But you're *not* an unschooler!
saturnfire16
What do you say when people ask about unschooling and non-unschoolers
respond? Or when people who aren't unschoolers call themselves
unschoolers then talk about curriculum? Or when people say- we
unschool for reading and history, but not math and science- like it's
just another curriculum?
respond? Or when people who aren't unschoolers call themselves
unschoolers then talk about curriculum? Or when people say- we
unschool for reading and history, but not math and science- like it's
just another curriculum?
Sandra Dodd
-=-What do you say when people ask about unschooling and non-unschoolers
respond?-=-
I wait for them to respond and then say "We're unschoolers and that's
now what we do." And I try always to say "If you want to know more
about it... " and I used to say "go to unschooling.com," when that
was the active and hoppin' place to be, but now it's not. Now I try
to give them my own website because it's easy to remember (for me,
anyway <bwg>). Usually they don't really want to know, but knowing
there's a place to look can be comforting or make it seem "real."
-=-Or when people who aren't unschoolers call themselves unschoolers
then talk about curriculum? Or when people say- we unschool for
reading and history, but not math and science- like it's just another
curriculum? -=-
Then I say "That's usually called 'eclectic,' and unschooling works
best when the world isn't split out into different subjects."
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
respond?-=-
I wait for them to respond and then say "We're unschoolers and that's
now what we do." And I try always to say "If you want to know more
about it... " and I used to say "go to unschooling.com," when that
was the active and hoppin' place to be, but now it's not. Now I try
to give them my own website because it's easy to remember (for me,
anyway <bwg>). Usually they don't really want to know, but knowing
there's a place to look can be comforting or make it seem "real."
-=-Or when people who aren't unschoolers call themselves unschoolers
then talk about curriculum? Or when people say- we unschool for
reading and history, but not math and science- like it's just another
curriculum? -=-
Then I say "That's usually called 'eclectic,' and unschooling works
best when the world isn't split out into different subjects."
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Verna
I was talking to a friend the other day (she is kind of eclectic
homeschooler I would say). She laughed and announced that she
unschooled her daughter tying her shoes. She was just joking but it
sounds about the same as people who say they unschool all but math.
homeschooler I would say). She laughed and announced that she
unschooled her daughter tying her shoes. She was just joking but it
sounds about the same as people who say they unschool all but math.
Sandra Dodd
-=-She laughed and announced that she
unschooled her daughter tying her shoes. She was just joking but it
sounds about the same as people who say they unschool all but math.-=-
Only mean. If the daughter wanted to know how to tie her shoes, what
kind of person wouldn't help her?
Pam Sorooshian's youngest daughter was asked once how she learned to
tie her shoes if she didn't go to school. She asked the girl who was
asking that something like "They teach that in school?"
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
unschooled her daughter tying her shoes. She was just joking but it
sounds about the same as people who say they unschool all but math.-=-
Only mean. If the daughter wanted to know how to tie her shoes, what
kind of person wouldn't help her?
Pam Sorooshian's youngest daughter was asked once how she learned to
tie her shoes if she didn't go to school. She asked the girl who was
asking that something like "They teach that in school?"
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pamela Sorooshian
On Nov 15, 2008, at 7:09 AM, Sandra Dodd wrote:
Ronny, BOTH said they'd been asked more than once, and recently (they
are 17 and 18 years old), how they learned to tie their shoes if they
didn't go to school. They're both sort of bewildered by the question
but the young moms sitting around in the park pointed out that kids DO
get taught to tie their shoes in pre-school - using a practice shoe.
So, I thought I'd look to see if they still sell those big practice
shoes that I remember having in kindergarten, and look what I found -
a detailed description of what is taught in a state preschool. I'm
quoting just a bit of it here - the very first item includes learning
to tie shoes. There is lot more and I found it pretty interesting: <http://www.hrchs.org/stpreschool.php
WHAT WILL MY CHILD LEARN IN STATE PRESCHOOL?
EDUCATION
The most important goal is to develop and nurture a child's self-
esteem. The program believes the future success of your child depends
on a healthy self-image and pride in his family. With this ultimate
goal in mind, the teaching staff along with input from parents plans a
curriculum that encourages curiosity, provides successful experiences
for children and promotes social skills necessary to prepare them for
later school experiences. The curriculum covers the following areas.
CURRICULUM
Self-Help Skills: Children are encouraged to perform self-care
routines and tasks for themselves such as: setting tables, serving
themselves at the table, snapping, zipping, and buttoning their own
clothes, tying shoes, putting on own jackets, taking care of toileting
needs, brushing teeth and cleaning up after play.
***************
Also, at the end of that page, they talk about assessment and they say:
***************
ASSESSMENT
Each child is assessed to identify their developmental strengths and
emerging skills. In order to plan an individualized learning program
of activities, teachers will meet with parents to discuss each child's
progress and develop strategies to meet goals. A portfolio will be
used to collect samples of each child's work.
We also assess children using the Child Outcomes and Results Profile.
Infant/Toddlers are assessed four times a year with this tool.
Preschool children are assessed three times a year. This information
is used to plan your child's individual program. Parents will receive
a summary of these reports at the end of each school year.
****************
Kids 4 and under, including infants and toddlers are being assessed
multiple times a year with the "Child Outcomes and Results Profile"
and their teachers are following a curriculum and collecting work
samples to put in their portfolio. Oh, and the parents get a summary
of the assessment results.
I also found some articles about whether or not children need to be
taught to tie shoes - whether it should it shouldn't be part of the
curriculum, anymore. The argument against it is that most of the young
kid shoes are made with velcro fasteners, these days. The argument for
it is that tying shoes is good small motor skills practice.
-pam
> Pam Sorooshian's youngest daughter was asked once how she learned toThis came up at our park day the other day. Rosie and her friend,
> tie her shoes if she didn't go to school. She asked the girl who was
> asking that something like "They teach that in school?"
Ronny, BOTH said they'd been asked more than once, and recently (they
are 17 and 18 years old), how they learned to tie their shoes if they
didn't go to school. They're both sort of bewildered by the question
but the young moms sitting around in the park pointed out that kids DO
get taught to tie their shoes in pre-school - using a practice shoe.
So, I thought I'd look to see if they still sell those big practice
shoes that I remember having in kindergarten, and look what I found -
a detailed description of what is taught in a state preschool. I'm
quoting just a bit of it here - the very first item includes learning
to tie shoes. There is lot more and I found it pretty interesting: <http://www.hrchs.org/stpreschool.php
>.***************
WHAT WILL MY CHILD LEARN IN STATE PRESCHOOL?
EDUCATION
The most important goal is to develop and nurture a child's self-
esteem. The program believes the future success of your child depends
on a healthy self-image and pride in his family. With this ultimate
goal in mind, the teaching staff along with input from parents plans a
curriculum that encourages curiosity, provides successful experiences
for children and promotes social skills necessary to prepare them for
later school experiences. The curriculum covers the following areas.
CURRICULUM
Self-Help Skills: Children are encouraged to perform self-care
routines and tasks for themselves such as: setting tables, serving
themselves at the table, snapping, zipping, and buttoning their own
clothes, tying shoes, putting on own jackets, taking care of toileting
needs, brushing teeth and cleaning up after play.
