Sandra Dodd

I got three e-mails announcing or promoting a site called "School
Sucks." they were nearly the same, but not identical, and came to me
personally, and as moderator of one yahoo list and owner of another.
So I wrote and said it was too negative for my tastes (and I had
looked at the webpage too; negative and dark).

The person who had sent those turned out not to be the site owner or
podcast-maker, or whatever. We had a few e-mails back and forth, and
then came a wonderfully inept/un-apt analogy. This is the e-mail I
sent back this morning:


===========================================

-=-You can't heal a wound by ignoring it, right?-=-

It quite depends on the severity of the wound.

You can't heal a scrape by rubbing dirt in it. You can't heal a cut
by pulling it open every day and looking in there. If you have bug
bites, you could potentially pick and pick and pick at them until you
have a roaring infection.

A knife to the abdomen is going to need surgery, and a broken bone
needs to be set.

I know school can cause damage. Living in the past causes damage, too.
Most wounds can heal themselves if the person is at peace and healthy.
Natural learning can happen if the person is at peace and healthy and
the environment is good for it.


I'm not saying the page shouldn't exist. I was asking a question
based on the blanket advertising of it, some saying homeschool and
some saying unschool, and was explaining why I don't want to advertise
the project on my discussion lists, or link it from my site.

Sandra

eintob, d.a.

Out of curiosity I went and checked it out. So far I've only listened to the first podcast. He explains why they called it "School Sucks" in that episode. He says besides the fact that it is a phrase taken directly from nearly every kid that has ever gone to public school, he chose to use it specifically because it describes what schooling does to a child. It "sucks those natural gifts (curiosity, innovation, hopefulness) out of too many people and replaces them with predictability, obedience, etc". That doesn't seem dark or negative to me. I liked the website and the podcast so far. Thanks at least for mentioning it. :)
~Michelle

--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> I got three e-mails announcing or promoting a site called "School
> Sucks." they were nearly the same, but not identical, and came to me
> personally, and as moderator of one yahoo list and owner of another.
> So I wrote and said it was too negative for my tastes (and I had
> looked at the webpage too; negative and dark).

1000 Sunny

eintob, d.a. schrieb:
>
>
> Out of curiosity I went and checked it out. So far I've only listened
> to the first podcast. He explains why they called it "School Sucks" in
> that episode. He says besides the fact that it is a phrase taken
> directly from nearly every kid that has ever gone to public school, he
> chose to use it specifically because it describes what schooling does
> to a child. It "sucks those natural gifts (curiosity, innovation,
> hopefulness) out of too many people and replaces them with
> predictability, obedience, etc". That doesn't seem dark or negative to
> me. I liked the website and the podcast so far. Thanks at least for
> mentioning it. :)
> ~Michelle
>
Dito. Thanks for mentioning it.
School sucks the natural gifts out; Deschooling brings you back on the
track and Unschooling lets you thrive again.
:)


I would like to know what to do about old school wounds. How can you
forget them? Sandra, you seem pretty at peace with school - how did you
do that?

Robin Bentley

I think maybe it's because it focuses on something that people on this
list already know and have chosen to actively do something about, in
their own families.

We're not here to school bash, we're here to learn about being
partners in our children's learning.

Wallowing in the fact that school "sucks" won't help people unschool
better.

Robin B.

On Jun 11, 2010, at 10:37 AM, eintob, d.a. wrote:

> Out of curiosity I went and checked it out. So far I've only
> listened to the first podcast. He explains why they called it
> "School Sucks" in that episode. He says besides the fact that it is
> a phrase taken directly from nearly every kid that has ever gone to
> public school, he chose to use it specifically because it describes
> what schooling does to a child. It "sucks those natural gifts
> (curiosity, innovation, hopefulness) out of too many people and
> replaces them with predictability, obedience, etc". That doesn't
> seem dark or negative to me. I liked the website and the podcast so
> far. Thanks at least for mentioning it. :)
> ~Michelle
>

Sandra Dodd

-=-I would like to know what to do about old school wounds. How can you
forget them? Sandra, you seem pretty at peace with school - how did you
do that?-=-

Gradually and consciously.
I thought about how I learned the things I know. Sometimes it was in
school, sometimes it was despite school, and I thought lovely thoughts
about my learning however and wherever it happened. I learned as much
from the backs of cereal boxes as from some of my textbooks, because I
really read the whole thing, the whole box, and was thinking while I
was reading.

