I guess I can be assured she has a good grip on reality
Guest38: My children know the difference in reality and fantasy. On a game it might be funny, but in reality it
would not be funny. They are constantly telling me "it's pretend, Mom"
SandraDodd: I feed my neopets. Marty shakes his head. They won't die, he says. But I don't feel like "a good mom" if
I don't feed them!
It's all about ME!
Schuyler: Linnaea and Simon can explore actions and reactions (we talked about this in the WoW chat, the socializing
thing) without consequence, beyond the game's response
RVB: Yes, Michelle would remove all the fences and let the t rex rampage through Zoo Tycoon, eating people. At first I
was horrified, but I realized she was figuring out cause and effect.
JoyfulMom: I love Nintedogs - so much easier than actual dog care
hahamommy: Out of Kelly's story came "Dancing Pixels, ma, just dancing pixels" when my angst gets to be too much
Guest38: My son puts people in the animal cages to see what happens
Nicole (Guest50): lol
SandraDodd: Stephen King wrote in "On Writing" that he had a character in a book kill a dog--kick it to death--and he
got letters from horrified readers saying he was horrible.
He said he wrote to them and said it was fiction, and there was no dog.
Guest38: : The other night I was watching one of the lord of the rings movies and my 6 year old came in. I told him it
was kind of scary and all these orcs came on screen. I looked to see if he was scared and he just smiled and said, "it isn't
That being said he quit watching when he saw gollum.
piscesgrrl: My son will remind me that the horror in video games isn't real, but he took my husband to task yesterday for
uttering the saying, "Killing two birds with one stone" - he'd never heard it before, needed lots of clarification, and
afterward said, "Well, it's NOT a pleasant phrase!"
Schuyler: Its like the fairy tale 5 with one blow, or was it 7.
Where the guy kills however many flies with one blow and makes a jacket with it on the back
Advertising how tough he is.
He ends up marrying a princess, I think
Padded his resume
Schuyler: Very good work in advertising
socal77: Drew likes to discuss the realities within the games; from Pokemon "What's a squirtle? It is like a turtle, oh,
what's a turtle" That one cracks him up
Schuyler: It's all how you spin it
Pokemon animals are amazing
I love Pokemon, although I often prefer Team Rocket to Ash Ketchem's gang
Zamozo: When Zach was younger he was passionate about Digimon/Pokemon/Yu-Gi-O -- the shows, the cards, the
movies, the video games -- and my attitude was that they were mindless, commercial junk to separate me from my money
RVB: They're funnier!
SandraDodd: "Comparison/contrast." Important thing for language-arts teachers to make sure all Jr. High kids can do.
Schuyler: That's sad Chris
: All though it did result in Zach's excellent essay...
Nicole (Guest50): heh Courtney used to call squirrels squirtles
Zamozo: When I finally really paid attention to them I saw how rich they were with learning opportunities and
understood why he was so drawn to them
Schuyler: We used to watch Pokemon in Japanese, they'd have an English lesson at the end. I loved those.
piscesgrrl: your son is luckier than most, Zamozo.
Schuyler: Amapanman was my favorite Japanese cartoon.
The superhero has a cookie for a head
Zamozo: I'm the lucky one .
socal77: Drew is still very much involved in Pokemon, at 16
RVB: Michelle, too, at almost 14
piscesgrrl: bc that's what I hear from parents all the time
Schuyler: His dad's a baker so whenever Ampanman is injured he bakes him a new head
I think parents are scared of ideas, and television and video games are rife with them.
If you can control the ideas that come into your house than you can control your child.
Zamozo: Zach, at 17, still plays Pokemon games and has a little 9 year old buddy who adores him and looks up to him
and they have a very, very special relationship based primarily on their shared love of Pokemon
Guest38: Video games are great for stress relief too.
socal77: One of his best friends is 11
piscesgrrl: why do we go from kids who want things to parents who take them away? Why do we switch sides? Finally
socal77: they have a special connection with gaming
Schuyler: The problem is that you can't control another person
And it will turn on you in the end.
RVB: Michelle connects with younger kids through Pokemon (mostly DS and the clay figures she makes), especially at
Zamozo: piscesgrrl -- i needed to find a path to peace with my child
SandraDodd: Piscesgrrl, if you do what was done to you, you justify what was done to you. It seems to cause it to make
piscesgrrl: ah yes, that's probably right
SandraDodd: That's one of the ways cultures are passed on--the criticism from other adults who ALSO want you to do
what was done to all of them when they were little
Schuyler: I have had kids yell at me that school was necessary for them to learn
It broke my heart
Bwalya (Guest34): It's financial as well, isn't it?
piscesgrrl: I'm just so smitten (and relieved) know people who are willing to find a path to peace with their child!
