the second Food Chat

March 4th, 2009

RVB: You can use ice trays, covered with foil to stick popsicle sticks into, too.

reneecabatic: Xander freezes anything in any plastic container and then uses a fork to scrape it out and eat

AussieTammy: then the other thing I worry about is that "all" they're eating is ice blocks, which is really just like drinking all day, not really food. I guess they'll eat what they need though.

reneecabatic: Some days--especially hot days--all I can "eat" is liquid

SandraDodd: [Boomerings, by Discovery Toys]
And they fit into ice cube spots perfectly, and they're washable in the dishwasher.

AussieTammy: oh cute! I could make mini ice blocks. Thanks Sandra!

SandraDodd: We've tried using other things, but these really keep the juice frozen to the handle. I thought measuring spoons should work, but they didn't.

LauraBowman: i have those rings...tried selling DT years ago...not my thing...but my kids still play with them.

AussieTammy: It is summer here. I guess eating liquid makes sense!

LauraBowman: great idea!!

SandraDodd: Tammy, we have a thing here that's very inexpensive. It's basically kool-aid (can someone translate American to Australian when necessary please?) in plastic tubes.

AussieTammy: I know what kool-aid is ..:-)

SandraDodd: They're purchased thawed, and then you freeze them when you want to. cut the top off and squeeze up the ice thing.

AussieTammy: yeah, we get those too.

SandraDodd: I know what lilly-pilly jelly is, too, but some things are UNNATURAL to know.

LauraBowman: never been a fan of those...they make me cough, but the kids like them

SandraDodd: So... abundance. Important concept. Kids can't choose to stop unless they had the choice NOT to stop.

AussieTammy: I guess I need to make sure there actually is an abundance and that will solve things. I start thinking "I only made 12, and you've eaten 8 already, let's save some for tomorrow!"

LauraBowman: rationing...scarcity

AussieTammy: So having plenty would be better than stopping them before they're ready.

SandraDodd: Maybe an assortment of abundance. ,g> maybe find all the little plastic cups you can and make TOO MANY of whatever juice is on sale or something. ALL kinds of shapes and flavors. That's how it works, Tammy. For getting people to pay to get back into the circus, "Always leave 'em wanting more" makes sense. For helping kids really know when they're hungry or not, it's all ass backwards.

LauraBowman: i love abundance because i grew up with scarcity. i still feel it. like that last chip is the last chip forever and ever!

Alan (Guest76): me too, life long food issues my children will never have or even be able to imagine

SandraDodd: Me too, Laura . We grew up with measuring and counting food. There were four girls and two parents, and so if a dozen somethings came into the house, TWO were mine. Never, ever three. Two. I would not under any circumstances share my two. So when I grew up and a dozen could be all mine, I ate too much.

AussieTammy: you know what I'm doing today right? running to the shops to buy juice on sale and make dozens and dozens of ice blocks! .:-P

LauraBowman: yay tammy!

reneecabatic: YAY!! ice block partay!

SandraDodd: Frozen juice is good for that. It's been frozen already.

LauraBowman: i never did the overeat thing....but i always want to!!

Alan (Guest76): I gained weight as a pre-teen, and was never left alone about it. insured i'd stay overweight

RVB: I wonder if the concept of abundance also means that parents think "well, they can have as much as they want, until they stop. And I hope that the stopping will happen soon, if I just give into this today. They will stop, won't they?" What happens if they don't "stop"?

LauraBowman: i don't like the idea of "giving in"

SandraDodd: If the parents are indicating that worry in any subtle way, it doesn't work. Laura, of giving in what to whom?

AussieTammy: since I've started reminding myself that I can have chocolate cake or cookies or whatever I feel like whenever I want, I've actually started saying no more often. Now I just need to trust that my kids will do the same.

LauraBowman: what RVB said...."just give in today." i prefer not to think of it that way

RVB: I think that's important, not to worry even in a subtle way.

Alan (Guest76): ***So when I grew up and a dozen could be all mine, I ate too much. *** yes, that's me. There's an empty bag of chips right here to prove it

SandraDodd: I think it's WAy easier for kids than adults. They don't have all those years of messages in their heads. (If they're lucky; if we don't fill them up with mom-recordings) None of my kids will eat if they're not hungry. It's very, very cool. So Tammy's other concern is getting kids to try new foods.

LauraBowman: i've been seeing that more and more over the last year and a half of my letting go of control.

RVB: I was really thinking of folks new to the concept of abundance. Perhaps the hope is that with limits off, kids will grow tired of what they have a lot of. They might continue to say "yes" to what's offered.

Alan (Guest76): it never stops amazing me and my dd is only 6

reneecabatic: I used to do that--think well, if I let tham have a bunch they'll do the "right" thing-- all the while thinking: oh, I hope they quit now!

RVB: I meant "BUT, they might continue to say "yes" to what's offered.

SandraDodd: People do that with TV and video games, too, hoping that letting them make choices will lead to the "ideal" never choosing it at all.

RVB: Yes.

SandraDodd: And some people do.

reneecabatic: Of course--it backfired--they new I was going to take it away

SandraDodd: Some teens whose families own game systems never play them.

reneecabatic: I had to really change the WAY I thought about what I was doing

SandraDodd: Ah. There's that BIG factor. And that's why the wife swap shows will never, ever work for unschoolers.