Each time I do something sweet for one of my children, it benefits
them, and me now, and me-their-age.

How NOT to recover from school wounds: Dwell there. VIsiting a
"school sucks" site a time or two might not be bad, but visiting it
every day, living there, seems to me a way to let school continue to
ruin your life long, long after you are in the real, regular world.

If a single, childless person wants to spend a LOT of energy being
negative about school, cataloging school's ills, revealing and
reviewing school damage, then that's a hobby.

If the parent of unschooled children wants to do that, I think the
energy and emotion could be better and more positively spent being
merry and light with children who are not in school.

No one can have everything. You can't store up and identify with
cynicism, pessimism and self-righteous ire and still pour out joy and
happiness to your family.

Sandra



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Pam Sorooshian

On 6/12/2010 9:27 AM, Sandra Dodd wrote:
> If a single, childless person wants to spend a LOT of energy being
> negative about school, cataloging school's ills, revealing and
> reviewing school damage, then that's a hobby.

John Gatto's first book, his collection of talks called, "Dumbing Us
Down," could have been subtitled, "Why School Sucks."

I read it when I was just starting to think about the possibility of
pulling Roya and Roxana out of school they were 9 and 6 years old. I
had been told by lots of people, starting when Roya was in kindergarten,
that my expectations of school were way too high. I had managed to get
them into an experimental school that had no textbooks, had multiage
classrooms, no grades or tests, and tons of experiential learning
opportunities. The students didn't have to all do the same stuff at the
same time - they had "workshops" (stations) set up with lots of
different things to do in each one. So, for math, for example, they
could play games, design a board game, do worksheets, play with
"wrap-ups" or pattern blocks, or put on a "math play," build a bird
house, or all kinds of creative things. There were some minimum
requirements - they had to do something at the reading workshop or
writing workshop each morning and something in the math workshop each
afternoon, I think. But how much time they spent on it was up to them
AND there were lots of other options, too. There were generally about 10
different workshops available at any time - like art, music, drama,
gardening, web design, ... Reading workshop included listening to books
on tape - there were big soft pillows on the floor to curl up on. It
included some games related to books. It included the kids getting
together and putting on a skit based on a book. It included the game
they called "hot seat" - one kid would sit on a stool in front of some
other kids and would take on a character in a book - the other kids
would ask questions and the kid on the hot seat would answer as the
character. The other kids would try to guess who she/he was. It really
was, looking back, a rather amazing school with the cream-of-the-crop
teachers. Generally, the kids seemed to have a good time with the
activities. I spent a lot of time in the classrooms and, especially for
the younger kids, it really was fun. There were no grades - the teacher
walked around helping kids with their activities and writing little
notes to herself on post-its. The notes were about what she observed the
kids doing and learning. A note might say, "RS leadership org games" --
meaning Roya Sorooshian was showing her leadership skills by organizing
other kids in playing games. Throughout the day, she'd put all the
post-it notes for each kid on papers and put them into the file folder
she kept for each kid. When it was time for parent-conferences, she'd
use those post-it notes to do a write-up about each student - talking
about what they'd learned, what kind of learning style they seem to
exhibit, etc.

And yet, in spite of having gotten my kids into what seemed like an
almost too-good-to-be-true school, I was never satisfied. There was
always something going on that bugged me. They got a student teacher in
Roxana's class and changed the usual set up so that he could do practice
lessons with the whole class. They were awful and frustrating. They had
a time after lunch every day when the teacher read out loud to the class
- they were reading the Goosebumps books every day, week after week, and
Roxana was not enjoying them at ALL. The library/media center teacher
wouldn't let the kids in the lower grades get books from the shelves
intended for the older grades. They had computer time once a week in the
media center and it was run by the media center teacher who was
extremely controlling and made them do everything step-by-step as a
whole class. They tested my kids for the gifted program, without asking
me, and

So - although a lot of what Gatto talked about in Dumbing Us Down didn't
apply to the school experience my kids were having at that time, some
did. And, I had a very very strong reaction to it, in relation to how
"I" had felt in school and what school had done to me. Once I'd read
Dumbing Us Down, I just coudn't not see the problems with school. I felt
compelled to get my kids out.

