Sandra Dodd

First I have side-comments on this, for the benefit of newer readers
to the list, mostly.

-=-Other friend comment about how "far
behind" they are. They are almost teenagers and they can't read, do
basic addition or subtraction, etc.-=-

"Almost teenagers" all at once? I had an 11 year old who couldn't
read. Was she "almost a teenager"?

When Kirby first went to take a math course, he could figure
percentages and do easy algebra in his head, but when he saw it on
paper (traditional vertical layouts for addition and subtraction;
equations) he didn't know what it was. So some people might have
said he couldn't "do" basic addition or subtraction.

But you now these kids. Can they do real-world addition and
subtraction?



I know that wasn't the main thrust of the question, but as I read it
I was a little worried about the thoughts of those who are here to
figure out what unschooling is and isn't.



I'll respond to the real issue in another post.

Sandra






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-The problem is...when people say stuff to her about it, she tells
them she unschools and basically that I am her mentor. I'm not. I
call her all the time and encourage her to do stuff with us and she
won't. I suggest different books, movies, etc that she could offer
the kids and she rejects them. I've offered to take her kids places
with us and something always comes up.
She realizes that she isn't doing what she wants to be doing. She
is a procrastinator and always plans to do it later.
A year or two ago I decided to not worry about it. They are her
kids and I would rather spend my time raising my kids than worrying
about hers, but she still tells people that she unschools like I
do. I don't want other people thinking I raise my kids the way she
does, and if possible I'd like her kids to get more out of life.
Any suggestions?-=-

My first thought was to ask you for her e-mail address, and I'll
write to her. I'm serious.

People who aren't unschooling but say they are could be a huge
liability to those who are conscientious and who have really "done
the work" (though it can be happy and easy work) to make the changes
necessary for unschooling to thrive.

Maybe you should write to her and tell her what you've told us here.
Or get someone to. You could at least ask her to stop using your
name if she's not going to be a sparkly-bright unschooler.

One solid case of child neglect called unschooling could bring down
the wrath of the media and the legal system.



But for her kids, she needs to change. There IS no "later" with
unschooling. But if her kids are still pre-teen, there could be a
renewed "now."

http://sandradodd.com/morning

Might that help her?



-=- I call her all the time and encourage her to do stuff with us and
she won't. I suggest different books, movies, etc that she could
offer the kids and she rejects them. I've offered to take her kids
places with us and something always comes up. -=-

Do her kids have MySpace or e-mail? Could you contact them
directly? Send them links to YouTube stuff, or direct invitations to
do something with your family.

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-she still tells people that she unschools like I do-=-

I've been helping (and trying to help) unschoolers for a dozen years
now (more, I guess) and twice a very sad thing has happened. A mom
called and asked if I could help her in court, in a divorce and
custody situation.

The answer was no.

I don't like saying "No, you're on your own," but the profoundest
truth is that every unschooler is on her own. It's homeschooling.
For someone to choose to unschool instead of using a curriculum, she
needs to REALLY get it. She needs to understand, herself, what it is
and why and how it works, and then she needs to create an environment
in which is IS working, for sure, for real, right in her house.

There's no signing up and then slacking off and then having "the
company" or "the tribe" (I don't like that term at all, but for those
who use and understand it, this will make sense) or "unschooling
experts" come and save her or say "Yes, she's really unschooling and
unschooling works."

Maybe it's more like AA. It works if you work it.
If someone is court ordered to stop drinking, or just wants to stop
drinking, saying "I'm an AA member" does not mean squat. There's
drinking (with or without AA attendance) and there's not drinking
(with or without AA).

And so someone can be on a list for two years or ten years and still
be a crappy unschooler (if an unschooler at all).
There have been cases of people being on this list or others like it
for years, literally. Two years, three. Four. And then they'll say
"I'm still thinking about it" or "We haven't really started
unschooling." And then there are others who claim they ARE
unschooling, but like your friend, they're just kinda basking in the
attention and not changing their lives.

