VanessaL

My son is four and believes in Santa. Last year it was exciting to help fulfill this fantasy. I didn't plan to have Santa or not but he discovered him and we loved playing along. He loves all Christmas things and Santa fit right in.

This year I feel dishonest. He hasn't asked me if he was real but he is very wise to anything that is out of place. I had wrapped a few presents for a long plane ride we took recently and he found a quarter inch sliver of cardboard I cut off from the box and asked me about it. It's tough to surprise him. He notices quite a bit.I worry that he'll ask me about him and I'm not sure what I would say. He seems to really want to believe him to be real. I wouldn't want him to feel betrayed.

I've read a few interesting articles on how to do both by having Santa gifts but presenting him as a mythical figure at the beginning. I feel it's too late for that. Is it?

http://www.naturalchild.org/jan_hunt/santa.html

How have others done Santa?

Thanks,
Vanessa

Tova

This is exactly why I have never claimed that Santa is real with my daughter. Firstly, it's not the truth and secondly I can understand all your feelings about hurting or betraying your child. It isn't too late to tell him the truth. Do it now! In our house we have always played Santa, but it has always been an imaginative game and she has always known that he isn't real. She is 11 now and we still play the game and it's still magical and fun. But that's always all it's ever been, just a fun game. It's hard to understand when some parents take it a step further.




--- On Fri, 12/2/11, VanessaL <fancyness07@...> wrote:

From: VanessaL <fancyness07@...>
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Santa
To: [email protected]
Date: Friday, December 2, 2011, 11:53 PM








 









My son is four and believes in Santa. Last year it was exciting to help fulfill this fantasy. I didn't plan to have Santa or not but he discovered him and we loved playing along. He loves all Christmas things and Santa fit right in.



This year I feel dishonest. He hasn't asked me if he was real but he is very wise to anything that is out of place. I had wrapped a few presents for a long plane ride we took recently and he found a quarter inch sliver of cardboard I cut off from the box and asked me about it. It's tough to surprise him. He notices quite a bit.I worry that he'll ask me about him and I'm not sure what I would say. He seems to really want to believe him to be real. I wouldn't want him to feel betrayed.



I've read a few interesting articles on how to do both by having Santa gifts but presenting him as a mythical figure at the beginning. I feel it's too late for that. Is it?



http://www.naturalchild.org/jan_hunt/santa.html



How have others done Santa?



Thanks,

Vanessa






















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Denise Jordan

"He seems to really want to believe him to be real. I wouldn't want him to feel betrayed. "

My opinion, I grew up believing as did my children and most of all my friends. None of us felt betrayed when we learned the truth. You just know it's a mythical character and you understand why your parents let you believe. He will in time realize deer don't fly and will ask or like my son who never ask, he just knew and not once has either of my children, nor I, questioned this. Just enjoy what he's thinking and the rest will come but I do not think he will feel betrayed. Just don't continue telling him he's real if he ask. My daughter ask and I was honest. Denise






To: [email protected]
From: fancyness07@...
Date: Sat, 3 Dec 2011 04:53:11 +0000
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Santa






My son is four and believes in Santa. Last year it was exciting to help fulfill this fantasy. I didn't plan to have Santa or not but he discovered him and we loved playing along. He loves all Christmas things and Santa fit right in.

This year I feel dishonest. He hasn't asked me if he was real but he is very wise to anything that is out of place. I had wrapped a few presents for a long plane ride we took recently and he found a quarter inch sliver of cardboard I cut off from the box and asked me about it. It's tough to surprise him. He notices quite a bit.I worry that he'll ask me about him and I'm not sure what I would say. He seems to really want to believe him to be real. I wouldn't want him to feel betrayed.

I've read a few interesting articles on how to do both by having Santa gifts but presenting him as a mythical figure at the beginning. I feel it's too late for that. Is it?

http://www.naturalchild.org/jan_hunt/santa.html

How have others done Santa?

Thanks,
Vanessa






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-It isn't too late to tell him the truth. Do it now!-=-

EASY.
Cruelty is cruelty.