Bwalya (Guest34): It's your turn to have things as an adult
piscesgrrl: things like power
Bwalya (Guest34): You don't want to waste your money on things your kids want.
Guest38: Sandra, how do you help other adults get past that attitude? [Sandra-note to Sandra:****answer this somewhere]
Zamozo: I was big into the attachment parenting/LLL/natural foods/holistic lifestyle -- a lot of controlling and justification
a lot of good came from those associations and interests but the control part was not good
SandraDodd: But wait! I was involved in attachment parenting and LLL and did NOT control.
Schuyler: Kirby and Holly were on the WoW chat the other day. There is no way at 17 and 22 I would have been
involved with what my mom was doing.
I want that. I totally want that relationship with my children. I don't want them to ever not like being with me.
piscesgrrl: me either, Schuyler
Zamozo: I think the people that I was involved in those things with -- encouraged the controlling aspects
Schuyler: I think that is a huge aspect to Sandra's message that appeals so fundamentally
Zamozo: I was very controlled growing up
SandraDodd: Even though I'm careful never to say I was unschooling since birth, because we figured Kirby would go to
school at five, we were letting them watch all the Sesame Street they wanted (or whatever else) and videos and play games
on the computer, and eat...
piscesgrrl: Zamozo - I know what you're saying. That was my concern with Waldorf
SandraDodd: Marty was just looking over my shoulder and talking about this chat!
Guest62: Can anyone comment on the idea of TV being a "Plug in drug" that limits mental development to passively
receiving and non-interactive development?
Schuyler: It's not true.
piscesgrrl: I found, that for me, it started mostly because I found it VERY unpalatable to pull rank on others. Discovered
I really sucked at that while teaching, when I was paid to do it.
Schuyler: David has looked at the research.
He likes looking at the research
And the studies aren't that well set up
I've been collecting those kinds of comments for years.
And there's a page there on the criticisms of TV. When you look at the unschoolers' writings and then the anti-TV people
the contrast is amazing.
One is light and joyful. The other is dark and paranoid and illogical.
Zamozo: for me, I simply saw the falseness in those claims when I really looked closely at what my kids were getting
from the shows they enjoyed
Guest38: : I have asked friends before if their kids have seen this or that movie, and they say, no we are studying that next
year and I'll let them see it then. Now that is limiting mental development.
Bwalya (Guest34): I've never seen my children watching TV passively.
Schuyler: The problem with all those studies is that they aren't done in unschooling households.
RVB: Done with kids who need a break from school, instead.
Zamozo: I hated The Simpsons at first... then I paid attention and realized the connections
Bwalya (Guest34): They're questioning and reacting and acting out all the time.
socal77: Long before we knew what unschooling was, we had been strewing and such, traveling, reading, playing, going
to museums and camping, video games, and board games...
piscesgrrl: My boys announced yesterday that they'll probably have to marry other unschoolers. Sorry, off-topic, but
Schuyler's comment reminded me.
JoyfulMom: I think controlled children are way more likely to do things in an addictive manner
Schuyler: Tell them that you weren't unschooled, it's possible to change
Yay I can talk about Rat Park
I love Rat Park
piscesgrrl: OH, they know, but it was as we were discussing the contrasting parenting styles
JoyfulMom: we had friends of my children whose TV time was controlled come over and sit glued like automotons on the
couch watching the TV. My kids never watch TV that way
Schuyler: Rat Park is a study that was done looking at addiction in rats.
Rats could pull a lever with water or with water laced with morphine
The rats in cramped, boring conditions, like the morphine water more than the plain water
socal77: We are a family of multitaskers, the DVR, games, multiple tabs...
Schuyler: The rats in rat park, an engaging and interesting environment, chose the water over the morphine and water
They got them addicted and retried the test.
Schuyler: The rats in a good environment went through the hoops of getting off the drug.
They didn't need the drug.
Zamozo: Wow! I never knew about Rat Park until today
SandraDodd: Marty's girlfriend is here, too. She's not an unschooler. Holly is hooked up with a not-an-unschooler. It's
awful! They might marry outside their religion!
socal77: interesting study
Schuyler: Happiness is contagious. I said I watched Pollyanna today, didn't I?
JoyfulMom: maybe she'll agree to convert for the sake of family unity LOL
piscesgrrl: LOL, Sandra
most of our closest friends are not unschoolers
Bwalya (Guest34): My children are being brought up by two non-unschoolers
We're only converts
Schuyler: That counts, doesn't it? That's why the First Church of Boston became two churches.
