CASS KOTRBA

I am looking for suggestions on the best way to handle Santa, the tooth fairy and the Easter bunny. I have never wanted to lie to my children but I feel like I've been forced into this lie by my society and now I don't know how to get out of it. Initially I tried to take a light hearted approach to the subject and let on to the children that it was a game we were playing but my daughter (now 10) is in love with the idea that these beings really exist, love her and bring her gifts. She says things like "Some people don't believe in Santa but I do. He's real, right mommy?". I've tried saying "What do you think?" and she 100% thinks it's true and seems to want very much to continue believing it. My son ,8, is very quiet on the subject and I really don't know what he thinks but I haven't pursued it with him because I don't know what to say. When I was a kid my brother and I found a Santa suit hanging in a closet at my grandma's house and questioned my mom, who confessed. I remember being heart broken, feeling betrayed and wondering what else they were lying to me about. I don't want my kids to have that type of experience and it is important to me to be honest with them but in the past I have felt like telling them would deprive them of their fun. I'm thinking I should start breaking it to them gently but am unsure how to proceed. I really don't know how to handle the situation and would appreciate other peoples thoughts.

Thanks for your help!
Cass

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Sandra Dodd

What I'm going to point out from your questions is the way you've couched it as a great struggle with winners and losers.

-=-I am looking for suggestions on the best way to handle Santa, the tooth fairy and the Easter bunny.-=-

"To handle" Santa? They're not real people. I know it's a normal everyday expression, but it ounds there as though there's a struggle between you and this small army of "mythical beings."

-=-I feel like I've been forced into this lie by my society -=-

This is very dramatic. It might not seem that way to you. If not, it may be because you're used to thinking of things in harsh, dramatic ways in which you are a powerless victim.

-=-...and questioned my mom, who confessed. I remember being heart broken, feeling betrayed and wondering what else they were lying to me about.-=-

It might be a personality trait of yours to feeel huge emotion about things, or to see yourself as forced and betrayed.

So before you consider any of the ideas people might bring to you or link here for you to read, this is important:

Reposition yourself, on the battlefield you have created in your mind, in this way: You are your child's partner. You're doing things together. You're helping her have a nice life. Nobody is forcing you to betray her or break her heart. It's not that life-or-death a deal.

When she says "Santa is real, right?" you could say "there are guys dressed like Santa in malls. They're acting. There are people pretending to be Santa in movies. That's not the real Santa."

You could give her information that is true and helpful to help her figure it out.

What I told my kids was "I never saw Santa, but what I do know is then I put a stocking out at night, there were toys and candy in the morning, so I think you ought to put a stocking up."

Say what IS true. You don't need to embroider or explain how he will get down a chimney or through a locked door. You could say "Who knows?" Or "It's something that just happens differently different places."

But be calmer within your own soul. Don't feel helpless and forced. And don't tell us you don't feel helpless and forced because noone pressed you to write to us, and you chose your own words. You might deny the feeling, but your word choices do show something of your feelings.

These will help:

http://sandradodd.com/choices
http://sandradodd.com/negativity
http://sandradodd.com/phrases

Sandra




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Katharina

Hi,
My name is Katharina, and I've been listening and reading on this list for more than a year now. This is my first post, and I'd like to apologize upfront for the fact that my English probably isn't correct all the time (I'm native German), and that my response might swerve a bit form the topic of 'unschooling'. The subject hit a nerve.

I agree with Sandra in a way that my experience is that adults seem to have more dramatic feelings around the subject of "the truth about fairies and other mystical beings", than children do. Like as if adults mostly feel a need to proof that they exist or they don't in some kind of scientific way. I'd like to share a brief story of my daughter's take on the subject, because I feel it might help to see a more light hearted approach.

My daughter (8 yrs) was once asked in her preschool (4 yrs old; we started unschooling after her kindergarten year) to choose an animal and do some research to find out what the animal' eats, where it lives and other things. My daughter chose the unicorn and the teachers were very worried about her choice. How would she find out about what a unicorn eats and where it lives, and do a presentation to her class? They didn't want her to have a negative experience with this project. So they talked to me hoping to get some idea's on how to resolve the "problem". I asked them if they had asked my daughter how she intended to do the project. It turned out that they had been so worried that she would find out that there is no unicorn walking around, that they hadn't even asked her about her ideas. The teachers were convinced that unicorns don't exist as animals which you can research, and they assumed that my daughter would feel very bad if she was to find out about that truth.
They finally asked her - and her answer to it: "This is very easy. I close my eyes and then I see everything. The unicorn, where it lives and what is eats, it's friends and other stuff. And then I draw it on paper."
And when the boys in her class were teasing and challenging her, saying that there aren't any unicorns and all of her presentation is nonsense, she responded: " Just because you can't see them when you close your eyes, doesn't mean they don't exist. I see them."

I would ask my kids what they believe about Santa and leave it there, and when their believe changes (and it very likely will), just go with it.

