For the historical record, a chat from 12/19/96, on AOL on Cheating

(I don't think it started out to be about cheating, but that's how it's marked on an old disc I found in 2010)

12/19/96 9:28:47 PM Opening “judyfaron chat 12/18” for recording.

JudyFAron  : gee TD - my kids don't pretend either - on that we 
             seem to agree
TDrnkngGrd : And they can love learning.
Felicitas  : Judy, does your hs program require testing? 
JudyFAron  : no no no
TDrnkngGrd : But you just accused ours of pretending.
JudyFAron  : no testing
Clayvessel : This all started with my stating that my daughter 
             could cheat
Clayvessel : by looking up answers if she learned something from 
Clayvessel : subject in question was history.
JudyFAron  : I didn't accuse yours - I was giving an example
MRothko    : MY kids only pretend when they are playing together
KaeKaeB    : Sara uses American School Correspondence...she reads 
             a section and then does a self test
JudyFAron  : why do you think I am picking on you specifically?
Clayvessel : I want my daughter to understand that one persons
Clayvessel : interpretation of hsitoric events is not the only 
TDrnkngGrd : Please do not use homeschoolers (in toto) as an 
Estrgraham : Good night ladies.  Merry Christmas and God bless you 
HendyMom   : Sometimes I pretend I know everything.  My kids 
             believe it.
BARB FRED  : If no testing,  then why all the fuss about 
Felicitas  : Oh, gee, Clay -- no one can remember everything
TDrnkngGrd : Bye, Estr.
Clayvessel : Sure she can read what the textbook manufactureers 
             think the answer should be.
Clayvessel : But does she agree with that?
TDrnkngGrd : Feliz Navidad.
Felicitas  : I look up history all the time!
KaeKaeB    : she uses the book to do the self-test.....That way 
             she does some "close reading" . I don't t
HendyMom   : Good Nite Estragrahm
JudyFAron  : I was giving an example because I was asked to by 
             sandra way back in the chat
Estrgraham : Nite Hendy
JudyFAron  : then you all jumped on me 
KaeKaeB    : think that is cheating...they don't either, btw.
SandraDodd : When and why kids would have to fake knowing 
             something, I can't imagine.  My kids are glad to 
Felicitas  : But do you think looking up history is cheating?
HendyMom   : Judy are you happy with homeschooling and are your 
             children happy?
KaeKaeB    : But by this definition she would be faking knowing 
             the info???
SandraDodd : from any available source, and they're not afraid to 
             admit when they don't know something.
JudyFAron  : we are extremely happy with homeschooling all of us
Clayvessel : I want her to learn to write her own answers.  She's
Clayvessel : marvelously honest.  So letting her read the answer 
Clayvessel : actually force her to think and compare and go beyond 
Clayvessel : obvious when writing her own answers.
RELTOND    : Barb and KK:  would you mind e-mail  occasionally??  
             It sounds like we have similar sits.
BARB FRED  : KK, my son uses American School...All of the test art 
             open book.  I am sure Judy would
BARB FRED  : call that "cheating"
Felicitas  : That sounds good to me, Clay
JudyFAron  : oh Barb - get real - that is not cheating either
KaeKaeB    : Hendy, one day you will be wrong  
JudyFAron  : forget it - you all just want to argue
SandraDodd : "Get real" doesn't come from forgetting to use the 
             shift key, does it?
Felicitas  : Open book tests aren't cheating?
JudyFAron  : goodnight - you are all hateful tonight 
Clayvessel : 'Sorry Judy, didn't mean to be.
HendyMom   : So I am not to proud to admit being wrong/
BARB FRED  : REALLY, Judy?????
Felicitas  : Judy, I'm not hateful, just enthusiastic.
KaeKaeB    : SURE REL, I love to talk homeschooling, matter of 
             fact I'm becoming addicted. 
TDrnkngGrd : I know that I am not a hateful person.
Anacabana  : hello
TDrnkngGrd : YYE1111
TDrnkngGrd : yes!!
Felicitas  : TD, ?
TDrnkngGrd : Oh, nothing. Just happy.
BARB FRED  : I love a good debate...stirs the creative juices to 
             try to express myself with out CUSSING..
Felicitas  : Oh, you're just hateful.
HendyMom   : Does anyone celebrate Kwanzaa?
TDrnkngGrd : Me do.
KaeKaeB    : BARB,. you......
Felicitas  : I do too, Barb
TBarnell5  : Bye all.  Going to eat a midnight snack. Enjoyed the 
TDrnkngGrd : Iwas IMg. No guides there.
HendyMom   : I would like some suggestions on Kwanzaa
TDrnkngGrd : Bye.
KaeKaeB    : No, but after tonight I think I should....doesn't 
             that include honesty??
TDrnkngGrd : Like what.
SandraDodd : Should what?
TDrnkngGrd : Kwanzaa.
SandraDodd : After tonight you should cuss? have a midnight snack? 
             celebrate Kwanzaa?
KaeKaeB    : Celebrate Kwanzaa.....
BARB FRED  : Fel, KK, REL,   think of anything interesting we can 
             debate and be "hateful" about?? :-)
RELTOND    : What's Kwanzaa??
KaeKaeB    : Welll, snacking sounds good too.
SandraDodd : It would be cheating for me to celebrate kwanzaa.
TDrnkngGrd : Let's see, one kinara. 3 red canldles, 3 green, 1 
HendyMom   : Do you celebrate Kwanzaa TDrnkgnGrd?
KaeKaeB    : BARB you are on a roll.
TDrnkngGrd : Yes I do.
Felicitas  : I dunno -- we could slam Kwanzaaa
SandraDodd : if you guys e-mail RaisenNSun and ask her for kwanzaa 
             info she can send it to you for sure.
Felicitas  : :::::ducking::
TDrnkngGrd : We have a rather huge pot luck get together at my 
SandraDodd : She did a workshop and it's all in one place.  You'll 
             know tons of stuff.
KaeKaeB    : Hey, her chat should be uploaded into the library by 
HendyMom   : I have an adopted black son and I would like to intro 
             him to Kwanzaa and the family too.
TDrnkngGrd : I've been cleaning it, for the party, over the past 3 
BARB FRED  : ooohhh Fel,  You are treading in THIN ICE.....
