Limited finances, unlimited desires
Santhy
We have recently started unschooling our 5-yr-old daughter and we're considering radical unschooling. We are a low-income family living in India. My daughter gets to know of the latest toys and snacks through TV ads and asks for them. A lot of them are beyond our means, especially the imported ones. I am wondering how parents with limited budgets respond to their children's requests for unaffordable things.
Also, I am a little unclear on how the principle of always saying 'yes' works with an unlimited budget. Would there be no restrictions on the number of times you can go to the toy store or the number of toys you can choose?
I also want to add that I am completely blown away by how wise and generous some of you are. It has been less than a month since we got our daughter out of school and I cannot believe how far we've come. Sandra's site, Joyce's site and this list have been the source of some of the best parenting advice I have ever got, and I am very grateful for it.
Santhy
Also, I am a little unclear on how the principle of always saying 'yes' works with an unlimited budget. Would there be no restrictions on the number of times you can go to the toy store or the number of toys you can choose?
I also want to add that I am completely blown away by how wise and generous some of you are. It has been less than a month since we got our daughter out of school and I cannot believe how far we've come. Sandra's site, Joyce's site and this list have been the source of some of the best parenting advice I have ever got, and I am very grateful for it.
Santhy
Sandra Dodd
-=-Also, I am a little unclear on how the principle of always saying 'yes' works with an unlimited budget. -=-
There is no principle of always saying yes. I don't want to take down the "yes" page, but if people read more than just the title, I think it should be clear that the intention is to help people stop always saying "no."
http://sandradodd.com/yes
"Something like yes" can be "I wish I could afford to get that for you!" Or "Gosh it would be fun to have one of those; bummer they cost as much as a car payment!" Those are positively MUCH better than "NO, we can't afford it. Don't ask again."
-=-Also, I am a little unclear on how the principle of always saying 'yes' works with an unlimited budget. Would there be no restrictions on the number of times you can go to the toy store or the number of toys you can choose? -=-
Nobody in the whole world has an unlimited budget.
-=-I also want to add that I am completely blown away by how wise and generous some of you are. It has been less than a month since we got our daughter out of school and I cannot believe how far we've come. Sandra's site, Joyce's site and this list have been the source of some of the best parenting advice I have ever got, and I am very grateful for it.
-=-
Thanks.
If the ads on TV are causing serious trouble with your five year old, maybe talk to her about advertising. You could watch some older ads on youtube, and talk about the animation or music or art or whatever, and discuss sponsorship (of parades, fairs, concerts, sports events, web sites, television shows) and what that means. Not at great length, but just casually. Or use more DVDs and less direct TV, maybe. Or be prepared as each commercial starts to distract her with something fun, useful, good--clothes, bathroom, music, art supplies, food, a hug.
Choose positive, peaceful, happy over negative, cranky and cynical.
http://sandradodd.com/parentingpeacefully
http://sandradodd.com/negativity
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
There is no principle of always saying yes. I don't want to take down the "yes" page, but if people read more than just the title, I think it should be clear that the intention is to help people stop always saying "no."
http://sandradodd.com/yes
"Something like yes" can be "I wish I could afford to get that for you!" Or "Gosh it would be fun to have one of those; bummer they cost as much as a car payment!" Those are positively MUCH better than "NO, we can't afford it. Don't ask again."
-=-Also, I am a little unclear on how the principle of always saying 'yes' works with an unlimited budget. Would there be no restrictions on the number of times you can go to the toy store or the number of toys you can choose? -=-
Nobody in the whole world has an unlimited budget.
-=-I also want to add that I am completely blown away by how wise and generous some of you are. It has been less than a month since we got our daughter out of school and I cannot believe how far we've come. Sandra's site, Joyce's site and this list have been the source of some of the best parenting advice I have ever got, and I am very grateful for it.
-=-
Thanks.
If the ads on TV are causing serious trouble with your five year old, maybe talk to her about advertising. You could watch some older ads on youtube, and talk about the animation or music or art or whatever, and discuss sponsorship (of parades, fairs, concerts, sports events, web sites, television shows) and what that means. Not at great length, but just casually. Or use more DVDs and less direct TV, maybe. Or be prepared as each commercial starts to distract her with something fun, useful, good--clothes, bathroom, music, art supplies, food, a hug.