Some parents, thinking they're being honest and progressive, kill all the joy of Santa AND tell their kids that all the other parents are big liars who don't love their children as much as this killjoy loves hers.

Somewhere between lying about Santa (which isn't necessary) and exposing the whole thing as a cruel hoax (which it isn't) are countless other and sweeter resting places.

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Meredith

"VanessaL" <fancyness07@...> wrote:
>I had wrapped a few presents for a long plane ride we took recently and he found a quarter inch sliver of cardboard I cut off from the box and asked me about it.
****************

What did you tell him? In the past I've asked my kids "do you want this present now or wait until (xmas, birthday)?" Sometimes they want to wait! Sometimes the wait is part of the fun. For a long trip, if I bought something especially for the ride I'd generally get something to give right away. Now that Mo's 10, I can tell her "I'm getting this for the trip, so you have something to do in the car" and she understands - she's been on trips before, after all.

>>It's tough to surprise him.

You don't have to surprise him, necessarily. Some people associate gift giving with surprises, but they don't have to be part of the same thing. If he likes to be surprised, there are other ways to play with surprise without tying it to holidays and gifts.

>>I worry that he'll ask me about him and I'm not sure what I would say. He seems to really want to believe him to be real. I wouldn't want him to feel betrayed.
*****************

Maybe you could casually ask him what he wants to do about xmas - does he want to play the Santa game again? Would He like to give a "Santa gift" to someone? Keep away from "do you believe in Santa?" unless he brings it up - its a Loaded question! Little kids ask it of each other in tense voices which suggest there's a Right Answer and he may have picked up on that, but you don't have to play along.

But also know that some kids will Believe even if you say "nope, Santa's not real" and they get no santa presents at all! Mo was like that for awhile. It's like Believing is more important than the object of the belief to some kids, for awhile.

---Meredith

Gwynn Raimondi

We do Santa in our home. Both my husband and I grew up believing in Santa,
and neither of us felt betrayed when we figured it out.

I think there's a joy and wonder and spirit of giving that comes with
Santa. That's just my take.

I've also read to my daughter about the real St. Nicholas and she's
starting to piece things together. Last year (when she 3.5) I even told her
that Santa was based on St. Nicholas. But this year she seems to have
forgotten that, and I'm fine with that.

I found this link on Pinterest the other day:
http://www.cozi.com/live-simply/truth-about-santa I plan on copying her
letter, or a making my own version of it, or tell my girl my own version of
it, when the time comes. The letter this mama wrote really speaks to what I
believe in my heart about Santa.

Hope that helps some.

gwynn

On Sat, Dec 3, 2011 at 7:05 AM, Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> -=-It isn't too late to tell him the truth. Do it now!-=-
>
> EASY.
> Cruelty is cruelty.
>
> Some parents, thinking they're being honest and progressive, kill all the
> joy of Santa AND tell their kids that all the other parents are big liars
> who don't love their children as much as this killjoy loves hers.
>
> Somewhere between lying about Santa (which isn't necessary) and exposing
> the whole thing as a cruel hoax (which it isn't) are countless other and
> sweeter resting places.
>
> Sandra
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

MaryB

My two cents on the topic...

We absolutely love and adore Christmas in our home, the lights, the songs, the festivities. We do not celebrate for any religious reasons, this is just fun.

As for Santa, we believe...we all do because Santa is not a single person to our family but a "feeling" a special kindness shared between people. One of the classic Christmas claymations has Mrs. Claus dancing about singing ...anyone can be Santa anybody at all...and we grabbed onto that idea and ran with it many years ago when our oldest was a baby.

Since anyone can be Santa my kids see every kindness as "that person is being Santa" and they love the whole secret Santa thing, giving a warm blanket to an elderly neighbor wrapped up in a bow on their porch, sneaking to take down trash cans on trash day for the new mom around the block. My kids love giving gifts to friends and family, they love that they can be the gift giver and be part of the "magic." As the parents, my spouse and I also LOOK to see the magic everywhere, a kind person that offers my children a mint to distract them for a moment in the grocery store line because there is only one little cashier working and the line goes on for miles. (Well, Hello Santa) A friend, that did not even know we wanted to go see a family member, offers to watch our pets so we can go visiting over night. An unexpected and forgotten refund check coming in the mail that allowed us to get a Christmas gift for our kids the year we where out of work. If you want to believe in Santa or kindness shared it is easy to see it everywhere. We choose to believe.