KaeKaeB    : Hendy, do youknow how to check the library for files 
             to download?
TDrnkngGrd : I am an adoptive mom also. Black child too.
Felicitas  : LOL
HendyMom   : Do you have any simple ideas or books you like. Yes 
             Kae Kae I have been to the Kwanzaa 
SandraDodd : But you CHEATED, TDrnkngGrd.
SandraDodd : 
SAAldrich  : My friends who send their kids to school tell me that 
             kids need to get on a schedule early
HendyMom   : page but I like personal help
KaeKaeB    : Yea, you started out African American!
Felicitas  : Hey, I'm respectful of other peoples holidays... I 
             have enough weird ones of my own...
SAAldrich  : to start learning the "real" world and about getting 
             up for work, etc.. I say they don't nee
TDrnkngGrd : Weel Sandra. Everytime a white person tells me that 
             they have adopted a Black child I say, so have I.
KaeKaeB    : No, Hendy not a web site, but a chat was held on 
             Kwanzaa and the log should be in the librar
BARB FRED  : SAA, ouch....sadists!  If we are out of bed before 9, 
             the house is on FIRE!
SandraDodd : I would like to apologize to anyoe who was alarmed by 
             my tone this evening.
TDrnkngGrd : You've got to admit, it's a good laugh.
SAAldrich  : 12 years of school to get prepared to get up and go 
             to work.  Anyone getting the same kind
KaeKaeB    : it would be filled with practical things to do.
SAAldrich  : of stuff from their friends.
SandraDodd : Good answer, Donna (clapping as though we were on 
             Family Feud)
BARB FRED  : I hear the same stuff SA, I ignore it!!
TDrnkngGrd : You should see the looks on ther faces. 
SAAldrich  : BARB, exactly!!!  We have slow mornings, sleep late, 
             and we love it.  I don't want to get up
SandraDodd : I could have been more supportive of the the cheating 
             idea, but it wouldn't have been honest.
RELTOND    : Folks, I honestly have never heard of Kawanzaa?
SAAldrich  : early and take them all to school when it is 20 
             degrees outside!
KaeKaeB    : Donna, that's almost cruel.
BARB FRED  : They are just JEALOUS, SA
TDrnkngGrd : Hendy, I'm African American, that's why we're joking 
DonnaStaub : me cruel????
TDrnkngGrd : Cruel? Moi?
BARB FRED  : Sandra, you crack me up....
SAAldrich  : BARB, I think you are right because they are already 
             getting burned out hauling their kids
DonnaStaub : oh  not me   LOL
SandraDodd : RELTOND, e-mail RaisenNSun.  Honest.  You'll know 
             tons tomorrow.
KaeKaeB    : No Donna..TDrnk is a Donna...sorry
SAAldrich  : all around town to different school and activities 
             starting when their kids are preschool a
SAAldrich  : age
TDrnkngGrd : Rel it's an African American holiday that beginds the 
             day after Christmas.
HendyMom   : Gee TDrnkngGrd when someone reaches out to you for 
             help you turn on them
SandraDodd : CONFUSING, and when I see SA I think it's me because 
             for most of my life my name was
SandraDodd : Sandra Adams, and it still starts SA.
RELTOND    : TGD:  Thank you.  I understand.
Felicitas  : TD, that's St Stephen's day... :-)
TDrnkngGrd : We Celebrate the 7 priciples of the Black family and 
              how they've helped us survive our American exper
HendyMom   : I hope my son does not turn out to sound bitter like 
SAAldrich  : My 4-yr-old son helped me make out Christmas cards 
             this year.  He enjoys doing adult
SAAldrich  : things whatever my husband and I are doing. 
BARB FRED  : TD, I never knew anything about Kwan
TDrnkngGrd : It ends on New Years Day. That's when the 
             Emmancipation Proclamation went into effect.
TDrnkngGrd : I sound bitter?
TDrnkngGrd : Really?
HendyMom   : yes.
TDrnkngGrd : How?
HendyMom   : scroll up
DonnaStaub : GleeBigg  you still here???
TDrnkngGrd : I really do not understand?
BARB FRED  : Handy....down girl....we are all friends here , 
KaeKaeB    : Hendy, I'm emailing you a file, listen for the pop
SandraDodd : HendyMom, we're just joking around.   I'm guessing 
             you misinterpreted something Donna said
Gleebigg   : yes
BARB FRED  : Hendy, not handy-sorry
SandraDodd : TDrnkngGrd is never mean or bitter
DonnaStaub : hello  Glenda,  how are you this evening/?
DonnaStaub : did you all get some of the flurries??
Gleebigg   : just fine, COLD
DonnaStaub : they were beautiful
TDrnkngGrd : The African American experience has been a difficult 
HendyMom   : ok so sorry. but adopting a black child is nothing to 
             joke about. Do you make jokes about ot
HendyMom   : other children.
DonnaStaub : yes  me too   cold
TDrnkngGrd : I am an adoptive mother.
Gleebigg   : we were in Fay earlier and saw some flakes, the kids 
             were excited
TDrnkngGrd : I have adopted a black child.
TDrnkngGrd : I'm telling the truth.
BARB FRED  : Was she joking?
DonnaStaub : LOTS of FLAKES in Fay.  *lol*
BARB FRED  : What is the deal Hendy?
Felicitas  : Hendy, TD doesn't bite.  She's even nice to ME. :-)
HendyMom   : I worry very much about making his culture important 
             to him it is very difficult.
SandraDodd : I've seen this child in person.   I can vouch for 
             this story.
Gleebigg   : I'm hoping is doesn't snow, we leave Monday
RELTOND    : Barb and KK:  What time do you start your school 
DonnaStaub : where ya heading/?
Gleebigg   : WI of all places!!!!
TDrnkngGrd : I even nursed my adopted child for three years.
Clayvessel : Do tell?
SandraDodd : Heritage, not culture (just a little anthropological 
DonnaStaub : I hope it snows then     but  after you get out of 
DonnaStaub : Family there huh?
BARB FRED  : TD, could you email me something explaining what 
             Kwanza is and why it is celebrated, etc?
HendyMom   : I call it culture Sandra
Gleebigg   : they're suppose to get snow on Mon
Felicitas  : That's the real reason she's called The Drinking 
             Gourd, you know.
