bad role models
Robin
I am new to unschooling and I have questions about some tricky stuff.
Like, how do I trust my kids to eat a healthy diet when I don't myself!
When I joined this family, the oldest had hypoglycemic symptoms. I have
tried to show him that eating less refined flour and sugar in his diet
frees him from this metabolic condition, and he has proved this to
himself, but it's hard not to want what all his friends, family (and
everyone on TV) is eating. Since we've been homschooling his activity
level has dropped and he is becoming pudgy--like everyone in his family
(including me)!
I am concerned about diabetes.
Recently we switched to a "meat and vegetables" diet. We switched to
juice instead of drinks with added sugar. When we bought some sugar
drinks the oldest said he no longer liked them because we've been
drinking juice and they no longer tasted good to him. I believe this
would happen with most of the less healthy foods if he ever experienced
a diet full of less processed meat, vegetables and fruits that had real
flavor (good, fresh, flavorful, fruits and vegetables and meats).
He's never had this experience at home OR when he was eating two meals a
day at public school. He's used to a high-carb, low protein and low
vegetable diet. We tend to eat like typical Americans: grab "convenient"
packaged meals, chips, soda, etc. where most of the flavor was made in a
food lab. Lots of pasta and potatoes and breads. And so does everyone
else in the kids' extended family.
How can I trust the kids when I don't trust myself?
Any thoughts would be welcome,
Robin
Like, how do I trust my kids to eat a healthy diet when I don't myself!
When I joined this family, the oldest had hypoglycemic symptoms. I have
tried to show him that eating less refined flour and sugar in his diet
frees him from this metabolic condition, and he has proved this to
himself, but it's hard not to want what all his friends, family (and
everyone on TV) is eating. Since we've been homschooling his activity
level has dropped and he is becoming pudgy--like everyone in his family
(including me)!
I am concerned about diabetes.
Recently we switched to a "meat and vegetables" diet. We switched to
juice instead of drinks with added sugar. When we bought some sugar
drinks the oldest said he no longer liked them because we've been
drinking juice and they no longer tasted good to him. I believe this
would happen with most of the less healthy foods if he ever experienced
a diet full of less processed meat, vegetables and fruits that had real
flavor (good, fresh, flavorful, fruits and vegetables and meats).
He's never had this experience at home OR when he was eating two meals a
day at public school. He's used to a high-carb, low protein and low
vegetable diet. We tend to eat like typical Americans: grab "convenient"
packaged meals, chips, soda, etc. where most of the flavor was made in a
food lab. Lots of pasta and potatoes and breads. And so does everyone
else in the kids' extended family.
How can I trust the kids when I don't trust myself?
Any thoughts would be welcome,
Robin
Sandra Dodd
-=-Like, how do I trust my kids to eat a healthy diet when I don't
myself!-=-
Did anyone say "trust your kids to eat a healthy diet"? I want to
see where the first step is on this path you've envisioned before I
walk it.
Without choices, no one can make a choice. Have you thought about
why you make the food choices you make? Do you think your kids will
have those same factors in their life? Can you figure out how to
make sure they DO have whatever reactionary thoughts or neediness you
have that influences your food choices?
Here's me: I love chocolate and I can point to MANY things in my
life that gave me the feeling that when I was grown I would eat
chocolate if I wanted to. I can go a long time without any, but
sometimes I binge. Not one of my children has ever, once binged on
chocolate. Something's different.
-=--=-Like, how do I trust my kids to eat a healthy diet when I don't
myself!-=--=-
When you ask a question, consider an alternative. Not "the
alternative," because there's more than one, but for instance if you
say "but what if we homeschool and my child is still unhappy?" I'd
want to say "If you leave him in school will she be happy?"
We have no guarantees, but we can help you see alternatives from
which choices can be made.
So...
-=-Like, how do I trust my kids to eat a healthy diet when I don't
myself!-=-
If you choose not to trust them (not to give them choices), how will
they eat a healthy diet when you don't yourself?
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
myself!-=-
Did anyone say "trust your kids to eat a healthy diet"? I want to
see where the first step is on this path you've envisioned before I
walk it.
Without choices, no one can make a choice. Have you thought about
why you make the food choices you make? Do you think your kids will
have those same factors in their life? Can you figure out how to
make sure they DO have whatever reactionary thoughts or neediness you
have that influences your food choices?
Here's me: I love chocolate and I can point to MANY things in my
life that gave me the feeling that when I was grown I would eat
chocolate if I wanted to. I can go a long time without any, but
sometimes I binge. Not one of my children has ever, once binged on
chocolate. Something's different.
-=--=-Like, how do I trust my kids to eat a healthy diet when I don't
myself!-=--=-
When you ask a question, consider an alternative. Not "the
alternative," because there's more than one, but for instance if you
say "but what if we homeschool and my child is still unhappy?" I'd
want to say "If you leave him in school will she be happy?"
We have no guarantees, but we can help you see alternatives from
which choices can be made.
So...
-=-Like, how do I trust my kids to eat a healthy diet when I don't
myself!-=-
If you choose not to trust them (not to give them choices), how will
they eat a healthy diet when you don't yourself?
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-When I joined this family, the oldest had hypoglycemic symptoms. I
have
tried to show him that eating less refined flour and sugar in his diet
frees him from this metabolic condition, and he has proved this to
himself, but it's hard not to want what all his friends, family (and
everyone on TV) is eating.-=-
Hypoglycemia needs protein. Instead of showing him what he should
avoid, it would be happier, more positive and more honest to show him
what he does need to eat--what will help. Make a list, or always
bring a couple of things when you shop. String cheese, nuts, peanut
butter (maybe make peanut butter balls with coconut)...
Well here:
http://sandradodd.com/food
It will have answers to lots of your questions and there's a list of
protein ideas for picky kids.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
have
tried to show him that eating less refined flour and sugar in his diet
frees him from this metabolic condition, and he has proved this to
himself, but it's hard not to want what all his friends, family (and
everyone on TV) is eating.-=-
Hypoglycemia needs protein. Instead of showing him what he should
avoid, it would be happier, more positive and more honest to show him
what he does need to eat--what will help. Make a list, or always
bring a couple of things when you shop. String cheese, nuts, peanut
butter (maybe make peanut butter balls with coconut)...
Well here:
http://sandradodd.com/food
It will have answers to lots of your questions and there's a list of
protein ideas for picky kids.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
marji
At 11:38 7/5/2008, you wrote:
not willing to do yourself. I don't know the ages that we're talking
about, but to me ~ strictly in my opinion ~ it seems disingenuous to
ask kids to adhere to dietary practices that you're not willing to
adhere to for yourself. Even if you were following a better diet,
really, the best I think you can do is model for them. You can't
*make* them eat anything (you can try, but that kind of thing
generally leads to way more problems than it solves).
Were I in this situation, I would present my case this way: I would
sit down with them and announce that *I* want to change *my* dietary
habits. I'd tell precisely why, and discuss my concerns about MY
diet. I would ask for support and see if anyone was interested in
buddying up with me for this adventure. If I had takers, I would, if
they were into it, embark on it as an adventure, researching
together, coming up with interesting recipes, cooking together *to
the extent they were interested*. I would do my level best to make
this eating adventure fun and wonderful for *me* and be open to
whoever would like to join me, either full time or part time. No
shame, no blame, no pressure. Just love and support and joy. Food,
like life, should be joyful ~ first and foremost!
I hope this is helpful.
~Marji
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG.
Version: 8.0.136 / Virus Database: 270.4.5/1536 - Release Date: 7/5/2008 10:15 AM
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>How can I trust the kids when I don't trust myself? (vis-a-vis poorHi, Robin. I don't think you can ask your kids to do something you're
>food choices)
not willing to do yourself. I don't know the ages that we're talking
about, but to me ~ strictly in my opinion ~ it seems disingenuous to
ask kids to adhere to dietary practices that you're not willing to
adhere to for yourself. Even if you were following a better diet,
really, the best I think you can do is model for them. You can't
*make* them eat anything (you can try, but that kind of thing
generally leads to way more problems than it solves).
Were I in this situation, I would present my case this way: I would
sit down with them and announce that *I* want to change *my* dietary
habits. I'd tell precisely why, and discuss my concerns about MY
diet. I would ask for support and see if anyone was interested in
buddying up with me for this adventure. If I had takers, I would, if
they were into it, embark on it as an adventure, researching
together, coming up with interesting recipes, cooking together *to
the extent they were interested*. I would do my level best to make
this eating adventure fun and wonderful for *me* and be open to
whoever would like to join me, either full time or part time. No
shame, no blame, no pressure. Just love and support and joy. Food,
like life, should be joyful ~ first and foremost!
I hope this is helpful.
~Marji
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG.
Version: 8.0.136 / Virus Database: 270.4.5/1536 - Release Date: 7/5/2008 10:15 AM
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
MLewis
I've noticed that if my children are hungry and I haven't prepared
something for them to eat, they eat whatever is handy in the
kitchen. If I buy a lot of bread and marshmallows and chips, and not
much in the way of veggies, then they won't be eating much in the way
of veggies. I know that sounds simple, but I sometimes have to
remind myself! When I grocery shop, I probably buy about 80% produce
and 20% other stuff. And I try to buy veggies that are grabbers:
cucumbers, red or orange bell peppers, carrots, fruit, nuts. My 17yo
just told me I need carrots actually. He also lets me know if I need
to buy sandwich meat since I don't tend to eat it myself!LOL They're
so happy and gracious if I ask if they'd like me to make something
for them: a sandwich or tortilla wrap, which I put lots of extras in
like romaine and cucumber, baby spinach, etc.
I don't think you need to "launch" a new eating program up front, but
try incorporating better choices in general. Make good nutritious
meals, and I bet they'll eat it up! caviat: my son has sensory
stuff, so he only wears clothes with certain feels and he eats
according to texture a lot. So just any nutritious meal ain't gonna
do it!LOL But I know what he does and doesn't like, so I make things
for him without onions or mushrooms. He likes cooked broccoli but
not raw. He often doesn't eat the main dish that we're having, but
he'll eat the rice, or the broccoli, or the green beans (if they're
cooked to the right texture)...
If figuring out what to buy and make overwhelms you, you might
consider finding a place for food support. Look for recipe groups
online, or start googling!
