I guess reading that book will help.  But I'd like to hear more stories about OCD, if possible.  Has anyone's child needed medication?  Are there other cases like Chris's daugther, where the child pretty much got better?-=-

Would it be better if she were in school?

If no, relax.
If yes, put her in school.

If you spin and spin in fear and panic and you can't think because you're afraid, then she's all alone.  

Think.
Breathe.
Make choices that lead toward making her life better.  Not one big choice, a constant flow of choices every time you're going to say something or do something, all day, every day, starting now.


Sandra


BRIAN POLIKOWSKY

I am pretty positive that the way I reacted to my son compulsions helped him , at least, not make it worse.

I was not in fear, I was not spinning around, I did not make a big deal, I also did not try to fix it.

I made things better for him so his hands would not be so raw and hurt but I did not try to stop  the behavior or worry that it would do not.

 Reacting calm and not panicking or making it worse than it was, or causing my son to worry about it and yes he would have worried if I had pointed out that it was a compulsion. He would have freaked out if I had freaked out.

I did not stop the world for him to wash his hands ten times either. If we were leaving I and he was still washing I would say ; "come one time to go" just like if it was something else. I guess I did not call attention to the  behavior. I did point out that in the winter when our hand is already dry because of the dry air and washing would do that to his hand. My hands used to get like that from washing dogs for dog shows. IT hurts. So I got him moisturizer, fluffy towels and showed him to pat dry. I  think gloves for handling things also helped. He still has surgical gloves but does not use them anymore!
 
Alex Polikowsky
 
 
 

BRIAN POLIKOWSKY

and as things settle with money here for us , meaning I calmed down and handled stress better I think that helped him too.
I think it was related even if in a small way.

 
Alex Polikowsky
 
 
 

From: BRIAN POLIKOWSKY <polykowholsteins@...>
To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2014 10:38 PM
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] OCD behaviors

 
I am pretty positive that the way I reacted to my son compulsions helped him , at least, not make it worse.

I was not in fear, I was not spinning around, I did not make a big deal, I also did not try to fix it.

I made things better for him so his hands would not be so raw and hurt but I did not try to stop  the behavior or worry that it would do not.

 Reacting calm and not panicking or making it worse than it was, or causing my son to worry about it and yes he would have worried if I had pointed out that it was a compulsion. He would have freaked out if I had freaked out.

I did not stop the world for him to wash his hands ten times either. If we were leaving I and he was still washing I would say ; "come one time to go" just like if it was something else. I guess I did not call attention to the  behavior. I did point out that in the winter when our hand is already dry because of the dry air and washing would do that to his hand. My hands used to get like that from washing dogs for dog shows. IT hurts. So I got him moisturizer, fluffy towels and showed him to pat dry. I  think gloves for handling things also helped. He still has surgical gloves but does not use them anymore!
 
Alex Polikowsky
 
 
 


Karen

>>>>>I'm scared for my child, scared for what she will go through, how she will feel, how she is already feeling.<<<<<

Around the age of 8 my son started playing a game called Tinkatolli. It's a very cute game that uses found objects in the game to make new objects, and encourages kids to do the same thing at home. The newly made objects were very cute, and my son, who was and is a very sensitive boy, thought these objects were so special that he developed an attachment to them. The thing that really solidified his endearment to these cute found object creations was the fact that they would have been garbage otherwise.

As a consequence, he started not wanting to throw any garbage out at all. He felt that it all had potential and could be useful similar to what was being portrayed in the game. He seemed genuinely disturbed by the thought of discarding these items and appealed to me to save them. So I did. I didn't tell anyone other than a good friend of mine because I was afraid people would think I was nuts. But, I had bins and boxes stashed in corners of rooms filled with cereal boxes, granola bar wrappers, tin cans, straws, lids, cups, chip bags, etc.

