Reluctance to go out
Steph Selby
A common theme I read in my unschooling email lists, and from my unschooling friends is the impact of our children not wanting to leave the house. And much of the time the answers are the same, find other times to go out when another caregiver can be present, add something enticing so it includes the member that doesn't want to go out etc.
But what about reluctance? We have several outings we do each week, outings for, and enjoyed by our kids. They look forward to these outings, ballet, acting, play group, skiing, volunteering, but on the morning of I am met with resistance. "Maybe we should go next week, I'm just going to log on to see if my friends are on (minecraft)" Which means if they are she's missing out. While visiting another unschooler yesterday, this happened to her about a class her son was getting ready to go to, one he really enjoys, but the hour before hand he had a reason to not want to go this week. She and I both just push through the reluctance. I know you are missing out on that, but your getting to do this, and then when we are finished, I ask if they enjoyed themselves and want to go next week. It's always yes! And we go home and they do the original that.
If we talk about it on another day, they get excited. Most recently, we were talking about how its been a while since we've gone to a museum, and I told my eldest that it's hard to plan things because although right now you say you want to go, when the day comes you'll be sad you have to leave and can't play with your friends.
I see the options as:
A. We become recluses until the impacts of not going out reveal themselves
B. We push through the reluctance, and that the enjoyment of going will be learned
I don't have a C or D or ...
Steph
Sandra Dodd
A. We become recluses until the impacts of not going out reveal themselves
B. We push through the reluctance, and that the enjoyment of going will be learned
I don't have a C or D or ...-=-
<lorna.laurie@...>
<plaidpanties666@...>
>> push through the reluctance, and that the enjoyment of going will be learned.<<***********************
It could help to step back from the word "reluctance" and consider what else might be going on. It could be that transitions are tough sometimes - because, well, transitions are tough sometimes! ;) In that case it's helpful to make the transition itself smoother - as Sandra mentioned, get things ready ahead of time so it's easy to leave. Consider ways to bring along what they're doing and make the travel time interesting and fun, with added destinations maybe.
Or maybe they have a difficult time figuring out how to wait - what do you do when you know you're going to be going out in a couple hours? That's a hard thing to decide even for adults. Do you do something you enjoy and risk not wanting to stop when it's time to go? Do you not bother and sit around being grumpy and bored? Help them wait. That's tricky if you're running around getting ready! It may mean one more layer of prep for you, or it may mean lots of reminders that you're going in x amount of time.
>> We become recluses until the impacts of not going out reveal themselves<<That's a very extreme statement. I mean, you're going out several times a week, I'd hardly call staying home occasionally because someone's not in the mood or wrapped up in a project "becoming a recluse". Don't see the situation as all or nothing. See that staying home is one of the options, and some days it will be a better option than others. Some days it could be better to be able to spend hours and hours on a project than dropping everything for an outing. If you're not seeing that possibility, then you could be closing yourself off to subtler cues - do you Always push them to go? It shouldn't be always, it should be conditional.
Sandra Dodd
janine davies
Sent from my iPhone
On 12 Feb 2014, at 17:18, "Sandra Dodd" <Sandra@...> wrote:
-=-I see the options as:
A. We become recluses until the impacts of not going out reveal themselves
B. We push through the reluctance, and that the enjoyment of going will be learned
I don't have a C or D or ...-=-Try to set the day up so that getting into the car is easier (shoes in there, coats in there).Maybe plan to stop somewhere on the way (breakfast, lunch, to pick up a friend at a certain time).Don't "push through," pull through. :-) Be attractive, and draw them toward the thing/place/plan.But I still sometimes say "YES!" enthusiastically to a party at someone else's house, because when they ask me they're right there, and it DOES sound good. I'm thinking that I would love to BE at a party at their house. But when the day comes, do I love to set aside the cool things I was already doing to change clothes and find food/gift/whatever, and drive out in the cold, and find a place to park, and...No, that part of it isn't a very good part.Sandra
Steph Selby
I am very flexible about going out. I really like projects and respect them being involved in whatever they are doing. We miss things and that is not a big deal. I wasn't meaning as a black and white issue, I was meaning more as a flexible option if they want to stay home we will type. I guess I shouldn't have used the term recluse. If our kids stayed at home each and every time they said, "Na not this week," at some point, I am sure I would be met with eagerness to leave the house. What I am wondering is, is that a good lifetime learning lesson option? So rather than coming at it as an expectation, change it to an option so the night before I would tell them play meet up tomorrow if you want to go, and if yes ask again in the morning. We do our outings because they like to do them, but they don't want to go the day of. I've also told them if we miss the class they take too often, we will have to withdraw from it, which is the reality.