Mary
In [email protected], marji <marji@...> wrote:
something for them to eat, they eat whatever is handy in the
kitchen. If I buy a lot of bread and marshmallows and chips, and not
much in the way of veggies, then they won't be eating much in the way
of veggies. I know that sounds simple, but I sometimes have to
remind myself! When I grocery shop, I probably buy about 80% produce
and 20% other stuff. And I try to buy veggies that are grabbers:
cucumbers, red or orange bell peppers, carrots, fruit, nuts. My 17yo
just told me I need carrots actually. He also lets me know if I need
to buy sandwich meat since I don't tend to eat it myself!LOL They're
so happy and gracious if I ask if they'd like me to make something
for them: a sandwich or tortilla wrap, which I put lots of extras in
like romaine and cucumber, baby spinach, etc.
I don't think you need to "launch" a new eating program up front, but
try incorporating better choices in general. Make good nutritious
meals, and I bet they'll eat it up! caviat: my son has sensory
stuff, so he only wears clothes with certain feels and he eats
according to texture a lot. So just any nutritious meal ain't gonna
do it!LOL But I know what he does and doesn't like, so I make things
for him without onions or mushrooms. He likes cooked broccoli but
not raw. He often doesn't eat the main dish that we're having, but
he'll eat the rice, or the broccoli, or the green beans (if they're
cooked to the right texture)...
If figuring out what to buy and make overwhelms you, you might
consider finding a place for food support. Look for recipe groups
online, or start googling!
Mary
In [email protected], marji <marji@...> wrote:
>poor
> At 11:38 7/5/2008, you wrote:
>
> >How can I trust the kids when I don't trust myself? (vis-a-vis
> >food choices)you're
>
> Hi, Robin. I don't think you can ask your kids to do something
> not willing to do yourself. I don't know the ages that we'retalking
> about, but to me ~ strictly in my opinion ~ it seems disingenuousto
> ask kids to adhere to dietary practices that you're not willing towould
> adhere to for yourself. Even if you were following a better diet,
> really, the best I think you can do is model for them. You can't
> *make* them eat anything (you can try, but that kind of thing
> generally leads to way more problems than it solves).
>
> Were I in this situation, I would present my case this way: I
> sit down with them and announce that *I* want to change *my*dietary
> habits. I'd tell precisely why, and discuss my concerns about MYif
> diet. I would ask for support and see if anyone was interested in
> buddying up with me for this adventure. If I had takers, I would,
> they were into it, embark on it as an adventure, researchingFood,
> together, coming up with interesting recipes, cooking together *to
> the extent they were interested*. I would do my level best to make
> this eating adventure fun and wonderful for *me* and be open to
> whoever would like to join me, either full time or part time. No
> shame, no blame, no pressure. Just love and support and joy.
> like life, should be joyful ~ first and foremost!7/5/2008 10:15 AM
>
> I hope this is helpful.
>
> ~Marji
>
>
>
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG.
> Version: 8.0.136 / Virus Database: 270.4.5/1536 - Release Date:
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Sandra Dodd
-=-Make good nutritious
meals, and I bet they'll eat it up! caviat: my son has sensory
stuff, so he only wears clothes with certain feels and he eats
according to texture a lot. So just any nutritious meal ain't gonna
do it!-=-
Sometimes we make tuna salad or egg salad, and roll little two-bite-
size (give or take) amounts in lettuce leaves, and that's fun. That
reminds me I should go and so something like that right now!
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
meals, and I bet they'll eat it up! caviat: my son has sensory
stuff, so he only wears clothes with certain feels and he eats
according to texture a lot. So just any nutritious meal ain't gonna
do it!-=-
Sometimes we make tuna salad or egg salad, and roll little two-bite-
size (give or take) amounts in lettuce leaves, and that's fun. That
reminds me I should go and so something like that right now!
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
cathyandgarth
--- In [email protected], Robin <GaiaAlive@...> wrote:
When I read this sentence all I could hear was Shaggy's voice ...
But seriously, I do think that kids' diets will reflect our diets to
some extent. I do notice that my kids' tend to eat a more diverse
diet when I am tending to eat a more diverse diet.
However, they also have their own likes that have nothing to do with
mine nor my DH's diet. I never eat marshmellows for breakfast and I
can't stand boiled eggs -- my 3 year old regularly has marshmellows
and sliced boiled egg slices for breakfast (I shudder as I write that
down). I don't really like popsicles, my kids love them. I love
scrambled eggs with loads of stuff mixed in, none of my kids can
stand their eggs that way (cheese maybe, dd will do ham sometimes,
maybe).
I think that an important part of unschooling for me, so far, has
been has been learning to give myself the freedom to trust _myself_
around issues like food, tv, and computer. While I easily saw the
advantage of letting go and really trusting my children, that process
really served as a magnifying glass on my own personal/self trust
issues. It was and is such a great opportunity for me to continue my
own growth and developement as a human being. And, just as you can
imagine how empowering it is for the kids in our lives to make free
choices, imagine how empowering it will be for you to give up your
judgements and critical views of your own diet?
For me, a great weight lifted off my shoulders when I (sincerely and
honestly) stopped critically judging eveything that I ate: Oh, I ate
healthy today, or I shouldn't have had that second bowl of icecream,
or I wish I ate more green vegies they are so healthy. I am not sure
if I eat more or less *healthy* than I did before, but I feel great
and I feel healthy and I really just enjoy my food. I haven't done
this *for* my kids, but in writing this down I can really see how
shifting my interactions with and internal conversations about food
is super positive for them. (I found Byron Katie's The Work
thework.com incredibly helpful in jumpstarting and solidifying this
process.)
Cathy
> Like, how do I trust my kids to eat a healthy diet when I don'tmyself!
>Hi Robin,
When I read this sentence all I could hear was Shaggy's voice ...
But seriously, I do think that kids' diets will reflect our diets to
some extent. I do notice that my kids' tend to eat a more diverse
diet when I am tending to eat a more diverse diet.
However, they also have their own likes that have nothing to do with
mine nor my DH's diet. I never eat marshmellows for breakfast and I
can't stand boiled eggs -- my 3 year old regularly has marshmellows
and sliced boiled egg slices for breakfast (I shudder as I write that
down). I don't really like popsicles, my kids love them. I love
scrambled eggs with loads of stuff mixed in, none of my kids can
stand their eggs that way (cheese maybe, dd will do ham sometimes,
maybe).
I think that an important part of unschooling for me, so far, has
been has been learning to give myself the freedom to trust _myself_
around issues like food, tv, and computer. While I easily saw the
advantage of letting go and really trusting my children, that process
really served as a magnifying glass on my own personal/self trust
issues. It was and is such a great opportunity for me to continue my
own growth and developement as a human being. And, just as you can
imagine how empowering it is for the kids in our lives to make free
choices, imagine how empowering it will be for you to give up your
judgements and critical views of your own diet?
For me, a great weight lifted off my shoulders when I (sincerely and
honestly) stopped critically judging eveything that I ate: Oh, I ate
healthy today, or I shouldn't have had that second bowl of icecream,
or I wish I ate more green vegies they are so healthy. I am not sure
if I eat more or less *healthy* than I did before, but I feel great
and I feel healthy and I really just enjoy my food. I haven't done
this *for* my kids, but in writing this down I can really see how
shifting my interactions with and internal conversations about food
is super positive for them. (I found Byron Katie's The Work
thework.com incredibly helpful in jumpstarting and solidifying this
process.)
Cathy
Robin
Sandra Dodd wrote:
<snip>
side of this discussion...Talk about food hang-ups!
On the one hand, we do teach our kids what to eat (parents have complete
control over what a 2-year-old has access to or not). OTOH, I can see
that too limited an offering of choices, especially with older kids,
limits their ability to figure out how to make choices that work for
them. This makes sense to me.
I'm just a newbie and trying to figure out where the best balance is. I
don't think anyone hands whiskey to a 2-year-old! But the kids hate it
when I take all the "fun" foods out of the house, too.
<snip>
given me much to think about. Thanks!
hard for me to not eat doughnuts, pasta, ice cream, etc. when everyone
around me is. (There's spouse issues in here, too!) But I don't like the
effect it has on my body!
I can see I've got a lot more thinking to do on this...
Robin
<snip>
> Without choices, no one can make a choice. Have you thought aboutI'm pretty sure I have made sure (mea culpa!) I so hear my mom in my
> why you make the food choices you make? Do you think your kids will
> have those same factors in their life? Can you figure out how to
> make sure they DO have whatever reactionary thoughts or neediness you
> have that influences your food choices?
side of this discussion...Talk about food hang-ups!
On the one hand, we do teach our kids what to eat (parents have complete
control over what a 2-year-old has access to or not). OTOH, I can see
that too limited an offering of choices, especially with older kids,
limits their ability to figure out how to make choices that work for
them. This makes sense to me.
I'm just a newbie and trying to figure out where the best balance is. I
don't think anyone hands whiskey to a 2-year-old! But the kids hate it
when I take all the "fun" foods out of the house, too.
<snip>
> We have no guarantees, but we can help you see alternatives fromI think that's what I'm hoping for. And the comments I've received have
> which choices can be made.
given me much to think about. Thanks!
>I'd like us to eat more healthily together. I'm a carb addict and its
> So...
> -=-Like, how do I trust my kids to eat a healthy diet when I don't
> myself!-=-
>
> If you choose not to trust them (not to give them choices), how will
> they eat a healthy diet when you don't yourself?
hard for me to not eat doughnuts, pasta, ice cream, etc. when everyone
around me is. (There's spouse issues in here, too!) But I don't like the
effect it has on my body!
I can see I've got a lot more thinking to do on this...
Robin
>
> Sandra
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
Robin
marji wrote:
understand what I'm trying to do and why I want to do it--for myself.
I could also ask for their help in avoiding the foods I tend to binge
on--it's hard for me to not eat them when other's are eating them around
me. Maybe we could talk about the different foods we like and tend to
have in the house and make choices (like pasta and doughnuts get me, but
hot cheetos don't. Maybe the kids would be willing to not eat doughnuts
in front of me if they could eat hot cheetos whenever they wanted...)
This helps, thanks!
Robin
> At 11:38 7/5/2008, you wrote:I want to eat more healthily, too!
>
>> How can I trust the kids when I don't trust myself? (vis-a-vis poor
>> food choices)
>
> Hi, Robin. I don't think you can ask your kids to do something you're
> not willing to do yourself. I don't know the ages that we're talking
> about, but to me ~ strictly in my opinion ~ it seems disingenuous to
> ask kids to adhere to dietary practices that you're not willing to
> adhere to for yourself. Even if you were following a better diet,
> really, the best I think you can do is model for them. You can'tYeah, I know...
> *make* them eat anything (you can try, but that kind of thing
> generally leads to way more problems than it solves).