The most challenging part was when we travelled to Vancouver for two weeks and Ethan decided he wasn't going to eat because I told him we couldn't possibly save all the packaging while we travelled. Obviously, not eating wasn't an option. My forcing him to comply didn't feel comfortable to me. So, I decided, and Doug agreed, that we would get an empty box from a grocery store, fill it with everything Ethan wanted to save, and mail it back to ourselves on our last day traveling. Ethan loved this idea.

In the box we had the same stuff as we did at home - wrappers, boxes and cans - as well as a few items we found in the sand on the beach. I tried to buy as much food as I could that didn't have packaging to save room. At the end of the two weeks the box was completely full, and I mailed it out of Tofino, BC. The cost was $20 in stamps. Very inexpensive compared to the damage I feel I could have done.

Once home, the collecting continued - though a little less, which was interesting to note. One week or so later the box of collected items came. I asked Ethan if he wanted to open it. He said no. His need to collect started to wane. About a year later, when Ethan no longer was asking to save our wrappers and things, I asked him again if he wanted to open the box together. He said sure. We went through it all. I asked if we could recycle some of the items and throw out the rest or if he would like to save it all as a memento. He picked out a few items - mostly the things he found on the beach - and said to recycle the rest. I did.

I have to admit, I was a bit worried. But then I thought, what would be worse than a house full of wrappers and boxes and cans? I decided it would be the potential for my son to live his life feeling a little (or a lot) less whole due to not having his very real attachment to these items taken seriously. It all worked out fine. Along the way we also collected stuffed birds, stuffed cats, and happy faces - all items he seemed to have a very deep attachment to.

It's not like that now. He's eleven. He saves very little any more. Actually, I save more than he does now for my own sentimental reasons. I don't know if that was OCD. It was a compulsion that might not have seemed ordinary to some. For us it was something we needed to make room for. So we did.

Karen.

BRIAN POLIKOWSKY

that is a wonderful story Karen!

It reminded me that I used to have pretty much all the boxes from my son toys  in the attic because he did not want to part with them.
My daughter used to save hers too,  not as much as he did. They are all gone now. They said toss it and I did.
I was the one who felt sentimental tossing all those Thomas the Train boxes...

 And it also reminded me of this that Brie Jontry  created:

Spirit Fuel: a short tale of a piece of art from materials filled with memories of exploring and sharing

http://sandradodd.com/briejontry/spirituality
 
Alex Polikowsky
 
 
 


Karen

For Ethan, for many years, saving things was really important to him. We saved all his toys, books, drawings, creations, and things he simply touched - anything he requested. We took pictures of things that would inevitably disappear, like snowmen or jack-o-lanterns or drawings in the sand.

But, he would get very attached to surprising things as well. Like, one time, when he was very young, I bought a fancy compost for our back patio, and I wanted to show him. I picked up the closest piece of food to me, which happened to be a mushroom, and brought him out back with me. I tossed the mushroom into the compost, gave the bin and spin, and said "There!" He asked me what was going to happen to the mushroom. I told him it would turn to dirt, and we could use the dirt to plant more food. He fell in a heap on the ground a began to weep. I quickly reached into the bin, pulled out the mushroom, rinsed it off and gave it to him. "Here it is!" I said. He looked up at me with big tear filled, grateful eyes and held that mushroom like it was the most precious thing in the world. I put it in our window. It eventually withered, and I think he forgot about it, but I realized that day that he was very, very sensitive.

In the past, I've had to be careful about talking about things like natural disasters. Still do to some extent. He would get very frightened about the idea of a tornado, for example, and ask the same questions over and over, needing constant reassurance that there wasn't going to be one soon. He would pace, and have a difficult time sleeping. I learned what his triggers were, and avoided them mostly. Sometimes I would talk lightly about the things I knew had bothered him, to see where he currently was, emotionally, with those things.