Best
Katharina

--- In [email protected], "CASS KOTRBA" <caskot@...> wrote:
>
> I am looking for suggestions on the best way to handle Santa, the tooth fairy and the Easter bunny. I have never wanted to lie to my children but I feel like I've been forced into this lie by my society and now I don't know how to get out of it. Initially I tried to take a light hearted approach to the subject and let on to the children that it was a game we were playing but my daughter (now 10) is in love with the idea that these beings really exist, love her and bring her gifts. She says things like "Some people don't believe in Santa but I do. He's real, right mommy?". I've tried saying "What do you think?" and she 100% thinks it's true and seems to want very much to continue believing it. My son ,8, is very quiet on the subject and I really don't know what he thinks but I haven't pursued it with him because I don't know what to say. When I was a kid my brother and I found a Santa suit hanging in a closet at my grandma's house and questioned my mom, who confessed. I remember being heart broken, feeling betrayed and wondering what else they were lying to me about. I don't want my kids to have that type of experience and it is important to me to be honest with them but in the past I have felt like telling them would deprive them of their fun. I'm thinking I should start breaking it to them gently but am unsure how to proceed. I really don't know how to handle the situation and would appreciate other peoples thoughts.
>
> Thanks for your help!
> Cass
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Julie Batt

Because of religious beliefs, I've known several people that don't "do Santa", including my parents with my younger sisters. Santa was explained as something fun to believe in and pretend. What's funny, is my sisters wanted so desperately to believe (maybe because of society and friends who believed), they convinced themselves he was real and believed it for years.

Friends of mine have talked about the origin of Santa (St. Nick), that he was a real man once upon a time, with their children.

I've felt similarly that I didn't want to lie to my children, but my husband fondly remembers Santa so we indulge. I try to keep things vague, turning it back to my kids, "he's real as long as you believe," kinda like the polar express movie. My older has asked what happens when you stop believing and I've told him, "then mom and dad bring the presents." I think he's suspected for 3+ years now, but he hasn't made up his mind yet. He talks about Disneyland and how he thinks the characters are just people dressed up. I don't affirm or deny, but I say, "but it sure is fun to pretend then?"

So kinda like the unicorn story, it's not that Santa *isn't* real, cuz he is in her mind as long as she chooses and as long as you keep putting out those presents in secret.

Julie Batt

Stephanie Selby

Well I feel out of place! But I believe in Santa. At 19, I secretly hoped
he would still visit in my apartment with goods, though I knew it wouldn't
really happen. To me, Santa is that feeling you get around Christmastime,
the feeling Christmas inspires in people. We, as a society, try to look out
for one another, we try to be more caring, and we try to give, even those
crazy people in the mall that are stressed out and cranky are there because
they care about someone in their lives. We get together and try to create
something nice for friends and family. Maybe this started when winter was
about to show it's face and we all knew it was coming so this was a coming
together time, maybe it started because the little amount of oil lasted
just long enough, maybe it started with Jesus, but it has culminated in our
Holiday with a symbolic big jolly red fella. Around that time of year
something magical happens in our society. He's a symbol of that feeling and
of that time and I feel warm when I see his jolly face. So we celebrate
with him as our spirit of Christmas, reminding us to be kind to one
another. So when our children ask if he is real, well the feeling of
Christmas is alive if you are looking for it, and that is real. The time of
actively giving and thinking of someone other than yourself, is being
someone's Santa. That any of us can be Santa. I know things shouldn't be
done just once a year, but isn't it great that our society tries at least
once a year to actively do something, that's Santa.

I guess it's how you look at it and what that can mean for your children.
And we do tell them about St. Nick, and about how different cultures
celebrate this time of year.
Stephanie

On Sat, Nov 10, 2012 at 10:51 AM, Julie Batt <julie@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> Because of religious beliefs, I've known several people that don't "do
> Santa", including my parents with my younger sisters. Santa was explained
> as something fun to believe in and pretend. What's funny, is my sisters
> wanted so desperately to believe (maybe because of society and friends who
> believed), they convinced themselves he was real and believed it for years.
>
> Friends of mine have talked about the origin of Santa (St. Nick), that he
> was a real man once upon a time, with their children.
>
> I've felt similarly that I didn't want to lie to my children, but my
> husband fondly remembers Santa so we indulge. I try to keep things vague,
> turning it back to my kids, "he's real as long as you believe," kinda like
> the polar express movie. My older has asked what happens when you stop
> believing and I've told him, "then mom and dad bring the presents." I think
> he's suspected for 3+ years now, but he hasn't made up his mind yet. He
> talks about Disneyland and how he thinks the characters are just people
> dressed up. I don't affirm or deny, but I say, "but it sure is fun to
> pretend then?"
>
> So kinda like the unicorn story, it's not that Santa *isn't* real, cuz he
> is in her mind as long as she chooses and as long as you keep putting out
> those presents in secret.
>
> Julie Batt
>
>


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Robert and Colleen

***I guess it's how you look at it and what that can mean for your children.
And we do tell them about St. Nick, and about how different cultures
celebrate this time of year.***