***************
Also, at the end of that page, they talk about assessment and they say:
***************
ASSESSMENT
Each child is assessed to identify their developmental strengths and
emerging skills. In order to plan an individualized learning program
of activities, teachers will meet with parents to discuss each child's
progress and develop strategies to meet goals. A portfolio will be
used to collect samples of each child's work.
We also assess children using the Child Outcomes and Results Profile.
Infant/Toddlers are assessed four times a year with this tool.
Preschool children are assessed three times a year. This information
is used to plan your child's individual program. Parents will receive
a summary of these reports at the end of each school year.
****************
Kids 4 and under, including infants and toddlers are being assessed
multiple times a year with the "Child Outcomes and Results Profile"
and their teachers are following a curriculum and collecting work
samples to put in their portfolio. Oh, and the parents get a summary
of the assessment results.
I also found some articles about whether or not children need to be
taught to tie shoes - whether it should it shouldn't be part of the
curriculum, anymore. The argument against it is that most of the young
kid shoes are made with velcro fasteners, these days. The argument for
it is that tying shoes is good small motor skills practice.
-pam
Jenny C
> I also found some articles about whether or not children need to beThis is a large part of what allowed me to find my expert parenting self
> taught to tie shoes - whether it should it shouldn't be part of the
> curriculum, anymore. The argument against it is that most of the young
> kid shoes are made with velcro fasteners, these days. The argument for
> it is that tying shoes is good small motor skills practice.
in regards to Chamille when she was little. She'd been tying things and
making knots and cutting intricate things from the time she was 3, but
she wouldn't hold a pencil and write her name! Some child expert told
me that she was developmentally behind in her fine motor skills because
of her lack of pencil holding! Obviously, I knew better! I suddenly
realized that I may know more than a lot of experts, and that what
experts know, has very little to do with my child.
It's good to know that pencil holding isn't the only form of find motor
skills these days! Or is it a good thing? Why do little kids need to
be assessed anyway! If they can't tie their shoes now, in a couple of
years they may just be able to. Same with reading, and all those other
"bench marks".
Margaux really wanted to know how to tie her own shoes, so I showed her,
and showed her and showed her. She figured out on her own, the bunny
ear method, and came and showed me. It turns out my way of tying shoes
was all wrong for her!
Jenny C
>It seems to me that those are the first things to disappear from a child
> EDUCATION
> The most important goal is to develop and nurture a child's self-
> esteem. The program believes the future success of your child depends
> on a healthy self-image and pride in his family.
forced to be at school. How can a child have a healthy self esteem and
pride in his family if he's with strangers all day? It isn't
compatible.
Jenny C
> What do you say when people ask about unschooling and non-unschoolersDepending on what they've said, I may add to it or counter it. I've
> respond?
heard non-unschoolers give fairly apt definitions of unschooling.
Or when people who aren't unschoolers call themselves
> unschoolers then talk about curriculum? Or when people say- weI figure, they really don't get unschooling. Sometimes it seems worth
> unschool for reading and history, but not math and science- like it's
> just another curriculum?
pointing out, and sometimes it doesn't. Some people are very stubborn
about these things. I've even heard of parents with kids in school,
saying they homeschool after school hours. It's certainly not my
definition of homeschooling, and unschooling with a curriculum seems
about as absurd to me as homeschooling after school.
Pamela Sorooshian
On Nov 15, 2008, at 11:12 AM, Jenny C wrote:
ideas of unschooling are really different."
-pam
>> What do you say when people ask about unschooling and non-unschoolersI have said, with a smile and a knowing look to the person, "Well, our
>> respond?
>
ideas of unschooling are really different."
-pam
Sandra Dodd
-=- The program believes the future success of your child depends
on a healthy self-image and pride in his family. With this ultimate
goal in mind...-=-
They teach that in school!? <bwg>
I guess healthy self-image and pride in family can't be entrusted to
amateurs or parents. ProFESSionals are the only ones who can take a
child away from home and then tell him to be proud of his family and
to feel good about himself.
-=-taking care of toileting needs... A portfolio will be used to
collect samples of each child's work.-=-
Eeeyew, no! No "toileting needs" samples!
Holly's boyfriend, after trying to get a job for months, got three.
He had taken one and he kept not getting enough hours, and they would
put him off for several days at a time, and then he got a temporary
medical lab job with bizarre hours (4:00 a.m. to 7:00 a.m.), and when
driving home from his training session, was called by an upscale shoe
store (where he honestly would like to work) and offered a job. But
in the paperwork for the lab job they explained that techs must be
willing and able to handle samples of blood, urine and feces (poo).
The technical term "feces" was translated into English as "poo."
-=-I also found some articles about whether or not children need to be
taught to tie shoes - whether it should it shouldn't be part of the
curriculum, anymore. The argument against it is that most of the young
kid shoes are made with velcro fasteners, these days. The argument for
it is that tying shoes is good small motor skills practice.-=-
There's probably some business-jargon term they could use to take the
skill out and generalize it to a larger base: A bow knot can be used
to tie hair ribbons and belts, and gifts, and... Surely there are
other uses than shoes.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
on a healthy self-image and pride in his family. With this ultimate
goal in mind...-=-
They teach that in school!? <bwg>
I guess healthy self-image and pride in family can't be entrusted to
amateurs or parents. ProFESSionals are the only ones who can take a
child away from home and then tell him to be proud of his family and
to feel good about himself.
-=-taking care of toileting needs... A portfolio will be used to
collect samples of each child's work.-=-
Eeeyew, no! No "toileting needs" samples!
Holly's boyfriend, after trying to get a job for months, got three.
He had taken one and he kept not getting enough hours, and they would
put him off for several days at a time, and then he got a temporary
medical lab job with bizarre hours (4:00 a.m. to 7:00 a.m.), and when
driving home from his training session, was called by an upscale shoe
store (where he honestly would like to work) and offered a job. But
in the paperwork for the lab job they explained that techs must be
willing and able to handle samples of blood, urine and feces (poo).
The technical term "feces" was translated into English as "poo."
-=-I also found some articles about whether or not children need to be
taught to tie shoes - whether it should it shouldn't be part of the
curriculum, anymore. The argument against it is that most of the young
kid shoes are made with velcro fasteners, these days. The argument for
it is that tying shoes is good small motor skills practice.-=-
There's probably some business-jargon term they could use to take the
skill out and generalize it to a larger base: A bow knot can be used
to tie hair ribbons and belts, and gifts, and... Surely there are
other uses than shoes.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-I've even heard of parents with kids in school,
saying they homeschool after school hours. -=-
The real bummer about that is that those kids will hate school AND
hate homeschooling, even though they were never homeschooled.
I've heard structured homeschoolers say they unschool on weekends
and in the summer.
It's irresponsible use of language. <g>
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
saying they homeschool after school hours. -=-
The real bummer about that is that those kids will hate school AND
hate homeschooling, even though they were never homeschooled.
I've heard structured homeschoolers say they unschool on weekends
and in the summer.
