Dealing with Christmas Expectations and Anticipation
o_jeansullivan
Last night, Dec 22nd, my husband and I decided to let the kids have their Christmas gifts. Our eldest, age 4.5, is "gifted" in that she meets all of the overexciteabilities for gifted children including intellectual, emotional, physical, and sensory. She is very intense, highly intelligent, and gets upset if things do not work out as she hoped. My husband and I realized that this year she was on a fast track for a total meltdown with anticipation for her gifts. We were also exhausted from her constant questions and worries. For the last two or three months, we've been preparing her for Christmas when she asked or had concerns. It went well in that DD was happy with our gifts, whereas when she received a box of gifts from her grandparents earlier in the week, she was quite upset that the gifts were not things she liked. We've talked about being thankful for any gifts we receive. But she is 4.5 and is very honest. She didn't think the toy from my brother was thoughtful.
While I was growing up, my older brother had the same anxiety about gifts and holidays. I looked forward to the surprises. I know that on quite a few occasions, my parents let my brother see his gifts ahead of time to calm him down.
Now that I am a mother, I am beginning to detest holidays and gift giving because it causes so much heartache for my daughter. My husband and I are worried about her birthday in February and next Christmas as well. We're wondering what other families do? We don't pretend in the big fat elf. We don't make promises about getting certain gifts. But we've considered not celebrating Christmas, which would be very disappointing because of all of the fun non gift giving tradition that goes along. We've considered maybe going on a vacation. We've considered buying only one gift. We've considered taking our daughter on a stroll on Amazon.com and letting her pick out a certain dollar amount in gifts. We've considered not giving any gifts at all, but to just have fun surprises throughout the year. But every one of these ideas is as arbitrary is waiting until Christmas to open gifts.
The bottom line is that we want our daughter to not be overwhelmed. We want our son (age 20 months) to not have to be put in a position of always pushing his wants and desires aside because of his highly emotional sister (this was my position growing up). I know that next year is a long way away. But with my daughter, we need to be prepared. She has already asked me questions about next year.
I would appreciate some advice and perspective and to find out what other families in this group do for the holidays/birthdays
While I was growing up, my older brother had the same anxiety about gifts and holidays. I looked forward to the surprises. I know that on quite a few occasions, my parents let my brother see his gifts ahead of time to calm him down.
Now that I am a mother, I am beginning to detest holidays and gift giving because it causes so much heartache for my daughter. My husband and I are worried about her birthday in February and next Christmas as well. We're wondering what other families do? We don't pretend in the big fat elf. We don't make promises about getting certain gifts. But we've considered not celebrating Christmas, which would be very disappointing because of all of the fun non gift giving tradition that goes along. We've considered maybe going on a vacation. We've considered buying only one gift. We've considered taking our daughter on a stroll on Amazon.com and letting her pick out a certain dollar amount in gifts. We've considered not giving any gifts at all, but to just have fun surprises throughout the year. But every one of these ideas is as arbitrary is waiting until Christmas to open gifts.
The bottom line is that we want our daughter to not be overwhelmed. We want our son (age 20 months) to not have to be put in a position of always pushing his wants and desires aside because of his highly emotional sister (this was my position growing up). I know that next year is a long way away. But with my daughter, we need to be prepared. She has already asked me questions about next year.
I would appreciate some advice and perspective and to find out what other families in this group do for the holidays/birthdays
Sandra Dodd
-=Our eldest, age 4.5, is "gifted" in that she meets all of the overexciteabilities for gifted children including intellectual, emotional, physical, and sensory. She is very intense, highly intelligent, and gets upset if things do not work out as she hoped. -=-
It isn't good for you, for her, or for the purposes of this list for you to consider that to be "gifted."
In the balance of life, if someone is making other people's lives better, that's a gift. If they're making other people's lives worse (and their own worse) there's no gift whatsoever in that.
So speaking of gifts...
-=- But we've considered not celebrating Christmas, which would be very disappointing because of all of the fun non gift giving tradition that goes along. We've considered maybe going on a vacation. We've considered buying only one gift. We've considered taking our daughter on a stroll on Amazon.com and letting her pick out a certain dollar amount in gifts. We've considered not giving any gifts at all, but to just have fun surprises throughout the year.-=-
She's four. You're planning to change your family's future plans because you have an impatient four year old? You can't change the world. Help her live in the world.
-=-We've considered not giving any gifts at all, but to just have fun surprises throughout the year.-=-
Why would you need to choose one or the other of those extremes?
-=But she is 4.5 and is very honest.-=-
Tactless. Don't praise or glorify rudeness. It will not help your daughter in any way whatsoever.
-=-Now that I am a mother, I am beginning to detest holidays and gift giving because it causes so much heartache for my daughter. -=-
"Detest" is way too strong an emotion for something that could eventually be joyful for all of you.
-=-We've considered not giving any gifts at all, but to just have fun surprises throughout the year. But every one of these ideas is as arbitrary is waiting until Christmas to open gifts. -=-
Waiting for Christmas is not arbitrary. It's not a law, it's not "required," but it's not arbitrary. Christmas 2031 is already on the calendar; no one will decide randomly when Christmas will be next year, or any year.
-=-I know that next year is a long way away. But with my daughter, we need to be prepared. She has already asked me questions about next year. -=-
Answer her questions. Maybe lots of the answers will be "it's too soon to know yet" or "I don't know" or "what do you hope will happen?" Nothing to detest about that.
Both of these crossed my mind while I was reading your post:
http://sandradodd.com/negativity
http://sandradodd.com/truck
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
It isn't good for you, for her, or for the purposes of this list for you to consider that to be "gifted."
In the balance of life, if someone is making other people's lives better, that's a gift. If they're making other people's lives worse (and their own worse) there's no gift whatsoever in that.
So speaking of gifts...
-=- But we've considered not celebrating Christmas, which would be very disappointing because of all of the fun non gift giving tradition that goes along. We've considered maybe going on a vacation. We've considered buying only one gift. We've considered taking our daughter on a stroll on Amazon.com and letting her pick out a certain dollar amount in gifts. We've considered not giving any gifts at all, but to just have fun surprises throughout the year.-=-
She's four. You're planning to change your family's future plans because you have an impatient four year old? You can't change the world. Help her live in the world.
-=-We've considered not giving any gifts at all, but to just have fun surprises throughout the year.-=-
Why would you need to choose one or the other of those extremes?
-=But she is 4.5 and is very honest.-=-
Tactless. Don't praise or glorify rudeness. It will not help your daughter in any way whatsoever.
-=-Now that I am a mother, I am beginning to detest holidays and gift giving because it causes so much heartache for my daughter. -=-
"Detest" is way too strong an emotion for something that could eventually be joyful for all of you.
-=-We've considered not giving any gifts at all, but to just have fun surprises throughout the year. But every one of these ideas is as arbitrary is waiting until Christmas to open gifts. -=-
Waiting for Christmas is not arbitrary. It's not a law, it's not "required," but it's not arbitrary. Christmas 2031 is already on the calendar; no one will decide randomly when Christmas will be next year, or any year.
-=-I know that next year is a long way away. But with my daughter, we need to be prepared. She has already asked me questions about next year. -=-
Answer her questions. Maybe lots of the answers will be "it's too soon to know yet" or "I don't know" or "what do you hope will happen?" Nothing to detest about that.
Both of these crossed my mind while I was reading your post:
http://sandradodd.com/negativity
http://sandradodd.com/truck
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Meredith
"o_jeansullivan" <o_sully@...> wrote:
It can help to spread your giving out over the year, rather than leaving so much for "special days". Don't save big gifts for holidays at all - get them as you can afford them and the joy will be as great, without the overwhelm of six other very wonderful new things.
You can Still do gifts for special days, too, or rely on extended family to fill in for you on those occasions and give kids the option, when something comes in the mail, of opening it right away or waiting. Some kids will choose to wait, others to open - and it can change! Mo opened one set of presents from one grandmother yesterday, but today got some from another and decided to wait until xmas to open them.
Next year, and for her birthday, maybe create a wish list online somewhere, so they have a better idea of how to shop for her. Also, if you have a blog or make regular status updates about your kids, extended family can keep up with what they like and get more appropriate gifts.
In the moment, I'd commiserate. It's hard to look forward to something and have it fall flat. That's sad. Be the warm shoulder to cry on rather than trying to talk her out of her feelings.
If grandparents aren't present when she opens the gifts, there's no issue. Send them a thank-you note and mention in particular anything she Did like, if only a little. I just did that today with the first grandma, who sent a box of gifts for Morgan (10) that... well, she was more interested in the wrapping paper than most of them. But she did like the flannel pajamas so I got a picture of her wearing them and sent it to granny. She doesn't need to know the rest was duddsville.
Four year olds don't often have a lot of social graces, yet! You can coach her on how to be polite when you get something you don't want as she gets older - she doesn't Have to be grateful. I'm not grateful when someone tries to give me something I don't want, but I know how and when to smile and be gracious.
You can't teach gratitude! What you can do is fill your daughter's life with enough joy and a sense of abundance she can't help but overflow to others.
If you're filling your kids days with joy and a sense of abundance, then you can celebrate everything you like about xmas and birthdays without needing much in the way of gifts - just what the family sends, or a few small things in stockings. It doesn't have to be either-or.
I don't see getting things as interest arises and money comes available as "arbitrary". It seems logical and sensible. We do a certain amount of heavy shopping right after xmas because George's mom sends xmas money. But he's also self employed, so money tends to come in chunks - so it's not out of the ordinary for us to say "dad sold a guitar! what's on the wish list?" or even just go on a celebratory spree.
---Meredith
>> Now that I am a mother, I am beginning to detest holidays and gift giving because it causes so much heartache for my daughter.*****************
It can help to spread your giving out over the year, rather than leaving so much for "special days". Don't save big gifts for holidays at all - get them as you can afford them and the joy will be as great, without the overwhelm of six other very wonderful new things.
You can Still do gifts for special days, too, or rely on extended family to fill in for you on those occasions and give kids the option, when something comes in the mail, of opening it right away or waiting. Some kids will choose to wait, others to open - and it can change! Mo opened one set of presents from one grandmother yesterday, but today got some from another and decided to wait until xmas to open them.
>>when she received a box of gifts from her grandparents earlier in the week, she was quite upset that the gifts were not things she liked.*****************
Next year, and for her birthday, maybe create a wish list online somewhere, so they have a better idea of how to shop for her. Also, if you have a blog or make regular status updates about your kids, extended family can keep up with what they like and get more appropriate gifts.
In the moment, I'd commiserate. It's hard to look forward to something and have it fall flat. That's sad. Be the warm shoulder to cry on rather than trying to talk her out of her feelings.
>> We've talked about being thankful for any gifts we receive. But she is 4.5 and is very honest.*****************
If grandparents aren't present when she opens the gifts, there's no issue. Send them a thank-you note and mention in particular anything she Did like, if only a little. I just did that today with the first grandma, who sent a box of gifts for Morgan (10) that... well, she was more interested in the wrapping paper than most of them. But she did like the flannel pajamas so I got a picture of her wearing them and sent it to granny. She doesn't need to know the rest was duddsville.
Four year olds don't often have a lot of social graces, yet! You can coach her on how to be polite when you get something you don't want as she gets older - she doesn't Have to be grateful. I'm not grateful when someone tries to give me something I don't want, but I know how and when to smile and be gracious.
>>She didn't think the toy from my brother was thoughtful.So? She's 4. Be nice for her, so she can see what grace looks like. "Don't be such a meany, say thank you" isn't what grace looks like ;) Turning to the other person and saying "thank you" over your daughter's head is much, much more graceful.
You can't teach gratitude! What you can do is fill your daughter's life with enough joy and a sense of abundance she can't help but overflow to others.
>>we've considered not celebrating Christmas, which would be very disappointing because of all of the fun non gift giving tradition that goes along.**************
If you're filling your kids days with joy and a sense of abundance, then you can celebrate everything you like about xmas and birthdays without needing much in the way of gifts - just what the family sends, or a few small things in stockings. It doesn't have to be either-or.
>> We've considered not giving any gifts at all, but to just have fun surprises throughout the year. But every one of these ideas is as arbitrary is waiting until Christmas to open gifts.****************
I don't see getting things as interest arises and money comes available as "arbitrary". It seems logical and sensible. We do a certain amount of heavy shopping right after xmas because George's mom sends xmas money. But he's also self employed, so money tends to come in chunks - so it's not out of the ordinary for us to say "dad sold a guitar! what's on the wish list?" or even just go on a celebratory spree.