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Robert Alcock

--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
> -=-The problem is...when people say stuff to her about it, she tells
> them she unschools and basically that I am her mentor. I'm not. I
> call her all the time and encourage her to do stuff with us and she
> won't. I suggest different books, movies, etc that she could offer
> the kids and she rejects them. I've offered to take her kids places
> with us and something always comes up.
> She realizes that she isn't doing what she wants to be doing. She
> is a procrastinator and always plans to do it later.
> A year or two ago I decided to not worry about it. They are her
> kids and I would rather spend my time raising my kids than worrying
> about hers, but she still tells people that she unschools like I
> do. I don't want other people thinking I raise my kids the way she
> does, and if possible I'd like her kids to get more out of life.
> Any suggestions?-=-
>
> My first thought was to ask you for her e-mail address, and I'll
> write to her. I'm serious.
>
> People who aren't unschooling but say they are could be a huge
> liability to those who are conscientious and who have really "done
> the work" (though it can be happy and easy work) to make the changes
> necessary for unschooling to thrive.
>
> Maybe you should write to her and tell her what you've told us here.
> Or get someone to. You could at least ask her to stop using your
> name if she's not going to be a sparkly-bright unschooler.
>
> One solid case of child neglect called unschooling could bring down
> the wrath of the media and the legal system.
>
>
>
> But for her kids, she needs to change. There IS no "later" with
> unschooling. But if her kids are still pre-teen, there could be a
> renewed "now."
>
> http://sandradodd.com/morning
>
> Might that help her?
>
>
>
> -=- I call her all the time and encourage her to do stuff with us and
> she won't. I suggest different books, movies, etc that she could
> offer the kids and she rejects them. I've offered to take her kids
> places with us and something always comes up. -=-
>
> Do her kids have MySpace or e-mail? Could you contact them
> directly? Send them links to YouTube stuff, or direct invitations to
> do something with your family.
>
> Sandra
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

I'm a newcomer to this list but have been mostly lurking on other
unschooling lists for two years.

The situation of Harmony's friend raises an important question for me.
Just how dedicated, in terms of time, do you need to be in order to do
unschooling?

My partner and I have been unschooling with daughters Sofia (5 this
month) and Nora (2 1/2) for two years since taking S out of preschool.
My partner works 1/2 time outside the home, and I work from home as a
freelancer (which varies from being pretty busy to not busy at all).
We are also in the slow process of building a house, which is a great
but time-consuming adventure for us.

Even though I am really passionate about unschooling (my partner less
so) I/we often feel that I/we really don't have enough time to spend
with the girls. Some days I have to tell them "listen, I really need
to work, you will have to look after yourselves for a while." (Today
was one of those days, by the way.) I'd like to say I'm always patient
with them on days like this, but the fact is I'm often feeling grumpy
and resentful, and I'm sure it shows. Sometimes I feel like I'm just
being selfish and neglectful by keeping them at home when I can't
dedicate enough time to them.

Hell, I've wanted to post questions or ask for support to unschooling
lists at least thirty times in the past two years and haven't had time
to properly formulate them.

I should say that I/we do many, many different things with the girls
(parks, museums, playing games, gardening, rollerblading/biking,
beach, walks in the woods, looking for creepy crawlies, etc.) so it's
not a case of my being slothful and uninterested like Harmony's
friend, but rather the sheer pressure of time and the feeling of not
having enough to spend with them.

This September, my partner wanted S to try the small local school in
the village near where we're building the house (previously she went
to preschool in the city). S was very reluctant to go but my partner
insisted, and I felt that, especially as this was an exceptionally
busy time for us, it wouldn't be such a terrible idea for her to
experience school for a while, mornings only. After struggling for a
week, she turned out to like it, and is actually keen to go most days.
This is very different from our experience with the city school, where
she had to be dragged out of the door.

