Hypocrite Unschooling and peaceful parenting with my kids but not with my 14 sis
naturalmommyx3
In advance I will apologize for the length of this. I have hesitated to write this for 2 weeks now, writing and rewriting, ahhh!
I am new to un-schooling and feel like a big hypocrite. My kids are 4,3,1 and my 14 year old sister is now on her fourth week living with us. My sister, Angel, came to live with me while she started Homeschooling through a virtual school. To keep this short here is how things are going:
She lies about doing her work
I have to nag everyday all day about her completing school tasks
Resorted to making her turn her phone off while working and denying her of going to see friends on weekends, etc.
She began doing her work in the late/early morning hours while Facebooking and texting.
She appears to have no interests and feels hopeless and admits she has no self esteem.
Literally she texts non stop, during movies, eating out together, EVERYTHING she does she only takes seconds of breaks inbetween. She barely can listen or hold a face to face conversation cause of this.
I had a talk with her and she just has no interest and wants to drop out but she is not old enough. So, I just feel so confused, here I am learning to unschool and learning peaceful parenting with my kids but doing the complete opposite with my sister. I feel like she is too old to begin un-schooling since I am in my learning stages and am only applying tidbits of knowledge at this point. I am currently reading the Sandra Dodd Big book of unschooling and she basically even says at this age it is too late if you learning at a slow pace.
Angel, has now come to realize she has to actually do more work than she did in school. In school, she just went and did the bare min., I feel like I just cant force her. nor do I want to, into completing her work. It is taking a lot out of me, naturally. But I cant just let her drop out of school now or my mom will have to deal with the consequences.
She just doesnt appear to have any interests. She is so full of 'I cants' and 'NOs' about everything. I feel like she is just screaming for attention but I dont know how to give it to her when she is so resistant of everything.
I really feel like a hypocrite but not sure how to handle a teenager that was raised the way she was and force her to do exactly what I do not agree with.
I live in Nevada and I dont know the laws really yet for high school homeschoolers.
I may be able to convince my mom to let me get her off this virtual school if I cant successfully report what they need to hear but something about this makes me nervous since I have to answer to my mom and husband about her 'success' ahhh I am sorry my post is not very focused. Right now I am not very focused and confused. Has anyone been through a similar situation? Any ideas or other schooling options that she may actually want to do? Anyone know the laws here in NV?
Thanks for listening to my rant.
-Christina
I am new to un-schooling and feel like a big hypocrite. My kids are 4,3,1 and my 14 year old sister is now on her fourth week living with us. My sister, Angel, came to live with me while she started Homeschooling through a virtual school. To keep this short here is how things are going:
She lies about doing her work
I have to nag everyday all day about her completing school tasks
Resorted to making her turn her phone off while working and denying her of going to see friends on weekends, etc.
She began doing her work in the late/early morning hours while Facebooking and texting.
She appears to have no interests and feels hopeless and admits she has no self esteem.
Literally she texts non stop, during movies, eating out together, EVERYTHING she does she only takes seconds of breaks inbetween. She barely can listen or hold a face to face conversation cause of this.
I had a talk with her and she just has no interest and wants to drop out but she is not old enough. So, I just feel so confused, here I am learning to unschool and learning peaceful parenting with my kids but doing the complete opposite with my sister. I feel like she is too old to begin un-schooling since I am in my learning stages and am only applying tidbits of knowledge at this point. I am currently reading the Sandra Dodd Big book of unschooling and she basically even says at this age it is too late if you learning at a slow pace.
Angel, has now come to realize she has to actually do more work than she did in school. In school, she just went and did the bare min., I feel like I just cant force her. nor do I want to, into completing her work. It is taking a lot out of me, naturally. But I cant just let her drop out of school now or my mom will have to deal with the consequences.
She just doesnt appear to have any interests. She is so full of 'I cants' and 'NOs' about everything. I feel like she is just screaming for attention but I dont know how to give it to her when she is so resistant of everything.
I really feel like a hypocrite but not sure how to handle a teenager that was raised the way she was and force her to do exactly what I do not agree with.
I live in Nevada and I dont know the laws really yet for high school homeschoolers.
I may be able to convince my mom to let me get her off this virtual school if I cant successfully report what they need to hear but something about this makes me nervous since I have to answer to my mom and husband about her 'success' ahhh I am sorry my post is not very focused. Right now I am not very focused and confused. Has anyone been through a similar situation? Any ideas or other schooling options that she may actually want to do? Anyone know the laws here in NV?
Thanks for listening to my rant.
-Christina
Schuyler
I don't know anything about the laws for Nevada. Google got me to here:
http://nevadahomeschoolnetwork.com/laws/. On the Nevada Homeschool Network's FAQ
pdf it states:
16. Can someone else homeschool my child?
One cannot “have” their child homeschooled by someone else. NRS 385.007 #3 and
NRS 392.070 #1b define homeschooling, and when combined: "Homeschooled child
means a child who receives instruction at home... (when) A parent of the child
chooses to
provide education to the child..." The parent assumes full responsibility for
the education
of their child by signing the Notice of Intent to Homeschool, and must provide
the
education. Providing the education means the parent can do their own teaching,
or use
others (such as a tutor), or have the child take classes (such as at a
homeschool co-op, a
private or public school, a civic or community group, a private organization,
etc), or use a
correspondence or on-line course, or do whatever else the parent deems
necessary. The
parent, not another person, organization, or school, is the one who has direct
managerial
control of the child's education.