Guest62: Yes I remember Rat Park now a very good example. I think it goes with something Ba Luvmour said in his
book Optimal Parenting. About how when some is exibiting things like tv addiction it can be a sign that they have a need
that is not being met.
reneecabatic: WOW - thanks for the Rat Park info---I cringe when I hear people throw around the word addiction (I
don't know the actual "definition") but I know enjoying video games, for instance, is NOT an addiction!
Schuyler: The First church decided that you needed to be saved to be truly blessed and the second church believed that
children could get to heaven if they were born to the church
Maybe it's the other way around...
Guest62: If you meet the need the behavior will stop.
Schuyler: But video games might be an escape
Might not be, but it might be
Guest62: I can see that in my own life as well so why not the kids
Schuyler: And it may have a really high marginal utility
socal77: I am going to be dreaming about utils after this chat
SandraDodd: I know someone asked me a question, and I didn't answer it. I'll answer it on AlwaysLearning, when I find
RVB: What do you mean by "why not the kids"?
Schuyler: I think she may have meant if her needs are met whatever behavior was associated with them stopped.
So if that is the case for her, why not for her kids
That's a guess, though
RVB: Right. I thought it might be about having tv addiction, but I wasn't sure.
piscesgrrl: One of the greatest transitions for me was moving from seeing things as negative, a threat, unhealthy, to seeing
things as hopeful and fun and interesting.
Schuyler: Hey Diana, Simon and Linnaea really enjoyed playing Halo 3 with Hayden the other day.
Guest62: If I can see instances of "Just sitting and watching TV or surfing the net.' because I am lacking in something _
In my case socialization- Then why can that not also be seen in my kids. Clicking on the TV or a game because they
might need more of something
socal77: I think it was meant as if adults use media as an escape sometimes, why don't children use it for those reasons,
but I may have misinterpreted
JoyfulMom: It's all about trusting your children - seeing them as smart, capable and self-sufficient, instead of struggling
or vulnerable and in need of protection
Schuyler: They might need something else,
they might just like the games
piscesgrrl: I usually just sit and watch tv because I want to just sit and watch tv.
Schuyler: Simon really likes watching things on youtube
He loves to find other people playing games
If your life isn't engaging enough, work to get more going on.
Find people who want to come over and have game days
We've done that recently, with lots of food and fun and games going and they've been well received
JoyfulMom: I was a little concerned about some of the stuff they were watching on Youtube, until one day Yonah said -
that show had bad words, but I liked it because it was funny - and I thought "that's how I feel about funny shows that use
socal77: Drew has been watching the new season of Naruto on youtube in Japanese. He also uses it a lot to look up
things for Runescape and such
Schuyler: You can watch all of Pollyanna on youtube, I have my own copy, but I was happy to find it there.
Guest38: : my kids love youtube. they want to make a movie like the ones on their with Lego characters.
we havnt figured it all out yet.
Schuyler: Have you seen the Eddie Izzard lego character stuff, I love that.
It's stop motion.
You can do that with pictures and windows movie maker.
I bet there are how-tos on-line
Guest62: We have free rein on tv here but I have noticed it becomes ??? Habit forming?? for lack of a better term. Not
something they are choosing to do because it is the best or most personally favoured option. but because that is what is
easy. Not always....
katherand: Ooooo I'll be looking up eddie izzard lego on youtube [One is in the column to the right, and if you click that you'll get to others at YouTube. —Sandra]
RVB: If you were not unschooled, you might see "just sitting and watching TV" as evidence of something that needs a
remedy. Unschooled kids see watching TV as something cool to do. Parents need to see that, too. Unless a kid is asking
Schuyler: Make more things easy
Like snacks, if you have easy access to lots of things more things are chosen
RVB: Yes, all sorts of choices.
Schuyler: If all you've got easy access to is candy bars and chips than candy bars and chips will get chosen more
socal77: suggest other options, or do something fun right there; they can join you or not
Schuyler: When they are watching tv get out legos and build
Linnaea and I made marble runs using geomags and kapla blocks and the metal body of our electric heater today
JoyfulMom: I agree about making choices easy. The last few times I bought groceries I didn't take the kids with me for
time's sake. Then I took them with me and they chose way more fruits and vegetables than I would have on my own
socal77: not to pull them away from the tv, just to give them choices
Guest62: ...but sometimes. We live in a cold Canadian city and go through periods of hibernation...