---Meredith
Sandra Dodd
-=-You can't teach gratitude! -=-
You can coach courtesy, though.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
You can coach courtesy, though.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
o_jeansullivan
When I read your response, I realized you took great offense with my use of "gifted." I wonder, do you take issue with calling a child autistic if she meets the criteria of autism? Do you take issue with stating that someone has cancer, epilepsy or developmental delays? Giftedness is a condition like any of those in the previous sentence. Do not consider giftedness a pejorative term inappropriate to this list. I'm using "gifted" to describe my daughter, who not only is highly intelligent, but has many of the problems that often plague people described as gifted. A psychologist named Dabrowski came up with a list of five areas in which gifted people can have a kind of super development. The areas are intellectual, psychomotor, imaginational, sensory, and emotional. Google this and you can gather some knowledge that giftedness is not a term of superiority. It is a term used to describe a child or an adult who over-experiences life, who over-feels, who over-examines. Know, too, that while gifted children may be super developed in one area, they are often underdeveloped in another.
Most two-year-olds do not obsess over death, asking a multitude of questions about why people die, what death is like, why people can't keep living on earth. My daughter did. My daughter cannot stand water touching her eyes; it is torture. I can only describe it as the same feeling you would have if shampoo got in your eyes. This is sensory overexcitability. She has many. The tastes of certain foods make her go crazy. It feels better to her to have her shoes on the wrong feet. Brushing her hair makes her head hurt. She wore the same headband every single day for an entire year because it made her head feel good to wear it.
Children have imaginary worlds. My daughter wants to know about time travel and if she can go back in time to bring back great-grandparents she would like to meet. She had an obsession with dinosaurs and kept developing scenarios of dinosaurs returning to earth. She questions not just why they would come back, but how people would have to change to allow them to come back. She asks questions constantly and an "I don't know" response generates utter frustration. It is unacceptable to her.
I could list hundreds of these types of things to describe who my daughter is. She lives life in overdrive.
It can be exhausting and exhilarating at times. Holidays are draining for her because she cannot sit back and enjoy the ride. She analyzes every part and gift giving and the anticipation of gift giving has proven too much for her, which is why I asked this group of parents who seem to understand that parenting requires flexibility, patience and love to offer suggestions.
My child's needs include peacefulness. Holidays are anything but peaceful because she cannot stop her mind from overanalyzing, obsessing, and building up ideal scenarios which lead to utter disappointment.
We call television her out because we can turn on a Thomas show and her mind will rest for that period. She now says to us when she gets really upset that she needs to watch something. After she opened the gift from my brother, after she had tears and questions, she stated that she needed to watch TV. Television helps her cope in this world. But we cannot turn on the TV for the duration of December. We need other tools and ideas.
We are doing are best to teach her manners. Her honesty and analyzing are difficult to circumvent.
Most two-year-olds do not obsess over death, asking a multitude of questions about why people die, what death is like, why people can't keep living on earth. My daughter did. My daughter cannot stand water touching her eyes; it is torture. I can only describe it as the same feeling you would have if shampoo got in your eyes. This is sensory overexcitability. She has many. The tastes of certain foods make her go crazy. It feels better to her to have her shoes on the wrong feet. Brushing her hair makes her head hurt. She wore the same headband every single day for an entire year because it made her head feel good to wear it.
Children have imaginary worlds. My daughter wants to know about time travel and if she can go back in time to bring back great-grandparents she would like to meet. She had an obsession with dinosaurs and kept developing scenarios of dinosaurs returning to earth. She questions not just why they would come back, but how people would have to change to allow them to come back. She asks questions constantly and an "I don't know" response generates utter frustration. It is unacceptable to her.
I could list hundreds of these types of things to describe who my daughter is. She lives life in overdrive.
It can be exhausting and exhilarating at times. Holidays are draining for her because she cannot sit back and enjoy the ride. She analyzes every part and gift giving and the anticipation of gift giving has proven too much for her, which is why I asked this group of parents who seem to understand that parenting requires flexibility, patience and love to offer suggestions.
My child's needs include peacefulness. Holidays are anything but peaceful because she cannot stop her mind from overanalyzing, obsessing, and building up ideal scenarios which lead to utter disappointment.
>The world is not enough for my daughter. We have to change things for her or she cannot peacefully just be. Just like you would need to bring along an epipen for someone with a severe bee allergy, for a child like mine, we have to bring along a toolbox to help her cope when she is unexpectedly stung by a life scenario.
> She's four. You're planning to change your family's future plans because you have an impatient four year old? You can't change the world. Help her live in the world.
We call television her out because we can turn on a Thomas show and her mind will rest for that period. She now says to us when she gets really upset that she needs to watch something. After she opened the gift from my brother, after she had tears and questions, she stated that she needed to watch TV. Television helps her cope in this world. But we cannot turn on the TV for the duration of December. We need other tools and ideas.
> -=-We've considered not giving any gifts at all, but to just have fun surprises throughout the year.-=-This is not an either or, but a thought of something we could do.
>
> Why would you need to choose one or the other of those extremes?
> -=But she is 4.5 and is very honest.-=-Calling my daughter "tactless" is inappropriate if you understand the overthinking she does. In her mind, my brother should have realized that a toy stethoscope is not something she would want because of a hundred different reasons. I know this because she told me a bunch of those reasons. To her, a gift that she doesn't want means that the gift giver doesn't understand her. This leads to emotional turmoil. Why should she be thankful that someone doesn't understand her?
>
> Tactless. Don't praise or glorify rudeness. It will not help your daughter in any way whatsoever.
We are doing are best to teach her manners. Her honesty and analyzing are difficult to circumvent.
> -=-Now that I am a mother, I am beginning to detest holidays and gift giving because it causes so much heartache for my daughter. -=-I'm sure when my daughter is ten, thirteen, twenty she will be able to understand Christmas differently. As a young child, however, she is overwhelmed. As her parents, we want to know what other people do and how other people cope with children who have some of the same emotions as our daughter.
>
> "Detest" is way too strong an emotion for something that could eventually be joyful for all of you.
> -=-We've considered not giving any gifts at all, but to just have fun surprises throughout the year. But every one of these ideas is as arbitrary is waiting until Christmas to open gifts. -=-It is arbitrary to open gifts on Christmas morning just as it is an arbitrary decision to open gifts three days before Most people I know who celebrate Christmas open gifts on Christmas morning, but that is still a decision that comes from tradition that to me seems arbitrary.
>
> Waiting for Christmas is not arbitrary. It's not a law, it's not "required," but it's not arbitrary. Christmas 2031 is already on the calendar; no one will decide randomly when Christmas will be next year, or any year.
>
> -=-I know that next year is a long way away. But with my daughter, we need to be prepared. She has already asked me questions about next year. -=-"It's too soon to know yet" will never be acceptable for a child like mine. When she asks a question, she needs truth. This is her nature and it cannot be changed. We recognize who she is and know that we need to parent her in a special way.
>
> Answer her questions. Maybe lots of the answers will be "it's too soon to know yet" or "I don't know" or "what do you hope will happen?" Nothing to detest about that.
>
Joyce Fetteroll
On Dec 24, 2011, at 6:19 AM, o_jeansullivan wrote:
There isn't a trait your "gifted" daughter has that another, average child can't also have. Your daughter may have more of the traits gathered into one child. She may be intense. But each of her reactions are within the normal range of all humans.
Labels can help parents narrow down a search for helpful information.
But labels on a child can get a parents' vision stuck on the child acting that way because she's x. Once the box gets labeled everything the child does that isn't average gets seen through that label. Which makes it harder to see the child.
A friend had a son on the autistic spectrum. One day she listed off several issues his autism caused him to have. But nearly all of them were areas my daughter -- who is a typical kid -- also had. For her, these were issues to work on, to fix. For my daughter, they were things she needed help with until she didn't any more.
That small point of view shift from traits caused by the labeled condition to areas the child needs partnering with can have a huge positive effect on the relationship between a parent and child.
If you think your relationship is fine, good! You're doing something that's compensating for the damage that labeling a child can cause. But please be sensitive to the fact that others are reading along gleaning information too. They may not have the advantage you do. They may be damaging their relationship with their children through a label. And it will be a huge help to them to see why dropping a label can be a big help.
Conventional parenting would try to squash her reactions, make her feel wrong, bad, try to fix her.
Mindful parenting will cast you in the role of her partner. You will be her tact. You can coach her before the fact. You can help her through the process. And you will do this for her as her partner, as her fellow team member, and other things until she can do it herself.
How are you helping her have control over what she can? What parts of the situation does she have control over and what doesn't she?
Sympathy for not being able to control everything may be the best you can do. You can't fix her strong emotions. You shouldn't try. But you can provide a nest and tools and help for her to try things to find things that work. (It won't be immediate. It may take a long time.)
But just because her emotions are strong doesn't give her the right to hurt others. *You* need to be the buffer between her and the world. You need to be the buffer between the world and her.
I suspect you think that's what you're doing. Yes, understanding how she's seeing the world and why she's reacting the way she is, is hugely helpful in growing a great relationship! But your understanding should guide your actions, not excuse her reactions.
What are the ways you can help your brother get to know her?
A gift indicates someone was thinking of her and wanted to do something that would make her happy. The *real* gift is the thought and time. If he missed the mark, it's more likely he doesn't have ways to understand her.
I'm not suggesting you fix her wrongness by telling her that's how she should think. I'm suggesting making others' point of view be part of the atmosphere when you're making choices throughout the day. Think of others. Help her think of others. She may not be capable of empathy or point of view shift yet, but it should be part of her environment because it's valuable for everyone. A baby can't recycle but that doesn't mean recycling's on hold until the baby can do it ;-)
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> When I read your response, I realized you took great offense with my use of "gifted."It's not personal. It's practical. It helps list members think more clearly.
There isn't a trait your "gifted" daughter has that another, average child can't also have. Your daughter may have more of the traits gathered into one child. She may be intense. But each of her reactions are within the normal range of all humans.
Labels can help parents narrow down a search for helpful information.
But labels on a child can get a parents' vision stuck on the child acting that way because she's x. Once the box gets labeled everything the child does that isn't average gets seen through that label. Which makes it harder to see the child.
A friend had a son on the autistic spectrum. One day she listed off several issues his autism caused him to have. But nearly all of them were areas my daughter -- who is a typical kid -- also had. For her, these were issues to work on, to fix. For my daughter, they were things she needed help with until she didn't any more.
That small point of view shift from traits caused by the labeled condition to areas the child needs partnering with can have a huge positive effect on the relationship between a parent and child.
If you think your relationship is fine, good! You're doing something that's compensating for the damage that labeling a child can cause. But please be sensitive to the fact that others are reading along gleaning information too. They may not have the advantage you do. They may be damaging their relationship with their children through a label. And it will be a huge help to them to see why dropping a label can be a big help.
> Calling my daughter "tactless" is inappropriateTactless will be what other people feel. It's not a judgement of your daughter but of the impact her choices will have on others.
Conventional parenting would try to squash her reactions, make her feel wrong, bad, try to fix her.
Mindful parenting will cast you in the role of her partner. You will be her tact. You can coach her before the fact. You can help her through the process. And you will do this for her as her partner, as her fellow team member, and other things until she can do it herself.
> To her, a gift that she doesn't want means that the gift giver doesn't understand her.What have you and she done to get who she is out there so he could know? What have you and she done to get to know *him* better?
> This leads to emotional turmoil.Feeling you don't have control over a situation generally does. It's a human trait. (Her reactions to the feeling, though, may be larger than average.)
How are you helping her have control over what she can? What parts of the situation does she have control over and what doesn't she?
Sympathy for not being able to control everything may be the best you can do. You can't fix her strong emotions. You shouldn't try. But you can provide a nest and tools and help for her to try things to find things that work. (It won't be immediate. It may take a long time.)
But just because her emotions are strong doesn't give her the right to hurt others. *You* need to be the buffer between her and the world. You need to be the buffer between the world and her.
I suspect you think that's what you're doing. Yes, understanding how she's seeing the world and why she's reacting the way she is, is hugely helpful in growing a great relationship! But your understanding should guide your actions, not excuse her reactions.
> Why should she be thankful that someone doesn't understand her?That question can't be answered in a helpful way. So reframe the question. Think bigger, think beyond the moment, think about what lead up to this gift that missed the mark.
What are the ways you can help your brother get to know her?
A gift indicates someone was thinking of her and wanted to do something that would make her happy. The *real* gift is the thought and time. If he missed the mark, it's more likely he doesn't have ways to understand her.
