Food Issues; Waste
[email protected]
I am at my wits end with this issue. I have four children. I have followed
unschooling principles with all of them with food. If they ask for
something I give it to them. They have unlimited access to anything in the house
and as we have all learned kids with no restrictions choose healthful foods
far more often than unhealthy ones. However I have been having problems with
my four year old (he is #3 in birth order) for more than a year and it is
really testing our relationship. I need feedback and ideas.
The problem I am having is that my four year old is asking for all kinds of
things ranging from candy to cereal to burritos or spaghetti, pop,
chocolate milk, bananas, sandwiches etc, etc. And without fail once you prepare
the item for him he looks at it and says "I do not want that." I take it back
and tell him to please let me know what he wants when he decides. However
I have building anger. I can not tolerate waste, it makes me feel very
upset but eating his food leftovers is also making me upset. I do not mind
eating all of his fruits and vegetables but I have no interest in most of his
waste. I offer it to all the other children and sometimes they want it and
sometimes they do not. I hate throwing away food but a bowl of cereal
soaking in milk is not going to be useful to anyone after ten minutes.
What are your thoughts? What is his motivation for asking for things? Does
he intend to eat them when he requests it or is he just testing me to see
if I will prepare it for him? I really have no idea!
Help!
**************Great deals on Dell’s most popular laptops – Starting at
$479
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220029082x1201385915/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B213969145%3B35701480%3Bh)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
unschooling principles with all of them with food. If they ask for
something I give it to them. They have unlimited access to anything in the house
and as we have all learned kids with no restrictions choose healthful foods
far more often than unhealthy ones. However I have been having problems with
my four year old (he is #3 in birth order) for more than a year and it is
really testing our relationship. I need feedback and ideas.
The problem I am having is that my four year old is asking for all kinds of
things ranging from candy to cereal to burritos or spaghetti, pop,
chocolate milk, bananas, sandwiches etc, etc. And without fail once you prepare
the item for him he looks at it and says "I do not want that." I take it back
and tell him to please let me know what he wants when he decides. However
I have building anger. I can not tolerate waste, it makes me feel very
upset but eating his food leftovers is also making me upset. I do not mind
eating all of his fruits and vegetables but I have no interest in most of his
waste. I offer it to all the other children and sometimes they want it and
sometimes they do not. I hate throwing away food but a bowl of cereal
soaking in milk is not going to be useful to anyone after ten minutes.
What are your thoughts? What is his motivation for asking for things? Does
he intend to eat them when he requests it or is he just testing me to see
if I will prepare it for him? I really have no idea!
Help!
**************Great deals on Dell’s most popular laptops – Starting at
$479
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220029082x1201385915/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B213969145%3B35701480%3Bh)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
carenkh
Is it a waste of ink when your child draws, or a waste of paper when they paint?
Can you shift seeing "food" as SOMETHING WE DO NOT WASTE, EVER to one more exciting thing for your child to explore? (Even if he's not actively exploring it?)
This was a hurdle for me, too - "not wasting food" having basically been beaten into me as a child. Once I was able to shift my views on it, I certainly experienced a lot more peace. I don't mind at all draining the milk out of a bowl of cereal, and throwing the rest out back. This was a big shift for me, btw. It helped me to not see food as in some separate category - it was just further material in our lives.
My youngest used to "waste" drinks - he'd pour these HUGE glasses of whatever, then mostly leave them around. Or he'd HAVE to get the bottle of juice while we were out, then he'd take maybe one drink from it. As he's grown, he's grown out of doing that so much. He can better gauge exactly what he wants, and how much... but it was only by going through the phase of "too much" that he was able to determine that for himself.
You may not ever know the reason he's asking for things, then saying "no". Can you trust there IS a reason, and it's a valid reason for him?
Do you have a compost heap? That might help to feel like it's not "going to waste" - it's going to help feed other plants!
peace,
Caren
Can you shift seeing "food" as SOMETHING WE DO NOT WASTE, EVER to one more exciting thing for your child to explore? (Even if he's not actively exploring it?)
