Re: [AlwaysLearning] New to unschooling
Alan & Brenda Leonard
Hi, Pam and whoever else had asked about a typical day recently,
Pam, leave your hair in your head, unschooling works just fine. You already
know a lot about it, unless you're like my mother who thought that every
minute needed to be educational.
Do you know how to go on vacation? Do you like going to the zoo, a muesum
or two, or outside for a hike? How about lazy Saturdays at home with
nothing on the agenda except to relax? If you can do these things, guess
what -- this is your new life! This IS unschooling, if you do it all day,
every day.
I'm sorry that your son is not so happy these days. It will probably take
him some time to get used to the new freedom to do what he wants to do;
that's called deschooling. He may watch lots of TV or play computer games
all day. Smile, watch with him, have him show you how far he's gotten on
the games, bake cookies, and feed him periodically.
Eventually, he's either going to get interested in something other than the
TV and computer games, or he'll take them to a whole new level and spend all
his time trying to figure out how to beat the system. Either of those
things will be educational. I don't have a little gamer, but many people
have written eloquently on how much kids can learn from them, if you visit
sandradodd.com
Here is my day, typical or not. I have one son, six years old. He decided
that multiplication tables were interesting and decided to create one. He
only likes number adding, he tells me, and will never learn subtraction. I
said ok. Last year he didn't like numbers over 20, and now can count to
1,000 (and did so one day) so I figured this, too, shall pass. He drew
little American flags for his teddy bears to hold, shelled fresh green peas,
played solitare and rummy, watched me make brownies, worked on the problem
steps in his tap dance routine, bounced around to music, attempted to puzzle
out why yellow-green and green-yellow colored pencils (and other colors like
that) are so different, and whined about being bored in between. He also
informed me that he's never ever going to school because it's SO boring. I
said ok to that, too!
He's not much of a TV watcher, but yesterday he watched Lord of the Rings on
DVD again, so he also raced around fighting imaginary orcs and goblins
today.
I planned a week of menus, wrote a grocery list, played rummy until I
couldn't stand it any more, answered multiplication questions, worked on my
brownie recipe (it came from a friend and was so good but way too rich, so
I'm adapting it), made several snacks (we never got around to a meal before
dinner) and eventually made dinner, taught a violin lesson, etc. Some of my
things involved hiim, some didn't. I answered the usual running list of
questions as best as I could, read email, and googled a couple things to
find answers for "Curious Tim".
Guess that's a pretty typical day, the kind Tim really likes because we
didn't go anywhere. He's very much a homebody. Your son who dislikes
everything about school sounds like a great candidate for unschooling! Good
luck with it!
brenda
3/17/03 21:53:
Pam, leave your hair in your head, unschooling works just fine. You already
know a lot about it, unless you're like my mother who thought that every
minute needed to be educational.
Do you know how to go on vacation? Do you like going to the zoo, a muesum
or two, or outside for a hike? How about lazy Saturdays at home with
nothing on the agenda except to relax? If you can do these things, guess
what -- this is your new life! This IS unschooling, if you do it all day,
every day.
I'm sorry that your son is not so happy these days. It will probably take
him some time to get used to the new freedom to do what he wants to do;
that's called deschooling. He may watch lots of TV or play computer games
all day. Smile, watch with him, have him show you how far he's gotten on
the games, bake cookies, and feed him periodically.
Eventually, he's either going to get interested in something other than the
TV and computer games, or he'll take them to a whole new level and spend all
his time trying to figure out how to beat the system. Either of those
things will be educational. I don't have a little gamer, but many people
have written eloquently on how much kids can learn from them, if you visit
sandradodd.com
Here is my day, typical or not. I have one son, six years old. He decided
that multiplication tables were interesting and decided to create one. He
only likes number adding, he tells me, and will never learn subtraction. I
said ok. Last year he didn't like numbers over 20, and now can count to
1,000 (and did so one day) so I figured this, too, shall pass. He drew
little American flags for his teddy bears to hold, shelled fresh green peas,
played solitare and rummy, watched me make brownies, worked on the problem
steps in his tap dance routine, bounced around to music, attempted to puzzle
out why yellow-green and green-yellow colored pencils (and other colors like
that) are so different, and whined about being bored in between. He also
informed me that he's never ever going to school because it's SO boring. I
said ok to that, too!
