Feedback on Sandra Dodd's Unschooling Writings

Feedback on Sandra Dodd's Unschooling Writings
also candid commentary found elsewhere, and criticism

Some of this is about this site alone. Some is about discussion lists. There is feedback specifically about the UnschoolingDiscussion here, most of which was posted in public. Some of that was to and about me alone, but not all of it. —Sandra Dodd

REVIEW OF THE SITE in honor of its being named Parenting Resource of the Month, February 2007, by The Natural Child Project.

The quotes below are mostly excerpted from e-mail, or paper mail (thank you notes) and a few were more public.

[of Always Learning] I believe I've joined and left this list several times starting in 2006. Each time I rejoined, I was in a little bit different place in unschooling. I have been offended many times on this list, even to the point of tears. Then after thinking about it for a while, I realized it was because I was facing something that needed to be addressed. I can honestly say that I've grown more as a person, parent and unschooler due to the discussions on this list than on any other list I've been on.

Discussions on [Always Learning] (and Unschooling Discussion) have sometimes taken me aback or made me uncomfortable but have *always* helped me to think more clearly, examine myself and those "mindless thoughts" more closely.

When I move thru your site, I feel like a child in a candy store, or like I'm in a fantastic meandering castle with hidden secret rooms and magic doors to new realities.

I've been reading your unschooling writings for around five years or so, being simultaneously terrified and attracted. Well, less terrified and more attracted as time goes by. Thank you.

Thanks again for your fabulous site Sandra...I hadn't looked on there for a while, but needed to find some info about "late" readers, and there it was.

Hi Sandra, I am one of the many mothers whose life and family's lives has radically improved due to your generosity and dedication.

Aloha Sandra, / I thought I'd send you a copy of an essay I wrote for a school assignment in which I used quotes from your site to back up my argument. / Thanks for being there .. and for sharing your good sense. / A fan...[name]

I just wanted to take the opportunity to tell you THANK YOU for all the work you do to help people understand unschooling. It is so rare to find people who understand what we are doing, let alone support it. Reading your Yahoo group Always Learning (along with the happiness I see in my son) helps me have the courage to keep unschooling. I'm usually a few weeks behind reading posts so I don't post much but I'm there lurking, learning, and appreciating.
Barbara

Yo soy super fan de Sandra; es una mujer con la que se tienen debates muy interesantes. (From comments following a translation of "Respect" here)

I love how your website is like unschooling webified, lol. It has pages flowing all over the place, almost anything someone wants to know or learn about can be found there, it's awesome. So, thank you for the time and effort you've put into it. —Jen

I just want to thank you Sandra, every time I have doubts or worries, I come here and feel refreshed.

[I]f it had not been for your articles and for the messages you posted on this board, I don't know if I would be unschooling right now. You really 'brought it home for me' so to speak. Our unschooling is working for us more and more each day, with no real 'work' involved!

Angie, there, near the end

Dear Sandra,

I cannot thank you enough for your website. Your obvious labor of love is helping me every day. Its my daily 10 minute fix during the time it takes for my 2 year old to settle into my lap for her naptime. I have been a reader off and on pretty much hovering around the TO TV or not to... etc or meals etc... part of the site.... for about 2 years. (As i explored montessoris, waldorf, homeschooling etc) But the conditioning that had me in its grip has been slipping away slowly and surely. Finally.... WE ARE HAVING FUN.

We love unschooling/life-learning and are just joyous almost all the time. learning, playing, working... not sure what the difference is any more. Its been a little over 3 months... and as my ds turns 5 and dd turns 2.... dh and i have never had a better time as a family. Surprising how in tune with myself i am these days. I used to struggle to parent... and now i don't.

We are deschooling big time and your essays are helping me immensely. We recently moved from NJ to Singapore and are now on our way to India... so its been a crazy time for all of us... but with unschooling everything is relaxed, playful and there is no stress. My parenting-life, learning, art, writing, reading are all connected better.

Just really want to share my joy with some one who appreciates this way of life so much. Thank you for sharing thru your sites. They are indescribably helpful and inspirational to me.