It's irresponsible use of language. <g>
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ed Wendell
The hidden agenda is probably that the teacher cannot tie forty shoes (20 pairs) multiple times a day and "teach" anything else ;)
Lisa W.
I also found some articles about whether or not children need to be
taught to tie shoes - whether it should it shouldn't be part of the curriculum, anymore. The argument against it is that most of the young
kid shoes are made with velcro fasteners, these days. The argument for
it is that tying shoes is good small motor skills practice.
.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lisa W.
I also found some articles about whether or not children need to be
taught to tie shoes - whether it should it shouldn't be part of the curriculum, anymore. The argument against it is that most of the young
kid shoes are made with velcro fasteners, these days. The argument for
it is that tying shoes is good small motor skills practice.
.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
trude_flys
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
they are testing themselves, and testing the waters as they try out
new thinking patterns.
My oldest went to school for three years - for most of this time I
had absolutely no idea that homeschooling existed or (once I had
heard of it) that it was a viable for us.
During those years at school, we would fill our weekends will trips
to the beach, museum, art gallery and we would have lots and lots of
fun at home with paint and glue and mud and clay....these were our
sanity hours that helped all of us survive the school setting.
Eventually I discovered that school was impeding (on a timetable
perspective) our ability to do what we were enjoying. so we
eventually decided to leave school. I would in those days sometimes
say that I didn't have time to take the kids to school...they were
learning to much with us.
I now suggest to parents who are cautious about taking their children
out of school (remembering that a lot of adults were brought up in
these institutions themselves!) that they try to fit lots of fun,
things into their weekends and hoildays and see how that feels for
everyone. With a rich life outside of 'office hours' they may find
that school works just fine for them, or like us it may become more
and more apparent how incompatible the institutional learning is with
who they are as a family and who the children are as people.
all the best
Trude
>yes, and there may be other reasons that they are saying this...maybe
> -=-I've even heard of parents with kids in school,
> saying they homeschool after school hours. -=-
>
> The real bummer about that is that those kids will hate school AND
> hate homeschooling, even though they were never homeschooled.
>
> I've heard structured homeschoolers say they unschool on weekends
> and in the summer.
>
> It's irresponsible use of language. <g>
>
they are testing themselves, and testing the waters as they try out
new thinking patterns.
My oldest went to school for three years - for most of this time I
had absolutely no idea that homeschooling existed or (once I had
heard of it) that it was a viable for us.
During those years at school, we would fill our weekends will trips
to the beach, museum, art gallery and we would have lots and lots of
fun at home with paint and glue and mud and clay....these were our
sanity hours that helped all of us survive the school setting.
Eventually I discovered that school was impeding (on a timetable
perspective) our ability to do what we were enjoying. so we
eventually decided to leave school. I would in those days sometimes
say that I didn't have time to take the kids to school...they were
learning to much with us.
I now suggest to parents who are cautious about taking their children
out of school (remembering that a lot of adults were brought up in
these institutions themselves!) that they try to fit lots of fun,
things into their weekends and hoildays and see how that feels for
everyone. With a rich life outside of 'office hours' they may find
that school works just fine for them, or like us it may become more
and more apparent how incompatible the institutional learning is with
who they are as a family and who the children are as people.
all the best
Trude
lyeping2008
--- In [email protected], "Ed Wendell" <ewendell@...>
wrote: The hidden agenda is probably that the teacher cannot tie forty
shoes (20 pairs) multiple times a day and "teach" anything else ;)>
Lisa W.
The argument against it is that most of the young kid shoes are made
with velcro fasteners, these days. The argument for it is that tying
shoes is good small motor skills practice.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Lisa and Ed, very true. The hidden agenda of tying shoe laces lessons
and many more "life skills" is all about effective classroom
management. It is all about a Bigger Agenda, in the long run.
To me, it is here where the trouble starts- the authorities has used
common life skills to disguise thier own "classroom management" needs.
By passing off a few more like dressing oneself and toilet needs, the
authorities has effectively encroached and transferring upon themselves
(as and when it suits them to do so, )a big part of a parent's
responsibility as the nurturing and teaching adult.
This has lulled alot of today's parents into thinking that it is OK to
relinquish such parenting responsibilities, and confidences that the
state have more resources, and might possibly do a more effective job
than them.
It is very much about "let the teacher tell my child what to do
because my kids don't listen to me". We(as in unschoolers) all now
know our children is capable of thier own mind and opinions.
It is quite common to hear a grateful parent citing "rather the
teacher than me" comment.
To me, this has created the "easy parenting" mentality. I have known
many SAHM who see school not only as an educational method but also as
a babysitting service, which is why they groan about school holidays.
It has also given some irresponsible parents the perfect excuse to
wash thier hands off thier responsibilities towards thier kids very
early on; enabling them to continue thier adult life as normal; and
then to blame someone, by passing off thier kids' bad behaviour as the
school's failings, and never thiers.
I always question "Why have children when you cannot imagine loving
being near them?" Why have another when you clearly dont' appreciate
having the first one around you all the time? "Why did they become
mothers when they clearly prefer life without such "perceived
emcumbrances".
What were they expecting from motherhood?
This "easy parenting" is what they were expecting from motherhood. As
such, they are only too happy to allow the school to take away more
and more of thier parenting responsibilities, thus saving them the
hassle of needing to do themselves.
In UK, this is how I see it.
The state has effectively created a "pass the bucket" scenario between
them and the parents, whereby nobody is taking responsibility towards
the child. The state feels the parents need to do more for the child,
and the parents feel the state is not doing enough for that huge
amount of time the child is in school.
Which is why when one decides to educate their youngs on thier own,
the public sees them as mad people, because the public is convinced
that we could not possibly 1) enjoy being with our kids all the time
(as alot of them clearly told me it'll drive them mad!LOL!) 2)we
couldn't possibly handle the full responsibility and accountability
towards our children well being.
Again, it's back to the "there must be a very good reason why schools
is teaching how to tie your shoes laces and wipe your own bum" skills.
Because it all about "mind control and moulding them from young".
Never mind that Velcro is the "new shoe laces" and cellophane tape is
the new "string" to hold your postage package together; The keyboard
is the new way to "write" your letter, and the spell check is the
new "way" to learn correct spellings.
And that calculator is a blessing for those of us who is very
impatient. I found using the calculator has enable me and son to
continue on with our maths learning and solving many mathematical
wonders without getting stuck, fretting and struggling thru
multiplications and long divisions.
So many new inventions created to help us humankinds to progress
further and easier into our lives, promoting better and faster
learning as we go along. So many fantastic inventions created to
bridge our "in-abilities" whether it's temporary or for permanent, so
that nothing stop us being able to progress further.
So indeed, the un-deniable truth is, there must be a VERY good and
logical reason why school still insist on hanging onto old methods and
not embracing the new, insisting that our children must know how to
tie shoes laces irregardless shoes laces is on it's way out. Soon
they'll be teaching how to have a bath, as they are already teaching
how and what to eat, and how to "sex education".
The question is Why, and Who, does this Reason serve.