Schuyler: And we watched Oliver at the same time. We'd started singing Food Glorious Food and I put the movie in.
socal77: Kapla blocks are awesome
JoyfulMom: Which cold Canadian city? We are in Toronto
Schuyler: Look for things to spark their interests
SandraDodd: Guest62 sandradodd.com/strewing
Guest38: : today is rainy, we all have colds and we are just enjoying obsessing on Scooby Doo. In the past day we have
watched 6 scooby doo episodes on netflix.
Schuyler: Yes, strewing
SandraDodd: but don't do it just to get them away from the TV
Guest38: : the kids were so excited we got it hooked up to the t.v.
SandraDodd: Better to go into the tv, and connect to other things from there,
Guest62: Edmonton it has been a cold winter this year.
SandraDodd: IMDB is our great friend, finding connections to actors or writers or stories they like
Guest62: Ooo my house is well strewn
SandraDodd: "IMDB it," people will say
Schuyler: My cousin and I used to act out the whole opening scene to scooby doo
RVB: Ack! Go to West Edmonton Mall for fun??
Schuyler: My grandparents had a good recliner for the disappearing into the chair bit
SandraDodd: My kids and I could do the Sesame Street Opera scene, which was Big Bird and others singing the lines of
a conversation they had already had without singing.
socal77: we make all sorts of glorious connections from tv and movies, and trivia, and discovery channel, and games....
SandraDodd: Geography, music, humor, history
Guest62: I avoid the WEMall too costly and commercial.
socal77: we also use IMDB as a verb
RVB: Oh, boy. What's wrong with commercial?
Schuyler: In winter commercial and warm is better than not commercial and freezing
SandraDodd: Home is good.
I love home!
Schuyler: Home is good.
RVB: Me, too!
Schuyler: I take great pleasure in how much Simon and Linnaea love home
socal77: Drew sings all of the theme songs from shows, I have a knack for cheesy jingles
Schuyler: Have you watched the Live Action Scooby Doo stuff?
JoyfulMom: Yes - we love home - I am amazed at how much we love home
RVB: We love home, even when we're on the road. Home becomes where we all are.
AlexPolyKow: my father was in advertizing and we loved comercials. It was a great subject for debates in our home
JoyfulMom: I've always felt home wherever we are, too
SandraDodd: Holly works in a mall now. It has taken some of the lustre off the idea of going to the mall.
RVB: West Ed Mall has cool stuff in it, like rides and such, though.
socal77: I went to college for marketing, but my love of cheezy jingles goes all the way back to piano lessons as a kid
Zamozo: Zach told me yesterday as I drove him to work, that he likes his job but prefers to be at home with his sister and
Guest62: I let them watch when they want to or not. I have just noticed that there is a certain amount of ??? Using TV/pc
games to fill a void every so often. It is easily filled once noticed but I didn't notice or know what to look for for a while.
Now i do.
AlexPolyKow: jingles are great !
Schuyler: I like malls
I miss malls
RVB: Yeah, I took advertising and marketing classes - fascinating. I love "Mad Men."
SandraDodd: Don't be afraid of it, Guest62
socal77: I worked at Disneyland in high school, so I understand that sentiment
JoyfulMom: I also love Mad Men
Schuyler: There is one near us, but it isn't quite the same. The food court has nothing
Zamozo: TV /PC games are fine void fillers
JoyfulMom: you kind of get a sense of how it would feel to live in that time
Schuyler: I like How to Get A Head in Advertising.
I don't know Mad Men
SandraDodd: Our lives haven't had voids for years.
Schuyler: Mad Men
SandraDodd: "void" sucks
Zamozo: maybe they're filling a void for TV and PC Games
Schuyler: We get into lulls, usually weather or flu related
katherand: it's like food Guest62.... there is a certain comfy enjoyment in these things, and there's no need to rush to fill
the void with other things if tv/video games are comfy like food can be too.
socal77: it has been raining here for what seems like weeks
Schuyler: Inertia driven a bit
SandraDodd: But Schuyler, you can get to "market days"!! Those are cool. You can get to car-boot sales. Those are like
heaven to me.
RVB: Mad Men is set in the early 60's heyday of the ad agencies. Awesome costuming and set design. Great character
Schuyler: True, haven't been to one of those for a while
In the rain though, a mall is a nice thing
And I love the mall walkers
socal77: thanks for the recommendation, I had not heard of mad men either
Guest62: Sometimes they need me to drive them to a friends or to the mall or to the park or to their Nana's
JoyfulMom: One of the awesome things in Mad Men is to see how social mores have changed - occasionally you are
genuinely shocked to see things like children riding in cars without a seatbelt, or pregnant women drinking and smoking
or guests hitting your children for knocking over a drink
SandraDodd: Schuyler, fifteen minutes left. What had you wanted to say that we've distracted you away from?
