New to Unschooling
sherrildr2000
We started homeschooling last year in Feb. We let Faith our DD, who is
9 stay up till she was ready to go to sleep. She slept till 1200pm the
next day. When the other children in the area went back to school, she
wanted to start learning as well. She and I discussed that 12 hours is
about how long she sleeps for. She wants to go to 1000am homeschooling
events that welcome unschoolers and all others. So she felt going to
bed and watching a show at 900pm would be a good idea and that getting
to sleep about 930pm. This isn't something she is being forced into so
is this okay? On fridays and sat's she goes to sleep when she wants.
DH is having a hard time with the idea of no bedtime. I'm just
confused. She and I discussed her needs and she made a decision to
attend certain events. Are we on the right path?
Sherri in NJ
9 stay up till she was ready to go to sleep. She slept till 1200pm the
next day. When the other children in the area went back to school, she
wanted to start learning as well. She and I discussed that 12 hours is
about how long she sleeps for. She wants to go to 1000am homeschooling
events that welcome unschoolers and all others. So she felt going to
bed and watching a show at 900pm would be a good idea and that getting
to sleep about 930pm. This isn't something she is being forced into so
is this okay? On fridays and sat's she goes to sleep when she wants.
DH is having a hard time with the idea of no bedtime. I'm just
confused. She and I discussed her needs and she made a decision to
attend certain events. Are we on the right path?
Sherri in NJ
k
Well yes. That is exactly how I think making choices about sleep looks in
unschooling. :)
~Katherine
unschooling. :)
~Katherine
On 9/14/08, sherrildr2000 <sherrildr@...> wrote:
>
> We started homeschooling last year in Feb. We let Faith our DD, who is
> 9 stay up till she was ready to go to sleep. She slept till 1200pm the
> next day. When the other children in the area went back to school, she
> wanted to start learning as well. She and I discussed that 12 hours is
> about how long she sleeps for. She wants to go to 1000am homeschooling
> events that welcome unschoolers and all others. So she felt going to
> bed and watching a show at 900pm would be a good idea and that getting
> to sleep about 930pm. This isn't something she is being forced into so
> is this okay? On fridays and sat's she goes to sleep when she wants.
>
> DH is having a hard time with the idea of no bedtime. I'm just
> confused. She and I discussed her needs and she made a decision to
> attend certain events. Are we on the right path?
>
> Sherri in NJ
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Camille
I have a 5yr old ds, never been to school, always been at home with either Mum or Dad and very much loved and treasured.
Im happy to take his lead in what he wants or needs to do - he is very decisive so thats not a problem, however Im not creative and so dont want him to miss out due to my lack of bringing stimulating things to his notice. Do I take him places to bring him into contact with a variety of things and see what he goes for type of thing. We live in a small town and theres not a great deal about, we do have a lovely beach, park etc that we frequent, and the shops arent grand, but does he need more than this regularly? If anyone has any ideas or advice Id love it. Thanks & Blessings, Camille
Im happy to take his lead in what he wants or needs to do - he is very decisive so thats not a problem, however Im not creative and so dont want him to miss out due to my lack of bringing stimulating things to his notice. Do I take him places to bring him into contact with a variety of things and see what he goes for type of thing. We live in a small town and theres not a great deal about, we do have a lovely beach, park etc that we frequent, and the shops arent grand, but does he need more than this regularly? If anyone has any ideas or advice Id love it. Thanks & Blessings, Camille
Joyce Fetteroll
On Jun 17, 2009, at 3:55 AM, Camille wrote:
(rather than a curriculum dictating the direction.)
Another, equally important part, is strewing their lives with ideas
and opportunities and things that might catch their interest. They
can't follow an interest if they've never been exposed to it. They
can't know they like poetry or Chinese calligraphy or puffer fish or
string games or roller skating if they've never experienced them.
Obviously we can't expose them to everything, but keeping new things
swirling through their lives will help since everything is connected
to everything :-)
This should help:
http://sandradodd.com/strewing
Read there. Read the links.
with labels are comforting. They give us an excuse not to wander
outside of them. But for you son, you need to.
Some people are lucky to have a drive behind them that makes them do
different things in new ways. But creativity can be learned. Start
doing little new things. Break out of your routine. Take a different
route somewhere. Wonder how lost items got where they did and who
might have dropped them. Try a food you've never had before. Make a
recipe you've never done before. Get in your car or on a bus and go
somewhere new. Plant something. Wear a purple scarf.