I'm not sure what this means about your position as administrator of your
sister's homeschooling curriculum. But it may be worth your looking into.
-------------
Why are you homeschooling your sister while unschooling your own children? I
can't imagine that the one will help the other or vice versa. Did you offer in a
moment of hopefulness that you could make your sister's struggles easier? You
may need to reassess. Did your sister want to leave school and come and live
with you to homeschool? Or was it a kind of threat to get her to straighten up
and fly right?
I think it is very, very difficult to force someone else to do something that
you don't believe in. It's why my children aren't in school, and why they are
unschooled. Having to force someone else to follow the dictates of a structure
you don't believe in must be incredibly difficult. What happens if she fails?
What happens if she were to fail at school? Nevada doesn't require testing of
homeschooled children, which would suggest that her failure at correspondence
school wouldn't be a major factor in her ability to homeschool.
Can you produce a list of activities and exciting things to do that get all of
you out of the house and exploring more? Can you help your sister to achieve her
need for social time with her friends more? Facebook is an amazing tool, texting
and being able to keep in touch with friends may help if she's moved away from
where they live. Or is less able to see them because of the constraints of her
life with you. Can you help her to enjoy what she likes to do more instead of
working so hard to implement the educational system that you are working to move
away from?
Did she get out of school and then was immediately enrolled in a correspondence
school? One of the frequent pieces of homeschooling understanding is the idea of
deschooling. You give someone a chance to just be after they've gotten out of
school. Supporting them in their interests, but not pressing them to do anything
that looks like school. If her education is being used as a weapon to
demonstrate that she needs to buckle down and not be such a social butterfly who
is just getting by with the minimum that she can get by with, there is very
little chance for you to help her. If, instead, your mother and her husband are
interested in helping your sister to become more willing to engage with the
world, you could talk to them about deschooling and giving her time to really
heal from the intense damage that school and failing at school can do.
Some deschooling links that may help: http://sandradodd.com/deschooling
http://www.livingjoyfully.ca/unschooling/getting_started/what_is_deschooling.htm
http://sandradodd.com/pattiedeschooling
http://web.archive.org/web/20070220063843/http://home.rmci.net/abell/page11.htm
(all of those, but the first one, are stemming from Sandra's original page, if
you read that and follow her links you'll have done all that I just did)
Schuyler
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
http://nevadahomeschoolnetwork.com/laws/. On the Nevada Homeschool Network's FAQ
pdf it states:
16. Can someone else homeschool my child?
One cannot “have” their child homeschooled by someone else. NRS 385.007 #3 and
NRS 392.070 #1b define homeschooling, and when combined: "Homeschooled child
means a child who receives instruction at home... (when) A parent of the child
chooses to
provide education to the child..." The parent assumes full responsibility for
the education
of their child by signing the Notice of Intent to Homeschool, and must provide
the
education. Providing the education means the parent can do their own teaching,
or use
others (such as a tutor), or have the child take classes (such as at a
homeschool co-op, a
private or public school, a civic or community group, a private organization,
etc), or use a
correspondence or on-line course, or do whatever else the parent deems
necessary. The
parent, not another person, organization, or school, is the one who has direct
managerial
control of the child's education.
I'm not sure what this means about your position as administrator of your
sister's homeschooling curriculum. But it may be worth your looking into.
-------------
Why are you homeschooling your sister while unschooling your own children? I
can't imagine that the one will help the other or vice versa. Did you offer in a
moment of hopefulness that you could make your sister's struggles easier? You
may need to reassess. Did your sister want to leave school and come and live
with you to homeschool? Or was it a kind of threat to get her to straighten up
and fly right?
I think it is very, very difficult to force someone else to do something that
you don't believe in. It's why my children aren't in school, and why they are
unschooled. Having to force someone else to follow the dictates of a structure
you don't believe in must be incredibly difficult. What happens if she fails?
What happens if she were to fail at school? Nevada doesn't require testing of
homeschooled children, which would suggest that her failure at correspondence
school wouldn't be a major factor in her ability to homeschool.
Can you produce a list of activities and exciting things to do that get all of
you out of the house and exploring more? Can you help your sister to achieve her
need for social time with her friends more? Facebook is an amazing tool, texting
and being able to keep in touch with friends may help if she's moved away from
where they live. Or is less able to see them because of the constraints of her
life with you. Can you help her to enjoy what she likes to do more instead of
working so hard to implement the educational system that you are working to move
away from?
Did she get out of school and then was immediately enrolled in a correspondence
school? One of the frequent pieces of homeschooling understanding is the idea of
deschooling. You give someone a chance to just be after they've gotten out of
school. Supporting them in their interests, but not pressing them to do anything
that looks like school. If her education is being used as a weapon to
demonstrate that she needs to buckle down and not be such a social butterfly who
is just getting by with the minimum that she can get by with, there is very
little chance for you to help her. If, instead, your mother and her husband are
interested in helping your sister to become more willing to engage with the
world, you could talk to them about deschooling and giving her time to really
heal from the intense damage that school and failing at school can do.
Some deschooling links that may help: http://sandradodd.com/deschooling
http://www.livingjoyfully.ca/unschooling/getting_started/what_is_deschooling.htm
http://sandradodd.com/pattiedeschooling
http://web.archive.org/web/20070220063843/http://home.rmci.net/abell/page11.htm
(all of those, but the first one, are stemming from Sandra's original page, if
you read that and follow her links you'll have done all that I just did)
Schuyler
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
My brief search of Nevada hsing law showed it is a matter of a letter of intent from the parent. Here's a link that includes a sample letter of intent and samples of the educational plan required. http://nevadahomeschoolnetwork.com/intent/
Maybe between you, your sister and your Mom and her husband, you can develop a plan that has a better chance of working than the virtual school. Not to suggest that the required educational plan (which seems to be more a formality than anything) should be anything rigid. But, after the paperwork requirements are satisfied, maybe you could all figure out a way for your sister to be more in control of her own learning, with all of you helping.
