freepsgal

Hi everyone,

My name is Beth and I live in GA with my DH and 3 children, ages 13,
9 and 8. We have homeschooled the younger two for 4+ years now. My
oldest attends public school due to a shared custody arrangement.

If I had to choose a label for our family, I'd call us eclectic
relaxed homeschoolers. We've tried some of every methodology,
mostly out of boredom, but also out of my passion for all things
school-like (new books, notebooks, supplies, etc.) I wrote on
another list that unschooling is like our base. We start there and
if we get bored or in a rut, I bring in things (books and textbooks
mostly) to give us something to do. Then something kicks in, like
an addiction, and I find myself wanting to follow a schedule and
check off the list. The funny thing is that we never stick with
anything very long. Most of the time, the kids are happy to try
something new with me and then when the newness wears off, we
realize it's pretty stupid and we stop doing it. I have had some
occasions where I felt the need to push and force and I'm not proud
of those moments.

We moved (local move) last summer and by October we were having lots
of various issues. We decided to put the kids in public school. My
ds9 hated it from the first day and we took him out a couple of
weeks later. My dd8 (seven then) absolutely loved being in class
though and begged us to keep her in. She lasted until February when
we finally made a mutual family decision to withdraw her because of
things we didn't like. Although she thought it was a good idea, she
was sad that she wasn't going to be in a room full of kids every day
anymore. After a few days of being home again, she said she was
happy that she was home but.... and here is my major question for
this particular post... she has become clingy and wanting to spend
all of her time with me in particular. Now, I'm not complaining
because I absolutely adore being with my children. I just wonder if
there is something I'm overlooking that I might should be doing for
her.

She turned 8 in March. She's normally an independent sort, very
assertive and decisive. She has a lovie assortment (3 blankets that
are named and best friends) that she sleeps with. Lately, she
carries them around everywhere, and is always wanting to sit in my
lap, and is verbalizing that she is afraid to be alone. I am
answering every want for her and just need to make sure I'm doing
the right thing. At the zoo yesterday, she was very whiny and
tearful and I ended up carrying her part of the time and she's quite
heavy. I didn't complain because I felt like she needed me.

I do see that she is a social butterfly and thrives on being with
people. We have some homeschool friends that we see every Wednesday
at the park. She has a gymnastics class on Tuesdays that she
absolutely loves. We're starting an arts and crafts club on
Thursdays with a couple of girls to keep us busy while her brother
starts Robotics classes. She seems to need more though. Short of
putting her back into school, is there anything I can do for her?
Can a really social butterfly like her be happy at home? I felt the
rules and expectations at school were very unreasonable as they were
causing her distress. But she just seems so unhappy right now and
my heart is hurting for her.

Suggestions? comments? Thanks!

Beth M.

Sandra Dodd

On Apr 14, 2006, at 5:54 AM, freepsgal wrote:

> my passion for all things
> school-like (new books, notebooks, supplies, etc.)

I've only started getting over that in the past few years. I used to
think AUGUST! YES! knowing there would be school-supply aisles at
every store, and paper would be cheap, and there would be new binders
and new kinds of pens.

My kids never cared. I used to try to get them interested in
things. Kirby had a Dallas Cowboys three-ring binder he used and
reused for gaming stuff and art and cards, and never wanted a newer
one. The first time he took some community college classes, he used
some Ninja Turtle folders I had bought him when he was little.

That's healthier than my paper-hoarding self. <g>

-=-. She lasted until February when
we finally made a mutual family decision to withdraw her because of
things we didn't like. Although she thought it was a good idea, she
was sad that she wasn't going to be in a room full of kids every day
anymore.-=-

Family decisions aren't the same as real decisions. The youngest kid
usually loses. Was there any pressure for her to concede so that she
would still feel a part of the "mutual family"?

-=-she has become clingy and wanting to spend
all of her time with me in particular. Now, I'm not complaining
because I absolutely adore being with my children. I just wonder if
there is something I'm overlooking that I might should be doing for
her.-=-

Well... you scared her somehow, to get her out of school. Think back
to things you told her. What levers did you use to get her to go
along with that mutual family decision?

And you made her small. She was feeling big and out there, and the
"mutual family" pulled her back in.

-=-She seems to need more though. Short of
putting her back into school, is there anything I can do for her?
Can a really social butterfly like her be happy at home?-=-

Bring kids over. Have all-day play sessions and overnighters once or
twice a week. If it gets to be too much, she'll tell you.

-=-I felt the
rules and expectations at school were very unreasonable as they were
causing her distress. But she just seems so unhappy right now and
my heart is hurting for her.-=-

http://sandradodd.com/schoolchoice
Just in case she does go back to school, you can minimize the
distress and your own guilt and the impact. If she has a choice
(which she hasn't had before) her relationship with the school will
be different.