I'm not suggesting you fix her wrongness by telling her that's how she should think. I'm suggesting making others' point of view be part of the atmosphere when you're making choices throughout the day. Think of others. Help her think of others. She may not be capable of empathy or point of view shift yet, but it should be part of her environment because it's valuable for everyone. A baby can't recycle but that doesn't mean recycling's on hold until the baby can do it ;-)
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-"It's too soon to know yet" will never be acceptable for a child like mine. When she asks a question, she needs truth. -=-
It's too soon to know IS truth, when it's too soon to know.
-=-This is her nature and it cannot be changed. We recognize who she is and know that we need to parent her in a special way.-=-
If you're absolutely certain that the principles of unschooling won't work for your daughter, then this list can't help you.
I believe very strongly that the principles of unschooling can help any and every child regardless of the particulars, but unless a parent is willing to relax and consider them, then the child won't have a chance to benefit from the knowledge of successful unschoolers.
http://sandradodd.com/deschooling (at least look at the first story, upper right).
-=-My child's needs include peacefulness.-=-
You know of some children for whom peace isn't needed?
-=- Holidays are anything but peaceful because she cannot stop her mind from overanalyzing, obsessing, and building up ideal scenarios which lead to utter disappointment.-=-
We could help you help her to deal with the way she is.
The first recommendation is to stop calling her all kinds of things and start using her name, and think of her as her name, as a person with human behaviors and instincts with which you can help, as a human on the planet you can help to understand what's going on and why.
The label is getting in your way, because (it seems from what you wrote; if what you wrote is fairly indicative) you're rationalizing and justifying bad behavior and whipping up a world of words and concepts rather than being directly with her in gentle, accepting ways.
http://sandradodd.com/being
-=-We call television her out because we can turn on a Thomas show and her mind will rest for that period. She now says to us when she gets really upset that she needs to watch something. After she opened the gift from my brother, after she had tears and questions, she stated that she needed to watch TV. Television helps her cope in this world. But we cannot turn on the TV for the duration of December. We need other tools and ideas. -=-
If you called television "television," and considered it a choice she was making, rather than "her out," then your life would be simpler.
-=- But we cannot turn on the TV for the duration of December.-=-
Is that arbitrary?
If she has the choice at any moment of watching television or not, then she is empowered to choose. You don't need to "turn on the TV for the duration of December," if you give her choices.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
It's too soon to know IS truth, when it's too soon to know.
-=-This is her nature and it cannot be changed. We recognize who she is and know that we need to parent her in a special way.-=-
If you're absolutely certain that the principles of unschooling won't work for your daughter, then this list can't help you.
I believe very strongly that the principles of unschooling can help any and every child regardless of the particulars, but unless a parent is willing to relax and consider them, then the child won't have a chance to benefit from the knowledge of successful unschoolers.
http://sandradodd.com/deschooling (at least look at the first story, upper right).
-=-My child's needs include peacefulness.-=-
You know of some children for whom peace isn't needed?
-=- Holidays are anything but peaceful because she cannot stop her mind from overanalyzing, obsessing, and building up ideal scenarios which lead to utter disappointment.-=-
We could help you help her to deal with the way she is.
The first recommendation is to stop calling her all kinds of things and start using her name, and think of her as her name, as a person with human behaviors and instincts with which you can help, as a human on the planet you can help to understand what's going on and why.
The label is getting in your way, because (it seems from what you wrote; if what you wrote is fairly indicative) you're rationalizing and justifying bad behavior and whipping up a world of words and concepts rather than being directly with her in gentle, accepting ways.
http://sandradodd.com/being
-=-We call television her out because we can turn on a Thomas show and her mind will rest for that period. She now says to us when she gets really upset that she needs to watch something. After she opened the gift from my brother, after she had tears and questions, she stated that she needed to watch TV. Television helps her cope in this world. But we cannot turn on the TV for the duration of December. We need other tools and ideas. -=-
If you called television "television," and considered it a choice she was making, rather than "her out," then your life would be simpler.
-=- But we cannot turn on the TV for the duration of December.-=-
Is that arbitrary?
If she has the choice at any moment of watching television or not, then she is empowered to choose. You don't need to "turn on the TV for the duration of December," if you give her choices.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-When I read your response, I realized you took great offense with my use of "gifted." -=-
Your "realization" was incorrect.
-=-I wonder, do you take issue with calling a child autistic if she meets the criteria of autism?-=-
On this list, my list, created and maintained to help people understand radical unschooling, I would if the person was talking about anything less than very profound autism, yes. Because it's beside the fact, and much of "the spectrum" is schools and parents wanting to be relieved of helping a child learn to live in the world.
-=- Do you take issue with stating that someone has cancer, epilepsy or developmental delays? -=-
Those are three very different things. Unschooling works the same with all of them, though.
-=-Giftedness is a condition like any of those in the previous sentence. Do not consider giftedness a pejorative term inappropriate to this list. -=-
You are tell me what is appropriate to this ten year old list that I own, but that won't be helpful to you or to the list. I don't think you meant as a pejorative term. Neither do I see it that way. I do see it as a harmful term, to your daughter and to your view of her. It is a step in the wrong direction, if you want to move closer to the kinds of relationships unschoolers on this list have found with their children.
-=-Children have imaginary worlds.-=-
Why are you telling the list that? Do you think we somehow had children without imaginations?
-=- My daughter wants to know about time travel and if she can go back in time to bring back great-grandparents she would like to meet. She had an obsession with dinosaurs and kept developing scenarios of dinosaurs returning to earth. She questions not just why they would come back, but how people would have to change to allow them to come back. She asks questions constantly and an "I don't know" response generates utter frustration. It is unacceptable to her.-=-
Try "There is no way to really know, but what do you think?"
Try drawing pictures with her. Try role playing. Talk about what would surprise the great grandparents. Take it on a path that will help her think more, and that will continue the conversation.
-=-It can be exhausting and exhilarating at times.-=-
True of parenting any child.
-=-Holidays are draining for her because she cannot sit back and enjoy the ride.-=-
True of every child I have ever known. It helps for parents to keep them busy, fed, distracted, surrounded by music or pillows or movies or whatever will calm and maintain them.
-=-She analyzes every part and gift giving and the anticipation of gift giving has proven too much for her, which is why I asked this group of parents who seem to understand that parenting requires flexibility, patience and love to offer suggestions. -=-
You seem to be suggesting that you are very honest, and that we should realize that what has been written was a toy stethoscope you didn't want for a hundred different reasons. Do you feel we are gift givers who don't understand you?
The purpose of this list is to discuss unschooling and what will help bring the readers (anyone reading, not just the original poster) to understand it more clearly.
Your questions are good. The analysis of your questions will help others consider their own beliefs and reactions. Unfortunately, you've asked so near to Christmas that the traffic on the list will be lighter than usual. Fortunately, those who will be more likely to be here will be those whose children are older, who have successfully come through the stage you're in.
-=-We are doing are best to teach her manners. Her honesty and analyzing are difficult to circumvent.-=-
Don't circumvent them. Don't "teach her manners." Help her to understand courtesy and compassion, in small ways, at her level of understanding. Don't circumvent analysis; help turn it to a more productive channel. Don't circumvent honesty; coach her about thinking about the effects of her speech and reactions.
-=-Calling my daughter "tactless" is inappropriate if you understand the overthinking she does. In her mind, -=-
Are you sure about what is inappropriate? What is in her mind, what she's thinking, isn't the issue with tact, although as she gets older and more aware of others, what she's thinking will change as well, unless you tell her yes, that because she's gifted, all of her "honesty" is inavoidable, right, good, and as tactful as she can possibly be considering her condition. Tact has to do with what's offered for others to hear or perceive.
You've been a member of this discussion list for a year. In case you haven't actually been reading it, please review here:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlwaysLearning/
These links might help, too:
http://sandradodd.com/choices
http://sandradodd.com/labels
http://sandradodd.com/words/without
-=-As her parents, we want to know what other people do and how other people cope with children who have some of the same emotions as our daughter. -=-
As experienced unschoolers, we're trying to share that with you, but you're batting these gifts away.
-=-The world is not enough for my daughter. -=-
Where do you plan to live?
http://sandradodd.com/checklists
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Your "realization" was incorrect.
-=-I wonder, do you take issue with calling a child autistic if she meets the criteria of autism?-=-
On this list, my list, created and maintained to help people understand radical unschooling, I would if the person was talking about anything less than very profound autism, yes. Because it's beside the fact, and much of "the spectrum" is schools and parents wanting to be relieved of helping a child learn to live in the world.
-=- Do you take issue with stating that someone has cancer, epilepsy or developmental delays? -=-
Those are three very different things. Unschooling works the same with all of them, though.
-=-Giftedness is a condition like any of those in the previous sentence. Do not consider giftedness a pejorative term inappropriate to this list. -=-
You are tell me what is appropriate to this ten year old list that I own, but that won't be helpful to you or to the list. I don't think you meant as a pejorative term. Neither do I see it that way. I do see it as a harmful term, to your daughter and to your view of her. It is a step in the wrong direction, if you want to move closer to the kinds of relationships unschoolers on this list have found with their children.
-=-Children have imaginary worlds.-=-
Why are you telling the list that? Do you think we somehow had children without imaginations?
-=- My daughter wants to know about time travel and if she can go back in time to bring back great-grandparents she would like to meet. She had an obsession with dinosaurs and kept developing scenarios of dinosaurs returning to earth. She questions not just why they would come back, but how people would have to change to allow them to come back. She asks questions constantly and an "I don't know" response generates utter frustration. It is unacceptable to her.-=-
Try "There is no way to really know, but what do you think?"
Try drawing pictures with her. Try role playing. Talk about what would surprise the great grandparents. Take it on a path that will help her think more, and that will continue the conversation.
-=-It can be exhausting and exhilarating at times.-=-
True of parenting any child.
-=-Holidays are draining for her because she cannot sit back and enjoy the ride.-=-
True of every child I have ever known. It helps for parents to keep them busy, fed, distracted, surrounded by music or pillows or movies or whatever will calm and maintain them.
-=-She analyzes every part and gift giving and the anticipation of gift giving has proven too much for her, which is why I asked this group of parents who seem to understand that parenting requires flexibility, patience and love to offer suggestions. -=-
You seem to be suggesting that you are very honest, and that we should realize that what has been written was a toy stethoscope you didn't want for a hundred different reasons. Do you feel we are gift givers who don't understand you?
The purpose of this list is to discuss unschooling and what will help bring the readers (anyone reading, not just the original poster) to understand it more clearly.
Your questions are good. The analysis of your questions will help others consider their own beliefs and reactions. Unfortunately, you've asked so near to Christmas that the traffic on the list will be lighter than usual. Fortunately, those who will be more likely to be here will be those whose children are older, who have successfully come through the stage you're in.
-=-We are doing are best to teach her manners. Her honesty and analyzing are difficult to circumvent.-=-
Don't circumvent them. Don't "teach her manners." Help her to understand courtesy and compassion, in small ways, at her level of understanding. Don't circumvent analysis; help turn it to a more productive channel. Don't circumvent honesty; coach her about thinking about the effects of her speech and reactions.
-=-Calling my daughter "tactless" is inappropriate if you understand the overthinking she does. In her mind, -=-
Are you sure about what is inappropriate? What is in her mind, what she's thinking, isn't the issue with tact, although as she gets older and more aware of others, what she's thinking will change as well, unless you tell her yes, that because she's gifted, all of her "honesty" is inavoidable, right, good, and as tactful as she can possibly be considering her condition. Tact has to do with what's offered for others to hear or perceive.
You've been a member of this discussion list for a year. In case you haven't actually been reading it, please review here:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlwaysLearning/
These links might help, too:
http://sandradodd.com/choices
http://sandradodd.com/labels
http://sandradodd.com/words/without
-=-As her parents, we want to know what other people do and how other people cope with children who have some of the same emotions as our daughter. -=-
As experienced unschoolers, we're trying to share that with you, but you're batting these gifts away.
-=-The world is not enough for my daughter. -=-
Where do you plan to live?
http://sandradodd.com/checklists
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
maryann
I know you've gotten some very thoughtful responses already. But I fell asleep reading your post, and seemed to have brainstormed some ideas.
At four and a half, your daughter might be able to think about the holidays as a time for doing fun activities with people she loves and thoughtfully choosing gifts for others. Maybe thinking hard about what to get someone will help her see how difficult that is? Maybe also donating things to a charity which she has lovingly selected for children she doesn't even know may help.
We were lucky this year that my (5 yo) son's martial arts instructor "adopted" a needy family for everyone in his classes to buy gifts for. The sensei emailed a little blip about each family member and their general interests, and asked parents (who could afford it and chose to participate) to help their kid shop, let them help pick out what to get, let them help wrap it, etc. It was all very thoughtful, and he will deliver the load of gifts Christmas Eve, as he said he does every year for a family in need.
