children are people
[email protected]
In yet another rant received privately (and I'm sorry some other list
members are receiving not-so-nice side mail from athe0007@...; I wish he would
stop harrassing our list members), a statement was made that is a perfect
example of a difference between the way most of the people here seem to see their
children and... well...
Here is it:
"What you're doing to people and children is
unethical."
My response was that I wasn't doing anything to people; I'm just writing.
What I probably should've added was "children are people," but I've thought
that way for so long that it seemed not worth saying. I forget that some
people are coming at it as a new idea.
Polly Berrien Berends refers to infants as "seeing beings," and that changed
my life, when I read While Child/Whole Parent, when Kirby was a baby. To
realize so profoundly that his whole, real life was fully in progress changed MY
whole, real life. And that's the purpose of her book, and the meaning of the
title. When we help our child to be whole, or rather when we acknowledge
and honor his wholeness, seeing him as the seeing being he is, then we know that
we too are, and always were, "seeing beings." We are as much a part of that
child's world as he is of ours, and we are both part of the same wholeness.
Kinda cosmic. <g> WHOLLY cosmic.
And in practical terms, if we make a priority of helping to guard the
integrity of his being, it creates (or rather it helps uncover and restore) an
integrity and a wholeness in us.
What might this unethical thing be that I'm "doing to people" (including ch
ildren)?
Just sharing what I have learned and done with my children, and hearing what
they've learned and done, saving the good parts and recommending other things
to read/see/hear/consider.
I don't think 'unethical' means what he thinks it means.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
members are receiving not-so-nice side mail from athe0007@...; I wish he would
stop harrassing our list members), a statement was made that is a perfect
example of a difference between the way most of the people here seem to see their
children and... well...
Here is it:
"What you're doing to people and children is
unethical."
My response was that I wasn't doing anything to people; I'm just writing.
What I probably should've added was "children are people," but I've thought
that way for so long that it seemed not worth saying. I forget that some
people are coming at it as a new idea.
Polly Berrien Berends refers to infants as "seeing beings," and that changed
my life, when I read While Child/Whole Parent, when Kirby was a baby. To
realize so profoundly that his whole, real life was fully in progress changed MY
whole, real life. And that's the purpose of her book, and the meaning of the
title. When we help our child to be whole, or rather when we acknowledge
and honor his wholeness, seeing him as the seeing being he is, then we know that
we too are, and always were, "seeing beings." We are as much a part of that
child's world as he is of ours, and we are both part of the same wholeness.
Kinda cosmic. <g> WHOLLY cosmic.
And in practical terms, if we make a priority of helping to guard the
integrity of his being, it creates (or rather it helps uncover and restore) an
integrity and a wholeness in us.
What might this unethical thing be that I'm "doing to people" (including ch
ildren)?
Just sharing what I have learned and done with my children, and hearing what
they've learned and done, saving the good parts and recommending other things
to read/see/hear/consider.
I don't think 'unethical' means what he thinks it means.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Betsy Hill
** What might this unethical thing be that I'm "doing to people"
(including children)?**
Apparently you are hog-tying them to their computer terminals and
freezing their browsers so that they can't ever be exposed to any other
ideas about education than yours. (Imagine the sound of demented
cackling right here.) And you are disabling their critical thinking
skills so that they nod as they read every word. And you probably
hypnotized them, with your Pokemon powers <g>, so that they've forgotten
anything they might have learned about institutional schooling when they
(or their kids) were in it. Their brains are blank slates and you are
filling them with only your thoughts in an otherwise thought-free
environment of mindless acquiescence. (With powers like these, it's
amazing the goverment hasn't commandeered you and put you to work for
their nefarious purposes.)
Betsy
(including children)?**
Apparently you are hog-tying them to their computer terminals and
freezing their browsers so that they can't ever be exposed to any other
ideas about education than yours. (Imagine the sound of demented
cackling right here.) And you are disabling their critical thinking
skills so that they nod as they read every word. And you probably
hypnotized them, with your Pokemon powers <g>, so that they've forgotten
anything they might have learned about institutional schooling when they
(or their kids) were in it. Their brains are blank slates and you are
filling them with only your thoughts in an otherwise thought-free
environment of mindless acquiescence. (With powers like these, it's
amazing the goverment hasn't commandeered you and put you to work for
their nefarious purposes.)
Betsy
Deb Lewis
"What you're doing to people and children is unethical."
All the people on this list live in the real world. They all have lives
and jobs and hobbies and family and friends and problems and history.
No member of this list is imprisoned here. Everyone on this list has
Internet access or e-mail access and that means they can get other news
and information from other sources. Most every list member has TV or
radio or a telephone and can get or get to a newspaper or magazine.
Most everyone lives near a town with at least one school.
The guy who wrote this seems to think y'all are just stuck here, at
UnschoolingDiscussion with no other people in the whole world to talk to,
no other way to get any other ideas in your head. Or maybe he thinks you
never had other ideas, ever. Maybe he thinks you can't leave this list
and go to another.
I think he believes you all need to be exposed to *his* ideas. Those of
you who feel that need could write to him, he seems perfectly ok with
*lots* of unsolicited e-mail correspondence. <beg>
Deb L, drinking Silk nog, feeling sassy, watching "The Big Lebowski"
All the people on this list live in the real world. They all have lives
and jobs and hobbies and family and friends and problems and history.
No member of this list is imprisoned here. Everyone on this list has
Internet access or e-mail access and that means they can get other news
and information from other sources. Most every list member has TV or
radio or a telephone and can get or get to a newspaper or magazine.
Most everyone lives near a town with at least one school.
The guy who wrote this seems to think y'all are just stuck here, at
UnschoolingDiscussion with no other people in the whole world to talk to,
no other way to get any other ideas in your head. Or maybe he thinks you
never had other ideas, ever. Maybe he thinks you can't leave this list
and go to another.
I think he believes you all need to be exposed to *his* ideas. Those of
you who feel that need could write to him, he seems perfectly ok with
*lots* of unsolicited e-mail correspondence. <beg>
Deb L, drinking Silk nog, feeling sassy, watching "The Big Lebowski"
Deb Lewis
***And you probably
hypnotized them, with your Pokemon powers***
Well, that explains a LOT. I was kinda mesmerized in Peabody, MA in
2004 when I heard her speak. I thought it was her gentle voice and
inspiring message but now I can see that's what she wanted me to think...