In fact Nora, who has to do _everything_ her big sister does (anyone
else have a toddler like that?), is upset because she's too little to
go to school.

So, I'm now in the position of a passionate advocate of unschooling
with two daughters who actually (in one case, desperately) _want_ to
go to school.

I tell myself it's temporary, this is the best year for her to try
school, next year they start getting heavy with curricula and
homework, by then the house should be nearing completion and I can
devote more time to the girls. But realistically, I know I have other
things that I want to do in life (writing and ecological design are my
passions), not all of which can be done with the girls, so I question
whether, even in the hypothetical absence of the need to earn a
living, I would be happy as a full-time unschooling dad. Does this
mean I should just give up and let the school system take over?

By the way, for what it's worth, we live in Northern Spain, in an area
where there's not much support for unschooling, although we know a lot
more people who are into the idea now than we did two years ago, thank
heaven.

Robert

Pamela Sorooshian

On Nov 5, 2008, at 11:18 AM, Robert Alcock wrote:

> so I question
> whether, even in the hypothetical absence of the need to earn a
> living, I would be happy as a full-time unschooling dad. Does this
> mean I should just give up and let the school system take over?

I've always worked part time as a consultant, college teacher and in
other part-time jobs, and my husband full time. Plus, I've spent a LOT
of time on volunteer work - starting up organizations such as the
National Home Education Network, being on the board of our state
homeschooling organization, helping run our state conference, speaking
about homeschooling. I've also done a lot of volunteer work that
involved the kids - Girl Scout leader, 4-H project leader, and lots
and lots of homeschool events and activities.

I really think people who are high-energy multi-tasking types CAN
unschool successfully and do a whole lot of other stuff. Your work set-
up sounds really good. Is it demanding and tiring? Yes. Expect that. I
bet you wouldn't settle for a lifestyle that wasn't demanding and
tiring, anyway, <G> If it is making you resentful, though, then I'd
look for a solution to that. I know that when I was doing a lot of
consulting from home, the frustration for me was that I'd be focused
on something and be interrupted - over and over. I would really start
to feel I desperately wanted a few straight non-interrupted hours.
Perhaps you could find someone else to spend some time with the kids
every day or three days a week - maybe to take them on outings. That
would give you some hours of time that you could count on to devote to
work. I had this and it was really helpful - my mom was a high school
teacher and had a student who was looking for part-time work. She came
every day after school and played for a few hours with my then-3 year
old and little baby while I worked from home.

-pam

Sandra Dodd

-=-Just how dedicated, in terms of time, do you need to be in order
to do
unschooling?-=-

It depends how old the kids are, in part. And don't hesitate to
"double-dip." If you're building a house, are the girls around
seeing that as it happens, and asking questions, and maybe getting to
help or watch or make suggestions?

-=-I/we often feel that I/we really don't have enough time to spend
with the girls. Some days I have to tell them "listen, I really need
to work, you will have to look after yourselves for a while." -=-

One thing to compare it to is a school year. It might be different
where you are, but here, it's 180 days a year, six hours a day, at
most, for instruction. And of course it's less, because there's a
ton of administrative task and busy-work and repetition. So if it
would help you to keep track of the intense, real one-on-one time, I
bet you have more time with them than you think.

That said, though, putting them off when they have questions or need
help isn't good. Maybe you can spend a little more energy making
sure they have new and interesting things to look at or mess with or
hear or watch while you're busy.

-=-I'd like to say I'm always patient with them on days like this,
but the fact is I'm often feeling grumpy and resentful, and I'm sure
it shows. -=-

If they did go to school, how much time, money, energy and effort
would you spend getting them ready, delivering them, dealing with
teachers, finding supplies and uniforms and equipment they need,
replacing it when they lose it or use it up, picking them up,
bringing them home, getting them ready for the next day...

Compare to those things, not just to an ideal.

-=-In fact Nora, who has to do _everything_ her big sister does
(anyone else have a toddler like that?), is upset because she's too
little to go to school. -=-

Would it be easier for you to have both girls home so they could do
some things together?