This was a hurdle for me, too - "not wasting food" having basically been beaten into me as a child. Once I was able to shift my views on it, I certainly experienced a lot more peace. I don't mind at all draining the milk out of a bowl of cereal, and throwing the rest out back. This was a big shift for me, btw. It helped me to not see food as in some separate category - it was just further material in our lives.
My youngest used to "waste" drinks - he'd pour these HUGE glasses of whatever, then mostly leave them around. Or he'd HAVE to get the bottle of juice while we were out, then he'd take maybe one drink from it. As he's grown, he's grown out of doing that so much. He can better gauge exactly what he wants, and how much... but it was only by going through the phase of "too much" that he was able to determine that for himself.
You may not ever know the reason he's asking for things, then saying "no". Can you trust there IS a reason, and it's a valid reason for him?
Do you have a compost heap? That might help to feel like it's not "going to waste" - it's going to help feed other plants!
peace,
Caren
Debra Rossing
It could be that he wants your attention focused on him specifically
(since there's four of them and only one of you, unless you've got a
couple clones stashed your focus is always going to be divided). If
there is any way to get him a chunk of your time focused on him (whether
it's 20 minutes after dinner when there's another adult to watch the
littlest one and the olders can manage for a short time themselves or
early in the morning before the baby wakes or whatever), that may go a
long way toward addressing this aspect, if attention is his goal moreso
than the food itself.
It could also be that he has a mental image of 'burrito' that doesn't
match what shows up on the plate when you hear 'burrito' - asking him to
direct you step by step can be helpful..."do you want cheese? White
cheddar or orange cheddar? Sliced or shredded? Melted or not melted?..."
yes it takes time; it's a process. But, in the end, you're more likely
to have what he's asked for (if indeed he was wanting food and not
solely the focused attention) so it's less likely to end up unwanted.
There have also been times when I've asked DS (who is now approaching
11) to please get a glass of water and consider if he is really wanting
what he's asked for (particularly if it takes significant preparation
and I know he's just eaten a goodly amount not too long ago). While he's
doing that, I make sure to keep my focus on him, not go back to whatever
I was doing. That way, if attention was his goal, he's got it and if
he's still hungry, he'll get that, and if he was actually just a bit
thirsty, he's satisfied there too. (it's not uncommon even among adults
to reach for something to eat when what they're needing is hydration -
over time, DS has gotten better at identifying which is which and also
at keeping a reusable water bottle at hand to stay hydrated).
It may also be a case of being over-hungry. Y'know how when you're
really super overtired it can be hard to sleep? Same can apply to food -
once you're hungry, you want food and you'll grab any and all food...but
the first thing may not really be what you need, so you grab something
else and so on... Stopping to clarify "okay, you want a burrito. Let me
take your order, sir...would you prefer x or y? would you like m or n
with that?" and so on...Often DS and I would do a 'decision tree' type
discussion - "you're hungry. Okay. Would you like something warm or
cool? Warm. Okay. Soft or crunchy? Soft. Got it. Sweet or more
salty-ish? More salty-ish...hmm how about scrambled eggs with cheese?"
Another big issue around that age (3-5) is autonomy - being able to get
his own food as well as, perhaps, wanting to be the youngest again where
mommy provided for him and he didn't have to be a 'big boy' but got
taken care of more. It may be the asking that is part of the issue - if
there are ways that you can make things readily available (for all the
kids old enough to eat solid stuff, don't know how old the littlest is)
that might help - set a tray of assorted cut fruits and veggies on a low
but safe table (if necessary to keep the youngest from choking hazards),
include crackers, string cheese, favorite cookies, etc. That way they
can just get instead of asking every time (that would also potentially
free you up from some of the food getting stuff so you have that 20
minutes per day to spend one on one).
Just some ideas to mull
Deb R
**********************************************************************
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
the system manager.