Love, Hema
PS: I have yet to read your book... but i love that title. So the other day when jumping in some puddles my son said "we can move puddles by channeling water"... I knew i had to write a thank you :-)

I just wanted to take a minute to email you. I LOVE reading everything on this group and your website. My daughter isn't even 2 yet, but when I read about you and all the other families out there living this way I get so excited. This way of life is so exciting and appealing to me. I love that it unschooling is a choice I never thought of before a few months ago but now every day I am more and more sure that all of the ideas presented by you and others contain keys to help me build a life more joyful and fulfilling than I ever imagined with my husband, daughter, and future children.

thank you!!!
Susan May

We don't know each other, but I read your blog a lot and love reading your posts on the AlwaysLearning list. You've (unknowingly) done a lot to help me become the kind of mom I want to be.

I've said it before but I'll tell you again, your writings on lists, your website and your book as well as seeing you speak at two L&L Conferences has changed my and more importantly my children's lives so much for the better that I don't think I can ever thank you enough.

Gushingly,
Chris in IA

I've been thinking a lot lately about how fun and wonderful our lives have become. Just walking through a store the other day, my heart felt like it would burst with joy. All we were doing was holding hands and talking! Anyway, I owe it to this list, to you. I am so proud of the family we have become. —Amy

I was one of those people who was "offended" by Sandra awhile back. That's because she is upfront and honest and immediately holds up a mirror and I wasn't used to that nor was I ready to see what the reflection staring back at me. Awhile ago I went back and reread some things that had been written to me months later and laughed because they were in no way, shape or form offensive! I was only offended because it was *my* issue....

... *I* certainly respect Sandra and all the other veteran unschoolers on this board. Without them my family would probably still be in shambles. Because of them, our lives are infinitely enriched with laughter and connection and love. I owe them an awful lot for their "rudeness".

Tara, on AlwaysLearning, March 2008

I really like that you know where you stand, what you're doing and that you're not trying to be all things to all people. :) That's refreshing!

Sandra: Just happened upon your blog. You have been my quiet inspiration for many years. Your words gave me the understanding and courage to say no, not only to school, but to the idea of "school" at home. My kids are 19, 18 and 14 now. What a great trip it's been and still is.

So...after all these years, thank you for quietly being a part of my family's life even though you never knew.

Many thanks and tons of gratitude:
Kim (3/08)

It's quite a thrill to see my name and my stories on YOUR page ;-) Thanks so much for all you do to help others "get" unschooling.

Kate

...a note of thanks for your work, your site, your book, your conviction!

I love to read.... In parenting, the greatest and most meaningful influences have been John Holt, Charlotte Mason, and Sandra Dodd's emails.

Always Learning is my favorite board, it keeps me on track. You’ve helped me in so many ways. I truly appreciate you and your generosity of time and energy for people who want to get this and get it right.

Thanks.

I just wanted to thank you for your website. It is truly a wonderful resource for me and many others I have talked to. You are such a shining example for the rest of who still have work to do!

[This was an e-card, and I kinda feared to open it because I didn't recognize the name, but I am SO GLAD I did!!! the art was a flash movie of a lighthouse, and words appeared: "Thank you for showing me the light."]

Chitra here from India.
Wish you a grand New Year!
Your website proved to be a big boon to me, when I was unable to decide.
I can never thank you enough for the great work you do!
May God bless you with health and happiness in bounty!
Today for the first time, my daughter(6years) did something which I did not teach her - she prepared an official invoice by herself. she had observed it from our office staff and tried it today. The first glimpse of the miracle of homeschooling, i witnessed!
I wanted to share it with you first and thank you - b'cos when I was worried and nobody supported my decision to homeschool, it was your website I stumbled upon.
And got my confidence.
Thank you.
lots of hugs - chitra

I actually enjoyed your error page! It gave me confidence to guess that you meant "math" instead of "maty" and I tried again successfully. Probably the coolest error page I have encountered. : ) — Julie

I just have to say you never cease to amaze me! i just LOVED this post! You have such a way with words ,but more importantly, you really really know what you are talking about :)

What a delight it is to read your info. I appreciate all the thought and help you put into helping us moms.....and kids!!!!

Thanks for having such a wonderful site and for being such a strong and honest presence on the Unschooling Discussion list. I respect your no-holds-bar approach to answering people. It probably doesn't hurt that I completely agree! :) You've really helped me see that it does no good to my children for me to be a better parent later, it only does them good for me to be a better mother now. I knew this deep-down, but I appreciate hearing it regularly on the Unschooling Discussion list. I think parents get complacent sometimes and that doesn't do anyone any good. I don't think you get thanked enough. You are really, every day, changing the world for the better!

