Intro/Questions
DaBreeze21
Hi,
My name is Susan May and I am new to this list. I am new to the idea
of unschooling too and very interested.
My daughter is 20 months old.
Sandra, I like how you mentioned that you discuss going to school
with your children every summer. I asked a similar question on
another list about getting my child's input -- letting her choose
school or to be home. Most people agreed that that is the best way to
go, but one person mentioned that maybe not when they are very young
(kindegarten age - ?). What do you all think about this? As my
daughter approaches "school age" how do I address this? Do we just go
on living out lives and when she starts asking about school talk
about the different options?
My second question concerns another topic that has been recently
discussed. I have only just begun reading/researching recently
(within the last few weeks) and I am thankful that I have come across
all of these ideas while my daughter is very young. These are very
new ideas to me! However, I'm pretty sure that my husband would think
that I am crazy to even consider unschoooling. I was hoping that some
of you might have some advice for how to start talking with him about
these ideas. I know that the first step is to really just start
discussing with him. I guess before I just jump into talking with him
about unschooling I really want to have a grasp on what unschooling
is, why I would want to do it and believe in it etc. I sometimes have
a hard time putting into words (speaking) my thoughts and feel if I
am not "prepared" a discussion with him may not go well. I know that
recently it has come up how important it is to have 2 supportive
parents when unschooling and so this is one of the major concerns on
my mind right now as I begin to learn about unschooling.
Thanks in advance for any input!
Susan
My name is Susan May and I am new to this list. I am new to the idea
of unschooling too and very interested.
My daughter is 20 months old.
Sandra, I like how you mentioned that you discuss going to school
with your children every summer. I asked a similar question on
another list about getting my child's input -- letting her choose
school or to be home. Most people agreed that that is the best way to
go, but one person mentioned that maybe not when they are very young
(kindegarten age - ?). What do you all think about this? As my
daughter approaches "school age" how do I address this? Do we just go
on living out lives and when she starts asking about school talk
about the different options?
My second question concerns another topic that has been recently
discussed. I have only just begun reading/researching recently
(within the last few weeks) and I am thankful that I have come across
all of these ideas while my daughter is very young. These are very
new ideas to me! However, I'm pretty sure that my husband would think
that I am crazy to even consider unschoooling. I was hoping that some
of you might have some advice for how to start talking with him about
these ideas. I know that the first step is to really just start
discussing with him. I guess before I just jump into talking with him
about unschooling I really want to have a grasp on what unschooling
is, why I would want to do it and believe in it etc. I sometimes have
a hard time putting into words (speaking) my thoughts and feel if I
am not "prepared" a discussion with him may not go well. I know that
recently it has come up how important it is to have 2 supportive
parents when unschooling and so this is one of the major concerns on
my mind right now as I begin to learn about unschooling.
Thanks in advance for any input!
Susan
Sandra Dodd
-=-However, I'm pretty sure that my husband would think
that I am crazy to even consider unschoooling. I was hoping that some
of you might have some advice for how to start talking with him about
these ideas. I know that the first step is to really just start
discussing with him. I guess before I just jump into talking with him
about unschooling I really want to have a grasp on what unschooling
is, why I would want to do it and believe in it etc.-=-
I would just keep it in mind as other conversations happen. If
something comes up about his school being unhappy, or your school
memories, or stories of nephews or neighbors, or whatever, maybe you
could just say "More and more kids are staying home."
If you see a news story about a homeschooler doing something cool,
you could point it out. Let him discover the whole idea gradually
too, I think, instead of preparing in secret and then blasting him
with a big fullblown deal.
Discover it together.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
that I am crazy to even consider unschoooling. I was hoping that some
of you might have some advice for how to start talking with him about
these ideas. I know that the first step is to really just start
discussing with him. I guess before I just jump into talking with him
about unschooling I really want to have a grasp on what unschooling
is, why I would want to do it and believe in it etc.-=-
I would just keep it in mind as other conversations happen. If
something comes up about his school being unhappy, or your school
memories, or stories of nephews or neighbors, or whatever, maybe you
could just say "More and more kids are staying home."