LauraBowman: and sometimes watching tv or playing video games is what they really truly want to do "all the time"...we never think "if i let her read all she wants, eventually she won't do it so much"

Alan (Guest76): some people might like to a lot and not have a perfectly healthy weight and diet. for some reason we (our culture) seem to think that's a disaster

SandraDodd: Anyone "trying" unschooling on a measured trial basis can do nothing but turn the children into maniacal grasping hooting monkeys, because they KNOW this is ending in a week, or two weeks, or a month

reneecabatic: I am still changing it---my thinking, that is

Alan (Guest76): "like to eat a lot" sorry

RVB: Ooh, maniacal grasping hooting monkey! I like that.

LauraBowman: I've never watched a wife swap with unschoolers...sounds horridly scary!! it could be so easily twisted up!!

SandraDodd: My kids have never been crazed like that, because they had a lot of freedom since before they knew it was any big deal.

Alan (Guest76): and that irrational anxiety probably leads to the morbidly obese, serious health issue that plague some Americans (in particular)

SandraDodd: It's interesting to go to unschooling conferences and be able to spot those whose freedoms are temporary for the length of the conference, and they don't really have those choices at home.

AussieTammy: One of these days I want to save up and come to a conference over there!

RVB: I remember a Valentine's party we attended - the kids whose sugar was controlled went crazy. Michelle said "no thanks" when offered chocolate, cookies or whatever.

SandraDodd: Alan, I bet so. Once you tell someone that obesity is rejection and death, why should they do anything but just BE there? It's like bad grades in school. Little children are branded failures, and so they have no incentive to be any different way.

Tammy, it would be less expensive for Australians to pool money and bring some speakers or good-example families from here.

Alan (Guest76): yes, and they become anti-intelletual, being smart isn't cool

SandraDodd: Being smart is stupid. and books are stupid.

Alan (Guest76): lol Schuyler: Time it for the next visit we'll make to Australia and David and I could come.

SandraDodd: And I've seen health food mavens cause that in their kids, about healthy food.

Schuyler: Sorry, just dropped in, know nothing about what is going on and saw Sandra's comment about pooling money

LauraBowman: that was me sandra...i did that with my ideas of "healthy"

SandraDodd: Whatever the parents have required absolutely, and touted as "have to," the kids decide to never ever choose, when they have a choice (sometimes, not always)

AussieTammy: I used to be like that with healthy food. I'm glad we're letting go of it while they're still so young.

RVB: We'd come to Australia, too. My husband has clients and we have friends to visit.

LauraBowman: me too tammy

Schuyler: Or they always feel guilty about the other food they eat, the stuff they were denied

SandraDodd: There can come a sin reaction, too.

Schuyler: They never eat anything without it being seasoned with the emotional aspects of good food versus bad food

Alan (Guest76): i'll come to Australia, my family's a good example of unschooling, really, I promise

AussieTammy: oh wow, this could be wonderful! I would love to meet some real-life unschoolers!

SandraDodd: If one has eaten one cookie, they might as well eat them all, because they've already "blown it"--sinned.

RVB: You have some there, already, Tammy.

LauraBowman: those are words i have finally figured out i had to get rid of...good vs. bad for food...it just doesn't make sense anymore

reneecabatic: guilty food is not healthy food

AussieTammy: I know there must be others around, I just haven't found them yet

RVB: Yeah, and Australia's big!

Schuyler: But the population is largely on the coasts

RVB: Ah, yes, the beautiful coasts....

AussieTammy: the population of unschoolers? or Australians in general?

SandraDodd: Laura it's so hard sometimes for me/people who did that years ago to endure the taunts of the moms who come and say I (or people like me) are too stupid to know the difference between a twinkie and a banana.

AussieTammy: I'm near the coast

LauraBowman: well they are both yellow

SandraDodd: There hasn't been a twinkie in this house for YEARS and years (since a schooled-kid bought some and brought them here)

RVB: And kinda pale inside

SandraDodd: And we have bananas all the time. But if I even say that, to new unschoolers, they might say "SEE? You know bananas are better and Twinkies are junk."

Alan (Guest76): i'm a vegan, and have strong feelings about the poor quality of a lot of processed foods. I've had to realize that anxiety and stress about food does just as much harm as any food

SandraDodd: Uh.... it's not that simple.

AussieTammy: Alan, is your whole family vegan?

SandraDodd: At least Twinkies are local. I should get points with the eat-local group. Bananas are from drug-producing tropical nations.

LauraBowman: mwahaha

RVB: My daughter would choose meat or fish over Twinkies or bananas.

SandraDodd: So Tammy, about trying new foods... I want to examine your motives.

Alan (Guest76): my wife is, my daughter started out so as a natural extension, but now she eats meat. my 5 mo just started solids

LauraBowman: we're all vegetarians except my husband who is a chef

SandraDodd: Do you want them to eat more adult foods? To learn to eat more foods so you can go to more restaurants? To try foods when they're guests, for reasons of etiquette?

Alan (Guest76): no dairy for dd because of a gluten/ casien sensitivity. another complication, but not a source of stress. there's just no dairy around

SandraDodd: When my kids were little and I wanted them to try something, or they wanted to try something but were afraid they might not like it, I always said "If you don't like it, you can spit it in my hand."

AussieTammy: we don't do restaurants much. they're too little and too active to sit still for long

SandraDodd: And I'd let them spit right there and then go and clean my hands.

AussieTammy: we do that too. they know they're welcome to spit it in my hand.

SandraDodd: I think it helped partly because it was amusing, and an honest and generous "back-up" offer. More often than not they didn't like the thing they tasted. At least enough to finish the one taste.