RVB: And the open bars in offices!
Schuyler: I hit all the things I had thought about in the run up
I even talked up Pollyanna
socal77: Life on Mars is cool for the same kinds of reasons, not marketing, but changes in time
katherand: like.. for me guest62 I used to play solitaire on my puter so that I could think through a problem while
entertaining my right brain enough to get through the thinking. Visual spatial fun to do while working through hard
spots in my psyche.
it was good for me
SandraDodd: Holly likes the Mary Tyler Moore show, to see changes since the 70's
Zamozo: knitting was calming to me when I was stressed
SandraDodd: I play a jewel-matching, cascading game that's as comforting as a fountain.
socal77: I like those jewel games too
SandraDodd: It cost $20 and it the best game I've ever had. Jewel Match, I think it is.
socal77: there are free versions online
Schuyler: Petting the cats calms me
SandraDodd: Somehow it comforts the "be busy" part of me while my mind can think without the distractions of laundry,
the dog, the mail...
Schuyler: Your be busy part seems so amazing to me.
Much bigger than my be busy part
AlexPolyKow: in your case Schuyler , petting 5 cats!...or is it 6?
SandraDodd: Mine? Or anyone's? "One's"?
Schuyler: 5 cats, Hamster
You are the most prolific writer
You are awesome
RVB: Hear, hear!
SandraDodd: Thanks. (shucks, ma'am...)
AlexPolyKow: I read... not books so much as on my laptop
Schuyler: To channel Alex, who I always think of when I think of awesome
katherand: Ah we do that religiously everyday at pretty much the same time, Schuyler. Go out to pet the cats... then I
check the mail and so on. The cats live outdoors. A planned interlude.
SandraDodd: I read magazines. Smithsonian, People, Entertainment Weekly and National Geographic.
Schuyler: Hamster is gone
AlexPolyKow: hamster is gone??
Schuyler: that's what I meant to write when I left Hamster hanging
He left a while ago
SandraDodd: And from those I follow links and buy books they've reviewed and order things new on DVD...
Schuyler: I stumbled across pictures of him the other day and realized I didn't miss him, until I saw the pictures, of course
AlexPolyKow: Schuyler is awesome...
Schuyler: I love links
katherand: How long do hamsters live? Karl has been wanting to get one.
Schuyler: Hamster was a cat
is a cat if I'm optimistic.
He just disappeared
SandraDodd: Our friends found their dwarf hamster under the fridge after it had been gone three weeks.
Isabell: Our dwarf lived 2 years Katherand...
RVB: Syrian hamsters live up to about 3 years in our experience.
katherand: Cool. 2 years... maybe that's good.
Guest62: May I recommed rockband2. recommendation in passing. It has helped my son find the beat that he couldn't
find for a few years.
SandraDodd: Rock band has been big here.
Schuyler: We are saving and aspiring for Rockband 2
I think it will happen soon
Zamozo: Years ago Dance Dance Revolution helped my son's coordination -- he told me after playing it for a few weeks,
"I know where my feet are now."
socal77: We have really enjoyed the Forgotten Realms games here, Baldur's Gate, Champions of Norath
Guest62: We are looking for dance dance at the used game stores.
socal77: DDR is fun, we go in spurts, play a lot and then not for a long time
Zamozo: we haven't played for years
piscesgrrl: Here's an interesting twist - my son loves DDR at his friends. Got it for him for Xmas and he said, "Well, it's
fun when I go THERE - that doesn't mean I really want it all the time."
Schuyler: DDR is my favorite thing to watch at the Life is Good conference
RVB: Just going to mention that.
Schuyler: Part of the fun may be the environment
piscesgrrl: and the anticipation
hahamommy: it's more fun at a conference than at home, imho
to maybe that's because I don't have to clear the floorspace at another spot ..
SandraDodd: I do appreciate the participation in these chats, and thank you very much, Schuyler, for sharing what you
know in the way you can word things.
AlexPolyKow: Thank you Schuyler
Zamozo: marginal utility?
piscesgrrl: I need to think more on the marginal utility thing to understand it all. Any links?
AlexPolyKow: I always Skype Schuyler when I need someone to talk to!
socal77: Drew has different activities that he connects with his different parkday buddies
Zamozo: me too -- think/read
SandraDodd : sandradodd.com/t/economics.html
piscesgrrl: cool, thx
Schuyler: Linnaea and I dance DDr together sometimes
socal77: Monday is Pokemon day, if we ever get another Monday without rain....