If you see a news story about a homeschooler doing something cool,
you could point it out. Let him discover the whole idea gradually
too, I think, instead of preparing in secret and then blasting him
with a big fullblown deal.
Discover it together.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Wendy S.
On Feb 23, 2008, at 2:34 AM, Sandra Dodd wrote:
Wendy S. in GA
Mom to Shelby, Age 9
http://ourjourneyfantastic.blogspot.com/
Come to the Trust Birth Conference!
March 7-9, 2008 in Redondo Beach, California
www.trustbirthconference.com
****************
BIRTH IS SAFE, INTERVENTION IS RISKY
http://www.trustbirth.com/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> If you see a news story about a homeschooler doing something cool,I like it...strewing for her hubby. :-)
> you could point it out. Let him discover the whole idea gradually
> too, I think, instead of preparing in secret and then blasting him
> with a big fullblown deal.
Wendy S. in GA
Mom to Shelby, Age 9
http://ourjourneyfantastic.blogspot.com/
Come to the Trust Birth Conference!
March 7-9, 2008 in Redondo Beach, California
www.trustbirthconference.com
****************
BIRTH IS SAFE, INTERVENTION IS RISKY
http://www.trustbirth.com/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
DaBreeze21
> I would just keep it in mind as other conversations happen. Ifyou
> something comes up about his school being unhappy, or your school
> memories, or stories of nephews or neighbors, or whatever, maybe
> could just say "More and more kids are staying home."gradually
>
> If you see a news story about a homeschooler doing something cool,
> you could point it out. Let him discover the whole idea
> too, I think, instead of preparing in secret and then blasting himThanks for your input. I definitely think that the slowly learning
> with a big fullblown deal.
>
>
>
> Discover it together.
>
>
>
> Sandra
>
together idea is best. Luckily our daughter is little still and we
are just starting our family so this approach should be good for our
family (no pressure to start school too soon!) It is just hard for me
sometimes when I have so many ideas rattling around in my brain to
not spill them all out. Also, I am a big reader and my husband is not
so much.
I did start a little conversation this morning and I feel that it
went pretty well. We were in the car and DH was driving (I've read
that men/boys tend to open up more in situations like this -- while
doing something). Anyways, it occured to me that part of the appeal
for me is this whole lifestyle and that there are other aspects that
we can discuss first that will pave the way to the idea of
unschooling -- ie parenting philosophies about chores/no chores,
communication, etc. Also, things that we have going for us is how we
have parented thus far (not long I know, since our daughter is not
even 2 yet!) -- from having a natural childbirth to using attachment
parenting prinicples... we have already started to do things in ways
that not many of our friends and family members do.
I am going to try and print out little things for him to read once in
a while. Any input people have regarding good, to-the-point articles
would be much appreciated!
Thanks again!
Susan
Sandra Dodd
-=-from having a natural childbirth to using attachment
parenting prinicples... we have already started to do things in ways
that not many of our friends and family members do.-=-
The kind of parenting I do is just attachment parenting extended on
through the years. It's the same stuff they talked about when I was
in La Leche League, but there most parents were sweet and
accommodating until the child weaned and then it was back to the same-
old, and time to go to school.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
parenting prinicples... we have already started to do things in ways
that not many of our friends and family members do.-=-
The kind of parenting I do is just attachment parenting extended on
through the years. It's the same stuff they talked about when I was
in La Leche League, but there most parents were sweet and
accommodating until the child weaned and then it was back to the same-
old, and time to go to school.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sally
--However, I'm pretty sure that my husband would think
that I am crazy to even consider unschoooling. I was hoping that
some
of you might have some advice for how to start talking with him
about
these ideas. I know that the first step is to really just start
discussing with him.--
Fabian is still warming up to these new ideas, too. I scored big
when he agreed with me that schools are places where learning is
stunted, and that homeschooling would be better for Will and Elias.