Deb L
"This aggression will not stand, man." ~ The Dude
(abides)
hypnotized them, with your Pokemon powers***
Well, that explains a LOT. I was kinda mesmerized in Peabody, MA in
2004 when I heard her speak. I thought it was her gentle voice and
inspiring message but now I can see that's what she wanted me to think...
Deb L
"This aggression will not stand, man." ~ The Dude
(abides)
elainegh8
Oh I don't know about that! I live in Unga Bunga land with Kelly ;)
BWs Elaine
BWs Elaine
> All the people on this list live in the real world.
Deb Lewis
***Oh I don't know about that! I live in Unga Bunga land with Kelly ;)***
Oh, ahem, my apologies to the Butterfly people...<g>
I've embraced the Unga Bunga too. Krisula mentioned the whistle and
they do that here. The kids don't have to get on their knees but they
are required to squat and stay there until the aid blows the whistle
again.
In some martial arts clubs during sparring students will turn away from
their opponent and get on their knees if they've landed a hard blow or
their opponent seems to be injured. They don't get up until the Sensei
gives the word. Schools, maybe, want martial arts discipline on the
playground.
In the classrooms the teachers use clapping. Clap, clap, clapclapclap,
and the kids have to clap the pattern back at the teacher and immediately
sit down wherever they are. It's incredibly creepy to see. Shivers me
timbers. Everyone involved in the school acts as if it's perfectly
normal. And when you force a group of people into a situation they
don't want to be in, when they have no power to change the situation or
opt out the only way to maintain any sense of personal identity is to
sometimes, or regularly, oppose the power that keeps you there. So the
schools need to find a way to keep the inmates from rioting.
I'm glad my son is not controlled by whistles and claps. He uses his own
good judgement. I wish I didn't know how those other kids are treated, I
wish they weren't being altered. I'm sorry the scary, brain washing,
Direct Instruction stuff spooked Kelly.<g>
Deb L
Oh, ahem, my apologies to the Butterfly people...<g>
I've embraced the Unga Bunga too. Krisula mentioned the whistle and
they do that here. The kids don't have to get on their knees but they
are required to squat and stay there until the aid blows the whistle
again.
In some martial arts clubs during sparring students will turn away from
their opponent and get on their knees if they've landed a hard blow or
their opponent seems to be injured. They don't get up until the Sensei
gives the word. Schools, maybe, want martial arts discipline on the
playground.
In the classrooms the teachers use clapping. Clap, clap, clapclapclap,
and the kids have to clap the pattern back at the teacher and immediately
sit down wherever they are. It's incredibly creepy to see. Shivers me
timbers. Everyone involved in the school acts as if it's perfectly
normal. And when you force a group of people into a situation they
don't want to be in, when they have no power to change the situation or
opt out the only way to maintain any sense of personal identity is to
sometimes, or regularly, oppose the power that keeps you there. So the
schools need to find a way to keep the inmates from rioting.
I'm glad my son is not controlled by whistles and claps. He uses his own
good judgement. I wish I didn't know how those other kids are treated, I
wish they weren't being altered. I'm sorry the scary, brain washing,
Direct Instruction stuff spooked Kelly.<g>
Deb L
Michael Atherton
All that anyone has to do to stop being "harrassed" (which really
mean reading an alternative point of view) is to say that no
longer want to receive email.
Michael
mean reading an alternative point of view) is to say that no
longer want to receive email.
Michael
--- In [email protected], SandraDodd@a... wrote:
>
> In yet another rant received privately (and I'm sorry some other
list
> members are receiving not-so-nice side mail from athe0007@u...; I
wish he would
> stop harrassing our list members), a statement was made that is a
perfect
> example of a difference between the way most of the people here
seem to see their
> children and... well...
>
> Here is it:
>
> "What you're doing to people and children
is
> unethical."
>
> My response was that I wasn't doing anything to people; I'm just
writing.
>
> What I probably should've added was "children are people," but I've
thought
> that way for so long that it seemed not worth saying. I forget
that some
> people are coming at it as a new idea.
>
> Polly Berrien Berends refers to infants as "seeing beings," and
that changed
> my life, when I read While Child/Whole Parent, when Kirby was a
baby. To
> realize so profoundly that his whole, real life was fully in
progress changed MY
> whole, real life. And that's the purpose of her book, and the
meaning of the
> title. When we help our child to be whole, or rather when we
acknowledge
> and honor his wholeness, seeing him as the seeing being he is, then
we know that
> we too are, and always were, "seeing beings." We are as much a
part of that
> child's world as he is of ours, and we are both part of the same
wholeness.
>
> Kinda cosmic. <g> WHOLLY cosmic.
>
> And in practical terms, if we make a priority of helping to guard
the
> integrity of his being, it creates (or rather it helps uncover and
restore) an
> integrity and a wholeness in us.
>
> What might this unethical thing be that I'm "doing to people"
(including ch
> ildren)?
> Just sharing what I have learned and done with my children, and
hearing what
> they've learned and done, saving the good parts and recommending
other things
> to read/see/hear/consider.
>
> I don't think 'unethical' means what he thinks it means.
>
> Sandra
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/12/05 8:37:03 AM, athe0007@... writes:
"Harrassed" does NOT "really mean" reading an alternative point of view.
Here's some recent harrassment I received, and the "alternate" part is that
it's apparently from an alternate universe. I thought the first one seemed
vaguely threatening:
Subj: Pandora
Date: Friday, November 11, 2005 2:22:52 PM
From: athe0007@...
To: SandraDodd@...
You're foolish to have opened the box.
-----------------------------------------------------------
That was all. It was hours later when I saw it.
It had been followed a little while later with more:
------------------------------------------------------------
Subj: Pandora
Date: Friday, November 11, 2005 2:51:07 PM
From: athe0007@...
To: SandraDodd@...
Just in case you interpret my last message incorrectly,
what I was referring to, was that now that you've got
people thinking about these things, they are (like
the children) going to what to know the other side
and they're going to start looking. In order to sell
"Radical Unschooling" you need to shelter people from
other perspectives, because it won't stand close
scrutiny. That's why you can't let me post. What
you're doing to people and children is unethical.
You are free to post this to your list.
=======================================================================
The most interesting part was the "people and children" thing.
The most ludicrous part is the idea that somehow unschoolers are isolated.
There are MANY school-at-home families who do that to isolate ("protect")
their children, but unschoolers have never been among them (except maybe the
TV-avoiding unschoolers).