BARB FRED  : REL...when we get up :-)
KaeKaeB    : REL, we don't "do school", we jsut use materials to 
             learn stuff.
DonnaStaub : LOL  you can't hide from  Frosty!!!!
Clayvessel : LOL
Gleebigg   : LOL
SAAldrich  : TD, that is so great that you nursed your adopted 
             child for 3 years, what a lucky child!
TDrnkngGrd : The Drinking Gourd is the Big Dipper. It leads to the 
             North Star.
Clayvessel : So can we call her jugs for short?
KaeKaeB    : LOL...Clay !
TDrnkngGrd : I wish they looked like jugs.
Felicitas  : Oh, I know that, TD  LOL!
KaeKaeB    : TD, did you use one of those relactate bags?? Did 
             that work?
HendyMom   : I wish I knew more black people.  When I reach out to 
             them they turn away which makes me
HendyMom   : worry about my son.
TDrnkngGrd : I have to make a point here.
KaeKaeB    : Hendy the Kwanzaa file should be in your mail box.
Felicitas  : TD, my 6 y.o. knows the Big Dipper by TDG - credit 
             Reading Rainbow
TDrnkngGrd : Most white families assume that Black families don't 
             adopt Black children.
KaeKaeB    : Barb do you want it too?
HendyMom   : thank you KaeKae
BARB FRED  : YES KK, please!
TDrnkngGrd : They are surprised to find out that I have adopted a 
             Black child.
AKMomOf3   : Good evening.  Is this a homeschooling chat? May I 
             join you?
DonnaStaub : what is Kwanzaa
RELTOND    : Barb:  Have you graduated anyone yet??
BARB FRED  : Really, I never thought that TD
TDrnkngGrd : I tell them I have to help them relax (plus it's 
DonnaStaub : HI  AKMom
SandraDodd : KaeKaeB, please send that file to DonnaStaub too.
BARB FRED  : No, graduates yet
AKMomOf3   : Hi Donna!
DonnaStaub : no no
DonnaStaub : just wondering
Clayvessel : Hendy, I have a friend who has adopted several 
Clayvessel : One black, one latino, several special needs.
DonnaStaub : so do you HS  AK
RELTOND    : Barb:  We're thinking about college.  That's why the 
             structured program.
AKMomOf3   : Yes.. 2 of the 3... 3rd is a baby..
KaeKaeB    : That's what the media here in Huntsville would have 
             you believe.  That no AA families ever a
KaeKaeB    : adopt.
AKMomOf3   : Hi Barb.
DonnaStaub : cool
Clayvessel : She treats them all the same.  Figures they have a 
Clayvessel : culture.  They all learn about different heritages.
DonnaStaub : what curri?
AKMomOf3   : me?
DonnaStaub : y
BARB FRED  : REL, that is why we use American School.  My son also 
             does a lot of other great stuff that
AKMomOf3   : Well, basically, we are unschoolers, but since dh is 
             a "structure guy"...
BARB FRED  : he enjoys a lot more than American School 
DonnaStaub : yeah we are moving towards that ourselves
TDrnkngGrd : Rel, the Colfax's were unstructured until their 
             children were about 16.
AKMomOf3   : we do use some district correspondence stuff.. just 
             to keep him calm :-)
RELTOND    : Barb:  Is Am Sc a Christian curric??
KaeKaeB    : Donna there should be a Kwanzaa file in your mailbox.
TDrnkngGrd : they have a doctor, two lawyers and a Chef.
BARB FRED  : My dh tends to be a structure guy too
KaeKaeB    : DonnaSTaub that is.
HendyMom   : yes Clay but in our family we are Swedish. And 
             everyone is dumb about Black Heritage.
DonnaStaub : dang   you didn't need to do taht
TDrnkngGrd : Thanks KK. I'll use it for our party.
DonnaStaub : that
DonnaStaub : AK  where from?
TDrnkngGrd : Harvard and Yale grads.
KaeKaeB    : I think most men are stucture kinds
Gleebigg   : couldn't agree more KaeKae
SandraDodd : My husband is so nice about homeschooling.  He 
             resists things at first and then I'll overhear him
DonnaStaub : no stuctured guy here LOL none at all
TDrnkngGrd : Don't worry Hendy. I don't know much about the 
             Seedish either.
Felicitas  : TDG - doctor, lawyer, Indian CHEF?
BARB FRED  : no REl, secular...been around for 100 years.  Fully 
             accredited and has a college prep track
RELTOND    : TGD:  Who's Colfax?
KaeKaeB    : they only think of one thing at a time. 
AKMomOf3   : + dh wants the kids to have a "real" diploma.. I 
             think next year I'm dropping the district t
AKMomOf3   : though.
AKMomOf3   : I'm in Alaska
SandraDodd : defending something radically to his co-workers or 
Clayvessel : Sounds like a research project.  Course, that's what 
Clayvessel : were asking us, wasn't it.  :-)
DonnaStaub : bbbbrrrrr
SandraDodd : Right at the Thanksgiving table a couple of years ago 
             he was saying, "We just don't send our kids to
SandraDodd : the welfare school, that's all."
Gleebigg   : dh makes suggestions, but then he goes out on the 
             road and we do our own thing
SandraDodd : Eek!
SandraDodd : I would've waited until after dessert, at least.
TDrnkngGrd : Grant Colfax was the first homeschooler to enter 
             Harvard in 110 years.
AKMomOf3   : Not too cold tonight... about 20+, snowing.. 
DonnaStaub : LOL Glenda
Estrgraham : I have always wanted to go to Alaska.
Felicitas  : Guv'ment school!
DonnaStaub : aahhh  I want some AK
Estrgraham : AK Do you have to get by plane like they show on TV?
DonnaStaub : me too EST
TDrnkngGrd : THe cockateil has been on my shouldre for about 2 
Gleebigg   : my 20 year old is in Alaska for Christmas with 
Felicitas  : Eeeww
RELTOND    : TGD:  is there a book about them?
TDrnkngGrd : Homeschooling For Excellence.
TDrnkngGrd : Bool.
BARB FRED  : Yes..Homeschooling For Excellence!!