We don't know all the circumstances, of course, but maybe with more say in the process, your sister will be happier and be able to coexist with your unschooling family.
Nance
Maybe between you, your sister and your Mom and her husband, you can develop a plan that has a better chance of working than the virtual school. Not to suggest that the required educational plan (which seems to be more a formality than anything) should be anything rigid. But, after the paperwork requirements are satisfied, maybe you could all figure out a way for your sister to be more in control of her own learning, with all of you helping.
We don't know all the circumstances, of course, but maybe with more say in the process, your sister will be happier and be able to coexist with your unschooling family.
Nance
--- In [email protected], "naturalmommyx3" <naturalmommyx2@...> wrote:
>
> In advance I will apologize for the length of this. I have hesitated to write this for 2 weeks now, writing and rewriting, ahhh!
>
> I am new to un-schooling and feel like a big hypocrite. My kids are 4,3,1 and my 14 year old sister is now on her fourth week living with us. My sister, Angel, came to live with me while she started Homeschooling through a virtual school. To keep this short here is how things are going:
> She lies about doing her work
> I have to nag everyday all day about her completing school tasks
> Resorted to making her turn her phone off while working and denying her of going to see friends on weekends, etc.
> She began doing her work in the late/early morning hours while Facebooking and texting.
> She appears to have no interests and feels hopeless and admits she has no self esteem.
> Literally she texts non stop, during movies, eating out together, EVERYTHING she does she only takes seconds of breaks inbetween. She barely can listen or hold a face to face conversation cause of this.
>
> I had a talk with her and she just has no interest and wants to drop out but she is not old enough. So, I just feel so confused, here I am learning to unschool and learning peaceful parenting with my kids but doing the complete opposite with my sister. I feel like she is too old to begin un-schooling since I am in my learning stages and am only applying tidbits of knowledge at this point. I am currently reading the Sandra Dodd Big book of unschooling and she basically even says at this age it is too late if you learning at a slow pace.
>
> Angel, has now come to realize she has to actually do more work than she did in school. In school, she just went and did the bare min., I feel like I just cant force her. nor do I want to, into completing her work. It is taking a lot out of me, naturally. But I cant just let her drop out of school now or my mom will have to deal with the consequences.
>
> She just doesnt appear to have any interests. She is so full of 'I cants' and 'NOs' about everything. I feel like she is just screaming for attention but I dont know how to give it to her when she is so resistant of everything.
>
> I really feel like a hypocrite but not sure how to handle a teenager that was raised the way she was and force her to do exactly what I do not agree with.
>
> I live in Nevada and I dont know the laws really yet for high school homeschoolers.
>
> I may be able to convince my mom to let me get her off this virtual school if I cant successfully report what they need to hear but something about this makes me nervous since I have to answer to my mom and husband about her 'success' ahhh I am sorry my post is not very focused. Right now I am not very focused and confused. Has anyone been through a similar situation? Any ideas or other schooling options that she may actually want to do? Anyone know the laws here in NV?
>
> Thanks for listening to my rant.
> -Christina
>
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
<<<<I'm not sure what this means about your position as administrator of your
sister's homeschooling curriculum. But it may be worth your looking into. >>>>
This clearly means that you cannot homeschool your sister at all unless you are
her leagal guardian. Is that the case?
Why did you take that upon you?
Alex Polikowsky
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
sister's homeschooling curriculum. But it may be worth your looking into. >>>>
This clearly means that you cannot homeschool your sister at all unless you are
her leagal guardian. Is that the case?
Why did you take that upon you?
Alex Polikowsky
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
aldq75
It doesn't sound like Christina planned to homeschool her sister, but the virtual school isn't working and she's looking for options.
Technically in Nevada, the parents can direct the education while employing a tutor to do the actual instruction. It would be possible for Christina to "tutor" her sister if everyone is in agreement.
Andrea Q
Technically in Nevada, the parents can direct the education while employing a tutor to do the actual instruction. It would be possible for Christina to "tutor" her sister if everyone is in agreement.
Andrea Q
--- In [email protected], BRIAN POLIKOWSKY <polykowholsteins@...> wrote:
>
>
> <<<<I'm not sure what this means about your position as administrator of your
> sister's homeschooling curriculum. But it may be worth your looking into. >>>>
>
> This clearly means that you cannot homeschool your sister at all unless you are
> her leagal guardian. Is that the case?
> Why did you take that upon you?
>
>
>
> Alex Polikowsky
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
naturalmommyx3
> Why are you homeschooling your sister while unschooling your own children? Did you offer in a moment of hopefulness that you could make your sister's struggles easier?###########
My sister came here to get out of public school. She was being teased and ridiculed about being a 'slut'. My mom is single and lives with a friend and is struggling financially. This 'friend' of hers would not allow her to live there if she was being homeschooled. And actually it is a 'virtual' school which is basically NV school but through a computer.########
>Did your sister want to leave school and come and live with you to homeschool?###########
Yea she wanted to come her and do this virtual school. It was her choice but she even said in her words that she didnt think she would have to actually do this much work. At least with regular school she could fake it and just get through the day without having to really do much.