Alan (Guest76): my dd does that without the offer beforehand, lol

SandraDodd: With Holly, she wanted to smell foods, and often would decide based on that alone. She's 17 now and a pretty brave adventurer, with foods, though she's never liked beef or pork much unless it's ground to nothingness, maybe. She probably won't wait for a hand, at her age! (Sorry... Alan's daughter, not mine!!)

AussieTammy: My son (18mo) will try just about anything once. My daughter on the other hand, looks at it and proclaims "I don't like it!"

SandraDodd: So Tammy... How old are they again, and what are you hoping they'll try? Any particular class of food or social situation in mind?

AussieTammy: 18months and 3years - still very young!

LauraBowman: what are you wanting them to try?

SandraDodd: There are instincts in operation here, and that's good. Any three-year-old willing to tast anything she could see or find would be in serious danger outside with plants with seeds and such. Our culture has take most foods far from their origins, if not physically, in appearance.

AussieTammy: I don't know - anything!

SandraDodd: Why?

LauraBowman: surely they are eating something

AussieTammy: I'm getting frustrated by the limitations DD seems to give herself.

SandraDodd: Parental motivation and intention are really important to consider here.

LauraBowman: maybe she has a good reason

SandraDodd: She's three. You have all kinds of foods in the house. You're not limiting her to rice or poi.

reneecabatic: I have asked my kids to say "I don't care for that" rather than make faces and say "EEEEEWW YUCK--that is disgusting"--they don't have to try anything if they don't want to they try lots of foods

AussieTammy: Part of it is leftover from my own childhood, I'm sure. We had to try one bite of a new food before we could say we didn't like it.

reneecabatic: Xander won't try anything white and creamy--he's lactose intolerant and knows to avoid that substance one bite could hurt him

LauraBowman: we asked Sadie to try pizza over and over and over. she eventually did, and liked it for awhile. Now after a year and a half of freedom she no longer chooses it...says she really doesn't like it.

AussieTammy: And I won't force her to eat new food. But I guess the idea is still there that "you can't know you don't like it till you try it".

RVB: Smell and visual appeal is important to adults - it should also be allowed to be important to children.

reneecabatic: maybe there are things about pizza she likes and other things she doesn't

Schuyler: But maybe she doesn't like how it looks. I hated lots of food simply because of how it looked.

LauraBowman: it's the sauce she doesn't like. We always order something different for her when we get pizza

Schuyler: Being able to choose what I ate wasn't an often if I hadn't tried it So I would lie about where I had tried it. I didn't start exploring food until I was in my 30s I stuck with what I trusted and didn't balk at option, not often, sorry

LauraBowman: i still don't try many new foods.

Schuyler: Simon doesn't like tomato paste on pizza, he likes just cheese grated on the top with potatoes and bacon and bell peppers

AussieTammy: I guess I'll keep making the stuff she loves, offering new things occasionally, and I will be okay if she doesn't want to try it.

Alan (Guest76): I naturally just eat a few staples. in my twenties I ate only rice and a few veggies for weeks at a time

Schuyler: Offer new stuff regularly, if you are eating new stuff Don't be afraid of her no, and don't make a big deal out of it

RVB: I still do that, Tammy, with my almost 14 year old.

AussieTammy: She tried pear the other day when I put it on a monkey platter. Maybe that's the way to introduce new stuff.

SandraDodd: Tammy, most little kids love bland. Even salt might be too much. Pepper might ruin the meal completely.

Schuyler: Little kids have more taste buds than adults do.

LauraBowman: bland or lightly sweet....like breastmilk

Schuyler: They literally taste more than adults do.

reneecabatic: Monkey platters and buffet restaurants are great ways to introduce new things

Schuyler: If you know the song by They Might Be Giants, Supertaster, it's applicable to children

JennyC: Obviously there are exceptions, since Margaux loved flavor and spicy

LauraBowman: my husband jokes that i still have all my tastebuds!!

reneecabatic: my husband is still a super taster!

SandraDodd: Buffet restaurants. Marty used to get ALL white food. I was thinking the kid cited above who avoids white and creamy could've gone partners with Marty

LauraBowman: i was labeled a picky eater as a child

SandraDodd: There are exceptions, but a young child who likes spicy can get it.

JennyC: I call it discerning taste

SandraDodd: One whose parents think she SHOULD like spicy might not find anything plain enough to eat

reneecabatic: his sister ate the totally white diet for a couple of months--Jack prat and all that!

RVB: My brother-in-law (45) still eats all white plates of food.

SandraDodd: Some cooks think they're not done until they've screwed the food up with stinky powders from long-dead trees. Seriously, some people cook with spices as the main ingredient.

Schuyler: Someone called me a gastronome a while ago, it completely flabbergasted me, I was always called a finicky eater.

JennyC: I kept giving her bland, and she kept trying to eat my not so bland food! Chamille liked bland

reneecabatic: spicey is a sweet

SandraDodd: Little kids, more than anyone, need plain and recognizable simple things. How else will they learn what they like or what makes their stomachs hurt or whatever, if they don't get to see and taste the ingredients in their own real forms?

LauraBowman: me too

RVB: I'm always happy to see "pasta with butter" on kids' menus. It was Michelle's choice for years.

SandraDodd: Jenny, there y'go. If they have a choice, they can make a choice Holly still wants Ramen or Kraft mac'n'cheese for comfort food. She's 17

AussieTammy: pasta with butter and cheese is a standby here

RVB: Yup, Michelle, too. I should have said "still her choice"!

