Legal questions
jessicasilver25
Hello, my name is Jessica and I am new to the list. I know you ask to wait and read before posting but I am in a situation where I need some answers now and I really don't have time to look and see if this has been posted before!
Anyways, I have been homeschooling my 7 and 9 yr olds since September. Traditional schooling was just not going well at all, so I pulled them out. We started doing online school type stuff but even that just wasnt catching on. They are bored! So We have started the unschooling journey!!!
Ok, now to my question. How do you unschool and not end up breaking state laws and getting threatened with prosecution of child neglect? (as it looks like is starting to happen to me) I tried to tell them that my kids are learning far more this way then they were before, but they say I am not meeting the states requirement for subject content and time. We live in North Carolina right now but will be moving to FL next year. My husband is in the Army, and any legal trouble could affect him greatly! In all of my unschooling research I have yet to come across any info on the legal aspects of unschooling! Any insight would be very appreciated! Thank you in advance!
Anyways, I have been homeschooling my 7 and 9 yr olds since September. Traditional schooling was just not going well at all, so I pulled them out. We started doing online school type stuff but even that just wasnt catching on. They are bored! So We have started the unschooling journey!!!
Ok, now to my question. How do you unschool and not end up breaking state laws and getting threatened with prosecution of child neglect? (as it looks like is starting to happen to me) I tried to tell them that my kids are learning far more this way then they were before, but they say I am not meeting the states requirement for subject content and time. We live in North Carolina right now but will be moving to FL next year. My husband is in the Army, and any legal trouble could affect him greatly! In all of my unschooling research I have yet to come across any info on the legal aspects of unschooling! Any insight would be very appreciated! Thank you in advance!
Schuyler
Unschooling is a subset of homeschooling. Any legal issues will fall under the state's guidelines for homeschooling. For local information you can contact state lists tsome of which are listed here: http://sandradodd.com/world#us. And you can look through information on state-by-state homeschooling rules here: http://www.nhen.org/state-pages/state_homeschooling_information_2.html
Schuyler
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Schuyler
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>>In all of my unschooling research I have yet to come across any info on the legal aspects of unschooling! Any insight would be very appreciated! Thank you in advance!<<[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-Hello, my name is Jessica and I am new to the list. I know you ask to wait and read before posting but I am in a situation where I need some answers now and I really don't have time to look and see if this has been posted before!-=-
The front page says this list isn't for discussing laws. That should be done locally. Find some people in North Carolina to talk to.
But no matter what they say, there are laws and you either need to have your kids in school or take an option the law allows. Don't tell the state "I don't need to follow your laws because I'm unschooling." Unschooling is a method of homeschooling just as The Open Classroom is a method of education, but someone who's going to run an open classroom school, or a "freeschool," or any other sort of alternative school, needs to understand the laws well enough to describe what they're doing within those laws, and so does each unschooler.
We can't insert unschooling into a person the way we could sell them a refrigerator and come install it. It's something the parents have to learn, gradually, and really understand.
If you're having any sort of dealings with officials of the government or school administration or hostile relatives, make more conservative choices until you're confident enough to describe what you're doing in the terms that fit the jurisdiction. That's not the purpose of this discussion. But the philosophical part that will apply anywhere is that there ARE laws, and either leaning toward or rushing fully toward unschooling doesn't change that fact.
Some people are in a position to ignore some laws better than other people are. But it's homeschooling (or private school, in California, or "education otherwise" or home education in England), and then, as a method, it might be unschooling, but that's not what you tell the state, because it's too particular.
My best analogy for this is if someone in North Carolina asks me where I live, I'll just say New Mexico. If someone from Albuquerque asks me, I say near Juan Tabo and Candelaria. If someone in Australia asks me, I say "The U.S."
If another unschooler asks me, I say "radical unschooling." If I'm talking to a stranger who knows nothing about homeschooling, I say "homeschooling." Unless they ask for more particulars, more particulars don't even make sense.