Choose positive, peaceful, happy over negative, cranky and cynical.
http://sandradodd.com/parentingpeacefully
http://sandradodd.com/negativity
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
suprisha
You're right, nobody has an unlimited budget, I should've phrased that better. What I meant to ask was that suppose you can afford to buy most of the stuff available in the store and your child requests for a great number of things, how do you respond? What I am trying to find out is whether there is ever a point of 'too much'. It may not seem like too much to the child but is it ok to get them everything they ask for?
I do talk to her about advertising. Its not just ads, there is so much of attractively packaged stuff everywhere. And I have been trying to say something along the lines of 'I wish I could get that for you' but there is only so much of that a 5-yr-old can take calmly. But you're right that it is much better than a 'No, we can't afford it. Please don't ask again', which, I regret to say, I used to tell her.
Thank you for your suggestions.
Santhy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I do talk to her about advertising. Its not just ads, there is so much of attractively packaged stuff everywhere. And I have been trying to say something along the lines of 'I wish I could get that for you' but there is only so much of that a 5-yr-old can take calmly. But you're right that it is much better than a 'No, we can't afford it. Please don't ask again', which, I regret to say, I used to tell her.
Thank you for your suggestions.
Santhy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
lydia reiter
+++ What I meant to ask was that suppose you can afford to buy most of the
stuff available in the store and your child requests for a great number
of things, how do you respond? +++
I'm assuming that you meant "can't afford." I find it very frustrating to be in a store where I can't afford anything so I avoid those places myself. I try to limit that type of frustration for my children also, but it isn't always possible. I don't know much about India, but in the US there are many alternatives to expensive toys in stores. I let my kids choose things at yard sales, thrift stores, and dollar stores. They can do this often without it costing much money. We don't watch much commercial TV, but prefer DVD's or videos on the computer. So they don't usually know about the newest toys that can't be found at a discount. Letting them choose toys that they like when I can seems to make them more accepting of the times when I can't afford to get them what they want.
Lydia Reiter
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
stuff available in the store and your child requests for a great number
of things, how do you respond? +++
I'm assuming that you meant "can't afford." I find it very frustrating to be in a store where I can't afford anything so I avoid those places myself. I try to limit that type of frustration for my children also, but it isn't always possible. I don't know much about India, but in the US there are many alternatives to expensive toys in stores. I let my kids choose things at yard sales, thrift stores, and dollar stores. They can do this often without it costing much money. We don't watch much commercial TV, but prefer DVD's or videos on the computer. So they don't usually know about the newest toys that can't be found at a discount. Letting them choose toys that they like when I can seems to make them more accepting of the times when I can't afford to get them what they want.
Lydia Reiter
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-I'm assuming that you meant "can't afford." -=-
There's a link at the bottom of each e-mail that says "messages in this topic," in case you want to double-check anything.
She DID mean "can afford," in the context of the discussion to that point.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
There's a link at the bottom of each e-mail that says "messages in this topic," in case you want to double-check anything.
She DID mean "can afford," in the context of the discussion to that point.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
sheeboo2
---Its not just ads, there is so much of attractively packaged stuff everywhere. ----
One of the most helpful suggestions I got a few years ago was to take a child's interest in packaging seriously. Just like the suggestion to see what's appealing about a TV show or computer game, it is helpful to do the same thing, and accord the same respect, to packaging.
If you find less expensive alternatives, or decide to make your own, find little bits of pretty/shiny/sparkly paper or fabric to wrap them in, find elaborate wrapping techniques, cool twist ties, stickers, etc. We make a lot of our own foods, and it was important that I recognized how attractive AND convenient she found pre-packaged foods, so I could make homemade offerings as attractive, if not more so! Noor got involved in making her own packaging for homemade foods, and had a lot of fun making "wrappers."
When she was younger and we'd find toys at thrift stores or yard sales, we'd often wrap them up in paper or fabric (over and over again) once we got them home.
Make the less expensive option as sparkly as the more expensive one.
Brie
One of the most helpful suggestions I got a few years ago was to take a child's interest in packaging seriously. Just like the suggestion to see what's appealing about a TV show or computer game, it is helpful to do the same thing, and accord the same respect, to packaging.