Alan (Guest76): home made french fries

Schuyler: It's good food, pasta with butter and cheese

JennyC: I'm jumping in the middle of the conversation, so I could be way out of context... I just thought immediately of Margaux and how she really surprised me with her love of spicy, which she called sour

Schuyler: Linnaea liked Bombay mix when she was little. She doesn't like it so much now, but does like a spicy japanese cracker mix. It was available, along with many other options, because David and I liked them.

JennyC: Margaux doesn't like spicy as much, but she likes really complex flavors

SandraDodd: what is bombay mix, Schuyler?

JennyC: anymore, I mean

Alan (Guest76): my dd is fascinated with "spicy" she calls dr. pepper "spicy" she's working up to trying it. we've purchased it and opened it, but she has yet to try a sip

Schuyler: www.w1.aspoleczny.pl/Bombay_mix.html with a picture

RVB: Kids are surprising! Last night, I was making pasta with butter and cheese for Michelle, while we had Indian Butter Chicken. Michelle isn't fond of spicy. But she came downstairs and said "that looks good." I gave her a taste of mine. She wanted more and wants it again for dinner tonight.

Schuyler: Dr. Pepper disturbed me when my grandma told me it had prunes in it. I wouldn't drink it for a long time after that.

RVB: It does?

reneecabatic: prunes are good!!!

JennyC: good for grandma to drink!

Schuyler: I didn't like prunes so I couldn't like Dr. Pepper

RVB: I love prunes, but can't stand Dr. Pepper.

AussieTammy: bhuja mix! my hubby eats that and DD will try it occasionally

Alan (Guest76): hippy vegans like us make pasta with nutritional yeast and flax oil.

SandraDodd: OH, FINE! I passed the spicy Japanese crackers over to my friend Ben, who's sitting across on Holly's computer, and now he's gotten up to get us each a DP. You people are Bad INFLUENCES

reneecabatic: LOL!

Schuyler: Apparently it is a myth: www.snopes.com/business/secret/drpepper.asp

JennyC: I just told Chamille that Dr Pepper, something she likes, is made with prunes and she wrinkled her nose in disgust.

RVB: I like nutritional yeast - it's cheesy!

Schuyler: It's good on popcorn

RVB: Yum.

Schuyler: Linnaea really likes it and soy sauce on popcorn

reneecabatic: it's good on any steamed vegie

JennyC: Thanks Schuyler, Chamille is happy now

Schuyler: Glad to have stopped someone else from disliking Dr. Pepper because of lies

SandraDodd: So what about popcorn toppings or additives? That's an easy and fairly inexpensive thing for little kids

JennyC: Margaux likes it with a special carmel sauce I make

SandraDodd: And if they don't like it, you can throw it out into the compost with good effect.

JennyC: Chamille likes it plain

reneecabatic: chili and lime

Alan (Guest76): olive oil on popcorn if one likes the tasts

SandraDodd: Jenny, what? like what? Making popcorn balls? Or what?

RVB: Michelle likes it with butter, lots of it.

JennyC: no drizzling over the top like butter and salt

AussieTammy: I love caramel popcorn. The kids like popcorn with butter and salt.

RVB: Does anyone remember pink popcorn?

reneecabatic: b-b-q powders--like rubs

JennyC: My niece and her dad invented this little recipe of caramel sauce and shared it with the rest of the family

SandraDodd: Pink popcorn balls, at Halloween, I remember

reneecabatic: oh--and our fave is cinnamon sugar

SandraDodd: Jenny, or anyone, if you want to send any recipes later I'll add them to the follow-up page.

AussieTammy: how do you colour popcorn? she would love it if I could make pink popcorn.

JennyC: Ok

RVB: I used to love pink popcorn. We got it in bags. It was pink sugar, I'm sure. Sort of like caramel, but not as sticky.

AussieTammy: actually, if I could make all food pink, she'd try a lot more

JennyC: I'll send that one, it's good, a little like a cross of kettle corn and carmeled popcorn

LauraBowman: we use olive oil and salt...sometimes nutritional yeast too. or spritz braggs

RVB: There's an idea - make all food pink!!

Schuyler: I'm gonna go watch The Truman Show. Bye

JennyC: I would eat everything on my plate when we had beets, because it turned everything pink, when I was a kid

RVB: Maybe google "pink food" and see what you come up with.

JennyC: bye Schuyler

RVB: Bye Schuyler.

AussieTammy: she's just noticed the background on this page actually and started saying "pink iceblock, yummy"

SandraDodd: Pickled eggs with beets make pink boiled eggs. Pink lemonade? Do you have that there, tammy?

JennyC: Chamille, at 14, almost 15, bought ice cream based on the color, just yesterday!

AussieTammy: no, don't think so. but we could make some

SandraDodd: Ben suggests bubble-gum ice cream, that's pink.

RVB: You could add strawberry or raspberry syrup, if you can find it, to regular lemonade.

SandraDodd: Cherry Garcia is pink and brown

AussieTammy: our ice cream doesn't come in nearly as many flavours as yours

SandraDodd: I don't know what Australia has in the way of fancy ice cream.

AussieTammy: we were over there a couple of years ago, and I was just wishing I could pack a suitcase full of ice-cream to bring home

Alan (Guest76): God bless Amerida

RVB: There are too many ice cream flavors for me!

Alan (Guest76): America, my hand slipped

RVB: Too many choices . I might have to try all of them.

AussieTammy: I would happily try all of them. I'm trying to think of the name of the one I really loved so you guys can tell me what's in it and I can try and recreate it here. Moose something? With chocolate and nuts I think. Yummo.

LauraBowman: moosetracks

AussieTammy: YES!!!! What else is in it?