-=-So, I'm now in the position of a passionate advocate of
unschooling with two daughters who actually (in one case,
desperately) _want_ to go to school. -=-

I doubt you're a passionate advocate of unschooling them against
their will. But it sounds like it wasn't her idea to go. At the age
of five, she's been to two schools (at least), and that's not much in
the direction of unschooling. If you do go back to unschooling,
there will be schooling ideas and possibly damage to get past.

-=-I question whether, even in the hypothetical absence of the need
to earn a living, I would be happy as a full-time unschooling dad.
Does this mean I should just give up and let the school system take
over?-=-

Those aren't the only two option.

I feel a little like a pharmacist making you a list of things to take
home and use, but these things will absolutely help, if you read them.

http://sandradodd.com/howto

That has a chart of how much time you need to spend with children.

http://sandradodd.com/strewing

Providing lots of fodder and inspiration for learning.

http://sandradodd.com/schoolchoice

Thoughts about compromising on school. What if they do want to go?

http://sandradodd.com/haveto

That's about "have to," a phrase you used at least three times in
your post. It will help to see a huge array of choices rather than
two extremes per situation.

Sandra












[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

m_aduhene

hi,
This thread really hit a chord in that unlike the op's friend I think
I may be "overdoing" the unschooling, in that I spend all day,every
day with my children (except the older one (dd7) who does visit with
friends and goes to clubs like brownies). I have two younger ones: a
(ds4) who at the moment is not keen to visit his friends alone and
would rather be home all day, altho he does enjoy himself when he does
come out and about, and a dd(2) who is just becoming independent and
will now happily go off with daddy, but won't go anywhere long with
anyone else. We go out and about together a lot some weeks, visit
friends, go to home ed. clubs etc. and some weeks we r home and
pottering and enjoying each other's company. I love being with them,
but now wonder is it ok for me to say put the TV on and watch
something i want to watch IN THE DAY or read a magazine or just do
something for me (not including housework :-) ). The reason for the
capitals is that I do feel that IN THE DAY are my "work hours" and
that I should be "on duty' in case "someone" happens to come round and
catch me "not doing my job". I can relax in the evenings and at
weekends and happily combine doing my own thing and being with them,
but I just have this hang up about what I perceive others percieve as
"my work time". I don't have family close by and I know I could ask
some of the older home ed. boys and girls to come over but I even feel
this could be seen as "cheating". Silly I know. I know I don't have
work hours but as I said I just wonder about other's perceptions of me
at home in my pjs watching a film "for me" at 12 in the afternoon on a
monday.

thanx in advance
blessings
michelle
(sorry about all the " "'s :-) )

Sandra Dodd

-=-I don't have family close by and I know I could ask
some of the older home ed. boys and girls to come over but I even feel
this could be seen as "cheating". Silly I know. I know I don't have
work hours but as I said I just wonder about other's perceptions of me
at home in my pjs watching a film "for me" at 12 in the afternoon on a
monday.-=-

If you can afford a mother's helper, an older kid to play with your
kids, it would be advantageous for all of them, and you too.

It's never occurred to me that others would think I was slacking
because it was noon on a Monday, because I do things with my kids all
kinds of times and places, and we don't have "days off." I think if
you really feel fearful or guilty, maybe chart some hours and remind
yourself.

-=-a dd(2) who is just becoming independent and will now happily go
off with daddy, but won't go anywhere long with anyone else. -=-

Maybe if you borrow an older child to play with your son, you could
spend more quiet time with the two year old. Maybe you could hold
her and rock her and watch your own movies and let her take a nap on
you. Two for one!



Sandra




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Kimberly Cochrane

Hi Robert,

I'm technically new too although I have been practicing and thinking
about something like unschooling for a long time.

I know that, like you, I am often too busy to do my ideal, too
divereted to devote everything that I wish I could.