So - I think there is good reason to write (and read) about how school
sucks. It can help someone decide to get their kids out of school, and
it can inform their homeschooling choices once they have pulled their
kids out.

But then - move on. I remember that I compared homeschooling to school a
lot in the first year of homeschooling, but I haven't done that in
years. How we lived was completely unrelated to school and no longer in
reaction to school, once I'd gotten a good grasp of unschooling. I've
seen John Gatto speak several times since then and I find what he talks
about almost completely irrelevant to our lives. I have to remind myself
that his critical analysis of schooling is probably still meaningful to
others. He's clever in how he talks about it and creates some good
images of what school is like (fleas in a can with a lid that doesn't
let them jump as high as they can) and I can see how it might really
help someone feel more confident in their choice to get their kids out
and to not recreate school at home.

But, once you've decided to unschool, you'll get more out of thinking
about learning, rather than schooling, and about how your kids can learn
in the whole real world, rather than how their learning is stunted in a
classroom.

-pam





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jenny Cyphers

***So - I think there is good reason to write (and read) about how school
sucks. It can help someone decide to get their kids out of school, and
it can inform their homeschooling choices once they have pulled their
kids out.

But then - move on. I remember that I compared homeschooling to school a
lot in the first year of homeschooling, but I haven't done that in
years.***

I didn't send Chamille to school because I realized that it sucked. It was a series of revelations for me that I couldn't ignore, so I found homeschooling and quickly found unschooling.

I compared homeschooling to school a lot for a long time. It seemed so big and relevant. Then, when Chamille was about 9 or 10, I stopped reading the local homeschool boards and focused more time on reading only about unschooling. That's when my focus changed greatly, from what we weren't doing, to what we were doing.

I still can't read local homeschool boards, they are full of fear, negativity, judgement, and cynicism. I occasionally check one list to keep abreast of local laws to know when I need to send a letter to a senator.

It's good to have solid reasons for why one is choosing an alternative to regular schooling, it's even better to not live there and know good solid reasons why you do what you do that is FOR something rather than AGAINST something. This is something that I see in my oldest daughter these days more and more, her positive optimism towards something more than her negative opposition against something. She does both for sure, but she leans heavily towards the optimism forward part of life and I can directly link that to the general attitude in our house because we stopped going against things and went toward things as a family.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

k

School doesn't always suck. For me, that's the crux of it. I didn't like
school through 12th grade. I liked it a little more (not much) once I went
to community college. Then years later, I chose a college I wanted to go to
and it was wonderful, and then later I transferred to a different school, a
university, which I absolutely loved.

If a child is being unschooled or even being schooled with a great deal of
choice involved, then anytime a child has school WITH choice, it doesn't
necessarily suck. And anybody can do at least a certain amount of that.

One of my friends is very pro-school (she worries about my unschooling), and
when my friend's two youngest children "dropped out" of high school, she let
them do a lot of things that didn't interfere with what they wanted. She
also didn't even bother to think of herself as a homeschooling mom because
she is so pro-school, it didn't compute. So they continued being themselves
and learned what they wanted to, went to work at young ages, lived with
their parents and got a GED when and if they wanted (not sure if the
youngest has a GED yet and he's 19 or so). At this point, at least three of
her kids have "some college."

The point being, you don't even have to be an unschooler and can be very
pro-school, and yet view school as a personal decision. Yes, school is
compulsory and yet even pro-school parents find ways to deal with that fact
that don't overwhelm their kid's ability to do at least some of what they
want.