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> All that anyone has to do to stop being "harrassed" (which reallyI love receiving e-mail. It's nice when it's edited and well thought out.
> mean reading an alternative point of view) is to say that no
> longer want to receive email.
>
"Harrassed" does NOT "really mean" reading an alternative point of view.
Here's some recent harrassment I received, and the "alternate" part is that
it's apparently from an alternate universe. I thought the first one seemed
vaguely threatening:
Subj: Pandora
Date: Friday, November 11, 2005 2:22:52 PM
From: athe0007@...
To: SandraDodd@...
You're foolish to have opened the box.
-----------------------------------------------------------
That was all. It was hours later when I saw it.
It had been followed a little while later with more:
------------------------------------------------------------
Subj: Pandora
Date: Friday, November 11, 2005 2:51:07 PM
From: athe0007@...
To: SandraDodd@...
Just in case you interpret my last message incorrectly,
what I was referring to, was that now that you've got
people thinking about these things, they are (like
the children) going to what to know the other side
and they're going to start looking. In order to sell
"Radical Unschooling" you need to shelter people from
other perspectives, because it won't stand close
scrutiny. That's why you can't let me post. What
you're doing to people and children is unethical.
You are free to post this to your list.
=======================================================================
The most interesting part was the "people and children" thing.
The most ludicrous part is the idea that somehow unschoolers are isolated.
There are MANY school-at-home families who do that to isolate ("protect")
their children, but unschoolers have never been among them (except maybe the
TV-avoiding unschoolers).
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
April
What's ludicrous is the assumption that most of us have not come from an
"alternate point of view" to begin with.
It's also rather insulting that he assumes that we are not capable of
evaluating information as we have traveled the path towards and into
unschooling.
Sheltered?! Isolated?! We have been called many things, and accused of
much, but sheltered and isolated are not words that are usually used to
describe my family.
As far as being 'unethical', many of us might use the same word to describe
the coercion and manipulation needed to make many schools work.
~April
Mom to Kate-19, Lisa-16, Karl-14, & Ben-10.
*REACH Homeschool Grp, an inclusive group in Oakland County
<http://www.reachhomeschool.com> www.reachhomeschool.com
* Michigan Unschoolers
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/michigan_unschoolers/>
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/michigan_unschoolers/
*Check out Chuck's art! <http://www.artkunst23.com/>
http://www.artkunst23.com
"Know where to find the information and how to use it - That's the secret of
success."
Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
_____
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of
SandraDodd@...
Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2005 10:45 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Re: children are people
In a message dated 11/12/05 8:37:03 AM, athe0007@... writes:
"Harrassed" does NOT "really mean" reading an alternative point of view.
Here's some recent harrassment I received, and the "alternate" part is that
it's apparently from an alternate universe. I thought the first one seemed
vaguely threatening:
Subj: Pandora
Date: Friday, November 11, 2005 2:22:52 PM
From: athe0007@...
To: SandraDodd@...
You're foolish to have opened the box.
-----------------------------------------------------------
That was all. It was hours later when I saw it.
It had been followed a little while later with more:
------------------------------------------------------------
Subj: Pandora
Date: Friday, November 11, 2005 2:51:07 PM
From: athe0007@...
To: SandraDodd@...
Just in case you interpret my last message incorrectly,
what I was referring to, was that now that you've got
people thinking about these things, they are (like
the children) going to what to know the other side
and they're going to start looking. In order to sell
"Radical Unschooling" you need to shelter people from
other perspectives, because it won't stand close
scrutiny. That's why you can't let me post. What
you're doing to people and children is unethical.
You are free to post this to your list.
=======================================================================
The most interesting part was the "people and children" thing.
The most ludicrous part is the idea that somehow unschoolers are isolated.
There are MANY school-at-home families who do that to isolate ("protect")
their children, but unschoolers have never been among them (except maybe the
TV-avoiding unschoolers).
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
"List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
<http://www.unschooling.info>
_____
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
* Visit your group "UnschoolingDiscussion
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UnschoolingDiscussion> " on the web.
* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]?subject=Unsubscrib
e>
* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.
_____
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
"alternate point of view" to begin with.
It's also rather insulting that he assumes that we are not capable of
evaluating information as we have traveled the path towards and into
unschooling.
Sheltered?! Isolated?! We have been called many things, and accused of
much, but sheltered and isolated are not words that are usually used to
describe my family.
As far as being 'unethical', many of us might use the same word to describe
the coercion and manipulation needed to make many schools work.
~April
Mom to Kate-19, Lisa-16, Karl-14, & Ben-10.
*REACH Homeschool Grp, an inclusive group in Oakland County
<http://www.reachhomeschool.com> www.reachhomeschool.com
* Michigan Unschoolers
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/michigan_unschoolers/>
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/michigan_unschoolers/
*Check out Chuck's art! <http://www.artkunst23.com/>
http://www.artkunst23.com
"Know where to find the information and how to use it - That's the secret of
success."
Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
_____
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of
SandraDodd@...
Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2005 10:45 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Re: children are people
In a message dated 11/12/05 8:37:03 AM, athe0007@... writes:
> All that anyone has to do to stop being "harrassed" (which reallyI love receiving e-mail. It's nice when it's edited and well thought out.
> mean reading an alternative point of view) is to say that no
> longer want to receive email.
>
"Harrassed" does NOT "really mean" reading an alternative point of view.
Here's some recent harrassment I received, and the "alternate" part is that
it's apparently from an alternate universe. I thought the first one seemed
vaguely threatening:
Subj: Pandora
Date: Friday, November 11, 2005 2:22:52 PM
From: athe0007@...
To: SandraDodd@...
You're foolish to have opened the box.
-----------------------------------------------------------
That was all. It was hours later when I saw it.
It had been followed a little while later with more:
------------------------------------------------------------
Subj: Pandora
Date: Friday, November 11, 2005 2:51:07 PM
From: athe0007@...
To: SandraDodd@...
Just in case you interpret my last message incorrectly,
what I was referring to, was that now that you've got
people thinking about these things, they are (like
the children) going to what to know the other side
and they're going to start looking. In order to sell
"Radical Unschooling" you need to shelter people from
other perspectives, because it won't stand close
scrutiny. That's why you can't let me post. What
you're doing to people and children is unethical.
You are free to post this to your list.
=======================================================================
The most interesting part was the "people and children" thing.
The most ludicrous part is the idea that somehow unschoolers are isolated.