###################
>Can you produce a list of activities and exciting things to do that get all of you out of the house and exploring more? Can you help your sister to achieve her need for social time with her friends more? Facebook is an amazing tool, texting and being able to keep in touch with friends may help if she's moved away from where they live. Or is less able to see them because of the constraints of her life with you. Can you help her to enjoy what she likes to do more instead ofworking so hard to implement the educational system that you are working to move away from?<
################
She is on facebook & texting from morning till morning, literally.
She is 14 and sexually active as well, which makes me nervous. She has 3 boyfriends that she sneaks around on. She is obviously starving for a that male attention she has never gotten. She has a webcam and I overheard a conversation about getting naked in front of the camera.
She sees friends more, since I am more willing to drive her to see her friends and my mom was not able to do that.
##################
Schuyler
Your sister sounds like she's terribly unhappy and has been for a long, long
time. She sounds precocious and I tend to think of precociousness, particularly
sexual precociousness, as being a product of a very difficult life. There are
some interesting articles on predictors of early age at sexual maturity in
girls. One of the big predictive factors is a real sense that their lives are
short. I'm guessing that your sister hasn't had a happy and engaged life up to
now. I'm guessing that she's living it up now 'cause she's not too sure of what
tomorrow might bring.
I don't know if it is possible to make her feel better. I don't know if it is
possible to move her life trajectory from being a sexually active 14 year old to
being a somewhat more risk averse 15 year old or 16 year old. I am pretty sure
that the way to do it, if there is one, is by being more present, more engaged,
more generous, more kind, more patient with her. I am pretty sure that riding
her to get her homework done isn't going to work.
It doesn't sound like your mom feels she has many options. It may be possible,
if you want to, to present the idea of deschooling your sister to your mom. Talk
about how she needs time not feeling pressured to get to a point where she may
be more interested in the world of learning. I believe the standard time table
is a month for every year in school. So at 14 that would be 9 months without any
educational expectations or goals.
I was thinking of what a 14 year old who was interested in boys might like to
do. At 14 I was still a bit boy shy. But maybe she'd like to go get makeup, or
have a family pedicure, or watch some of the movies that Sandra has on the page
about deschooling that I linked. Or watch different movies. Maybe you can pamper
her and coddle her as she may never have really experienced before.
I don't know if it will make a difference. I don't know if with a 4, 3, and 1
year old in your home who also need your attention you will be able to lavish
the attention on your sister that may make a difference. Maybe you can think of
ways that you all can do stuff together. If you free up your sister's time by
letting go of her school requirements you may be better able to do more things
together. I don't think it will be easy, but it has a better chance than the
path she has been on for making her life happier.
Schuyler
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
time. She sounds precocious and I tend to think of precociousness, particularly
sexual precociousness, as being a product of a very difficult life. There are
some interesting articles on predictors of early age at sexual maturity in
girls. One of the big predictive factors is a real sense that their lives are
short. I'm guessing that your sister hasn't had a happy and engaged life up to
now. I'm guessing that she's living it up now 'cause she's not too sure of what
tomorrow might bring.
I don't know if it is possible to make her feel better. I don't know if it is
possible to move her life trajectory from being a sexually active 14 year old to
being a somewhat more risk averse 15 year old or 16 year old. I am pretty sure
that the way to do it, if there is one, is by being more present, more engaged,
more generous, more kind, more patient with her. I am pretty sure that riding
her to get her homework done isn't going to work.
It doesn't sound like your mom feels she has many options. It may be possible,
if you want to, to present the idea of deschooling your sister to your mom. Talk
about how she needs time not feeling pressured to get to a point where she may
be more interested in the world of learning. I believe the standard time table
is a month for every year in school. So at 14 that would be 9 months without any
educational expectations or goals.
I was thinking of what a 14 year old who was interested in boys might like to
do. At 14 I was still a bit boy shy. But maybe she'd like to go get makeup, or
have a family pedicure, or watch some of the movies that Sandra has on the page
about deschooling that I linked. Or watch different movies. Maybe you can pamper
her and coddle her as she may never have really experienced before.
I don't know if it will make a difference. I don't know if with a 4, 3, and 1
year old in your home who also need your attention you will be able to lavish
the attention on your sister that may make a difference. Maybe you can think of
ways that you all can do stuff together. If you free up your sister's time by
letting go of her school requirements you may be better able to do more things
together. I don't think it will be easy, but it has a better chance than the
path she has been on for making her life happier.
Schuyler
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Scott & Marygrace Sorensen
What about the Teenage Liberation Handbook?
_,_._,___
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
_,_._,___
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
naturalmommyx3
> Your sister sounds like she's terribly unhappy and has been for a long, long time. She sounds precocious and I tend to think of precociousness, particularly sexual precociousness, as being a product of a very difficult life. There are some interesting articles on predictors of early age at sexual maturity in girls. One of the big predictive factors is a real sense that their lives are short. <##################
I think you hit the nail on the head here. It certainly brought tears to my eyes. It has not been easy. My mother was an abused child growing up and kicked out at age 15. She has been carrying that baggage around for a long time. She is depressed, very dependent and scared of the world around here. This is what my sis has been growing up with. My sisters father has never been around, she has prob seen him a whole month out of her life. She has told me she plans to die of a morphine OD when she is 15. She feels she has no purpose and nothing does for that matter. Yet she was telling me how upset she was that her friend was smoking pot after she asked him to stop. I know she doesnt really want that but feels helpless maybe.