TDrnkngGrd : book
Clayvessel : Have you checked your shirt for extra items lately 
AKMomOf3   : You can reach Alaska by car, train, boat, plane...
DonnaStaub : LOL
Felicitas  : Kayak
Felicitas  : Snowshoe
Gleebigg   : AK> also snowshoes, skis, 
AKMomOf3   : What's the hs for excellence?? I was too busy 
DonnaStaub : sled team
Felicitas  : Dogsled!
DonnaStaub : HI  Eagleing
DonnaStaub : I have to go  Hubby's turn
SandraDodd : ferry
BARB FRED  : The book by the Colfaxes
DonnaStaub : He just got home
AKMomOf3   : dogsled, snowshoe, skies, snowmobile.. yep.. those 
SandraDodd : Bye, DonnaStaub!
Gleebigg   : bye Donna
KaeKaeB    : I HAVE GOT TO GO!  My dh is going to leave me if I 
             dont let him online.  Night, night folks
TDrnkngGrd : For some reason, it doesn't poop on people.
DonnaStaub : paratrooping   hang gliding......LOL
BARB FRED  : bye donna
TDrnkngGrd : We've had her for two weeks. Great bird.
DonnaStaub : LOL  Kae   same here
DonnaStaub : * byebey*
Estrgraham : What I meant was do you live in town or way out in 
             the country somewhere?
DonnaStaub : *byebye*
Felicitas  : Lucky people!
AKMomOf3   : Colfaxes.. are they the ones that had one called 
             Growing Without Schooling?
Estrgraham : Night KK
TDrnkngGrd : No.
SandraDodd : Growing Without Schooling is a magazine founded by 
             John Holt.
Eagleing10 : hi room!!!
TDrnkngGrd : THat's John Holt.
AKMomOf3   : Estre...  Sorry... Yes, I live in a town.. North 
TDrnkngGrd : Hello.
BARB FRED  : YES AK, now you got it!!
KaeKaeB    : Nghty night!
Gleebigg   : Hi Eagle
TDrnkngGrd : Hey, did that lady really homeschool her children?
Estrgraham : Merry Christmas KK
RELTOND    : Good night KK.
Felicitas  : I have to go, too, I think.
Felicitas  : Kiddos need to go beddy bye
Estrgraham : TD,Read her profile.  It says so
TDrnkngGrd : Why Fel.
Eagleing10 : whats happening?
AKMomOf3   : Barb.. ya'll are too fast 4 me... got what??
Felicitas  : and i need to go, period.
TDrnkngGrd : Got a date?
Estrgraham : We are discussing Homes schooling
Clayvessel : Nite all.
Felicitas  : Only with ER in an hour
BARB FRED  : "Homeschooling for Excellence" was written by David 
             and Micki Colfax!
Estrgraham : Night Fel.  Merry Christmas
TDrnkngGrd : I thought we were discussing affairs?
Felicitas  : My date is working tonight, which is why I was HERE
TDrnkngGrd : Date?
BARB FRED  : I type a lot faster now than I did two weeks ago when 
             I first got on-line!!
Felicitas  : Oh, you know, the usual one.
RELTOND    : Barb:  Thanks, I'll check it out.
BARB FRED  : Hubby??
Felicitas  : Yea, that guy.
SandraDodd : So dh stands for date/husband now?
TDrnkngGrd : Oh, him.
Felicitas  : Date/nut?
BARB FRED  : anytime REL....It is a wonderful book!
TDrnkngGrd : Always thinking about food.
Felicitas  : Yeah, that's the one!
SandraDodd : Flakey.
Felicitas  : Hey, I haven't had dinner yet!
AKMomOf3   : Sandra... THANKS for the 
             English/Shakespeare/Chaucer/etc. lesson on the 
Felicitas  : I was too enthralled with you all!
SandraDodd : Anytime, AKMom.
TDrnkngGrd : Aw, shucks.
RELTOND    : Good night all,  must go.  Have a Blessed Christmas.
BARB FRED  : Hi mob and eagle
TDrnkngGrd : Bye.
SandraDodd : I spew and spout in spurts.
TDrnkngGrd : More like a volcano but we love her dearly.
BARB FRED  : Bye REL, I will email sometime!!
Felicitas  : I'd better go lest I moisten my computer chair.
MobTx      : hi barb
AKMomOf3   : I've got a semi-long hs question.. is anyone up to 
             listening and tying to answer??
Felicitas  : You didn't really want to know that, did you?
AKMomOf3   : I do not believe I received a quality ps education 
             myself.. very basic, VERY limited...
AKMomOf3   : and of couse, like the other parents here.. 
BARB FRED  : Hi dhr
D HR LADY  : hello room
AKMomOf3   : we have realized that the ps system isn't going to be 
             the best place for our children..
SandraDodd : Felicitas, forbear!
AKMomOf3   : but, since I feel my OWN education is so limited, how 
             in the world can I expect to be able
Felicitas  : OK, there was a simple solution to my problem -- I'm 
SandraDodd : AkMom this is a happy, easy answer.
AKMomOf3   : to open the doors to the world of learning for the 
AKMomOf3   : Oh GOODY!
BARB FRED  : that quick??? and it solved your problem??
Felicitas  : :-)
SandraDodd : I'm not saying "don't worry" because someone 
             somewhere said that was rude today.
TDrnkngGrd : Roots and wings. We give them the opportunity to 
             learn how to learn.
SandraDodd : Worry a little if it makes you feel better. 
Eagleing10 : anyone here into Boy Scouts of America?
SandraDodd : If there's something you don't feel like an expert 
             on, learn it WITH your kids.
AKMomOf3   : Well, I don't want to worry.. I am LOVING learning 
             with the boys,
SandraDodd : If there's something they're interested in but you 
             have absolutely not one bit of interest or
TDrnkngGrd : Hey, this homeschooling thing makes family life fun. 
             Enjoy it.
Felicitas  : I plan on learning the times tables some day.
BARB FRED  : AK, We share what we know with our children when we 
             homeschool...but mostly, we teach them
SandraDodd : knowledge, let them learn it without you.
MobTx      : our son participates in boy scouts
AKMomOf3   : but sometimes (ok, OFTEN) I feel like they are soooo 
             much smarter than me!