>I like this idea. Whether they agree to join me or not, at least they'd
> Were I in this situation, I would present my case this way: I would
> sit down with them and announce that *I* want to change *my* dietary
> habits. I'd tell precisely why, and discuss my concerns about MY
> diet. I would ask for support and see if anyone was interested in
> buddying up with me for this adventure. If I had takers, I would, if
understand what I'm trying to do and why I want to do it--for myself.
I could also ask for their help in avoiding the foods I tend to binge
on--it's hard for me to not eat them when other's are eating them around
me. Maybe we could talk about the different foods we like and tend to
have in the house and make choices (like pasta and doughnuts get me, but
hot cheetos don't. Maybe the kids would be willing to not eat doughnuts
in front of me if they could eat hot cheetos whenever they wanted...)
This helps, thanks!
Robin
> they were into it, embark on it as an adventure, researching
> together, coming up with interesting recipes, cooking together *to
> the extent they were interested*. I would do my level best to make
> this eating adventure fun and wonderful for *me* and be open to
> whoever would like to join me, either full time or part time. No
> shame, no blame, no pressure. Just love and support and joy. Food,
> like life, should be joyful ~ first and foremost!
>
> I hope this is helpful.
>
> ~Marji
>
>
>
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG.
> Version: 8.0.136 / Virus Database: 270.4.5/1536 - Release Date: 7/5/2008 10:15 AM
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
Robin
MLewis wrote:
happily--but they'd choose chips over fruit if we had the chips in the
house.
Robin
> I've noticed that if my children are hungry and I haven't preparedThis does work for us. When we have lots of fruit they eat it
> something for them to eat, they eat whatever is handy in the
> kitchen. If I buy a lot of bread and marshmallows and chips, and not
> much in the way of veggies, then they won't be eating much in the way
> of veggies. I know that sounds simple, but I sometimes have to
> remind myself! When I grocery shop, I probably buy about 80% produce
> and 20% other stuff. And I try to buy veggies that are grabbers:
> cucumbers, red or orange bell peppers, carrots, fruit, nuts. My 17yo
happily--but they'd choose chips over fruit if we had the chips in the
house.
Robin
Robin
Sandra Dodd wrote:
and had special dispensation to eat them whenever he needed (tho'
sometimes he had to do it in the nurse's office, I think). He knows that
when he eats more protein his body works better, but eating candy all
day also works for hypoglycemics. If you just eat sugar every couple
hours (or more) you never "crash", but it makes the hypoglycemia more
brittle (you have to eat sugar more and more often or you crash).
Eventually, diabetes is a real possibility. Kids as young as 7 are
getting "adult onset" diabetes these days (Type II).
I think some of my "issues" are also step-parent stuff. I wasn't there
when he was a toddler and had no input to the diet he got used to (or
the girls either for that matter--the youngest was about to turn 3 when
I joined the family). My significant other would tend to snack all
day--always with a soda open--only eating a meal at dinner, if anyone
feels like cooking one except for negotiations between us. This seems
horribly unhealthy to me and I don't like how I feel when I eat that
way. The kids, of course, want to live off soda and chips, mainly, with
maybe some pastry and candy thrown in for good measure <grin>. They are
used to eating this way and their mom eats this way (she rarely eats
protein) and I'm just a big meany for trying to give them a more healthy
option.
When we substituted fruit juice for sugary drinks the boy (13) actually
didn't like the drinks he'd liked before. He said they tasted funny now
that he was used to the juice. I know from personal experience that the
same thing happens when I just eat fresh veggies and meats (avoiding
processed and convenient foods that are mostly flavored by stuff they
make in labs). But it doesn't work (at least for me) if I'm also eating
processed foods at the same time.
I feel like the kids haven't had the option to find this out for
themselves because the foods they have not been exposed to healthier
options. And when I try to give them that option I'm just an odd-ball!
Thanks!
Robin
> -=-When I joined this family, the oldest had hypoglycemic symptoms. IWe've done this. He even took peanuts to school (before we homeschooled)
> have
> tried to show him that eating less refined flour and sugar in his diet
> frees him from this metabolic condition, and he has proved this to
> himself, but it's hard not to want what all his friends, family (and
> everyone on TV) is eating.-=-
>
> Hypoglycemia needs protein. Instead of showing him what he should
> avoid, it would be happier, more positive and more honest to show him
> what he does need to eat--what will help. Make a list, or always
> bring a couple of things when you shop. String cheese, nuts, peanut
> butter (maybe make peanut butter balls with coconut)...
and had special dispensation to eat them whenever he needed (tho'
sometimes he had to do it in the nurse's office, I think). He knows that
when he eats more protein his body works better, but eating candy all
day also works for hypoglycemics. If you just eat sugar every couple
hours (or more) you never "crash", but it makes the hypoglycemia more
brittle (you have to eat sugar more and more often or you crash).
Eventually, diabetes is a real possibility. Kids as young as 7 are
getting "adult onset" diabetes these days (Type II).
I think some of my "issues" are also step-parent stuff. I wasn't there
when he was a toddler and had no input to the diet he got used to (or
the girls either for that matter--the youngest was about to turn 3 when
I joined the family). My significant other would tend to snack all
day--always with a soda open--only eating a meal at dinner, if anyone
feels like cooking one except for negotiations between us. This seems
horribly unhealthy to me and I don't like how I feel when I eat that
way. The kids, of course, want to live off soda and chips, mainly, with
maybe some pastry and candy thrown in for good measure <grin>. They are
used to eating this way and their mom eats this way (she rarely eats
protein) and I'm just a big meany for trying to give them a more healthy
option.
When we substituted fruit juice for sugary drinks the boy (13) actually
didn't like the drinks he'd liked before. He said they tasted funny now
that he was used to the juice. I know from personal experience that the
same thing happens when I just eat fresh veggies and meats (avoiding
processed and convenient foods that are mostly flavored by stuff they
make in labs). But it doesn't work (at least for me) if I'm also eating
processed foods at the same time.
I feel like the kids haven't had the option to find this out for
themselves because the foods they have not been exposed to healthier
options. And when I try to give them that option I'm just an odd-ball!
Thanks!
Robin
>
>
>
>
>
> Well here:
>
> http://sandradodd.com/food
>
>
>
> It will have answers to lots of your questions and there's a list of
> protein ideas for picky kids.
>
>
>
> Sandra
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
Sandra Dodd
-=-I'm pretty sure I have made sure (mea culpa!) I so hear my mom in my
side of this discussion...Talk about food hang-ups!-=-
Here's a tool for you. We just made a list lately of ways to screw
up unschooling.
http://sandradodd.com/screwitup
We could have made a list of ways to screw up a marriage, but we
don't need to. That list will work for many purposes.
So maybe look at that link and imagine it a list of ways to give kids
food issues. Then you'll have a list in your head of what not to do!
-=-On the one hand, we do teach our kids what to eat -=-
Do you? I advise against that.
-=-(parents have complete control over what a 2-year-old has access
to or not)-=-
Do you really? TRULY? I seriously advise against over-controlling
what a two year old eats too, or can't eat.
Years ago, mid-70's, I was babysitting my all-natural niece, and we
lost her. She was in the garden, between thick rows, with an open
sack of sugar, shovelling it in with both hands. She was five or so.
If a child is allowed to eat a sugar packet at a restaurant, or to
play with (and maybe taste or eat) sugar cubes, or allowed to have
more sugar on oatmeal or cereal if she wants it, instead of being
told "no" or "you have enough" or "sugar is bad," then I bet she will
never, EVER squat in the field over a four lb. bag of sugar hoping to
load up before she's caught.
-=-OTOH, I can see that too limited an offering of choices,
especially with older kids, limits their ability to figure out how to
make choices that work for them. This makes sense to me.-=-
If they've made choices since they were two, since they were babies,
there is no "especially with older kids" time coming.
If babies can nurse or not when they want to, if they can reach for
food or turn their head to refuse it, that's the start of their
choicemaking and of parents' trust. It's no good to control or
force or forbid and then at some point decide they're old enough to
decide.
-=-I don't think anyone hands whiskey to a 2-year-old! -=-
If you see only two choices (full control or giving them shots of
whiskey), your world is too small.
http://sandradodd.com/balance
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
side of this discussion...Talk about food hang-ups!-=-
Here's a tool for you. We just made a list lately of ways to screw
up unschooling.
http://sandradodd.com/screwitup
We could have made a list of ways to screw up a marriage, but we
don't need to. That list will work for many purposes.
So maybe look at that link and imagine it a list of ways to give kids
food issues. Then you'll have a list in your head of what not to do!
-=-On the one hand, we do teach our kids what to eat -=-
Do you? I advise against that.
-=-(parents have complete control over what a 2-year-old has access
to or not)-=-
Do you really? TRULY? I seriously advise against over-controlling
what a two year old eats too, or can't eat.
Years ago, mid-70's, I was babysitting my all-natural niece, and we
lost her. She was in the garden, between thick rows, with an open
sack of sugar, shovelling it in with both hands. She was five or so.
If a child is allowed to eat a sugar packet at a restaurant, or to
play with (and maybe taste or eat) sugar cubes, or allowed to have
more sugar on oatmeal or cereal if she wants it, instead of being
told "no" or "you have enough" or "sugar is bad," then I bet she will
never, EVER squat in the field over a four lb. bag of sugar hoping to
load up before she's caught.
-=-OTOH, I can see that too limited an offering of choices,
especially with older kids, limits their ability to figure out how to
make choices that work for them. This makes sense to me.-=-
If they've made choices since they were two, since they were babies,
there is no "especially with older kids" time coming.
If babies can nurse or not when they want to, if they can reach for
food or turn their head to refuse it, that's the start of their
choicemaking and of parents' trust. It's no good to control or
force or forbid and then at some point decide they're old enough to
decide.
-=-I don't think anyone hands whiskey to a 2-year-old! -=-
If you see only two choices (full control or giving them shots of
whiskey), your world is too small.
http://sandradodd.com/balance
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-I could also ask for their help in avoiding the foods I tend to binge
on--it's hard for me to not eat them when other's are eating them around
me. ... Maybe the kids would be willing to not eat doughnuts
in front of me -=-
Don't make the kids codependent on you. That's no good at ALL.
Don't make it their responsibility to keep you on your chosen diet.
They're kids.
-=-but they'd choose chips over fruit if we had the chips in the
house.-=-
Unless you keep chips and fruit both, they're unable to choose at all.
If chips and donuts are forbidden, they will want them, dream of
them, seek them out, eat LOTS when you're not there.
Don't set foods up with values that way. Learn to choose in the
moment. It will be way easier for your kids if they start not, than
if they wait until they're as old as you are.