I'm similar to Sandra, I want to go to the party, but when it comes down to it I am involved in other things, and it's like OK, Steph, get ready you'll have fun. And I can drag my feet, waiting until the last moment to get ready. Because I am like that, I would say I prepare for outings. And the only involvement I really do with our girls is reminders of when we will be leaving, and then at the very last they dress and we leave. It's easy getting them out. We have tablets, play games in the car, get food or bring food, needs are met. It's just the "oh, do we really have to go? We'd rather...." that I am trying to address. And when it starts happening Most of the time, I am looking for new ways to get out of the house without that feeling. I feel like my staple, "yes, we have to go now because your friends won't be home later, "I am still met with, "well how about next week?" and if we miss it this week, later in the week they tell me we should make sure we visit our friends next week, and we repeat the dialog next week. I feel like I am picking up a crying baby that is upset, taking him to an area that will make him happy, but he doesn't know it yet and he is upset with me for carrying him. The difference being, that they do know I am taking them someplace happy.
I am going to try to be more inviting, add more positive reminders about what they will be doing, who they get to see etc. It may just be this is one of those things that happens to us in life that we struggle with and we just have to make it as nice as possible.
I think I'll also see if I can enlist their help the night before in getting ready when they are wanting to go on the outing. Normally I do it all for them, but maybe enlisting their help will increase their desire to go, so they look forward to it knowing it'll be happening the next day. Because maybe the excitement from the last time we went to friends has worn off a bit, getting ready in advance will refresh that feeling.
Steph
<plaidpanties666@...>
>>but boys still in pjs started to show reluctance when it came to the dressing bit<<
Another way to make dressing to go out more appealing is to have fun with clothes - go out in costume! It's great fun. Store your fairy wings in the car, if you drive, and have a few extra sets to share at the playground.
<plaidpanties666@...>
So you'd rather circumvent that kind of learning in order to come up with the right kind of lesson? This seems like it's more about you than about them, that you think their life will be better if they're out more, and you want that to be the lesson, validating your machinations, pushing or pulling, but getting them to do what you've decided is in their best interest.
It's also another example of thinking in extremes - how does one decision become all of them all week long? It's like the word "recluse" - it's a hint at your fears and maybe at some bad old tapes in your head. Would it be a crisis if you didn't go anywhere for a whole week? Really, really think about that, don't just reject it out of hand. A week isn't that long. Neither is a month, really. What if they Actually Enjoyed being home that much? What if you did? Maybe they'd be happier to leave their warm nest after a month of really, really enjoying it day in and out, no other obligations tugging at them, friends coming to them instead of the opposite.
I'm a strong introvert, so getting out can be a lot of work for me. At the same time, I'm good at making the best of things - I can be charming and lively and have a great time socializing, or shopping, or sightseeing, or playing. Sometimes its worth it. Sometimes it's not. Sometimes I stay home and wish I'd gone out. Sometimes I go out and wish I'd stayed home. There's no lesson in that and no right answers. I've learned to feel my way through each situation and decide rather than to make a kind of rule for myself "go, you'll have a good time". I learned all that as an adult because as a child those decisions weren't mine to make. The only "lessons" were about how to go, not how to decide when I really wanted to stay.