TDrnkngGrd : It's too late fel. Buy a calculator.
SandraDodd : There are teachers (paid professional yadayada 
             teachers) who are just one day ahead of the kids
Felicitas  : OK
12/19/96 10:01:59 PM Opening “judyfaron chat 12/18#2” for recording.
how to learn and how to find out those things that 
             they really want to know about
Eagleing10 : what program is he in?
JodyJohn   : Hi, ya'll, I'm another homeschooling mom
MobTx      : wolf
SandraDodd : lots of times, in some new information, new book, 
             piece of literature, whatever.
Eagleing10 : how long has he been in cubs?
TDrnkngGrd : hi Jody.
Felicitas  : My dh and I started reading "classic" fiction that we 
             avoided in school, because of Star Trek movies
BARB FRED  : Be open to what interests them and then go learn with 
             them...They will love you for it!!
AKMomOf3   : What I try to do, is answer their questions, and if I 
             don't know the answer, we go searching
AKMomOf3   : for it together..
MobTx      : since last year
JodyJohn   : Hi, TD.  Mob--I'm a den leader -- mixed den of 
             tigers, wolves and bear
AKMomOf3   : either the www, library, message boards, etc..   Is 
             this an "alright" approach?
Felicitas  : That's the ticket, AK
Eagleing10 : he is ready to move on to bears?
BARB FRED  : Homeschooling is not about having enough education to 
             fill "empty heads"
SandraDodd : I think it's the best approach.
SandraDodd : Do you know there are lots of people out there either 
             making up answers or telling the kids they
SandraDodd : don't need to know?
MobTx      : not yet we are taking it slowly-maybe next year
Felicitas  : Education is not the filling of a vessel, but the 
             lighting of a fire (or something like that!)
AKMomOf3   : I'm glad you all agree.  I think when I was in ps, I 
             learned WHAT to learn, instead of HOW
BARB FRED  : An Excellent approach AK
AKMomOf3   : to learn.
Eagleing10 : is he 8 yrs or 9 yrs?
Felicitas  : That's exactly it, AK
MobTx      : he is 7
AKMomOf3   : And for my children, I REALLY want to instill the 
             HOW.. That way, they'll be able to
AKMomOf3   : learn about ANYTHING they want!
AKMomOf3   : I hope.
Felicitas  : They don't want you to learn on your own in ps
Eagleing10 : so is he into tiger cubs? 
SandraDodd : AKMom if there's something you can't find in a book 
             or video or online, we can help you.  There are
MobTx      : we are working on 2nd grade materials this year
BARB FRED  : That is right AK, we all did--and now we all have to 
             un-learn that!!
Felicitas  : (lions and tigers and bears, oh my)
SandraDodd : people in the homeschooling forum with all kinds of 
             knowledge and contacts and ideas.
TDrnkngGrd : Ak you are on the right track.
MobTx      : he likes being a wolf
MobTx      : we had fun on a recent camping trip
SandraDodd : Heck no, if kids in PS started learning on their own, 
             teachers wouldn't be in control and wouldn't
Eagleing10 : my wife is a wolf leader
SandraDodd : be able to take credit for everything.
TDrnkngGrd : Many bewcomers are so set in their ways. They want to 
             be just like schoolers.
Felicitas  : Or justify their salaries
JodyJohn   : My son is a tiger - he'll be 7 on Sunday.  He can't 
             wait to become a wolf (second grade) -
JodyJohn   : they have achievements, etc.
TDrnkngGrd : bewcomers=newcomers.
MobTx      : i'm not interested but he needs an outlet
BARB FRED  : Stop worrying AK, do things in homeschool the 
             same way we do...and I am not afraid
AKMomOf3   : Ok, next question..  As an unschooler (at least 90%), 
             should I worry about things like..
Gleebigg   : Sandra>yet teachers will blame parents when things 
             are bad
BARB FRED  : to admit that in some areas, kids ARE smarter 
             than me!!
AKMomOf3   : diagramming sentences, math facts, blah blah blah.. 
             book reports... etc..
SandraDodd : Yeah, that's the current fad--saying parents are 
             responsible for their children's learning
TDrnkngGrd : No.
Eagleing10 : cubs is a good program for that age but I really 
             enjoy the boy scouts
Felicitas  : No
TDrnkngGrd : Next question.
SandraDodd : "smart" and knowledgeable aren't the same thing.
BARB FRED  : next question?
SandraDodd : Some pretty slow-thinking people are full of facts, 
             and vice versa.
AKMomOf3   : that was quick!
JodyJohn   : AK -- They do need to understand how to write well -- 
             if they go on to college that will be
JodyJohn   : very important -- that's where diagramming comes in
Felicitas  : Nobody diagrams sentences in real life. Grammar is 
             learned by ear\
MobTx      : What else does your son enjoy
TDrnkngGrd : They need to speak well writing comes later.
SandraDodd : Facts don't do any good if you can't figure out how 
             to recombine them and to use them in real situatio
SandraDodd : ssituations
SandraDodd : situations
AKMomOf3   : Well, if they are reading, and reading "good" things 
             (well written), won't they learn to
TDrnkngGrd : Oratory skills are more important.
MischaBear : not to interrupt, but what is the topic?
BARB FRED  : My kids learn grammar by reading extensively and 
             seeing how grammar works
AKMomOf3   : write well?
JodyJohn   : Not completely, Felicitas -- I know a lot of 
             intelligent people who could use help in that
JodyJohn   : area
TDrnkngGrd : Does the child speak in complete sentences, are his 
             parent srticulate?
TDrnkngGrd : How wide is the vocabulary range?
Felicitas  : AK, I think that's true
TDrnkngGrd : Americans harp on writing skills but can't read or 
             speak worth beans.
BARB FRED  : hi Mischa
MischaBear : Hi Barb
JodyJohn   : Diagramming sentences is just a foundational tool, 
             just as mathematics has foundation
MischaBear : is this all homeschooling?
MobTx      : no
AKMomOf3   : ok.. next question:  In ps, there is reporting done 
             for everything: science experiments, etc
TDrnkngGrd : Intelligent people are not necessarily good speakers.
MischaBear : I went to public schools and never learned how to 
             diagram a sentence..