##################
>>>>if you want to, to present the idea of deschooling your sister to your mom. Talk about how she needs time not feeling pressured to get to a point where she may be more interested in the world of learning. I believe the standard time table is a month for every year in school. So at 14 that would be 9 months without any educational expectations or goals. >>>>>>##################
How does one go about taking 9 months off and not getting into 'trouble' with the school police? This is my moms biggest fear but if I can convince her there is no threat then she may let go and trust me a bit more.
##################
>>>At 14 I was still a bit boy shy. But maybe she'd like to go get makeup, or have a family pedicure, or watch some of the movies that Sandra has on the page about deschooling that I linked. Or watch different movies. Maybe you can pamper her and coddle her as she may never have really experienced before. >>>>>>>>>>#######################
Since she has been here I have colored her hair, took her for makeup, had movie time (even though she is texting the whole time) but I feel myself withdrawing a bit on that when she lies and acts helpless when she is asked to clean her bathroom and bedroom. She likes to play dumb a lot so ppl do things for her. She is far from dumb or incapable. She also starts to act entitled or something when I give and do for her so much. She gets this attitude when I actually have to say no due to financial reasons or the fact that I have 3 LOs. This makes me angry. I know that is my issue but I guess I dont understand the whole dynamic of what is really going on. Living here, at least at this point in time requires her to keep her shared bathroom clean and to chip in with the house. This was my husbands 'prerequisite' for her coming here. He still thinks life is all about structure and discipline (Working on this, just got "Raising our children, Raising Ourselves.). Boy do I have my hands full. I love my sister like she is my own child. When she was born I was 16 and to me, then, I really felt like she was and worked 3 jobs to help my mom. It has been a struggle for the past 14 years to not be her mom and be her sister but with the age gap, my own issues and my love for her, it is really hard to know my place. And of course everyone is loaded with opinions on this idea, none of which I fully agree with at this point.
############################
Schuyler
>>How does one go about taking 9 months off and not getting into 'trouble' with==========================================
>>the school police? This is my moms biggest fear but if I can convince her there
>>is no threat then she may let go and trust me a bit more.<<
It looks as though Nevada doesn't have school police. You need to take that up
with someone local to Nevada. You could look here:
http://sandradodd.com/world#us. Or the link I sent in my first response will
probably have someone you could contact to get the details of what Nevada
requires from homeschool families. If you are intending to homeschool your own
children it won't hurt for you to make local connections, anyhow. It may also
help reassure your mom if you know the laws of your state well enough to present
them to her and anyone outside of your family questioning why your sister isn't
in school.
===========================================
>>Since she has been here I have colored her hair, took her for makeup, had movie=================================
>>time (even though she is texting the whole time) but I feel myself withdrawing
>>a bit on that when she lies and acts helpless when she is asked to clean her
>>bathroom and bedroom. She likes to play dumb a lot so ppl do things for her.
>>She is far from dumb or incapable. She also starts to act entitled or something
>>when I give and do for her so much. She gets this attitude when I actually have
>>to say no due to financial reasons or the fact that I have 3 LOs. This makes me
>>angry. I know that is my issue but I guess I dont understand the whole dynamic
>>of what is really going on. Living here, at least at this point in time
>>requires her to keep her shared bathroom clean and to chip in with the house.
>><<
She's only been with you a month. She's a very needy girl from what you've
written. It will take a long time for her bucket to be full, or even look like
there's much in it. It may help if you imagine how you would have felt at 14 to
have someone care for you like you are offering to care for your sister. It may
help for you to think about how it makes you feel to be kind to her instead of
hoping that she will be grateful in that moment. She may never really appreciate
what you are doing for her. She may never be able to heal from what has come
before. She may though.
You could help her to clean the bathroom. You could offer to do it with her, ask
her to come and help. You could get everyone in the bathroom and make it a
bathroom cleaning party! You could make it a very easy space for your sister to
cope with, or for you to clean if need be. The fewer things there are to fight
about her being in your home the easier it will be for each of you living there.
Tell your husband how much it means to you that he is letting her live with you.
Thank him. Tell him stories of the good things that happen during the day with
her. Find the moments when she is kind or generous with anyone and big it up in
your mind. The bigger and the brighter you can feel about her the easier it will
be for you to be kind to her. And maybe it will help your husband to see how
much his generosity is helping his sister-in-law and you.
Schuyler
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Schuyler
Looking through the web page (http://nevadahomeschoolnetwork.com/laws/) I
previously linked I found this about the letter of intent:
"The parent of a child who is being homeschooled shall prepare an educational
plan of instruction for the child in the subject areas of English, including
reading, composition and writing, mathematics, science and social studies,
including history, geography, economics and government, as appropriate for the
age and level of skill of the child as determined by the parent. The
educational plan must be included in the notice of intent to homeschool filed
pursuant to this section. If the educational plan contains the requirements of
this section, the educational plan must not be used in any manner as a basis
for denial of a notice of intent to homeschool that is otherwise complete. The
parent must be prepared to present the educational plan of instruction and
proof of the identity of the child to a court of law if required by the court.
This subsection does not require a parent to ensure that each subject area is
taught each year that the child is homeschooled."
It states that"[t]his subsection does not require a parent to ensure that each
subject area is taught each year that the child is homeschooled."
The website is a good place to explore for information. I wanted to add this
site for you, though. http://sandradodd.com/unschoolingcurriculum.html is and
has links to a curriculum with unschooling as its unstated method. Looking at
that may help you to see how an education can occur without having to be through
a correspondence school, and how that may apply to your sister's situation.