But I do trust their unique paths and my heart and intentions.

I want to share with you that is hardest for me when I move into a
place of comparison. In my case, I usually do it to myself about my
past self. When my oldest was born I was single and I raised him and
intended to homeschool him sometimes with my mother and mostly alone
until he was 4. Then I got together with my today husband and step-
daughter who is the same age as my son and had two more children, now
2 and 1/2 and 6 months.

Sometimes, I get thinking that I SHOULD be able to give my son all
that he had before everyone else became, by my choice, a part of our
lives.

It feels the same as when, during times of stess I think I SHOULD
enroll in a curriculum or enroll them in school or preschool.

At bottom, for me the answer comes to knowing my heart. It is not so
cut and dry for me. I know I am making mistakes. I know I yell
sometimes out of my frustration of lack of space. I know I shine
sometimes because of my joyful heart or my classical education.

I know I am human. I know I trust my children. and everyone else when
I'm at my best.

It sounds to me like you're doing more than fine. You're thinking.
You love. You're open. You're trying.

I suggest that you trust yourself, your instincts and those of your
children and partner.

You're doing great because you're asking and you love!



> I'm a newcomer to this list but have been mostly lurking on other
> unschooling lists for two years.
>
> The situation of Harmony's friend raises an important question for
me.
> Just how dedicated, in terms of time, do you need to be in order to
do
> unschooling?
>
> My partner and I have been unschooling with daughters Sofia (5 this
> month) and Nora (2 1/2) for two years since taking S out of
preschool.
> My partner works 1/2 time outside the home, and I work from home as
a
> freelancer (which varies from being pretty busy to not busy at all).
> We are also in the slow process of building a house, which is a
great
> but time-consuming adventure for us.
>
> Even though I am really passionate about unschooling (my partner
less
> so) I/we often feel that I/we really don't have enough time to spend
> with the girls. Some days I have to tell them "listen, I really need
> to work, you will have to look after yourselves for a while." (Today
> was one of those days, by the way.) I'd like to say I'm always
patient
> with them on days like this, but the fact is I'm often feeling
grumpy
> and resentful, and I'm sure it shows. Sometimes I feel like I'm just
> being selfish and neglectful by keeping them at home when I can't
> dedicate enough time to them.
>
> Hell, I've wanted to post questions or ask for support to
unschooling
> lists at least thirty times in the past two years and haven't had
time
> to properly formulate them.
>
> I should say that I/we do many, many different things with the girls
> (parks, museums, playing games, gardening, rollerblading/biking,
> beach, walks in the woods, looking for creepy crawlies, etc.) so
it's
> not a case of my being slothful and uninterested like Harmony's
> friend, but rather the sheer pressure of time and the feeling of not
> having enough to spend with them.
>
> This September, my partner wanted S to try the small local school in
> the village near where we're building the house (previously she went
> to preschool in the city). S was very reluctant to go but my partner
> insisted, and I felt that, especially as this was an exceptionally
> busy time for us, it wouldn't be such a terrible idea for her to
> experience school for a while, mornings only. After struggling for a
> week, she turned out to like it, and is actually keen to go most
days.
> This is very different from our experience with the city school,
where
> she had to be dragged out of the door.
>
> In fact Nora, who has to do _everything_ her big sister does (anyone
> else have a toddler like that?), is upset because she's too little
to
> go to school.
>
> So, I'm now in the position of a passionate advocate of unschooling
> with two daughters who actually (in one case, desperately) _want_ to
> go to school.
>
> I tell myself it's temporary, this is the best year for her to try
> school, next year they start getting heavy with curricula and
> homework, by then the house should be nearing completion and I can
> devote more time to the girls. But realistically, I know I have
other
> things that I want to do in life (writing and ecological design are
my
> passions), not all of which can be done with the girls, so I
question
> whether, even in the hypothetical absence of the need to earn a
> living, I would be happy as a full-time unschooling dad. Does this
> mean I should just give up and let the school system take over?
>
> By the way, for what it's worth, we live in Northern Spain, in an
area
> where there's not much support for unschooling, although we know a
lot
> more people who are into the idea now than we did two years ago,
thank
> heaven.
>
> Robert
>