~Katherine



On Fri, Jun 11, 2010 at 6:54 PM, 1000 Sunny <[email protected]> wrote:

> eintob, d.a. schrieb:
> >
> >
> > Out of curiosity I went and checked it out. So far I've only listened
> > to the first podcast. He explains why they called it "School Sucks" in
> > that episode. He says besides the fact that it is a phrase taken
> > directly from nearly every kid that has ever gone to public school, he
> > chose to use it specifically because it describes what schooling does
> > to a child. It "sucks those natural gifts (curiosity, innovation,
> > hopefulness) out of too many people and replaces them with
> > predictability, obedience, etc". That doesn't seem dark or negative to
> > me. I liked the website and the podcast so far. Thanks at least for
> > mentioning it. :)
> > ~Michelle
> >
> Dito. Thanks for mentioning it.
> School sucks the natural gifts out; Deschooling brings you back on the
> track and Unschooling lets you thrive again.
> :)
>
>
> I would like to know what to do about old school wounds. How can you
> forget them? Sandra, you seem pretty at peace with school - how did you
> do that?
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jenny Cyphers

***I would like to know what to do about old school wounds. How can you
forget them? Sandra, you seem pretty at peace with school - how did you
do that?***

I know this question was directed at Sandra, but I'll tell you how I do it!

Every time I prevent something damaging happening to one of my children, it's like healing a little bit of me. Every time I help my children achieve something wonderful, it's a little bit like healing that little girl that would've like that to happen for me! I love gifting my kids with that! It helps make me a better person to give my kids something better!





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Pam Sorooshian

On 6/12/2010 11:47 AM, Pam Sorooshian wrote:
> They tested my kids for the gifted program, without asking
> me, and

I meant to say that there was a whole bunch of really negative stuff
that happened related to the gifted program.

-pam

Sandra Dodd

i love this, from Jenny:


-=-It's good to have solid reasons for why one is choosing an
alternative to regular schooling, it's even better to not live there
and know good solid reasons why you do what you do that is FOR
something rather than AGAINST something. This is something that I see
in my oldest daughter these days more and more, her positive optimism
towards something more than her negative opposition against something.
She does both for sure, but she leans heavily towards the optimism
forward part of life and I can directly link that to the general
attitude in our house because we stopped going against things and went
toward things as a family.-=-

I have some friends and what I know most about them is what they
hate: HATE country music, WalMart, pit bulls, the Office of Homeland
Security, HATE people texting, hate seeing men's underwear stick out
of men's jeans.... HATE, Hate, hate.

I don't want to be the black hole where other things don't exist.
That's like being one of the bubbles in the ash layers after Vesuvius
erupted. I don't want to exist as the inventory of things I am not.

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=
The point being, you don't even have to be an unschooler and can be very
pro-school, and yet view school as a personal decision. Yes, school is
compulsory and yet even pro-school parents find ways to deal with that
fact
that don't overwhelm their kid's ability to do at least some of what
they
want.-=-

YES. A decision.

School doesn't always suck.
Not having any choice can suck. Being denied the freedom to choose to
go to school or to opt out can suck. But not every family is
equipped to provide an alternative.

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

k

-=-School doesn't always suck.-=-

>>>Not having any choice can suck. Being denied the freedom to choose to
go to school or to opt out can suck. But not every family is
equipped to provide an alternative.<<<

I agree. The least equipped are those with active opposition to choice.

~Katherine


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Schuyler

You know I sort of thought that I didn't have a lot of school damage. I thought I'd dealt with most of the things that had made me feel small or less than in school. I knew there were things like high waders, trousers that don't go down far enough, that always disturb me. Both Simon and Linnaea are absolutely nonplussed by the length of their trousers, but my rapid growth rate in junior high was such that I was an easy target for comments at a time when I wanted to just fade in to the background. So there is a mixture of horror and envy as I see them comfortably wearing trousers that don't even brush the tops of their shoes. But I thought that I'd largely moved on from carrying my school baggage.

I got a ukulele a week or so ago. Now I had a range of musical lessons as a child. Piano, privately, and violin and oboe, via school, and I think that covers it. My parents firmly believed that the ability to play an instrument was important to being a well rounded individual. I failed at every turn. I hated practicing the piano, however long I had to practice every day. My brother would help me lie to my parents about how much I played, and we even taped a practice session so that my mom could hear me play if she was upstairs working when I was supposed to be practicing. I didn't want to play violin, I wanted to play fiddle, so I was seriously disappointed with the whole thing and the oboe was just me being different from all the girls who were playing flute instead, like the German classes instead of French. As an adult I've tried the guitar more than once, I have a keyboard upstairs that I got a few songbooks for and, well, I just didn't stick to any
of it. And I knew that it was because I wasn't musical. I'm just not well-rounded.