BARB FRED  : Diagramming turned my kids OFF sooooo fast....and 
             they are all articulate speakers for
MobTx      : someone is having a strange conversation
AKMomOf3   : but my guys seem to absorb so much by "doing" and 
             reading, that I think it's
BARB FRED  : their age and write well too
TDrnkngGrd : Diagramming sentences ruins good sentence structure 
             and has dumbed down American books.
QuiltCrazy : Hi everybody
Felicitas  : I never learned sentence diagramming in English class 
             - I was TAUGHT it, but I didn't learn it
AKMomOf3   : really monotonous to make them write minute details 
             about everything they do..
TDrnkngGrd : Compare the language of those who do not diagram to 
             those owho do.
Felicitas  : I learned it in high school German
Gleebigg   : when my son was in ps, his vocabulary became limited
JodyJohn   : AK -- reporting is necessary when you have 30-60 
             students -- how else does a teacher
TDrnkngGrd : Did Shakespeare diagram sentences?
BARB FRED  : Let them continue DOING...they will learn so much 
JodyJohn   : know what the child has learned
SandraDodd : I don't know if Shakespeare diagrammed sentences, 
JodyJohn   : one-on-one, there has to be a better way than 
Gleebigg   : since hs, vocabulary has increased that many of the 
             kids still in ps ask their parents "What
SandraDodd : I don't know what Latin instruction was like in those 
             days, but lots of grammar was learned that
Gleebigg   : did he say"
SandraDodd : way, I understand.
TDrnkngGrd : Sandra, Of course not!
AKMomOf3   : For example: Last week, they saw a PBS show about 
             Mars.. and learned tons!
SandraDodd : It had an effect on English, too.  Some Latin rules 
             were applied to English, because Latin was
SandraDodd : considered an ideal language and English a kind of 
             trashy language by comparison.
AKMomOf3   : They haven't written a thing about it, but have 
             talked about it all week!
SandraDodd : That's why we're not supposed to split infinitives, 
             because of Latin.
BARB FRED  : If I tell my child to read a book and then do a 
             report they FLAT REFUSE to read the book!!
AKMomOf3   : And then Zac wanted to go to the library to get more 
             information about the planets to read
Felicitas  : TD, the Calif. schools are going to make the teachers 
             accept "black english" as an ESL thing
TDrnkngGrd : By the time a child has written a report he could 
             have read 10 more books.
JodyJohn   : I'd probably only have them do a report if I needed 
             it for their portfolio
SandraDodd : Book reports are weird.
TDrnkngGrd : I think it's wrong to call it Black english.
Felicitas  : more bilingual ed money, I guess
SandraDodd : They're ways for teachers to get "proof" without 
             actually interacting with the child.
TDrnkngGrd : I'm black and you have heard me speak.
Gleebigg   : we read a short story on Mozart, my 8 year old now 
             has an interest in him, listens to his
AKMomOf3   : TDrnkngGrd... GOOD ONE!! (about the 10 books to 1 
             book report)
BARB FRED  : Excellent, AK.....are you really worried about your 
             homeschool or just trying to show us up?
Gleebigg   : music and tonight we picked up a book on Mozart, 
             which he had to read tonight
JodyJohn   : Sandra -- We have to give the teachers a little bit 
             of a break -- how do you interact with
JodyJohn   : that many kids?
TDrnkngGrd : I think she's showing off. Go on girl.
AKMomOf3   : Barb.. no, not worried about the hs.. a bit concerned 
             about the state..
TDrnkngGrd : It's the Quilt!!!
JodyJohn   : What state, AK?
SandraDodd : Donna, how do we know you don't speak jive which 
             would be inintelligible to us at home? Pidgin-
AKMomOf3   : want to avoid the issue of reporting/standardized 
BARB FRED  : Stop worrying...
TDrnkngGrd : No. I don't.
SandraDodd : Pacific-Northwest-Black-English
QuiltCrazy : Hi TD
AKMomOf3   : ALASKA... AK  Mom  Of 3   :-D
TDrnkngGrd : You have heard how I always speak.
SandraDodd : I used to think, when I was a kid, that the Queen of 
             England used to put on that weird accent to be
SandraDodd : on TV and that probably at home, like on the toilet, 
             she talked just like I did!  LOL!!!!
SandraDodd : I'm just joking, you know, most of the time in my 
             whole life.
JodyJohn   : LOL
Felicitas  : The Queen of England never uses the toilet! 
TDrnkngGrd : When I listen to the language skills of educators, I 
JodyJohn   : She never has sex, either 
SandraDodd : JodyJohn, I WAS a teacher.
Gleebigg   : b
SandraDodd : I taught English.
BARB FRED  : Me too, TD!!
MobTx      : quit picking on teachers
JodyJohn   : Sorry, that was not nice
Felicitas  : She must have, how else did Charlie get here?
TDrnkngGrd : Thanks Barb. I thought it was just me.
BARB FRED  : I am majoring in English in college
MobTx      : so
SandraDodd : Can we still pick on the Queen, MobTx?
MobTx      : yes
SandraDodd : When I was teaching I didn't require written book 
             reports.  They're awful.
AKMomOf3   : Regarding the state... Last winter, I started hsing.. 
             reported/registered liek I should have
TDrnkngGrd : Okay, radio show hosts, TV anchormen to name a few. 
             Almost all have rotten speaking skills.
MobTx      : i'm a teacher too
Gleebigg   : when daughter started new school, her honors english 
             teacher said she was so 'tared'
QuiltCrazy : I'm having such a good time reading, I can't think of 
             what to write:)
SandraDodd : I used to have the kid come and sit with me and we'd 
             talk about the book.  If it looked like they
JodyJohn   : Good for you!  I love reading (just came home from 
             Barnes & Nobles), but hate book reports
AKMomOf3   : this fall, w/ new baby and "jitters" put them back in 
Gleebigg   : my daughters response was 'are you feathered also'
SandraDodd : were faking it I'd send them back to come back in 
             another couple of days.
MobTx      : hi
AKMomOf3   : brought them home again Nov 5..
TDrnkngGrd : "Tared" and feathered?
Felicitas  : Glee, did the teacher get the joke?
JodyJohn   : Glee - LOL
AKMomOf3   : and with dh the "structure guy", started using the 
             district correspondence program...