This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by
MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses.
www.mastercam.com
**********************************************************************
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
(since there's four of them and only one of you, unless you've got a
couple clones stashed your focus is always going to be divided). If
there is any way to get him a chunk of your time focused on him (whether
it's 20 minutes after dinner when there's another adult to watch the
littlest one and the olders can manage for a short time themselves or
early in the morning before the baby wakes or whatever), that may go a
long way toward addressing this aspect, if attention is his goal moreso
than the food itself.
It could also be that he has a mental image of 'burrito' that doesn't
match what shows up on the plate when you hear 'burrito' - asking him to
direct you step by step can be helpful..."do you want cheese? White
cheddar or orange cheddar? Sliced or shredded? Melted or not melted?..."
yes it takes time; it's a process. But, in the end, you're more likely
to have what he's asked for (if indeed he was wanting food and not
solely the focused attention) so it's less likely to end up unwanted.
There have also been times when I've asked DS (who is now approaching
11) to please get a glass of water and consider if he is really wanting
what he's asked for (particularly if it takes significant preparation
and I know he's just eaten a goodly amount not too long ago). While he's
doing that, I make sure to keep my focus on him, not go back to whatever
I was doing. That way, if attention was his goal, he's got it and if
he's still hungry, he'll get that, and if he was actually just a bit
thirsty, he's satisfied there too. (it's not uncommon even among adults
to reach for something to eat when what they're needing is hydration -
over time, DS has gotten better at identifying which is which and also
at keeping a reusable water bottle at hand to stay hydrated).
It may also be a case of being over-hungry. Y'know how when you're
really super overtired it can be hard to sleep? Same can apply to food -
once you're hungry, you want food and you'll grab any and all food...but
the first thing may not really be what you need, so you grab something
else and so on... Stopping to clarify "okay, you want a burrito. Let me
take your order, sir...would you prefer x or y? would you like m or n
with that?" and so on...Often DS and I would do a 'decision tree' type
discussion - "you're hungry. Okay. Would you like something warm or
cool? Warm. Okay. Soft or crunchy? Soft. Got it. Sweet or more
salty-ish? More salty-ish...hmm how about scrambled eggs with cheese?"
Another big issue around that age (3-5) is autonomy - being able to get
his own food as well as, perhaps, wanting to be the youngest again where
mommy provided for him and he didn't have to be a 'big boy' but got
taken care of more. It may be the asking that is part of the issue - if
there are ways that you can make things readily available (for all the
kids old enough to eat solid stuff, don't know how old the littlest is)
that might help - set a tray of assorted cut fruits and veggies on a low
but safe table (if necessary to keep the youngest from choking hazards),
include crackers, string cheese, favorite cookies, etc. That way they
can just get instead of asking every time (that would also potentially
free you up from some of the food getting stuff so you have that 20
minutes per day to spend one on one).
Just some ideas to mull
Deb R
**********************************************************************
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
the system manager.
This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by
MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses.
www.mastercam.com
**********************************************************************
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Schuyler
> The problem I am having is that my four year old is asking for all kinds ofInstead of giving him one thing that he's asked for, give him a bunch of things on a plate before he asks. Prepare platters filled with things he likes and things you think he might enjoy. http://sandradodd.com/eating/monkeyplatter might give you some good ideas. Part of it might be that he doesn't know what he's hungry for and so he is suggesting things that seem appealing in theory but in practice aren't what he had in mind. It may change the dynamics if you are pro-actively offering things than if you are waiting for him to request specific things.
> things ranging from candy to cereal to burritos or spaghetti, pop,
> chocolate milk, bananas, sandwiches etc, etc. And without fail once you prepare
> the item for him he looks at it and says "I do not want that." I take it back
> and tell him to please let me know what he wants when he decides.
> And without fail once you prepareWithout fail? Every time? I'm not being picky with your words to make you feel bad, but if you can be honest about how frequently something is occuring it will help to minimize the anger you feel building over something. You also wrote "I can not tolerate waste", but clearly you have been. Not that you shouldn't be, it's good that you are letting him waste food. It is much better than making a 4 year old sit and stare at food he requested but didn't want and eat it.