My son got very involved in thinking about this, and had lots of ideas of what to get each person. He was a little disappointed that we didn't have enough money to buy the dad a guitar or get him a job....But that's part of the idea, to understand reality and be helpful how we can. And I explained about some of the needy family members we have, too, who we want to spend money on, and that probably classmates who have more money or fewer needy family members of their own will donate more to the family. My boy also worried that the kids would get duplicate gifts, so we brainstormed what they could do if that happens (share with each other or a friend, or exchange at walmart, etc.) He also wanted some things for himself at walmart, and I mentioned, Wow, aren't we so lucky our daddy has a job? How sad for families who wouldn't be able to buy their kid Any toy, because they need all their money for food. It was a good experience we were glad to have.
Also, maybe throughout the year, she could help pick out things for other people while shopping. Little things, like, "Oh, don't you think Grandma would like this pen?" Or, what kind of apples do you want to pick out for daddy? Sometimes even, when one of my kids is with me and sees something they want, I ask if they think their sibling would like it too. They pick out the same or something else they think the other would like. Each of them gets excited to present it to the other once we get home. Just a cool sucker or stickers or whatever.
Regarding your daughter's own gifts, some ideas that came to mind which you might consider are:
Have her make a list of exactly what she wants, so that when people ask, you and she can tell them. Amazon even has a Wish List you can email to those interested. We haven't done that, but some people do.
Give her her own wrapping paper, and play around with her with wrapping things. Any time, not just holidays. Maybe wrapped gifts are too exciting because they're rare, sort of like this http://sandradodd.com/t/economics She could wrap up her own toys or wrap up your stuff for you or you could wrap her own thing to surprise her. My son recently started drawing pictures, and when he's done, he often likes to fold or crunch up the paper and give it to us as a surprise. Or he rolls it up like a tube and has me tie a bow on it. He sometimes places these where his dad will find it when he gets home. Daddy always loves them.
Wrap things up for her randomly or frequently. Shampoo, gum, a toy, bananas. If she likes it, just sometimes wrap something you're going to give her anyway, for fun. This could help it not be such a big deal. Something with wrapping paper on it may be pretty, but "the perfect gift" is not necessarily what to expect inside.
Help her get things she really wants throughout the year, so she is not so dependent on holidays to satisfy her needs for the stuff she wants. It's hard to be grateful or see the thoughtfulness of a gift if you're thinking, "Having This means I can't have what I Really want."
Help her to know that having something she didn't want isn't a big deal. Does she think she has to keep it? Does she feel obligated to play with it? Does she think her uncle purposely gave her something she wouldn't like? Maybe tell her about White Elephant gift exchanges or even offer to have one with a group she can participate in. My husband and I do this every year with a group of adult friends and it's fun and funny. Or maybe she could donate the toy to a shelter. She could even include that in her thank you..."It wasn't something I needed, but I'm so happy I got to give it to a kid who will enjoy it." (Depending a lot on how you think the giver would feel.)
Spread out the fun to include After Christmas too, so there is not such anticipation and let down at the end of 12/25. Plan to have a few fun things on the calendar to look forward to, like having friends over, or shopping with Christmas money. Our zoo has a light display that's up through new years. There's ice skating rinks, paint your own pottery, nature walks, etc. The UWG conference is mid-January.
Just a brainstorm list. Hope something is useful.
Merry Christmas,
Maryann
ds 5 1/2, dd 2
Oh, and you might get some general ideas from reading The Highly Sensitive Child http://www.amazon.com/Highly-Sensitive-Child-Children-Overwhelms/dp/0767908724/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1324741187&sr=1-1
And The Highly Sensitive Person http://www.amazon.com/Highly-Sensitive-Person-Elaine-Ph-D/dp/0553062182/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1324741187&sr=1-3
At four and a half, your daughter might be able to think about the holidays as a time for doing fun activities with people she loves and thoughtfully choosing gifts for others. Maybe thinking hard about what to get someone will help her see how difficult that is? Maybe also donating things to a charity which she has lovingly selected for children she doesn't even know may help.
We were lucky this year that my (5 yo) son's martial arts instructor "adopted" a needy family for everyone in his classes to buy gifts for. The sensei emailed a little blip about each family member and their general interests, and asked parents (who could afford it and chose to participate) to help their kid shop, let them help pick out what to get, let them help wrap it, etc. It was all very thoughtful, and he will deliver the load of gifts Christmas Eve, as he said he does every year for a family in need.
My son got very involved in thinking about this, and had lots of ideas of what to get each person. He was a little disappointed that we didn't have enough money to buy the dad a guitar or get him a job....But that's part of the idea, to understand reality and be helpful how we can. And I explained about some of the needy family members we have, too, who we want to spend money on, and that probably classmates who have more money or fewer needy family members of their own will donate more to the family. My boy also worried that the kids would get duplicate gifts, so we brainstormed what they could do if that happens (share with each other or a friend, or exchange at walmart, etc.) He also wanted some things for himself at walmart, and I mentioned, Wow, aren't we so lucky our daddy has a job? How sad for families who wouldn't be able to buy their kid Any toy, because they need all their money for food. It was a good experience we were glad to have.
Also, maybe throughout the year, she could help pick out things for other people while shopping. Little things, like, "Oh, don't you think Grandma would like this pen?" Or, what kind of apples do you want to pick out for daddy? Sometimes even, when one of my kids is with me and sees something they want, I ask if they think their sibling would like it too. They pick out the same or something else they think the other would like. Each of them gets excited to present it to the other once we get home. Just a cool sucker or stickers or whatever.
Regarding your daughter's own gifts, some ideas that came to mind which you might consider are:
Have her make a list of exactly what she wants, so that when people ask, you and she can tell them. Amazon even has a Wish List you can email to those interested. We haven't done that, but some people do.
Give her her own wrapping paper, and play around with her with wrapping things. Any time, not just holidays. Maybe wrapped gifts are too exciting because they're rare, sort of like this http://sandradodd.com/t/economics She could wrap up her own toys or wrap up your stuff for you or you could wrap her own thing to surprise her. My son recently started drawing pictures, and when he's done, he often likes to fold or crunch up the paper and give it to us as a surprise. Or he rolls it up like a tube and has me tie a bow on it. He sometimes places these where his dad will find it when he gets home. Daddy always loves them.
Wrap things up for her randomly or frequently. Shampoo, gum, a toy, bananas. If she likes it, just sometimes wrap something you're going to give her anyway, for fun. This could help it not be such a big deal. Something with wrapping paper on it may be pretty, but "the perfect gift" is not necessarily what to expect inside.
Help her get things she really wants throughout the year, so she is not so dependent on holidays to satisfy her needs for the stuff she wants. It's hard to be grateful or see the thoughtfulness of a gift if you're thinking, "Having This means I can't have what I Really want."
Help her to know that having something she didn't want isn't a big deal. Does she think she has to keep it? Does she feel obligated to play with it? Does she think her uncle purposely gave her something she wouldn't like? Maybe tell her about White Elephant gift exchanges or even offer to have one with a group she can participate in. My husband and I do this every year with a group of adult friends and it's fun and funny. Or maybe she could donate the toy to a shelter. She could even include that in her thank you..."It wasn't something I needed, but I'm so happy I got to give it to a kid who will enjoy it." (Depending a lot on how you think the giver would feel.)
Spread out the fun to include After Christmas too, so there is not such anticipation and let down at the end of 12/25. Plan to have a few fun things on the calendar to look forward to, like having friends over, or shopping with Christmas money. Our zoo has a light display that's up through new years. There's ice skating rinks, paint your own pottery, nature walks, etc. The UWG conference is mid-January.
Just a brainstorm list. Hope something is useful.
Merry Christmas,
Maryann
ds 5 1/2, dd 2
Oh, and you might get some general ideas from reading The Highly Sensitive Child http://www.amazon.com/Highly-Sensitive-Child-Children-Overwhelms/dp/0767908724/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1324741187&sr=1-1
And The Highly Sensitive Person http://www.amazon.com/Highly-Sensitive-Person-Elaine-Ph-D/dp/0553062182/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1324741187&sr=1-3
maryann
>>>>>>Something else I want to add.
> The bottom line is that we want our daughter to not be overwhelmed. We want our son (age 20 months) to not have to be put in a position of always pushing his wants and desires aside because of his highly emotional sister (this was my position growing up). I know that next year is a long way away. But with my daughter, we need to be prepared. She has already asked me questions about next year.
>>>>>>
I understand that it is hard when we recognize traits in our child which remind us of our sibling, especially a sibling who struggled with those same traits. It's scary! It's scary because we think we can foresee that our child will have the same painful future.
A wise mother on this list, Brie, (Sheeboo2) once told me to keep in mind just how significant a difference it will make to our children that we are unschooling. We are not powerless and being forced to watch our children turn out like their uncles. We do not have to do what our parents did, if we saw that didn't work out so well. Brie said, 'Relax and breathe and know that your son is not your brother. And know that he has a much better chance of learning to handle his sensitivities because his parents are handling them mindfully. That is no small thing.' She is wonderful!
Two things:
1. Seeing that our child is like another family member, which we know they are not imitating, helps us see that it is something genetic at the root. It's not caused by something you did or something your parent's did.
2. Just because it's genetic doesn't mean there is no way to help. And just because you see traits at 4.5, doesn't mean her life will unfold the same way your brother's did at 6, 8, 10. That's because your daughter is herself. And because her experiences will be different. She will not be off to public school to deal on her own with her issues, and she has parents who are asking knowledgeable people for help. You will look for how to help and work with her, not just to make it more convenient for you, but to support her and her own brother in having nice lives.
Okay, three things
3. Maybe talk to your brother about how he would have liked it to be handled differently for him as a child, and what he thought worked.
Maryann
Sandra Dodd
-=-In her mind, my brother should have realized that a toy stethoscope is not something she would want because of a hundred different reasons.-=-
Did the stethoscope work?
Toy or professional grade, could she hear a heartbeat?
Did you try putting it on the wood of a piano or a guitar?
Can there really be a hundred different reasons for her not to want a toy ANYthing?
The other day Holly and I were rearranging some things in her old bedroom, which still has some of her things in it. She has moved on to the room that was her brother's, because it has a bathroom.
Holly is twenty years old now. She picked up a stethoscope someone gave her when she was a kid. it still worked. She asked what a stethoscope could be good for, but it was a passing question, and we kept working and didn't look it up or ask around, but I bet there are lots of things to do with a stethoscope.
-=-I know this because she told me a bunch of those reasons. To her, a gift that she doesn't want means that the gift giver doesn't understand her. This leads to emotional turmoil. Why should she be thankful that someone doesn't understand her? -=-
You described your daughter to a bunch of strangers as "gifted." I'm guessing you've said that to your brother. Maybe he thought a scientific instrument of some sort would be a good gift for a gifted child. That's one of the problems with labelling children and then looking at a group of likely traits, rather than treating each child as a unique individual.
My daughter's stethoscope and your daughter's stethoscope are neither one going to make or break anyone's peace or happiness. It's their own attitude that will make them happy or unhappy. Your job as a mother is to help her see ways to live peacefully with herself and others.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Did the stethoscope work?
Toy or professional grade, could she hear a heartbeat?
Did you try putting it on the wood of a piano or a guitar?
Can there really be a hundred different reasons for her not to want a toy ANYthing?
The other day Holly and I were rearranging some things in her old bedroom, which still has some of her things in it. She has moved on to the room that was her brother's, because it has a bathroom.
Holly is twenty years old now. She picked up a stethoscope someone gave her when she was a kid. it still worked. She asked what a stethoscope could be good for, but it was a passing question, and we kept working and didn't look it up or ask around, but I bet there are lots of things to do with a stethoscope.
-=-I know this because she told me a bunch of those reasons. To her, a gift that she doesn't want means that the gift giver doesn't understand her. This leads to emotional turmoil. Why should she be thankful that someone doesn't understand her? -=-
You described your daughter to a bunch of strangers as "gifted." I'm guessing you've said that to your brother. Maybe he thought a scientific instrument of some sort would be a good gift for a gifted child. That's one of the problems with labelling children and then looking at a group of likely traits, rather than treating each child as a unique individual.
My daughter's stethoscope and your daughter's stethoscope are neither one going to make or break anyone's peace or happiness. It's their own attitude that will make them happy or unhappy. Your job as a mother is to help her see ways to live peacefully with herself and others.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Meredith
"o_jeansullivan" <o_sully@...> wrote:
And like any broad label it runs the risk of being so vague as to be utterly useless. Your child builds rockets? No? But you said gifted... she's a violin prodigy? No? Do you see what I mean? Everyone pulls in so many different assumptions that the word becomes meaningless. Better to use words which say something helpful.