I'm avoiding introducing the concept of "unschooling" with him
until we're more established in our practice of parenting
peacefully, however.
--I guess before I just jump into talking with him
about unschooling I really want to have a grasp on what unschooling
is, why I would want to do it and believe in it etc.--
After I'd read some ideas I knew were good, I started doing. I
began by adjusting my own attitude in the family circle. I realized
that there were some areas where, not only was I being controlling
and disrespectful of 2-yo Will, I was doing the same to 30-yo
Fabian. I apologized to him for my negative and untrusting attitude
toward his choices, particularly TV and Internet usage, and informed
him that I wanted to move my own actions in the direction of having
peace in my home. I try to show Fabian how I'm planning to respect
our children's choices by respecting his, too. I'm working on
building trust in my marriage, because I want Fabian to feel safe
and to be able to trust me in my role as the stay-at-home
unschooling parent. It's going to take a huge amount of trust in me
for him to be able to move toward trusting the kids.
Some thoughts that helped me. (You may be farther along in your
progress with these than I am, and if you are, your husband is that
much closer to understanding unschooling.):
Consider everything you do to be a choice. It will help you not to
resent the amount you give of yourself to your family. Change the
way you speak about choices, too. Your husband will hear the
difference, though he may not know what it is. Hopefully, you may
hear the same change coming out of his mouth after a while.
http://sandradodd.com/choice
http://sandradodd.com/chores
http://sandradodd.com/haveto
Consider your timing. Sandra's right that the best times are when
something related to unschooling comes up in life. Fabian
frequently comments on "our incredibly smart kids!" and I respond
with, "Wow, you're right! They're learning so much so fast. I hope
we can do everything possible as they grow to give them the freedom
to learn as joyfully as they do now." I give him the chance to
continue the topic, but I don't push it. I point out the great
communication skills of some of the homeschooled kids we meet at
church. I comment about awesome things I've learned from the
internet as we're Googling our topics of interest. I also carefully
avoid times when Fabian is overtired, hungry, upset or angry about
work, distracted and likely to be annoyed by chit-chat, or right
after I've done something incredibly brick-headed, when he's more
likely to think I probably shouldn't be trusted with a pet, let
alone with children.
Say "Yes!" to your husband. You may be doing this already, but I
know there were areas where I wasn't and I had to adjust. Before, I
felt like I needed to put reins on Fabian. Why? Lack of trust and
fear of saying "yes" because maybe his project would "fail" or maybe
he would ask for my help and I wouldn't know what to do or maybe it
would cost money. I realized that if I had those attitudes with
Fabian, I would never make it unschooling my kids. I was being such
a nag! I also had to see where I was placing a value of "wasteful."
For example, it was not, in fact, a waste of money for Fabian to buy
a table saw, even though he only knew rudimentary carpentry at the
time. It is not, in fact, a waste of time for him to spend an
evening surfing the Web. I had to see this in my own mind. I had
to see that it was not, in fact, a waste of paper for Will to play
with using the print function on the word processor, especially
since I was right there with him and we were talking up a storm
about what was printing and how it worked and the colors and wet ink
and how to make it print right side up on the reverse side. What
would be a waste, then? Would it be a waste of my children's
childhood for me to wait to implement these new principles?
More here: http://joyfullyrejoycing.com/
Consider attachment parenting (OK, as I was writing this, the
conversation kept going and I see you already do. Great!) Fabian
continues to be blessed by our family bed, because he's part of that
nighttime parenting that would otherwise have been restricted to me
as the breastfeeding mom. He frequently awakens for a few moments
to murmer comforting words to 5-mo Elias while we're nursing or
while I'm changing a diaper. We are learning lots right now about
trusting our children to grow when they're ready while Will is
trying out the potty and thinking about weaning. These are examples
you can draw on in discussion with your husband about natural
learning.