So I got this ukulele, another in a series of musical whims, and I opened the box and I couldn't for the life of me figure out why I'd gotten it. I had no vision of me playing a ukulele, I had no songs, particularly that I wanted to learn. I'd just a song on youtube that a friend posted on facebook and I got hooked on the idea of a ukulele. So I got this ukulele and I have no expectations from it, but I am enjoying it like I've never enjoyed an instrument before. It is quick to learn, and that helps, I get distracted more easily on something with a steep learning curve. And I set a couple of minor goals, like playing Happy Birthday to You for my mom's 70th birthday via flashdrive. And then I explored, via the internet, what I could learn. I can play, not totally smoothly, but a bit, Ukulele Lady and I'm working on Mairzy Doats.

I have no expectations of what this little stringed thing is going to do for me. I don't think I'll me more or less rounded if I play the ukulele. I did, however, mention it to my dad yesterday, and he completely brushed it off as being a non-instrument. The disdain wasn't that obvious, but I am sensitive enough to have felt at least a passing sneer. It's totally possible that I will learn a few songs and then it will go to gather dust like the other instruments in our house do. But this little ukulele has done for me what none of the stuff that I did as a child ever did, nor what my ranting and raving about my school experiences did. It has let me see how much I enjoy making music. And I enjoy the intellectual pursuit of the skill of making music. I like looking for different strumming patterns, I like practicing barre chords and feeling the ache in my hand as the muscles stretch to reach. I like listening to others explain how to do something or other
and being able to move away if they get too boring. I like going at my own pace. I like looking to no one else to define my relationship with music via the ukulele.

So that's part of how I heal from school damage. I enjoy my life doing things that I couldn't do through school.

Schuyler




________________________________
From: 1000 Sunny <[email protected]>



I would like to know what to do about old school wounds. How can you
forget them? Sandra, you seem pretty at peace with school - how did you
do that?

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

keetry

== School doesn't always suck. ==

I hate the thought of school. However, when I really think about it, I didn't hate everything about school. I have very fond, if not clear, memories of Montessori School. I have good memories of early elementary school, up until around 4th or 5th grade (prepubescence?). I absolutely loved college.

I was miserable in between. That had more to do with the social aspects of school than the educational. I liked doing schoolwork as long as it didn't involve writing a paper. The social structure affected my learning and my confidence. I can look back now and see how all the structured education stifled my individual creativity and passion, though. I've lost a lot of that and am having a hard time getting it back.

There are people who come out of school and have been able to retain that passion and creativity.

Alysia

keetry

== it's even better to not live there and know good solid reasons why you do what you do that is FOR something rather than AGAINST something. ==

I don't understand this. Better to not live where? Better to not know solid reasons why you do what you do? Clarify, please.

== I have some friends and what I know most about them is what they hate: HATE country music, WalMart, pit bulls, the Office of Homeland
Security, HATE people texting, hate seeing men's underwear stick out of men's jeans.... HATE, Hate, hate. ==

I used to be like this. I think I learned it from my dad, who always seemed to be angry or annoyed with someone or something. He taught me to never trust anyone. Because of that, I spent a majority of my life feeling pretty miserable. Now I make a conscious effort to find things I like with everything that I can. I try to find the positive in any situation. I think and talk about things that I like rather than things that I dislike because I don't want my children learning how to make themselves feel as miserable as I did.

That's not to say that I ignore it when something makes me feel bad. I don't dwell on it and make sure everyone else knows how angry or miserable or annoyed I am.

Alysia

Sandra Dodd

-=-== it's even better to not live there and know good solid reasons
why you do what you do that is FOR something rather than AGAINST
something. ==

-=-I don't understand this. Better to not live where? Better to not
know solid reasons why you do what you do? Clarify, please. -=-

Not to live in reactive negativity.
Be making choices to DO, not choices to avoid.
Choose to be, and to act, not just to not-identify and re-act.

Sandra




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Bob Collier

--- In [email protected], Schuyler <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> I don't think I'll me more or less rounded if I play the ukulele. I did, however, mention it to my dad yesterday, and he completely brushed it off as being a non-instrument.


Heresy!