By the end of the day, we all know, no matter how they dress it up,
whether it is life skills or mental skills, the bigger agenda is
still that school is just a factory churning out future workforce
drones, law abiding, never straying and uniformingly the same and
predictable.
My kid's a cellophane and Velcro tape kid LOL!! Perhap oneday, he
might get interested in finding out to tie a ribbon (maybe a
girlfriend might instigate this need? lol) or how his dad is so clever
in doing that butcher's knot for mummy's roast pork joint, and maybe
venture into knottings and ropes for a bit of kinky sex! But then
maybe not, maybe he'll stick to his Velcro and cellophane tape! LOL!!!
My kid's fine motor skills is fantastic, all thanks to the Lego
Company for it's little bricks; and Nintendo DS for it's little stylus
and screen; that little screw driver to open up anything, for all his
toys requries constant batteries replacement.
Oh my goodness LOL!!! Imagine being told that you've failed your
toilet test when you're 4!!??? Try telling that to an Amazonian kid
LOL!!
Best Wishes,
SharonBugs.
wrote: The hidden agenda is probably that the teacher cannot tie forty
shoes (20 pairs) multiple times a day and "teach" anything else ;)>
Lisa W.
The argument against it is that most of the young kid shoes are made
with velcro fasteners, these days. The argument for it is that tying
shoes is good small motor skills practice.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Lisa and Ed, very true. The hidden agenda of tying shoe laces lessons
and many more "life skills" is all about effective classroom
management. It is all about a Bigger Agenda, in the long run.
To me, it is here where the trouble starts- the authorities has used
common life skills to disguise thier own "classroom management" needs.
By passing off a few more like dressing oneself and toilet needs, the
authorities has effectively encroached and transferring upon themselves
(as and when it suits them to do so, )a big part of a parent's
responsibility as the nurturing and teaching adult.
This has lulled alot of today's parents into thinking that it is OK to
relinquish such parenting responsibilities, and confidences that the
state have more resources, and might possibly do a more effective job
than them.
It is very much about "let the teacher tell my child what to do
because my kids don't listen to me". We(as in unschoolers) all now
know our children is capable of thier own mind and opinions.
It is quite common to hear a grateful parent citing "rather the
teacher than me" comment.
To me, this has created the "easy parenting" mentality. I have known
many SAHM who see school not only as an educational method but also as
a babysitting service, which is why they groan about school holidays.
It has also given some irresponsible parents the perfect excuse to
wash thier hands off thier responsibilities towards thier kids very
early on; enabling them to continue thier adult life as normal; and
then to blame someone, by passing off thier kids' bad behaviour as the
school's failings, and never thiers.
I always question "Why have children when you cannot imagine loving
being near them?" Why have another when you clearly dont' appreciate
having the first one around you all the time? "Why did they become
mothers when they clearly prefer life without such "perceived
emcumbrances".
What were they expecting from motherhood?
This "easy parenting" is what they were expecting from motherhood. As
such, they are only too happy to allow the school to take away more
and more of thier parenting responsibilities, thus saving them the
hassle of needing to do themselves.
In UK, this is how I see it.
The state has effectively created a "pass the bucket" scenario between
them and the parents, whereby nobody is taking responsibility towards
the child. The state feels the parents need to do more for the child,
and the parents feel the state is not doing enough for that huge
amount of time the child is in school.
Which is why when one decides to educate their youngs on thier own,
the public sees them as mad people, because the public is convinced
that we could not possibly 1) enjoy being with our kids all the time
(as alot of them clearly told me it'll drive them mad!LOL!) 2)we
couldn't possibly handle the full responsibility and accountability
towards our children well being.
Again, it's back to the "there must be a very good reason why schools
is teaching how to tie your shoes laces and wipe your own bum" skills.
Because it all about "mind control and moulding them from young".
Never mind that Velcro is the "new shoe laces" and cellophane tape is
the new "string" to hold your postage package together; The keyboard
is the new way to "write" your letter, and the spell check is the
new "way" to learn correct spellings.
And that calculator is a blessing for those of us who is very
impatient. I found using the calculator has enable me and son to
continue on with our maths learning and solving many mathematical
wonders without getting stuck, fretting and struggling thru
multiplications and long divisions.
So many new inventions created to help us humankinds to progress
further and easier into our lives, promoting better and faster
learning as we go along. So many fantastic inventions created to
bridge our "in-abilities" whether it's temporary or for permanent, so
that nothing stop us being able to progress further.
So indeed, the un-deniable truth is, there must be a VERY good and
logical reason why school still insist on hanging onto old methods and
not embracing the new, insisting that our children must know how to
tie shoes laces irregardless shoes laces is on it's way out. Soon
they'll be teaching how to have a bath, as they are already teaching
how and what to eat, and how to "sex education".
The question is Why, and Who, does this Reason serve.
By the end of the day, we all know, no matter how they dress it up,
whether it is life skills or mental skills, the bigger agenda is
still that school is just a factory churning out future workforce
drones, law abiding, never straying and uniformingly the same and
predictable.
My kid's a cellophane and Velcro tape kid LOL!! Perhap oneday, he
might get interested in finding out to tie a ribbon (maybe a
girlfriend might instigate this need? lol) or how his dad is so clever
in doing that butcher's knot for mummy's roast pork joint, and maybe
venture into knottings and ropes for a bit of kinky sex! But then
maybe not, maybe he'll stick to his Velcro and cellophane tape! LOL!!!
My kid's fine motor skills is fantastic, all thanks to the Lego
Company for it's little bricks; and Nintendo DS for it's little stylus
and screen; that little screw driver to open up anything, for all his
toys requries constant batteries replacement.
Oh my goodness LOL!!! Imagine being told that you've failed your
toilet test when you're 4!!??? Try telling that to an Amazonian kid
LOL!!
Best Wishes,
SharonBugs.
lyeping2008
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
I've heard structured homeschoolers say they unschool on weekends
> and in the summer. It's irresponsible use of language. <g>
> Sandra
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hmmm, maybe this is how they perceived unschooling to be, like a
holiday. Every holiday "day" is a happy day, full of fun, full of
hope, of discoveries and harmonious living, no measuring, no targets
to meet. It is really very much that saying "Today is a "Present",
unveiling itself as we goes along with it's flow.
Me and son's unschooling is very much like a holiday. We just believe
it should be an everyday thing, and not just limited to weekends or
holidays.
Infact, time is no longer a concept to us because we wake when we
wake, sleep when we sleep. We eat when we're hungry. We go swimming
when we feel like it, and we wear pjs all the time. Everyday is a new
day, fluid and flexible to accomodate whatever needs that arises. The
only time we observe time is when it's a doctor or dentist appt.
Every food, is food. No disticntion needed. We can have cornflakes
with soft boiled egg for dinner, we have full Japanese hot rice and
tofu and soup for breakfast and pancakes for lunch. Yesterday, we had
cupcakes for dinner and curried rice for supper at 9pm.
It may sounds lazy and irrresponsible to some, but really, it isn't.
It's called living life to the fullest abd be happy. We are very
active all the time, and is constantly in the middle of something,
churning out loads of learnings and understanding of our world around
us.