--My daughter is 20 months old. I am thankful that I have come
across all of these ideas while my daughter is very young. --
We are indeed fortunate to have found unschooling while our children
are young, Susan! If I can become a mindful parent in my children's
babyhood, it will serve us as a family when the questions and the
activities really take off in a few years.
That reminds me. I have a question for Sandra. I saw a blurb on
your site about how you disagree with the idea that unschooling
starts at birth, but I've been scratching my head over it ever
since. Have you written about it someplace?
Hope I've been helpful. If anything I've said is not on a good
unschooling track, PLEASE correct me!
Sally
Unpreschooling mom to Will (2.5) and Elias (5 mos)
that I am crazy to even consider unschoooling. I was hoping that
some
of you might have some advice for how to start talking with him
about
these ideas. I know that the first step is to really just start
discussing with him.--
Fabian is still warming up to these new ideas, too. I scored big
when he agreed with me that schools are places where learning is
stunted, and that homeschooling would be better for Will and Elias.
I'm avoiding introducing the concept of "unschooling" with him
until we're more established in our practice of parenting
peacefully, however.
--I guess before I just jump into talking with him
about unschooling I really want to have a grasp on what unschooling
is, why I would want to do it and believe in it etc.--
After I'd read some ideas I knew were good, I started doing. I
began by adjusting my own attitude in the family circle. I realized
that there were some areas where, not only was I being controlling
and disrespectful of 2-yo Will, I was doing the same to 30-yo
Fabian. I apologized to him for my negative and untrusting attitude
toward his choices, particularly TV and Internet usage, and informed
him that I wanted to move my own actions in the direction of having
peace in my home. I try to show Fabian how I'm planning to respect
our children's choices by respecting his, too. I'm working on
building trust in my marriage, because I want Fabian to feel safe
and to be able to trust me in my role as the stay-at-home
unschooling parent. It's going to take a huge amount of trust in me
for him to be able to move toward trusting the kids.
Some thoughts that helped me. (You may be farther along in your
progress with these than I am, and if you are, your husband is that
much closer to understanding unschooling.):
Consider everything you do to be a choice. It will help you not to
resent the amount you give of yourself to your family. Change the
way you speak about choices, too. Your husband will hear the
difference, though he may not know what it is. Hopefully, you may
hear the same change coming out of his mouth after a while.
http://sandradodd.com/choice
http://sandradodd.com/chores
http://sandradodd.com/haveto
Consider your timing. Sandra's right that the best times are when
something related to unschooling comes up in life. Fabian
frequently comments on "our incredibly smart kids!" and I respond
with, "Wow, you're right! They're learning so much so fast. I hope
we can do everything possible as they grow to give them the freedom
to learn as joyfully as they do now." I give him the chance to
continue the topic, but I don't push it. I point out the great
communication skills of some of the homeschooled kids we meet at
church. I comment about awesome things I've learned from the
internet as we're Googling our topics of interest. I also carefully
avoid times when Fabian is overtired, hungry, upset or angry about
work, distracted and likely to be annoyed by chit-chat, or right
after I've done something incredibly brick-headed, when he's more
likely to think I probably shouldn't be trusted with a pet, let
alone with children.
Say "Yes!" to your husband. You may be doing this already, but I
know there were areas where I wasn't and I had to adjust. Before, I
felt like I needed to put reins on Fabian. Why? Lack of trust and
fear of saying "yes" because maybe his project would "fail" or maybe
he would ask for my help and I wouldn't know what to do or maybe it
would cost money. I realized that if I had those attitudes with
Fabian, I would never make it unschooling my kids. I was being such
a nag! I also had to see where I was placing a value of "wasteful."
For example, it was not, in fact, a waste of money for Fabian to buy
a table saw, even though he only knew rudimentary carpentry at the
time. It is not, in fact, a waste of time for him to spend an
evening surfing the Web. I had to see this in my own mind. I had
to see that it was not, in fact, a waste of paper for Will to play
with using the print function on the word processor, especially
since I was right there with him and we were talking up a storm
about what was printing and how it worked and the colors and wet ink
and how to make it print right side up on the reverse side. What
would be a waste, then? Would it be a waste of my children's
childhood for me to wait to implement these new principles?