If someone from Australia says, "Oh, I used to live in Albuquerque--up near the mountains," then I can ask them where, and tell them how far from there my house is.
If you have an intact marriage, friendly relatives and neighbors and you're not in any trouble with child services, then don't worry too much about laws. If you do have legal entanglements, buying a curriculum might be a good idea until you understand unschooling better. You don't have to use it exactly as is recommended, but you would have it.
If we can discuss this all in such a general way that it will help people in all different countries, I'm willing to discuss it.
Finding out what local laws are and finding out how people in one's own country/state/district comply with those laws is part of the cost and reality of unschooling, and has to be done by each family. If that's too difficult to do, then unschooling will be beyond their abilities.
-=- they say I am not meeting the states requirement for subject content and time. We live in North Carolina right now but will be moving to FL next year. My husband is in the Army, and any legal trouble could affect him greatly!-=-
Then meet the state requirement for subject content and time!
Design your own curriculum, or use the outline of another curriculum, and then play, explore, watch movies, do art, on those subjects, and keep notes (or maybe a blog) so that you, your husband, and anyone else sees how much time and energy you're putting into each area, and if you do this while you're reading about unschooling, you'll start to see how many ways people can learn outside of textbooks and worksheets, enough that you really, deeply understand how to homeschool that way.
There are ideas here:
http://sandradodd.com/checklists
http://sandradodd.com/strewing
http://sandradodd.com/movies (not the particular movies, but the ideas of following trails)
http://sandradodd.com/connections
And find some locals!
http://sandradodd.com/world
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
The front page says this list isn't for discussing laws. That should be done locally. Find some people in North Carolina to talk to.
But no matter what they say, there are laws and you either need to have your kids in school or take an option the law allows. Don't tell the state "I don't need to follow your laws because I'm unschooling." Unschooling is a method of homeschooling just as The Open Classroom is a method of education, but someone who's going to run an open classroom school, or a "freeschool," or any other sort of alternative school, needs to understand the laws well enough to describe what they're doing within those laws, and so does each unschooler.
We can't insert unschooling into a person the way we could sell them a refrigerator and come install it. It's something the parents have to learn, gradually, and really understand.
If you're having any sort of dealings with officials of the government or school administration or hostile relatives, make more conservative choices until you're confident enough to describe what you're doing in the terms that fit the jurisdiction. That's not the purpose of this discussion. But the philosophical part that will apply anywhere is that there ARE laws, and either leaning toward or rushing fully toward unschooling doesn't change that fact.
Some people are in a position to ignore some laws better than other people are. But it's homeschooling (or private school, in California, or "education otherwise" or home education in England), and then, as a method, it might be unschooling, but that's not what you tell the state, because it's too particular.
My best analogy for this is if someone in North Carolina asks me where I live, I'll just say New Mexico. If someone from Albuquerque asks me, I say near Juan Tabo and Candelaria. If someone in Australia asks me, I say "The U.S."
If another unschooler asks me, I say "radical unschooling." If I'm talking to a stranger who knows nothing about homeschooling, I say "homeschooling." Unless they ask for more particulars, more particulars don't even make sense.
If someone from Australia says, "Oh, I used to live in Albuquerque--up near the mountains," then I can ask them where, and tell them how far from there my house is.
If you have an intact marriage, friendly relatives and neighbors and you're not in any trouble with child services, then don't worry too much about laws. If you do have legal entanglements, buying a curriculum might be a good idea until you understand unschooling better. You don't have to use it exactly as is recommended, but you would have it.
If we can discuss this all in such a general way that it will help people in all different countries, I'm willing to discuss it.
Finding out what local laws are and finding out how people in one's own country/state/district comply with those laws is part of the cost and reality of unschooling, and has to be done by each family. If that's too difficult to do, then unschooling will be beyond their abilities.
-=- they say I am not meeting the states requirement for subject content and time. We live in North Carolina right now but will be moving to FL next year. My husband is in the Army, and any legal trouble could affect him greatly!-=-
Then meet the state requirement for subject content and time!