So for my two cents...I ask why say NO, why say no there is no Santa, when instead you can say YES and isn't it WONDERFUL!

"Because, anyone can be Santa, yes anybody at all..."


(o:

Mary B



--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
> -=-It isn't too late to tell him the truth. Do it now!-=-
>
> EASY.
> Cruelty is cruelty.
>
> Some parents, thinking they're being honest and progressive, kill all the joy of Santa AND tell their kids that all the other parents are big liars who don't love their children as much as this killjoy loves hers.
>
> Somewhere between lying about Santa (which isn't necessary) and exposing the whole thing as a cruel hoax (which it isn't) are countless other and sweeter resting places.
>
> Sandra
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Kelly Halldorson

-=-Cruelty is cruelty. Some parents, thinking they're being honest and progressive, kill all the joy of Santa AND tell their kids that all the other parents are big liars who don't love their children as much as this killjoy loves hers. Somewhere between lying about Santa (which isn't necessary) and exposing the whole thing as a cruel hoax (which it isn't) are countless other and sweeter resting places.-=-
My mother did this. She told me from as early as I remember that there was no Santa, that *she* was the one who bought the presents. Interestingly, my grandfather and other relatives would still sign presents from Santa. She told me they were lying to me.
As a result of this perceived injustice, I told many of my friends their parents were lying to them also. That did not prove to be the compassionate course of action I thought it to be.
The irony being up until the age of 13 my mother was involved in an on again off again relationship with my alcoholic and abusive father. One Christmas Eve my father beat up my mother. She was left with a fat lip and bruised face. I was picked up by an aunt and brought to Christmas dinner with my grandparents. I was coached to lie about the reason my mother was staying home to the very relatives who were so wrong for lying to me about Santa.
Sandra is right. There must be some kind middle ground...one of motivated by joy, love, caring, play and imagination.
Playful games of imagination – like stories of Santa- are hardly the worst “lies” told to children and most certainly not worst injustice. For those that think otherwise I wonder if they pause movies or interrupt a child reading a book to remind them it’s all fake?
When my children were little we didn’t “do” Santa but we didn’t “not do” Santa either. I don’t remember signing anything from Santa though Jeff may have and other family members most certainly did. I didn’t call him a liar. I didn’t call the family members liars. I just read the tags when they could not allowed for them to come to their own conclusions. We watched Christmas shows with them. I read Christmas stories to them, including ones about Jesus (despite being agnostic myself). I never told them Santa existed nor did I tell them he didn’t...until they asked me.
I think handling things in this way helped my relationship with my kids in other areas. I remember one year we had a blast following Santa’s journey –as a family- on the Weather Channel despite being well past the point of “Is Santa real?” We just watched the progress reports and played along – as a family.
Kelly





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Pam Sorooshian

Some kids are really scared of the idea of Santa coming into their house at
night. My niece was terrified of that. My sister told her that they'd
arranged for Santa to leave her presents at Grandma's house, instead. That
seemed to satisfy her, to a degree, but she was still really anxious about
the whole Santa thing. She was afraid when she saw people dressed as Santa,
for example.

An adult may "get" the whole Santa as the spirit of giving thing, but it is
rationalizing if you think that's how kids are thinking of him - to younger
kids "real" means he is a real person.

Our family doesn't celebrate Christmas at home - Santa doesn't come to our
house and we don't have a Christmas tree, etc., because we have our own
holidays that we love and don't want them to be overshadowed by Christmas.
We party with friends and family and we go out to see the gorgeous
Christmas lights and we enjoy the whole holiday season a LOT, but it isn't
"our" holiday. So my kids knew always that there is no real Santa - as in a
real person who lives at the North Pole, etc. That never stopped them from
enjoying the whole make-believe thing. Somehow they never once conveyed to
any other kid that Santa wasn't totally a real person, because they so
easily and happily went along with all the make-believe. They thought it
was a little odd but also kind of sweet when they'd realize that another
kid actually thought it was all absolutely true. They'd confide quietly to
me, "I think so-and-so thinks Santa is real, Mommy." And I knew they were
being careful not to "break the spell." But - they spent a LOT of time
pretending lots of fictional things were real - this was just more
pretend-play to them - and it was very extensive and imaginative and
grown-ups were playing too! Cool.