Robert Alcock

--- In [email protected], Pamela Sorooshian
<pamsoroosh@...> wrote:
>
>
> On Nov 5, 2008, at 11:18 AM, Robert Alcock wrote:
>
> If it is making you resentful, though, then I'd
> look for a solution to that. I know that when I was doing a lot of
> consulting from home, the frustration for me was that I'd be focused
> on something and be interrupted - over and over. I would really start
> to feel I desperately wanted a few straight non-interrupted hours.

I can really relate to this. Most days I am with them in the mornings,
and especially when I need to work, that can be really hard. In the
afternoons I can get more time to myself, except that if I'm already a
bit frazzled from the morning, I'm not working at full capacity. What
works best is when I take them out in the mornings, have fun and then
can settle down to work in the afternoons. Afernoons tend to
disappear, though, when my partner has to work late, we need to go
shopping, the house needs cleaning, etc. etc.


> Perhaps you could find someone else to spend some time with the kids
> every day or three days a week - maybe to take them on outings. That
> would give you some hours of time that you could count on to devote to
> work.

We tried this for a bit, but the person was useless.

Robert

Robert Alcock

--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
> -=-Just how dedicated, in terms of time, do you need to be in order
> to do
> unschooling?-=-
>
> It depends how old the kids are, in part. And don't hesitate to
> "double-dip." If you're building a house, are the girls around
> seeing that as it happens, and asking questions, and maybe getting to
> help or watch or make suggestions?

Of course! The house is a fantastic learning project for all of us,
not just the grownups. The girls often want to help, and I try and
find things that they can do which are actually helpful. (This is made
a lot easier by the fact that we're doing a lot of building with
natural materials.)

>
> -=-I/we often feel that I/we really don't have enough time to spend
> with the girls. Some days I have to tell them "listen, I really need
> to work, you will have to look after yourselves for a while." -=-

>
> That said, though, putting them off when they have questions or need
> help isn't good. Maybe you can spend a little more energy making
> sure they have new and interesting things to look at or mess with or
> hear or watch while you're busy.
Good idea. Will try it.

> -=-I'd like to say I'm always patient with them on days like this,
> but the fact is I'm often feeling grumpy and resentful, and I'm sure
> it shows. -=-
>
>
> -=-In fact Nora, who has to do _everything_ her big sister does
> (anyone else have a toddler like that?), is upset because she's too
> little to go to school. -=-
>
> Would it be easier for you to have both girls home so they could do
> some things together?
They are home together during the afternoons, at any rate. In fact
this week we are at home together all day due to a combination of factors.
>
> -=-So, I'm now in the position of a passionate advocate of
> unschooling with two daughters who actually (in one case,
> desperately) _want_ to go to school. -=-
>
> I doubt you're a passionate advocate of unschooling them against
> their will.
Of course not.

>But it sounds like it wasn't her idea to go. At the age
> of five, she's been to two schools (at least), and that's not much in
> the direction of unschooling.
Well, she's been to one school part-time for 3 months, another school
part-time for 2 months (the second at least partly voluntarily, in
that we made it clear that we wanted her to try it for a period and
after that she was free to stay or leave, and she decided to stay for
the time being). The rest of the last 2 years have been unschooling (I
don't count the first 3 because I hadn't really gotten the idea yet.)
That's 5 months of part-time school and 19 months of unschooling,
which I think is quite a bit in the direction of unschooling.

>
> -=-I question whether, even in the hypothetical absence of the need
> to earn a living, I would be happy as a full-time unschooling dad.
> Does this mean I should just give up and let the school system take
> over?-=-
>
> Those aren't the only two option.
>
> I feel a little like a pharmacist making you a list of things to take
> home and use, but these things will absolutely help, if you read them.
>
Thanks for the resources, I will have a look at them as I get time.