But, and I can't say this enough, get in touch with people in Nevada and find
out the practicalities of deschooling within the law. I live in the UK. I've got
nothing but what I can find on the internet for you.
Schuyler
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
previously linked I found this about the letter of intent:
"The parent of a child who is being homeschooled shall prepare an educational
plan of instruction for the child in the subject areas of English, including
reading, composition and writing, mathematics, science and social studies,
including history, geography, economics and government, as appropriate for the
age and level of skill of the child as determined by the parent. The
educational plan must be included in the notice of intent to homeschool filed
pursuant to this section. If the educational plan contains the requirements of
this section, the educational plan must not be used in any manner as a basis
for denial of a notice of intent to homeschool that is otherwise complete. The
parent must be prepared to present the educational plan of instruction and
proof of the identity of the child to a court of law if required by the court.
This subsection does not require a parent to ensure that each subject area is
taught each year that the child is homeschooled."
It states that"[t]his subsection does not require a parent to ensure that each
subject area is taught each year that the child is homeschooled."
The website is a good place to explore for information. I wanted to add this
site for you, though. http://sandradodd.com/unschoolingcurriculum.html is and
has links to a curriculum with unschooling as its unstated method. Looking at
that may help you to see how an education can occur without having to be through
a correspondence school, and how that may apply to your sister's situation.
But, and I can't say this enough, get in touch with people in Nevada and find
out the practicalities of deschooling within the law. I live in the UK. I've got
nothing but what I can find on the internet for you.
Schuyler
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
I myself have a 14 year old. We just recently started unschooling. We adopted her 3 years ago at the age of 11. She bounced around in public school. She came to us and went to school for 1 and 1/2 years. We then started doing school at home. Didn't see things any different then her being in school. So now we have moved into unschooling. She is a sweet kid, but not very in tune with her needs. She has yet to find something she really wants to do. Which i feel keeps her more immature for her age. She tends to act more like a 4-6 year old on most days. But since starting unschooling she has been able to let go of expectations. She is starting to explore things with my help. It is a start.
Leading me to this. 14 is not too young. Is 14 to early to start exploring life? That is a matter of opinion. When we adopted our kids we set our minds to providing these children a home and family. We agreed that if working at McDonalds was their best. Then that was better then what they had. If you look at your sisters future what do you see right now? Probably a pregnant drop out. What is one step up from that. A pregnant graduate. Or perhaps a non pregnant drop out. Set your own goals for your sister one step up from where you see her now. Then you can feel like you are making a difference in her life and also not expect so much out of her.
I also have a 14 year old brother who I also helped out with a lot when he was a baby. I was 15 when he was born. My mom was a single mom. Struggling to pay bills. I was a big part of his life. Still am. My mother also looks to me for advice for him. He is a super smart kid and wont do his schoolwork (public school for him) and fails because he wont turn in homework or do classwork. She recently got a boyfriend who had higher expectations making things difficult. I felt so bad for him and was hurting to see him struggling with everything. But you have to think of what the child is going through. Thats a lot of change. Same for your sister. Sounds like she has a lot going on in her life. My advice to my mother was again to lower the expectations. D is passing. So praise D schoolwork. becauase she just wants him to pass at this point. So she started doing this and since then the relationship with the boyfriend has started to grow and his grades have actually come up.
We can't always expect doctors or lawyers. Not saying that you are. Sometimes we need to focus on change. One step at a time. It hurts to see our loved ones on a path that we think is failing. But again it's not our path to take. You don't know what they are learning on that path at that moment. A different way is not a wrong way. It's just a different way. Try not to focus on fixing your sister as much as showing her you care. At 14 and being a girl she may not show appreciation but it will still leave a lasting impression within her.
Leading me to this. 14 is not too young. Is 14 to early to start exploring life? That is a matter of opinion. When we adopted our kids we set our minds to providing these children a home and family. We agreed that if working at McDonalds was their best. Then that was better then what they had. If you look at your sisters future what do you see right now? Probably a pregnant drop out. What is one step up from that. A pregnant graduate. Or perhaps a non pregnant drop out. Set your own goals for your sister one step up from where you see her now. Then you can feel like you are making a difference in her life and also not expect so much out of her.
I also have a 14 year old brother who I also helped out with a lot when he was a baby. I was 15 when he was born. My mom was a single mom. Struggling to pay bills. I was a big part of his life. Still am. My mother also looks to me for advice for him. He is a super smart kid and wont do his schoolwork (public school for him) and fails because he wont turn in homework or do classwork. She recently got a boyfriend who had higher expectations making things difficult. I felt so bad for him and was hurting to see him struggling with everything. But you have to think of what the child is going through. Thats a lot of change. Same for your sister. Sounds like she has a lot going on in her life. My advice to my mother was again to lower the expectations. D is passing. So praise D schoolwork. becauase she just wants him to pass at this point. So she started doing this and since then the relationship with the boyfriend has started to grow and his grades have actually come up.