He's not much of a TV watcher, but yesterday he watched Lord of the Rings on
DVD again, so he also raced around fighting imaginary orcs and goblins
today.
I planned a week of menus, wrote a grocery list, played rummy until I
couldn't stand it any more, answered multiplication questions, worked on my
brownie recipe (it came from a friend and was so good but way too rich, so
I'm adapting it), made several snacks (we never got around to a meal before
dinner) and eventually made dinner, taught a violin lesson, etc. Some of my
things involved hiim, some didn't. I answered the usual running list of
questions as best as I could, read email, and googled a couple things to
find answers for "Curious Tim".
Guess that's a pretty typical day, the kind Tim really likes because we
didn't go anywhere. He's very much a homebody. Your son who dislikes
everything about school sounds like a great candidate for unschooling! Good
luck with it!
brenda
3/17/03 21:53:
> Hi, my name is Pam. I know nothing about unschooling, but its got to
> work or Im going to start pulling my hair out. We went to public
> schools for 3 yrs. and 1 month homeschooling and thats not working.
> I have a 7 yr. old that was at one time a happy child now not so
> happy. He dislikes everything about school. So I took him out and
> started hs him. He doesnt like that either and I stay stress alot.
> Im not sure how it goes but I will figure it out. We have lots of
> fun together and thats good. Any advice you all can give I thank you
> for it. Also, this is to Kate. It brought tears to my eyes
> too. Thank You Pam
Alan & Brenda Leonard
3/18/03 09:06:
something kids needs to quit doing. I think they're the ones that get old
faster, personally.
you can always lower your standards, too. That helps a lot!
brenda
> This is going to be fun. I maybe 51 yrs old but canMany grownups forget that fun is good and start to think that fun is bad and
> still be a kid.
something kids needs to quit doing. I think they're the ones that get old
faster, personally.
> What great excuse for getting out of housework.You still have to occasionally do housework, I'm sorry to say. Of course,
you can always lower your standards, too. That helps a lot!
brenda
lmoyer67
Hello all,
I am new and learning more & more everyday; just reading your posts and online and books. I have 4 children (one in college and one in 3rd grade public)and a 12 yr.old son & 16 yr old daugher(unschooling) My son is very intersted in video games and I see alot of learning with him so I'm not worried but my daughter ( whom I homeschooled K-3 then sent to public from 4-10 grades) I am concerned with. Has had depression and other struggles in the past... She is definitly deschooling...I have no idea how to help her.
She really only wants to be with friends and go out, sleep in late, watch TV, be lazy(her words) I have suggested that we all make a vision board for fun and this will help us explore our interests...she is working on this but other than that how do I encourage her to seek her intersts without pushing her?
We live in Pa and do have Homeschooling laws that we submit a portfoliop etc...in subject areas...
Thank you for any ideas or suggestions
Laura
I am new and learning more & more everyday; just reading your posts and online and books. I have 4 children (one in college and one in 3rd grade public)and a 12 yr.old son & 16 yr old daugher(unschooling) My son is very intersted in video games and I see alot of learning with him so I'm not worried but my daughter ( whom I homeschooled K-3 then sent to public from 4-10 grades) I am concerned with. Has had depression and other struggles in the past... She is definitly deschooling...I have no idea how to help her.
She really only wants to be with friends and go out, sleep in late, watch TV, be lazy(her words) I have suggested that we all make a vision board for fun and this will help us explore our interests...she is working on this but other than that how do I encourage her to seek her intersts without pushing her?
We live in Pa and do have Homeschooling laws that we submit a portfoliop etc...in subject areas...