If you find less expensive alternatives, or decide to make your own, find little bits of pretty/shiny/sparkly paper or fabric to wrap them in, find elaborate wrapping techniques, cool twist ties, stickers, etc. We make a lot of our own foods, and it was important that I recognized how attractive AND convenient she found pre-packaged foods, so I could make homemade offerings as attractive, if not more so! Noor got involved in making her own packaging for homemade foods, and had a lot of fun making "wrappers."
When she was younger and we'd find toys at thrift stores or yard sales, we'd often wrap them up in paper or fabric (over and over again) once we got them home.
Make the less expensive option as sparkly as the more expensive one.
Brie
Genevieve Raymond
My kids and I were in a store here in town the other day that sells
beautiful quartz crystals, geodes, minerals, rocks, etc. We are on an
extremely tight budget these days due to a loss of half of our income. But
we had so much fun picking out which one of those crystals each of us
*would* buy if we could. It really was almost as good as (better than?)
buying it. I think in part, it was just the attitude of making it fun. It
was fantasy, a game. We walked out of there, and nobody said "I wish we
really *could* buy one" and nobody's mentioned it since. Kind of reminded
me of when as a kid, I used to circle all the clothes in catalogs that I
wished I could get. (But it was way more fun with geodes!)
Genevieve
beautiful quartz crystals, geodes, minerals, rocks, etc. We are on an
extremely tight budget these days due to a loss of half of our income. But
we had so much fun picking out which one of those crystals each of us
*would* buy if we could. It really was almost as good as (better than?)
buying it. I think in part, it was just the attitude of making it fun. It
was fantasy, a game. We walked out of there, and nobody said "I wish we
really *could* buy one" and nobody's mentioned it since. Kind of reminded
me of when as a kid, I used to circle all the clothes in catalogs that I
wished I could get. (But it was way more fun with geodes!)
Genevieve
On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 3:26 AM, suprisha <suprisha@...> wrote:
> **
>
>
> You're right, nobody has an unlimited budget, I should've phrased that
> better. What I meant to ask was that suppose you can afford to buy most of
> the stuff available in the store and your child requests for a great number
> of things, how do you respond? What I am trying to find out is whether there
> is ever a point of 'too much'. It may not seem like too much to the child
> but is it ok to get them everything they ask for?
>
> I do talk to her about advertising. Its not just ads, there is so much of
> attractively packaged stuff everywhere. And I have been trying to say
> something along the lines of 'I wish I could get that for you' but there is
> only so much of that a 5-yr-old can take calmly. But you're right that it is
> much better than a 'No, we can't afford it. Please don't ask again', which,
> I regret to say, I used to tell her.
>
> Thank you for your suggestions.
>
> Santhy
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joanna
-=---- In [email protected], "suprisha" <suprisha@...> wrote:
Their unschooling lives feel very much like others I know, except that he gets and expects to get more stuff--whether it is toys, classes, trips, etc. But even so, I'm sure there are times that he doesn't. My sense is that it is his mom's engagement with him that is by far the more significant factor in his life. If their circumstances changed, I don't think it would be that big a deal, because she would still find ways to support everything--just at a different level and with more ingenuity.
They don't grapple with the issue of whether it is o.k. to get him what he asks for because there's no need. They just get cool stuff when they find it. I think what you might be asking is whether you need to teach children the value of money by creating artificial limits. When you involve children in your financial life they learn the value of money.
Joanna
>I know a family that has a functionally unlimited budget and their son gets most everything he would like. The mom is one of the coolest unschoolers I know--not because of the "stuff," but because she is relentlessly active in keeping up (and one step ahead of) her creative, active, engaged kid. The "stuff" supports his interests and he is keenly attuned to his interests.
> You're right, nobody has an unlimited budget, I should've phrased that better. What I meant to ask was that suppose you can afford to buy most of the stuff available in the store and your child requests for a great number of things, how do you respond? What I am trying to find out is whether there is ever a point of 'too much'. It may not seem like too much to the child but is it ok to get them everything they ask for?-=-
>
Their unschooling lives feel very much like others I know, except that he gets and expects to get more stuff--whether it is toys, classes, trips, etc. But even so, I'm sure there are times that he doesn't. My sense is that it is his mom's engagement with him that is by far the more significant factor in his life. If their circumstances changed, I don't think it would be that big a deal, because she would still find ways to support everything--just at a different level and with more ingenuity.