If that's true of your child, that's helpful to know if you want useful information. It's even more helpful, if you want useful feedback, to have examples. Many unschoolers don't label their kids one way or another, but many people also come to unschooling because their kids have higher than average needs and conventional parenting fails to help meet those needs. On top of that, one of the parenting skills which supports unschooling is learning to see your child in a positive light as much as possible and working with them as much as possible - so the writing of many unschoolers can sometimes conceal just how "challenging" our kids might seem to others.
Today I was at a local restaurant, chatting with a mom of three, all under the age of 5, and she said "oh, this one is getting tired we should go soon." To her, I discovered "soon" meant within the hour. By the time either of my kids got fussy or tired it was time for an immediate retreat or risk dealing with a seriously unpleasant meltdown. And yet I forget my kids have always had higher than average needs - especially my second, the first having been far more intense in some ways.
In general, it could be helpful to think of this as an issue of feeling helpless or out of control. Death is the biggest, scariest example of that, but a young child's life is Full of chances to feel helpless. The more you can help her feel powerful and capable, the better she's likely to deal with anxiety in general.
Are these issues you need help with? It's a subject which comes up now and then on the list, so I'm confident there are parents who can share with you how to find more options which support your daughters needs in this area. My younger child finds the sound of rain oppressive, is very particular about food and clothing, and has a very sensitive scalp, so your description sounded pretty "normal" to me ;) See? I forget other people see these things as abnormal.
I've been fortunate in that my partner was also fairly intense as a child, so I've gotten some good advice from his mom and plenty of sympathetic stories about life with a child who wore the same shirt daily for a year, had to have all his food apportioned into five parts, and was so active they built a jungle-gym in their dining room to get him to "come to dinner". They didn't unschool, but it's still reassuring to get that kind of feedback.
If you're not around other kids with similar issues, and don't get that kind of support from your inlaws, it can make you feel very isolated and wondering "what's wrong with my kid?" - and end up labeling her with something in pure self defense. A label can help you feel less alone as well as being a way to deflect all those oh-so-unhelpful comments from parents whose kids will actually do things like sit in a chair for ten minutes.
But you don't need a label to support your child's needs.
Work with her to create rituals and traditions which are peaceful and comfortable. One of the stressful aspects of special days is the short duration - which could well trigger the same kind of anxiety she has around death! So it could be soothing to her to stretch out various aspects of holidays. Get a fake tree so you can leave it up longer - my daughter has a pink tree she keeps up all year and periodically redecorates. Similarly, when my daughter was younger she'd declare birthdays whenever it suited her - for the cats, her toys, other people in the family, even herself. She'd decorate the house, we'd make cake and have a little bitty birthday party. Eventually she figured out the calender and pinned down her own birthday and half-birthday, as well as other family members, and its nice that we're well distributed around the calender for her decorating pleasure ;) but now and then she still goes into "celebrate" mode and declares a birthday or holiday.
Honestly, I'd say the tv is providing some good stimulation for her. Human beings don't like to be bored, so its unlikely her mind is "resting" - she's taking in lots and lots of details. Tv is great for that. She's probably too young for most video games, but I'd start looking for chances for her to try them. Video games are even more stimulating and engaging than tv, And the games could let her think about death in a very "safe" setting, one in which she can feel in control.
If she's expressing her unhappiness to people giving her gifts, she's tactless. But it's normal for 4yos to be tactless. It's a good reason to avoid family gatherings at holidays if you have a particularly tactless child and run interference with adults until your kid is ready to be coached in the art of graciousness.
That's not uncommon for a 4yo, except for the "emotional turmoil" part, but your daughter is more sensitive in that regard. But it Is normal for a 4yo to be amazed that all the people around her don't know what she likes and wants and thinks - a bit of a shock from her perspective. But that's Why it's not a good idea to put her in situations where she needs to be gracious for now. Eventually, she'll get that different people have different perspectives, but she's not ready for that, now. So you shelter her and shelter those around her from her tactlessness.
Of course they are - she's 4! Some 4yos will parrot polite sentiments with very little prompting but by no means all. And given that she has some anxiety, it's all the more important you set her up to succeed by not sticking her in situations where she has to "perform". Be polite For her and To her. Be gentle and kind and thoughtful of Her expectations and disappointments so she's less likely to lash out at others (if she's lashing out), and say her pleases and thank yous for now.
If you're going somewhere that she'll be expected to be polite, coach her gently, give gentle reminders, but don't push - and do reconsider putting her in that position at all for now.
But sometimes "it's too soon to know" Is the truth. Again, to me it seems like what she's really needing is to feel more powerful - she's experiencing a lot of helplessness.
So actively look for ways for her to feel powerful and in control of her life and choices. That's not the same as giving her all the choices in the world - that can set her up to feel out of control, too. Depending on her nature, she may want more independence or to feel more cared for - or a mix of both! But it's hard to say without more information.
---Meredith
>*******************
> Giftedness is a condition like any...
And like any broad label it runs the risk of being so vague as to be utterly useless. Your child builds rockets? No? But you said gifted... she's a violin prodigy? No? Do you see what I mean? Everyone pulls in so many different assumptions that the word becomes meaningless. Better to use words which say something helpful.
>>a child or an adult who over-experiences life, who over-feels, who over-examines*****************
If that's true of your child, that's helpful to know if you want useful information. It's even more helpful, if you want useful feedback, to have examples. Many unschoolers don't label their kids one way or another, but many people also come to unschooling because their kids have higher than average needs and conventional parenting fails to help meet those needs. On top of that, one of the parenting skills which supports unschooling is learning to see your child in a positive light as much as possible and working with them as much as possible - so the writing of many unschoolers can sometimes conceal just how "challenging" our kids might seem to others.
Today I was at a local restaurant, chatting with a mom of three, all under the age of 5, and she said "oh, this one is getting tired we should go soon." To her, I discovered "soon" meant within the hour. By the time either of my kids got fussy or tired it was time for an immediate retreat or risk dealing with a seriously unpleasant meltdown. And yet I forget my kids have always had higher than average needs - especially my second, the first having been far more intense in some ways.
>>She lives life in overdrive.That's probably the most meaningful single statement you made - hang on to that, if you need a short answer to something. It's much more descriptive than "gifted"!
> Most two-year-olds do not obsess over death...But some toddlers have strong anxiety over a variety of issues. If you ask about dealing with anxiety in toddlers, I suspect you'll get more responses, some of which might be helpful to you.
In general, it could be helpful to think of this as an issue of feeling helpless or out of control. Death is the biggest, scariest example of that, but a young child's life is Full of chances to feel helpless. The more you can help her feel powerful and capable, the better she's likely to deal with anxiety in general.
>>My daughter cannot stand water touching her eyes; it is torture. I can only describe it as the same feeling you would have if shampoo got in your eyes. This is sensory overexcitability. She has many. The tastes of certain foods make her go crazy. It feels better to her to have her shoes on the wrong feet.*******************
Are these issues you need help with? It's a subject which comes up now and then on the list, so I'm confident there are parents who can share with you how to find more options which support your daughters needs in this area. My younger child finds the sound of rain oppressive, is very particular about food and clothing, and has a very sensitive scalp, so your description sounded pretty "normal" to me ;) See? I forget other people see these things as abnormal.
I've been fortunate in that my partner was also fairly intense as a child, so I've gotten some good advice from his mom and plenty of sympathetic stories about life with a child who wore the same shirt daily for a year, had to have all his food apportioned into five parts, and was so active they built a jungle-gym in their dining room to get him to "come to dinner". They didn't unschool, but it's still reassuring to get that kind of feedback.
If you're not around other kids with similar issues, and don't get that kind of support from your inlaws, it can make you feel very isolated and wondering "what's wrong with my kid?" - and end up labeling her with something in pure self defense. A label can help you feel less alone as well as being a way to deflect all those oh-so-unhelpful comments from parents whose kids will actually do things like sit in a chair for ten minutes.
But you don't need a label to support your child's needs.
> My child's needs include peacefulness. Holidays are anything but peaceful because she cannot stop her mind from overanalyzing, obsessing, and building up ideal scenarios which lead to utter disappointment.***************
Work with her to create rituals and traditions which are peaceful and comfortable. One of the stressful aspects of special days is the short duration - which could well trigger the same kind of anxiety she has around death! So it could be soothing to her to stretch out various aspects of holidays. Get a fake tree so you can leave it up longer - my daughter has a pink tree she keeps up all year and periodically redecorates. Similarly, when my daughter was younger she'd declare birthdays whenever it suited her - for the cats, her toys, other people in the family, even herself. She'd decorate the house, we'd make cake and have a little bitty birthday party. Eventually she figured out the calender and pinned down her own birthday and half-birthday, as well as other family members, and its nice that we're well distributed around the calender for her decorating pleasure ;) but now and then she still goes into "celebrate" mode and declares a birthday or holiday.
>>> We call television her out because we can turn on a Thomas show and her mind will rest for that period.*****************
Honestly, I'd say the tv is providing some good stimulation for her. Human beings don't like to be bored, so its unlikely her mind is "resting" - she's taking in lots and lots of details. Tv is great for that. She's probably too young for most video games, but I'd start looking for chances for her to try them. Video games are even more stimulating and engaging than tv, And the games could let her think about death in a very "safe" setting, one in which she can feel in control.
>>But we cannot turn on the TV for the duration of December.Why not? We often have the tv running in the background - or the radio or an audio book, or even the menu screen for a video game. My daughter likes to have the extra sounds, and when she was younger especially liked to have the extra illusion of movement in the room from the tv. If she's used to having tv limited, its natural she'll do nothing but sit and watch for awhile until she gets the idea that she can trust it to be readily available. Actually, limiting tv - if you are - is likely playing in to her anxiety. More sense of helplessness.
> Calling my daughter "tactless" is inappropriate if you understand the overthinking she does.*************
If she's expressing her unhappiness to people giving her gifts, she's tactless. But it's normal for 4yos to be tactless. It's a good reason to avoid family gatherings at holidays if you have a particularly tactless child and run interference with adults until your kid is ready to be coached in the art of graciousness.
>>To her, a gift that she doesn't want means that the gift giver doesn't understand her. This leads to emotional turmoil. Why should she be thankful that someone doesn't understand her?***************
That's not uncommon for a 4yo, except for the "emotional turmoil" part, but your daughter is more sensitive in that regard. But it Is normal for a 4yo to be amazed that all the people around her don't know what she likes and wants and thinks - a bit of a shock from her perspective. But that's Why it's not a good idea to put her in situations where she needs to be gracious for now. Eventually, she'll get that different people have different perspectives, but she's not ready for that, now. So you shelter her and shelter those around her from her tactlessness.
> We are doing are best to teach her manners. Her honesty and analyzing are difficult to circumvent.*************
Of course they are - she's 4! Some 4yos will parrot polite sentiments with very little prompting but by no means all. And given that she has some anxiety, it's all the more important you set her up to succeed by not sticking her in situations where she has to "perform". Be polite For her and To her. Be gentle and kind and thoughtful of Her expectations and disappointments so she's less likely to lash out at others (if she's lashing out), and say her pleases and thank yous for now.
If you're going somewhere that she'll be expected to be polite, coach her gently, give gentle reminders, but don't push - and do reconsider putting her in that position at all for now.
>>> "It's too soon to know yet" will never be acceptable for a child like mine. When she asks a question, she needs truth. This is her nature and it cannot be changed.********************
But sometimes "it's too soon to know" Is the truth. Again, to me it seems like what she's really needing is to feel more powerful - she's experiencing a lot of helplessness.
So actively look for ways for her to feel powerful and in control of her life and choices. That's not the same as giving her all the choices in the world - that can set her up to feel out of control, too. Depending on her nature, she may want more independence or to feel more cared for - or a mix of both! But it's hard to say without more information.
---Meredith
Meredith
Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
In between the extremes of "Always say please" and "courtesy is oppression" is knowing how your child handles stress and social situations and setting him or her up to succeed in the world.
---Meredith
>Yes, I don't want to give the idea that unschoolers don't ever say please or thank you - I know some of the "free the child" folks eschew courtesy and it grates on my nerves.
> -=-You can't teach gratitude! -=-
>
> You can coach courtesy, though.
In between the extremes of "Always say please" and "courtesy is oppression" is knowing how your child handles stress and social situations and setting him or her up to succeed in the world.
---Meredith
Lisa
Hi! I have one of those intellectual, intense, sensitive, emotional children. His name is Joe and he's 8. I have totally been where you are.