LauraBowman: www.moosetracks.com

Guest22: actually, the nuts are chocolate covered, this is Ben (Sandra's friend)

AussieTammy: Thank you!

Guest22: I will also put Reese's peanut butter cups crumbled on any ice cream for an added "kick"

RobynC (Guest95): I popped in then the phone rang and I had to speak to someone, and now I have to go, so I'm sorry I didn't participate. Australia has a lot of gelato. Bye

AussieTammy: Mmm, gelato!

RVB: Mmm, I agree

LauraBowman: there is a moose tracks by mayfield that is peanut butter cups www.mayfielddairy.com

Alan (Guest76): Neopolitan, i have to save the strawberry for last. (I used to eat a lot of soy based "ice cream")

JennyC: I still eat a lot of soy based ice cream, since I can't eat the other

SandraDodd: Okay. We've covered ice blocks/popsicles, popcorn, ice cream...

JennyC: there are some amazing ones out there now, that didn't exist when I was a kid!

SandraDodd: What are Tammy's kids going to eat though?

RVB: I like Rice Dream Sandwiches!

reneecabatic: we make ice cream for Xander with coconut milk

AussieTammy: I think I'm going to make a monkey platter just of pink food

SandraDodd: How are they with cheese?

AussieTammy: love cheese!

SandraDodd: Tammy if you do, PLEASE send a photo!!!

JennyC: cheese and crackers

AussieTammy: of course. I love photos of food

JennyC: or a baggette

reneecabatic: we have these little mini round cheeses in red wax-- the kids used to love them

AussieTammy: babybel cheese. they requested to try that, but then didn't like it

JennyC: it's a little bitter
it's good with a bread
but not alone, according to my kids

AussieTammy: I think they eat more of a variety than I think they do. it just seems like it's not a lot when we get a day of just eating ice blocks.

RVB: Gotta go to massage therapy. Bye!

AussieTammy: Ooh, enjoy. Bye!

JennyC: bye

SandraDodd: babybel isn't as bland as could be. Or melt it. Put a little dab on bread? Toaster oven?

AussieTammy: when I make grilled cheese they like it with tomato. "Cheesy 'mato toast".

JennyC: I might even do that, since I have some right now in the fridge
green chiles, mild ones, are good on grilled cheese

LauraBowman: are you all hungry or what???

SandraDodd: Although it's kinda nasty, what is "American cheese" in Australia? Solid Velveeta. I don't know how/if it translates

LauraBowman: australian cheese?

SandraDodd: Little kids tend to like that. I use it for dog snacks.

AussieTammy: we don't get anything like that here that I know of.

SandraDodd: Oh! String cheese/mozarella.

reneecabatic: cut slices of cheese with cookie cutters

AussieTammy: we've had American friends want to cook for us and get stuck when they can't find a good velveeta substitute

JennyC: both my kids went through a time that they ate a lot of those cheese slices and now won't even look at them

reneecabatic: cubes and stick pretzels--build something- then eat it!

SandraDodd: Simple for kids.

LauraBowman: love that renee!!

JennyC: string cheese is like that too

AussieTammy: we can't even get stick pretzels here! we used to, but they discontinued them.

SandraDodd: canned cheese, maybe? I'm googling for what's in australia.
Because they might put their eye out!?

AussieTammy: I don't know, maybe it's just my local shops. But I haven't seen them for awhile.

reneecabatic: i wondered about that--we were in Ukraine and they had these rare stick pretzels that everyone gobbled up --we couldn't find any more in the stores

AussieTammy: we can get cheese in a jar. really processed stuff. not real nice.

reneecabatic: oh--the cheese that sprays out of the can?

JennyC: my favorite potato chip has been discontinued and I'm really saddened by it!

SandraDodd: That might be what your American friends need next time. gross processed "cheese food"

reneecabatic: you can draw pictures with it on cornbread or toast!

AussieTammy: www.kraft.com.au/Products/ProductList/C/Cheese/CheeseSpread.htm

SandraDodd: Ben says he used to like fish sticks and ketchup

JennyC: that was our latest food request, fish sticks

SandraDodd: adding the familiar (ketchup) to something suspicious (fish sticks)
Burger king has "chicken fries" now.

JennyC: and you can easily make cocktail sauce with ketchup

SandraDodd: Look like french fries, but they're like "nuggets" (ground chicken stuck back into a solid form)
Sorry, Alan; don't mean to gross you out.

reneecabatic: oh--gotta go play-- love the chat --thanks

JennyC: add a little fish sauce and lemon juice, maybe a little garlic to taste and voila, cocktail sauce

SandraDodd: Bye, Renee!

AussieTammy: bye!

reneecabatic: bye

JennyC: bye

LauraBowman: maybe I dooo wanna be a french fry

Alan (Guest76): no problem, I'm averting my mind's eye

SandraDodd: Very cute.

LauraBowman: www.youtube.com/watch?v=gm_n76Dsl0c

SandraDodd: Laura, what have you sent? I'll "enliven" the links in the transcript.

JennyC: burger king chicken fry commercial

LauraBowman: the chicken fry commercial

SandraDodd: Okay
Cool.
Thanks

JennyC: a little weird! the whole idea of it

LauraBowman: very...but hilarious

AlexPolyKow: Hi

AussieTammy: we get really good chocolate here. Makes me not so sad about the ice cream.

SandraDodd: Holly just got back from work, told us some stories, and then said "I think I"ll have some macaroni and cheese"

LauraBowman: mmm chocolate

AlexPolyKow: Finally here. Had to go nurse Gigi to sleep and play with MD

AussieTammy: DD just asked for some. We're munching on Cadbury Old Gold. SO good!