We can't always expect doctors or lawyers. Not saying that you are. Sometimes we need to focus on change. One step at a time. It hurts to see our loved ones on a path that we think is failing. But again it's not our path to take. You don't know what they are learning on that path at that moment. A different way is not a wrong way. It's just a different way. Try not to focus on fixing your sister as much as showing her you care. At 14 and being a girl she may not show appreciation but it will still leave a lasting impression within her.
lylaw
this is a really critical situation – or could be. this 14 year old has expressed her intention to *die* and her plan/method/timing for doing so. in my opinion, and experience *all* concerns about school, graduation, cleaning bathrooms, contributing in any way, ALL of it – needs to take a HUGE backseat to this child’s mental and emotional health. she needs a TON of love and support, nurturing, acceptance, wonderful, cozy, sweet experiences, and possibly a great therapist and/or a few other adult women who can be friends and mentors to her, if at all possible. I’d also recommend, as someone else did, the “teenage liberation handbook” and “college without high school” for the older sister, and the younger one, if she will read them
also, depending where you live, getting her involved with unschooling teens and their families might be the best route toward showing her a different possibility for her life. seeing the freedom, connection, and trust amongst and between unschoolers, each other, and their families, was a BIG eye opener for my daughter when she first started unschooling, at 13. it paved the way for tremendous internal transformation.
lyla
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
also, depending where you live, getting her involved with unschooling teens and their families might be the best route toward showing her a different possibility for her life. seeing the freedom, connection, and trust amongst and between unschoolers, each other, and their families, was a BIG eye opener for my daughter when she first started unschooling, at 13. it paved the way for tremendous internal transformation.
lyla
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
plaidpanties666
"naturalmommyx3" <naturalmommyx2@...> wrote:
Step back from those ideas and instead see her as needing time to be a little girl. She needs time and space to feel safe and taken care of.
My stepson went to live with his bio mom for a few years and came back to my house when he was 13. It was two years before he did any cleaning on his own - he needed That Much time to recover from living in a dysfunctional household and he'd only been there a few years.
Don't ask your sister to clean anything. Ask her if she wants you to clean her bedroom and bathroom - does she share those with anyone? If not, then let them go. If she does share them, ask her to let you know when its a good time to clean so you don't diarray any kind of "system" she might have (Mo has a system to her chaos... I can't figure it out, but it drives her crazy when I clean up her stuff).
Be gentle with her. When you see "attitude" understand that as hurt feelings and disappointment that she doesn't feel safe expressing to you yet. Its Okay for her to feel hurt and disappointed - that's not about you, that's about being a teenager and having a wide-sky view of the world that doesn't always line up with reality. She wants the world to be soooooo much better than it is. So respond to that youthful purity of heart and say "I wish I could" or "lets make a wish list" or "I'm sorry" and commiserate with her sincerely.
Depends on the local laws - do some research on what you would need to report and to whom if you were doing the homeschooling. Look into guardianship, maybe, or emancipated minor status. If that's going to cause difficulties (and yes, I know what kind of "difficulities" dysfunctional families bring, the state is nothing compared to a freaking out bio mom) research things like umbrella schools, since some of those are unschooling-friendly. Read here:
http://sandradodd.com/unschoolingcurriculum.html
for ideas as to how to frame life in educationalese.
---Meredith
>I feel myself withdrawing a bit on that when she lies and acts helpless when she is asked to clean her bathroom and bedroom. She likes to play dumb a lot so ppl do things for her.*****************
Step back from those ideas and instead see her as needing time to be a little girl. She needs time and space to feel safe and taken care of.
My stepson went to live with his bio mom for a few years and came back to my house when he was 13. It was two years before he did any cleaning on his own - he needed That Much time to recover from living in a dysfunctional household and he'd only been there a few years.
Don't ask your sister to clean anything. Ask her if she wants you to clean her bedroom and bathroom - does she share those with anyone? If not, then let them go. If she does share them, ask her to let you know when its a good time to clean so you don't diarray any kind of "system" she might have (Mo has a system to her chaos... I can't figure it out, but it drives her crazy when I clean up her stuff).
>> She gets this attitude when I actually have to say no due to financial reasons or the fact that I have 3 LOs. This makes me angry.********************
Be gentle with her. When you see "attitude" understand that as hurt feelings and disappointment that she doesn't feel safe expressing to you yet. Its Okay for her to feel hurt and disappointed - that's not about you, that's about being a teenager and having a wide-sky view of the world that doesn't always line up with reality. She wants the world to be soooooo much better than it is. So respond to that youthful purity of heart and say "I wish I could" or "lets make a wish list" or "I'm sorry" and commiserate with her sincerely.
> How does one go about taking 9 months off and not getting into 'trouble' with the school police? This is my moms biggest fear but if I can convince her there is no threat then she may let go and trust me a bit more.******************
Depends on the local laws - do some research on what you would need to report and to whom if you were doing the homeschooling. Look into guardianship, maybe, or emancipated minor status. If that's going to cause difficulties (and yes, I know what kind of "difficulities" dysfunctional families bring, the state is nothing compared to a freaking out bio mom) research things like umbrella schools, since some of those are unschooling-friendly. Read here:
http://sandradodd.com/unschoolingcurriculum.html
for ideas as to how to frame life in educationalese.
---Meredith
Joyce Fetteroll
Also get The Parent/Teen Breakthrough: The Relationship Approach by
Mira Kirshenbaum
http://tinyurl.com/23rhfms
It's like the bible of parenting teens.
It will help you let go of wanting her to be other than who she's able
to be right now.
To sum up the message of the book -- but do get the book! -- Don't do
anything that gets in the way of building a better relationship.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Mira Kirshenbaum
http://tinyurl.com/23rhfms
It's like the bible of parenting teens.
It will help you let go of wanting her to be other than who she's able
to be right now.
To sum up the message of the book -- but do get the book! -- Don't do
anything that gets in the way of building a better relationship.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lyla Wolfenstein
Yes! To that book! I knew I was forgetting to mention one!