More here: http://joyfullyrejoycing.com/
Consider attachment parenting (OK, as I was writing this, the
conversation kept going and I see you already do. Great!) Fabian
continues to be blessed by our family bed, because he's part of that
nighttime parenting that would otherwise have been restricted to me
as the breastfeeding mom. He frequently awakens for a few moments
to murmer comforting words to 5-mo Elias while we're nursing or
while I'm changing a diaper. We are learning lots right now about
trusting our children to grow when they're ready while Will is
trying out the potty and thinking about weaning. These are examples
you can draw on in discussion with your husband about natural
learning.
--My daughter is 20 months old. I am thankful that I have come
across all of these ideas while my daughter is very young. --
We are indeed fortunate to have found unschooling while our children
are young, Susan! If I can become a mindful parent in my children's
babyhood, it will serve us as a family when the questions and the
activities really take off in a few years.
That reminds me. I have a question for Sandra. I saw a blurb on
your site about how you disagree with the idea that unschooling
starts at birth, but I've been scratching my head over it ever
since. Have you written about it someplace?
Hope I've been helpful. If anything I've said is not on a good
unschooling track, PLEASE correct me!
Sally
Unpreschooling mom to Will (2.5) and Elias (5 mos)
Robyn L. Coburn
<<<<< I am going to try and print out little things for him to read once in
to save whole posts to reread later, but now it's easier to look in
archives. The cool quotes are great reminders of encapsulated ideas. Some of
them are my own - ideas about Jayn I want to reinforce in my memory, ideas
about actions that work.
When I first started investigating Unschooling and mindful parenting, and to
be honest I can't remember what I said other than reporting various posts at
different times and leaving out books with short passages marked, I was
surprised by how much he already understood - deeply and intuitively - more
than me. I often am struck by how elegantly simple he can make it when we
have conversations.
When he reads about Unschooling, such as the posted signs or book passages,
he always comes away puzzled - not with the content of what he has read,
because he is saying "Duh!" - but puzzled at what my point was is showing
it to him. He is usually full of "So? We already do this" remarks.
What is really crucial is to be cautious about reading material that a
husband might construe as criticising him. That is one thing I have learnt.
I am so proud of James. A couple of weeks ago, Jayn was unexpectedly hungry
and having a big meltdown made bigger by hunger (before we pinpointed the
hunger aspect and realized that this was a growth spurt beginning). It was
the kind of behavior that even safe and private in one's own home, would
cause conventional parents to react punitively and harshly. At least my mom
would have. Instead of blaming Jayn, or seeing fault in her, James said to
me, "We must be doing something wrong." I was in the midst of a maelstrom
(short lived I am happy to say) feeling all warm and loving because of how
insightful and just plain cool my husband is.
Has anyone recommended one of the Conferences yet? This year will be the
last Live and Learn in SC in September, and there are regional ones
happening - two in May. It is still good to come even with a tiny baby - in
fact it may be easier to hear more speakers if you only have a baby, or
toddler who would be content playing with the pile of cool little-kid toys
collected at the back of the speaker room for that purpose.
It's kind of a shameless plug, but James is speaking at L&L this year.
Robyn L. Coburn
www.Iggyjingles.etsy.com
www.iggyjingles.blogspot.com
> a while. Any input people have regarding good, to-the-point articlesI print and put up cool quotes around my house where I can see them. I used
> would be much appreciated! >>>
to save whole posts to reread later, but now it's easier to look in
archives. The cool quotes are great reminders of encapsulated ideas. Some of
them are my own - ideas about Jayn I want to reinforce in my memory, ideas
about actions that work.
When I first started investigating Unschooling and mindful parenting, and to
be honest I can't remember what I said other than reporting various posts at
different times and leaving out books with short passages marked, I was
surprised by how much he already understood - deeply and intuitively - more
than me. I often am struck by how elegantly simple he can make it when we
have conversations.