I remember when he was around 4 or 5 and christmas was done and over but someone gave us a gift late. He had gotten a lot of cool stuff for christmas and was very excited about this last gift.
He ripped it open, and it was a shirt. He burst into tears. He was mad and sad. He cried for a while - 5 to 10 minutes. It was actually a really cool shirt and he really liked it once he got over the upset, but in the moment he was very disappointed and he never hides disappointment. (or any emotion)
Luckily, the gift-givers were not there :) so once it had all blown over we were able to simply say 'thanks for the gift - cool shirt'.
I do have some suggestions for you.
1) don't ever put one gift under the tree until it can be opened.
2) allow them to open any gifts that come in the house early at the exact time the see the gifts
3) do everything in your power to buy cool stuff all year long.
For some reason, parents and everyone in our society saves up all the cool stuff for one day a year - or maybe two. Christmas and birthdays.
I don't do that anymore, for many reasons, but two good ones are
1) Joe gets overwhelmed by too many gifts and they just aren't as cool coming in a big pile as the would be by themselves
and 2) we're homeschoolers. It helps to have cool NEW stuff to do all year long. If Joe only got new stuff on chrismas and his birthday we'd be awfully bored the rest of the time :)
ooh, I just thought of another one. Like I said, Joe never hides his emotions, and his JOY is just as intense as his sadness. Boy do I love to see that JOY. I will do anything to see it.
Including buy him something he really wants at the drop of a hat if I can. I always try to save giving it for when daddy is home from work so he can see the exuberant expression of joy too. It's like fuel for us. :)
And if you don't have a lot of extra money, christmas doesn't have to be so full of gifts and that money can be used throughout they year. My son only asked for 3 things this christmas and he's only getting one of them.
I have a plan to get the other two things and I'll tell him about the plan and he'll be fine with it. It really does get better with age.
My son became very interested in a game last night - sonic adventures - because he had been watching youtube lets plays by a lets player he strongly admires for a few days. He also kind of wanted sonic heroes because the lets player had been talking about that one.
Now I'm a bit broke right now and will be for a few weeks, so I told him I didn't have the money to buy it for him. He has a jar with money in it that is his own to do with whatever he wants. (we take 1% off all money that comes into the house and put it into the jar for him)
He had enough money to buy one of the games and we looked around to find old games he wasn't playing that we could trade in and looked to see if he had any points at gamestop for money off.
Turns out, with the trades he had enough to buy both, and gamestop was having a buy two get one free sale so I came home with THREE sonic games. it was awesome.
conventional wisdom would have said wrap it up and put it under the tree for christmas since it was only two days before christmas.
NO WAY! It is extremely anxiety-producing for Joe to want something and to know that it's right there down the street for us to buy and that we are not for some reason.
I want to soothe his anxiety, not add to it. So I bought it, gave it to him, and he played Sonic for 4 hours before going to bed. and everyone is happy.
One more thing I wanted to mention that I saw between the lines in your post.
I believe you are trying to find a solution to every problem as it crops up that will once and for all stop these horrible oubursts.
I know they are hard. I've been there, felt that. I remember thinking (and maybe saying one or twice :( that I wasn't going to buy new games or do X or not do X anymore if he was going to get so upset.
The thing is, that doesn't help and it's just not possible. You can't predict what will set her off in the future.
By that logic, you'd have to keep her in a bubble until you die. Because even when she's 16 and her boyfriend leaves or 25 and she doesn't get that job she wants, her upset is still going to make you upset.
For me, if I just breathe and rub his back and say sorry - it all blows over so much quicker. and if I let him get all the emotion out it doesn't stick around. He's back to 100% happy when it's over.
Lisa
I remember when he was around 4 or 5 and christmas was done and over but someone gave us a gift late. He had gotten a lot of cool stuff for christmas and was very excited about this last gift.
He ripped it open, and it was a shirt. He burst into tears. He was mad and sad. He cried for a while - 5 to 10 minutes. It was actually a really cool shirt and he really liked it once he got over the upset, but in the moment he was very disappointed and he never hides disappointment. (or any emotion)
Luckily, the gift-givers were not there :) so once it had all blown over we were able to simply say 'thanks for the gift - cool shirt'.
I do have some suggestions for you.
1) don't ever put one gift under the tree until it can be opened.
2) allow them to open any gifts that come in the house early at the exact time the see the gifts
3) do everything in your power to buy cool stuff all year long.
For some reason, parents and everyone in our society saves up all the cool stuff for one day a year - or maybe two. Christmas and birthdays.
I don't do that anymore, for many reasons, but two good ones are
1) Joe gets overwhelmed by too many gifts and they just aren't as cool coming in a big pile as the would be by themselves
and 2) we're homeschoolers. It helps to have cool NEW stuff to do all year long. If Joe only got new stuff on chrismas and his birthday we'd be awfully bored the rest of the time :)
ooh, I just thought of another one. Like I said, Joe never hides his emotions, and his JOY is just as intense as his sadness. Boy do I love to see that JOY. I will do anything to see it.
Including buy him something he really wants at the drop of a hat if I can. I always try to save giving it for when daddy is home from work so he can see the exuberant expression of joy too. It's like fuel for us. :)
And if you don't have a lot of extra money, christmas doesn't have to be so full of gifts and that money can be used throughout they year. My son only asked for 3 things this christmas and he's only getting one of them.
I have a plan to get the other two things and I'll tell him about the plan and he'll be fine with it. It really does get better with age.
My son became very interested in a game last night - sonic adventures - because he had been watching youtube lets plays by a lets player he strongly admires for a few days. He also kind of wanted sonic heroes because the lets player had been talking about that one.
Now I'm a bit broke right now and will be for a few weeks, so I told him I didn't have the money to buy it for him. He has a jar with money in it that is his own to do with whatever he wants. (we take 1% off all money that comes into the house and put it into the jar for him)
He had enough money to buy one of the games and we looked around to find old games he wasn't playing that we could trade in and looked to see if he had any points at gamestop for money off.
Turns out, with the trades he had enough to buy both, and gamestop was having a buy two get one free sale so I came home with THREE sonic games. it was awesome.
conventional wisdom would have said wrap it up and put it under the tree for christmas since it was only two days before christmas.
NO WAY! It is extremely anxiety-producing for Joe to want something and to know that it's right there down the street for us to buy and that we are not for some reason.
I want to soothe his anxiety, not add to it. So I bought it, gave it to him, and he played Sonic for 4 hours before going to bed. and everyone is happy.
One more thing I wanted to mention that I saw between the lines in your post.
I believe you are trying to find a solution to every problem as it crops up that will once and for all stop these horrible oubursts.
I know they are hard. I've been there, felt that. I remember thinking (and maybe saying one or twice :( that I wasn't going to buy new games or do X or not do X anymore if he was going to get so upset.
The thing is, that doesn't help and it's just not possible. You can't predict what will set her off in the future.
By that logic, you'd have to keep her in a bubble until you die. Because even when she's 16 and her boyfriend leaves or 25 and she doesn't get that job she wants, her upset is still going to make you upset.
For me, if I just breathe and rub his back and say sorry - it all blows over so much quicker. and if I let him get all the emotion out it doesn't stick around. He's back to 100% happy when it's over.
Lisa
Jenny Cyphers
***When I read your response, I realized you took great offense with my use of "gifted." I wonder, do you take issue with calling a child autistic if she meets the criteria of autism? Do you take issue with stating that someone has cancer, epilepsy or developmental delays? Giftedness is a condition like any of those in the previous sentence.***
Surely your child has a name other than "gifted". We can use all kinds of words to describe our kids. We can attach words and emotions to our children. The word "gifted" conjures up way more negative school jargon than anything else. When my oldest was 4, her best friend, also 4, was labeled gifted. They are both 17 now and all that label did to that girl was put her in difficult school classes. She was no more "gifted" than my own daughter. They played the same games, entered similar imaginary worlds, and saw the world in similar ways. After years with the label, she changed in subtle ways. People expected different things from her, when all along she was simply a kid who knew some things and didn't know some other things, no more or better than any other kid.
***Most two-year-olds do not obsess over death, asking a multitude of questions about why people die, what death is like, why people can't keep living on earth. My daughter did.***
Yet, some do. It's really that simple. Most don't but some do. So? That doesn't necessarily make her "gifted". It might make her more challenging to live with.
***My child's needs include peacefulness. Holidays are anything but peaceful because she cannot stop her mind from overanalyzing, obsessing, and building up ideal scenarios which lead to utter disappointment.***
Holidays CAN be peaceful! Make them peaceful. Do things that create peace. If your child is a person who overanalyzes, she'll do it no matter the circumstances. Go out of your way to do all the shopping before the last week or 2 before Christmas. Then spend the last week or 2 doing fun things like seeing light displays, making cookies, sitting around the fire reading stories, watching lots and lots of TV.
*** After she opened the gift from my brother, after she had tears and questions, she stated that she needed to watch TV. Television helps her cope in this world. But we cannot turn on the TV for the duration of December. We need other tools and ideas. ***
Some kids have complete breakdowns when they aren't able to have chicken nuggets at 2 am. Tears and questions and frustrations are simply a part of life that we can't always avoid. She has a way to calm herself! That's great, she's got a coping tool, an easy one, readily available. It's one you could use in the car or anywhere, thanks to technology! Why are you looking for other tools and ideas when your very own child has already found a great, easy, and available one?! Are you trying to make life easier or harder?
***Calling my daughter "tactless" is inappropriate if you understand the overthinking she does. In her mind, my brother should have realized that a toy stethoscope is not something she would want because of a hundred different reasons. I know this because she told me a bunch of those reasons. To her, a gift that she doesn't want means that the gift giver doesn't understand her. This leads to emotional turmoil. Why should she be thankful that someone doesn't understand her? ***
At that point, I might have said, "oh cool, may we give this to your brother? We can set it in a box for toys for brother." I'd play with it though! I play with things, it's just a part of my nature and stethoscopes are fun and interesting to mess around with. It could go in a box of household toys, for all kids who visit, to play with. It's great to have toys like that around for guests that might not like the way your own children play, or don't like playing with dolls or legos, but are there and want to play.
It seems like your own negative reaction is feeding into it. Your daughter's reaction is hers. Why let it impact your own? You can find the positive in such a toy. Don't allow her to go on and on about why she doesn't like it and how it's wrong. Cut her off before she goes down that road and change the subject, grab another present, leave the room if you must. You aren't doing her any favors by allowing her to hijack the moment, instead of moving on. Sandra's right. It makes her tactless and you are allowing it. Not all 4 yr olds understand how to be tactful, but, letting her continue a negative rant is tactless and you should be finding ways to circumvent that. Perhaps all present unwrapping should be done with the TV on.
***We are doing are best to teach her manners. Her honesty and analyzing are difficult to circumvent.***
Margaux used to say all kinds of embarrassing things at the age of 4. She's 10 now and she's much better at figuring out when to shush it. She will still, when excited, talk waaaaaaay too much and say things she shouldn't, simply because she won't stop talking. Her mind goes on overdrive and the filter button goes off. Sometimes it can be hard to deal with and sometimes it adds to her charm!
***"It's too soon to know yet" will never be acceptable for a child like mine. When she asks a question, she needs truth. This is her nature and it cannot be changed. We recognize who she is and know that we need to parent her in a special way.***
"It's too soon to know yet" IS the truth. She doesn't have to like the answer for it to be true. There will be plenty of times in her life where she doesn't like the answer. Sometimes the truth is big and ugly and terrible. She doesn't get a special pass on knowing the future. It might really bug her that she doesn't know what will happen next. It's a variable that she can't predict or expect. THAT'S LIFE. Much of life is that way. Tomorrow, you could all die in a firey auto accident, or you could find that some long lost relative left you a vacation home on a beautiful sunny island getaway location. What you know for sure, is that you don't know yet because it hasn't happened. For a kid who likes to know everything, that can be pretty dang hard to deal with! Empathize, but don't sugar coat her world to try and placate her. Her own expectations will change with time. Her own sense of time and reality will change. Even she
doesn't know what she'll like and dislike or know in a year from now. Within the course of a year, she could find that a stethoscope is super fun to play with. Then she'll know from experience that she could have been nicer about a gift that was given to her.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Surely your child has a name other than "gifted". We can use all kinds of words to describe our kids. We can attach words and emotions to our children. The word "gifted" conjures up way more negative school jargon than anything else. When my oldest was 4, her best friend, also 4, was labeled gifted. They are both 17 now and all that label did to that girl was put her in difficult school classes. She was no more "gifted" than my own daughter. They played the same games, entered similar imaginary worlds, and saw the world in similar ways. After years with the label, she changed in subtle ways. People expected different things from her, when all along she was simply a kid who knew some things and didn't know some other things, no more or better than any other kid.