Lyla
-- Sent from my Palm Pixi
Lyla
-- Sent from my Palm Pixi
On Feb 21, 2011 1:29 PM, Joyce Fetteroll <jfetteroll@...> wrote:
Also get The Parent/Teen Breakthrough: The Relationship Approach by
Mira Kirshenbaum
http://tinyurl.com/23rhfms
It's like the bible of parenting teens.
It will help you let go of wanting her to be other than who she's able
to be right now.
To sum up the message of the book -- but do get the book! -- Don't do
anything that gets in the way of building a better relationship.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
Boy, this is about so much more than unschooling. Is therapy an option? Family therapy of some kind that could help all of you sort some of this out? In all your spare time. :)
Nance
Nance
--- In [email protected], "naturalmommyx3" <naturalmommyx2@...> wrote:
>
> > Your sister sounds like she's terribly unhappy and has been for a long, long time. She sounds precocious and I tend to think of precociousness, particularly sexual precociousness, as being a product of a very difficult life. There are some interesting articles on predictors of early age at sexual maturity in girls. One of the big predictive factors is a real sense that their lives are short. <
>
> ##################
> I think you hit the nail on the head here. It certainly brought tears to my eyes. It has not been easy. My mother was an abused child growing up and kicked out at age 15. She has been carrying that baggage around for a long time. She is depressed, very dependent and scared of the world around here. This is what my sis has been growing up with. My sisters father has never been around, she has prob seen him a whole month out of her life. She has told me she plans to die of a morphine OD when she is 15. She feels she has no purpose and nothing does for that matter. Yet she was telling me how upset she was that her friend was smoking pot after she asked him to stop. I know she doesnt really want that but feels helpless maybe.
> ##################
>
> >>>>if you want to, to present the idea of deschooling your sister to your mom. Talk about how she needs time not feeling pressured to get to a point where she may be more interested in the world of learning. I believe the standard time table is a month for every year in school. So at 14 that would be 9 months without any educational expectations or goals. >>>>>>
>
> ##################
> How does one go about taking 9 months off and not getting into 'trouble' with the school police? This is my moms biggest fear but if I can convince her there is no threat then she may let go and trust me a bit more.
> ##################
> >>>At 14 I was still a bit boy shy. But maybe she'd like to go get makeup, or have a family pedicure, or watch some of the movies that Sandra has on the page about deschooling that I linked. Or watch different movies. Maybe you can pamper her and coddle her as she may never have really experienced before. >>>>>>>>>>
> #######################
> Since she has been here I have colored her hair, took her for makeup, had movie time (even though she is texting the whole time) but I feel myself withdrawing a bit on that when she lies and acts helpless when she is asked to clean her bathroom and bedroom. She likes to play dumb a lot so ppl do things for her. She is far from dumb or incapable. She also starts to act entitled or something when I give and do for her so much. She gets this attitude when I actually have to say no due to financial reasons or the fact that I have 3 LOs. This makes me angry. I know that is my issue but I guess I dont understand the whole dynamic of what is really going on. Living here, at least at this point in time requires her to keep her shared bathroom clean and to chip in with the house. This was my husbands 'prerequisite' for her coming here. He still thinks life is all about structure and discipline (Working on this, just got "Raising our children, Raising Ourselves.). Boy do I have my hands full. I love my sister like she is my own child. When she was born I was 16 and to me, then, I really felt like she was and worked 3 jobs to help my mom. It has been a struggle for the past 14 years to not be her mom and be her sister but with the age gap, my own issues and my love for her, it is really hard to know my place. And of course everyone is loaded with opinions on this idea, none of which I fully agree with at this point.
> ############################
>
naturalmommyx3
First I would like to thank everyone for all the help I got on this, on and off list. It has really helped me see what is important here.
After forwarding my mom some of the emails and replies I received from the ppl on this list, my mom has agreed to allow her out of the virtual school :) She also sounds on board with unschooling although we need to talk a little more about it as I dont think she fully understands it. My only worry now is that I have no idea how long my sister is going to be here, living with me. I am not going to get too far out into the future right now and just focus on her creating and allowing her space/time to heal, the best I can. I think a part of me was/is fearing my husbands voice saying she needs structure, she needs to follow through on her decision, she needs to learn she cant just do whatever she wants, she needs responsibility, etc etc. Which btw is just self talk in my own head that I have created. Not that he wont say any of that but we will work through his opinions. He agreed to read raising our children, raising ourselves and the Sandra Dodd unschooling book, which BTW I am currently loving :)
Now to talk to my husband....not sure how that is going to go. Much love and appreciation to all of you :D
Thanks again!
Christina
After forwarding my mom some of the emails and replies I received from the ppl on this list, my mom has agreed to allow her out of the virtual school :) She also sounds on board with unschooling although we need to talk a little more about it as I dont think she fully understands it. My only worry now is that I have no idea how long my sister is going to be here, living with me. I am not going to get too far out into the future right now and just focus on her creating and allowing her space/time to heal, the best I can. I think a part of me was/is fearing my husbands voice saying she needs structure, she needs to follow through on her decision, she needs to learn she cant just do whatever she wants, she needs responsibility, etc etc. Which btw is just self talk in my own head that I have created. Not that he wont say any of that but we will work through his opinions. He agreed to read raising our children, raising ourselves and the Sandra Dodd unschooling book, which BTW I am currently loving :)
Now to talk to my husband....not sure how that is going to go. Much love and appreciation to all of you :D
Thanks again!
Christina