Crystal Byrd

After reading everyone's advice about my daughter not being able to get out
of the school mind-set, I realized something. how would she ever get out of
it if I couldn't? While I thought I was trying to make learning fun and
interesting, I still had one thing in common with public school. I was
trying to *make* her learn. even if I was asking her what she wanted to
learn. And even though my younger two have no problems telling me what they
like and don't like and what they want to learn about and don't (my 7 year
old announced last night he doesn't really like the book we're all reading
together- Stuart Little - and would rather I read Magic Treehouse to him by
ourselves J) I'm still driving myself crazy doing lesson plans and flipping
through workbooks (and buying workbooks! UGH!) trying to find the perfect
page that looks fun for them or deciding what we "need" to be learning, only
to hear moans and groans from them. So I really thought about it. seriously,
did I need lesson plans to teach them to walk, talk, use the "potty", ride
their bikes, sing their abc's, recognize shapes, count, write their names.
NO! They learned these things through play and everyday living, and all on
their own time scale, might I mention. For instance, my middle daughter had
no interest in potty training. I tried to force it and have her trained by 2
"like the books say", until I realized that it really didn't matter, put her
back in diapers, and she told me when she was ready to "go potty". My son
potty-trained early, but preferred to use the back yard (LOL). He rode his
bike much younger than the girls, but my oldest walked the youngest and my
middle daughter has always had the largest vocabulary. Anyway.



So I sat them down this morning, while they were playing games on the
computer and thinking I had forgotten that today was a "school day" and told
them that I had been thinking. I didn't mention the unschooling community to
them, so they wouldn't think, "Oh goodness. Mom's been on the internet
again." I told them that I'd been thinking about how we learn and what we
learn and how we'd learned things in the past. I told them that I didn't
think it was necessary that we use workbooks and textbooks. I also made it
very clear that I wanted their opinion on my ideas and that I was open to
however they wanted to do things; if they enjoyed workbooks and textbooks
then they were free to continue with them, even if just for certain
subjects. I told them that I think we spend too much time at home instead of
at museums and shows and the park. I told them that there are so many neat
movies we could be watching together during the day, or fun games on the
computer, or doing more art projects which they all really enjoy. My younger
two were thrilled with the idea of putting away the workbooks and "playing"
all day. I made sure they understood that we would still be learning, but
that we didn't have to plan what we would learn, it would just happen. And
some things we would make happen by planning trips or renting certain
movies, whatever interested them that day. To my surprise, my 6th grader
perked up at the conversation. at first she was hesitant, and said that
there's no way she could learn what she needed to without reading a book,
and how did I expect her to learn as much science just by visiting museums
(she really said that, can you believe it?). so we talked about museums and
all the different kinds we have around us and all the other ways to learn
about something. She asked if she would still write stories, and I told her
of course! We could all sit around some days with our notebooks and write
stories to share with each other, and then illustrate them if we wanted to.
We could take all day, or 30 minutes. Then I explained to her that when we
go back through the stories and edit and revise, she would be learning about
grammar. she asked, "Mom, how am I going to learn all the names of stuff by
doing that. my books talk about reflexive pronouns and demonstrative" (and
she threw out other words to me that I don't remember). I told her that if I
was being honest, there are lots of things that I don't remember the exact
name or classification, but that I am an excellent writer which means I know
how to use them in my sentences. She said that made sense. she is also a
good writer, and wasn't exactly sure why she had to memorize ALL the
classifications of every word.



This part is funny. she has agreed to giving this whole "learning is fun"
thing a shot since there isn't much of the "school year left". (while we're
making progress, obviously we still have a little bit to go! LOL)



So we boxed up all the workbooks and textbooks today, except for the ones
they like that have fun little activities. filled the shelves in the office
instead with all of our games and crossword puzzles, mad libs, art stuff,
blocks, etc. We had some shopping to do at Target, so we picked up some fun
"educational" games while we were there. a couple of games for their
Nintendo DS's and one for the Wii, along with shovels and wild flower seeds
to plant in the garden, a "sea-monkey" acquarium (I still don't know what
that is!), a microscope. all stuff they wanted. We're going to the Farmer's
Market in town tomorrow, and to the planetarium on Saturday (my younger two
are enthralled with space and stars right now).