This is really nice - Paul's Dance, a tune by Simon Jeffes of the Penguin Cafe Orchestra:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ov0XZNXoVqQ

Cool Ukulele Tune From Steven Sproat

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbS2CBJAkgM

Have you seen this website?

Ukelele Beatles Fun!
http://beatlesite.info/

Bob


k

You sound like me, Alysia. I loved most of school until 3rd grade and then
fewer and fewer parts of it until I was just biding my time there. Until
college, where I warmed up to being there by my own choice bit by bit.

~Katherine




On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 11:19 AM, keetry <[email protected]> wrote:

> == School doesn't always suck. ==
>
> I hate the thought of school. However, when I really think about it, I
> didn't hate everything about school. I have very fond, if not clear,
> memories of Montessori School. I have good memories of early elementary
> school, up until around 4th or 5th grade (prepubescence?). I absolutely
> loved college.
>
> I was miserable in between. That had more to do with the social aspects of
> school than the educational. I liked doing schoolwork as long as it didn't
> involve writing a paper. The social structure affected my learning and my
> confidence. I can look back now and see how all the structured education
> stifled my individual creativity and passion, though. I've lost a lot of
> that and am having a hard time getting it back.
>
> There are people who come out of school and have been able to retain that
> passion and creativity.
>
> Alysia
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

seyyala

--- In [email protected], "Bob Collier" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
> --- In [email protected], Schuyler <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > I don't think I'll me more or less rounded if I play the ukulele. I did, however, mention it to my dad yesterday, and he completely brushed it off as being a non-instrument.
>
>
> Heresy!

I agree. I'm learning Hawai'ian 'ukulele at my hula halau. *Every* song we dance is accompanied by at least one 'ukulele. Some of the most important performers in Hawai'ian music have accompanied themselves on that wee instrument, including Aunty Genoa Keawe and Israel Kamakawiwo'ole.

Here are a couple of fun sites to explore:

http://www.coolhanduke.com/index.html
http://ukulelehunt.com/ukulele-songs/

I'm going to harp camp this summer. I've been charged by my kumu hula to learn "Aloha 'Oe" on the Celtic lap harp <g>.

Robin B.

k

>>>Israel Kamakawiwo'ole<<<

One of my very most favorite artist.. what a voice. I love the medley
he did with "Somewhere Over the Rainbow." Wish he was still around to
sing more.

~Katherine





On 6/14/10, seyyala <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
> --- In [email protected], "Bob Collier" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> --- In [email protected], Schuyler <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >
>> > I don't think I'll me more or less rounded if I play the ukulele. I did,
>> > however, mention it to my dad yesterday, and he completely brushed it
>> > off as being a non-instrument.
>>
>>
>> Heresy!
>
> I agree. I'm learning Hawai'ian 'ukulele at my hula halau. *Every* song we
> dance is accompanied by at least one 'ukulele. Some of the most important
> performers in Hawai'ian music have accompanied themselves on that wee
> instrument, including Aunty Genoa Keawe and Israel Kamakawiwo'ole.
>
> Here are a couple of fun sites to explore:
>
> http://www.coolhanduke.com/index.html
> http://ukulelehunt.com/ukulele-songs/
>
> I'm going to harp camp this summer. I've been charged by my kumu hula to
> learn "Aloha 'Oe" on the Celtic lap harp <g>.
>
> Robin B.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

Jenny Cyphers

== it's even better to not live there and know good solid reasons why you do what you do that is FOR something rather than AGAINST something. ==
***I don't understand this. Better to not live where? Better to not know solid reasons why you do what you do? Clarify, please. ***

I have been inundated with article after article of the "ills of public school". I don't know why, but they've been circulating around in various forums that I frequent. They are interesting to read. I usually read them. If they are too negative and redundant I'll stop before I get halfway through.

I KNOW what's wrong with public school! It's good to know if you are going to make an informed decision to not send your kids there!

What's even better is to KNOW what is right with unschooling! That is where I need to live so that I can focus more clearly on the next happy thought and the next happy interaction with my kids. If I live in the land of "school is bad", I don't have a stepping point to move away from it.