> http://sandradodd.com/howto
>
> That has a chart of how much time you need to spend with children.

OK, I get the gist as a first approximation, though I have a bit of a
problem with the article as a whole, including the chart, in as much
as it is implicitly, later explicitly, directed at "moms" and doesn't
mention that there may be another (or poss. an only) adult person in
the child's family, to wit, a dad.

Also, when you're asleep, is that "mom" ("dad") time or "kid" time,
since we're all in the same room / bed so they can easily have a
cuddle or a drink of water, etc. if they need one during the night?


>
> Sandra
>
>
Robert

Kimberly Cochrane

Michelle,

I guess this message hit a chord for me as well and it reminds me of
something I expereinced years ago when I was in school for a masters
in transpersonal psychology.

I was there in school even though I was a single mom and I had a lot
of guilt aboout taking my son away from the home and friends and his
grandma in order to fulfill my dreams. So I was going to class and
working at home doing intuitive phone consults, but only after he was
sleeping, and devoting every other second of my life to him. In
retrospect, to insure that he had all he needed, according to my
criteria, I was creating a dynamic that wasn't helping anyone.

Someone in a process class where we were sharing kept bringing up
a "Mary" image and long story short it ended up with me. What stayed
with me the most was someone saying "But how will he be able to live
his life against this view of perfection you're establishing. If you
never fail or even have darker emotions or time for yourself, how
will he?"

That did it for me. Thank goodness!

Now, everytime I find myself stuck in a battle with one of my 4 kids
or myself about taking time for me, I remind myself of that.

Sometimes, the joyful me that comes from 2 o'clcok PJs, is exactly
what we all need. (And if need be, I just don't answer the door!)

Trust yourself. And thanks for helping medo the same,
Kim








--- In [email protected], "m_aduhene" <anthony@...>
wrote:
>
> hi,
> This thread really hit a chord in that unlike the op's friend I
think
> I may be "overdoing" the unschooling, in that I spend all day,every
> day with my children (except the older one (dd7) who does visit with
> friends and goes to clubs like brownies). I have two younger ones:
a
> (ds4) who at the moment is not keen to visit his friends alone and
> would rather be home all day, altho he does enjoy himself when he
does
> come out and about, and a dd(2) who is just becoming independent and
> will now happily go off with daddy, but won't go anywhere long with
> anyone else. We go out and about together a lot some weeks, visit
> friends, go to home ed. clubs etc. and some weeks we r home and
> pottering and enjoying each other's company. I love being with
them,
> but now wonder is it ok for me to say put the TV on and watch
> something i want to watch IN THE DAY or read a magazine or just do
> something for me (not including housework :-) ). The reason for
the
> capitals is that I do feel that IN THE DAY are my "work hours" and
> that I should be "on duty' in case "someone" happens to come round
and
> catch me "not doing my job". I can relax in the evenings and at
> weekends and happily combine doing my own thing and being with them,
> but I just have this hang up about what I perceive others percieve
as
> "my work time". I don't have family close by and I know I could ask
> some of the older home ed. boys and girls to come over but I even
feel
> this could be seen as "cheating". Silly I know. I know I don't
have
> work hours but as I said I just wonder about other's perceptions of
me
> at home in my pjs watching a film "for me" at 12 in the afternoon
on a
> monday.
>
> thanx in advance
> blessings
> michelle
> (sorry about all the " "'s :-) )
>

emiLy Q.

Robert I just want to share that I am in a very similar situation. I have a
5 year old and an 18 month old and my husband and I both work from home. He
wakes up with the kids and is with them in the mornings, then works in the
afternoons while I am with the kids. That is the "plan." There are lots of
days I take the kids to town, or he needs more time to work outside during
the day when there is light, or I need extra time right after dinner to
work... It is always juggling and we don't spend much time all of us
together -- but in comparison to other families of course we DO.