***Most two-year-olds do not obsess over death, asking a multitude of questions about why people die, what death is like, why people can't keep living on earth. My daughter did.***
Yet, some do. It's really that simple. Most don't but some do. So? That doesn't necessarily make her "gifted". It might make her more challenging to live with.
***My child's needs include peacefulness. Holidays are anything but peaceful because she cannot stop her mind from overanalyzing, obsessing, and building up ideal scenarios which lead to utter disappointment.***
Holidays CAN be peaceful! Make them peaceful. Do things that create peace. If your child is a person who overanalyzes, she'll do it no matter the circumstances. Go out of your way to do all the shopping before the last week or 2 before Christmas. Then spend the last week or 2 doing fun things like seeing light displays, making cookies, sitting around the fire reading stories, watching lots and lots of TV.
*** After she opened the gift from my brother, after she had tears and questions, she stated that she needed to watch TV. Television helps her cope in this world. But we cannot turn on the TV for the duration of December. We need other tools and ideas. ***
Some kids have complete breakdowns when they aren't able to have chicken nuggets at 2 am. Tears and questions and frustrations are simply a part of life that we can't always avoid. She has a way to calm herself! That's great, she's got a coping tool, an easy one, readily available. It's one you could use in the car or anywhere, thanks to technology! Why are you looking for other tools and ideas when your very own child has already found a great, easy, and available one?! Are you trying to make life easier or harder?
***Calling my daughter "tactless" is inappropriate if you understand the overthinking she does. In her mind, my brother should have realized that a toy stethoscope is not something she would want because of a hundred different reasons. I know this because she told me a bunch of those reasons. To her, a gift that she doesn't want means that the gift giver doesn't understand her. This leads to emotional turmoil. Why should she be thankful that someone doesn't understand her? ***
At that point, I might have said, "oh cool, may we give this to your brother? We can set it in a box for toys for brother." I'd play with it though! I play with things, it's just a part of my nature and stethoscopes are fun and interesting to mess around with. It could go in a box of household toys, for all kids who visit, to play with. It's great to have toys like that around for guests that might not like the way your own children play, or don't like playing with dolls or legos, but are there and want to play.
It seems like your own negative reaction is feeding into it. Your daughter's reaction is hers. Why let it impact your own? You can find the positive in such a toy. Don't allow her to go on and on about why she doesn't like it and how it's wrong. Cut her off before she goes down that road and change the subject, grab another present, leave the room if you must. You aren't doing her any favors by allowing her to hijack the moment, instead of moving on. Sandra's right. It makes her tactless and you are allowing it. Not all 4 yr olds understand how to be tactful, but, letting her continue a negative rant is tactless and you should be finding ways to circumvent that. Perhaps all present unwrapping should be done with the TV on.
***We are doing are best to teach her manners. Her honesty and analyzing are difficult to circumvent.***
Margaux used to say all kinds of embarrassing things at the age of 4. She's 10 now and she's much better at figuring out when to shush it. She will still, when excited, talk waaaaaaay too much and say things she shouldn't, simply because she won't stop talking. Her mind goes on overdrive and the filter button goes off. Sometimes it can be hard to deal with and sometimes it adds to her charm!
***"It's too soon to know yet" will never be acceptable for a child like mine. When she asks a question, she needs truth. This is her nature and it cannot be changed. We recognize who she is and know that we need to parent her in a special way.***
"It's too soon to know yet" IS the truth. She doesn't have to like the answer for it to be true. There will be plenty of times in her life where she doesn't like the answer. Sometimes the truth is big and ugly and terrible. She doesn't get a special pass on knowing the future. It might really bug her that she doesn't know what will happen next. It's a variable that she can't predict or expect. THAT'S LIFE. Much of life is that way. Tomorrow, you could all die in a firey auto accident, or you could find that some long lost relative left you a vacation home on a beautiful sunny island getaway location. What you know for sure, is that you don't know yet because it hasn't happened. For a kid who likes to know everything, that can be pretty dang hard to deal with! Empathize, but don't sugar coat her world to try and placate her. Her own expectations will change with time. Her own sense of time and reality will change. Even she
doesn't know what she'll like and dislike or know in a year from now. Within the course of a year, she could find that a stethoscope is super fun to play with. Then she'll know from experience that she could have been nicer about a gift that was given to her.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lisa
******** ++++++++ In her mind, my brother should have realized that a toy stethoscope is not something she would want because of a hundred different reasons. I know this because she told me a bunch of those reasons. To her, a gift that she doesn't want means that the gift giver doesn't understand her. This leads to emotional turmoil. Why should she be thankful that someone doesn't understand her? +++____======
In a situation like this you could tell her that her life will be much easier and much happier if she can let these kind of thoughts go. She may be right that the gift giver doesn't understand her, but she can't make him understand her and becoming upset only upsets her life.
You're not telling her that she's wrong or disagreeing with her in any way. You're just pointing her towards being happy, or at least towards not letting an upset ruin her day or her hour or her moment.
I'm also a very sensitive person, and my life has been much happier since I've been able to let small hurts and upsets like this go (only in the last few years and I'm 39).
I tell my son this periodically, and the older he gets(he's 8) the more he tries to make this choice.
In a situation like this you could tell her that her life will be much easier and much happier if she can let these kind of thoughts go. She may be right that the gift giver doesn't understand her, but she can't make him understand her and becoming upset only upsets her life.
You're not telling her that she's wrong or disagreeing with her in any way. You're just pointing her towards being happy, or at least towards not letting an upset ruin her day or her hour or her moment.
I'm also a very sensitive person, and my life has been much happier since I've been able to let small hurts and upsets like this go (only in the last few years and I'm 39).
I tell my son this periodically, and the older he gets(he's 8) the more he tries to make this choice.
sheeboo2
I don't have a lot of new things to add to this thread, but with a bit of time on my hands this morning, I wanted to reply if only to say that your daughter sounds very much like my own, and very much like many of the children of parents on this list.
If you are open to reading about other children/parents who've found ways to do things differently, you've come to the right place!
----I could list hundreds of these types of things to describe who my daughter is. -------
And so could many parents on this list, Michael and myself included! But it isn't helpful to package up these lists under a heading marked, "gifted" or "autistic" or any other such condition that encourages us to see the condition clearer than we see the child.
What is helpful is looking at the things that distress our child and taking all we know about him or her and partnering with them to find solutions and ways to minimize the distress. With four year olds, that will usually mean *you* doing most of the adjusting.
Our daughter Noor is 8, but when she was four, a lovely elderly neighbor gave her a pink teddy bear. Our neighbor lived on a very small fixed income, and the gift was thoughtful generous in so many ways. Noor was terrified of bears when she was four, though, and she was horrified that this grandmotherly woman she loved could have been so thoughtless. Luckily, she opened the present at home, privately.
It was truly confusing for her to realize that someone she loved didn't know something so important about her, but that experience gave rise to the beginning of a whole new awareness about the world and about her place in it. In many ways, I feel like that experience was the beginning of Noor's understanding of empathy!
She knew too that we often bought food gifts for this woman because she didn't have a lot of extra money, and we talked about how much she cared for Noor to spend what little she had on a present. We went and walked around the local drug store and looked at all the stuffed animals and counted how many were teddy bears and how many other kinds of animals there were (it was around valentine's day)--the majority were teddy bears. It was an interesting observation.
Noor drew the woman a thank you card and had a lot of fun putting together a bag of candy for her. Her upset turned to thankfulness because we helped her (re)frame the experience.
That's what people are suggesting to you: as your daughter's mother, as an adult with years upon years of experience your daughter is lacking, you need to help her frame situations and experiences in a brighter light--don't accept that because you can check off so many boxes on some dude's list of "gifted qualities" that she has to be miserable, angsty, anxious, and self-centered, or maladjusted for the rest of her life.
For some time afterward, when Noor was given gifts, I thanked the person and put the gift in my bag to open later, at home. No one ever asked why, or pushed her to open whatever it was then and there. If they had, I would have explained that gifts were a bit overwhelming and it was easier for Noor to open them privately.
-----She analyzes every part and gift giving and the anticipation of gift giving has proven too much for her, which is why I asked this group of parents who seem to understand that parenting requires flexibility, patience and love to offer suggestions.--------
You've had a host of wonderfully helpful suggestions already, and as the mom of a daughter who also spends a lot of mental energy on analysis of situations, I strongly urge you to consider Maryanne's excellent advice (thanks for the kind words, btw) about de-mystifying gifts and Meredith's suggestion to avoid the situation as much as possible until such time as your daughter is more comfortable with the experience--which likely won't be too far in the future. Neither of these suggestions are difficult and both will likely make a world of difference.
-------Calling my daughter "tactless" is inappropriate if you understand the
overthinking she does.--------
I think someone already said that many four year olds are tactless. They are, even ones who don't qualify as "gifted"! That's why it is so important for you to be her partner and walk her through alternative ways of thinking about experiences, but asking questions like the following *seem* to be saying that you see her turmoil and subsequent upset as unavoidable based on her "condition."(which is where people's responses to your use of "gifted" as a condition are coming from)
------Why should she be thankful that someone doesn't understand her?------
If you focus on helping her see and feel joy rather than embracing a state of existential crisis, you'll be helping her realize that she can be thankful for many things about a gift she didn't want. Sandra, Joyce, Jenny and others have already offered lots of different corners of gratitude you could have explored with her.
If someone who loved you gave you something you didn't want, would you be ungrateful? Spend a bit of time thinking about your answer, because it is where you may find some inspiration for helping your daughter find some flexibility in her own thoughts.
Brie
If you are open to reading about other children/parents who've found ways to do things differently, you've come to the right place!
----I could list hundreds of these types of things to describe who my daughter is. -------
And so could many parents on this list, Michael and myself included! But it isn't helpful to package up these lists under a heading marked, "gifted" or "autistic" or any other such condition that encourages us to see the condition clearer than we see the child.
What is helpful is looking at the things that distress our child and taking all we know about him or her and partnering with them to find solutions and ways to minimize the distress. With four year olds, that will usually mean *you* doing most of the adjusting.
Our daughter Noor is 8, but when she was four, a lovely elderly neighbor gave her a pink teddy bear. Our neighbor lived on a very small fixed income, and the gift was thoughtful generous in so many ways. Noor was terrified of bears when she was four, though, and she was horrified that this grandmotherly woman she loved could have been so thoughtless. Luckily, she opened the present at home, privately.
It was truly confusing for her to realize that someone she loved didn't know something so important about her, but that experience gave rise to the beginning of a whole new awareness about the world and about her place in it. In many ways, I feel like that experience was the beginning of Noor's understanding of empathy!
She knew too that we often bought food gifts for this woman because she didn't have a lot of extra money, and we talked about how much she cared for Noor to spend what little she had on a present. We went and walked around the local drug store and looked at all the stuffed animals and counted how many were teddy bears and how many other kinds of animals there were (it was around valentine's day)--the majority were teddy bears. It was an interesting observation.
Noor drew the woman a thank you card and had a lot of fun putting together a bag of candy for her. Her upset turned to thankfulness because we helped her (re)frame the experience.
That's what people are suggesting to you: as your daughter's mother, as an adult with years upon years of experience your daughter is lacking, you need to help her frame situations and experiences in a brighter light--don't accept that because you can check off so many boxes on some dude's list of "gifted qualities" that she has to be miserable, angsty, anxious, and self-centered, or maladjusted for the rest of her life.
For some time afterward, when Noor was given gifts, I thanked the person and put the gift in my bag to open later, at home. No one ever asked why, or pushed her to open whatever it was then and there. If they had, I would have explained that gifts were a bit overwhelming and it was easier for Noor to open them privately.
-----She analyzes every part and gift giving and the anticipation of gift giving has proven too much for her, which is why I asked this group of parents who seem to understand that parenting requires flexibility, patience and love to offer suggestions.--------
You've had a host of wonderfully helpful suggestions already, and as the mom of a daughter who also spends a lot of mental energy on analysis of situations, I strongly urge you to consider Maryanne's excellent advice (thanks for the kind words, btw) about de-mystifying gifts and Meredith's suggestion to avoid the situation as much as possible until such time as your daughter is more comfortable with the experience--which likely won't be too far in the future. Neither of these suggestions are difficult and both will likely make a world of difference.