> the item for him he looks at it and says "I do not want that."
Are there other things you can do to make the waste less wasteful feeling? What about a compost or can you get a wormery? I know that worms can't take everything, but they can take some things that composts can't. We have a dog and he is very happy at receiving the leavings of others. Our cats like any extra cheese. Bread can be scattered for the birds, and right now for the little moorhen in the pond next to the house.
> What is his motivation for asking for things? DoesI would assume his motivation is hunger. It could be boredom, though. I've been known to eat when I'm bored. Linnaea has too. You could try and record what else is going on when he asks for food, see if there is a pattern. You could step up your engagement with him and see if it makes a difference in how frequently he requests and then turns down food. I doubt that he is doing it to test you or try you or see what hoops you will jump if and when he asks. And if he were, which I totally don't believe he is, so what. You get to respond with love and commitment and generosity whatever the intention he has. And it helps a lot if you aren't supposing that he is working from slightly less than the best intentions. But I would honestly guess that he's hungry or thirsty or a bit uncomfortable and thinks that food will help.
> he intend to eat them when he requests it or is he just testing me to see
> if I will prepare it for him? I really have no idea!
Schuyler
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Meredith
--- In [email protected], "Debra Rossing" <debra.rossing@...> wrote:
For a long time Mo would say No to any food that required cooking if we asked before it was cooked. Once she could see and smell it, though, she often said Yes. So we learned to always make an extra portion for her.
---Meredith (Mo 7, Ray 15)
>> It could also be that he has a mental image of 'burrito' that doesn'tFor that matter, it might help to make a list of his favorite foods using pictures so he doesn't have to stop and picture what he wants and then find the word for it - that's a lot of work for a hungry little one!
> match what shows up on the plate when you hear 'burrito'
For a long time Mo would say No to any food that required cooking if we asked before it was cooked. Once she could see and smell it, though, she often said Yes. So we learned to always make an extra portion for her.
---Meredith (Mo 7, Ray 15)
Three Mommies
One thing I've learned is to give smaller portions. One of the other mommies
(we have 3 in our family) would make cereal for our guys and later in the
morning I would end up throwing away because the guys couldn't finish it and
it had gotten soggy. It drove me nuts. First I stepped back and said, "This
is my issue. It's not about her and how she does things. It's not about the
guys and what or how much they eat or don't eat. It's about my expectations
about food and how it should be used, and my issues around money and what is
wasteful." Once I got through this step. I started giving them smaller bowls
with less cereal whenever I made breakfast. "You can always have more." I'd
leave the cereal and milk on the table next to them. For the first few
times, they would have than they could eat. That was fine. After a while,
they would just fill the bowls up and eat that. Then they would go off and
play and eat more (cereal or something else) later. It also helped to
realize that my guys are grazers. They want little bits of lots of foods
available all day. If they ask for something or make something and then
don't eat it, I eat it if I want it, save it for later if it's savable, or
get rid of it if it's not. It's just a little bit of food. I also try to
make sure that I anticipate their hunger and have cooked things ready at the
times they usually want them.
Peace,
Jean Elizabeth
http://3mommies.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
(we have 3 in our family) would make cereal for our guys and later in the
morning I would end up throwing away because the guys couldn't finish it and
it had gotten soggy. It drove me nuts. First I stepped back and said, "This
is my issue. It's not about her and how she does things. It's not about the
guys and what or how much they eat or don't eat. It's about my expectations
about food and how it should be used, and my issues around money and what is
wasteful." Once I got through this step. I started giving them smaller bowls
with less cereal whenever I made breakfast. "You can always have more." I'd
leave the cereal and milk on the table next to them. For the first few
times, they would have than they could eat. That was fine. After a while,
they would just fill the bowls up and eat that. Then they would go off and
play and eat more (cereal or something else) later. It also helped to
realize that my guys are grazers. They want little bits of lots of foods
available all day. If they ask for something or make something and then
don't eat it, I eat it if I want it, save it for later if it's savable, or
get rid of it if it's not. It's just a little bit of food. I also try to
make sure that I anticipate their hunger and have cooked things ready at the
times they usually want them.