This past year we travelled to Japan. While we were there, there were two hurricanes heading our way. One hit lightly. There was a 7.3 earthquake and a small tsunami. I wasn't sure how much to reveal to Ethan, but it turned out he had a very natural reaction as I slowly revealed the news to him.

I really don't care what Ethan has. I care who he is. I understand what it's like to be very sensitive. I'm like that myself. Doug (his dad) is too actually. I understand what paralyzing anxiety feels like. I've felt it myself, many times. I wish people had helped me navigate those things rather than try to fix me or make my sensitivities go away. I've had to learn to do that myself.

What I want for Ethan is that same thing I want for myself. For him to know who he is, what his limits are, how to navigate difficult emotions, and how to make the most of his strengths.

If it helps another parent to get a diagnosis to better understand what their child is feeling and going through, then great!! But don't look at the diagnosis more than the child. The clues to how to move forward in the best way possible are held in the mannerisms and reactions of that child. Pay attention to those. To how they change in different environments, under different circumstances, and at different stages of development. In my humble opinion, that will be the best guide for both you, and in the long run, for your child.

Karen

<shirarocklin@...>

Thank you to everyone for your responses.  Sandra - because of having followed along here for several years now, I was able to 'give' myself the advice you gave after reading my words of fear and worry.  Thank you.  I spent the first day after noticing these behaviors freaking out inside myself.  I spent the next day examining every little thing she did, trying to see what was normal child quirks and what was OCD.  I couldn't tell!  We were in a room full of kids at a program, and I was looking at her, judging all the things I saw her doing... and then I thought to myself, I've never thought those things were OCD before this - so I looked around at the other kids just as intently, and saw them doing the same sorts of things.  I realized that most of what she does is just normal, and only a few things she does are out of the ordinary.  That was day 2.  I kept all of this to myself (and my husband) - I think I was just working through it.  By day three since noticing all this, I feel much calmer, I'm waiting for those books Chris recommended from the library, I'm asking around about a play-therapist, and I'm focusing on appreciating all that my girl is, which is so much more than a few compulsions that get in her way some times of the day.  She already commented today that getting out the door today was easier for her than its been in a while.  And I think thats because I've been thinking about how I can lessen her stress, and where I have been unconsciously leaning on her as an 'older' kid now.  Being kinder to her, more touching, longer patience (and deep breathing), etc.  Its helped that my husband recently started taking a course at college two nights a week, and this is the first week I've been home at nights alone.  I thought it would be so much harder!  But without him here, I find myself softer with them, and we've spent more time cuddling, reading on the sofa, etc, until bedtime.  Its been nice.

So, I appreciate all the stories everyone shared with good endings, and also Sandra's examination of my words. 

Loads of appreciation for this list,
Shira

Sandra Dodd

-=- By day three since noticing all this, I feel much calmer-=-

That's the big one.  That will change everything else.

Yesterday's Just Add Light was about calm.  It made me realize I don't have a page on that.  I'm planning to make a collection, but here are a couple of them:



<alohabun@...>

One of my children went through a phase for several months of hand washing, lip licking, interrupting by shouting things like I dropped xyz on the floor a couple of times in a row and asking if he was good (the last part made me feel especially sad as yes!  he is good!).  That happened when he was 9 and after an incident with a friend whom he felt he disappointed and betrayed by telling the truth.  Over time, he stopped doing most of those things except for the hand washing.  The hand washing happened a few more times, but hasn't in a very long time now.  

What helped most I think was for me to believe in him...to trust him to figure out his big feelings, to give him space to learn about himself and time to gain confidence in trusting himself.  I was there to help him if he needed me, and to step back if he didn't.  