There are MANY school-at-home families who do that to isolate ("protect")
their children, but unschoolers have never been among them (except maybe the
TV-avoiding unschoolers).
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
"List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
<http://www.unschooling.info>
_____
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
* Visit your group "UnschoolingDiscussion
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UnschoolingDiscussion> " on the web.
* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]?subject=Unsubscrib
e>
* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.
_____
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Angela
<<<Just in case you interpret my last message incorrectly, what I was
referring to, was that now that you've got people thinking about these
things, they are (like the children) going to what to know the other side
and they're going to start looking. In order to sell
"Radical Unschooling" you need to shelter people from other perspectives,
because it won't stand close
scrutiny. >>>
It's been my observation that most people come to unschooling often as a
last resort when they've tried everything else and that has failed their
children. Personally, I discovered unschooling before my children were
school age. They just continued learning as they had done before they
turned 5, with my support. (although over time I came to understand
unschooling better) They are not sheltered as to the other alternatives out
there. They know they are free to go to public school anytime they wish.
They are also free to choose to learn about anything on the planet with my
help. Their world is larger than a classroom.
Angela
game-enthusiast@...
referring to, was that now that you've got people thinking about these
things, they are (like the children) going to what to know the other side
and they're going to start looking. In order to sell
"Radical Unschooling" you need to shelter people from other perspectives,
because it won't stand close
scrutiny. >>>
It's been my observation that most people come to unschooling often as a
last resort when they've tried everything else and that has failed their
children. Personally, I discovered unschooling before my children were
school age. They just continued learning as they had done before they
turned 5, with my support. (although over time I came to understand
unschooling better) They are not sheltered as to the other alternatives out
there. They know they are free to go to public school anytime they wish.
They are also free to choose to learn about anything on the planet with my
help. Their world is larger than a classroom.
Angela
game-enthusiast@...
NANCY OWENS
I'm still 50 some messages behind, but I'm sitting here reading the subject line and message, thinking about the past few hours I've spent catching up, and I realize how mesmerized I can become. <g> But the funny *I think, but not ha ha funny,* thing is, someone is watching an episode of Family Guy in the other room. (As annoyingly full of crap and demeaning as it is, I'm always laughing at something.) Peter just told Lois something like he doesn't have to listen to her because women aren't real people. And that is the same kind of message we get from people like this. Women aren't people, children aren't people. We have to be told what to do and how to do it. And no one should listen to either group. <sigh>
~Nancy
SandraDodd@... wrote:
Here is it:
"What you're doing to people and children is
unethical."
My response was that I wasn't doing anything to people; I'm just writing.
What I probably should've added was "children are people," but I've thought
that way for so long that it seemed not worth saying. I forget that some
people are coming at it as a new idea.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
~Nancy
SandraDodd@... wrote:
Here is it:
"What you're doing to people and children is
unethical."
My response was that I wasn't doing anything to people; I'm just writing.
What I probably should've added was "children are people," but I've thought
that way for so long that it seemed not worth saying. I forget that some
people are coming at it as a new idea.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
diana jenner
SandraDodd@... wrote:
This makes me sad... of course he's not unschooling, he doesn't
believe HUMAN BEINGS can discern, not even the grown-up ones. I've not
met unschoolers who want minions, mindless souls in need of a spoon-fed
life (if you're hiding out there, stay hidden!) the most of us (and all
I've met in real life) want the opposite -- real people who think for
themselves and have a joyful, whole, existence (one they'd gladly repeat
over and over for all time).
I've joked about this, even called Sandra *the Doddess* -- but my
worship of Sandra is for reasons that I doubt this person can
understand... like the fact that she's a *real* person who had *real*
life experiences that sucked (and almost sucked the capacity for joy
right out of her) and yet she knew/knows that the world can be a better
place for little humans, so she works (not tries, WORKS) every day to
ensure her children & *OURS* don't suffer the consequences of our
choiceless childhoods.
Kelly, this is why Live & Learn is the most amazing conference in
existence -- it is REAL time with REAL people living REAL lives sharing
REAL joy -- it is Unschooling in Action. It is where we can come to
meet people (of all sizes shapes and ages) and be inspired by their
reality of unschooling. I would love for all of the Michaels in the
world to come along to Albuquerque, put the notepad aside and just *BE*
there, soaking in the incredible vibes. THEN, ask about our choices and
why they matter -- see the proof in the joyous faces of our families, in
the support we give to one another (even when Sandra isn't looking <g>),
the inspiration our children are to one another...
To inspire and be inspired (freely exchange the word "challenge"), I
imagine that is why most of us are here, sharing our lives and our
thoughts -- with each other and with our families. I am a better person
because of this list, I'm even better than that because I've reached out
IRL to people this list and the conference have led me to. My children
are happier and healthier than I can imagine I *ever* was (before age 35
anyway ;) all because I have the *freedom* to *choose* this lifestyle.
The whole wide world is about what unschooling isn't. Michael
didn't come here and shine a light onto anything new and exciting. I've
lived the world outside of unschooling and I will carry those scars with
me forever. I'm so thankful that unschooling is so very unlike school
and our school-centric society, I'm glad to be here by choice (and my
children are, too!).
So now that I've had done to me whatever it is Michael thinks Sandra
is capable of doing, I say Thanks, my children say Thanks, and my unborn
grandchildren say Thanks :)
:) diana
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>Subj: Pandora=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
>Date: Friday, November 11, 2005 2:51:07 PM
>From: athe0007@...
>To: SandraDodd@...
>
>Just in case you interpret my last message incorrectly,
>what I was referring to, was that now that you've got
>people thinking about these things, they are (like
>the children) going to what to know the other side
>and they're going to start looking. In order to sell
>"Radical Unschooling" you need to shelter people from
>other perspectives, because it won't stand close
>scrutiny. That's why you can't let me post. What
>you're doing to people and children is unethical.
>
>You are free to post this to your list.
>
This makes me sad... of course he's not unschooling, he doesn't
believe HUMAN BEINGS can discern, not even the grown-up ones. I've not
met unschoolers who want minions, mindless souls in need of a spoon-fed
life (if you're hiding out there, stay hidden!) the most of us (and all
I've met in real life) want the opposite -- real people who think for
themselves and have a joyful, whole, existence (one they'd gladly repeat
over and over for all time).