If I think about Christmas intersecting with unschooling, I don't think
about "lying to children." I think about sharing family traditions - in our
case, festive meals, doing for others, time with family, secret surprise
homemade presents, Santa filling stockings, etc. I think about exploring
how other families and other cultures celebrate Christmas - relevant in our
particular family as we blend in foods and traditions from stemming from
Poland, Cuba, etc. I think about how when he was four or five, my son (now
9) was rather annoyed :-) when he discovered that the woman I work for is
Jewish and chooses to celebrate both Hanukkah and Christmas - he immediately
wanted to know when we would begin also celebrating both holidays. We
touched base with her right away, got some suggestions, and added a
mini-Hanukkah to our December that year :-) The next couple years, he
wanted only Christmas - then last year Hanukkah resurfaced for him and he
was *delighted* when an elderly non-holiday-celebrating friend broke with
her own bah-humbug sort of December, went and got him a couple presents,
wrapped them in blue and white Star of David paper, printed a bunch of
information about Hanukkah from the internet, and invited him over for a day
of fun and exploring new traditions. When it comes to some people we've
encountered over the years, unschooling (in terms of sharing the joy so
present in learning and in exploring new things) seems to be sort of
contagious :-)



Movies are a fun part of unschooling in our family, and we often watch
Christmas movies together - movies that, if one is paying attention :-)
can't help but sneak in the idea that Santa might not *exactly* be just one
guy in a red suit who sneaks down chimneys on 12/24 all over the world.
Arthur Christmas - A Christmas Story - Home Alone - The Santa Clause - Polar
Express - Muppet Christmas Carol - How the Grinch Stole Christmas. we've
watched these and tons more, and in just about every one, characters
question whether Santa is "real" or talk about how Christmas only works "if
you believe."



Being together and doing things together - also a big part of unschooling in
our family. In that vein, my son has always been welcome at the social
service agency for which I work part-time (and have since before he was
born). He knows about how people bring in donations of presents and coats
and food for children who otherwise wouldn't have Christmas presents under
the tree or a holiday meal, because he's seen it firsthand, and has taken
part in sorting Toys for Tots presents. He has met ex-convicts who are also
parents, parents who are on work-release, kids who are in foster care or who
live with their families in homeless shelters - all of whom have a different
Christmas experience than what happens at our house. And being around all
different people with all different holiday experiences and expectations has
provided plenty of opportunity for questions, conversations, and learning.
That part might not be typical, kids and families and parents of all sorts
and situations being right there in all unschooled-kids' lives - but
certainly walking around and seeing the Salvation Army bell-ringers, the
Toys for Tots donation boxes, etc. would seem to me to provide plenty of
conversation starters for those kids who are interested in such ideas as
"why doesn't Santa really bring presents to EVERYONE who believes??" :-)



So those are just a handful of examples of things we've done - everyone's
examples and priorities will be unique. But we don't look at it as a
holiday that Has To Be One Way. We don't look at it as a Lie. We look at
it as a fun time - an excuse to celebrate, eat good food, and enjoy. When
my son was 2, we told him some people believe Santa comes on Christmas Eve
and brings kids presents. He said he believed that. And ever since then,
we've referred to it as a belief - not a Fact. We've shared lots of things
(as above) that give him the opportunity to question and wonder and think
and ponder and develop his own ideas about Santa, holidays, traditions, and
celebrations. And to me that's unschooling intersecting Christmas. What
does he think? What does he want to do? What does he want to believe?
What is important to others in our family (togetherness, etc.) and how can
we incorporate what we all want to do during what, for many people all over
the world, is a special time of year.



Colleen







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Meredith

"Robert and Colleen" <3potatoes@...> wrote:
>> If I think about Christmas intersecting with unschooling, I don't think
> about "lying to children." I think about sharing family traditions

Since I don't really have fond recollections of family traditions, I found it helped me to step back from thinking about holidays (including brithdays, "summer holidays" and long weekends) in terms of Tradition and instead touch base with the principles I wanted to express in my life. That has made it much easier for me to see what my kids find wonderful and valuable and intersting about holidays rather than dragging all my own baggage into the mix.

About three years ago Morgan declared she wanted a christmas tree. No-one else in the family had any desire for one - if anything we all (Ray and George and I) shuddered at the thought for different reasons. Ray and George dislike the annual tree harvest and I had baggage around the family ritual of Decorating The Tree. We agreed to find a small one to put in Mo's room, since she was so eager for the thing - we all wanted to be kind and gracious to her and found her enthusiasm charming for its own sake. Then she discovered one could buy pink artificial trees at Walmart - I don't know how... although one of our neighbors may have had one in the yard, he loves tacky outdoor xmas decor. Ironically, we all loved the idea so much we put it in the living room and Mo spent days making paper decorations for it.

George reminded me that when Mo was younger we explained Santa as a kind of imaginary friend and so "real" in that sense - real to the individual on some personal level. It was an idea that allowed us both to step past our own Santa baggage and be sweet in whatever way worked for Mo - if she wanted us to play along with her and her imaginary friend, we could be okay with that.

Not long ago, after Mo had eaten all the chocolate out of her halloween candy, she asked George to take her out to buy some peanut butter cups for me, since she had no more to share. It was sweet of her. Being sweet to the people we love is an ongoing theme in our family, and I'm glad of it. My life gets to be full of sweetness all year round.

---Meredith