Occasionally there are certain things that he feels he needs to do for a period of time.  He continues to learn coping skills or moves past those things.  

ie. There was a time when he didn't think the door was shut well enough and would shut it very hard many times over. I did ask him to stop shutting the car or house door so hard so many times.  Eventually he asked me to shut the doors for him and he seemed to be relieved to not have to feel it might not be shut all the way.  So I shut the doors and didn't make any big deal about it.  I treated it like it was any other thing I'd do when I left the house.  I didn't mind doing it because it helped him.  If we had made the shutting of the door a big deal, that would have added to our son's stress and likely make our son feel bad too.  He certainly didn't need to feel ashamed on top of whatever feelings he was having that were making him feel uncomfortable shutting the door in the first place. That passed too.  I can't even remember when he started shutting the door again, but he did.  


Laurie 

Chris Sanders


 By day three since noticing all this, I feel much calmer,

It's good you're finding ways to feel calmer.  Having calmness helps my daughter a lot.  I remember the worry I had for her and her future.  I had friends with kids who had OCD and they were taking medications and seeing therapists and still having lots of trouble.  I was afraid that my daughter was sentenced for life with OCD and it would get worse before and if it ever got better.  

It took time, and my concerted effort to understand her triggers and what drove her to her obsessions and compulsions.  Once I was able to remove as many stressors and triggers as possible, and gain her trust by allowing her to escape without question or delay, any and all situations that frightened her  - she began to open up more to me about what she was thinking and how she was feeling when she was obsessing and doing things compulsively.  

Rather than trying to change her, I changed her environment.  I remember thinking about how the brain works and I imagined hers awash in stress hormones and her laying down neural pathways of fear and obsession and compulsion.  I don't know if that's how it really works, but I set my goal to try to reduce the stress hormones in her brain and allow her young growing brain to make connections not based in fear and anxiety.  This is what seemed to work. As she relaxed and matured, she was better able to cope and face her anxieties when she wanted to.  

Recently, about eight years after her first problems surfaced, she persevered through six weeks of extreme anxiety taking driver's ed and getting her driver's license.  I was really impressed that she stuck with it and passed all of her exams with flying colors in spite of being extremely anxious about driving.  Not only is she an anxious driver, but she was driving with strangers… at night… and in snowstorms! I'm not sure I could've done it! She also experienced her first classroom-like situation sitting with 30+ other teens at desks set up in rows and with note-taking, hand-raising and pop-quizzes!  

I share this success story to let you know that your discovery of your child's OCD-like behaviors and anxieties - doesn't necessarily mean a life sentence of normal life crippling issues.  I think you're well on your way to figuring that out - much faster than I did.

Chris

<plaidpanties666@...>

 >>Being kinder to her, more touching, longer patience (and deep breathing), etc. <<


That reminds me - it's not OCD, but an anxiety thing. For awhile, Mo was "freezing up" when we'd go to the store and look at things she wanted - toys or books or games. I mean she'd freeze in place like she was a statue, not speak, not respond in any way. It was... unsettling. A few times I carried her out to the car - poker stiff - and once we were at the car she was fine. I on  the other hand, was a wreck. What was wrong with my kid?? So I started bringing a book with me - I figured if it happened again, I'd sit down and read for awhile and see what happened - but I also decided to slow down a whole lot so I could try and figure out what was triggering that reaction. At the same time, I relaxed around the idea that my kid might turn into a statue in the middle of Walmart. I found out that what she needed was for me to drop any pressure around her making a choice - she was freezing up because I was standing there, waiting for her to Pick Something! Turned out, it was an easy fix. She'd start shopping, and I'd sit down and read until she was ready. 

So it was really what Shira wrote - more kindness, patience, and reassurance from me. In Mo's case, that didn't include touching because touching isn't reassuring to her when she's stressed. 


---Meredith

<shirarocklin@...>

This isn't directly related to this post, but it might help others. 


Often when I post something looking for help - I get some great initial ideas.  And then I take some time and think.  Sometimes I post again before thinking enough, and Sandra always calls me out on that.  But a lot of the time, I come here to post something - and then while I'm writing it all out, I first realize how long it is, how much detail my 'problems' contain.  Then I begin thinking and brainstorming - thoughts occur to me about what the others here might say to me.  I come to realize that its a waste of time to post my question when I've already come up with 3-4 possible solutions - so I delete what I wrote, and go try out the ideas, and then usually something works, and I sometimes don't need more advice than what I thought up myself.  