Thank you for any ideas or suggestions
Laura
Sandra Dodd
-=-She really only wants to be with friends and go out, sleep in late, watch TV, be lazy(her words) I have suggested that we all make a vision board for fun and this will help us explore our interests...she is working on this but other than that how do I encourage her to seek her intersts without pushing her? -=-
"Vision boards" aren't the best tool for unschooling in the whole, big real world. It's like making secret wishes at home instead of actually living. Conversations are better. Side-by-side conversations can be the best sometimes with teens: http://sandradodd.com/truck
Try to spend time with her, just the two of you, if you can, sometimes.
-=-Has had depression and other struggles in the past... She is definitly deschooling...I have no idea how to help her. She really only wants to be with friends and go out, sleep in late, watch TV, be lazy(her words)-=-
Has she only been out of school for one year?
If she's prone to depression, she's probably better off at home than around a ton of angsty teens.
-=-how do I encourage her to seek her intersts without pushing her? -=-
Don't think of it as "seeking her interests."
She might not have a burning interest, and she can still learn a ton.
She's watching tv; does she also look at videos? Maybe you can fill your portfolio with things she's looked up or watched or listened to. Has she tried audio books? "The Help" is particularly good (the audio book is better than the movie, and better than the book, because they do the right accents). That could be American history/civil rights/ women's movement, and literature.
Don't expect her to provide her own interesting life. That's your job. If she's been out of school a full year, start looking at what she's doing. If it has not been a year yet, don't press her in any way.
These things might help:
http://sandradodd.com/teen/angst
http://learninghappens.wordpress.com/2011/09/24/unschooling-is-not-child-led-learning/
http://sandradodd.com/movies (maybe you could watch movies together)
http://sandradodd.com/tv
Sandra
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"Vision boards" aren't the best tool for unschooling in the whole, big real world. It's like making secret wishes at home instead of actually living. Conversations are better. Side-by-side conversations can be the best sometimes with teens: http://sandradodd.com/truck
Try to spend time with her, just the two of you, if you can, sometimes.
-=-Has had depression and other struggles in the past... She is definitly deschooling...I have no idea how to help her. She really only wants to be with friends and go out, sleep in late, watch TV, be lazy(her words)-=-
Has she only been out of school for one year?
If she's prone to depression, she's probably better off at home than around a ton of angsty teens.
-=-how do I encourage her to seek her intersts without pushing her? -=-
Don't think of it as "seeking her interests."
She might not have a burning interest, and she can still learn a ton.
She's watching tv; does she also look at videos? Maybe you can fill your portfolio with things she's looked up or watched or listened to. Has she tried audio books? "The Help" is particularly good (the audio book is better than the movie, and better than the book, because they do the right accents). That could be American history/civil rights/ women's movement, and literature.
Don't expect her to provide her own interesting life. That's your job. If she's been out of school a full year, start looking at what she's doing. If it has not been a year yet, don't press her in any way.
These things might help:
http://sandradodd.com/teen/angst
http://learninghappens.wordpress.com/2011/09/24/unschooling-is-not-child-led-learning/
http://sandradodd.com/movies (maybe you could watch movies together)
http://sandradodd.com/tv
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
barbaramatessa
> -=-Has had depression and other struggles in the past... She is definitly deschooling...I have no idea how to help her. She really only wants to be with friends and go out, sleep in late, watch TV, be lazy(her words)-=-I wonder how any teen who is schooled in our authoritarian, mainstream culture, and happens to be a sensitive person, can survive their teens without becoming depressed.
>
> Has she only been out of school for one year?
I started the habit of depression in my teens and only recently feel that I'm breaking out of it (at age 37). What has helped me is an accumulation of empowered, healthy choices, and experiencing "success" on my own terms. Deschooling has been the most wonderful antidote to my depression--it's still sinking in that I can create the life I want to live, and help my kids to do the same. Nightly, I am devouring Sandra's webpages, and am finding that my daytime thoughts are more open to possibility and joy.