My daughter is sensitive, and an introvert. She doesn't like transitions and she doesn't like words. So going somewhere takes a kind of long, slow-motion "discussion" and how that all works out has changed several times over the years. It doesn't look the same now that she's 12 as it did when she was 4 or 8. It may be that you're starting to see similar changes in one or more of your kids - but you won't see them if your focus remains one of how to get them (them as a unit, no less) out of the house happily because that's just a variation of what you've been doing, only pulling instead of pushing. You're eyes are still on the horizon and not the individual people around you who may each have different needs in the moment.
---Meredith
Steph Selby
I'm an introvert and I love being at home. Leaving for me is ugh. Heck the grocery store delivering would be nice! (And yes I know it's an option) I wrote to see what I could do to help them, when either were feeling iffy about going. My eldest really loves her friends, being with people, and that includes both online friends and physical. She wants physical friends and maintaining physical relationships requires visiting with friends. She really misses our neighbor we moved away from, and we don't live near anyone her age now, so if she wants to see people, we have to leave and meet them. (And we've recently moved, so we don't know many people to invite over) Selfishly, I don't want her to miss out because I'd rather stay home than put in the effort to help her get ready when she only kind of wants to leave the day of. (Like I said dressing, shoes, etc. are already easy, leaving the friends on the computer are not and that's where the help comes in from me) The reality is I like being home and we only leave because one girl or the other, maybe both, want to do A, B, and C when we talk about things we want to do, in the future.
Learning -=how to decide if I really want to stay=- is it. And I feel like if I am pushing or pulling I am making the choice for them.
I've never thought about the term life lesson in terms of right or wrong. I had no idea the word came with so much extra, and it gives me food for thought on wording. Learning from staying home whenever, is that you'd learn when you actually wanted to go and when you didn't. That to me is a life lesson, something learned from life experience not as a parental set-up or creation, and I don't see the answer from that as black and white nor right or wrong, only that you learn what works for you. And to choose to stay home and regretting you didn't go, or finding out you were so glad you stayed home because you had an awesome day at home, are two different not right nor wrong outcomes. That she would have for herself.
I feel when I am getting her ready when she only kind of wants to leave but would be happy staying at home is taking the choice away from her. But if helping her get ready and helping her through the transition isn't taking away her choice then I wanted perspective on it. I was seeking different perspectives on leaving the house.
This was meant just as a question on how to help my daughter leave the house to do the things she wants but she will be leaving things she also wants to be doing at home. When she decides she would rather stay home, but kind of wants to go out maybe in an hour or so. This focus on black and white thinking, right or wrong lessons is deterring from my questions.
Is it more cooperative to say hey do you want to go, be met with no, and go OK sounds good, or to say hey but maybe you'll have a great time, I've done all the preparation? Or if there were any renditions of I wasn't thinking about. I'm not trying to create something here, not a set-up, no chosen outcome. Just an answer to some options when met with a no, an iffy no, a maybe later.
Steph
On Feb 15, 2014 10:13 AM, <plaidpanties666@...> wrote:>>is that a good lifetime learning lesson option<<
If you're thinking in terms of lessons, you're not thinking about decision making or learning. With lessons, there are right and wrong answers. But in real learning, a "wrong choice" isn't inherently worse than a right one - in fact, it's often more valuable.
>> If our kids stayed at home each and every time they said, "Na not this week," at some point, I am sure I would be met with eagerness to leave the house. <<
So you'd rather circumvent that kind of learning in order to come up with the right kind of lesson? This seems like it's more about you than about them, that you think their life will be better if they're out more, and you want that to be the lesson, validating your machinations, pushing or pulling, but getting them to do what you've decided is in their best interest.
It's also another example of thinking in extremes - how does one decision become all of them all week long? It's like the word "recluse" - it's a hint at your fears and maybe at some bad old tapes in your head. Would it be a crisis if you didn't go anywhere for a whole week? Really, really think about that, don't just reject it out of hand. A week isn't that long. Neither is a month, really. What if they Actually Enjoyed being home that much? What if you did? Maybe they'd be happier to leave their warm nest after a month of really, really enjoying it day in and out, no other obligations tugging at them, friends coming to them instead of the opposite.