I still have to consciously work on my thinking, too. like the fact that
it's ok if we go to the planetarium on Saturday instead of during the week,
because "school" doesn't have to be "Monday-Friday". we can learn every day
(isn't it funny that we actually think we can't 'learn' on the weekends when
we're involved in public school!) But I feel like I've made (or am making)
the plunge, and finally on the right track.



Thank you guys for all your kind words, encouragement, advice, kick in the
pants, and whatever else you threw my way! I'll have lots more questions,
but I know that I will always get great answers with this group!



Crystal



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

Your post was happy and full of change, and I'm still going to
critique some of your current thinking, for the benefit of the
discussion.

-=-. I was
trying to *make* her learn. even if I was asking her what she wanted to
learn. And even though my younger two have no problems telling me what
they
like and don't like and what they want to learn about and don't-=-

I never asked my kids once what they wanted to learn. Never. I knew
they were going to learn from whatever they saw and did, so I put
things out for them to find and learn from (or not). And I would
switch those things around, and bring things back out a year or five
later, and just put them in view and easy reach and not announce them.
http://sandradodd.com/strewing

-=So I really thought about it. seriously,
did I need lesson plans to teach them to walk, talk, use the "potty",
ride
their bikes, sing their abc's, recognize shapes, count, write their
names.-=-

You thought to yourself "did I need lesson plans to teach them to
walk, talk..."
But you wrote it to all of us. Please think about whether you taught
them to walk. Please consider deeply whether you taught a child to
talk.

http://sandradodd.com/wordswords

-=-I told them that I think we spend too much time at home instead of
at museums and shows and the park. I told them that there are so many
neat
movies we could be watching together during the day, or fun games on the
computer, or doing more art projects which they all really enjoy.=-

My first thought was to wish you hadn't set them down and had a talk.
The "now everything changes" speech can be disturbing for kids whose
mom assured them earlier that they would never get to heaven (job/
money/reproduction) if they didn't go to school (or approximate school
at home). You could have said "Sure, why not?" hundreds of joyous
times, but now you've given one big bewildering "yes" and now you'll
need to say "no" sometimes.

-=-. To my surprise, my 6th grader
perked up ...-=-

To my surprise, you're still writing to this list and calling her a
6th grader. You could say "My oldest" or "My 12 year old" or something.

-=and how did I expect her to learn as much science just by visiting
museums
(she really said that, can you believe it?)-=-

Of course I believe it. Why don't you? You were trying to make her
learn yesterday. Now you've told her you've been wrong for years and
everything she's believed has been removed. That's like divorce, or
leaving a church abruptly. Slow down.

And did you really say she could learn just as much science "Just" by
visiting museums?

While you're checking your speech for "taught" and "6th grader," check
for "just," too, because it's an insidious little word.

If she goes to a museum and likes something, she could talk to the
docents about it, look at what they have in the gift shop, come home
and get on the internet, you could rent DVDs about it (just get one
and don't make a big deal about whether she watches it or not). She
could keep that interest for two days or twenty years, but if you try
to manage and control that, you're screwing up natural learning.
Encourage! Facilitate! Don't "require."

-=-We could all sit around some days with our notebooks and write
stories to share with each other, and then illustrate them if we
wanted to.-=-

What if every day each person writes when she wants to, and shares if
she wants to, and illustrates if she wants to, without a family
project some days?

-=- Then I explained to her that when we
go back through the stories and edit and revise, she would be learning
about
grammar. -=-

What if you only edit and revise by individual request? What if you
drop the phrase "edit and revise" and think of it as "helping"?
Sometimes people don't want or need help.

-=-"Mom, how am I going to learn all the names of stuff by
doing that. my books talk about reflexive pronouns and
demonstrative" (and
she threw out other words to me that I don't remember). I told her
that if I
was being honest, there are lots of things that I don't remember the
exact
name or classification, but that I am an excellent writer which means
I know
how to use them in my sentences. -=-

Internet. You can put any word into a search engine with "usage" or
"definition" and get all kinds of discussion of uses, confusions and
history.
Grammar books for fun. The Transitive Vampire and those.