-=-eating candy all day also works for hypoglycemics.-=-
"Works" meaning what!? Sorry--that doesn't even make sense. If he's
losing the ability to focus, or getting a headache, candy won't help
a bit, but protein will. When I was young I had audio distortions
from no protein (I was being a poor college student vegetarian in a
shared house of stoners), and boiled eggs and nuts were like miracle
food. Cheese was like spinach for Popeye. When Kirby was little, he
was having scary feelings and we figured out it was similar audio
distortions. Not hallucinations, not hearing things that weren't
there, but hearing things in "wrong" ways (and sometimes seeing
things in distotred ways, like from a high angle, which some people
like to think of as an indication of out-of-body experience, but
protein will fix that too. <g>
Try more protein snacks. It will probably help anyone, and will keep
people from getting hungry enough to feel they "need" a bunch of
chips, too.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
on--it's hard for me to not eat them when other's are eating them around
me. ... Maybe the kids would be willing to not eat doughnuts
in front of me -=-
Don't make the kids codependent on you. That's no good at ALL.
Don't make it their responsibility to keep you on your chosen diet.
They're kids.
-=-but they'd choose chips over fruit if we had the chips in the
house.-=-
Unless you keep chips and fruit both, they're unable to choose at all.
If chips and donuts are forbidden, they will want them, dream of
them, seek them out, eat LOTS when you're not there.
Don't set foods up with values that way. Learn to choose in the
moment. It will be way easier for your kids if they start not, than
if they wait until they're as old as you are.
-=-eating candy all day also works for hypoglycemics.-=-
"Works" meaning what!? Sorry--that doesn't even make sense. If he's
losing the ability to focus, or getting a headache, candy won't help
a bit, but protein will. When I was young I had audio distortions
from no protein (I was being a poor college student vegetarian in a
shared house of stoners), and boiled eggs and nuts were like miracle
food. Cheese was like spinach for Popeye. When Kirby was little, he
was having scary feelings and we figured out it was similar audio
distortions. Not hallucinations, not hearing things that weren't
there, but hearing things in "wrong" ways (and sometimes seeing
things in distotred ways, like from a high angle, which some people
like to think of as an indication of out-of-body experience, but
protein will fix that too. <g>
Try more protein snacks. It will probably help anyone, and will keep
people from getting hungry enough to feel they "need" a bunch of
chips, too.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
Food limits.
I have a friend that I have know since we were together at La Leche. Ours sons are the same age, 6 years old. She then has a girl and after that she has a boy same age as my dd Gigi that is 29 months old. She has also a little 8 week baby girl.
She is a homeschooler.
When I met her I really like that she was so gentle and patient with her kids. Fast forward today she is still soft spoken but pretty controlling.
(The difference is me and not the way she parents. I changed.)
She just controls them with a soft voice. She does not "punish " them or so she thinks she does not.
So anyway I was going to talk about what limiting does.
Her oldest is a husky guy. He is tall like MD ( my son) is but he is "solid". Her pediatrician last year told her he needed to go on a diet.
So during the Summer he had his food totally controlled even more than she already did before.
Needles to say he comes to my house and will sneak as much food as he can. He will eat a box of oreos (when she is not looking) in minutes.
He will ask for pop every time he comes because she does not allow him to drink pop.
I always have the kids pop in the firdge and they seldom drink it. Last time MD had pop was when Simon and Linneae where here a month ago.
I still have some of the pop I bought them.
These kids even remember whatever stuff I had months ago and ask for it. They really do gorge on it like its their last meal.
She thinks she is "teaching" them to eat sensible and health and all they are learning is that they need to stuff in as much prohibit or limited food they can while they can because they don't know when they will be able to have some more of that. She is making those foods more appealing than the "allowed" ones. She does not see that. Her fears that they will be overweight and unhealthily prevent her from seeing it.
She and her DH are overweight and I think they are afraid their kids will be too.
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I have a friend that I have know since we were together at La Leche. Ours sons are the same age, 6 years old. She then has a girl and after that she has a boy same age as my dd Gigi that is 29 months old. She has also a little 8 week baby girl.
She is a homeschooler.
When I met her I really like that she was so gentle and patient with her kids. Fast forward today she is still soft spoken but pretty controlling.
(The difference is me and not the way she parents. I changed.)
She just controls them with a soft voice. She does not "punish " them or so she thinks she does not.
So anyway I was going to talk about what limiting does.
Her oldest is a husky guy. He is tall like MD ( my son) is but he is "solid". Her pediatrician last year told her he needed to go on a diet.
So during the Summer he had his food totally controlled even more than she already did before.
Needles to say he comes to my house and will sneak as much food as he can. He will eat a box of oreos (when she is not looking) in minutes.
He will ask for pop every time he comes because she does not allow him to drink pop.
I always have the kids pop in the firdge and they seldom drink it. Last time MD had pop was when Simon and Linneae where here a month ago.
I still have some of the pop I bought them.
These kids even remember whatever stuff I had months ago and ask for it. They really do gorge on it like its their last meal.
She thinks she is "teaching" them to eat sensible and health and all they are learning is that they need to stuff in as much prohibit or limited food they can while they can because they don't know when they will be able to have some more of that. She is making those foods more appealing than the "allowed" ones. She does not see that. Her fears that they will be overweight and unhealthily prevent her from seeing it.
She and her DH are overweight and I think they are afraid their kids will be too.
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
And just to add to my post. All her other kids( not the baby of course<G>) do the same even her 29 month old!
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
----- Original Message ----
From: BRIAN POLIKOWSKY <polykowholsteins@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, July 6, 2008 12:04:25 PM
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] bad role models
Food limits.
I have a friend that I have know since we were together at La Leche. Ours sons are the same age, 6 years old. She then has a girl and after that she has a boy same age as my dd Gigi that is 29 months old. She has also a little 8 week baby girl.
She is a homeschooler.
When I met her I really like that she was so gentle and patient with her kids. Fast forward today she is still soft spoken but pretty controlling.
(The difference is me and not the way she parents. I changed.)
She just controls them with a soft voice. She does not "punish " them or so she thinks she does not.
So anyway I was going to talk about what limiting does.
Her oldest is a husky guy. He is tall like MD ( my son) is but he is "solid". Her pediatrician last year told her he needed to go on a diet.
So during the Summer he had his food totally controlled even more than she already did before.
Needles to say he comes to my house and will sneak as much food as he can. He will eat a box of oreos (when she is not looking) in minutes.
He will ask for pop every time he comes because she does not allow him to drink pop.
I always have the kids pop in the firdge and they seldom drink it. Last time MD had pop was when Simon and Linneae where here a month ago.
I still have some of the pop I bought them.
These kids even remember whatever stuff I had months ago and ask for it. They really do gorge on it like its their last meal.
She thinks she is "teaching" them to eat sensible and health and all they are learning is that they need to stuff in as much prohibit or limited food they can while they can because they don't know when they will be able to have some more of that. She is making those foods more appealing than the "allowed" ones. She does not see that. Her fears that they will be overweight and unhealthily prevent her from seeing it.
She and her DH are overweight and I think they are afraid their kids will be too.
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow. blogspot. com/
http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/unschoolin gmn/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
----- Original Message ----
From: BRIAN POLIKOWSKY <polykowholsteins@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, July 6, 2008 12:04:25 PM
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] bad role models
Food limits.
I have a friend that I have know since we were together at La Leche. Ours sons are the same age, 6 years old. She then has a girl and after that she has a boy same age as my dd Gigi that is 29 months old. She has also a little 8 week baby girl.
She is a homeschooler.
When I met her I really like that she was so gentle and patient with her kids. Fast forward today she is still soft spoken but pretty controlling.
(The difference is me and not the way she parents. I changed.)
She just controls them with a soft voice. She does not "punish " them or so she thinks she does not.
So anyway I was going to talk about what limiting does.
Her oldest is a husky guy. He is tall like MD ( my son) is but he is "solid". Her pediatrician last year told her he needed to go on a diet.
So during the Summer he had his food totally controlled even more than she already did before.
Needles to say he comes to my house and will sneak as much food as he can. He will eat a box of oreos (when she is not looking) in minutes.
He will ask for pop every time he comes because she does not allow him to drink pop.
I always have the kids pop in the firdge and they seldom drink it. Last time MD had pop was when Simon and Linneae where here a month ago.
I still have some of the pop I bought them.
These kids even remember whatever stuff I had months ago and ask for it. They really do gorge on it like its their last meal.
She thinks she is "teaching" them to eat sensible and health and all they are learning is that they need to stuff in as much prohibit or limited food they can while they can because they don't know when they will be able to have some more of that. She is making those foods more appealing than the "allowed" ones. She does not see that. Her fears that they will be overweight and unhealthily prevent her from seeing it.
She and her DH are overweight and I think they are afraid their kids will be too.
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow. blogspot. com/
http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/unschoolin gmn/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Robin
So one of the items on the "how to screw up" list is something like
"place restrictions on the TV they watch". I need some help finding
balance with this one, too.
TV was basically my father's "drug of choice" (when my mom cut off his
money (that he was earning) so he could no longer drink heavily--how's
THAT for co-dependent! And he let her). It's also my kid's mother's
"drug of choice" (it's pretty much all she does, she's on disability and
sits at home watching TV more or less 24/7). So my concern is that
damage has been done, perhaps, and how do I help find a healthier
balance for the kids so they have the option to choose it if they want to?
For example, when I met the family the 4-year-old's favorite movie was
the "Rocky Horror Picture Show". The 2-year-old liked it a lot, too.
Now, I personally love that movie and think it's healing for those of us
with constrained and self-hating sexuality (and who in our culture isn't
in some ways?). BUT this was in a context where none of the kids were
being talked to about sexuality or bodies--they were seeing it on
TV/videos but it was completely taboo to discuss it or help them in any
way figure out about it. The idea was that kids aren't sexual at all and
have no feelings like that so it's harmless to show them adult sexuality.
Then they were sent to school and to play with kids whose parents were
religious and they imitated what they saw in the movies and everyone
freaked out! The youngest is nearly shunned in the small town where we
lived for years (and their Granny still lives so we visit often), I
think in part because parents think she's going to be (what they
consider for religious reasons) physically inappropriate with their
kids. The kids in one family even started calling her the devil and
running away whenever they saw her. So, ok, were moving to a new
community (at least that's the plan!) where we will hopefully find more
appropriate playmates for all the kids, but I'd like some help figuring
out how best to help the kids grow into healthy adult sexuality and lives.