I just try to really focus when I'm with my kids and try NOT to work when
I'm with them, as I rarely get much accomplished and we all end up crabby.
I have to remind myself of this almost daily, when I think I could just read
this email while we have the TV on... But my son wants to sit in my lap
instead, and email can be read (or mass deleted) later! Then, my husband
and I both try very hard to work efficiently when we have the chance. So
much computer time could be spent surfing, reading, (writing posts to this
list...) etc.

-emiLy

Joyce Fetteroll

On Nov 6, 2008, at 2:02 AM, Robert Alcock wrote:

> Afernoons tend to
> disappear, though, when my partner has to work late, we need to go
> shopping, the house needs cleaning, etc. etc.

Read Sandra's "Have To" page again:
> http://sandradodd.com/haveto
>
> That's about "have to," a phrase you used at least three times in
> your post. It will help to see a huge array of choices rather than
> two extremes per situation.

Letting go of "have to" and replacing it with "want to" opens up
possibilities. It returns control to you rather than handing control
over to some vague unseen power that's making you use up your time in
specific ways.

Shopping can turn into an adventure if you go to new stores, explore
new items, give the older one a list.

You can also think up ways to simplify so that you shop less (buying
and cooking in bulk for instance). Find people to trade kids with so
you can drop them off for an hour or two and you take their kids for
an hour or two.

> We tried this for a bit, but the person was useless.

I'm betting there's more than one person in the world! ;-) And one
person is no reflection on another unrelated person.

The list isn't a good place for why you can't do something. It's very
easy not to do something. "Can't" needs no support. If you do want to
try out an idea you can ask for additional ideas on how to make it work.

Joyce

Sandra Dodd

-=-> Perhaps you could find someone else to spend some time with the
kids
> every day or three days a week - maybe to take them on outings. That
> would give you some hours of time that you could count on to
devote to
> work.-=-

We tried this for a bit, but the person was useless.

It might be worth another try or two, and maybe having more than one
person. A teen perhaps, or a young mom whose child or children
might have fun with yours on an outing you could finance and she
could organize. A concept isn't wrong just because one person
didn't get it or wasn't a good match.



-=-> Would it be easier for you to have both girls home so they could
do some things together? They are home together during the
afternoons, at any rate. In fact this week we are at home together
all day due to a combination of factors.-=-

School has been known for creating distance between people--between
children and parents, and between siblings.



-=-Also, when you're asleep, is that "mom" ("dad") time or "kid"
time, since we're all in the same room / bed so they can easily have
a cuddle or a drink of water, etc. if they need one during the night?-=-

I never advocated keeping the kids awake for 23 hours. Some parents
want eight hours of child-free sleep at night. Other parents make
themselves available, even in the same room or the same bed. The
idea isn't to count hours. The idea is to be aware that this kind of
parenting can't be done, with small children, in just four or ten
hours a day.

-=-I have a bit of a problem with the article as a whole, including
the chart, in as much as it is implicitly, later explicitly, directed
at "moms" and doesn't mention that there may be another (or poss. an
only) adult person in the child's family, to wit, a dad.-=-

The webzine for which it was written had one male author and all the
rest were female. It had very few male subscribers. This list has
over 1500 members. Maybe twenty of those are male. It was a little
essay designed to make a point. It's one small page of over a
thousand on the site.

Here are some things written by dads, if that will make you feel more
comfortable.

http://sandradodd.com/dads



Sandra






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Sandra Dodd

Joyce wrote:
-=-The list isn't a good place for why you can't do something. It's very
easy not to do something. "Can't" needs no support.-=-

"Can't" gets lots of support, though, and sometime people like to
hear "Don't worry. There's really nothing you can do. You're a
great mom/dad and your children are lucky to have you." That does
support "can't" and "have to" and "later."

It doesn't always support unschooling.

Here's my support page:

http://sandradodd.com/support



Sandra

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