I remember my nephew asking me point blank if I thought Santa was real. I
smiled and kept a twinkle in my eye and said something like, "I just don't
know, I guess you have to figure that out for yourself!" He immediately
said, emphatically, "I think he is!" I smiled and nodded and said, "Cool!"
I have heard of MANY kids taking this approach - they might deep inside
know it is pretend, but they choose to live as though they totally believe
it - because it is FUN.

I don't see anything wrong with taking this approach from the beginning. My
family talked about fictional characters as if they were real all the time.
Anne Shirley (Anne of Green Gables), for example, was discussed all the
time as if she was a real person. So were Star Trek characters. Santa fit
right in! I don't think parents should go out of their way to try to make
the kids believe there really is a man living at the North Pole with his
wife and bunch of elves, etc. I was at the soccer field one day when a dad
was telling a young child - maybe 5 years old - "You'd better believe in
Santa or he won't bring you presents."

If I had a kid like the original poster described, who really questions
what is exactly true or not, I wouldn't try to mislead, but would treat it
like a really fun and wonderful pretend game. If a child straight-out asked
if it was true, I would ask them what they think? I would probably say,
"It's pretty fun to think of it as true, so let's just do that." If the
child didn't like that answer and really wanted to lay the "truth" out
there - I'd say, "No, it isn't real that there is a real santa living in
the north pole and riding a sleigh with reindeer and all that. But it sure
is fun to pretend all that, right?"

So, bottom line for me, it isn't going to hurt the child to know the truth
- if the child really does want to know. My kids always knew. The real
issue is whether the adult is going to play along or squash the fun.
Sitting a kid down for a serious talk about how it is time for him to "know
the truth" sounds just awful - way to suck the joy out of the season!

-pam


On Sat, Dec 3, 2011 at 11:26 AM, MaryB <bautmama@...> wrote:

> So for my two cents...I ask why say NO, why say no there is no Santa, when
> instead you can say YES and isn't it WONDERFUL!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tova

I'm curious what others think about the religious aspect: if a parent is religious and pretends Santa is real and then the kids find out he was make believe, do they also question the reality of Jesus?
Another aspect that concerns me is what about children from poor families who get small amounts in their stocking or none at all. Are those kids not loved by Santa? Are the kids who get loads of toys in their stockings loved by Santa more? I always found that to be a flaw with letting kids assume that Santa is real. What do you all think?

--- On Sat, 12/3/11, Kelly Halldorson <kelly@...> wrote:

From: Kelly Halldorson <kelly@...>
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Santa
To: [email protected]
Date: Saturday, December 3, 2011, 2:47 PM








 









-=-Cruelty is cruelty. Some parents, thinking they're being honest and progressive, kill all the joy of Santa AND tell their kids that all the other parents are big liars who don't love their children as much as this killjoy loves hers. Somewhere between lying about Santa (which isn't necessary) and exposing the whole thing as a cruel hoax (which it isn't) are countless other and sweeter resting places.-=-

My mother did this. She told me from as early as I remember that there was no Santa, that *she* was the one who bought the presents. Interestingly, my grandfather and other relatives would still sign presents from Santa. She told me they were lying to me.

As a result of this perceived injustice, I told many of my friends their parents were lying to them also. That did not prove to be the compassionate course of action I thought it to be.

The irony being up until the age of 13 my mother was involved in an on again off again relationship with my alcoholic and abusive father. One Christmas Eve my father beat up my mother. She was left with a fat lip and bruised face. I was picked up by an aunt and brought to Christmas dinner with my grandparents. I was coached to lie about the reason my mother was staying home to the very relatives who were so wrong for lying to me about Santa.