They don't grapple with the issue of whether it is o.k. to get him what he asks for because there's no need. They just get cool stuff when they find it. I think what you might be asking is whether you need to teach children the value of money by creating artificial limits. When you involve children in your financial life they learn the value of money.
Joanna
Sandra Dodd
-=- I think what you might be asking is whether you need to teach children the value of money by creating artificial limits. When you involve children in your financial life they learn the value of money. -=-
Oh right! That might be the question.
If so, there are some ideas saved up here:
http://sandradodd.com/spoiled
http://sandradodd.com/money
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Oh right! That might be the question.
If so, there are some ideas saved up here:
http://sandradodd.com/spoiled
http://sandradodd.com/money
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
-=- I think what you might be asking is whether you need to teach children the value of money by creating artificial limits. When you involve children in your financial life they learn the value of money. -=-
Oh right! That might be the question.
If so, there are some ideas saved up here:
http://sandradodd.com/spoiled
http://sandradodd.com/money
Sandra
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
I wrote this 4 years ago (Sandra has it in a page linked to one of the links above):
<<<WE are one of THOSE parents that give everything our kids ask for. Of course if
we financially can at that moment. I have a very intense ds that will be five end
of June and you know what??? We have given him so many presents, big presents,
just because....and ALL the time.
It has not made him "spoiled." If we cannot give him something at that moment we
talk about it and discuss what we can do. He will either choose to wait till we
can or to get something that we can afford that minute. And that can be a small
trinket that costs 50 cents when we are broke.
This past Christmas I kept asking what he wanted. Last Christmas he got so many
presents. He said he wanted to get ME a Nintendo DS so we could play together.
He did not want anything for himself but for his mom.
He will not learn to be spoiled if he gets everything he wants—no one gets
every little thing they want. But he will learn that his parents will try to
give him everything he wants—if possible.
He will learn about family budget and money and economics and most of all he
will learn the joy of giving something that makes a loved one smile.
Alex (the one with spoiled kids)>>>
-=-=-=
It is 4 years later and my son is now 9 years old. We still give him everything that he wants if we CAN( and we have had a very tight budged the last few years!)
He is the child who saves money. He does not ask for all the toys he sees and that look cool. He is very discerning in what he wants.
He wants some games, a handful of toys and to go do things like paintball with his dad.
The other day he had a little over $21 in his saving jar and wanted a game the was $15.
He told me I could keep the change!!!
He thinks about getting things for his sister and has used his money to buy her things he thought she would like.
Last year he saved over $250 dollars for almost a year so we could give him a PS3 for Christmas with his help!
Alex ( the one that still has spoiled kids!)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
-=- I think what you might be asking is whether you need to teach children the value of money by creating artificial limits. When you involve children in your financial life they learn the value of money. -=-
Oh right! That might be the question.
If so, there are some ideas saved up here:
http://sandradodd.com/spoiled
http://sandradodd.com/money
Sandra
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
I wrote this 4 years ago (Sandra has it in a page linked to one of the links above):
<<<WE are one of THOSE parents that give everything our kids ask for. Of course if
we financially can at that moment. I have a very intense ds that will be five end
of June and you know what??? We have given him so many presents, big presents,
just because....and ALL the time.
It has not made him "spoiled." If we cannot give him something at that moment we
talk about it and discuss what we can do. He will either choose to wait till we
can or to get something that we can afford that minute. And that can be a small
trinket that costs 50 cents when we are broke.
This past Christmas I kept asking what he wanted. Last Christmas he got so many
presents. He said he wanted to get ME a Nintendo DS so we could play together.
He did not want anything for himself but for his mom.
He will not learn to be spoiled if he gets everything he wants—no one gets
every little thing they want. But he will learn that his parents will try to
give him everything he wants—if possible.
He will learn about family budget and money and economics and most of all he
will learn the joy of giving something that makes a loved one smile.
Alex (the one with spoiled kids)>>>
-=-=-=
It is 4 years later and my son is now 9 years old. We still give him everything that he wants if we CAN( and we have had a very tight budged the last few years!)
He is the child who saves money. He does not ask for all the toys he sees and that look cool. He is very discerning in what he wants.
He wants some games, a handful of toys and to go do things like paintball with his dad.