I know it's not how we would like to protray unschooling as- a long
hippi-ish, leisurely, harmonious and happy holiday without
expectations, but really, our lives is very much like this, and I
cannot possibly protray it otherwise. Other than to ensure we're well
dressed and smart whenever we're step out of our house LOL! But then
this has nothing to do with unschooling, I have always been a
fashionista of some sort, i do appreciate lovely clothes and shoes and
DS is beginning to show a preferance for his own sense of style.
Some may classified me as ignorant or irresponsible or neglectful
parent because of my obvious disregard to conventional parenting, with
all it's rules and regulations. But to my perception, it is on
contrary to what they say.
Infact, I am more responsible, more attentive, more informed and
intuned with my son than I have ever been before.
So, perhap they maybe right in thier perception of "unschooling"
during weekend and hoilidays only. In a sense that they could see the
joy (and not necessary the long term benefits)of unschooling - the
happiness, freedom and the luxury of being just yourself and not
having to measure up and do schedules. They seems to understand the
beneficial properties of such living and feeling, which is why they
are using it to re-cuperate and re-juvenate from thier stressful
everyday lives.
But I just can't imagine how they can justify it's responsible
parenting and love, when they are teaching their children to only be
happy, only be comfortable being themselves, and accept and understand
that parents are only happy and comfortable being with them, ONLY
during weekends and holidays.
How can they justify it as positive parenting, when they teach thier
children to fear that the very core of the themselves is not good
enough. That the child need to work hard put to aside thier instinct
and desires, to concentrate on stuff like lessons, and schedules and
staying on the grades, in order to justify thier worthiness and
usefulness.
So perhaps, they do see the goodness of unschooling, which is learning
without structure but thru living life as it is. They just don't
believe it is good enough on it's own, which is why they are using it
to supplement thier already full and structured weekday homeschooling
learnings. To how they see it, the learning still continues, on the
weekend and holidays. They are just learning "non relevant, non
important, non academic" stuff, according to thier perspective.
To me, this is the most important and the very basis of everything to
come. Academics is just an in-evitable by-product of our unschooling.
Best Wishes
SharonBugs.
Margaret
My daughter can't tie a bow, but she has a blast with knots. They are
very useful. She learned how to tie them herself and while what she
does doesn't match a knot book, they stay together very well and she
loves doing them. I think it started with the laces from the lacing
toys we have. I don't know that she laced the lacing toys more than
once or twice, but she loves the string. I also bought a plain jump
rope and it gets used more as normal rope than as a jump rope.
Let's see, this weekend she tied the rope as a leash around a small
duck and then switched to string when the duck kept falling out. She
used the rope to have her younger brother drag get across the hardwood
floors (knotted to make a loop which she was inside) as she was a baby
and couldn't walk. She also used the rope to connect her fort to her
brothers fort so that Lucy Little would be able to climb the rope
between them if Lucy came out of the walls at night. Probably more
rope/string stuff, but that is what springs to mind.
String makes great living room spider webs. Masking tape does too :)
Margaret
very useful. She learned how to tie them herself and while what she
does doesn't match a knot book, they stay together very well and she
loves doing them. I think it started with the laces from the lacing
toys we have. I don't know that she laced the lacing toys more than
once or twice, but she loves the string. I also bought a plain jump
rope and it gets used more as normal rope than as a jump rope.
Let's see, this weekend she tied the rope as a leash around a small
duck and then switched to string when the duck kept falling out. She
used the rope to have her younger brother drag get across the hardwood
floors (knotted to make a loop which she was inside) as she was a baby
and couldn't walk. She also used the rope to connect her fort to her
brothers fort so that Lucy Little would be able to climb the rope
between them if Lucy came out of the walls at night. Probably more
rope/string stuff, but that is what springs to mind.
String makes great living room spider webs. Masking tape does too :)
Margaret
On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 7:04 AM, lyeping2008 <lyeping2008@...> wrote:
> --- In [email protected], "Ed Wendell" <ewendell@...>
> wrote: The hidden agenda is probably that the teacher cannot tie forty
> shoes (20 pairs) multiple times a day and "teach" anything else ;)>
> Lisa W.
>
> The argument against it is that most of the young kid shoes are made
> with velcro fasteners, these days. The argument for it is that tying
> shoes is good small motor skills practice.
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
> Lisa and Ed, very true. The hidden agenda of tying shoe laces lessons
> and many more "life skills" is all about effective classroom
> management. It is all about a Bigger Agenda, in the long run.
>
> To me, it is here where the trouble starts- the authorities has used
> common life skills to disguise thier own "classroom management" needs.
>
> By passing off a few more like dressing oneself and toilet needs, the
> authorities has effectively encroached and transferring upon themselves
> (as and when it suits them to do so, )a big part of a parent's
> responsibility as the nurturing and teaching adult.
>
> This has lulled alot of today's parents into thinking that it is OK to
> relinquish such parenting responsibilities, and confidences that the
> state have more resources, and might possibly do a more effective job
> than them.
>
> It is very much about "let the teacher tell my child what to do
> because my kids don't listen to me". We(as in unschoolers) all now
> know our children is capable of thier own mind and opinions.
>
> It is quite common to hear a grateful parent citing "rather the
> teacher than me" comment.
>
> To me, this has created the "easy parenting" mentality. I have known
> many SAHM who see school not only as an educational method but also as
> a babysitting service, which is why they groan about school holidays.
>
> It has also given some irresponsible parents the perfect excuse to
> wash thier hands off thier responsibilities towards thier kids very
> early on; enabling them to continue thier adult life as normal; and
> then to blame someone, by passing off thier kids' bad behaviour as the
> school's failings, and never thiers.
>
> I always question "Why have children when you cannot imagine loving
> being near them?" Why have another when you clearly dont' appreciate
> having the first one around you all the time? "Why did they become
> mothers when they clearly prefer life without such "perceived
> emcumbrances".
>
> What were they expecting from motherhood?
>
> This "easy parenting" is what they were expecting from motherhood. As
> such, they are only too happy to allow the school to take away more
> and more of thier parenting responsibilities, thus saving them the
> hassle of needing to do themselves.
>
> In UK, this is how I see it.
>
> The state has effectively created a "pass the bucket" scenario between
> them and the parents, whereby nobody is taking responsibility towards
> the child. The state feels the parents need to do more for the child,
> and the parents feel the state is not doing enough for that huge
> amount of time the child is in school.
>
> Which is why when one decides to educate their youngs on thier own,
> the public sees them as mad people, because the public is convinced
> that we could not possibly 1) enjoy being with our kids all the time
> (as alot of them clearly told me it'll drive them mad!LOL!) 2)we
> couldn't possibly handle the full responsibility and accountability
> towards our children well being.
>
> Again, it's back to the "there must be a very good reason why schools
> is teaching how to tie your shoes laces and wipe your own bum" skills.
>
> Because it all about "mind control and moulding them from young".
>
> Never mind that Velcro is the "new shoe laces" and cellophane tape is
> the new "string" to hold your postage package together; The keyboard
> is the new way to "write" your letter, and the spell check is the
> new "way" to learn correct spellings.