Read a little, try a little, wait a while, watch.


It really does work well.  Except that also, I contemplate a little (not too much), and write a little, sometimes just in my head.  And I also remind myself that knowing something helpful doesn't always mean I can help THIS HERE NOW... sometimes I just tuck away my ideas and know that I will be more ready to implement them next time, and that its okay that this time ended not so great.  Because this process of change, it takes time and changing of our habits of thought. 


Today I didn't really help my daughter get out the door.  My husband was in charge and she (I was going to write "had a melt-down" and then wondered what a melt-down really is) was distressed.  I didn't end up helping him speed her up, or helping her to calm down, but I was there with her, talking to her, trying to calm her, attempting to help them both through the process of going out. It didn't feel like a successful endeavour, but it was.  It was part of longer-term process.


Shira

Lisa Celedon

<<But a lot of the time, I come here to post something - and then while I'm writing it all out, I first realize how long it is, how much detail my 'problems' contain. Then I begin thinking and brainstorming - thoughts occur to me about what the others here might say to me. I come to realize that its a waste of time to post my question when I've already come up with 3-4 possible solutions - so I delete what I wrote, and go try out the ideas, and then usually something works, and I sometimes don't need more advice than what I thought up myself. >>

I got so excited when I read this, because it is what I have been finding in my own process lately as well.
I start to compose an email to the group (usually in my head) - and the act of having to be very clear, very honest, and mindful of what I say and how I frame what I am asking is what helps me discover the answer, and different options I have for moving forward.

I noticed when I read what you wrote, that I have been mentally composing emails much less, and instead, slowing down, breathing, and being clear and honest with myself first, before thinking that only people outside my home could have the answer. I think that's growth.

As being honest and mindful and calm becomes more immediate for me, it's become easier to focus more on my family, to see them and what they need clearly, and then the next right thing to do flows much more quickly and effortlessly to mind. And then doing that thing is a pleasure.

Sometimes I still need help, then I can ask for it.

I so so appreciate all the wisdom, patience, and generosity of spirit I have found here.

Lisa C

Sent from my iPhone

Sandra Dodd

-=-I have been mentally composing emails much less, and instead, slowing down, breathing, and being clear and honest with myself first, before thinking that only people outside my home could have the answer. I think that's growth.-=-

Very much so.

Thanks Shira, and Lisa, for describing the phase in which you think of what to write and then think of what might be written by others. I've heard this described many times over the years, but never as well as here this week.

-=-As being honest and mindful and calm becomes more immediate for me, it's become easier to focus more on my family, to see them and what they need clearly, and then the next right thing to do flows much more quickly and effortlessly to mind. And then doing that thing is a pleasure.-=-

Yes. :-)
With "make the better choice," the quality of the options gradually is raised far and away from the original starting-place options.

Some years back, someone was angry with this same sort of request to be clear and careful and on topic. She wrote:

"Sandra,

"I read your entire website before I subscribed to the list. If all you can do is refer people to read more material – you cannot help me. If I wanted to read more about unschooling information I would buy a book. I have read everything I could get a hold of. What I need is rewording of everyday situations. ..."

And the rest is here, the second item. http://sandradodd.com/feedback/rude She cursed me and my family, but I think by any measure my family was better off that day, and probably is better off now, than when that was written.


In e-mail on the side, today, I got this:

________
I'm catching up on my emails and just read your post (see below).

It's beautiful - what you wrote.

I remember feeling like [that mom, with my child]. Every word you wrote was helpful. I especially loved this part: "If you spin and spin in fear and panic and you can't think because you're afraid, then she's all alone."