Sandra is right. There must be some kind middle ground...one of motivated by joy, love, caring, play and imagination.

Playful games of imagination – like stories of Santa- are hardly the worst “lies” told to children and most certainly not worst injustice. For those that think otherwise I wonder if they pause movies or interrupt a child reading a book to remind them it’s all fake?

When my children were little we didn’t “do” Santa but we didn’t “not do” Santa either. I don’t remember signing anything from Santa though Jeff may have and other family members most certainly did. I didn’t call him a liar. I didn’t call the family members liars. I just read the tags when they could not allowed for them to come to their own conclusions. We watched Christmas shows with them. I read Christmas stories to them, including ones about Jesus (despite being agnostic myself). I never told them Santa existed nor did I tell them he didn’t...until they asked me.

I think handling things in this way helped my relationship with my kids in other areas. I remember one year we had a blast following Santa’s journey –as a family- on the Weather Channel despite being well past the point of “Is Santa real?” We just watched the progress reports and played along – as a family.

Kelly



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-If I had a kid like the original poster described, who really questions
what is exactly true or not, I wouldn't try to mislead, but would treat it
like a really fun and wonderful pretend game. If a child straight-out asked
if it was true, I would ask them what they think? I would probably say,
"It's pretty fun to think of it as true, so let's just do that." If the
child didn't like that answer and really wanted to lay the "truth" out
there - I'd say, "No, it isn't real that there is a real santa living in
the north pole and riding a sleigh with reindeer and all that. But it sure
is fun to pretend all that, right?"-=-

With my kids, when they got to asking about whether it was real, I would say things like "All I know is when I was little I put my stocking up and got stuff in it, and I think you should put one up, too."

I would say some people didn't believe in Santa and some people did. I would say "I've never seen him." I would tell them the "Santas" at malls were guys hired to dress up like Santa so the parents could find out what the kids wanted for Christmas.

We never marked "from Santa" on a gift. Whatever was in or near the stocking (unwrapped) was "a Santa present" and wrapped gifts were marked from mom and dad or whatever.

I never elaborated on any stories, and never lied. I would read books to them but they didn't consider Santa to be more or less real than Bert and Ernie, or Ninja Turtles. I read nativity books, too. When they asked whether Jesus was real and whether that all happened, I would say some people think so, and some people don't. Some of it matches other religions' mythology. Some of it's probably true.

It didn't bother them for me not to sort scientific evidence from literature from tradition from Sesame Street. They're pretty bright kids, and figured things out without me making it hard for them, and without me giving them "all the answers." My opinion of "all the answers" doesn't match other people's anyway. I've never known two people to agree on everything. Not best friends, not twins, not the loviest couple.

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Meredith

> We do Santa in our home. Both my husband and I grew up believing in Santa,
> and neither of us felt betrayed when we figured it out.

Some families go a bit nutty on the Santa hoax - my parents did. They actively did things to make it look like Santa had visited and told stories of hearing noises on the roof or just missing seeing him. I don't think my younger brother bought it all as long as I did, but I definitely felt betrayed when I found out it had all been an elaborate lie. I don't think anyone's suggesting doing that (I hope not!) but wanted to point out that some people Do feel betrayed and bring a good bit of baggage to this subject.

> I think there's a joy and wonder and spirit of giving that comes with
> Santa.

For some there can be, but kids are different. Some take things more seriously than others. Some fall right in with the game. Some catch on to the whole "spirit of giving" thing and see Santa as part of that. Some get their feelings hurt and end up bitter about it.

Kids find joy and wonder in the world whether or not you create fantasies for them. They create their own, sometimes, and at others they marvel at the world without needing any more than bare bones reality. Sometimes parents resist that kind of wonder - the kind that comes from admiring a sleek piece of plastic or an ordinary bit of gravel - but kids, especially little kids, have a marvelous capacity for awe. They don't mind a bit of fantasy, but they don't need it to know the world is miraculous, so long as they have lots of opportunities to be joyful and to wonder without being told "stop that, put it down, come here, don't dawdle, you don't want that, that's nothing special."