I've joked about this, even called Sandra *the Doddess* -- but my
worship of Sandra is for reasons that I doubt this person can
understand... like the fact that she's a *real* person who had *real*
life experiences that sucked (and almost sucked the capacity for joy
right out of her) and yet she knew/knows that the world can be a better
place for little humans, so she works (not tries, WORKS) every day to
ensure her children & *OURS* don't suffer the consequences of our
choiceless childhoods.
Kelly, this is why Live & Learn is the most amazing conference in
existence -- it is REAL time with REAL people living REAL lives sharing
REAL joy -- it is Unschooling in Action. It is where we can come to
meet people (of all sizes shapes and ages) and be inspired by their
reality of unschooling. I would love for all of the Michaels in the
world to come along to Albuquerque, put the notepad aside and just *BE*
there, soaking in the incredible vibes. THEN, ask about our choices and
why they matter -- see the proof in the joyous faces of our families, in
the support we give to one another (even when Sandra isn't looking <g>),
the inspiration our children are to one another...
To inspire and be inspired (freely exchange the word "challenge"), I
imagine that is why most of us are here, sharing our lives and our
thoughts -- with each other and with our families. I am a better person
because of this list, I'm even better than that because I've reached out
IRL to people this list and the conference have led me to. My children
are happier and healthier than I can imagine I *ever* was (before age 35
anyway ;) all because I have the *freedom* to *choose* this lifestyle.
The whole wide world is about what unschooling isn't. Michael
didn't come here and shine a light onto anything new and exciting. I've
lived the world outside of unschooling and I will carry those scars with
me forever. I'm so thankful that unschooling is so very unlike school
and our school-centric society, I'm glad to be here by choice (and my
children are, too!).
So now that I've had done to me whatever it is Michael thinks Sandra
is capable of doing, I say Thanks, my children say Thanks, and my unborn
grandchildren say Thanks :)
:) diana
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
nrskay
Kudos Diana -
That is exactly what I wanted to say in my earlier post about our
journey to unschooling. I'm glad we made that journey, however
painful it was for all of us. My family is very thankful for this new
way of life. I also want to thank all of the people on this list for
helping us on our journey. Many of the post are very informative and
I'm always on Sandra's site reading new insightful ways so that we can
be better parents.
Oh, and sorry to Rue when I meant Ren, great book by the way. I'm
reading it again and sharing some of it with my husband who is not a
reader.
This family is VERY thankful!
Kay
That is exactly what I wanted to say in my earlier post about our
journey to unschooling. I'm glad we made that journey, however
painful it was for all of us. My family is very thankful for this new
way of life. I also want to thank all of the people on this list for
helping us on our journey. Many of the post are very informative and
I'm always on Sandra's site reading new insightful ways so that we can
be better parents.
Oh, and sorry to Rue when I meant Ren, great book by the way. I'm
reading it again and sharing some of it with my husband who is not a
reader.
This family is VERY thankful!
Kay
Rue Kream
>>Oh, and sorry to Rue when I meant Ren**No problem. It's part of our whole magical-mystical-twin-thingy :o).
~Rue
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Dawn Adams
>Just in case you interpret my last message incorrectly,1) You 'sell' unschooling Sandra? You must be making, oh, millions by now. How can I get a piece of that? :)
>what I was referring to, was that now that you've got
>people thinking about these things, they are (like
>the children) going to what to know the other side
>and they're going to start looking. In order to sell
>"Radical Unschooling" you need to shelter people from
>other perspectives, because it won't stand close
>scrutiny. That's why you can't let me post. What
>you're doing to people and children is unethical.
>
>You are free to post this to your list.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
2) He must think we chain ourselves to the computer and never explore beyond this list and Sandra's website. What a funny little man. Poor guy needs a laxative.
Dawn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/12/05 4:08:59 PM, hahamommy@... writes:
were invited to. The archives are public; you don't have to join to read.
It really put a damper on my morning, even aside from the flat out
dishonesty. There has been more unhappiness deposited there in the less-than-a-month
of its existence than I think all my children together have experienced in the
past ten years. I'm so used to life being pleasant and sweet and funny that
I'm starting to forget what downers some people's lives can be.
It's possible to avoid cynicism and depression and wallowing. There's an
advantage to living as peacefully and merrily as possible.
No, not an advantage.
There are countless advantages to finding the joy in little moments and the
hope and happiness in big ones.
Also, most people from the conference love me for my Marty. They figure
Marty must be proof of something good. (Now that so many have met Keith I
might get less secondary glow as Marty's mom, but it was nice while it lasted. <g>
)
All my kids have been especially happy and busy this week. Kirby (19) is
teaching karate four hours a week now (up from one), and supposed to be going to
adult classes twice a week. "Supposed to" means is invited and encouraged.
He went Monday for two and a half hours and Wednesday opted out to go to a
gaming night. He worked every day this week at Dion's pizza, at least three
hours a day too. Last night he was part of the volunteer set-up crew for a
Halo tournament at a hotel in town, and was there most of the day. He didn't
come home last night (I didn't really expect him to), and there was e-mail this
morning letting me know where he had stayed and that the tournament was
starting at 10:00 a.m. He called late afternoon to tell me he was out, one
friend was still in, and he would pick up the equipment he had loaned when the
tournament ended or his friend was out, if they didn't still need it. I think he
took one XBox, two TVs and a power strip.
Marty (16) got more computer memory and so his City of Heroes game is working
better, and he's been doing that a lot, and working on some leather armor.
His part involves sewing. Keith did some leather tooling on part of it.
People at next fall's conference might get to see it finished.
Holly (14) has been doing some art with new gel pens she got for her birthday
last week, watching the first season of Third Rock from the Sun (also a
birthday gift), and chatting with friends online. She would like to be playing
Halo2 tonight she said, but Kirby's XBox is gone. Twice this week she's said
"I really miss Kirby when he's gone." She has started making him food and
taking it to him. He doesn't ask her to, she just notices that he might be
hungry and makes something they both like. For years she adored Marty and
didn't like Kirby as much, but lately they're spending more time together.
It's what Diana/hahamommy said: "a joyful, whole, existence (one they'd
gladly repeat
> -=-I've notI did go and read for a while at that homeschooling discussion list people
> met unschoolers who want minions, mindless souls in need of a spoon-fed
> life (if you're hiding out there, stay hidden!) the most of us (and all
> I've met in real life) want the opposite -- real people who think for
> themselves and have a joyful, whole, existence (one they'd gladly repeat
> over and over for all time).-=-
>
were invited to. The archives are public; you don't have to join to read.