I think one of the big stumbling blocks in creativity is seeing the
creative things that others come up with and thinking you could never
have done that so you must not be creative. But of course you
couldn't have come up with someone else's creative idea. That's what
makes them creative! ;-) Yours will be uniquely your own. In fact
they may not feel creative. But they will become more and more so the
further you move from your comfortable core.
Go here too:
http://creativeeveryday.com/creative-every-day-challenge
and help yourself step out of your box.
Go together to places *to have fun* :-) *That's* your primary goal.
While you're there be aware of what he's enjoying. Let him take the
lead but you point things out that you think he might like too. Then
run more of what he enjoyed into his life and let him explore to the
depth he wants.
are making creative uses of the spaces (though they can be hard to
find, the do exist!)
Where do the things in the shops come from?
He's the one you need look at for answers.
Life doesn't need to be an amusement park for kids to learn in. In
fact that might get in the way! There would be too much going on and
not enough time for reflecting. But pointing out a new flower and
noticing how the petals are yellow in the center and purple at the
ends will be a big step away from routine.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Im happy to take his lead in what he wants or needs to do*Part* of unschooling is allowing children to follow their interests
(rather than a curriculum dictating the direction.)
Another, equally important part, is strewing their lives with ideas
and opportunities and things that might catch their interest. They
can't follow an interest if they've never been exposed to it. They
can't know they like poetry or Chinese calligraphy or puffer fish or
string games or roller skating if they've never experienced them.
Obviously we can't expose them to everything, but keeping new things
swirling through their lives will help since everything is connected
to everything :-)
This should help:
http://sandradodd.com/strewing
Read there. Read the links.
> however Im not creativeQuite often it's the parents that need the most deschooling. Boxes
>
with labels are comforting. They give us an excuse not to wander
outside of them. But for you son, you need to.
Some people are lucky to have a drive behind them that makes them do
different things in new ways. But creativity can be learned. Start
doing little new things. Break out of your routine. Take a different
route somewhere. Wonder how lost items got where they did and who
might have dropped them. Try a food you've never had before. Make a
recipe you've never done before. Get in your car or on a bus and go
somewhere new. Plant something. Wear a purple scarf.
I think one of the big stumbling blocks in creativity is seeing the
creative things that others come up with and thinking you could never
have done that so you must not be creative. But of course you
couldn't have come up with someone else's creative idea. That's what
makes them creative! ;-) Yours will be uniquely your own. In fact
they may not feel creative. But they will become more and more so the
further you move from your comfortable core.
Go here too:
http://creativeeveryday.com/creative-every-day-challenge
and help yourself step out of your box.
> Do I take him places to bring him into contact with a variety ofPartly, but with a different mind set.
> things and see what he goes for type of thing.
>
Go together to places *to have fun* :-) *That's* your primary goal.
While you're there be aware of what he's enjoying. Let him take the
lead but you point things out that you think he might like too. Then
run more of what he enjoyed into his life and let him explore to the
depth he wants.
> we do have a lovely beach, park etc that we frequent, and the shopsSee the possibilities in those beyond just going. Watch others who
> arent grand
>
are making creative uses of the spaces (though they can be hard to
find, the do exist!)
Where do the things in the shops come from?
> but does he need more than this regularly?I suspect you want us to say yes ;-) It would make it all a lot easier.
>
He's the one you need look at for answers.
Life doesn't need to be an amusement park for kids to learn in. In
fact that might get in the way! There would be too much going on and
not enough time for reflecting. But pointing out a new flower and
noticing how the petals are yellow in the center and purple at the
ends will be a big step away from routine.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
morlingfamily
Thankyou Joyce,
There is so much information there that I really needed to here. Thanks for the web addresses I will have a look. Seems currently its me thats needing to do the learning, as ds is doing his fine by himself :D
Thanks & Blessings,
¸.·´ .·-:¦:-
((¸¸.·´Camille .·´-:¦:- ~
-:¦:-¸¸.·´*
There is so much information there that I really needed to here. Thanks for the web addresses I will have a look. Seems currently its me thats needing to do the learning, as ds is doing his fine by himself :D
Thanks & Blessings,
¸.·´ .·-:¦:-
((¸¸.·´Camille .·´-:¦:- ~
-:¦:-¸¸.·´*
----- Original Message -----
From: Joyce Fetteroll
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 9:47 PM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] New to Unschooling
On Jun 17, 2009, at 3:55 AM, Camille wrote:
> Im happy to take his lead in what he wants or needs to do
*Part* of unschooling is allowing children to follow their interests
(rather than a curriculum dictating the direction.)