>
> And that calculator is a blessing for those of us who is very
> impatient. I found using the calculator has enable me and son to
> continue on with our maths learning and solving many mathematical
> wonders without getting stuck, fretting and struggling thru
> multiplications and long divisions.
>
> So many new inventions created to help us humankinds to progress
> further and easier into our lives, promoting better and faster
> learning as we go along. So many fantastic inventions created to
> bridge our "in-abilities" whether it's temporary or for permanent, so
> that nothing stop us being able to progress further.
>
> So indeed, the un-deniable truth is, there must be a VERY good and
> logical reason why school still insist on hanging onto old methods and
> not embracing the new, insisting that our children must know how to
> tie shoes laces irregardless shoes laces is on it's way out. Soon
> they'll be teaching how to have a bath, as they are already teaching
> how and what to eat, and how to "sex education".
>
> The question is Why, and Who, does this Reason serve.
>
> By the end of the day, we all know, no matter how they dress it up,
> whether it is life skills or mental skills, the bigger agenda is
> still that school is just a factory churning out future workforce
> drones, law abiding, never straying and uniformingly the same and
> predictable.
>
> My kid's a cellophane and Velcro tape kid LOL!! Perhap oneday, he
> might get interested in finding out to tie a ribbon (maybe a
> girlfriend might instigate this need? lol) or how his dad is so clever
> in doing that butcher's knot for mummy's roast pork joint, and maybe
> venture into knottings and ropes for a bit of kinky sex! But then
> maybe not, maybe he'll stick to his Velcro and cellophane tape! LOL!!!
>
> My kid's fine motor skills is fantastic, all thanks to the Lego
> Company for it's little bricks; and Nintendo DS for it's little stylus
> and screen; that little screw driver to open up anything, for all his
> toys requries constant batteries replacement.
>
> Oh my goodness LOL!!! Imagine being told that you've failed your
> toilet test when you're 4!!??? Try telling that to an Amazonian kid
> LOL!!
>
> Best Wishes,
> SharonBugs.
>
>
lyeping2008
--- In [email protected], Margaret <margaretz@...> wrote:
My daughter can't tie a bow, but she has a blast with knots. She
learned how to tie them herself and while what she
> does doesn't match a knot book, they stay together very well and she
loves doing them. String makes great living room spider webs.
Masking tape does too :)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
How fantastic to see you daughter's interest in strings, ropes and
knottings has translate into a tangible use. How clever isn't it, how
she see it's connection to the everyday world.
One time, my kid used cellophane tape to set up his ninja obstacle
training course! The clear cellophane tape was perfect for his
invisible laser sensors LOL!!
So he had cellophane tape criss crossing all over the living room LOL!!
SharonBugs.
Margaret
> How fantastic to see you daughter's interest in strings, ropes andI think I must have been unclear.
> knottings has translate into a tangible use. How clever isn't it, how
> she see it's connection to the everyday world.
Her interest in strings *started* with wanting to use them for real
things around her. To talk about seeing the connection to the every
day world suggests that there was a disconnect from the everyday world
at one point. It has been in her real everyday world from when she
first started doing it. Isn't that what unschooling is all about?
Strings, yarn, and rope are interesting and useful even this age of
velcro and tape. They are nice things to just have around even if
your kid likes tape and velcro and has no interest in tying their
shoes.
Margaret
(whose daughter just walked in the room dragging a full milk jug by a
string so that she didn't have to carry it)
Margaret
> I've heard structured homeschoolers say they unschool on weekendsThey seem to think it really is the same.
> and in the summer.
>
> It's irresponsible use of language. <g>
>
> Sandra
In a planning meeting for a local homeschool group (NOT an unschooling
group) the mom who founded it asked me if we were stopping for the
summer and then said, "Oh that's right, you don't do anything anyway."
I don't think she was saying it to be mean. She honestly believed
that we did nothing. I was too stunned to say anything sensible in
response.
Margaret
[email protected]
You should ask her to come over to celebrate "Learn Nothing Day" <g>.
Robin B.
Robin B.
>
> In a planning meeting for a local homeschool group (NOT an unschooling
> group) the mom who founded it asked me if we were stopping for the
> summer and then said, "Oh that's right, you don't do anything anyway."
> I don't think she was saying it to be mean. She honestly believed
> that we did nothing. I was too stunned to say anything sensible in
> response.
Sandra Dodd
-=-The state has effectively created a "pass the bucket" scenario
between
them and the parents, whereby nobody is taking responsibility towards
the child. The state feels the parents need to do more for the child,
and the parents feel the state is not doing enough for that huge
amount of time the child is in school. -=-
When Holly was little, three and four, she had a friend in the
neighborhood who loved to come to our house and paint. We had paper
and all kinds of water colors and she would paint merrily.
On one of her birthdays, 6th or 7th, we gave her a watercolors book,
with little examples and lessons, and places right on the pages and
the water colors were mounted at the bottom. It was really nice, and
all self contained. Her mom wouldn't let her use it in their house,
though. She said her daughter could paint at school.
I think at that point the only painting she had ever done was at our
house, and we moved, so I don't know what painting she might've
gotten to do later.
There are parents who think their kids can learn music at school, and
have friends and play at school, and learn sex ed at school (which is
interesting, since when schools first started wanting to teach it,
parents said "That's for parents to do," but sure enough nowadays
when a kid gets pregnant or gets a disease, people say "Why didn't
they tell them at school?")...
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
between
them and the parents, whereby nobody is taking responsibility towards
the child. The state feels the parents need to do more for the child,
and the parents feel the state is not doing enough for that huge
amount of time the child is in school. -=-
When Holly was little, three and four, she had a friend in the
neighborhood who loved to come to our house and paint. We had paper
and all kinds of water colors and she would paint merrily.
On one of her birthdays, 6th or 7th, we gave her a watercolors book,
with little examples and lessons, and places right on the pages and
the water colors were mounted at the bottom. It was really nice, and
all self contained. Her mom wouldn't let her use it in their house,
though. She said her daughter could paint at school.
I think at that point the only painting she had ever done was at our
house, and we moved, so I don't know what painting she might've
gotten to do later.
There are parents who think their kids can learn music at school, and
have friends and play at school, and learn sex ed at school (which is
interesting, since when schools first started wanting to teach it,
parents said "That's for parents to do," but sure enough nowadays
when a kid gets pregnant or gets a disease, people say "Why didn't
they tell them at school?")...
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
There's a link to a site on many interesting ways to tie shoe laces
(or to lace shoes, at least) here:
http://sandradodd.com/art
Knot tying can lead to all kinds of history and geography. Hunters,
traps, climbing, ships (wrapped bottles, in addition to all kinds of
sail rigging and tethering knots), and cowboy stuff, and...
Sandra
(or to lace shoes, at least) here:
http://sandradodd.com/art
Knot tying can lead to all kinds of history and geography. Hunters,
traps, climbing, ships (wrapped bottles, in addition to all kinds of
sail rigging and tethering knots), and cowboy stuff, and...