The other day he had a little over $21 in his saving jar and wanted a game the was $15.
He told me I could keep the change!!!
He thinks about getting things for his sister and has used his money to buy her things he thought she would like.
Last year he saved over $250 dollars for almost a year so we could give him a PS3 for Christmas with his help!
Alex ( the one that still has spoiled kids!)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
plaidpanties666
"suprisha" <suprisha@...> wrote:
Since the question is irrelevant to your life, why ask it? I mean that as something for you to think about, rather than answer, necessarily. It's not an uncommon question for people with very limited budgets - and often its a source of rationale behind saying "no", in a weird, roundabout way. "You can't always get what you want" - so parents have to say no even when Yes is possible. It's a convoluted bit of reasoning tied up in ideas of "spoiling" children. But children aren't "spoiled" by lots of yesses in their life, they're "spoiled" by having such a lack of love and care they turn to possessions to bolster their self esteem.
It's not actually possible to give a person Everything they could possibly want. The past few days I've wanted four more hours of sleep a night! At times my kids have wanted fun days to go on and on, even when they're getting tired and cranky... so have I for that matter. They've wanted real flying carpets, talking animals, and for the moon to be full every night. Even if you said yes to everything possible, there's plenty of disappointment in the world. It's not necessary to create more just to teach kids how to be disappointed.
There are real limitations in life, and sometimes finances are a source of real limitation. The trouble is, a lot of parents use that as an excuse - "you can't always get what you want" becomes and end-game. Life is hard, sucks it up, kid. When unschoolers say "always say yes or some form of yes" its not ignoring the realities of life, its seeing limits as opportunities to be thoughtful and creative. I can't make the day longer, but we can have another good day tomorrow. I can't buy a flying carpet, but I can look for ways to offer the experience of flying via swings and carnival rides, maybe a zip-line or a trampoline, or flying a kite and watching movies about flying.
As much as you can, take her places where you can say "yes" to what she wants. Offer her things she's likely to find appealing before she can ask. If she likes fancy packaging, wrap things up - all sorts of things. Wrap up plain snacks in saved scraps of shiny paper or cloth. Dress up simple things in fancy packaging of your own.
Something else that can help is not to jump right to "can't get it" even in the sense of "I wish we could get it". Don't start out *implying* that liking means purchasing or owning. What does she like about that thing? Admire it with her. Connect with her sense of fascination, of attraction first, rather than disappointment. That can help both of you shift your perspectives. After all, you can admire a sunset or a bird without falling into envy for not having one all your own. Focusing on the positive is good in and of itself - and its also a way to get ideas for things you *can* offer, things that contain elements she likes.
---Meredith
> What I meant to ask was that suppose you can afford to buy most of the stuff available in the store and your child requests for a great number of things, how do you respond? What I am trying to find out is whether there is ever a point of 'too much'.******************
Since the question is irrelevant to your life, why ask it? I mean that as something for you to think about, rather than answer, necessarily. It's not an uncommon question for people with very limited budgets - and often its a source of rationale behind saying "no", in a weird, roundabout way. "You can't always get what you want" - so parents have to say no even when Yes is possible. It's a convoluted bit of reasoning tied up in ideas of "spoiling" children. But children aren't "spoiled" by lots of yesses in their life, they're "spoiled" by having such a lack of love and care they turn to possessions to bolster their self esteem.
>> It may not seem like too much to the child but is it ok to get them everything they ask for?*****************
It's not actually possible to give a person Everything they could possibly want. The past few days I've wanted four more hours of sleep a night! At times my kids have wanted fun days to go on and on, even when they're getting tired and cranky... so have I for that matter. They've wanted real flying carpets, talking animals, and for the moon to be full every night. Even if you said yes to everything possible, there's plenty of disappointment in the world. It's not necessary to create more just to teach kids how to be disappointed.
There are real limitations in life, and sometimes finances are a source of real limitation. The trouble is, a lot of parents use that as an excuse - "you can't always get what you want" becomes and end-game. Life is hard, sucks it up, kid. When unschoolers say "always say yes or some form of yes" its not ignoring the realities of life, its seeing limits as opportunities to be thoughtful and creative. I can't make the day longer, but we can have another good day tomorrow. I can't buy a flying carpet, but I can look for ways to offer the experience of flying via swings and carnival rides, maybe a zip-line or a trampoline, or flying a kite and watching movies about flying.