Providing X-rated movies for the pre-pubescent is one extreme that I
assume everyone would agree isn't a good idea (although it is becoming a
genuine question for the 13-year-old boy, or at least the idea of
Playboy is on the table). Never letting them see any hint of love or
sexuality would be the other extreme, I guess. How do I find a happy
medium where I am not stifling their ability to choose but I'm not doing
injury to their developing selves either? (and I'm not even talking
about the horror movies they were forced to watch as toddlers!)
Somewhere on the continuum are hip-hop and rap videos that emphasize
what would have been considered soft-porn when I was a kid. It feels
good to watch them! But do they help either the boy or the girls develop
self-esteem based on anything but external appearance and whether they
are "hot" or not? I'm not saying not ever letting them participate in
popular media-driven culture, but how do I find balance and provide
genuine alternatives when what they have been exposed to feels so good?
Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Robin
"place restrictions on the TV they watch". I need some help finding
balance with this one, too.
TV was basically my father's "drug of choice" (when my mom cut off his
money (that he was earning) so he could no longer drink heavily--how's
THAT for co-dependent! And he let her). It's also my kid's mother's
"drug of choice" (it's pretty much all she does, she's on disability and
sits at home watching TV more or less 24/7). So my concern is that
damage has been done, perhaps, and how do I help find a healthier
balance for the kids so they have the option to choose it if they want to?
For example, when I met the family the 4-year-old's favorite movie was
the "Rocky Horror Picture Show". The 2-year-old liked it a lot, too.
Now, I personally love that movie and think it's healing for those of us
with constrained and self-hating sexuality (and who in our culture isn't
in some ways?). BUT this was in a context where none of the kids were
being talked to about sexuality or bodies--they were seeing it on
TV/videos but it was completely taboo to discuss it or help them in any
way figure out about it. The idea was that kids aren't sexual at all and
have no feelings like that so it's harmless to show them adult sexuality.
Then they were sent to school and to play with kids whose parents were
religious and they imitated what they saw in the movies and everyone
freaked out! The youngest is nearly shunned in the small town where we
lived for years (and their Granny still lives so we visit often), I
think in part because parents think she's going to be (what they
consider for religious reasons) physically inappropriate with their
kids. The kids in one family even started calling her the devil and
running away whenever they saw her. So, ok, were moving to a new
community (at least that's the plan!) where we will hopefully find more
appropriate playmates for all the kids, but I'd like some help figuring
out how best to help the kids grow into healthy adult sexuality and lives.
Providing X-rated movies for the pre-pubescent is one extreme that I
assume everyone would agree isn't a good idea (although it is becoming a
genuine question for the 13-year-old boy, or at least the idea of
Playboy is on the table). Never letting them see any hint of love or
sexuality would be the other extreme, I guess. How do I find a happy
medium where I am not stifling their ability to choose but I'm not doing
injury to their developing selves either? (and I'm not even talking
about the horror movies they were forced to watch as toddlers!)
Somewhere on the continuum are hip-hop and rap videos that emphasize
what would have been considered soft-porn when I was a kid. It feels
good to watch them! But do they help either the boy or the girls develop
self-esteem based on anything but external appearance and whether they
are "hot" or not? I'm not saying not ever letting them participate in
popular media-driven culture, but how do I find balance and provide
genuine alternatives when what they have been exposed to feels so good?
Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Robin
Robin
Sandra Dodd wrote:
<rearranged from the bottom>
I'm just trying to understand the continuum (the gray in between) and
find the right balance for the complex situation we're in (partly
because of my unhealed food issues, but also because of other factors).
I wasn't saying we should over control what a 2-year-old eats but I also
don't think anyone would agree that 2-year-olds need to experience the
choice of whiskey or they wont be able to handle it later.
I have seen my friend's 2 and 3 year old being given the choice of soda,
candy and whatever he wants, and he never eats meals with the family and
actually steals candy on the rare occasions he is told "no".
<back to the beginning of post>
about what's on the list mostly made sense to me, but they also included
items that implied to me that NO restrictions or limitations should be
placed on either food or TV. Those were the only two on the list that
stuck for me. I think because I have a family history of what seems to
me like addictive behavior around both.
I've started a new topic to talk about TV so as not to get to complex here.
I know that I place WAY too many restrictions and I am learning some
good suggestions for how I can relax more and trust more. I'd say I'm
looking for help in the De-Schooling phase, I guess. And I see my
comfort level with freedom as a good chunk of what I'm working on, I
hear that and want to do my best.
But I'm in a situation where the kids I am now raising have been in less
restricted environments and I feel in a way that they have never had a
healthier option available as a choice. So part of de-schooling in our
situation, I'm thinking (perhaps wrongly, I admit), is figuring out how
to let them truly experience healthier options so they then actually
have something to choose between.
partly from other family influences (not to mention that their mother is
bulimic). How do I help both them and me heal (WITHOUT making them
co-dependent!)
For example, the youngest was not quite 3 when I met the family. The
mother rarely spoke to her except with extreme hostility in her voice
(she was severely depressed at the time) but when the little girl cried
she was given sugar (soda or candy or the like). This mollified her and
years later (at 5 and 6) when upset the girl would say "I just need
candy and I'll feel better". BTW when a toddler she would have a "sugar
reaction" resulting in lots of energy which caused more hostile
reactions...and the cycle continued (one night the mother gave the 3
year-old an entire can of soda then tried to make her go to
bed--threatening to beat her with a belt if she didn't "lie down and got
to sleep"--my SO and I intervened, taking her into our room where she
bounced on the bed with her eyes literly bugged out for a full 45 minutes!)
<snip>
you a candy bar" or even presenting sugary foods as desirable treats?
I'm not sure I made up my own mind about candy--it was a "prize" and so
I experienced it as such. If we actually freely tasted a lot of American
candy it's so sweet it almost hurts. I was given value judgments
(positive ones) about sweets before I had the opportunity to form my own
opinions. And, yeah, I'm really mad at my mother for that (kidding!)
about myself and how not to do what I always planned not to do by
looking back over what I did do. Is there a "do over" button?
Also, I feel like I'm just figuring out how to be really good with 4 and
5 year olds and my youngest is turning 9 in two weeks! Yikes! I totally
hear you when you talk about how urgent "getting" this stuff is. I
blinked and my pre-schoolers are pubescent!
Thanks for giving me a place where I can talk about my doubts and
struggles to be better for my kids.
Robin
<rearranged from the bottom>
>No, no! I don't see only two choices :)
> -=-I don't think anyone hands whiskey to a 2-year-old! -=-
>
> If you see only two choices (full control or giving them shots of
> whiskey), your world is too small.
I'm just trying to understand the continuum (the gray in between) and
find the right balance for the complex situation we're in (partly
because of my unhealed food issues, but also because of other factors).
I wasn't saying we should over control what a 2-year-old eats but I also
don't think anyone would agree that 2-year-olds need to experience the
choice of whiskey or they wont be able to handle it later.
I have seen my friend's 2 and 3 year old being given the choice of soda,
candy and whatever he wants, and he never eats meals with the family and
actually steals candy on the rare occasions he is told "no".
<back to the beginning of post>
> -=-I'm pretty sure I have made sure (mea culpa!) I so hear my mom in myI think that's what started this question for me. Reading the posts
> side of this discussion...Talk about food hang-ups!-=-
>
> Here's a tool for you. We just made a list lately of ways to screw
> up unschooling.
>
> http://sandradodd.com/screwitup
about what's on the list mostly made sense to me, but they also included
items that implied to me that NO restrictions or limitations should be
placed on either food or TV. Those were the only two on the list that
stuck for me. I think because I have a family history of what seems to
me like addictive behavior around both.
I've started a new topic to talk about TV so as not to get to complex here.
I know that I place WAY too many restrictions and I am learning some
good suggestions for how I can relax more and trust more. I'd say I'm
looking for help in the De-Schooling phase, I guess. And I see my
comfort level with freedom as a good chunk of what I'm working on, I
hear that and want to do my best.
But I'm in a situation where the kids I am now raising have been in less
restricted environments and I feel in a way that they have never had a
healthier option available as a choice. So part of de-schooling in our
situation, I'm thinking (perhaps wrongly, I admit), is figuring out how
to let them truly experience healthier options so they then actually
have something to choose between.
>My concern is that they already have food issues, partly from me and
>
> We could have made a list of ways to screw up a marriage, but we
> don't need to. That list will work for many purposes.
>
> So maybe look at that link and imagine it a list of ways to give kids
> food issues. Then you'll have a list in your head of what not to do!
partly from other family influences (not to mention that their mother is
bulimic). How do I help both them and me heal (WITHOUT making them
co-dependent!)
For example, the youngest was not quite 3 when I met the family. The
mother rarely spoke to her except with extreme hostility in her voice
(she was severely depressed at the time) but when the little girl cried
she was given sugar (soda or candy or the like). This mollified her and
years later (at 5 and 6) when upset the girl would say "I just need
candy and I'll feel better". BTW when a toddler she would have a "sugar
reaction" resulting in lots of energy which caused more hostile
reactions...and the cycle continued (one night the mother gave the 3
year-old an entire can of soda then tried to make her go to
bed--threatening to beat her with a belt if she didn't "lie down and got
to sleep"--my SO and I intervened, taking her into our room where she
bounced on the bed with her eyes literly bugged out for a full 45 minutes!)
<snip>
> Years ago, mid-70's, I was babysitting my all-natural niece, and weWhere did she get the sugar from?
> lost her. She was in the garden, between thick rows, with an open
> sack of sugar, shovelling it in with both hands. She was five or so.
>I'd agree. But on the other hand, what about "if your good, I'll give
> If a child is allowed to eat a sugar packet at a restaurant, or to
> play with (and maybe taste or eat) sugar cubes, or allowed to have
> more sugar on oatmeal or cereal if she wants it, instead of being
> told "no" or "you have enough" or "sugar is bad," then I bet she will
> never, EVER squat in the field over a four lb. bag of sugar hoping to
> load up before she's caught.
you a candy bar" or even presenting sugary foods as desirable treats?
I'm not sure I made up my own mind about candy--it was a "prize" and so
I experienced it as such. If we actually freely tasted a lot of American
candy it's so sweet it almost hurts. I was given value judgments
(positive ones) about sweets before I had the opportunity to form my own
opinions. And, yeah, I'm really mad at my mother for that (kidding!)
>I agree wholeheartedly! Next time around I am doing things sooo differently!
> -=-OTOH, I can see that too limited an offering of choices,
> especially with older kids, limits their ability to figure out how to
> make choices that work for them. This makes sense to me.-=-
>
> If they've made choices since they were two, since they were babies,
> there is no "especially with older kids" time coming.