I will be forever grateful to people like Sandra Dodd and Pam Sorooshian for putting information about radical unschooling out there, for living it and for continuing to write about it. Our lives are changed forever and definitely for the better. Of course we have day-to-day crap like everyone else but life with my kid is so much more fun and peaceful than I ever thought it could be! (more)

Candid Commentary "Sandra was really, really nice and Saren had a great time playing with Holly and her other friends at the pool..."
"Enter Sandra Dodd, goddess of all that is Radical Unschooling.
Sandra Dodd is a true inspiration to me. She lives her life purely and raises her children the same way..."
"Today I finished reading Sandra Dodd’s “Moving a Puddle, and other essays”. There were quite a lot of inspiring messages, and I felt really excited about all the possibilities ahead of us."
"I printed off a bunch of papers last night to read by Sandra Dodd. www.sandradodd.com She has a lot of interesting thoughts on unschooling."
...—what Sandra Dodd called Leaning on a Truck or Parallel Play—or CS Lewis talked about as friendship—"
... And other times when I read Sandra Dodd and think YES, I grok that, I'm an unschooler!
... this morning an article, Deschooling for Parents, by Sandra Dodd came to me. She says, "The more quickly you empty your cup and open yourself up to new ideas uncritically, the sooner you will see natural learning blossom." I needed to hear that.

sandra dodd's website helped immensely. especially the section on food issues. it opened my eyes wide.
I had the Sandra Dodd "connections" page open on the laptop today...
Marin loaned me Sandra Dodd's book, Moving A Puddle and I've been reading that for a couple of days. It's been interesting...

...[S]he mentioned you a blog post about gratitude that I thought was really nice. If you want to check it out it's here: http://barn-raising.blogspot.com/2007/11/gratitude-day-two-unschooling.html

There are a lot of us who are very thankful for you and your work :)

Before I crawl back under my rock, let me take this opportunity to publically thank you and the others on this list who so selflessly provide support and advice and concrete ways to apply unschooling to every facet of our lives. You do it so willingly and so thoughtfully. I wonder if you will ever know how many lives you've affected in the most positive ways.

"I just wanted to say that at times i was really put off by things you've said, because I was reading I guess just a little too superficially, and now as I am finally getting the feel of where your philosophy or principles come from, I am seeing how in line they are with my own...
and I am so happy to see a group of people living as I wish and am striving to live..." (ellipses were in the original)

I wrote and thanked someone for sending a post for me to use, and she responded:

Thank YOU! Your website is invaluable-thanks for going the extra mile and organizing all these nuggets and gems into one BIG treasure chest, for all of us to sift through whenever we need to feel that unschooling "richness"!!

I must admit, I came to your site out of curiosity after reading some negative stuff on another forum. I wanted to "see for myself" who this woman was, who was only talked about in hushed tones (almost like Harry Potter's Voldemort). After reading some Unschoolingdiscussion archives on yahoo, your site, and some you link to, all I have to say is
KEEP UP THE GREAT WORK!!!!!
I was reading all this with rapt attention and have been inspired by alot of it.

When I was reading your website, at the beginning, and your lists, and the other lists, sometimes, I was crying, crying.. It was good tears, really. Like something so deep in me, you touched something in my heart, I can't explain.. It was like a new family..

Sylvie, in France

Last year, I wrote for the first time explaining my family's situation. You wrote back and your post changed our lives. It'll be our one year anniversary in the next week or two, of the kids being home and I've just been thinking that alot lately. . . . I thought you might like to know your advice didn't fall on deaf ears, that the effort and energy you put out is really effecting the world in such a positive way—every day!—and how grateful I am that you take the time to do what you do.

My biggest thanks to you is that you constantly challenge me to "think outside the box". Thanks for being around and being patient with me and others! You're truly unique.

Thanks for making it easier for me to do what feels right.

I often hear Sandra's voice in my head and it's always one of honesty, reason and truth. There isn't a day that goes by as I look at our unschooling lives that I don't say a silent "thank you" for her words, her commitment and the difference in my children's lives because of our connection. So thanks from this part of the world too. The words and ideas she shares make our world better every day.

Thank you all to all who share your time and energy helping people like me *get it*. —Rachel wrote more, you can read it here.

I'm anxious to go through your aticles. I've read all your articles on the CHORES during my sept vacation and it helped a ton! My daughter helps out so much more now that she isn't on a regular list ...and there is much healing coming into our lives, healing and peace and I cannot share what joy we've all found now.