And what you've effectively done is bring one of the worst parts of
school home. She is home compulsorily. She didn't choose to come
home. She broke under pressure, because you didn't think of other
solutions from which she could choose. It was all school or no
school, and she wants to be with you.

Regression is normal even under the best of circumstances. Sometimes
kids realize they're getting bigger and older and they want to jump
back and experience their favorite parts of the stages before. That
doesn't all have to be serious indicators of anything. But you did
take her power and freedom back down to a lower level. She needs to
build back up to it. You can help by giving her more choices about
little things every day. Let her have her way lots, even if her way
is to just be in your lap.

Sandra

karen blovat

... she has become clingy and wanting to spend
>all of her time with me in particular. Now, I'm not complaining
>because I absolutely adore being with my children. I just wonder if
>there is something I'm overlooking that I might should be doing for
>her.
>
>She turned 8 in March.

Hi,

I am new to this list also. My name is Karen and I have two sons, ages 4
and 8. I can relate to this part of your post, because over the last couple
of weeks my 8 year old has also become quite clingy. I was also trying to
figure out what is different in our household lately, and the only thing I
can come up with is that we have recently started unschooling. It's working
out great for us, and my sons and I absolutely love it, but maybe taking
away the structure of homeschooling or public school is leaving them feeling
a little in limbo. I'm sure in time my son will get used to the feeling of
being able to direct his day. Any thoughts from others who have more
experience with switching from a set schedule to unschooling?

I also want to say that reading these posts is really inspiring. I'm so
glad that I found this list.

Karen

freepsgal

> Family decisions aren't the same as real decisions. The youngest
> kid usually loses. Was there any pressure for her to concede so
> that she would still feel a part of the "mutual family"?

Hi Sandra, I'm not sure what you mean here. Her final straw was a
presentation her teacher assigned. Every child was given an
American History symbol and she got Mt. Rushmore. She was supposed
to research it, make a model or poster, write a little report and
then give an oral presentation to her class. She was fine with all
the requirements except the oral presentation. Every time she
thought about it, she'd burst into tears. This went on for a few
weeks until the night before the presentation. We tried everything
we could think of to help her but she didn't know what to ask us for
and nothing we were suggesting was helping. She finally realized
that the only way to not be held accountable to the teacher was to
not be in the class. When I said 'family' decision, I meant my
husband and I talked with her about it so the 3 of us decided to
just pull her out of school.

> What levers did you use to get her to go along with that mutual
> family decision?

Hmm... I told her that the teacher expected her to do certain things
and that I couldn't get her out of them because I wasn't employed
with the school. Yes, I did contact the teacher. And instead of
giving her grace to skip this project, I was assured that making her
do it was beneficial for her career in school. So basically it was
stay in school and play by their rules, or come home and play by her
own rules. That's a tough decision for a little girl!

> And you made her small. She was feeling big and out there, and
> the "mutual family" pulled her back in.

Yes, that makes sense.

> Bring kids over. Have all-day play sessions and overnighters once
> or twice a week. If it gets to be too much, she'll tell you.

I'm trying, but all the homeschoolers we have met so far are
traditional homeschoolers. They can't just drop everything and make
a playdate because they don't have time to do their schoolwork.
Field trips have to be planned 2 and 3 weeks in advance. However,
we did meet an unschooler at gymnastics recently and I'm very
excited. She suggested some unschooling email groups including a
Georgia list which I didn't know existed. I was just approved and I
will make every effort at finding people close by to hang out with.

> http://sandradodd.com/schoolchoice

Okay, I read this but we had already done that. I never forced her
to go and supported what she wanted to do. She set her own alarm
clock each night. Got herself up and dressed. I fixed her whatever
breakfast she asked for, and also a lunch if she chose that over
cafeteria food (depended on what they were serving), walked her to
the bus, etc. She loved everything about going to school except
that she was forced to give that oral presentation and that the
class was depending on her reading high level Accelerated Reader
books so they'd win the pizza party at the end of the school year.
The class went from last place to second place during her 4 months
in school. At first she thought it was cool but she stopped liking
it because the only books left for her to read were books she didn't
want to read and the teacher encouraged her to read them anyway. I
even contacted the teacher and told her I did not want my daughter
pressured to read books she didn't like and the teacher had the
librarian help my daughter find some other books. That lasted a
couple of weeks I guess before they were back to encouraging her to
read books she didn't want to read.

> And what you've effectively done is bring one of the worst parts
> of school home. She is home compulsorily. She didn't choose to
> come home. She broke under pressure, because you didn't think of
> other solutions from which she could choose. It was all school
> or no school, and she wants to be with you.