I used to worry that my son would inherit my family's legacy of depression, but now I know that as long as he knows he is the agent of his own life, as long as he knows he has choices, he will not feel trapped in depression.
I'm sure this analogy has been brought up on this board before, but you know the experiments where scientists shock rats on an unpredictable basis? After a while, they don't try to move or fight the shocks anymore, even when the cage door is open for them to escape. They've learned helplessness.
Depression is a form of helplessness. Your daughter can learn that she can create her own wonderful life on her own terms, but she may need a little help. If your relationship is a good one, perhaps you could travel together. Perhaps she could travel with someone else?
What do you imagine that she would find fun, or what did she used to find fun? Do that!
Barbara
Sandra Dodd
-=-I used to worry that my son would inherit my family's legacy of depression, but now I know that as long as he knows he is the agent of his own life, as long as he knows he has choices, he will not feel trapped in depression. -=-
"Depression" is a word that names more than one state and cause.
If the family's legacy of depression is to live like Eeyore, to be cynical and critical and not to express any giddiness or joy (maybe because since childhood that was discouraged and extinguished, then yes--finding choices and joy can begin to undo that, and if everyone in the family is willing to go out of the cage and stop administering those shocks to each other about being out here, the whole group might get to the point that they no longer have that legacy of depression and negativity.
If the legacy, though, is a genetic tendency away from a flatness and even-keeled personality, that's different. Some people are never very excited, but the other side of that is that they're never very distressed or depressed.
It does seem that a person's capacity for exuberance comes with a corresponding low.
Part of "clinical depression" can be mistaking that low for a permanent state, and assuming that the world has become dark and helpless because there used to be sparkly excitement, and now there's not.
What used to be called manic depression and is now called "bi-polar disorder" is present in LOTS of people, in lesser or greater degrees, but whatever the "poles" are or the degree of mania and depression, they seem to be related. It's biochemistry that people don't understand well yet.
Even people with low lows, though, can benefit from remembering that the high highs will return. And those who have no high high to look foward to won't get depressed about it. :-)
My quick advice about all that, being a person with ups and down and having a couple of kids that way (and one who isn't) is to be grateful for the energetic phase and get some cool things done, and accept the lower times without wallowing (don't watch depressing movies or listen to suicide-inducing music, or watch the news).
http://sandradodd.com/negativity
That's helpful for any family, even the cheery ones, or those with the most stable of temperaments.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
"Depression" is a word that names more than one state and cause.
If the family's legacy of depression is to live like Eeyore, to be cynical and critical and not to express any giddiness or joy (maybe because since childhood that was discouraged and extinguished, then yes--finding choices and joy can begin to undo that, and if everyone in the family is willing to go out of the cage and stop administering those shocks to each other about being out here, the whole group might get to the point that they no longer have that legacy of depression and negativity.
If the legacy, though, is a genetic tendency away from a flatness and even-keeled personality, that's different. Some people are never very excited, but the other side of that is that they're never very distressed or depressed.
It does seem that a person's capacity for exuberance comes with a corresponding low.
Part of "clinical depression" can be mistaking that low for a permanent state, and assuming that the world has become dark and helpless because there used to be sparkly excitement, and now there's not.
What used to be called manic depression and is now called "bi-polar disorder" is present in LOTS of people, in lesser or greater degrees, but whatever the "poles" are or the degree of mania and depression, they seem to be related. It's biochemistry that people don't understand well yet.
Even people with low lows, though, can benefit from remembering that the high highs will return. And those who have no high high to look foward to won't get depressed about it. :-)
My quick advice about all that, being a person with ups and down and having a couple of kids that way (and one who isn't) is to be grateful for the energetic phase and get some cool things done, and accept the lower times without wallowing (don't watch depressing movies or listen to suicide-inducing music, or watch the news).
http://sandradodd.com/negativity
That's helpful for any family, even the cheery ones, or those with the most stable of temperaments.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]