Peace,
Jean Elizabeth
http://3mommies.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Danielle Conger
HSlater351@... wrote:
the left-overs, and they would give your family eggs in return.
We had a small flock of 12 laying hens when we lived in a suburban
neighborhood, and our neighbors loved them. We were lucky not to have
covenants with regards to birds, but it would be possible to keep just 3
or 4 hens under the radar most likely.
They're also great fun for kids.
--
~~Danielle
Emily (11), Julia (10), Sam (8)
http://www.organiclearning.blogspot.com
>Could you consider getting a couple of laying hens? They absolutely love
> I hate throwing away food but a bowl of cereal
> soaking in milk is not going to be useful to anyone after ten minutes.
>
the left-overs, and they would give your family eggs in return.
We had a small flock of 12 laying hens when we lived in a suburban
neighborhood, and our neighbors loved them. We were lucky not to have
covenants with regards to birds, but it would be possible to keep just 3
or 4 hens under the radar most likely.
They're also great fun for kids.
--
~~Danielle
Emily (11), Julia (10), Sam (8)
http://www.organiclearning.blogspot.com
Debra Rossing
We're doing sort of a competition - us vs. us - to try to see how many
weeks we can go before taking out the trash. So far our record is 3
weeks. We're trying to get it to once a month. And, a big part of that
is composting anything compostable (cereals, beans and grain, veggie and
fruit bits, no fatty foods as they will get rancid and nasty smelling)
in addition to recycling and reusing (and repurposing).
Deb R
**********************************************************************
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
the system manager.
This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by
MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses.
www.mastercam.com
**********************************************************************
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
weeks we can go before taking out the trash. So far our record is 3
weeks. We're trying to get it to once a month. And, a big part of that
is composting anything compostable (cereals, beans and grain, veggie and
fruit bits, no fatty foods as they will get rancid and nasty smelling)
in addition to recycling and reusing (and repurposing).
Deb R
**********************************************************************
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
the system manager.
This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by
MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses.
www.mastercam.com
**********************************************************************
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Debra Rossing
Oh yeah portion size is important. We've found ways to make 'mini'
everything in one way or another and quick as well. For instance, some
canned solid pumpkin mixed with a bit of cinnamon/spices and spread on a
graham cracker makes an excellent sub for pumpkin pie - actual pie takes
better than an hour to make (way too long for DS to wait). Hmm maybe
that's a corollary issue to the situation - prep time. Stuff that takes
more than a minute or two might be part of the issue. Proactively
offering food as has been suggested is one possible help for that. Also,
keeping commonly used ingredients handy in their usable form (a
container of already shredded cheese, sliced veggies, etc) so that
things can be made really quickly - if the cheese is already shredded
and the beans cooked, a bean & cheese burrito can be made in the
microwave in seconds.
Deb R
**********************************************************************
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
the system manager.
This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by
MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses.
www.mastercam.com
**********************************************************************
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
everything in one way or another and quick as well. For instance, some
canned solid pumpkin mixed with a bit of cinnamon/spices and spread on a
graham cracker makes an excellent sub for pumpkin pie - actual pie takes
better than an hour to make (way too long for DS to wait). Hmm maybe
that's a corollary issue to the situation - prep time. Stuff that takes
more than a minute or two might be part of the issue. Proactively
offering food as has been suggested is one possible help for that. Also,
keeping commonly used ingredients handy in their usable form (a
container of already shredded cheese, sliced veggies, etc) so that
things can be made really quickly - if the cheese is already shredded
and the beans cooked, a bean & cheese burrito can be made in the
microwave in seconds.
Deb R
**********************************************************************
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
the system manager.
This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by
MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses.
www.mastercam.com
**********************************************************************
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]