>I sure wish kids came with a practice round. I have learned so much
> If babies can nurse or not when they want to, if they can reach for
> food or turn their head to refuse it, that's the start of their
> choicemaking and of parents' trust. It's no good to control or
> force or forbid and then at some point decide they're old enough to
> decide.
about myself and how not to do what I always planned not to do by
looking back over what I did do. Is there a "do over" button?
Also, I feel like I'm just figuring out how to be really good with 4 and
5 year olds and my youngest is turning 9 in two weeks! Yikes! I totally
hear you when you talk about how urgent "getting" this stuff is. I
blinked and my pre-schoolers are pubescent!
Thanks for giving me a place where I can talk about my doubts and
struggles to be better for my kids.
Robin
Robin
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY wrote:
"carb-a-holic" foods available they choose them over healthier options.
What do you think you are doing (right?) that you think has resulted in
your kids making healthier food choices?
Neighbor kids had no food restrictions and constantly ate snack foods
and candy. The 11 year old is slightly pudgy and frequently mentions how
often she throws up (like, "I wont drink apple juice because I once
drank so much I threw up").
Maybe the question is how do I present healthy choices and make them
appealing so they have a fighting chance? I especially have trouble with
vegetables and protein foods.
Robin
> Food limits.<snip>
>
> I always have the kids pop in the firdge and they seldom drink it. Last time MD had pop was when Simon and Linneae where here a month ago.Out of curiosity, what do your kids drink?
> I still have some of the pop I bought them.
> These kids even remember whatever stuff I had months ago and ask for it. They really do gorge on it like its their last meal.I know my kids do this, at least to some degree. But when we have
> She thinks she is "teaching" them to eat sensible and health and all they are learning is that they need to stuff in as much prohibit or limited food they can while they can because they don't know when they will be able to have some more of that. She is making those foods more appealing than the "allowed" ones. She does not see that. Her fears that they will be overweight and unhealthily prevent her from seeing it.
> She and her DH are overweight and I think they are afraid their kids will be too.
>
"carb-a-holic" foods available they choose them over healthier options.
What do you think you are doing (right?) that you think has resulted in
your kids making healthier food choices?
Neighbor kids had no food restrictions and constantly ate snack foods
and candy. The 11 year old is slightly pudgy and frequently mentions how
often she throws up (like, "I wont drink apple juice because I once
drank so much I threw up").
Maybe the question is how do I present healthy choices and make them
appealing so they have a fighting chance? I especially have trouble with
vegetables and protein foods.
Robin
cathyandgarth
--- In [email protected], Robin <GaiaAlive@...> wrote:
Hi Robin,
I just wanted to pull out a few of the things that you have written
and let you look at them *out of context*. You seem to be coming
from a place of a lot of judgement and fear. You have a very
specific idea of what healthy food is and judge all foods based on
this opinion. You seem to have a very specific concept of what a
healthy body looks like, and based on this, judge your step-son's and
everyone else in families' food choices and activity levels.
There is a lot of contradictory information and research about what
defines *healthy* foods and *healthy* bodies. What is healthy for
one person may not be healthy for another. Just because the media
has created a certain image of what a healthy body looks like,
doesn't mean it is the truth. Sometimes "pudgy" can be way better
from a health perspective than thin. Adolescents often gain weight
and sleep a lot, but it has nothing to do with their diet per se, but
a whole lot to do with hormones and growth.
Also, it feels like that you assume that since you have certain "hang-
ups" about food your step kids must also have the same issues. From
what you have written it feels like you believe that you have to
either totally control yourself or you totally lose control of
yourself. Since you are looking for and expecting this same
phenomena in your kids you find evidence to support it and ignore
evidence to the contrary. For example, you say that your kids will
choose chips over fruit, like this is a bad thing, but do they really
do this every single time?
Also, if they have been living with food controls, even if they are
unspoken covert emotional controls (like, "Oh, I can't eat donuts,
they are so unhealthy -- but you all can just enjoy them away from
me."), they are really going to have to go through a period of
deschooling food. When you first release controls and embrace trust,
you can pretty much trust that kids are going to test you and
themselves fully, for months, and you just have to keep smiling and
nodding and loving them.
Meredith, who writes on the AlwaysUnschooling list has written a lot
about her process of radical unschooling her stepson (whose mother
has very different parenting ideas) and his process of deschooling.
You might find some great bits of wisdom reading through her blog. I
would link the blog, but I can't find it ... maybe someone else can
find the adress of her blog, I thought I had it bookmarked and then I
thought I could find it over at AU, but I am striking out and I've
got to start packing for our camping trip.
Cathy
>maybe some pastry and candy thrown in for good measure
> a healthy diet when I don't myself!
> is becoming pudgy--like everyone in his family
> I am concerned about diabetes.
> We switched to juice instead of drinks with added sugar.
> if he ever experienced a diet full of less processed meat,
> vegetables and fruits that had real flavor (good, fresh, flavorful,
> fruits and vegetables and meats).
> the "fun" foods
> I'm a carb addict
> This seems horribly unhealthy
> The kids, of course, want to live off soda and chips, mainly, with
> because the foods they have not been exposed to healthieroptions
> but they'd choose chips over fruit if we had the chips in thehouse.
Hi Robin,
I just wanted to pull out a few of the things that you have written
and let you look at them *out of context*. You seem to be coming
from a place of a lot of judgement and fear. You have a very
specific idea of what healthy food is and judge all foods based on
this opinion. You seem to have a very specific concept of what a
healthy body looks like, and based on this, judge your step-son's and
everyone else in families' food choices and activity levels.
There is a lot of contradictory information and research about what
defines *healthy* foods and *healthy* bodies. What is healthy for
one person may not be healthy for another. Just because the media
has created a certain image of what a healthy body looks like,
doesn't mean it is the truth. Sometimes "pudgy" can be way better
from a health perspective than thin. Adolescents often gain weight
and sleep a lot, but it has nothing to do with their diet per se, but
a whole lot to do with hormones and growth.
Also, it feels like that you assume that since you have certain "hang-
ups" about food your step kids must also have the same issues. From
what you have written it feels like you believe that you have to
either totally control yourself or you totally lose control of
yourself. Since you are looking for and expecting this same
phenomena in your kids you find evidence to support it and ignore
evidence to the contrary. For example, you say that your kids will
choose chips over fruit, like this is a bad thing, but do they really
do this every single time?
Also, if they have been living with food controls, even if they are
unspoken covert emotional controls (like, "Oh, I can't eat donuts,
they are so unhealthy -- but you all can just enjoy them away from
me."), they are really going to have to go through a period of
deschooling food. When you first release controls and embrace trust,
you can pretty much trust that kids are going to test you and
themselves fully, for months, and you just have to keep smiling and
nodding and loving them.
Meredith, who writes on the AlwaysUnschooling list has written a lot
about her process of radical unschooling her stepson (whose mother
has very different parenting ideas) and his process of deschooling.
You might find some great bits of wisdom reading through her blog. I
would link the blog, but I can't find it ... maybe someone else can
find the adress of her blog, I thought I had it bookmarked and then I
thought I could find it over at AU, but I am striking out and I've
got to start packing for our camping trip.
Cathy
Robin
cathyandgarth wrote:
<snip>
so that I can allow my kids to find freedom. I did not realize how
empowering and supportive of spiritual growth Unschooling would be. This
completely ties in with the Awakening I have been pursuing for myself
spiritually. I had been wondering how to share that with the kids, and
duh!, be open, authentic and present. I don't have to "teach" what I am
finding and learning. I just have to BE it. (piece of cake, right?)
and negative all the time) and just enjoy, then they are more likely to
be interested in even trying what I'm eating!
I'll check the site out. Thanks!
Robin
> --- In [email protected], Robin <GaiaAlive@...> wrote:LOL
>> Like, how do I trust my kids to eat a healthy diet when I don't
> myself!
> Hi Robin,
> When I read this sentence all I could hear was Shaggy's voice ...
<snip>
> I think that an important part of unschooling for me, so far, hasThis is what is really exciting me right now--support for freeing myself
> been has been learning to give myself the freedom to trust _myself_
> around issues like food, tv, and computer. While I easily saw the
> advantage of letting go and really trusting my children, that process
> really served as a magnifying glass on my own personal/self trust
> issues. It was and is such a great opportunity for me to continue my
> own growth and developement as a human being. And, just as you can
> imagine how empowering it is for the kids in our lives to make free
> choices, imagine how empowering it will be for you to give up your
> judgements and critical views of your own diet?
so that I can allow my kids to find freedom. I did not realize how
empowering and supportive of spiritual growth Unschooling would be. This
completely ties in with the Awakening I have been pursuing for myself
spiritually. I had been wondering how to share that with the kids, and
duh!, be open, authentic and present. I don't have to "teach" what I am
finding and learning. I just have to BE it. (piece of cake, right?)
>This makes sense to me. If I stop being all ucky around food (up tight
> For me, a great weight lifted off my shoulders when I (sincerely and
> honestly) stopped critically judging eveything that I ate: Oh, I ate
> healthy today, or I shouldn't have had that second bowl of icecream,
> or I wish I ate more green vegies they are so healthy. I am not sure
> if I eat more or less *healthy* than I did before, but I feel great
> and I feel healthy and I really just enjoy my food. I haven't done
> this *for* my kids, but in writing this down I can really see how
> shifting my interactions with and internal conversations about food
> is super positive for them. (I found Byron Katie's The Work
> thework.com incredibly helpful in jumpstarting and solidifying this
> process.)
>
> Cathy
and negative all the time) and just enjoy, then they are more likely to
be interested in even trying what I'm eating!
I'll check the site out. Thanks!
Robin
Sandra Dodd
-=-Since you are looking for and expecting this same
phenomena in your kids you find evidence to support it and ignore
evidence to the contrary. For example, you say that your kids will
choose chips over fruit, like this is a bad thing, but do they really
do this every single time? -=-
This thought crossed my mind too when I read what Robin wrote.
Anyone who feels sure they know what their children will do, and who
takes steps to prevent it in advance, should read this:
http://sandradodd.com/ifilet
Read LOTS of it. Slowly.
None of those writers have actually *tried* the thing they're writing
about.
At my house there are chips and fruit all the time. I bought new
chips this morning because there's still some homemade guacamole, but
the last chips went stale. (We're not used to humidity here and it's
been humid.) The chips went stale even though there was good
guacamole. The kids don't gorge. I offered Holly and her boyfriend
homemade cheesecake last night. They refused it politely. They've
had some; it's good. They're just not in the habit of rewarding
themselves with food, and because food is readily available, there is
no desperation to eat it.
What they had eaten earlier was tuna salad rolled up in lettuce
leaves. One drank chocolate milk and the other drank tea (leftover
from hot tea, cold in the fridge). There were sodas.