Had that been the case, I'd totally understand that. But I really
did try everything I could think of. I suppose I'm guilty of not
being creative enough. We did think about letting her stay home on
the day of the presentation but when I told her that I couldn't
prevent the teacher from asking her to give her presentation on the
day she returned to school she didn't want to go back to school.
What else could I have done?

> Let her have her way lots, even if her way is to just be in your
> lap.
>
> Sandra

Okay, I'll keep on doing what I'm doing then. That's good to hear.
I've even looked into private schools but #1) we can't afford them,
and #2) all the local private schools are Christian and even if my
daughter wanted to attend, my DH refuses to pay money to a Christian
school. The closest secular school is for kids with learning
problems and you pretty much have to have a doctor's diagnosis to
get into the school, not to mention the hefty $15K annual tuition
that we can't afford. I feel like our choices are so limited. It's
so stupid and I can't help but feeling helpless.

Beth

Meg Walker

I'm just wondering. . .maybe the presentation is gnawing at her.
Maybe she's annoyed at herself that she didn't push herself to do it,
or maybe angry at the teacher (or the system) that would force her to
have to make such a big decision.

Perhaps she needs to have some closure with this report, since it was
the "last straw" in her decision to leave school. Would she like to
give the report for you at home, or for grandparents? Would she like
to write it all out (or dictate it to you) and hand a written version
to someone to read? Would she do it alone in her room with a video
camera, and then let others watch the video? Or maybe mail the video
to the teacher to say "See, I CAN do it!"

I may be totally wrong here. Just speculating.

- Meg

On Apr 14, 2006, at 9:34 AM, freepsgal wrote:

> then give an oral presentation to her class. She was fine with all
> the requirements except the oral presentation. Every time she
> thought about it, she'd burst into tears.

Sandra Dodd

> It's
> so stupid and I can't help but feeling helpless.


But you're not helpless!
You can do something new and fun today.

Pam Sorooshian has something cool that involves dish soap and milk.
I think it's here:
http://sandradodd.com/pamsorooshian (or linked there).

Does she play Neopets? There are some great games there. There's a
folder discussing Neopets at http://unschooling.info/forum

Is there a store near you that you've never been in? Maybe a
Hallmark shop, or even a trophies-and-uniforms place? Clocks?
Stores can be like museums. Thrift stores!

http://sandradodd.com/museum
http://sandradodd.com/truck
Those might give you ideas.
This too maybe: http://sandradodd.com/gameplay

Maybe your daughter feels like she was so afraid of speaking that her
whole life changed. That must be scary. I've heard that the fear of
public speaking is one of the biggest fears of all. I took a class
in public speaking before the first time I spoke at a conference ten
years ago. I wanted to speak without saying "ummm" and "uh" and I
wanted to speak without freezing up out of fear of it being
recorded. It helped.

Kelly Lovejoy went to Toastmasters to prepare for speaking at a
conference. (The class I took was by a longtime Toastmasters
participant, doing a six-week thing for continuing education.)

I'm not recommending that you take your daughter to Toastmasters, but
you might point out to her that adults who are already brave and can
speak fine to small groups are afraid of "public speaking" and have
classes and clubs about it.

Find things you can do that are sparkly different. You'll get more
confident and she'll have happy things to think about while she
recovers from her recent fears and traumas.

Sandra

lilith_pouia

--- In [email protected], Meg Walker <MegWalker@...> wrote:
>
> I'm just wondering. . .maybe the presentation is gnawing at her.
> Maybe she's annoyed at herself that she didn't push herself to do it,
> or maybe angry at the teacher (or the system) that would force her to
> have to make such a big decision.
>
> Perhaps she needs to have some closure with this report, since it was
> the "last straw" in her decision to leave school. Would she like to
> give the report for you at home, or for grandparents? Would she like
> to write it all out (or dictate it to you) and hand a written version
> to someone to read? Would she do it alone in her room with a video
> camera, and then let others watch the video? Or maybe mail the video
> to the teacher to say "See, I CAN do it!"
>
> I may be totally wrong here. Just speculating.
>
> - Meg
>
> I think this is a great idea to at least ask her about. I wouldn't
even have thought of it. Kudos to you, Meg!

Lilith

freepsgal

> I'm just wondering. . .maybe the presentation is gnawing at her.

Hi Meg,

I thought the same thing and offered the opportunity to her. She
already had her written report that she completed to turn in to her
teacher. She dictated it to her big sister to type out, but then she
let me and her dad read it. She didn't want to even read it aloud to
us. We suggested she give a presentation to her stuffed animals but
she didn't like that idea.

Beth M.

freepsgal

> Find things you can do that are sparkly different. You'll get more
> confident and she'll have happy things to think about while she
> recovers from her recent fears and traumas.
> Sandra

Thanks for the great ideas. She just woke up so we're going to cuddle
and see what the day holds. :)

Beth M.