I'm happy I'm not in that mental space anymore. I did a lot of work to get myself out of there. But I feel like Always Learning (and especially your writing/advice) was like the grease that helped me keep my wheels moving to get out of that space and stay out.
______________

Some people come to this discussion, get what they need, and go on to live better without leaving a note. That's fine. :-)

Some flail and resist and complain and go away angry.

Some flail and resist and complain and get pissed off, and then calm down and live better lives.

Some stay and help others get it.

Any of that is fine. My kids are grown and whole and good. I'm grateful that they all lived and that I lived long enough to see them grown.

I didn't expect to still be helping other unschoolers, but it's satisfying to have found a way to help improve the world, and I plan to keep doing this—helping people directly, if they come and ask—until I don't feel like it, or I can't.

Thank you for the positive feedback. It might tip an undecided reader toward peace and calm.

Sandra

Deb Lewis

Dylan was a little like Karen’s Ethan. I could usually save just the labels from cans, and sometimes cut out portions of cereal boxes or cracker boxes. There was no urgency because most things went into bins to be recycled and sat around for a month until we went to the recycling center.  That wasn’t troubling because I often saved pretty labels or wrappers and used them in journals or projects, so saving appealing things seemed normal to me.  He especially liked six pack rings and used dryer sheets and saved them all. But those things were incorporated into games he played. Dryer sheets were the silk Mothra’s babies sprayed on enemies, or they were force fields, or a snowy mountainside.
 
There was hand washing. Like Alex I tried to provide mild soap and soft towels. He wouldn’t use creams or lotions, they only made him feel he needed to wash his hands more.
 
And there was straightening of untidy stacks of cards or papers or books. I had a friend was very sure Dylan had OCD. She would come play cards with us sometimes and she would ask him questions like, “What do you feel will happen if you don’t straighten those cards.” His answer was always some version of “They’ll be crooked.”  It probably amused me more than it should have. She so wanted him to say his family would be in some dire peril if those cards weren’t put just so.  He liked to order the knives and forks and spoons in the drawer. He liked arranging the food storage bags and foil and parchment paper. I didn’t mind.
 
He was already quirky. He wore some of his clothes inside out because he hated feeling the seams. Certain kinds of lights in certain stores bothered him. Loud noise bothered him.
 
But about the hand washing, I think his skin felt weird. A few years later he was diagnosed with psoriasis. I think he was very sensitive to the oil in his skin and so his hands felt dirty. In retrospect I probably shouldn’t have been providing mild, moisturizing soaps, but Dawn dishwashing liquid... something that would have felt like it got rid of the oil. I think he would have washed less.
 
Those were kind of hard times, my dad was dying and we were caring for him. Everyone one in Dylan’s life was a little sad and worried. I think the stress made his (at the time unknown) psoriasis a little worse and the hand washing was a way to manage weird feeling skin.

I’m not suggesting every frequent hand washer has a skin disease. Only that there are more possibilities than an anxiety disorder.
 
I think adults have a pretty narrow window of what normal is and anything outside that window becomes a disorder or syndrome. I think our window could be bigger. I think kids very often have reasons for behaviors that adults don’t see any point in.  And it’s harder for kids who aren’t really sure how to explain how they feel or what they’re experiencing.  I would be very careful about assuming a psychological problem in someone so young.  I would default to all other possibilities first, and one would be that just because I didn’t understand it, didn’t necessarily make it outside the window of normal. Children’s lives are so scrutinized. There is nothing they can do that’s private. Adults aren’t constantly judged on their little weirdnesses, in part because they’re not being watched and assessed all the time.  Parent’s just aren’t as intimately aware of the quirks and private habits of their adult friends, nor do they feel any special right or responsibility to fix them. 
 
Dylan is still a frequent hand washer but the very up side to that is that he is never sick. He doesn’t care about knives being properly aligned or stacks of cards being perfect, and he wears all his clothes the right way.

Deb Lewis