That's what I meant when I said that. I like TED talks http://www.ted.com/
What I like is how the ideas are categorized on the left hand side of that page. That's what it's about, ideas, but what I find wonderful is that they are listed as: persuasive, courageous, ingenious, fascinating, inspiring, beautiful, funny, innovative. That's how I like my unschooling info buffet to look like! Those are all really positive ways to view ideas. You don't see negative descriptors listed there! That doesn't mean that I don't occasionally enjoy a nice school rant here and there, but mostly I like to be inspired by ideas rather than be heart broken.





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Schuyler

That's the song that got me out purchasing my little uke. Thank you Caren.




________________________________
From: NCMama <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, 14 June, 2010 10:11:55
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Re: objection to the "school sucks" phrase



A reason to pick one up: "There's nothin' hard or heavy 'bout a uke!". A favorite from Loudon Wainwright III

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXHOx_P7oM0&feature=youtube_gdata

Caren

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k

Oh my .... this might be somebody's birthday present. ;) Thanks for the
inspiration. For Brian.. shhhh (big secret-- you heard it here first).

~Katherine




On Mon, Jun 14, 2010 at 5:11 AM, NCMama <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>
> A reason to pick one up: "There's nothin' hard or heavy 'bout a uke!". A
> favorite from Loudon Wainwright III
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXHOx_P7oM0&feature=youtube_gdata
>
> Caren
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>


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Sandra Dodd

-=-That doesn't mean that I don't occasionally enjoy a nice school
rant here and there, but mostly I like to be inspired by ideas rather
than be heart broken.-=-

Beautiful, Jenny.

Yes, that.

Will you live in the dark, stinky alley in the shadow of school where
there is moaning and wailing and gnashing of teeth? That is not the
substance of school. There's a brighter side, just over the building,
where more positive people are finding ways to cope with it, or where
kids are relieved to have a better place than their particular home to
hang out with people who have ideas, and who smile.

I think it's better to turn away from the school, step out of the
shadow of the school, and live a whole new way. An insipiring,
enjoyable way (lifting words form what JennyC wrote above).

It's the difference in cup half full of seething, horrible memories
(or overflowing with them, if you add other people's memories before
you've processed your own), and cup half full of gentle new ideas,
which can easily overflow if you let it.

That whole cup half full, cup half empty metaphor is about pessimism
and optimism, about lack and abundance. But there's more than one way
to look at it, and that's the topic of the chat later today.
http://sandradodd.com/chat

Sandra

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BRIAN POLIKOWSKY

I wanted to homeschool/unschool not because I thought school was horrible. I actrually loved going to school.
But the moment I had MD and he was in my arms there was no way I was going to send my little child off for strangers
to raise him or care for him.
Its was after reading about school damage that I started  thinking back about how my siblings
had suffered in school, specially my older brother.
I can see it know how school is damaging in many cases but it was never a reaction against school that
drove me to unschool.
 
Alex Polikowsky

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Sandra Dodd

-=-I can see it know how school is damaging in many cases but it was
never a reaction against school that
drove me to unschool.-=-

Me too.

As time went on and I thought of what my kids were missing (good or
bad), it started to seep in, for me, the kind of damage that's done
even to kids who are successful in school, and because my own nature
isn't competitive and I regret every time I was immature and rude as a
kid, I think of kids who would have LOVED to have come in first on
something, when I came in first and thought nothing of it, it was so
routine. Or when I got an A, but it meant someone else didn't,
because only so many were allowed.

If I could go back and do school again, I think I would aim for low
B's, not maximum A's.

Sandra

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BRIAN POLIKOWSKY

And I have to say that for some school can be a blessing and a safe place.
My neighbours do not treat their 4 year old well at all . Its really sickining but not unlawful so nothing I can really do other
than make comments and try to say things about how talking to him differently is good.
hoiw he is a good kid that only wants to do things to help or how important it is to really listen to him.
Its a very sad situation.
In this case I am really glad the child goes to day care/pre-school.
He may have someone there that listens to him, encourages him and treats hiim better than his parents do.
Some households are really bad and kids are better off in school.
My mom tells me about a teacher she had as a child that really helped her cause she was always put down at home.
It really was a safe haven for my mom to go to school and not be home where her parent were always fighting.
My mom became a teacher.
Like it was discussed here not everyone can or should unschool.
 
Alex Polikowsky

.



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