You could say "yes but they're older" but Holly is on her seventeenth
year of being able to taste what she wants to taste and put it down
or spit it out if she doesn't like it.
At a fourth of July party, she ate corn on the cob. I think that's
all she had, but she really had fun with it and finished it all and
put the cob in recycling. There were sodas and chips and cake, but I
didn't see her getting those, though she could've.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
phenomena in your kids you find evidence to support it and ignore
evidence to the contrary. For example, you say that your kids will
choose chips over fruit, like this is a bad thing, but do they really
do this every single time? -=-
This thought crossed my mind too when I read what Robin wrote.
Anyone who feels sure they know what their children will do, and who
takes steps to prevent it in advance, should read this:
http://sandradodd.com/ifilet
Read LOTS of it. Slowly.
None of those writers have actually *tried* the thing they're writing
about.
At my house there are chips and fruit all the time. I bought new
chips this morning because there's still some homemade guacamole, but
the last chips went stale. (We're not used to humidity here and it's
been humid.) The chips went stale even though there was good
guacamole. The kids don't gorge. I offered Holly and her boyfriend
homemade cheesecake last night. They refused it politely. They've
had some; it's good. They're just not in the habit of rewarding
themselves with food, and because food is readily available, there is
no desperation to eat it.
What they had eaten earlier was tuna salad rolled up in lettuce
leaves. One drank chocolate milk and the other drank tea (leftover
from hot tea, cold in the fridge). There were sodas.
You could say "yes but they're older" but Holly is on her seventeenth
year of being able to taste what she wants to taste and put it down
or spit it out if she doesn't like it.
At a fourth of July party, she ate corn on the cob. I think that's
all she had, but she really had fun with it and finished it all and
put the cob in recycling. There were sodas and chips and cake, but I
didn't see her getting those, though she could've.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
cathyandgarth
--- In [email protected], Robin <GaiaAlive@...> wrote:
month ago.
We buy soda for the kids when they ask for it -- I wish they sold the
kind they like in those little half-size cans because I throw away a
lot of half empty cans of soda. We will also have soda around for
months, because everyone had what they wanted and then lost
interest. Mostly my kids prefer water. They like milk, but go
through phases. It's summer so we had been making pink lemonade
(from concentrate), but I just dumped half a pitcher that got moldy
sitting in the fridge, so I guess we are out of the phase. I have a
couple of cases of Caprisuns they wanted at the grocery store, I
haven't seen them drink much of them, but they have had a couple of
friends come over who have had several of them. My kids love chai
right now (Oregon brand) and will go through phases of drinking
several glasses of that each day. But mostly, at the end of each
day, when I look at what they drank throughout the day, most of what
they drink is just plain old water.
Cathy
>it. Last time MD had pop was when Simon and Linneae where here a
> > I always have the kids pop in the firdge and they seldom drink
month ago.
> > I still have some of the pop I bought them.I know the questions not for me and I have to get going but ...
>
> Out of curiosity, what do your kids drink?
>
We buy soda for the kids when they ask for it -- I wish they sold the
kind they like in those little half-size cans because I throw away a
lot of half empty cans of soda. We will also have soda around for
months, because everyone had what they wanted and then lost
interest. Mostly my kids prefer water. They like milk, but go
through phases. It's summer so we had been making pink lemonade
(from concentrate), but I just dumped half a pitcher that got moldy
sitting in the fridge, so I guess we are out of the phase. I have a
couple of cases of Caprisuns they wanted at the grocery store, I
haven't seen them drink much of them, but they have had a couple of
friends come over who have had several of them. My kids love chai
right now (Oregon brand) and will go through phases of drinking
several glasses of that each day. But mostly, at the end of each
day, when I look at what they drank throughout the day, most of what
they drink is just plain old water.
Cathy
Sandra Dodd
-=-wasn't saying we should over control what a 2-year-old eats but I
also
don't think anyone would agree that 2-year-olds need to experience the
choice of whiskey or they wont be able to handle it later.-=-
You seem to be wanting to call upon the list to agree with you, or to
state things in such ways that you have the backing of a large group
of people. "I also don't think anyone would agree that ..." and
"...is one extreme that I assume everyone would agree isn't a good
idea."
Try not to speak for others. This is a VERY big list. Let's talk
about the ideas themselves, from the point of view of what leads to
learning and peace, not about what most people do. Most people send
their kids to school, punish them, ground them, deprive and limit
them. The list isn't about what most people do.
Drop discussion of extremes like whiskey. It's a waste of energy and
time. If you're lucky, your posts will be read by hundreds of
people. Make them worth reading.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
also
don't think anyone would agree that 2-year-olds need to experience the
choice of whiskey or they wont be able to handle it later.-=-
You seem to be wanting to call upon the list to agree with you, or to
state things in such ways that you have the backing of a large group
of people. "I also don't think anyone would agree that ..." and
"...is one extreme that I assume everyone would agree isn't a good
idea."
Try not to speak for others. This is a VERY big list. Let's talk
about the ideas themselves, from the point of view of what leads to
learning and peace, not about what most people do. Most people send
their kids to school, punish them, ground them, deprive and limit
them. The list isn't about what most people do.
Drop discussion of extremes like whiskey. It's a waste of energy and
time. If you're lucky, your posts will be read by hundreds of
people. Make them worth reading.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-I need some help finding
balance with this one, too.
TV was basically my father's "drug of choice"... It's also my kid's
mother's
"drug of choice" -=-
I don't think you want balance. I think you want justification for
controls. If you insist on villifying TV, as a drug (with or without
quotation marks), you won't find balance. You'll find fear and
control, and you will broadcast fear and control.
-=-how do I help find a healthier balance for the kids so they have
the option to choose it if they want to?-=-
You're using words like "balance" and "option" and "choose," but you
seem to be missing what people are sharing with you about REAL
balance and options and choices.
-=-So, ok, were moving to a new community (at least that's the plan!)
where we will hopefully find more appropriate playmates for all the
kids,-=-
#1, Rocky Horror is not "X rated"
#2, My kids watched it, but they never acted it out.
So why are you blaming the playmates? Children need advice on how to
behave with other children, but you're talking to us about school,
and religious groups, and that's not what unschooling is about.
-=-Providing X-rated movies for the pre-pubescent is one extreme that
I assume everyone would agree isn't a good idea-=-
In this discussion, that's your "whiskey for two-year-olds" example,
then. No one here needs to agree what's a good idea or not. You can
take in ideas and make your own decisions without looking for a
consensus on this list (or anywhere).
-=-How do I find a happy medium where I am not stifling their ability
to choose but I'm not doing injury to their developing selves either?
(and I'm not even talking about the horror movies they were forced to
watch as toddlers!)-=-
http://sandradodd.com/deschooling
http://sandradodd.com/checklists
http://sandradodd.com/help
http://sandradodd.com/movies
http://sandradodd.com/tv
Please read there.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
balance with this one, too.
TV was basically my father's "drug of choice"... It's also my kid's
mother's
"drug of choice" -=-
I don't think you want balance. I think you want justification for
controls. If you insist on villifying TV, as a drug (with or without
quotation marks), you won't find balance. You'll find fear and
control, and you will broadcast fear and control.
-=-how do I help find a healthier balance for the kids so they have
the option to choose it if they want to?-=-
You're using words like "balance" and "option" and "choose," but you
seem to be missing what people are sharing with you about REAL
balance and options and choices.
-=-So, ok, were moving to a new community (at least that's the plan!)
where we will hopefully find more appropriate playmates for all the
kids,-=-
#1, Rocky Horror is not "X rated"
#2, My kids watched it, but they never acted it out.
So why are you blaming the playmates? Children need advice on how to
behave with other children, but you're talking to us about school,
and religious groups, and that's not what unschooling is about.
-=-Providing X-rated movies for the pre-pubescent is one extreme that
I assume everyone would agree isn't a good idea-=-
In this discussion, that's your "whiskey for two-year-olds" example,
then. No one here needs to agree what's a good idea or not. You can
take in ideas and make your own decisions without looking for a
consensus on this list (or anywhere).
-=-How do I find a happy medium where I am not stifling their ability
to choose but I'm not doing injury to their developing selves either?
(and I'm not even talking about the horror movies they were forced to
watch as toddlers!)-=-
http://sandradodd.com/deschooling
http://sandradodd.com/checklists
http://sandradodd.com/help
http://sandradodd.com/movies
http://sandradodd.com/tv
Please read there.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-If I stop being all ucky around food (up tight
and negative all the time) and just enjoy, then they are more likely to
be interested in even trying what I'm eating!-=-
Yes! And even if they're not interested, you still have taken out
some uck and negativity.
http://sandradodd.com/parentingpeacefully
There are sound files at the bottom (thanks to the Stranahan family!)
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
and negative all the time) and just enjoy, then they are more likely to
be interested in even trying what I'm eating!-=-
Yes! And even if they're not interested, you still have taken out
some uck and negativity.
http://sandradodd.com/parentingpeacefully
There are sound files at the bottom (thanks to the Stranahan family!)
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-> Out of curiosity, what do your kids drink?
-=-I know the questions not for me and I have to get going but ......-=-
Questions like this should be considered to be for anyone in the
discussion!
Holly likes Izze sodas and Kern (?) fruit sodas. So does Keith. And
they like grapefruit sodas (I forget the name). Marty drinks Dr
Pepper and root beer, but Marty and Holly and their friends go
through a lot of bottled water, even though we keep a drawer of sodas
in the fridge all the time (and more in the garage).
In the fridge we keep a pitcher of sweet tea (ends from pots of tea,
or sometimes made directly for iced tea purposes in the summer), and
a Britta filter pitcher of cold water (in the summer). We always
have milk. Sometimes I make milk shakes.
Keith and I like lassi, a yogurt drink with milk, lemon, salt and
cumin. I make it. It's good on crazy-hot days. The kids don't like
it.
Until kids have had all they want of something, they won't start
turning it down. When kids have had choices their whole lives, it's
easy for them to know what "all they want" is--for my kids, that
happened before they can remember. They're not needy. It's a huge
difference. It goes against "common knowledge," but if common
knowledge were worth a damn, wouldn't this culture be a paradise of
mental health and joy, with empty prisons and long-lasting marriages?
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
-=-I know the questions not for me and I have to get going but ......-=-
Questions like this should be considered to be for anyone in the
discussion!
Holly likes Izze sodas and Kern (?) fruit sodas. So does Keith. And
they like grapefruit sodas (I forget the name). Marty drinks Dr
Pepper and root beer, but Marty and Holly and their friends go
through a lot of bottled water, even though we keep a drawer of sodas
in the fridge all the time (and more in the garage).