It really put a damper on my morning, even aside from the flat out
dishonesty. There has been more unhappiness deposited there in the less-than-a-month
of its existence than I think all my children together have experienced in the
past ten years. I'm so used to life being pleasant and sweet and funny that
I'm starting to forget what downers some people's lives can be.
It's possible to avoid cynicism and depression and wallowing. There's an
advantage to living as peacefully and merrily as possible.
No, not an advantage.
There are countless advantages to finding the joy in little moments and the
hope and happiness in big ones.
Also, most people from the conference love me for my Marty. They figure
Marty must be proof of something good. (Now that so many have met Keith I
might get less secondary glow as Marty's mom, but it was nice while it lasted. <g>
)
All my kids have been especially happy and busy this week. Kirby (19) is
teaching karate four hours a week now (up from one), and supposed to be going to
adult classes twice a week. "Supposed to" means is invited and encouraged.
He went Monday for two and a half hours and Wednesday opted out to go to a
gaming night. He worked every day this week at Dion's pizza, at least three
hours a day too. Last night he was part of the volunteer set-up crew for a
Halo tournament at a hotel in town, and was there most of the day. He didn't
come home last night (I didn't really expect him to), and there was e-mail this
morning letting me know where he had stayed and that the tournament was
starting at 10:00 a.m. He called late afternoon to tell me he was out, one
friend was still in, and he would pick up the equipment he had loaned when the
tournament ended or his friend was out, if they didn't still need it. I think he
took one XBox, two TVs and a power strip.
Marty (16) got more computer memory and so his City of Heroes game is working
better, and he's been doing that a lot, and working on some leather armor.
His part involves sewing. Keith did some leather tooling on part of it.
People at next fall's conference might get to see it finished.
Holly (14) has been doing some art with new gel pens she got for her birthday
last week, watching the first season of Third Rock from the Sun (also a
birthday gift), and chatting with friends online. She would like to be playing
Halo2 tonight she said, but Kirby's XBox is gone. Twice this week she's said
"I really miss Kirby when he's gone." She has started making him food and
taking it to him. He doesn't ask her to, she just notices that he might be
hungry and makes something they both like. For years she adored Marty and
didn't like Kirby as much, but lately they're spending more time together.
It's what Diana/hahamommy said: "a joyful, whole, existence (one they'd
gladly repeat
> over and over for all time)"Sandra
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
diana
--- In [email protected], SandraDodd@a... wrote:
have met Keith I might get less secondary glow as Marty's mom, but it
was nice while it lasted. <g>)
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Nah, not less, you get extra points for being marrying Keith ;)
:) diana
> Also, most people from the conference love me for my Marty. Theyfigure Marty must be proof of something good. (Now that so many
have met Keith I might get less secondary glow as Marty's mom, but it
was nice while it lasted. <g>)
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Nah, not less, you get extra points for being marrying Keith ;)
:) diana
diana jenner
diana wrote:
~diana :)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> being marrying Keith ;)a bizarre combination of being Keith's wife and marrying Keith ;)
>
>
~diana :)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Betsy Hill
** Also, most people from the conference love me for my Marty. They
figure
Marty must be proof of something good. (Now that so many have met
Keith I
might get less secondary glow as Marty's mom, but it was nice while it
lasted. <g>
) **
Are you saying people are giving Keith some of the credit? :-)
I've got a sweet tempered kid and could probably delude myself that I'm
a fabulous mom and I made it all happen [1] , but it's seems even more
likely that he's a close genetic copy of my sweet tempered husband.
Betsy
[1] I'm not saying that YOU don't deserve credit, just admitting that
maybe I don't.
figure
Marty must be proof of something good. (Now that so many have met
Keith I
might get less secondary glow as Marty's mom, but it was nice while it
lasted. <g>
) **
Are you saying people are giving Keith some of the credit? :-)
I've got a sweet tempered kid and could probably delude myself that I'm
a fabulous mom and I made it all happen [1] , but it's seems even more
likely that he's a close genetic copy of my sweet tempered husband.
Betsy
[1] I'm not saying that YOU don't deserve credit, just admitting that
maybe I don't.
Robyn Coburn
<<<<< 2) He must think we chain ourselves to the computer and never explore
beyond this list and Sandra's website.>>>>
Mind you there are enough links starting at Sandra's website to go around
the world a dozen times and the result can be being chained to the computer
in fascination. Thank goodness Jayn pulls me away from bondage vile
sometimes. ;)
Robyn L. Coburn
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.0/167 - Release Date: 11/11/2005
beyond this list and Sandra's website.>>>>
Mind you there are enough links starting at Sandra's website to go around
the world a dozen times and the result can be being chained to the computer
in fascination. Thank goodness Jayn pulls me away from bondage vile
sometimes. ;)
Robyn L. Coburn
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.0/167 - Release Date: 11/11/2005
Ren Allen
"Just in case you interpret my last message incorrectly,
what I was referring to, was that now that you've got
people thinking about these things, they are (like
the children) going to what to know the other side
and they're going to start looking. In order to sell
"Radical Unschooling" you need to shelter people from
other perspectives, because it won't stand close
scrutiny."
Before this, I was mildly amused at his disbelief over the unschooling
lifestyle. Now I'm offended.
He must think us all mindless twits that look to Sandra for all of our
information and close out all other sources!! How would that even be
possible?
In order to GET to radical unschooling, one must search high and low,
read, read, read, question oneself and ones upbringing, question
everything one EVER believed true about learning and education and
eventually find their way to unschooling and perhaps some other people
that understand!!!
I attended 13 years of school, plus a trade school. I was involved in
the pre-school and kindergarten year of my oldest child...from joining
the PTA to serving on the Program Delivery Council (an elected
position), I was INVOLVED. I researched various educational methods
and found my soul drawn to Montessori, Waldorf and Charlotte Mason. I
read much of John Holt and thought it made the most sense of anything
I'd ever read on children and learning. I read Grace Lewellyn and
decided that humans didn't need schooling of any kind....only a
passionate and interesting life of their choosing.
It was a long journey to unschooling for me.
Where on earth does he think the average person is going to find
unschooling information BEFORE all the school methods and paradigms???
HOW would that even happen?
You only get to unschooling after being exposed to other kinds of
thought....that's pretty safe to say in our school-saturated world.
I am offended that he thinks so little of my intelligence and every
thoughtful, mindful person at this list. I am offended that he seems
to believe we're thoughtless enough to look to ONE person for all our
information (that would be a practice shunned by any unschooler I
know), I am offended that he's willing to share his low thoughts of us
in public.