Schuyler: Maybe she'll dance with me tonight
SandraDodd: Economics of Restricting TV Watching of Children by Pam Sorooshian
Schuyler: She gave me permission to put that in the conference book for Life is Good. I really think it is an important
piece of why unschooling works
SandraDodd: I'll stop "recording" at noon, so people and chat freely without it being on the transcript.
Schuyler: 2 minutes to chaos....
SandraDodd: by "noon" I mean whatever hour it's about to be wherever you all are.
Schuyler: And unschooling works the way nothing else I've ever experienced does.
It isn't faith, it's effort.
Schuyler: It isn't tricks, it's presence
It really is amazing.
piscesgrrl: it is
SandraDodd: That's a trick.
The idea that changing the way one sees something will change EVERYTHING.
Schuyler: It's not sleight of hand though
hahamommy: yeah, the trick is to BE there
SandraDodd: Well, it's not "a trick," but it's tricky
Schuyler: It's tricky
hahamommy: though it is a bit like magic....
socal77: it's effort, and presence, and faith...
hahamommy: in the sense of fun and wonder and joy
SandraDodd: And then it can become REALLY easy, but people see us living easy lives and then they don't realize there
was something to DO to get there.
Schuyler: Only after you've done the work, when it didn't feel like work
JennyC: I've seen magic happen with unschooling!
Zamozo: faith as in trust
SandraDodd: But you have to trust something real, not just the idea that someone else has done it.
socal77: yes, that is how I meant it
piscesgrrl: I feel the magic when I'm with my kids
Schuyler: Faith as in trust but not as in supernatural belief
hahamommy: faith as in the ability to tell the naysaying head voices to stfu
SandraDodd: The trust has to end up being in your real experiences
hahamommy: confidence for me is a bit of faith...
so yeah <3
JennyC: I'm just joining, sorry Schuyler, for missing your chat, I really was planning on it joining in
Schuyler: Joyce has said that you have to take a leap of faith to start unschooling, but I think you have to trust the voices
and the evidence
And Jenny could have totally talked up DDR
Zamozo: for me, I had to tell myself I trusted unschooling would work in order to proceed to practice it --
SandraDodd: That's one reason I try to be turstworthy.
Some of the people talking up unschooling are somewhat full of shit.
JennyC: DDR has been amazing
hahamommy: ...there is a point, when your foot has to leave the shore, so to speak, and it's swim or not swim
Schuyler: Yes, it's after noon now, right?
Zamozo: a lot of them are
SandraDodd: And I have no way to shush them, so I try to be absolutely solidly shit-free
Schuyler: But you see a bunch of other people out in the water.
katherand: 3 minutes after Schuyler
socal77: nice metaphor, Diana
SandraDodd: Not that I want people's faith to be in me myself--not that
Schuyler: And they aren't only swimming they're having fun!
katherand: now all h*ll can break loose
SandraDodd: But when I say Holly wasn't reading until 11 and then she read Stephen King, second thing she read, I
don't want people to say "Well, who knows; she's not always straight with us."
So I've kinda laid my life out in public so that people can trust me.
It's an odd thing
Schuyler: They are playing with their kids and there isn't anything taking them down
Zamozo: I'm grateful that you did that Sandra, I've not been able to be as open for fear of other's judgments
katherand: It is believable Sandra.
Except for people who have chosen not to.
hahamommy: with Sandra, it was really Marty for me, who solidified the real lack of bull$hit in Sandra's life
Schuyler: There is definitely a resonance to your voice and to Joyce's and to Pam's that sounds off in me
RVB: I'm grateful, too. Fear of judgment is also a big one for me.
piscesgrrl: It's interesting to be on the other end of things, sharing in workshops, and hearing people's concerns that I
shared not long ago. And they look at me and say, "Well, it worked for YOU" yadda yadda.
JennyC: the judgement of others is an interesting thing! Don't be afraid of it, be confident in your own decisions
hahamommy: seeing *what's possible* in relationships with children is a source of faith
katherand: They don't want it bad enough to believe then they will disbelieve a lot.
SandraDodd: Schuyler you mean sounds off as in "speaks" and not sounds off as in "seems fishy"?
Zamozo: my fear is the judgement of others about our struggles
Schuyler: Yes, speaks loudly, sorry a glass broke behind me, I got distracted with the word resonance
hahamommy: Off to catch the bus ..
JennyC: everyone struggles though, with one thing or another
Schuyler: rings true in me
Guest62: Sandra Why/What prompted Holly to start reading?
piscesgrrl: bye Diana!
katherand: To a great degree it is faith (maybe not religious) to believe it then you'll see it, as Kelly says
RVB: Bye, Diana. See you in May!