I went to look up on my site a place I was talking about grammar. I
thought I would find it by searching for Transitive Vampire.

That book is listed on this page:
http://sandradodd.com/playing

not on these pages:
http://sandradodd.com/writing
http://sandradodd.com/language/
http://sandradodd.com/englishlanguage

DO NOT SEND YOUR OLDEST CHILD THOSE LINKS.

Read them yourself and figure out how to work the information into
your everyday life. Telling kids to unschool themselves is no good.
If their mom is still full of school thinking, it won't work. YOU-the-
mom must become and unschooler for this to work.

-=-This part is funny. she has agreed to giving this whole "learning
is fun"
thing a shot since there isn't much of the "school year left". (while
we're
making progress, obviously we still have a little bit to go! LOL)-=-

If you save the post you sent us and read it in a couple of years, if
you have succeeded in moving into unschooling, the whole post will be
funny.

What's not funny, though, is that you seem to be ignoring the
deschooling advice people have given you.

-=- a "sea-monkey" acquarium (I still don't know what that is!)-=-
Brine Shrimp. It wouldn't have taken longer to google sea-monkey than
to write that you didn't know. "Aquarium." The root is "aqua"--
water.

http://sandradodd.com/connections

Sandra











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


DJ250

While I agree with Sandra, I do want to add a hearty 'Congratulations!' on "getting it". You are clearly on the first stage of your unschooling journey! Take her advice, definitely, just enjoy where you are and your new journey with your babies!

~Melissa, in MD

----- Original Message -----
From: Sandra Dodd
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2009 10:28 AM
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] we did it... I think!...





Your post was happy and full of change, and I'm still going to
critique some of your current thinking, for the benefit of the
discussion.

-=-. I was
trying to *make* her learn. even if I was asking her what she wanted to
learn. And even though my younger two have no problems telling me what
they
like and don't like and what they want to learn about and don't-=-

I never asked my kids once what they wanted to learn. Never. I knew
they were going to learn from whatever they saw and did, so I put
things out for them to find and learn from (or not). And I would
switch those things around, and bring things back out a year or five
later, and just put them in view and easy reach and not announce them.
http://sandradodd.com/strewing

-=So I really thought about it. seriously,
did I need lesson plans to teach them to walk, talk, use the "potty",
ride
their bikes, sing their abc's, recognize shapes, count, write their
names.-=-

You thought to yourself "did I need lesson plans to teach them to
walk, talk..."
But you wrote it to all of us. Please think about whether you taught
them to walk. Please consider deeply whether you taught a child to
talk.

http://sandradodd.com/wordswords

-=-I told them that I think we spend too much time at home instead of
at museums and shows and the park. I told them that there are so many
neat
movies we could be watching together during the day, or fun games on the
computer, or doing more art projects which they all really enjoy.=-

My first thought was to wish you hadn't set them down and had a talk.
The "now everything changes" speech can be disturbing for kids whose
mom assured them earlier that they would never get to heaven (job/
money/reproduction) if they didn't go to school (or approximate school
at home). You could have said "Sure, why not?" hundreds of joyous
times, but now you've given one big bewildering "yes" and now you'll
need to say "no" sometimes.

-=-. To my surprise, my 6th grader
perked up ...-=-

To my surprise, you're still writing to this list and calling her a
6th grader. You could say "My oldest" or "My 12 year old" or something.

-=and how did I expect her to learn as much science just by visiting
museums
(she really said that, can you believe it?)-=-

Of course I believe it. Why don't you? You were trying to make her
learn yesterday. Now you've told her you've been wrong for years and
everything she's believed has been removed. That's like divorce, or
leaving a church abruptly. Slow down.

And did you really say she could learn just as much science "Just" by
visiting museums?

While you're checking your speech for "taught" and "6th grader," check
for "just," too, because it's an insidious little word.