In the fridge we keep a pitcher of sweet tea (ends from pots of tea,
or sometimes made directly for iced tea purposes in the summer), and
a Britta filter pitcher of cold water (in the summer). We always
have milk. Sometimes I make milk shakes.
Keith and I like lassi, a yogurt drink with milk, lemon, salt and
cumin. I make it. It's good on crazy-hot days. The kids don't like
it.
Until kids have had all they want of something, they won't start
turning it down. When kids have had choices their whole lives, it's
easy for them to know what "all they want" is--for my kids, that
happened before they can remember. They're not needy. It's a huge
difference. It goes against "common knowledge," but if common
knowledge were worth a damn, wouldn't this culture be a paradise of
mental health and joy, with empty prisons and long-lasting marriages?
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
Out of curiosity, what do your kids drink?
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
My kids like water. Period. A juice once in a great while. My oldest sometimes like milk with ovaltine or a chocolate milk shake.
But they really want to drink water.
I have one of those water coolers with a big water jug like you see in offices and they just drink out of the little faucet.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
I know my kids do this, at least to some degree. But when we have
"carb-a-holic" foods available they choose them over healthier options.
What do you think you are doing (right?) that you think has resulted in
your kids making healthier food choices?
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
I don't limit. I make food available all the time and offer food every 2- 3 hours.
I make "Goodies Plates" or some call "Monkey Platter"
I offer those every 3-4 hour.
I put in them( for example)
fruit in pieces
crackers
cheeses
celery
baby carrots
grape tomatoes,
cereal
chocolate chips
dried fruit
cookies
deli-meat
pieces of chicken
lots of different snack easy stuff.
They can it as much or as little as they want and whatever they want
I f I ask what they want for lunch and MD say ice-cream I give him ice-crea,, than I will some other healthy stuff to eat and he will most likely have a go on it too, or not!
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
My kids like water. Period. A juice once in a great while. My oldest sometimes like milk with ovaltine or a chocolate milk shake.
But they really want to drink water.
I have one of those water coolers with a big water jug like you see in offices and they just drink out of the little faucet.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
I know my kids do this, at least to some degree. But when we have
"carb-a-holic" foods available they choose them over healthier options.
What do you think you are doing (right?) that you think has resulted in
your kids making healthier food choices?
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
I don't limit. I make food available all the time and offer food every 2- 3 hours.
I make "Goodies Plates" or some call "Monkey Platter"
I offer those every 3-4 hour.
I put in them( for example)
fruit in pieces
crackers
cheeses
celery
baby carrots
grape tomatoes,
cereal
chocolate chips
dried fruit
cookies
deli-meat
pieces of chicken
lots of different snack easy stuff.
They can it as much or as little as they want and whatever they want
I f I ask what they want for lunch and MD say ice-cream I give him ice-crea,, than I will some other healthy stuff to eat and he will most likely have a go on it too, or not!
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jenny C
> On the one hand, we do teach our kids what to eat (parents havecomplete
> control over what a 2-year-old has access to or not). OTOH, I can seeParents don't have to have complete control over what a toddler eats.
> that too limited an offering of choices, especially with older kids,
> limits their ability to figure out how to make choices that work for
> them. This makes sense to me.
Parents ultimately do have that control because they are bigger and have
the money, but it doesn't have to be that way within a household or a
grocery store outing. Plenty of 2 yr olds know exactly what they want
to eat and don't hesitate to say so and the parents have the power to
empower their 2 yr old.
This is exactly how unschooling unfolds when you start at the beginning.
If you are starting with older kids, the same principles apply. Older
kids often know exactly what they want to eat and parents have the power
to empower them too.
>But the kids hate itWhat do you consider fun foods? All food can be fun. Almost anything
> when I take all the "fun" foods out of the house, too.
can be prepared and presented in such a way as to be fun and pleasurable
to eat. By seperating a certain type of food as fun and others as not,
you are perpetuating the cycle that you are wishing to avoid in regards
to food that you consider healthy and not so healthy.
What I've found is that there are healthier alternatives to almost
everything. My discovery was prompted by my allergies to food, but it's
been a good one for my whole family.
> I'd like us to eat more healthily together. I'm a carb addict and itsthe
> hard for me to not eat doughnuts, pasta, ice cream, etc. when everyone
> around me is. (There's spouse issues in here, too!) But I don't like
> effect it has on my body!Just for the record, ice cream isn't a carb. Doughnuts, pasta, and ice
cream aren't necessarily "bad" for you foods either. It's more about
listening to your body and eating with balance and moderating your own
personal intake of food. If you don't like the way food effects your
body, eat differently, or excercise, so that your body metabolizes
differently (If you are refering to the effects of gaining weight, and
not the effects of other things, like digestive.).
How a person metabolizes food seems to be genetic. A person can spend
loads of energy and thought on how to eat and not gain weight, and still
gain weight simply because that is how they are genetically. Some
people can eat and eat and eat and not gain any weight.
My daughter (14) started gaining weight at around 11 and continued until
recently when she decided that she wanted to do something about it.
I've never ever told her she needed to do anything different with her
body. I made note of the changes that she was experiencing physically,
but I've always been more focused on her internal changes, how she
feels. I figured if she was round and happy, then I was happy, if she
was thin and happy then I was happy.
Large bodies, don't necessarily mean unhappiness. I see way too many
rounder women focus their entire lives on trying not to be round, so
much so, that the focus ceases to be about living and living happily,
but instead is about trying to be something they are not. My daughter
has 2 sets of genetics within her, my family is thin, all of the women
in my husband's family are large. She is built like my inlaws. There
is absolutely nothing I can do about that. She will have enormous
breasts and thin legs with a propensity to roundness in the belly. She
can choose to live happily with that or she can spend the rest of her
life unhappily fighting it like her relatives.
Chamille can make any food choices that she wants. She chooses to eat
healthy. She sees her relatives, their weight issues and diabetes
issues. She made a choice not to go down that road. She spent months
on end hardly eating anything. She was testing her own limits, her own
body, getting back to a clean slate to work with within herself. The
parents of her best friend accused her of being anorexic (which I'm sure
they used it some argument with their daughter against her). I will
admit that at first in concerned me. I decided to let it go, because
for one, I trust her absolutely, and for two, loads of people fast for
long periods of time and live to tell about it.
There is something innately spiritual about our connection with food and
how it keeps us alive. I feel that my daughter has experienced this
deeply and because of this, is very careful and decisive about her food
choices and what she puts into her body.
I could have done a lot to damage that process. The worst thing I
could've done is to force her to eat, force her to eat things she didn't
want to in the name of "good for you". I could have shamed her into
thinking that what she was doing was wrong or dangerous. I silenced
those voices. Afterall those with food disorders have all been known to
center around control or the lack there of. How awesome and empowering
for a teenager to be able to have absolute control over something so
intimate as how to eat to live.
Over the years, I have met many many people that have had eating
disorders, that still have issues with eating disorders. It leaves a
lasting scar over their lives. Eating should be pleasant and enjoyable,
afterall we have to eat in order to live. Once tainted with a disorder,
it ceases to be pleasant and can never ever be whole, truly whole.
People can do a lot to get over eating disorders and eventually have a
healthier attitude about food, but those issues will always be there
deep inside, like a scar is forever on your skin to remind you.
I don't want that for my kids ever! Period! My answer to avoid that is
to allow my kids to know what they want and give it to them. If a
certain food will make them feel good, then I will give it to them. If
at some point they decide that certain food doesn't make them feel good,
I trust they will eliminate it from their choices.
Pamela Sorooshian
On Jul 6, 2008, at 11:43 AM, Robin wrote:
on what else is going on. Or, sometimes, I go alone.
I always ask, "Anybody have anything they want at the store?"
They almost always have something - yesterday Rosie asked me to check
whether there were any good-looking avocados at decent prices. Roxana
wanted wheat bread (we had only sourdough bread in the house). They
often want me to get frozen foods like frozen macaroni and cheese. I
don't think any of them have ever asked for a soda. Whenever we shop
at Target, though, we almost always buy a soda at the checkout - there
is something about that store that leaves us extremely thirsty by the
time we're ready to leave - and they have really cold soda at the
check stands.
My kids drink lots of water - usually cold from the fridge. We drink
water with meals - always have. We have some of those packets that you
add to water to flavor them - every once in a while one of us will
have one of those, but they mostly sit here for months and months.
The kids drink soda sometimes, or lemonade, when we're eating out. I
usually have coffee and my dh usually has tea.
-pam
>> I always have the kids pop in the firdge and they seldom drink it.When we go grocery shopping, different kids will go with me, depending
>> Last time MD had pop was when Simon and Linneae where here a month
>> ago.
>> I still have some of the pop I bought them.
>
> Out of curiosity, what do your kids drink?
on what else is going on. Or, sometimes, I go alone.
I always ask, "Anybody have anything they want at the store?"
They almost always have something - yesterday Rosie asked me to check
whether there were any good-looking avocados at decent prices. Roxana
wanted wheat bread (we had only sourdough bread in the house). They
often want me to get frozen foods like frozen macaroni and cheese. I
don't think any of them have ever asked for a soda. Whenever we shop
at Target, though, we almost always buy a soda at the checkout - there
is something about that store that leaves us extremely thirsty by the
time we're ready to leave - and they have really cold soda at the
check stands.
My kids drink lots of water - usually cold from the fridge. We drink
water with meals - always have. We have some of those packets that you
add to water to flavor them - every once in a while one of us will
have one of those, but they mostly sit here for months and months.
The kids drink soda sometimes, or lemonade, when we're eating out. I
usually have coffee and my dh usually has tea.
-pam
Pamela Sorooshian
On Jul 6, 2008, at 11:27 AM, Robin wrote:
and non-restrictive.
We're NOT talking about negligence. So, when they start sounding the
same to you, it means you're missing something important. I'm
suggesting that you look for that missing link - see if you can find,
in our posts, what makes what we're doing different than negligence.
-pam
> But I'm in a situation where the kids I am now raising have been inI think it can help a lot to ponder the difference between negligent
> less
> restricted environments and I feel in a way that they have never had a
> healthier option available as a choice. So part of de-schooling in our
> situation, I'm thinking (perhaps wrongly, I admit), is figuring out
> how
> to let them truly experience healthier options so they then actually
> have something to choose between.
and non-restrictive.
We're NOT talking about negligence. So, when they start sounding the
same to you, it means you're missing something important. I'm
suggesting that you look for that missing link - see if you can find,
in our posts, what makes what we're doing different than negligence.
-pam