When he reads about Unschooling, such as the posted signs or book passages,
he always comes away puzzled - not with the content of what he has read,
because he is saying "Duh!" - but puzzled at what my point was is showing
it to him. He is usually full of "So? We already do this" remarks.
What is really crucial is to be cautious about reading material that a
husband might construe as criticising him. That is one thing I have learnt.
I am so proud of James. A couple of weeks ago, Jayn was unexpectedly hungry
and having a big meltdown made bigger by hunger (before we pinpointed the
hunger aspect and realized that this was a growth spurt beginning). It was
the kind of behavior that even safe and private in one's own home, would
cause conventional parents to react punitively and harshly. At least my mom
would have. Instead of blaming Jayn, or seeing fault in her, James said to
me, "We must be doing something wrong." I was in the midst of a maelstrom
(short lived I am happy to say) feeling all warm and loving because of how
insightful and just plain cool my husband is.
Has anyone recommended one of the Conferences yet? This year will be the
last Live and Learn in SC in September, and there are regional ones
happening - two in May. It is still good to come even with a tiny baby - in
fact it may be easier to hear more speakers if you only have a baby, or
toddler who would be content playing with the pile of cool little-kid toys
collected at the back of the speaker room for that purpose.
It's kind of a shameless plug, but James is speaking at L&L this year.
Robyn L. Coburn
www.Iggyjingles.etsy.com
www.iggyjingles.blogspot.com
Robyn L. Coburn
This is what I get for coming and going during composition.
The "he" I referred to with no identification is my husband. It reads a bit
like Jayn (dd) was the mysterious "he".
Robyn L. Coburn
www.Iggyjingles.etsy.com
www.iggyjingles.blogspot.com
<<<> When I first started investigating Unschooling and mindful parenting,
and to
The "he" I referred to with no identification is my husband. It reads a bit
like Jayn (dd) was the mysterious "he".
Robyn L. Coburn
www.Iggyjingles.etsy.com
www.iggyjingles.blogspot.com
<<<> When I first started investigating Unschooling and mindful parenting,
and to
> be honest I can't remember what I said other than reporting various posts
> at
> different times and leaving out books with short passages marked, I was
> surprised by how much he already understood - deeply and intuitively -
> more
> than me. I often am struck by how elegantly simple he can make it when we
> have conversations.
>
> When he reads about Unschooling, such as the posted signs or book
> passages,
> he always comes away puzzled - not with the content of what he has read,
> because he is saying "Duh!" - but puzzled at what my point was is showing
> it to him. He is usually full of "So? We already do this" remarks. >>>>
Wendy S.
On Feb 23, 2008, at 4:07 PM, Robyn L. Coburn wrote:
realization or read something that resonates so strongly with me, I'll
share it with Clint and he reacts exactly like James. It is
reassuring too. I'll think I wasn't doing that and Clint tells me I
have been. Kinda nice. :-)
Wendy S. in GA
Mom to Shelby, Age 9
http://ourjourneyfantastic.blogspot.com/
Come to the Trust Birth Conference!
March 7-9, 2008 in Redondo Beach, California
www.trustbirthconference.com
****************
BIRTH IS SAFE, INTERVENTION IS RISKY
http://www.trustbirth.com/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> When he reads about Unschooling, such as the posted signs or bookThis happens with us all the time! I'll have this profound
> passages,
> he always comes away puzzled - not with the content of what he has
> read,
> because he is saying "Duh!" - but puzzled at what my point was is
> showing
> it to him. He is usually full of "So? We already do this" remarks.
realization or read something that resonates so strongly with me, I'll
share it with Clint and he reacts exactly like James. It is
reassuring too. I'll think I wasn't doing that and Clint tells me I
have been. Kinda nice. :-)
Wendy S. in GA
Mom to Shelby, Age 9
http://ourjourneyfantastic.blogspot.com/
Come to the Trust Birth Conference!