Another, equally important part, is strewing their lives with ideas
and opportunities and things that might catch their interest. They
can't follow an interest if they've never been exposed to it. They
can't know they like poetry or Chinese calligraphy or puffer fish or
string games or roller skating if they've never experienced them.
Obviously we can't expose them to everything, but keeping new things
swirling through their lives will help since everything is connected
to everything :-)
This should help:
http://sandradodd.com/strewing
Read there. Read the links.
> however Im not creative
>
Quite often it's the parents that need the most deschooling. Boxes
with labels are comforting. They give us an excuse not to wander
outside of them. But for you son, you need to.
Some people are lucky to have a drive behind them that makes them do
different things in new ways. But creativity can be learned. Start
doing little new things. Break out of your routine. Take a different
route somewhere. Wonder how lost items got where they did and who
might have dropped them. Try a food you've never had before. Make a
recipe you've never done before. Get in your car or on a bus and go
somewhere new. Plant something. Wear a purple scarf.
I think one of the big stumbling blocks in creativity is seeing the
creative things that others come up with and thinking you could never
have done that so you must not be creative. But of course you
couldn't have come up with someone else's creative idea. That's what
makes them creative! ;-) Yours will be uniquely your own. In fact
they may not feel creative. But they will become more and more so the
further you move from your comfortable core.
Go here too:
http://creativeeveryday.com/creative-every-day-challenge
and help yourself step out of your box.
> Do I take him places to bring him into contact with a variety of
> things and see what he goes for type of thing.
>
Partly, but with a different mind set.
Go together to places *to have fun* :-) *That's* your primary goal.
While you're there be aware of what he's enjoying. Let him take the
lead but you point things out that you think he might like too. Then
run more of what he enjoyed into his life and let him explore to the
depth he wants.
> we do have a lovely beach, park etc that we frequent, and the shops
> arent grand
>
See the possibilities in those beyond just going. Watch others who
are making creative uses of the spaces (though they can be hard to
find, the do exist!)
Where do the things in the shops come from?
> but does he need more than this regularly?
>
I suspect you want us to say yes ;-) It would make it all a lot easier.
He's the one you need look at for answers.
Life doesn't need to be an amusement park for kids to learn in. In
fact that might get in the way! There would be too much going on and
not enough time for reflecting. But pointing out a new flower and
noticing how the petals are yellow in the center and purple at the
ends will be a big step away from routine.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
rosehavencottage
I have been reading about unschooling for well over a year, but finally have my husband's approval to unschool our girls (ages 14 and 10). Of course, reading and doing are two totally different things. *smile* He wants to insure the girls are still learning, so I need to make unschooling look fabulous!
I have created a blog so I can post photos and such of what we are doing.
Any tips, suggestions, and ideas would be greatly appreciated!
Tracy
I have created a blog so I can post photos and such of what we are doing.
Any tips, suggestions, and ideas would be greatly appreciated!
Tracy
plaidpanties666
Some of these might help you "spin" what your kids are doing in ways that your dh can feel good about:
http://sandradodd.com/unschoolingcurriculum.html
And some of this may help you come up with ideas:
http://sandradodd.com/strewing
http://sandradodd.com/museum
http://sandradodd.com/shakespeare/
---Meredith
http://sandradodd.com/unschoolingcurriculum.html
And some of this may help you come up with ideas:
http://sandradodd.com/strewing
http://sandradodd.com/museum
http://sandradodd.com/shakespeare/
---Meredith
Stella Walker-Sharland
Hello everyone
We have just escaped the tyranny of learning through a school of distance
education. I have been reading about unschooling and even radical
unschooling.It seem that this type of approach is going to be a much better
fit for us.(me a grandmother and himself 10yo boy).
I am looking forward to learning from you all
Stella
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
We have just escaped the tyranny of learning through a school of distance
education. I have been reading about unschooling and even radical
unschooling.It seem that this type of approach is going to be a much better
fit for us.(me a grandmother and himself 10yo boy).
I am looking forward to learning from you all
Stella
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Brenda Hunt
I too am very new to unschooling. My son is 11 and I am an older mum (55) I am having to unschool myself too as it is a very new way of thinking from what I have always known.
I am getting very relaxed now about it, my son is thriving on it and I can't believe I left it so late to jump in. I was very unhappy with my sons schooling but allowed other peoples opinions and fears (including my ex) to make me think there was no other way.
I now know there is and with the help of groups like this we are both very happy. My ex now sees a happy child and agrees that unschooling is better for our son.
Brenda and David (11)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I am getting very relaxed now about it, my son is thriving on it and I can't believe I left it so late to jump in. I was very unhappy with my sons schooling but allowed other peoples opinions and fears (including my ex) to make me think there was no other way.