Lisa

Thanks for all your experience, strength and "tough love" on us in your group. You've opened my eyes so, so much. I know if my dd knew how much freedom and respect your guidance has given her through me she'd say Thank You too.

Missi

Thanks so much ,
You are a breath of fresh air !
Ellyn

CRITICISM

In the interest of balance and fairness, I've had critics.

SECOND-HAND CRITICISM, interestingly turned:

If you are considering unschooling, please visit Sandra Dodd's site. I've found it to be very informative and helpful.
(That sounds positive, but all around it are quotes of criticism of "humanism" and other problems people on that site had with unschooling ideas.)

I know many have written to me complaining about her style- she’s too gruff, she is mean, she is condescending, she is harsh… wah wah wah. She is also RIGHT almost all of the time!source

NEWER (and some of the older things have been moved from here to the link below)

I just wanted to say I agree with you 100%. I happen to like the term horseshit quite well. Very fitting actually. Have you ever been over to Sandra’s unschoolers forum? If not you really should go check it out. A friend of mine sent me a link to it a couple of weeks ago because she got completely bashed there for making a suggestiong regarding healthy food. I thought that in this day and age nothing could shock me. I was wrong. Horseshit on top of horseshit smoothered in horseshit. in context, and I took names out because I'm nicer than they are. Nobody was bashed here. Maybe she meant on a list. And even then, I think some people interpret anything short of "OOOOH! What a good iDEEah" to be bashing.

(Most criticism; some defense of ideas.)

MORE DIRECT:

I myself have had a recent disillusion regarding Unschooling, or more appropriately…Sandra Dodd’s particular interpretation and representation of the idea, mindset, and practice (the truth of which will not be found on her website but must be discovered through interaction with her). To be more precise, I now question and doubt her representation of it in the face of her inability to afford other adults the same courtesy, respect, and space that she claims we should all give to children.

More of that, but it's much misrepresentation

I am NOT recommending her in the slightest. She's likely done more damage to new unschooling families than anyone else I can think of—though if you're curious, go look at UnschoolingDiscussion (because there can be only one) now at google's groups.

Her stance is much like that of African witch doctors who offer their clients potions and ablutions to ward off machete blows and gunfire: if you have a problem, it's your fault for having not followed the one true path.

Blech.

(on a list I'm not on)

Oh geez, she scared the bejeesus out of me, I've never been treated so rudely on an email list before. I did go over her website, though and she does have interesting stuff on it but she takes a lot of pleasure in being condenscending to newbies or just plain mean and her rabid followers are the same way. How can someone who touts respect and love be so nasty to fellow adults? I don't get it, I just lurk on her list anymore and look for info that is helpful to me. I wouldn't spend any money or exert any effort to read her stuff, though—she seems very hypocritical to me.

I completely disagree with putting all your energy into making your children happy, and quite franky, putting all your energy into making your children happy has absolutely NOTHING to do with unschooling. I see by your links that you see yourself as some kind of unschooling prophet but honestly, no-one gets to define unschooling for anyone else. There is a loosely held definition of "child-led learning" that many of us incorporate into a lifestyle of accepting that our children can find their own limits in life, but honestly, doing whatever it takes (putting maximum energy) to make a child happy is not unschooling. (on the Live and Learn list)

There's one too rude to leave here. It has "the F word." Read it only if you're brave. It's here. (I'll add other rudeness there to keep this page from getting too long.)

Those who don't think I'm the devil have been called "Sandranistas," "Doddites" and "Doddoheads," by people who claimed I was scary and rude.

There have been some fabrications created to discredit me too. http://sandradodd.com/detractors

Things you have said directly to me on the lists, and through your writings, have helped me to overcome a serious depression and stop being so concerned about myself but rather being more of a mother to my children, and given me strength to work on things with my husband rather than give up...

Sandra, thank you for being you; for your writings, your postings to me and to the unschooling groups. You've challenged me to think, to see things in different ways, and to BE who I want to be as a person and as a parent. I truly appreciate it!

Elizabeth Roberts

I feel deeply grateful to be in contact with you, to share insights and your sparkling writings are a fount of inspiration for me!!

Jeanne, in Switzerland

Thanks for putting up your unschooling site. Yours was the first unschooling information I ever saw, and I remember feeling incredibly free and happy when I read about "Grover and the Everything in the Whole Wide World Museum." I realized that there was an alternative to school or school-at-home that would be fun and joyful and true to me and my family.