March 7-9, 2008 in Redondo Beach, California
www.trustbirthconference.com
****************
BIRTH IS SAFE, INTERVENTION IS RISKY
http://www.trustbirth.com/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-That reminds me. I have a question for Sandra. I saw a blurb on
your site about how you disagree with the idea that unschooling
starts at birth, but I've been scratching my head over it ever
since. Have you written about it someplace? -=-
I think I've only written about it in discussions like these, and not
for a long time because I feel like one of the very few who make the
distinction.
There are many facets of my objection to people with pre-verbal, non-
walking babies saying "We're homeschooling," but the main one is that
if a baby is in a stage that the state wouldn't require him to be in
school, the parents are not yet at a point that they know with
certainty that they will not put him in school when he's five or six.
We have enough problems on the lists with families who really,
unquestionably, registered-with-the-state (or whatever) are
homeschooling, and trying to help them get settled in and calm
without spending lots of time on the very speculative mothers of
babies and toddlers who sometimes (perhaps starved for adult contact,
a state I remember) will rattle ON and on and they sometimes have no
experience to add to the conversations and the things we're talking
about don't apply to them, because they have tiny children.
I've had three babies. We were big into attachment parenting. I
think it's fantastic if people ask for attachment parenting advice
because they intend to unschool when the kids are older, but I don't
see any advantage or logic of calling it "unschooling" when school
wasn't even an issue.
The best counter-argument is a regional one. In Delaware and
Maryland and thereabout, lots of people seem to be putting babies in
school at two or three, so it's important for those families to
declare a fancy reason why they're NOT putting their kids in
advanced, accelerated, college-preparatory nursery school. That's
what I've heard from people over the years.
There have been families where much noise was made, much drama
unfolded, much consideration made, and they said they were
unschoolers (without any benefit to other unschoolers by that claim)
and then they bought a curriculum or put a kid in school, so in my
mind, it negates any claim or consideration of unschooling. They
never unschooled a school-aged child. They schooled.
This part's more personal to me, and my preference for people to be
scrupulously honest and open. I count my unschooling from the day
Kirby did not go to kindergarten when he was five, in a state in
which that's expected/required. We could've made him an exception,
so the first year could've been a freebie. We could've put him in
either first or kindergarten the next year, had we not been happy
with the unschooling plan. The district would've been okay taking
him as a six year old kindergartener if we told them we hadn't
thought he was ready the year before.
The kind of attachment parenting and food choices and sleep-when-
sleepy and that, I've done since Kirby was a a baby. It wasn't
unschooling, because we figured he would go to school when he got
older. It was parenting a young child. It's February and Kirby's
21, so I will say I've been unschooling for 17 years. 17.5 years.
I don't like it when someone comes to an unschooling discussion who's
never heard of it before and starts to backdate their unschooling to
birth. I don't like it when someone who started unschooling after I
did redefines her life in some fantasy autobiographical way and with
no change other than a statement, says she's been unschooling since
her kids were born.
It's me. It bugs me in the SCA when people claim to have been in for
five years just because they visited with a friend once. I visited
with friends, went to a meeting, but clearly did NOT join. I'd been
to the organizational meeting of the local group, and while that's
interesting, I joined four years later and was surrounded already by
people making claims to have been in longer than they had just
because they knew about it, or stopped by a practice once where
people weren't even in costume.
It's not a profound, wonderful argument. It has to do with integrity
and practicality.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
your site about how you disagree with the idea that unschooling
starts at birth, but I've been scratching my head over it ever
since. Have you written about it someplace? -=-
I think I've only written about it in discussions like these, and not
for a long time because I feel like one of the very few who make the
distinction.
There are many facets of my objection to people with pre-verbal, non-
walking babies saying "We're homeschooling," but the main one is that
if a baby is in a stage that the state wouldn't require him to be in
school, the parents are not yet at a point that they know with
certainty that they will not put him in school when he's five or six.