SandraDodd: So we have half an hour or so. Tammy's poor kids, if she takes our advice, will be eating popcorn with cheese-food. Gross.

JennyC: and ice cream what about fruit?

LauraBowman: and popsicles with toys in them

AlexPolyKow: Gigi ate a whole head of broccoli today for lunch and then a few spoons of ice cream

JennyC: we make smoothies and freeze them into popcicles

LauraBowman: that's where our leftover smoothies end up

SandraDodd: If anyone has missed the new list of stuff which was added to the monkey platter page yesterday, there are lots of ideas: sandradodd.com/eating/monkeyplatter

JennyC: you can also freeze chocolate dipped bananas

AussieTammy: I'll try that. They drink smoothies.

LauraBowman: any direction for this last half hour???

SandraDodd: Do you have a request, Laura?

AlexPolyKow: My son loves monkey platters (we call it goodies plate)

SandraDodd: Or Tammy, anything else you want to draw out of the assembled group?

LauraBowman: just curious

JennyC: Smoothies are a neverending variety of things mixed together

SandraDodd: If someone names a direction, there's a direction.

AussieTammy: No, you guys have been great. Lots of good ideas, thanks

AlexPolyKow: I really need more ideas for simple foods here , The monkey platter already helped

SandraDodd: That platter page will have photos in a couple of week. I already have a few collected for "the contest!" and Now I'm hoping for an all-pink platter picture!

JennyC: cookie cutters and sandwiches are nice things to combine

AlexPolyKow: we are stuck we the same old - my son does not like mixed stuff or dipping

LauraBowman: i keep wanting to ask questions that start with how...but i seem to already know the answers before i ask them. it's not really the how part i guess. it's still an internal struggle that is becoming more and more less external.

SandraDodd: Laura, you could ask anyway. It could be more like pep talk and mental-massage, if you already know.

AussieTammy: I want to do a bunch of single colour monkey platters now, just for fun. but I'll start with pink.

SandraDodd: Maybe just hearing the same thing in different words will help?

Guest69: I love the idea of monkey platters but seem to need to do one for each child or they result in arguing about favorites

JennyC: Juice gelatin with odd things stuck in them, like gummy frogs

LauraBowman: it almost ALWAYS helps me to hear the same things over and over again until they are drilled in real good.

AlexPolyKow: I make one big one and they share

JennyC: us too

SandraDodd: Ben says Burger King has "apple fries" too

AlexPolyKow: sometimes I split in two plates if they want separate

JennyC: I do it more often when there are a lot of kids here

SandraDodd: Slices of apple as an option for kid-meals, I guess

But they're shaped like fries

JennyC: I usually make a big platter and put out little plates

AlexPolyKow: That too Jenny

LauraBowman: i think they come with some godawful carmel dip too

SandraDodd: Wendy's has mandarin oranges

JennyC: peanut butter is a nice dip for apples

AlexPolyKow: My son is more picky. Nothing can be mixed

LauraBowman: and you can choose milk instead of a soda!! for kid's meals

AlexPolyKow: My son likes chocolate shake and my daughter diet coke ( because of dad) she ends up drinking my water

LauraBowman: i would like a little one liner to run by myself when that knee jerk reaction kicks in to super-push the "healthier" choice.

AussieTammy: yes, that would be helpful for me too

SandraDodd: Affirmations Well Diana/hahamommy has a visual, not an affirmation so much. But the idea that if your child were to die soon, how important would this or that be?

LauraBowman: breathing helps...and saying "it's okay, it really is"

AlexPolyKow: A good think to do Laura is to just give your child what she wants and then make a monkey platter with several different options of healthy stuff plus whatever makes you feel is " bad" and offer

SandraDodd: (I didn't like my foods mixed or touching when I was a kid.)

AlexPolyKow: That is my son

LauraBowman: wow, Sandra!! i don't think anything you've ever said has ever had the impact that just did!!

Guest69: we have 4 kids and typically cant afford the "happy meals" so I get a thing of apples and a thing of fries and everyone is happy to split them

AlexPolyKow: My kids are so great about sharing their food.

LauraBowman: that's going on the fridge!!!

JennyC: what about stuff like hummus?

AlexPolyKow: They will give each other their cookies, candy, whatever

AussieTammy: I've started writing mantras on my notice board. Right now it says "JOY" with lots of smilie faces

JennyC: if you make it yourself you can make it very bland

AussieTammy: and also "Find a way to say YES"

JennyC: Chamille used to like cottage cheese and pineapple

AlexPolyKow: I gave my son a bag of Hershey chocolate eggs and he asked me to keep them fro him for eastern so i could hide them and he could find them- no need to eat them now JennyC: Yes, to yes!

Guest69: i have a child with peanut and milk allergies. would love ideas for dips for him. he likes to dip things and likes ketchup and guacamole (sometimes)

JennyC: have you tried any of the non-dairy cream cheese? that stuff is GOOD!

Guest69: I've never seen it

LauraBowman: 69...can he eat cashews or almonds...they make nice butters too

AlexPolyKow: Gigi went to the grocery store yesterday with dad and both her brother chocolate chip cookies and some other box of candy she knows he likes. She turned 3 last month

Guest69: he eats sunbutter. never really trusted nut butters

JennyC: guest 69, are you in the US?