One year, Mo got all excited about the idea it would snow for xmas. I suppose she saw all the cards and tv specials and displays and magazines and thought snow was automatic for the day. We live in Tennessee and I think it's snowed once on xmas in the last 20years. We get snow in late January, but not for xmas. I tried to gently warn her, but she wasn't interested. She'd seen the literature: xmas meant snow. So when it didn't snow that year xmas officially was a disaster as far as Morgan was concerned. My little girl spent the day in tears because the world had not lived up to her expectations. It was a sad day, but it didn't ruin xmas or winter or snow forever. She didn't lose her ability to wonder and dance in the snow.

People get all wound up about Santa and "making" the day special, as if a day of fun and presents and fancy food and toys stuffed into socks wasn't special enough. Santa can be a fun game or a sweet metaphor, but you don't need a magic visitor to make a day lovely, and the absence of one doesn't ruin that day forever.

---Meredith

DeborahM

>>>> How have others done Santa? <<<<

When I was a child, my parents let us believe in Santa. I don't think they introduced the idea, or played it up too much, but they played along with our ideas, and it was fun. The biggest gifts, like bikes, were always from Santa.

When I was around five or six, I started thinking harder about it and decided that each family had its own Santa, and mine was my grandfather. He always came to visit us at Christmas, after all! It was a fun way to continue the game without believing that one guy could visit the home of every Christmas-celebrating family in the world in one night. That evolved into a belief, as others on this thread have said, that Santa is a state of being that anyone can take part in. When I was a teenager, I started working with my little sister to stuff our parents' stockings, which rocked my dad's world a little (he always wanted to be the last to the stockings so his gifts would be surprises), but he played along.

Now that I'm mom to a 7-year-old daughter and a 3-year-old son, my husband and I do Santa -- playing along with our kids' ideas, as long as they are playing happily rather than asking us questions -- with the we-are-all-Santa model in the backs of our minds. A year or two ago, when my daughter (now 7) started asking me point-blank if Santa was real, those are the thoughts I shared with her. Not "No," but "Here's how I think about it." A happy side effect of this gentle transition is that my daughter is able to let my son have his years of believing in Santa, without spoiling his fun.

In short: We play along and don't tell unless asked; and we have our fallback (our real beliefs about generosity as a human quality) ready to explain in kid-friendly terms when we are asked.

Happy Holidays!
Deborah

Sandra Dodd

-=-I'm curious what others think about the religious aspect: if a parent is religious and pretends Santa is real and then the kids find out he was make believe, do they also question the reality of Jesus?
Another aspect that concerns me is what about children from poor families who get small amounts in their stocking or none at all. Are those kids not loved by Santa? Are the kids who get loads of toys in their stockings loved by Santa more? I always found that to be a flaw with letting kids assume that Santa is real. What do you all think?-=-

First, I think those aren't unschooling questions. I'm willing to have them discussed here, but you would have those same issues whether or not you were unschooling.

-=-I'm curious what others think about the religious aspect: if a parent is religious and pretends Santa is real and then the kids find out he was make believe, do they also question the reality of Jesus? -=-

Anyone who doesn't question the reality of Jesus can't really have chosen to "believe in" him. How can you have accountability and "accept Jesus" if there's no question of existence? Choices, again. If you didn't think of at least two options before you acted, you acted thoughtlessly.

-=-Another aspect that concerns me is what about children from poor families who get small amounts in their stocking or none at all. Are those kids not loved by Santa? Are the kids who get loads of toys in their stockings loved by Santa more? I always found that to be a flaw with letting kids assume that Santa is real. What do you all think?--=-

I think that if you dwell in sorrow that your own Christmas (home, life) will be sad and you won't be there to cheer your children.

If you find ways to make your children's lives joyful, there will be more joy in the world.

http://sandradodd.com/abundance
http://sandradodd.com/negativity

Sandra






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tina Tarbutton

On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 11:53 PM, VanessaL <fancyness07@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
>
> How have others done Santa?
>
>
We were one of the families that really played it up. We baked cookies for
Santa and left out carrots for the reindeer, on Christmas morning there
would be some half eaten cookies and some strangely chewed up carrots on
the plate. Santa wrote letters and everything.