Life's too short for your negative fixations Mr. Atherton. There's a
big grand world out there waiting to be explored. We'll all be off
exploring it while you sit around discussing why we shouldn't allow
our children to learn by exploring the world with us. Sad.
Ren
what I was referring to, was that now that you've got
people thinking about these things, they are (like
the children) going to what to know the other side
and they're going to start looking. In order to sell
"Radical Unschooling" you need to shelter people from
other perspectives, because it won't stand close
scrutiny."
Before this, I was mildly amused at his disbelief over the unschooling
lifestyle. Now I'm offended.
He must think us all mindless twits that look to Sandra for all of our
information and close out all other sources!! How would that even be
possible?
In order to GET to radical unschooling, one must search high and low,
read, read, read, question oneself and ones upbringing, question
everything one EVER believed true about learning and education and
eventually find their way to unschooling and perhaps some other people
that understand!!!
I attended 13 years of school, plus a trade school. I was involved in
the pre-school and kindergarten year of my oldest child...from joining
the PTA to serving on the Program Delivery Council (an elected
position), I was INVOLVED. I researched various educational methods
and found my soul drawn to Montessori, Waldorf and Charlotte Mason. I
read much of John Holt and thought it made the most sense of anything
I'd ever read on children and learning. I read Grace Lewellyn and
decided that humans didn't need schooling of any kind....only a
passionate and interesting life of their choosing.
It was a long journey to unschooling for me.
Where on earth does he think the average person is going to find
unschooling information BEFORE all the school methods and paradigms???
HOW would that even happen?
You only get to unschooling after being exposed to other kinds of
thought....that's pretty safe to say in our school-saturated world.
I am offended that he thinks so little of my intelligence and every
thoughtful, mindful person at this list. I am offended that he seems
to believe we're thoughtless enough to look to ONE person for all our
information (that would be a practice shunned by any unschooler I
know), I am offended that he's willing to share his low thoughts of us
in public.
Life's too short for your negative fixations Mr. Atherton. There's a
big grand world out there waiting to be explored. We'll all be off
exploring it while you sit around discussing why we shouldn't allow
our children to learn by exploring the world with us. Sad.
Ren
Ren Allen
"**No problem. It's part of our whole magical-mystical-twin-thingy :o).
~Rue"
I'm so lucky.:)
Gosh Rue, I even got a comment at my blog about someone looking
forward to my book!! Sheesh...I'm just going to have to jump on the
bandwagon (mindless twit that I am) and write one.
Ren, slobbering, drooling, chained and mindless unschooling zombie
trying to form a thought worth posting.
~Rue"
I'm so lucky.:)
Gosh Rue, I even got a comment at my blog about someone looking
forward to my book!! Sheesh...I'm just going to have to jump on the
bandwagon (mindless twit that I am) and write one.
Ren, slobbering, drooling, chained and mindless unschooling zombie
trying to form a thought worth posting.
elainegh8
"Ren Allen" wrote:
I endured 8 years of English boarding school. My older daughter
aged 19 was in school for 2 years, tried 2 alternative schools and
then was home educated like school at home but a bit more relaxed.
Only after my younger daughter was born did we move to an eclectic
style of home education and she did attend (much to my regret) a
year of nursery.
It's only in the last couple of years that we have moved to
unschooling, it's been a very long journey. I have found mysefl
talking to my older daughter a lot about how I feel and have told
her I regret not knowing about unschooling fully when I was bring
her up.
I am also an online member of 2 national (UK) home education groups,
1 local group which I moderate, 1 consultation group to discuss and
respond to prospective legislation on Home Education, 1 Europe wide
home education group and of course I also belong to this group.
Offline I belong to one national home education support group, I
also subscribe to 2 independent home education magazines and am also
involved with our local home education group which I set up.
Although we don't go much now as we prefer to hang out with friends
at home or at their houses.
I also organise for local home educating families to meet up at an
Open Lunch event once a month (which is open to everyone) at a place
called the Open Centre who's aim it is to promote religious
tolerance. You get a LOT of view points there as there are a LOT of
different religions where I live.
I also started a Freecycle group for our city which has over 600
members.
So what world do I live in where I only listen to Sandra?? Not to
say by the way that she isn't entertaining and interesting. I enjoy
reading her stuff, not least because she has a sense of humour and
makes me laugh a LOT.
BWs Elaine
> Before this, I was mildly amused at his disbelief over theHi
>unschooling> lifestyle. Now I'm offended. He must think us all
>mindless twits that look to Sandra for all of our> information and
>close out all other sources!! How would that even be> possible?
> In order to GET to radical unschooling, one must search high and
>low,> read, read, read, question oneself and ones upbringing,
>question> everything one EVER believed true about learning and
>education and> eventually find their way to unschooling and perhaps
>some other people> that understand!!!
I endured 8 years of English boarding school. My older daughter
aged 19 was in school for 2 years, tried 2 alternative schools and
then was home educated like school at home but a bit more relaxed.
Only after my younger daughter was born did we move to an eclectic
style of home education and she did attend (much to my regret) a
year of nursery.
It's only in the last couple of years that we have moved to
unschooling, it's been a very long journey. I have found mysefl
talking to my older daughter a lot about how I feel and have told
her I regret not knowing about unschooling fully when I was bring
her up.
I am also an online member of 2 national (UK) home education groups,
1 local group which I moderate, 1 consultation group to discuss and
respond to prospective legislation on Home Education, 1 Europe wide
home education group and of course I also belong to this group.
Offline I belong to one national home education support group, I
also subscribe to 2 independent home education magazines and am also
involved with our local home education group which I set up.
Although we don't go much now as we prefer to hang out with friends
at home or at their houses.
I also organise for local home educating families to meet up at an
Open Lunch event once a month (which is open to everyone) at a place
called the Open Centre who's aim it is to promote religious
tolerance. You get a LOT of view points there as there are a LOT of
different religions where I live.
I also started a Freecycle group for our city which has over 600
members.
So what world do I live in where I only listen to Sandra?? Not to
say by the way that she isn't entertaining and interesting. I enjoy
reading her stuff, not least because she has a sense of humour and
makes me laugh a LOT.
BWs Elaine
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/12/05 9:20:04 PM, ecsamhill@... writes:
by being so little like me!
Before that they might have thought he was nice because I was his mom.
But knowing I would lose the Marty credit, I brought Keith and Kirby anyway.