>And I have been trying to say something along the lines of 'I wish I could get that for you' but there is only so much of that a 5-yr-old can take calmly.*******************
As much as you can, take her places where you can say "yes" to what she wants. Offer her things she's likely to find appealing before she can ask. If she likes fancy packaging, wrap things up - all sorts of things. Wrap up plain snacks in saved scraps of shiny paper or cloth. Dress up simple things in fancy packaging of your own.
Something else that can help is not to jump right to "can't get it" even in the sense of "I wish we could get it". Don't start out *implying* that liking means purchasing or owning. What does she like about that thing? Admire it with her. Connect with her sense of fascination, of attraction first, rather than disappointment. That can help both of you shift your perspectives. After all, you can admire a sunset or a bird without falling into envy for not having one all your own. Focusing on the positive is good in and of itself - and its also a way to get ideas for things you *can* offer, things that contain elements she likes.
---Meredith
fauxbee
YES!!!!
It seems that this >>>> the concept of yes <<<< is the hardest for us (as newbies) to grasp! It sort of sunk into me recently, and very very slowly. The idea of using "NO tickets" has helped me understand, especially since when I say no, I typically say, no no no no no..... or something to that effect. So one instance of trying to stop one of my children can blow through like five tickets at once. This approach has also caused me to slow way down in my responses, so I can think through the question before I shout NO or say a quick Yessss.
I do make sure to say YES a lot, and I like to draw it out with a long SSSSS sound, because it is such a fun word to say. I still say it less than I will so I make sure to enjoy it each time to encourage myself to say it more!
We have a very tight budget (basically no budget) but I have found that by using redirection, as in the comments such as these
-----Something like yes" can be "I wish I could afford to get that for you!" Or "Gosh it would be fun to have one of those; bummer they cost as much as a car payment!" -----
Or even, avoiding the whole "afford" thing completely and using a phrase like, our priorities are.... whatever it is at the time.... Or even engaging the kids by reminding them of their goals, 'would you rather have X later or this now?', gives them some ownership of the decision and it seems to help. Even a 7 yo can understand why the car needs brake pads if we take the time to explain it to her. AND if you change the brakes yourself the child can see the brake guts. Win!
When my children asked for another cat, I said, "what do you think I'm made of money?"....lol, no I didn't, I said, "We have one cat and that is a comfortable number for our family right now." I might have explained about food and litter and vets, I don't really remember, but I do know that they didn't freak out and scream and beg. They understood, and felt, I assume, respected because I took time to explain it. That does not mean that they wanted the cat any less or that it was a happy moment, just that they could accept it.
I also love to see the results of not buying. For example we attended some teen baseball games (free) recently but chose not to spend our money on bats for our 5 & 7 yo dd, but my oldest came to me and said that she didn't need one anyway because a stick worked just as well. She also made a butterfly net out of a mesh bag from tangerines and a stick. I made sure not to throw it away and she played with it for several days. It might even be around here still.
Say yes more often, not all the time, is how I understand it. It is really working for me.
It seems that this >>>> the concept of yes <<<< is the hardest for us (as newbies) to grasp! It sort of sunk into me recently, and very very slowly. The idea of using "NO tickets" has helped me understand, especially since when I say no, I typically say, no no no no no..... or something to that effect. So one instance of trying to stop one of my children can blow through like five tickets at once. This approach has also caused me to slow way down in my responses, so I can think through the question before I shout NO or say a quick Yessss.
I do make sure to say YES a lot, and I like to draw it out with a long SSSSS sound, because it is such a fun word to say. I still say it less than I will so I make sure to enjoy it each time to encourage myself to say it more!
We have a very tight budget (basically no budget) but I have found that by using redirection, as in the comments such as these
-----Something like yes" can be "I wish I could afford to get that for you!" Or "Gosh it would be fun to have one of those; bummer they cost as much as a car payment!" -----
Or even, avoiding the whole "afford" thing completely and using a phrase like, our priorities are.... whatever it is at the time.... Or even engaging the kids by reminding them of their goals, 'would you rather have X later or this now?', gives them some ownership of the decision and it seems to help. Even a 7 yo can understand why the car needs brake pads if we take the time to explain it to her. AND if you change the brakes yourself the child can see the brake guts. Win!