In hindsight I wish I wouldn't have played that much into it. Draven (my
11 y/o) was one of the ones who felt really betrayed. I tried to play off
the whole spirit of Santa idea, even explaining to him how he had played
Santa to a few families when he donated toys around Christmas time, and how
we had some people play Santa to us on years that we were exceptionally
poor and didn't have money for a tree or gifts. He gets the whole idea
behind the spirit of Santa, but truly feels we lied to him for many years.

He just told me he doesn't even want to set up a tree this year because
Santa isn't real, so why decorate. His feelings of betrayal have put a
dimmer on the season for us for the last 2 years, but I don't think it'll
last forever.

If I had it to do over again I wouldn't play so much into the make believe.
I would let the child lead and I'd follow. Instead of making traditions
of leaving out cookies starting when they were little, I wouldn't leave
cookies out unless I was asked to by the child. My mom never marked gifts
as being from Santa, instead some gifts were marked from Mom and Dad, and
other gifts were unlabeled, I think that's a better idea.

I completely believe in the spirit of Santa. We had a few years where we
were too poor to provide gifts and close friends donated toys to us so we
could have a Christmas. One year we moved to another state leaving almost
everything behind and a few days before Christmas a box was delivered to us
"from Santa" containing a small tree and everything we needed to decorate
it. I never found out who sent that box. We've always gone through the
house in early December cleaning out unused toys and other household stuff
and donating them to a family in need.

I wish I would have put more emphasis on the spirit and less on the person.

Tina


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Meredith

Tina Tarbutton <tina.tarbutton@...> wrote:
>Instead of making traditions
> of leaving out cookies starting when they were little, I wouldn't leave
> cookies out unless I was asked to by the child.

There's a marvelous point in there. It's really normal to want to give traditions to your kids, but sometimes those traditions can get in the way of relationships, rather than building them up. But its also possible to grow little family traditions based on what kids find wonderful - to let children help create them. Traditions aren't inherently good or bad, they don't inherently bring people closer together - it's how individual family members react to them which is important.

---Meredith

Julie Hilbert

We've never "done Santa" in our house, I don't think it is truthful
either. However, since you've already started with your son last year,
it may be more difficult to change your plans.
We've always focused more on the legend of St. Nicholas and how he was
the "beginning" of Santa Claus but HE represents a spirit of giving to
others, and each year we read the book, "Santa Are You For Real" by
Harold Myra. This picture book tells the story of a young boy (probably
your son's age) who believes in Santa but hears all the older kids
teasing him because he does and asks his dad about it and his dad tells
him the story of St. Nicholas. It VERY gently leads into the subject
and yet keeps the "mystery" of Santa exciting. Very good book. It IS a
religious book of course, but it mostly focuses on St. Nicholas and what
he did.
When my daughter was about 6 or 7, she asked me if we could leave out
cookies and milk for Santa. "I know he isn't real" she states, "but I
just want to pretend he is. I thought that was perfectly fine so we
made some cookies especially for Santa each year since then and either
her dad or I would eat a couple or take bites out of them and drink the
milk. It was a fun little tradition and we would all laugh about it and
"pretend" that Santa had come and eaten them. :) We've had many
discussions about it through the years and she knows not to reveal
anything to her cousins, etc. who do 'believe', just out of respect for
how their family wants to celebrate the holidays. She's 15 now and I
am glad I made the choice to raise her telling the truth but letting her
"fantasize"...I think it's the honest way to do it. That's my two
cents (or was that like fifty?) lol
Hope that helps!
Julie