QuiltCrazy : My boys, ages 12 and 10, are not big readers. I don't 
             think they know how to read for 
SandraDodd : Sick & tared.
BARB FRED  : GOOD, "go" girl
AKMomOf3   : which I hate
QuiltCrazy : pleasure and enjoyment.
Gleebigg   : No, daughter told her to go back to college and learn 
             to speak correctly
MobTx      : I'm new to homeschooling and its not just the 
             teachers problem
SandraDodd : College doesn't undo people's accents.
SandraDodd : Prejudice against accents and dialects isn't nice.
TDrnkngGrd : THey still ahve time Quilt.
Gleebigg   : in this county it's not accent it's dialect
Felicitas  : Sez yooo.
TDrnkngGrd : have.
BARB FRED  : That is because they had to read what they were told 
             to read in school.  Let them read
AKMomOf3   : so next fall, I want to drop the district 
SandraDodd : Some people consciously try to speak "standard" 
             English (especially to be on TV) but those who chose
BARB FRED  : anything they want,,,,(well, not porno) 
SandraDodd : to peak the way their parents did should be allowed 
             to peacefully coexist with those more
TDrnkngGrd : Accents and dialects are one thing.
TDrnkngGrd : Rotten language skills are another.
SandraDodd : selfconscious people who adopt someone else's accent.
JodyJohn   : Agreed, TD!
Felicitas  : Sandra, TV guys try to talk like NPR guys
QuiltCrazy : Glee, I'm working on it. I think the best way to 
             teach reading is by example.
SandraDodd : people move to New Mexico from New York and try to 
             lose their accents.  It never works. 
AKMomOf3   : but I don't know how to get around the requirements 
             for using a curriculum.  Any ideas??
TDrnkngGrd : Those with accents and dialects will ahve a harder 
             time being employed. Fact.
Felicitas  : NPR sounds the same everywhere
QuiltCrazy : AK, I use Core Knowledge as my foundation, and build 
             from there.
TDrnkngGrd : I'm not hired to get on a stage to say "She be goin' 
             ta da stoo."
JodyJohn   : Everyone has an accent; some are just more distinct
BARB FRED  : Mob, I know what you is the whole 
             precept...the foundation of the system that is
BARB FRED  : faulty
TDrnkngGrd : TV Guys wish they could talk like NPR guys. 
BARB FRED  : Try an umbrella school, AK
QuiltCrazy : I think those NPR guys sound so soothing.
JodyJohn   : I am Southern - my accent is not "country Southern", 
             but definitely there.  However, I
Gleebigg   : a speech therapist in the schools here, who is from 
             PA, said she had never heard anything
SandraDodd : My mom talks like West Texas, still, even though 
             she's been in northern New Mexico since 1960.
JodyJohn   : speak proper English (most of the time)
Gleebigg   : like the dialect spoken in this county
AKMomOf3   : Barb.. Wouldn't I still have to do some reporting 
             then?? I'd like to get away from all of it
SandraDodd : I can speak Wes'Texis if I need to.  
QuiltCrazy : BARB, did you get know in Warner Robins?
JodyJohn   : AK - does your state require reporting?
QuiltCrazy : Barb, I meant SNOW!!!
BARB FRED  : You report to the Umbrella school...who reports to 
             the state :-)
BARB FRED  : NO SNOW in Warner Robins,.....darn it!!
AKMomOf3   : I'm supposed to follow a curriculum, report grades.. 
             transcripts..standardized testing..
JodyJohn   : NO SNOW in Miami --- darn it!!
AKMomOf3   : yuck! I want my children to be free!
TDrnkngGrd : Why AK?
QuiltCrazy : We have a little in OK, and baby it is COLD!
Felicitas  : Is that a trick question, TD?
BARB FRED  : You want to stay out of trouble with the law too, AK
AKMomOf3   : TDrnkngGrd.. Why what? Report of Free?
AKMomOf3   : Yes Barb!
JodyJohn   : In Florida we must "show progress" each year and 
             report via standardized test, teacher
JodyJohn   : review or county review
TDrnkngGrd : Good thing I'm in WA. Our law makes it possible for 
             me to be legal.
BARB FRED  : Sound tough Jody....move to GA  :-)
AnneGolden : In Utah, we don't have to report anything. :)
JodyJohn   : What does GA require?
QuiltCrazy : OK laws are great. But right now we're being 
             "hounded" over a child abuse case
Felicitas  : OK I really have to go put my kiddos to bed!
TDrnkngGrd : If I moved I'd probably hide.
Gleebigg   : in NC standardized test at end of year
AKMomOf3   : Plus, I'm supposed to file an affadavit of compliance 
             that is notarized!!
BARB FRED  : Standardized test every 3rd year..but you don't have 
             to turn in test scores...
SandraDodd : It's harder to hide when you're famous, don't you 
AnneGolden : wow.
QuiltCrazy : when a little boy was murdered and his parents 
             covered it up by saying they were hsing
TDrnkngGrd : THat's the way they get in. Through child protective 
             services. No truancy laws.
TDrnkngGrd : Yes Sandra.
SandraDodd : AkMom, we're supposed to do that here--the intent to 
             homeschool form has some things you're supposed
BARB FRED  : Send in attendance forms for 180 days,....but they 
             never check..aren't allowed to
SandraDodd : to agree to and you sign it and it has to be 
TDrnkngGrd : I'd have to become unknown in order to hide.
SandraDodd : Good luck about that!  
BARB FRED  : That is terrible Quilt!!!!!
JodyJohn   : The county also has the right to meet parent(s) in 
             August to review portfolio -- cannot
JodyJohn   : require seeing child
AKMomOf3   : Sandra.. do you sign it or ingnore it?
AnneGolden : I don't understand the requirement to notarize the 
             form - why?
SandraDodd : I have signed some, but not lately.
JodyJohn   : TD -- are you someone famous?
Felicitas  : Boy, there are lots of reasons to be glad I'm in 
SandraDodd : I think just so the kids can't fake it. 
TDrnkngGrd : All I have to sign is a declaration of intent.
BARB FRED  : No portfolio review, no accountability, no 
             monitoring....a little slice of heaven!!!
Felicitas  : She's Michelle Pfeifer
TDrnkngGrd : No, Whitney Houston.