>>I'm similar to Sandra, I want to go to the party, but when it comes down to it I am involved in other things, and it's like OK, Steph, get ready you'll have fun.<<
I'm a strong introvert, so getting out can be a lot of work for me. At the same time, I'm good at making the best of things - I can be charming and lively and have a great time socializing, or shopping, or sightseeing, or playing. Sometimes its worth it. Sometimes it's not. Sometimes I stay home and wish I'd gone out. Sometimes I go out and wish I'd stayed home. There's no lesson in that and no right answers. I've learned to feel my way through each situation and decide rather than to make a kind of rule for myself "go, you'll have a good time". I learned all that as an adult because as a child those decisions weren't mine to make. The only "lessons" were about how to go, not how to decide when I really wanted to stay.
My daughter is sensitive, and an introvert. She doesn't like transitions and she doesn't like words. So going somewhere takes a kind of long, slow-motion "discussion" and how that all works out has changed several times over the years. It doesn't look the same now that she's 12 as it did when she was 4 or 8. It may be that you're starting to see similar changes in one or more of your kids - but you won't see them if your focus remains one of how to get them (them as a unit, no less) out of the house happily because that's just a variation of what you've been doing, only pulling instead of pushing. You're eyes are still on the horizon and not the individual people around you who may each have different needs in the moment.
---Meredith
Steph Selby
And perhaps not obvious, no I want to stay home, is an option. I am not wanting to coerce her to stay when she doesn't. I do want to help her when she kind of does, but also kind of wants to stay home. And she may be getting to a change in how that plays out, I want to be sensitive to that.
Meredith, I appreciate the level of involvement of your answers. Because I am needing an in depth thought to this. Which is why I am attempting to be very clear.
Steph
Steph Selby
Coerce her to leave, not stay.
Steph Selby
I just talked with her about taking her acting class, it's a good weekly example of a committed thing. And asked if she would rather stay home and play online and that we can stop the class at any time if she prefers. Her face got big eyes and she told me she really likes to go, she just doesn't like to get ready and it's hard to leave her online friends, yet she doesn't want to stop going. So no biggie, probably putting way more thought into this, but is important to me, that I help her.
janine davies
Yes thank you for this! We did something similar yesterday with fantastic results - we are house selling buying…. and have found the viewing very un enticing for our youngest, as we have been viewing close to home twice now we have left them home alone (11 & 6) for max half hour, but this one was a little further afield and hampered by roads closed due to the flooding, he and we were not comfortable with leaving him for an hour or so, and our eldest thought that too long too, so we started the "pulling ' through enticing being attraction thinking on it (which with house viewing was limited!) and then with thanks and use of your words/ideas above - I suggested that dad pick him up just as he was - in Pjs, in his beloved sleeping bag, and put him in his car seat just like that with the seat belt over him, and with favourite snacks, water,and daddies phone so he could carry on playing the Terraria he was playing on the PS3, Genius! He thought it hilarious to be in his sleep bag most of all whilst travelling in the car, and laughing that the people outside had no idea.>>"That's a good example of the problem being in the transition itself. And one way to make it easier is to eliminate the change of clothes. If they need to get out of the house in something particular, change the night before, or the day before, or if you drive have a change of clothes in the car. I used to keep Mo's shoes in the car for exactly that reason - she didn't wear then around home, even outside, but needed them for going to town. So the shoes stayed in the car and she'd put them on right before getting out of the car to go into a store or playground or whatever." <<
To: [email protected]
From: plaidpanties666@...
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2014 06:25:38 -0800
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Reluctance to go out
>>but boys still in pjs started to show reluctance when it came to the dressing bit<<
Another way to make dressing to go out more appealing is to have fun with clothes - go out in costume! It's great fun. Store your fairy wings in the car, if you drive, and have a few extra sets to share at the playground.
Sandra Dodd
By Pam Sorooshian