Guest69: yes

JennyC: the stuff I get is called Better Than Cream Cheese Toffuti makes one too

SandraDodd: Come on in, though guest4. We're talking about food

Alan (Guest76): hummus made with just chickpeas, oil, and salt.

Guest69: I will definitely look that one up. we have that brand icecream at our kroger

JennyC: BBQ sauce is good for dipping too

AussieTammy: we like to mix cream cheese (or the tofutti one) with a can of refried beans, heated just slightly. it's thick, but great for dipping tortilla chips.

LauraBowman: you can make a good chocolate dip with avocadoes!! mash up with honey and cocoa

AlexPolyKow: salsa with cream cheese is great too

JennyC: It sounds weird and decadent, I might have to try that!

Alan (Guest76): btcc folks also make a sour cream sub, it's thinner, good on chips

Guest69: laura- like choc sauce or powder

LauraBowman: cocoa powder or carob if you like

SandraDodd: with apples, sometimes just cutting them a new way is fun enough.

JennyC: we buy the non dairy sour cream too. I make a really good ranch dressing with it

LauraBowman: apples sliced to show the star in the middle is fun

Alan (Guest76): add olives tu hummus and process

JennyC: The greek olives?

AlexPolyKow: Sometimes I offer my son something new or he wants to try and he just touches his tongue and tells me that he will like ti when he grows up.

AussieTammy: sundried tomatoes blended into hummus is nice too.

SandraDodd: If your kids are used to wedges, maybe run one through a food processor or cut them like rings (cored and round, as for drying)

LauraBowman: when I make hummus I always have to make extra chick peas because they like those best by themselves to eat as finger food.

Alan (Guest76): yes, greek, or green

JennyC: I discovered that both my kids will eat spinach if it's in lasagna

AussieTammy: mine like spinach and feta rolls. like a sausage roll. do you guys have sausage rolls?

Guest69: i will definitely look for the cream cheese. He likes to eat non dairy versions of foods we eat. Like soy cheese. He is pretty particular but does eat some interesting things.

LauraBowman: Sadie likes raw spinach in a bowl spritzed with braggs/soy sauce

JennyC: edemame beans are very popular at our house

Guest69: we tried those, they were not a hit

LauraBowman: looove edemama!

Guest69: I thought they were good

Alan (Guest76): i have spinach issues, forced to eat cooked as a child, yuck!

AlexPolyKow: MD likes raw baby spinach leaves in his monkey platter

JennyC: both my girls like inari rolls, they are time consuming to make, but you can make a ton and they last a while and can be eaten warm or cold

Guest69: we had sausage balls the other day and the kids loved those

Guest4: That sounds like it's missing "on a stick"

JennyC: I am going to make sloppy joes today, as a request from one of my kids. That's easy and messy and relatively bland

SandraDodd: Kirby's second Christmas box arrived today. Today, March 4

Guest69: they are great, sausage, biscuick and chedder cheese

SandraDodd: I mailed it December 10. He's moving out of the apartments into a house, today and went to the office to ask for some cleaning supplies or something, and they said he had a package.

JennyC: I've got to go all, I'm in high demand right now.... bye all

Guest4: Bye

SandraDodd: But in the package was a tin of (bye, Jenny) rum balls I made him

AussieTammy: Bye Jenny

Guest4: Were they still good?

AlexPolyKow: bye Jenny

SandraDodd: and a Ninja turtle lunchbox full of bizcochitos. Yes!
Still good. !
And some ho ho ho boxer shorts and Christmas candles he'll just have to save for next year. When he checked several times in December and January it was never there, so he gave up. My food story of the day

Alan (Guest76): my dd ate 5 popsicles during this chat so far

AlexPolyKow: The other day I had kids over at my house that are not really limited but candy and stuff is scarce in their home and they could not stop eating all the candy and chocolate I had in my house

Alan (Guest76): you are not alone, tammy

AussieTammy: My kids just stopped eating chocolate on their own. They brought me the block, and every time they asked for more, I broke more off for them. I thought we would finish the block. But they've stopped on their own and have moved onto dancing around the living room now

LauraBowman: i have a yummy recipe i used to make a long time ago and haven't in years and i just thought of it.

AlexPolyKow: I think they feel their parents don't really feel confident letting him eat certain things

SandraDodd: Laura, I'd be glad to add any recipes you want to send, or links to where they are online or something.

AlexPolyKow: I would love recipes and new ideas

AussieTammy: I have a good link for popcorn recipes somewhere, let me find it

SandraDodd: Here's something that can be made without the meat. Cheese and flour and additives sandradodd.com/sausageballs
grated apple and honey and ground nuts have breen a good combo. They're good warm or cold, can be made tiny like the size of the end of your thumb, or more the size of a regular meatball. They keep well and aren't too messy, even if you use sausage.

LauraBowman: easy carob/chocolate treats:
1/4 cup carob/cocoa powder,
1 cup nut butter of choice,
1 ripe banana - mashed,
1/4 cup chopped nuts (optional),
1/4 cup unsweetened shredded coconut (optional).

AussieTammy: www.popcorn.org/nutrition/recipes/index.cfm

SandraDodd: Good camping food. You can take them frozen which keeps other things cold, and eat them thawed out later.

LauraBowman: combine all and mix well, form into a log and wrap in wax paper and freeze. slice off desired amount as needed. yum.

Guest69: The last week or so I have let go of alot of food controls. i have to remind myself and sometimes will backstep but for the most part things have gone well. Having a little trouble convincing my husband however.