JodyJohn   : LOL
AKMomOf3   : The funny part is, that the State office never even 
             knew that the kids had been back in
AKMomOf3   : ps this fall...
SandraDodd : Jody, she speaks at conferences, puts out a magazine, 
             has a catalog of books...
Felicitas  : Oh, whatever.
QuiltCrazy : It was so shocking. The family was on the underside 
             of everything.
BARB FRED  : Sandra, are you famous?
AKMomOf3   : nor do they know that the kids are still registered 
             in the "system" as correspondence
AKMomOf3   : students
SandraDodd : ONly in the homeschooling forum on AOL. 
AnneGolden : Her catalog stuff gets to your house fast!
TDrnkngGrd : Is the mother of 3, 3 wife of one, homeschools her 
Felicitas  : Quilt, I though it was the mom who was murdered, or 
             is that a different case?
JodyJohn   : Anne - they probably require notarized signature so 
             that they could use it against you --
JodyJohn   : legal stuff
AnneGolden : bummer.
TDrnkngGrd : 2 days. FEDEX
QuiltCrazy : That must be a different one.
AKMomOf3   : So I'm thinking that if I dump the district in the 
             fall, that they'll lose track of us anywa
AKMomOf3   : anyway,.
TDrnkngGrd : 2 points Fel.
Felicitas  : Barb, Sandra isn't famous. Sandra is divine.
SandraDodd : I think JodyJohn's right about why.  So that the 
             family can't say "We didn't know the requirements"
QuiltCrazy : Barb, are the GA laws really that good. 
BARB FRED  : Really?  I need to get to know Sandra!  :-) 
SandraDodd : I just ooze into people's consciousness against their 
SandraDodd : Some are glad.
TDrnkngGrd : (I'd dump them but who am I to say...)
BARB FRED  : YES< YES< YES....I can send you a copy if you want me 
             to !!!!
SandraDodd : Some get really irritated about it!  
Felicitas  : I'm grateful. really.
QuiltCrazy : Barb, I love it!
AnneGolden : oozing - interesting adjective to apply to oneself  
AKMomOf3   : Sandra... I like it.. ooze all ya want! :)
BARB FRED  : Everybody....MOVE to GA!!!!
SandraDodd : Not like pus, like the blob.
Felicitas  : Sandra is GAK
JodyJohn   : Do you have an extra room, BARB?
QuiltCrazy : Who's here from FL? What are the laws like there. I 
             wasn't paying attention before.
Gleebigg   : lived there, unhappy
TDrnkngGrd : Never go back to Georgia,
SandraDodd : No, not like the blob, like dippity do. 
AKMomOf3   : No way Barb.. no white Christmas there!
AnneGolden : I loved Florida when I lived there.
BARB FRED  : yeah, no snow :-(
AnneGolden : The weather was wonderful, it was warm,
Felicitas  : Everybody move to Calif!
SandraDodd : No way, Felicitas.
QuiltCrazy : Anne, where were you in FL. I left Ft. Walton Beach 
             three years ago.
AnneGolden : there were beaches and Disneyland.
TDrnkngGrd : Fel, I'll be there in the spring.
BARB FRED  : no way, I heard CA was hard to HS in
Gleebigg   : lived in CA for 9 years
AnneGolden : I lived in Gainesville.
Felicitas  : You'll be broke, but the hs laws are cake
AKMomOf3   : Everybody move to Alaska and help me fight for our 
SandraDodd : California's a nice place to visit but I wouldn't 
             want to register a car there or pay rent
TDrnkngGrd : We're going to Disney World next year.
Felicitas  : Barb, who told you that?
BARB FRED  : Gainsville, GA??
AnneGolden : Disney World was GREAT.
TDrnkngGrd : Helen is moving to Alaska. Helen of Home Education 
AnneGolden : Gainesville, Florida.
SandraDodd : Isn't it cold in Alaska?
AnneGolden : My husband was getting his PhD at the University of 
SandraDodd : LOLOL
TDrnkngGrd : Is it near Cocoa Beach. I'll be there.
BARB FRED  : A friend of mine from CA, but then again that was her 
             excuse for NOT homeschooling
SandraDodd : It was 18 degrees here in Albuquerque yesterday with 
             the sun shining in a clear sky.
AnneGolden : When you go to Disney World, make sure you spend at 
             least a day at Epcot.
BARB FRED  : Really? TD?
SandraDodd : Might as well have been in Alaska
TDrnkngGrd : Yes.
Felicitas  : She's mistaken. Here, you file an R-4 affidavit 
             declaring yourself a homeschool.
Gleebigg   : going to FL in March to space camp
JodyJohn   : I lived in Gainesville for 4 years -- have been in 
             Miami for 4 1/2 years
TDrnkngGrd : I'll be there between May and July. No set date.
TDrnkngGrd : Hubby's job.
Felicitas  : Scuse me, a PRIVATE school!
AnneGolden : My son went to Space camp and loved it.
QuiltCrazy : Sandra, I love ALBQ.
BARB FRED  : oh, jody
Gleebigg   : son is really excited, it's a Christmas present

12/19/96 10:32:32 PM Opening “judyfaron chat 12/18#3” for recording.

TDrnkngGrd : My son doesn't want to leave home. I want him to go 
             to space camp.
BARB FRED  : any monitoring in CA?
Felicitas  : The state doesn't want any responsibility for its own 
             failings, so they leave private schools alone
Gleebigg   : and birthday
SandraDodd : I have to go read to the kids now.  They finally 
             quieted down.  This was a lot of fun, folks.
Felicitas  : No, Barb
AnneGolden : There is a parent-child option at space camp.
TDrnkngGrd : Bye Sandra.
SandraDodd : Aerobic typing.
AKMomOf3   : Hey all.... Thanks so much for your help...
AnneGolden : Fingers smoking.
BARB FRED  : WONDERFUL....Florida sounds like a real PAIN!
AKMomOf3   : my baby is wanting his mommy!
Gleebigg   : we're going to the parent child space camp, son not 
             old enough to attend alone
Felicitas  : The only thing the state requires is that you keep 
             attendance, and they need a subpeona to see that.
12/19/96 11:17:10 PM Closing Log file.