-=-I've got a sweet tempered kid and could probably delude myself that I'm
a fabulous mom and I made it all happen [1] , but it's seems even more
likely that he's a close genetic copy of my sweet tempered husband.-=-
EGGGZactly.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>They'll just realize that Marty's the genetic copy of his dad, and lucked out
> -=-Are you saying people are giving Keith some of the credit? :-) -=-
>
by being so little like me!
Before that they might have thought he was nice because I was his mom.
But knowing I would lose the Marty credit, I brought Keith and Kirby anyway.
-=-I've got a sweet tempered kid and could probably delude myself that I'm
a fabulous mom and I made it all happen [1] , but it's seems even more
likely that he's a close genetic copy of my sweet tempered husband.-=-
EGGGZactly.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/12/05 10:26:18 PM, dezigna@... writes:
sites. And on the main unschooling page there's even (though it was risky
of me to put it there, I know) a plain old Google.com link. An escape hatch
right on the Radical Unschooling page.
I'm so cocky that I think people might still read some of the unschooling
stuff, even though they COULD bolt at any moment.
http://sandradodd.com/unschoolingotherwise (not all unschooling)
http://sandradodd.com/spanking especially this next one:
http://sandradodd.com/s/proof
Not all the deschooling articles are by unschoolers or on unschooling sites:
http://sandradodd.com/deschooling
Perhaps I could make a poison kool-aid site and the next time it looks like
our totally isolated cult might be discovered by some damnably clever person
from the outside you could all be directed there. We need a flash cartoon of
poison-kool-aid preparation, I guess, and a timer so we'll all know when to
drink it at the same time. I suppose that's doable, but nah--let's just spend
the time with our families instead, okay?
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Mind you there are enough links starting at Sandra's website to go aroundThere are links at my website to conservative sites, and other homeschooling
> the world a dozen times and the result can be being chained to the computer
> in fascination.
>
sites. And on the main unschooling page there's even (though it was risky
of me to put it there, I know) a plain old Google.com link. An escape hatch
right on the Radical Unschooling page.
I'm so cocky that I think people might still read some of the unschooling
stuff, even though they COULD bolt at any moment.
http://sandradodd.com/unschoolingotherwise (not all unschooling)
http://sandradodd.com/spanking especially this next one:
http://sandradodd.com/s/proof
Not all the deschooling articles are by unschoolers or on unschooling sites:
http://sandradodd.com/deschooling
Perhaps I could make a poison kool-aid site and the next time it looks like
our totally isolated cult might be discovered by some damnably clever person
from the outside you could all be directed there. We need a flash cartoon of
poison-kool-aid preparation, I guess, and a timer so we'll all know when to
drink it at the same time. I suppose that's doable, but nah--let's just spend
the time with our families instead, okay?
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/13/05 8:00:31 AM, starsuncloud@... writes:
(You're not very good at this mindless follower thing, sheeeeesh!)
Just keep posting whatever you want to, and write the good parts and make a
book.
I have spoken.
Off to buy kool-aid just in case...
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>I'll tell you what to post, and I'll tell you what to write in your book.
> -=-Ren, slobbering, drooling, chained and mindless unschooling zombie
> trying to form a thought worth posting.-=-
>
(You're not very good at this mindless follower thing, sheeeeesh!)
Just keep posting whatever you want to, and write the good parts and make a
book.
I have spoken.
Off to buy kool-aid just in case...
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ren Allen
"(You're not very good at this mindless follower thing, sheeeeesh!)"
Well apparently Mr. Atherton thought I was really GOOD at it. If I
fooled him, I'm sure there are others.....
If I'm going to worship anyone, it'll be ME. Bwwhahahahahaha.
Ren
Well apparently Mr. Atherton thought I was really GOOD at it. If I
fooled him, I'm sure there are others.....
If I'm going to worship anyone, it'll be ME. Bwwhahahahahaha.
Ren
wifetovegman2002
--- In [email protected], "Ren Allen"
<starsuncloud@n...> wrote:
which is the same thing.
:-)
~Susan M. in VA
wifetovegman
<starsuncloud@n...> wrote:
>Hmmm...sounds like a Ferris Buellerism -- or maybe a John Lennonism --
>
> If I'm going to worship anyone, it'll be ME. Bwwhahahahahaha.
>
which is the same thing.
:-)
~Susan M. in VA
wifetovegman
k
Ooops. No more benefit of doubt for Michael. He's not even close to
scientific inquiry. God that's annoyin'.
Kathe, who *would* laugh but ain't
STILL behind in email *sigh*
SandraDodd@... wrote:
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com
scientific inquiry. God that's annoyin'.
Kathe, who *would* laugh but ain't
STILL behind in email *sigh*
SandraDodd@... wrote:
> In a message dated 11/12/05 8:37:03 AM, athe0007@... writes:thought out.
>
>
>
>>All that anyone has to do to stop being "harrassed" (which really
>>mean reading an alternative point of view) is to say that no
>>longer want to receive email.
>>
>
>
> I love receiving e-mail. It's nice when it's edited and well
>view.
> "Harrassed" does NOT "really mean" reading an alternative point of
>is that
> Here's some recent harrassment I received, and the "alternate" part
> it's apparently from an alternate universe. I thought the first oneseemed
> vaguely threatening:=======================================================================
>
>
> Subj: Pandora
> Date: Friday, November 11, 2005 2:22:52 PM
> From: athe0007@...
> To: SandraDodd@...
>
> You're foolish to have opened the box.
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------
>
> That was all. It was hours later when I saw it.
>
> It had been followed a little while later with more:
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Subj: Pandora
> Date: Friday, November 11, 2005 2:51:07 PM
> From: athe0007@...
> To: SandraDodd@...
>
>
> Just in case you interpret my last message incorrectly,
> what I was referring to, was that now that you've got
> people thinking about these things, they are (like
> the children) going to what to know the other side
> and they're going to start looking. In order to sell
> "Radical Unschooling" you need to shelter people from
> other perspectives, because it won't stand close
> scrutiny. That's why you can't let me post. What
> you're doing to people and children is unethical.
>
> You are free to post this to your list.
>
>
>isolated.
> The most interesting part was the "people and children" thing.
>
> The most ludicrous part is the idea that somehow unschoolers are
> There are MANY school-at-home families who do that to isolate("protect")
> their children, but unschoolers have never been among them (exceptmaybe the
> TV-avoiding unschoolers).__________________________________
>
> Sandra
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