SandraDodd: !!! Laura! that's like the peanut butter balls they used to make at our school cafeteria, kind of. They would roll them in coconut, refrigerate the long rolls, and cut them into inch-long sections for us at lunch. Not with chocolate or peanut butter, but how cool that will be! I'm making those for sure.

AlexPolyKow: Sandra do you have links to those videos and limiting that bbc has and pbs?
One is on Joyce's site ( the PBS video link ) on her first link about food.
The other is here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sn/humanbody/truthaboutfood/flashapp/nonflash.shtml

down on how to feed you kids/ does forbidding snacks work

Hope it helps!
Alex P.

SandraDodd: I have some fancy nut butter from the health food store. Pistachio and almond I think ?

Alan (Guest76): g69 - congrats, good for you

LauraBowman: i like the frozen aspect of most anything =)

SandraDodd: alex, don't know what you mean

AlexPolyKow: They could be really good to help dads

LauraBowman: frozen = yum

AussieTammy: frozen grapes = better than candy!

SandraDodd: guest69, until your husband feels better about it, maybe think of it saying yes more, instead of "letting go."

LauraBowman: alex...those links are on joyce's site i think???

AlexPolyKow: There are two videos on food, one by bbc and the other by pbs on limitting foods and how it backfires, they show how children react to limits

SandraDodd: I'm willing to put links to Joyce's links or whatever. If you know where they are, please send me a note.

Guest69: i have been looking at it definitely as saying yes more. he has seen that and I think my example has helped some.

LauraBowman: yes, tammy i agree with that...when they go on .99 sale...i buy about 40 pounds to freeze!!

AlexPolyKow: I will look for them

SandraDodd: I might not finish the follow-up page of this until next week, because I need to go to Arizona Friday morning and I'm not altogether prepared for that

Guest69: but the philosophy behind it he just won't agree to.

SandraDodd: So that gives you all a few days to send me cool stuff for it!

AlexPolyKow: Sure I will get them sometime no worries I know I can find them somewhere

SandraDodd: Guest69, look in the other food chat at some of what Schuyler's husband wrote about food controls and the effect, especially on girls. sandradodd.com/chats/food

search for "David"and I think you'll find them easier. David works at a medical school, teaching, so it must be true!

Alan (Guest76): there was a mainstream news report last year, i'll look for it

SandraDodd: Thanks

Guest69: will do. we are actually both great examples of people who had very strict controls on our food intake

SandraDodd: There's a page on longterm effects on my food page, too. And my first attempt at a random link generator. sandradodd.com/food

AlexPolyKow: Last time Schuyler was here with David and the kids, Simon was all into eating peaches and nectarines despite all the cookies, chocolate and candy we always have at home WERE here! ..;-)

Guest4: David's ideas make sense. Looking at it from a survival perspective, if a food is desired and is also in low supply, then we'll have an urge to get as much as we can because it is scarce. Or Schuyler or whoever's idea it was

SandraDodd: And he got the idea first from what Pam Sorooshian wrote here: sandradodd.com/t/economics

AlexPolyKow: great reading

Guest69: thanks

SandraDodd: Any more important questions?

LauraBowman: is our time up???

SandraDodd: I don't mind staying longer, and I don't mind others staying longer, either.

Guest4: I'll be lurking for a while

LauraBowman: i told my kids i'd be off by now...so i'm out!! thanks again for a great chat session sandra!!!

AussieTammy: this has been so helpful, thank you!

SandraDodd: Thanks, all, for being here!
Good, Tammy. I was afraid we weren't getting good info in for you

AlexPolyKow: Bye everyone!

Guest69: thanks

AussieTammy: just helping me change my thoughts and attitudes about food is great. I can come up with more ideas to feed them ..:-)

SandraDodd: I put two Joyce-links on the page for this chat I hope you got to see those, or might can do it later

AussieTammy: yes I saw them, thanks

SandraDodd: Well if people don't mind, then, I'm going to go and do some more prep for the weekend. This was fun!
Send me monkey-platter photos if you make any, please.

AussieTammy: I'm glad it's morning here and I can rearrange my day so I can now go and make popsicles and buy lots of pink food!

SandraDodd: By the 15th of March! Have fun, Tammy!

Guest69: I am working on a great monkey platter

AussieTammy: thanks Sandra! I'm off too, to play with my kids. Bye all!

Guest69: picture that is

Alan (Guest76): thanks Sandra, thanks everyone

[A]nyone who's seen the video game Katamari, or who likes whimsical food, will appreciate this:

http://www.neatorama.com/2008/12/09/katamari-damacy-bento-box/ 

For those who don't know Katamari, it's a game where you roll a sticky ball and pick things up--at first little things, like tacks, paper clips and litter, and then you progress to big things like houses and cows. 

Joanna

http://annathered.wordpress.com/category/bento-blog-all/bento-blog-ghibli-bento/ The woman who is doing the Katamari Damacy bento boxes is one heck of a bento box crafter. Beautiful food. 

—Schuyler


Sandra - this is the report I mentioned in the March 4th food chat. When I found it I was reminded that it was from a PBS program narrated by Alan Alda. I mentioned it towards the end when someone suggested finding scientific evidence to help convince a reluctant husband.

Hope it's helpful,
Alan Marshall

Convenient Foods
http://joyfullyrejoycing.com/influencing%20kid%20behavior/food/convenientsnacks.html

Getting Kids to Eat Right
http://joyfullyrejoycing.com/influencing%20kid%20behavior/food/food.html

Toddler foods discussion at FamilyRUNning: http://familyrun.ning.com/forum/topics/toddlers-and-eating

Monkey Platters and the winning images:

the food chat before this one


The first food chat