JennyC: sharing can help alleviate some of those fears and put them to rest
SandraDodd: She read when she could read. It wasn't "prompting," it just got ripe and flowered.
katherand: Bye Schuyler... Thanks!
Schuyler: Being in a community of people who were walking the walk and talking the talk reallyhelps a lot
SandraDodd: I guess "ripe" and "flower" aren't the same season... bad metaphor, sorry.
Schuyler: Bye Katherand, my pleasure
Ripe and burst?
Pollinated and flowered?
socal77: OT: but Pam is speaking today at DT 2pm
SandraDodd: It flowered. Bloomed.
RVB: I've found that the more I participate on lists, etc., the more the fears go away. I'm almost ready to have a blog!
JennyC: it sounds like spring
katherand: pam is speaking on a chat or in real life?
SandraDodd: It's interesting, when people move from the question-aaking side to the question answering side.
katherand: Bye Robin
SandraDodd: At the park?
JennyC: yes Sandra, that is interesting
Schuyler: I never asked questions
piscesgrrl: Gotta go - things to do. Food to eat! Thanks for the chat everyone!
Zamozo: How so, interesting?
Schuyler: I have always been too afraid to ask questions
socal77: yes, dragontree
Schuyler: I really appreciate the people who ask questions
JennyC: same Schuyler, here, I think I just questioned everything and I still do
SandraDodd: You don't seem shy.
socal77: I never really asked questions either, just read a lot and let it soak in
Schuyler: I wrote a couple of posts looking for guidance and sat with them and I got the answer without the question
being asked. That sounds too mystical
SandraDodd: When I was in school a couple of times a shy kid would look at me and shrug, or shake her head, letting
me know she had no idea what the teacher was talking about, and I'd ask the question for her.
Schuyler: I knew the answer and framing the question helped me to see it
SandraDodd: Once the teacher looked at me really hard and said "You know the answer to that," and then went on.
katherand: Ah ok. Well have fun at Dragon Tree. I think it's great Pam does those in real life chats. Wish I could
"hear" some of it. Oh anybody ever recorded it to a podcast or something. Maybe a lot of trouble, dunno. Gotta go Karl
under the weather today.
Schuyler: You've been an advocate for a long time
SandraDodd: After class I talked to him and said, "Yeah, but so'n'so didn't." So after that if I asked a question he took it
as a clue to clarify.
JennyC: I've written many many posts, then deleted them because I found the answer as I was writing
SandraDodd: And I [already] knew then that I wanted to be a teacher, so I was really paying attention to how they were presenting
information and whether people were getting it.
Schuyler: I think it might have been good of me to post the questions
Maybe I'll try and do that more.
Zamozo: Just yesterday I realized that I haven't heard Zoe lisp in a long time - I don't know when she grew out of that but
I remember asking about speech therapy or the dangers of lisping and learning to read - because she wrote how she
spoke -- silly worries...
Schuyler: In the same way that you, Sandra, asked for your peers, maybe the more questions the more the discussion
RVB: I have a huge drafts folder of questions, some of which were answered and some not. I should go through them.
Zamozo: but maybe somebody else was worrying about the same thing.
Schuyler: Yeah, I have some of those in drafts on one e-mail account or another
SandraDodd: Robin, do! Or send them to me and I can put them up when Always Learning gets slow, using them as
Schuyler: Maybe it would be good to air them out.
RVB: Ok, will do.
SandraDodd: I'm sorry to hear anyone ever withdrew a question, because even if the questioner didn't need to know
anymore, somone reading right then, or the next day, would benefit.
Schuyler: I would love to see unschooling discussion come back a little
Maybe I'll post over there
JennyC: I usually get questions swirling in my head after talking to my mother, and those I already know the answers to,
I just have to ignore the questions!
SandraDodd: And another thing (hard to describe without seeming all schoolish) is that it gives others a chance to answer
questions who are just new to the answering side of it all.,
SandraDodd: Schuyler, either the yahoo OR the google! Stir them up separately.
Schuyler: The yahoo is shut down, I think
SandraDodd: There's very often more clarity in framing the explanation than there is in just reading answers and
JennyC: always learning
Schuyler: I was looking through there the other day and I don't think you can post there
SandraDodd: I opened it back up.
Schuyler: Oh, okay
SandraDodd: It should be working again, I think.
JennyC: you did?
SandraDodd: I'll go and send a test message and you guys respond if it goes through to you, on the yahoo. But if you've
changed e-mail in the past two years, that might be why you wouldn't get it.