Design your own curriculum, or use the outline of another curriculum, and then play, explore, watch movies, do art, on those subjects, and keep notes (or maybe a blog) so that you, your husband, and anyone else sees how much time and energy you're putting into each area, and if you do this while you're reading about unschooling, you'll start to see how many ways people can learn outside of textbooks and worksheets, enough that you really, deeply understand how to homeschool that way.
There are ideas here:
http://sandradodd.com/checklists
http://sandradodd.com/strewing
http://sandradodd.com/movies (not the particular movies, but the ideas of following trails)
http://sandradodd.com/connections
And find some locals!
http://sandradodd.com/world
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
CarenKH
-=-If we can discuss this all in such a general way that it will help people in all different countries, I'm willing to discuss it.
I contacted Jessica off-list about particulars, but there is no legal requirement in NC for subject content and time. There are *recommendations* written on the state's site, but those are not the law.
Caren
>I recommend reading the actual laws. Different sites and groups will give you different interpretations of the law; you have more power if you look up the laws and read them yourself!
> Finding out what local laws are and finding out how people in one's own country/state/district comply with those laws is part of the cost and reality of unschooling, and has to be done by each family. If that's too difficult to do, then unschooling will be beyond their abilities.-=-
I contacted Jessica off-list about particulars, but there is no legal requirement in NC for subject content and time. There are *recommendations* written on the state's site, but those are not the law.
Caren
Sandra Dodd
-=- Different sites and groups will give you different interpretations of the law; you have more power if you look up the laws and read them yourself!-=-
I think everyone should know their own local laws, definitely.
Thanks for checking on NC.
The problem with *only* reading the laws and not finding out how others have dealt with the registration or paperwork is that a family could overshoot the mark, and over-comply or worry more than necessary.
For instance, when my state required that we submit out school calendar, it helped to let other people know that two accepted answers had been "We follow the local district's calendar" and "We learn every day, rather than just 180 days."
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I think everyone should know their own local laws, definitely.
Thanks for checking on NC.
The problem with *only* reading the laws and not finding out how others have dealt with the registration or paperwork is that a family could overshoot the mark, and over-comply or worry more than necessary.
For instance, when my state required that we submit out school calendar, it helped to let other people know that two accepted answers had been "We follow the local district's calendar" and "We learn every day, rather than just 180 days."
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lydia
****I recommend reading the actual laws.***
Reading the law will tell you exactly who has authority over home schooled families in your area. Then don't discuss your children's education with anyone else who may be hostile to unschooling or homeschooling.
Reading the law will tell you exactly who has authority over home schooled families in your area. Then don't discuss your children's education with anyone else who may be hostile to unschooling or homeschooling.
Pam Sorooshian
There are states like California or Texas or the other states where there
are no homeschooling laws. Court cases and private school laws - they are
sometimes difficult to understand and interpret and it is very beneficial
to speak to long-time homeschoolers in your own state who have experience
and knowledge about how the laws have been implemented over the years.
-pam
are no homeschooling laws. Court cases and private school laws - they are
sometimes difficult to understand and interpret and it is very beneficial
to speak to long-time homeschoolers in your own state who have experience
and knowledge about how the laws have been implemented over the years.
-pam
On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 9:18 AM, Lydia <chozebah@...> wrote:
> ****I recommend reading the actual laws.***
>
> Reading the law will tell you exactly who has authority over home schooled
> families in your area. Then don't discuss your children's education with
> anyone else who may be hostile to unschooling or homeschooling.
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Meredith
Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
And you can miss important details *just* reading home-school laws, particularly in places with an umbrella school option, since technically that puts you in the "private school" category not the "home-school" category and the laws are different for each.
---Meredith
>> The problem with *only* reading the laws and not finding out how others have dealt with the registration or paperwork is that a family could overshoot the mark, and over-comply or worry more than necessary.****************
And you can miss important details *just* reading home-school laws, particularly in places with an umbrella school option, since technically that puts you in the "private school" category not the "home-school" category and the laws are different for each.
---Meredith