Sandra
Margaret
And math - knot theory!
http://www.cut-the-knot.org/do_you_know/knots.shtml seems like a good
site on the subject and they recommend the book "Experiments in
Topology" which I own and have played with. No calculations required.
Some of the experiments where you make a mobius strip and cut it to
make new things are especially neat.
They also link to this site which is very cool:
http://www.earlham.edu/~peters/knotlink.htm . It has a section on
knot art. I looked at some Chinese knots and they were beautiful.
I just showed the picture to my daughter and I am now working on a
tying a chinese flower knot with a jump rope... third time is the
charm (fingers crossed).
Margaret
http://www.cut-the-knot.org/do_you_know/knots.shtml seems like a good
site on the subject and they recommend the book "Experiments in
Topology" which I own and have played with. No calculations required.
Some of the experiments where you make a mobius strip and cut it to
make new things are especially neat.
They also link to this site which is very cool:
http://www.earlham.edu/~peters/knotlink.htm . It has a section on
knot art. I looked at some Chinese knots and they were beautiful.
I just showed the picture to my daughter and I am now working on a
tying a chinese flower knot with a jump rope... third time is the
charm (fingers crossed).
Margaret
On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 4:52 PM, Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
> There's a link to a site on many interesting ways to tie shoe laces
> (or to lace shoes, at least) here:
> http://sandradodd.com/art
>
> Knot tying can lead to all kinds of history and geography. Hunters,
> traps, climbing, ships (wrapped bottles, in addition to all kinds of
> sail rigging and tethering knots), and cowboy stuff, and...
>
> Sandra
[email protected]
>I found a history on tatting, which evolved from "knotting" and likely originated in Ancient Egypt. I have some small doilies and a centerpiece that my grandmother tatted (though I didn't realize until now that that was what it was called!)
> Knot tying can lead to all kinds of history and geography. Hunters,
> traps, climbing, ships (wrapped bottles, in addition to all kinds of
> sail rigging and tethering knots), and cowboy stuff, and...
http://www.navarroriverknits.com/tatting.html
Robin B.
Cassie Sala
<>>>>>>>>>Infact, time is no longer a concept to us because we wake when we
wake, sleep when we sleep. We eat when we're hungry. We go swimming
when we feel like it, and we wear pjs all the time. >>>>>>>>>>>
Wow! If I could just get my boy's to KEEP those PJ's ON!!! It really takes a LOT to get them to get dressed, and sometimes, we even "give up" on leaving the house for something, like the store, or even swim lesson! If it's too much of a struggle for one of them or both to put some clothes on, I end up just telling them that we don't HAVE to, if they don't want to get dressed, we don't have to go. they sometimes opt to stay home just because they'd rather not get dressed at all! I sware, our loose lifestyle seems pretty loose to me sometimes!! Oh well, I keep reminding myself, and hubby, one day, they'll want to put clothes on.....I suppose, I mean, I assume! Will they??? :)
I, myself, have had MY PJ bottoms on ALL DAY, but the house is clean, It's all good! :)
~Cassie~
http://hyenacart.com/canyonriverherbals
http://canyonandriversday.blogspot.com
"We must be the change we want to see happen in the world" ~Ghandi
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
wake, sleep when we sleep. We eat when we're hungry. We go swimming
when we feel like it, and we wear pjs all the time. >>>>>>>>>>>
Wow! If I could just get my boy's to KEEP those PJ's ON!!! It really takes a LOT to get them to get dressed, and sometimes, we even "give up" on leaving the house for something, like the store, or even swim lesson! If it's too much of a struggle for one of them or both to put some clothes on, I end up just telling them that we don't HAVE to, if they don't want to get dressed, we don't have to go. they sometimes opt to stay home just because they'd rather not get dressed at all! I sware, our loose lifestyle seems pretty loose to me sometimes!! Oh well, I keep reminding myself, and hubby, one day, they'll want to put clothes on.....I suppose, I mean, I assume! Will they??? :)
I, myself, have had MY PJ bottoms on ALL DAY, but the house is clean, It's all good! :)
~Cassie~
http://hyenacart.com/canyonriverherbals
http://canyonandriversday.blogspot.com
"We must be the change we want to see happen in the world" ~Ghandi
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
lyeping2008
--- In [email protected], "Cassie Sala" <loopynutjob@...>
wrote: one day, they'll want to put clothes on.....I suppose, I mean,
I assume! Will they??? :)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
One day, when there's a reason to get dressed, they WILL!! LOL!!
To yur kids, at the moment, "not getting dressed" seems like a better
option than "getting dressed".
This is my philosophy. When he has a reason to do something, my kid
will LOL!
At the moment, he's beginning to find the reason to put his jacket on
when outside, because it's getting to cold to be walking around in
just shorts and short sleeved t-shirts!!??
I just let him get on with it, walking out the house with shorts and
tshirts, declaring he's not cold. I just bring along his jacket and
long pants in the car, and somewhere along the journey, he'll declare
it's cold. I suggest "jacket and long pants?", and he'll think it's a
great idea and get changed in the car LOL!!!
So there you go, when there's a reason to do so, he'll do it,
naturally.
Hugs,
SharonBugs.
wrote: one day, they'll want to put clothes on.....I suppose, I mean,
I assume! Will they??? :)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
One day, when there's a reason to get dressed, they WILL!! LOL!!
To yur kids, at the moment, "not getting dressed" seems like a better
option than "getting dressed".
This is my philosophy. When he has a reason to do something, my kid
will LOL!
At the moment, he's beginning to find the reason to put his jacket on
when outside, because it's getting to cold to be walking around in
just shorts and short sleeved t-shirts!!??
I just let him get on with it, walking out the house with shorts and
tshirts, declaring he's not cold. I just bring along his jacket and
long pants in the car, and somewhere along the journey, he'll declare
it's cold. I suggest "jacket and long pants?", and he'll think it's a
great idea and get changed in the car LOL!!!
So there you go, when there's a reason to do so, he'll do it,
naturally.
Hugs,
SharonBugs.
lyeping2008
--- In [email protected], Margaret <margaretz@...>
wrote:
"Oh that's right, you don't do anything anyway." I don't think she
was saying it to be mean. She honestly believed that we did
nothing. I was too stunned to say anything sensible in response.
Margaret
--------------------------------------------------------------------
OOoooh Margaret...that really STINGS!!! I can see how you're too
stunned to reply LOL! Because she sounded arrogant and
patronising!!!
If she had said, "you don't do lessons", that would have been
correct and fine with me. But because she said "you do nothing", to
me, that is a sweeping and patronising comment that literally means
we're lazy, dozing around and doing nothing.
To me, for her to pass such comments is being discriminating and
rude. Just because we don't do schedule lessons or workbooks,
doesn't mean my child is sitting at home being brain dead and not
learning.
Sorry Margaret, I would not have let her go lightly, whether she was
being naive or not. For her to have such wrong information and
opinions about unschoolers, this itself needs to be set right. It
wouldn't do anyone good for her to pass on such negative views of us
unschoolers.
It could be possible that she really didn't implied what she said,
of which even more reason for her to understand that she needs to re-
phrase her sentence.