Rinnyboo

In 1997 I started reading. I read lots of folks and I don't remember when I first read Sandra's writings but I do remember what I felt when I first read them. Hopeful, inspired, hungry. I looked for things she'd written because everything spoke to me, everything, and I had already read John Holt but here was a mom, talking plainly about her family, talking lovingly about her kids, admitting openly her mistakes. This was so powerful to me because although I think we were *natural* unschoolers, I had something more to ponder at night as I lay awake wondering "why did I say that today" or "why didn't I say this". I had idea's about being better tomorrow and better the next day and a better parent to my son. . . . . She has this big idea that the lives of children can be joyous and hopeful and that's a remarkable thing. That it extends beyond her own children and reaches out to all of ours, just like that, just that easily if we care to listen is real, true unschooling help.

Deb L

[H]er clear, concise, very uncompromising beliefs in unschooling have changed my and my children's lives forever. I love that she'll tell me straight forward what she thinks, not what she thinks I want to hear. It's a rare quality in this world, and one I value greatly.

Ren

Public criticism, and a response (from AlwaysLearning, 2/24/08):
I do not missunderstand your intentions Sandra, they are good but sometimes you do turn people off. So you are actually doing their children no good. Just a thought...
Anyways you are not a missionary and I agree, if I dont want to be here I dont need to be. That was not my point, I know how to get myself off. However it might not hurt you to consider some of your actions and how they make people feel; it feels like a devastating personal affront- and some parents might give up unschooling altogether.
Sandra's bluntness is what got me beyond the 'learning' part of unschooling and really focusing on being nicer to my kids and having the unschooling principles spill over into all aspects of my life.

I've been reading her stuff since the AOL days, when my kids were babies. There were times I thought she was totally nuts, that I'd NEVER do that with my kids (ie not require chores, for example). However, I refrained from telling her why *I* thought chores were important (teach kids responsibility, they're part of the family so they should help out, basically beliefs instilled in my by my parents). But I kept reading even though I disagreed.

Heck, once I think she even ticked me off (not personally, but said something to someone whose ideas I agreed with). I thought about her post for days. Weeks. MONTHS. And then, AHA!!! I got it!!

Over time, it all started to make sense. She wasn't crazy , and her ideas (and Pam's, & Joyce's and others) really started to make total sense. It was a gradual process, but one I'm glad I understood while my kids were still little.

If Sandra wasn't so direct, it might have taken me far longer to totally 'get it.'

Sandra, I thought about you this morning as I was brushing my teeth, trying not to be so loud as to wake the two youngest kids, who still co-sleep. At one time I was on a list that you're on and you mentioned that, because you placed a value on sleep, your house had a rule about no loud noises, such as vacuuming, before noon. For some reason that stuck in my head, probably because I need to live on a routine/schedule so that my body is happy, but I'm daily consciously striving to not arbitrarily regulate my family's lives as much I need mine to be. We are extremely busy and active, with four kids ranging from 14 to 3, so most of the day someone is needing to go somewhere, but this morning we had nowhere to go, so I was able to just let them get the sleep their little bodies needed, even though it was waaaaay later than *I* thought necessary. I looked around and thought, "Oh, man, all I need to do is vacuum the entire downstairs and the house will be at least visually tidy, but the boys are sleeping..." and then I thought of you and made peace with the thought that it would be much better for them to remain healthy than for me to vacuum at that moment. When they did wake up, we had a huge tickle fight before breakfast, which was infinitely better than them waking crankily to the sound of the vacuum. So...thanks!

I'm grateful for you, Sandra. I don't think that I could have enjoyed my kids, my family, my life, as much without reading your posts here and other places over the years. I would have freaked a few years back when my daughter told me she wanted me to go with her to talk to a doc about The Pill, freaked when Owen decided his bedtime is 4:00AM, freaked when Jesse played Guitar Hero for hours at a time. I didn't actually need a bracelet, but asked myself, "WWSD ?" until it started to come more naturally to me. :)Thank you.

This one came to me third hand, from someone in California, who got it from someone in New York, who wasn't the author:

I love Sandra Dodd's site, too. Also Joyce Fetterol's: http://joyfullyrejoycing.com/. She has a lot of stuff about not restricting tv, etc. It has improved my relationship with my children incredibly to remove parent imposed restrictions on games and videos. As the only real lasting influence I feel I can have on any other person is through a good relationship- this is totally key to my parenting. In addition, I believe real learning can be found everywhere. And yes, my children do do other things!!