--- In [email protected], "VanessaL" <fancyness07@...>
wrote:
>
> My son is four and believes in Santa. Last year it was exciting to
help fulfill this fantasy. I didn't plan to have Santa or not but he
discovered him and we loved playing along. He loves all Christmas things
and Santa fit right in.
>
> This year I feel dishonest. He hasn't asked me if he was real but he
is very wise to anything that is out of place. I had wrapped a few
presents for a long plane ride we took recently and he found a quarter
inch sliver of cardboard I cut off from the box and asked me about it.
It's tough to surprise him. He notices quite a bit.I worry that he'll
ask me about him and I'm not sure what I would say. He seems to really
want to believe him to be real. I wouldn't want him to feel betrayed.
>
> I've read a few interesting articles on how to do both by having Santa
gifts but presenting him as a mythical figure at the beginning. I feel
it's too late for that. Is it?
>
> http://www.naturalchild.org/jan_hunt/santa.html
>
> How have others done Santa?
>
> Thanks,
> Vanessa
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

David and Yvette

We explained "santa" as a role that we as parents carried out in our
children's lives during the Christmas holiday, similar to having
different relationships in our lives: mother to the kids, daughter to
my mother, wife to my husband. ( I hope the examples help)That still
allowed for us to leave out cookies for "Santa" , sign gift tags from
"santa" , etc, without feeling deceptive. The kids are all teen and
older now and we still have things from Santa!



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

VanessaL

Thank you everyone! I got sick shortly after I wrote this question and then things got hectic here at home so I'm just now getting to the replies.

On thing I noticed about my original post was that the the word "betrayed" wasn't my own. I read it and heard others use it and I assumed it would apply to my situation but it probably wouldn't. My kiddo and I have a great relationship and he's a pretty smart cookie already processing all the clues. I don't think it would be the dire situation I witnessed last year when my neighbor's told their 11 year old the Easter bunny wasn't real. He wouldn't speak to them for days. I don't know for sure but since the presents and the fantasy are what my kiddo loves about Santa and since those wouldn't go away, I don't think he'd be "angry." We've discussed things like Jack Frost and Batman in similar conversations.

I do think I'll play things down on my end and follow his lead more. Neither making any blatant falsehoods but playing along when he wants me to. I think his version of what makes Santa real might have another alternative than my black and white he is or isn't perspective. He told me the other day Santa wasn't a person he just was, after he told me the mall Santas were not the real Santa. He would be scared/worried to think of a grown man breaking in so he seems to have a special category for this type of thing. (like batman and jack frost)

Anyhow I wanted to pop in and say Thank You! I got a lot of good ideas and gained a lot of perspective regarding my own situation. I do wish I had starting things a bit differently but I don't think it's anything that can't be dealt with in a sensitive manner when the time comes.

side note: the song "Mommy Kissing Santa Claus" came on the radio today and while we didn't discuss it I could see the little wheels in his head turning. I am constantly amazed at what such young kids are taking in and processing. I know this is awful but as an only child with limited interactions, it wasn't until I became a parent that I realized how whole they really are. Not children who don't know any better at all! I had forgotten what it was like as a child.

Vanessa

Pam Sorooshian

On Fri, Dec 9, 2011 at 7:17 PM, VanessaL <fancyness07@...> wrote:

> side note: the song "Mommy Kissing Santa Claus" came on the radio today
> and while we didn't discuss it I could see the little wheels in his head
> turning.



I remember an actual moment when I was little and heard that song and
thought "AHA - Santa Claus is my daddy and I KNEW it and I was RIGHT!!"

-pam


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Schuyler

Funny, I always figured it was 'cause mommy was a bit free with her affection. Never made the connection.


Schuyler



________________________________
From: Pam Sorooshian <pamsoroosh@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, 10 December 2011, 5:40
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Re: Santa

On Fri, Dec 9, 2011 at 7:17 PM, VanessaL <fancyness07@...> wrote:

> side note: the song "Mommy Kissing Santa Claus" came on the radio today
> and while we didn't discuss it I could see the little wheels in his head
> turning.



I remember an actual moment when I was little and heard that song and
thought "AHA - Santa Claus is my daddy and I KNEW it and I was RIGHT!!"

-pam


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Robin Bentley

> Funny, I always figured it was 'cause mommy was a bit free with her
> affection.

And before the kissing under the mistletoe, sang "Santa Baby"!

I figured they were having an annual tryst a la Alan Alda and Ellen
Burstyn in "Same Time, Next Year" :-)

Robin B.