Love and hugs to All
SharonBugs.
wrote:
"Oh that's right, you don't do anything anyway." I don't think she
was saying it to be mean. She honestly believed that we did
nothing. I was too stunned to say anything sensible in response.
Margaret
--------------------------------------------------------------------
OOoooh Margaret...that really STINGS!!! I can see how you're too
stunned to reply LOL! Because she sounded arrogant and
patronising!!!
If she had said, "you don't do lessons", that would have been
correct and fine with me. But because she said "you do nothing", to
me, that is a sweeping and patronising comment that literally means
we're lazy, dozing around and doing nothing.
To me, for her to pass such comments is being discriminating and
rude. Just because we don't do schedule lessons or workbooks,
doesn't mean my child is sitting at home being brain dead and not
learning.
Sorry Margaret, I would not have let her go lightly, whether she was
being naive or not. For her to have such wrong information and
opinions about unschoolers, this itself needs to be set right. It
wouldn't do anyone good for her to pass on such negative views of us
unschoolers.
It could be possible that she really didn't implied what she said,
of which even more reason for her to understand that she needs to re-
phrase her sentence.
Love and hugs to All
SharonBugs.
Sandra Dodd
-=-I also found some articles about whether or not children need to be
taught to tie shoes - whether it should it shouldn't be part of the
curriculum, anymore. The argument against it is that most of the young
kid shoes are made with velcro fasteners, these days. The argument for
it is that tying shoes is good small motor skills practice.-=-
I'm guessing the deeper argument for it is that there are manufacturers of practice shoes
who want to justify their existing stock, and continuing manufacture.
Math manipulatives exist because... because? When I was in 2nd grade we each had a
bundle of popsicle sticks in our desks. It was probably part of the origin of Thinking
Sticks. I used to make puzzles for Kirby by painting a picture on some popsicle sticks. I'd
put ten or twelve of them side by side and put masking tape on them and paint a simple
shape on the other side and take the tape off. A puzzle!
But even without dangerous wooden sticks, kids have fingers. If they only have ten, big
deal--there are twenty or thirty four other kids in the room. That's a lot of fingers. But
part of capitalism is that there needs to be money generated and spent and schools "NEED"
to draw and expend capital.
Sandra
taught to tie shoes - whether it should it shouldn't be part of the
curriculum, anymore. The argument against it is that most of the young
kid shoes are made with velcro fasteners, these days. The argument for
it is that tying shoes is good small motor skills practice.-=-
I'm guessing the deeper argument for it is that there are manufacturers of practice shoes
who want to justify their existing stock, and continuing manufacture.
Math manipulatives exist because... because? When I was in 2nd grade we each had a
bundle of popsicle sticks in our desks. It was probably part of the origin of Thinking
Sticks. I used to make puzzles for Kirby by painting a picture on some popsicle sticks. I'd
put ten or twelve of them side by side and put masking tape on them and paint a simple
shape on the other side and take the tape off. A puzzle!
But even without dangerous wooden sticks, kids have fingers. If they only have ten, big
deal--there are twenty or thirty four other kids in the room. That's a lot of fingers. But
part of capitalism is that there needs to be money generated and spent and schools "NEED"
to draw and expend capital.
Sandra
Sandra Dodd
My husband, Keith, has always been a knot-tying guy, since he was a
kid. He can make tents out of rope and anything, and did so once at
a company picnic. We got there and it started raining and he built a
kitchen out of stuff we had in the car--rope and a tarp--so that the
hot-dog cooking could proceed. He always has bundles of rope in his
truck, and some of these ropes he's had since before I met him 30
years ago. It's kind of amazing.
And his current artistic expression has to do with carving knotwork
into wood.
Keith's a very mathematically-minded guy who thinks in patterns, and
these knots come easy to him.
There are photos of some of his stuff here:
http://sandradodd.com/knotwork
That leads to another page on which there's a photo of a shield with
knotwork that Marty did (that second page turns to SCA names, and
Marty is Bardolf Gunwaldtsson, and that roundshield at the bottom
right with the yellow knotwork is Marty's. It's leaning against a
leather stool that Keith owns but didn't make. It was a gift years
ago from one of his squires.
http://sandradodd.com/guestfest/knotwork
And in that same medieval projects series, another friend of ours
taught how to make nets (for hair, but it's the same as for fishing)
and that's here:
http://sandradodd.com/guestfest/netting
Marty was at that one, too; he's in the video. So is Holly. So is
Sadie, another unschooler friend of ours. (They're in the knotwork
photos too, somewhere.)
So all these links and those sent to the list have become a new page
in the math section:
http://sandradodd.com/math/knots
and I'll link out from there to history and art. I'm still working
on it.
Sandra
kid. He can make tents out of rope and anything, and did so once at
a company picnic. We got there and it started raining and he built a
kitchen out of stuff we had in the car--rope and a tarp--so that the
hot-dog cooking could proceed. He always has bundles of rope in his
truck, and some of these ropes he's had since before I met him 30
years ago. It's kind of amazing.
And his current artistic expression has to do with carving knotwork
into wood.
Keith's a very mathematically-minded guy who thinks in patterns, and
these knots come easy to him.
There are photos of some of his stuff here:
http://sandradodd.com/knotwork
That leads to another page on which there's a photo of a shield with
knotwork that Marty did (that second page turns to SCA names, and
Marty is Bardolf Gunwaldtsson, and that roundshield at the bottom
right with the yellow knotwork is Marty's. It's leaning against a
leather stool that Keith owns but didn't make. It was a gift years
ago from one of his squires.
http://sandradodd.com/guestfest/knotwork
And in that same medieval projects series, another friend of ours
taught how to make nets (for hair, but it's the same as for fishing)
and that's here:
http://sandradodd.com/guestfest/netting
Marty was at that one, too; he's in the video. So is Holly. So is
Sadie, another unschooler friend of ours. (They're in the knotwork
photos too, somewhere.)
So all these links and those sent to the list have become a new page
in the math section:
http://sandradodd.com/math/knots
and I'll link out from there to history and art. I'm still working
on it.
Sandra
Sandra Dodd
-=-But because she said "you do nothing", -=-
Please don't use quotation marks loosely in these discussions. The
quote was "Oh that's right, you don't do anything anyway."
It's important to clarity and honesty.
-=-It could be possible that she really didn't implied what she said,
of which even more reason for her to understand that she needs to re-
phrase her sentence. -=-
It wasn't an unschooling meeting, it was general homeschoolers. She
doesn't need to rephrase anything.
Sometimes it's fun (and useful) to let an ignorant comment go by with
no more response than an exchange of knowing smiles.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Please don't use quotation marks loosely in these discussions. The
quote was "Oh that's right, you don't do anything anyway."
It's important to clarity and honesty.
-=-It could be possible that she really didn't implied what she said,
of which even more reason for her to understand that she needs to re-
phrase her sentence. -=-
It wasn't an unschooling meeting, it was general homeschoolers. She
doesn't need to rephrase anything.
Sometimes it's fun (and useful) to let an ignorant comment go by with
no more response than an exchange of knowing smiles.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]