JennyC: I had no idea, but then I've been out of the online loop for about a week now
Bwalya (Guest34): Is it an open group?
JennyC: Anyone can join yahoo groups, some, you have to ask
Guest62: I have sent and received through the old yahoo list.
Zamozo: got it sandra
SandraDodd: I thought it was working.
Guest62: I would like it to be more active just because I like it better then the google interface
Schuyler: It's Unschooling_Discussion. groups.google.com/group/UnschoolingDiscussion?hl=en is the google version
Zamozo: I have them sent to two different addresses so it's easy for me to keep them straight
SandraDodd: I don't mind if they're both going. I collect the gems from the discussion, usually (sometimes) so I don't
care where the discussions are as long as they ened up on my site!
RVB: The framing (and re-framing) of questions has often yielded an answer for me. Maybe just as often, though, it's
made me think I'm a complete idiot . I think I should post more of them, and get out of my own head.
Schuyler: Drat, I'll have to rejoin the yahoo one. It's on my old account
SandraDodd: I don't know if you guys know, but I'm kind of becoming an unschooling slumlord. Unschooling.info was
going to be abandoned, and I bought it.
$130 to keep it open, but it's a scary place with dozens of zombies at the door. It gets way more spambot traffic than real
JennyC: what I find interesting, is how someone else will see something that I didn't and write about it
Schuyler: I know, what an amazing thing
I figured you could use a bit of cash when you told me that
JennyC: I like unschooling info, I haven't posted there in a long time
SandraDodd: Robin, seriously--if you're ever embarrassed about a question, let me know and I'll post it anonymously.
That doesn't bother me one bit.
Schuyler: The more groups there are, the more sites, the more the stuff seems to spread thinner and thinner.
Guest62: I often write long post only to realize I knew all along what it was I was looking for. I just need a method of
working it out and the act of typing helped me organize my thoughts outside my emotional reactions.
Schuyler: I can't keep up with all the sites
RVB: In fact, when I posted on AL about conference raffles/auctions helped a lot. I thought I was in a distinct minority in
my thoughts about it. That's good learning for me.
JennyC: me either Schuyler!
adreanaline: (hi all, joining a bit late)
Schuyler: I can, but it seems to pull me in too many places and I get all confused
JennyC: ooo Robin, that's you RVB, HI!
SandraDodd: ~katherand is helping me look at it to see what we can do. Possibly I'll eventually move the forum to my
own site and let the other pages go. Or maybe we'll figure out how to work it and spruce it up and leave it there
Zamozo: The risk of letting it be abandoned is that some unseemly type could open up shop under that shingle and give
unschooling a bad rap?
SandraDodd: I see all the sites as one big thing
SandraDodd: Yes, Chris, and they're linked from all over the place
Schuyler: I hadn't even thought about it from that side
SandraDodd: Thank you for that donation, Schuyler..
Zamozo: I see
Schuyler: My pleasure
adreanaline: I agree with Zamozo -- I lost one of my sites to an unfavorable linky thing
Schuyler: It made me feel like part of the big thing
SandraDodd: I've been thinking of setting up a bakesale page, and selling stuff I have, and cookies, and letting people buy
stuff from there on PayPal.
Schuyler: Like donating to PBS
RVB: I'll buy!
JennyC: paypal would be a nice addition, it's something that I use a lot
SandraDodd: With a price range, like the low end would cover my expenses or not be totally nothingness, and then have a
high end price. Like a book, and sell it for $5 to $10. Let them decide, and if it's at least $5 I'll mail it on out,.
And I could also find some good homes for some of my interesting toys and little sculpture things I've collected and
loved, but that I can't keep forever.
I'm still thinking, but it seems possible.
I have lots and lots of little-kid books.
JennyC: Me too, lots of little kid books
Zamozo: Autographed used books - not autographed by the author but by you!
JennyC: nobody reads them here, but nobody will let me get rid of them
SandraDodd: I had also thought people could donate that way too, by agreeing to mail something they made or baked, if
someone donated to my site.
RVB: Gotta go. Thanks, Schuyler. Looking forward to seeing you and yours in May!!
SandraDodd: It was one of those wild fantasies that settles down into "hey, that's actually a possibility"
JennyC: bye Robin
Schuyler: Bye, I'm getting more and more excited
adreanaline: It's better to have more ideas than not enough
JennyC: me too!
SandraDodd: Not enough has never been my problem.
AlexPolyKow: Well I got to go too!!!!!! Love you Schuyler!
Thank you Sandra you rock!
Schuyler Waynforth on video games, television, computers, and maybe food.
More about Schuyler: /schuylerwaynforth