-------Calling my daughter "tactless" is inappropriate if you understand the
overthinking she does.--------
I think someone already said that many four year olds are tactless. They are, even ones who don't qualify as "gifted"! That's why it is so important for you to be her partner and walk her through alternative ways of thinking about experiences, but asking questions like the following *seem* to be saying that you see her turmoil and subsequent upset as unavoidable based on her "condition."(which is where people's responses to your use of "gifted" as a condition are coming from)
------Why should she be thankful that someone doesn't understand her?------
If you focus on helping her see and feel joy rather than embracing a state of existential crisis, you'll be helping her realize that she can be thankful for many things about a gift she didn't want. Sandra, Joyce, Jenny and others have already offered lots of different corners of gratitude you could have explored with her.
If someone who loved you gave you something you didn't want, would you be ungrateful? Spend a bit of time thinking about your answer, because it is where you may find some inspiration for helping your daughter find some flexibility in her own thoughts.
Brie
Sandra Dodd
-=-I'm also a very sensitive person, and my life has been much happier since I've been able to let small hurts and upsets like this go (only in the last few years and I'm 39).
-=-I tell my son this periodically, and the older he gets(he's 8) the more he tries to make this choice.-=-
We helped our oldest learn to breath to calm his anger or frustration or sorrow. We started when he was five or six, and by the time he was 12, he was the best in the family at it. And now he has a job that involves paying attention to and trying to alleviate anger, frustration or sorrow in a team of other people, and he's good at it.
If we had told him, when he was four, five, six, that he was RIGHT to be all pissed off, and he was special and that was WHY he was all pissed off, and of COURSE he was pissed off because the rest of the world didn't appreciate or understand him... #1, he would have been unhappier in his life and #2, our family wouldn't have had as much peace, and #3, the world would have been a worse place, and it would have been our fault for not helping him learn to make choices toward the sort of person he would like to be, and that others would like to be around.
Our middle child is even-keeled and peaceable, and has been since he was a baby.
Our youngest builds up to a fury, easily. Sometimes lack of food "fuels" that... hunger short circuits her. She knows it, and then when she's getting angry will absolutely refuse to eat sometimes, in a nearly spiteful way. She can be dangerous.
And then I look at her reactions and justifications, and she's 20 years old. And I remember sometimes expressing those (lame, unreasonable) kinds of thoughts, but I was 25, 27... and I didn't get better until I was 29, 30... But Holly has the tools and the knowledge to be better now. And she usually does choose the better option. Not always, but more than I did at her age.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
-=-I tell my son this periodically, and the older he gets(he's 8) the more he tries to make this choice.-=-
We helped our oldest learn to breath to calm his anger or frustration or sorrow. We started when he was five or six, and by the time he was 12, he was the best in the family at it. And now he has a job that involves paying attention to and trying to alleviate anger, frustration or sorrow in a team of other people, and he's good at it.
If we had told him, when he was four, five, six, that he was RIGHT to be all pissed off, and he was special and that was WHY he was all pissed off, and of COURSE he was pissed off because the rest of the world didn't appreciate or understand him... #1, he would have been unhappier in his life and #2, our family wouldn't have had as much peace, and #3, the world would have been a worse place, and it would have been our fault for not helping him learn to make choices toward the sort of person he would like to be, and that others would like to be around.
Our middle child is even-keeled and peaceable, and has been since he was a baby.
Our youngest builds up to a fury, easily. Sometimes lack of food "fuels" that... hunger short circuits her. She knows it, and then when she's getting angry will absolutely refuse to eat sometimes, in a nearly spiteful way. She can be dangerous.
And then I look at her reactions and justifications, and she's 20 years old. And I remember sometimes expressing those (lame, unreasonable) kinds of thoughts, but I was 25, 27... and I didn't get better until I was 29, 30... But Holly has the tools and the knowledge to be better now. And she usually does choose the better option. Not always, but more than I did at her age.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-don't accept that because you can check off so many boxes on some dude's list of "gifted qualities" that she has to be miserable, angsty, anxious, and self-centered, or maladjusted for the rest of her life.-=-
Brie, it makes my heart feel light to know that if I get sick and tired of answering people's questions (or get old and forget how to type, or when I eventually get dead) that you might still be around shining a clear light on other people's angsty confusion!
I'm grateful to all the moms who read and write here whose own unschooling is going really well, and they don't need the information on this list, for coming here anyway and helping us with this running analysis of what helps and doesn't help when people want to become good unschooling parents.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Brie, it makes my heart feel light to know that if I get sick and tired of answering people's questions (or get old and forget how to type, or when I eventually get dead) that you might still be around shining a clear light on other people's angsty confusion!
I'm grateful to all the moms who read and write here whose own unschooling is going really well, and they don't need the information on this list, for coming here anyway and helping us with this running analysis of what helps and doesn't help when people want to become good unschooling parents.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
I'll preface this by saying I'm new to this list and new to unschooling, so please edit anything that's not appropriate, Sandra.
My daughter Abi is just your daughter's age and very very sensitive to all kinds of things, especially other people's emotions and clothing/shoes. She shares many of the traits you have described your daughter as having.
Although they can make life difficult to navigate sometimes, I treasure them because every trait that could be seen as difficult has a corollary that is or will be wonderful. So her immense empathy and very focussed attention to emotion which makes it hard for her to enjoy lots of tv, movies, other performances also gives her an unusually sophisticated understanding of people.
Through this and other unschooling lists I have learnt so much about meeting her where she is, loving and appreciating who she is right now, trusting that she is doing her best in every situation and that it is my job to help her develop the emotional tools she needs to live in the world.
From Sandra in particular I am learning about balancing supporting and respecting Abi with helping her to be considerate and respectful of others.
So what do we do? I allow her as much power to make choices as I can and show her her needs/wants are very important to me and that she can trust me to take her seriously, even if I can't change or fix whatever is bothering her. What I can always do though is to sincerely empathize with how she feels in every situation. I can share stories of how I felt as a child in similar situations. I can reassure her that it won't hurt forever, that her skin will heal when she cuts it and exactly how this will happen (cells multiplying etc.)
In your situation with the stethoscope I would talk to her about why my brother thought she might like it. We would discuss why someone might get it wrong and how his intentions were good. We would talk about what we could do to remedy the situation for next time (talking about interests, spending time together, getting to know each other).
As for the questions about next year, 'it's too early to know' _is_ the truth. What you mean is it's not an answer your daughter is happy with. Sometimes all you can do in a situation like that is state what is so and then comfort her as best you can through the resulting storm.
Anna
Abigail, nearly five
Evangeline, just turned 2
My daughter Abi is just your daughter's age and very very sensitive to all kinds of things, especially other people's emotions and clothing/shoes. She shares many of the traits you have described your daughter as having.
Although they can make life difficult to navigate sometimes, I treasure them because every trait that could be seen as difficult has a corollary that is or will be wonderful. So her immense empathy and very focussed attention to emotion which makes it hard for her to enjoy lots of tv, movies, other performances also gives her an unusually sophisticated understanding of people.
Through this and other unschooling lists I have learnt so much about meeting her where she is, loving and appreciating who she is right now, trusting that she is doing her best in every situation and that it is my job to help her develop the emotional tools she needs to live in the world.
From Sandra in particular I am learning about balancing supporting and respecting Abi with helping her to be considerate and respectful of others.
So what do we do? I allow her as much power to make choices as I can and show her her needs/wants are very important to me and that she can trust me to take her seriously, even if I can't change or fix whatever is bothering her. What I can always do though is to sincerely empathize with how she feels in every situation. I can share stories of how I felt as a child in similar situations. I can reassure her that it won't hurt forever, that her skin will heal when she cuts it and exactly how this will happen (cells multiplying etc.)
In your situation with the stethoscope I would talk to her about why my brother thought she might like it. We would discuss why someone might get it wrong and how his intentions were good. We would talk about what we could do to remedy the situation for next time (talking about interests, spending time together, getting to know each other).
As for the questions about next year, 'it's too early to know' _is_ the truth. What you mean is it's not an answer your daughter is happy with. Sometimes all you can do in a situation like that is state what is so and then comfort her as best you can through the resulting storm.
Anna
Abigail, nearly five
Evangeline, just turned 2
--- In [email protected], "o_jeansullivan" <o_sully@...> wrote:
>
> Last night, Dec 22nd, my husband and I decided to let the kids have their Christmas gifts. Our eldest, age 4.5, is "gifted" in that she meets all of the overexciteabilities for gifted children including intellectual, emotional, physical, and sensory. She is very intense, highly intelligent, and gets upset if things do not work out as she hoped. My husband and I realized that this year she was on a fast track for a total meltdown with anticipation for her gifts. We were also exhausted from her constant questions and worries. For the last two or three months, we've been preparing her for Christmas when she asked or had concerns. It went well in that DD was happy with our gifts, whereas when she received a box of gifts from her grandparents earlier in the week, she was quite upset that the gifts were not things she liked. We've talked about being thankful for any gifts we receive. But she is 4.5 and is very honest. She didn't think the toy from my brother was thoughtful.
>
> While I was growing up, my older brother had the same anxiety about gifts and holidays. I looked forward to the surprises. I know that on quite a few occasions, my parents let my brother see his gifts ahead of time to calm him down.
>
> Now that I am a mother, I am beginning to detest holidays and gift giving because it causes so much heartache for my daughter. My husband and I are worried about her birthday in February and next Christmas as well. We're wondering what other families do? We don't pretend in the big fat elf. We don't make promises about getting certain gifts. But we've considered not celebrating Christmas, which would be very disappointing because of all of the fun non gift giving tradition that goes along. We've considered maybe going on a vacation. We've considered buying only one gift. We've considered taking our daughter on a stroll on Amazon.com and letting her pick out a certain dollar amount in gifts. We've considered not giving any gifts at all, but to just have fun surprises throughout the year. But every one of these ideas is as arbitrary is waiting until Christmas to open gifts.
>
> The bottom line is that we want our daughter to not be overwhelmed. We want our son (age 20 months) to not have to be put in a position of always pushing his wants and desires aside because of his highly emotional sister (this was my position growing up). I know that next year is a long way away. But with my daughter, we need to be prepared. She has already asked me questions about next year.
>
> I would appreciate some advice and perspective and to find out what other families in this group do for the holidays/birthdays
>
Sandra Dodd
-=- I can share stories of how I felt as a child in similar situations. I can reassure her that it won't hurt forever, that her skin will heal when she cuts it and exactly how this will happen (cells multiplying etc.)-=-
I really like that analogy.
Stories of other, similar situations can be very helpful. It's part of the value of fairy tales.
-=-From Sandra in particular I am learning about balancing supporting and respecting Abi with helping her to be considerate and respectful of others.-=-
To people new to these ideas, this might seem like nitpicking, but it's the midpoint of a false dichotomy:
-=- balancing supporting and respecting Abi with helping her to be considerate and respectful of others.-=-
I can't think of any way to be more respectful and supportive of anyone than to help them be considerate and respectful of others.
http://sandradodd.com/partners/child
If one part of the team isn't succeeding, the team is failing. Being a child's partner does involve easing them into society as smoothly as possible.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I really like that analogy.
Stories of other, similar situations can be very helpful. It's part of the value of fairy tales.
-=-From Sandra in particular I am learning about balancing supporting and respecting Abi with helping her to be considerate and respectful of others.-=-
To people new to these ideas, this might seem like nitpicking, but it's the midpoint of a false dichotomy:
-=- balancing supporting and respecting Abi with helping her to be considerate and respectful of others.-=-
I can't think of any way to be more respectful and supportive of anyone than to help them be considerate and respectful of others.
http://sandradodd.com/partners/child
If one part of the team isn't succeeding, the team is failing. Being a child's partner does involve easing them into society as smoothly as possible.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
Thanks Sandra. Not nit picky at all; my either/or thinking is clearly still there.
Off to read those links again.
Anna
Off to read those links again.
Anna
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
> -=- I can share stories of how I felt as a child in similar situations. I can reassure her that it won't hurt forever, that her skin will heal when she cuts it and exactly how this will happen (cells multiplying etc.)-=-
>
> I really like that analogy.
>
> Stories of other, similar situations can be very helpful. It's part of the value of fairy tales.
>
> -=-From Sandra in particular I am learning about balancing supporting and respecting Abi with helping her to be considerate and respectful of others.-=-
>
> To people new to these ideas, this might seem like nitpicking, but it's the midpoint of a false dichotomy:
>
> -=- balancing supporting and respecting Abi with helping her to be considerate and respectful of others.-=-
>
> I can't think of any way to be more respectful and supportive of anyone than to help them be considerate and respectful of others.
>
> http://sandradodd.com/partners/child
>
> If one part of the team isn't succeeding, the team is failing. Being a child's partner does involve easing them into society as smoothly as possible.
>
> Sandra
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>