When my children asked for another cat, I said, "what do you think I'm made of money?"....lol, no I didn't, I said, "We have one cat and that is a comfortable number for our family right now." I might have explained about food and litter and vets, I don't really remember, but I do know that they didn't freak out and scream and beg. They understood, and felt, I assume, respected because I took time to explain it. That does not mean that they wanted the cat any less or that it was a happy moment, just that they could accept it.
I also love to see the results of not buying. For example we attended some teen baseball games (free) recently but chose not to spend our money on bats for our 5 & 7 yo dd, but my oldest came to me and said that she didn't need one anyway because a stick worked just as well. She also made a butterfly net out of a mesh bag from tangerines and a stick. I made sure not to throw it away and she played with it for several days. It might even be around here still.
Say yes more often, not all the time, is how I understand it. It is really working for me.
JustSayin
I just had to disagree with this:
".... they're "spoiled" by having such a lack of love and care they turn to possessions to bolster their self esteem."
My oldest son is a collector - he gets interested in something and he doesn't rest until he has completed a set of whatever it is. I think he sort of sets a goal for himself and then accomplishes it.
He was always a great "shopper" ;> even when he was very small. He enjoyed coming with me to any store and was interested in so many different things. Because things are interesting!
I don't think he's collecting or wanting things to "bolster his self esteem" so I'd be a little careful about making those generalizations - some kids (and adults) like "stuff" and some don't. It doesn't necessarily represent a personality flaw if someone is one way or the other.
--Melissa
".... they're "spoiled" by having such a lack of love and care they turn to possessions to bolster their self esteem."
My oldest son is a collector - he gets interested in something and he doesn't rest until he has completed a set of whatever it is. I think he sort of sets a goal for himself and then accomplishes it.
He was always a great "shopper" ;> even when he was very small. He enjoyed coming with me to any store and was interested in so many different things. Because things are interesting!
I don't think he's collecting or wanting things to "bolster his self esteem" so I'd be a little careful about making those generalizations - some kids (and adults) like "stuff" and some don't. It doesn't necessarily represent a personality flaw if someone is one way or the other.
--Melissa
--- In [email protected], "plaidpanties666" <plaidpanties666@...> wrote:
>
> "suprisha" <suprisha@> wrote:
> > What I meant to ask was that suppose you can afford to buy most of the stuff available in the store and your child requests for a great number of things, how do you respond? What I am trying to find out is whether there is ever a point of 'too much'.
> ******************
>
> Since the question is irrelevant to your life, why ask it? I mean that as something for you to think about, rather than answer, necessarily. It's not an uncommon question for people with very limited budgets - and often its a source of rationale behind saying "no", in a weird, roundabout way. "You can't always get what you want" - so parents have to say no even when Yes is possible. It's a convoluted bit of reasoning tied up in ideas of "spoiling" children. But children aren't "spoiled" by lots of yesses in their life, they're "spoiled" by having such a lack of love and care they turn to possessions to bolster their self esteem.
> ---Meredith
>
Sandra Dodd
-=- The idea of using "NO tickets" has helped me understand, especially since when I say no, I typically say, no no no no no..... or something to that effect. So one instance of trying to stop one of my children can blow through like five tickets at once. This approach has also caused me to slow way down in my responses, so I can think through the question before I shout NO or say a quick Yessss.-=-
The "no tickets" is a thing I've said sometimes when speaking. Sometimes I say 200 and sometimes 300, but it's the idea that when a baby is born, the parents get a coupon book of "NO" tickets. After they're gone, they're gone. Some parents say "no" so much to a baby and toddler that she's through listening to them by the time she's three. You need to save some for the big stuff, when they're teens, and the big win is if the child grows up and the parents never used 300 Serious "NO" tickets.
Sandra
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The "no tickets" is a thing I've said sometimes when speaking. Sometimes I say 200 and sometimes 300, but it's the idea that when a baby is born, the parents get a coupon book of "NO" tickets. After they're gone, they're gone. Some parents say "no" so much to a baby and toddler that she's through listening to them by the time she's three. You need to save some for the big stuff, when they're teens, and the big win is if the child grows up and the parents never used 300 Serious "NO" tickets.