If she goes to a museum and likes something, she could talk to the
docents about it, look at what they have in the gift shop, come home
and get on the internet, you could rent DVDs about it (just get one
and don't make a big deal about whether she watches it or not). She
could keep that interest for two days or twenty years, but if you try
to manage and control that, you're screwing up natural learning.
Encourage! Facilitate! Don't "require."

-=-We could all sit around some days with our notebooks and write
stories to share with each other, and then illustrate them if we
wanted to.-=-

What if every day each person writes when she wants to, and shares if
she wants to, and illustrates if she wants to, without a family
project some days?

-=- Then I explained to her that when we
go back through the stories and edit and revise, she would be learning
about
grammar. -=-

What if you only edit and revise by individual request? What if you
drop the phrase "edit and revise" and think of it as "helping"?
Sometimes people don't want or need help.

-=-"Mom, how am I going to learn all the names of stuff by
doing that. my books talk about reflexive pronouns and
demonstrative" (and
she threw out other words to me that I don't remember). I told her
that if I
was being honest, there are lots of things that I don't remember the
exact
name or classification, but that I am an excellent writer which means
I know
how to use them in my sentences. -=-

Internet. You can put any word into a search engine with "usage" or
"definition" and get all kinds of discussion of uses, confusions and
history.
Grammar books for fun. The Transitive Vampire and those.

I went to look up on my site a place I was talking about grammar. I
thought I would find it by searching for Transitive Vampire.

That book is listed on this page:
http://sandradodd.com/playing

not on these pages:
http://sandradodd.com/writing
http://sandradodd.com/language/
http://sandradodd.com/englishlanguage

DO NOT SEND YOUR OLDEST CHILD THOSE LINKS.

Read them yourself and figure out how to work the information into
your everyday life. Telling kids to unschool themselves is no good.
If their mom is still full of school thinking, it won't work. YOU-the-
mom must become and unschooler for this to work.

-=-This part is funny. she has agreed to giving this whole "learning
is fun"
thing a shot since there isn't much of the "school year left". (while
we're
making progress, obviously we still have a little bit to go! LOL)-=-

If you save the post you sent us and read it in a couple of years, if
you have succeeded in moving into unschooling, the whole post will be
funny.

What's not funny, though, is that you seem to be ignoring the
deschooling advice people have given you.

-=- a "sea-monkey" acquarium (I still don't know what that is!)-=-
Brine Shrimp. It wouldn't have taken longer to google sea-monkey than
to write that you didn't know. "Aquarium." The root is "aqua"--
water.

http://sandradodd.com/connections

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jenny C

>
> After reading everyone's advice about my daughter not being able to
get out
> of the school mind-set, I realized something. how would she ever get
out of
> it if I couldn't? While I thought I was trying to make learning fun
and
> interesting, I still had one thing in common with public school. I was
> trying to *make* her learn. even if I was asking her what she wanted
to
> learn.

As the parent, you've been in school much longer than any of your kids!
You will need the most deschooling! That's often how it is, the kids
"get it" so much easier and quicker than our old parental and schooled
selves.

When in doubt, look directly at your kids and see them for their
wonderful selves and all the cool things they love to do. It always
helps! I use this in all times of stress and uncertainty! I go and BE
with my kids and bask in their awesome kidness and sure enough, my
thoughts have changed direction, and my focus is back on living happily
with my kids!

> So I sat them down this morning, while they were playing games on the
> computer and thinking I had forgotten that today was a "school day"
and told
> them that I had been thinking.

And soon, you'll forget what grade they are in! I always have to stop
and think and count back, when asked what grade one of my kids would be
in. Well, they aren't in one are they? Grade levels are purely for
organizing large amounts of kids, and since I only have 2, such
organizations really aren't necessary or even relevant in our life!

>I told them that there are so many neat
> movies we could be watching together during the day, or fun games on
the
> computer, or doing more art projects which they all really enjoy.

Movies can provide such great connecting moments! Something light and
fun, no hidden motives, no alternate agenda, just being together
watching a movie. I really think they are a really good tool for
deschooling. Movies provide relaxed entertainment that gives food for
thought!