We have enough problems on the lists with families who really,
unquestionably, registered-with-the-state (or whatever) are
homeschooling, and trying to help them get settled in and calm
without spending lots of time on the very speculative mothers of
babies and toddlers who sometimes (perhaps starved for adult contact,
a state I remember) will rattle ON and on and they sometimes have no
experience to add to the conversations and the things we're talking
about don't apply to them, because they have tiny children.
I've had three babies. We were big into attachment parenting. I
think it's fantastic if people ask for attachment parenting advice
because they intend to unschool when the kids are older, but I don't
see any advantage or logic of calling it "unschooling" when school
wasn't even an issue.
The best counter-argument is a regional one. In Delaware and
Maryland and thereabout, lots of people seem to be putting babies in
school at two or three, so it's important for those families to
declare a fancy reason why they're NOT putting their kids in
advanced, accelerated, college-preparatory nursery school. That's
what I've heard from people over the years.
There have been families where much noise was made, much drama
unfolded, much consideration made, and they said they were
unschoolers (without any benefit to other unschoolers by that claim)
and then they bought a curriculum or put a kid in school, so in my
mind, it negates any claim or consideration of unschooling. They
never unschooled a school-aged child. They schooled.
This part's more personal to me, and my preference for people to be
scrupulously honest and open. I count my unschooling from the day
Kirby did not go to kindergarten when he was five, in a state in
which that's expected/required. We could've made him an exception,
so the first year could've been a freebie. We could've put him in
either first or kindergarten the next year, had we not been happy
with the unschooling plan. The district would've been okay taking
him as a six year old kindergartener if we told them we hadn't
thought he was ready the year before.
The kind of attachment parenting and food choices and sleep-when-
sleepy and that, I've done since Kirby was a a baby. It wasn't
unschooling, because we figured he would go to school when he got
older. It was parenting a young child. It's February and Kirby's
21, so I will say I've been unschooling for 17 years. 17.5 years.
I don't like it when someone comes to an unschooling discussion who's
never heard of it before and starts to backdate their unschooling to
birth. I don't like it when someone who started unschooling after I
did redefines her life in some fantasy autobiographical way and with
no change other than a statement, says she's been unschooling since
her kids were born.
It's me. It bugs me in the SCA when people claim to have been in for
five years just because they visited with a friend once. I visited
with friends, went to a meeting, but clearly did NOT join. I'd been
to the organizational meeting of the local group, and while that's
interesting, I joined four years later and was surrounded already by
people making claims to have been in longer than they had just
because they knew about it, or stopped by a practice once where
people weren't even in costume.
It's not a profound, wonderful argument. It has to do with integrity
and practicality.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Laureen
Heya!
On Sat, Feb 23, 2008 at 5:06 PM, Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
> I think I've only written about it in discussions like these, and not
> for a long time because I feel like one of the very few who make the
> distinction.
How fun. I've been feeling very lonely about this.
> This part's more personal to me, and my preference for people to be
> scrupulously honest and open. I count my unschooling from the day
> Kirby did not go to kindergarten when he was five, in a state in
> which that's expected/required.
I have been fighting this for a while, and have kind of given up in
exhaustion, having other, better battles to fight. I started exploring
our options as a family for Rowan's schooling when he was three or so,
and naturally as he's grown up, the pressure has come on, and on, and
on harder, about labelling ourselves. Are we homeschoolers?
Unschoolers? What's our tribe, our affiliation, are we an "us" to be
embraced, or are we a "them" to be argued with or avoided?
We're in California, and as per the law, I'll be filing our first R-4
this October 1st, the year he'll be 6 by December. But up until that
moment, I still say when it comes up in live conversation, "we're not
schooling anything... he's little. We're doing kid stuff, you know,
playing?"
I find it really sad that that is hard even for folks exploring school
alternatives to accept. And here's what I wrote about that:
http://lifewithoutschool.typepad.com/lifewithoutschool/2007/11/bucket-free.html
--
~~L!
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