Sandra
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Sandra Dodd
Melissa wrote:
-=-I just had to disagree with this:
-=-".... they're "spoiled" by having such a lack of love and care they turn to possessions to bolster their self esteem."
But the post you're disagreeing with was conditional, and predicated on the idea of parents not providing an atmosphere of abundance of SOMEthing.
-=-Yes is possible. It's a convoluted bit of reasoning tied up in ideas of "spoiling" children. But children aren't "spoiled" by lots of yesses in their life, they're "spoiled" by having such a lack of love and care they turn to possessions to bolster their self esteem. -=-
It's not talking about collecting the whole set. It's talking about a child who knows his parents aren't going to actually listen to him or hang out with him, so he'll take the brand new car instead. And if they don't replace the car when he wrecks it he might be very pissed off, if they're still not paying attention to him, and if the best he can get from them is stuff.
Unless your child is collecting to compensate for a lack of love and care, don't jump up to catch the bullet.
Sandra
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-=-I just had to disagree with this:
-=-".... they're "spoiled" by having such a lack of love and care they turn to possessions to bolster their self esteem."
But the post you're disagreeing with was conditional, and predicated on the idea of parents not providing an atmosphere of abundance of SOMEthing.
-=-Yes is possible. It's a convoluted bit of reasoning tied up in ideas of "spoiling" children. But children aren't "spoiled" by lots of yesses in their life, they're "spoiled" by having such a lack of love and care they turn to possessions to bolster their self esteem. -=-
It's not talking about collecting the whole set. It's talking about a child who knows his parents aren't going to actually listen to him or hang out with him, so he'll take the brand new car instead. And if they don't replace the car when he wrecks it he might be very pissed off, if they're still not paying attention to him, and if the best he can get from them is stuff.
Unless your child is collecting to compensate for a lack of love and care, don't jump up to catch the bullet.
Sandra
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cookiesforthree
My son, now 9, when he was 8 wanted a tail. So, I told him that we could sew or pin a tail to his outfit of the day and when he was older, much older, if he still wanted a tail, he could probably have one surgically installed.
It was fun to think up ways to still say yes to something that seemed like a request so out of reach.
It was fun to think up ways to still say yes to something that seemed like a request so out of reach.
Jenny Cyphers
***There are real limitations in life, and sometimes finances are a source of real limitation. The trouble is, a lot of parents use that as an excuse - "you can't always get what you want" becomes and end-game. Life is hard, sucks it up, kid.***
It's more than that! A significant difference that I've noticed is that most unschoolers, truly value what their kids value and in so doing, they aren't as likely to dismiss it. We know plenty of parents who would tell their kids no about all kinds of things on the basis of lack of money, but then will go on expensive weekend outings for themselves.
Kids notice that sort of thing! In my experience, it's the act of giving that makes all the difference, no matter how much you have, monetarily, to give. One kid that lives with us, went a whole year without school lunches because his parents didn't provide any on the basis of lack of money, yet they managed all kinds of vacations designed for their own pleasure, they own 3 nice cars and live in a big house in a nice neighborhood. That attitude, along with other factors, drove that kid to not want to live with them anymore.
My kids know without a doubt, that if we have money to use on something they want, we will do so.
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It's more than that! A significant difference that I've noticed is that most unschoolers, truly value what their kids value and in so doing, they aren't as likely to dismiss it. We know plenty of parents who would tell their kids no about all kinds of things on the basis of lack of money, but then will go on expensive weekend outings for themselves.
Kids notice that sort of thing! In my experience, it's the act of giving that makes all the difference, no matter how much you have, monetarily, to give. One kid that lives with us, went a whole year without school lunches because his parents didn't provide any on the basis of lack of money, yet they managed all kinds of vacations designed for their own pleasure, they own 3 nice cars and live in a big house in a nice neighborhood. That attitude, along with other factors, drove that kid to not want to live with them anymore.
My kids know without a doubt, that if we have money to use on something they want, we will do so.
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suprisha
Sandra, Meredith, Brie, Joanna, Alex, Jenny, Lydia and all the others, thank you for responding. Yes, my query was partly about 'spoiling' children, though it wasn't clear (even to myself). I was also trying to understand the unschooling philosophy better and all your responses helped, thanks.
Santhy
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Santhy
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