I now know there is and with the help of groups like this we are both very happy. My ex now sees a happy child and agrees that unschooling is better for our son.
Brenda and David (11)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
magicfingers_aus
> I too am very new to unschooling. My son is 11 and I am an older mum (55) I am having to unschool myself too as it is a very new way of thinking from what I have always known.I am wandering if anyone has some tips about how to begin..My boy is very rigid and does not like change,and I am struggling with the mental shift that is required.
thanks
Stella
irelandkelly10
I had a hard time with the bedtimes thing too!
Although interestingly my husband didn't as he got to spend extra time with them after his work day finished.
They do several activities of their choosing during the week, and so they do have a few nights where they go to bed earlier, but they aren't told to and it's up to them whether they go up. The only one I do gently persuade is my four year old, but he likes the stories and snuggles, and the one to one time away from his three siblings.
My main realisation is how hard unschooling is! Everyone thinks its about leaving your kids alone and kind of co-existing, but I've found that I am much more present in my children's lives, and it is me that needs the bedtime :)
Not much help i know, but at least you know you aren't alone in this adventure,
Kelly
Although interestingly my husband didn't as he got to spend extra time with them after his work day finished.
They do several activities of their choosing during the week, and so they do have a few nights where they go to bed earlier, but they aren't told to and it's up to them whether they go up. The only one I do gently persuade is my four year old, but he likes the stories and snuggles, and the one to one time away from his three siblings.
My main realisation is how hard unschooling is! Everyone thinks its about leaving your kids alone and kind of co-existing, but I've found that I am much more present in my children's lives, and it is me that needs the bedtime :)
Not much help i know, but at least you know you aren't alone in this adventure,
Kelly
--- In unschoolingbasics@yahoogroI hadups.com, "sherrildr2000" <sherrildr@...> wrote:
>
> We started homeschooling last year in Feb. We let Faith our DD, who is
> 9 stay up till she was ready to go to sleep. She slept till 1200pm the
> next day. When the other children in the area went back to school, she
> wanted to start learning as well. She and I discussed that 12 hours is
> about how long she sleeps for. She wants to go to 1000am homeschooling
> events that welcome unschoolers and all others. So she felt going to
> bed and watching a show at 900pm would be a good idea and that getting
> to sleep about 930pm. This isn't something she is being forced into so
> is this okay? On fridays and sat's she goes to sleep when she wants.
>
> DH is having a hard time with the idea of no bedtime. I'm just
> confused. She and I discussed her needs and she made a decision to
> attend certain events. Are we on the right path?
>
> Sherri in NJ
>
lindaguitar
--- In [email protected], "magicfingers_aus" <magicfingers.stella@...> wrote:
Do you live in an area where you can easily get to any of the following: parks, libraries, museums, theaters, a zoo or aquarium, a pottery studio, a lake or the ocean, a science and nature center, a planetarium and observatory, a golf course/skate park/swimming pool/gym, ..... ?
Is he the type who might like browsing shops that sell musical instruments or art supplies or sports equipment or electronics components, etc (even if you don't have money to buy these things, looking around can spark an interest and give an idea of something to start saving up to buy).
If he does not like change, is he the type who prefers a routine and a daily schedule? (If he is on the autism spectrum, he is very likely to feel the need for a daily routine. But even if not, he may be that type of personality.)
If he's old enough to have some idea of what he wants to do with his time, perhaps you and he could create a daily schedule together. He may not like change, in general, but if you let him know that his plans ARE flexible and subject to change if HE decides he's not happy with the plan, hopefully he'll be able to come up with an initial plan, and adapt to coming up with new plans/schedules as he feels the need.
It can be difficult for many kids who have been in a typical school, being told what to do and where to go every minute of the day, to figure out what they want to do with themselves, at first. They often don't even realize how many options there are for interesting things to do - even in the summer!
I was going to ask if he might enjoy the structure of a summer camp program, but the "aus" at the end of your user name led me to think you might be in Australia, where it's winter now. So if the rest of the kids in your area are not on summer break right now, that's not an option. But, if your son wants some kind of structure to his days (and possibly the opportunity to get together with groups of other kids), are there any programs/activities he can participate in after school hours? Something like sports or theater or a science club or comic-book/anime club, etc?
For things to do at home, what has he typically enjoyed doing on the weekends and holidays? Thinking of weekend and holiday activities that he typically enjoys might be a place to start. (AND what he has enjoyed doing during the summer, even if you're in a place where it's winter now.)
Linda
>Stella, how old is your son? Is he old enough to have a discussion about what he wants to do with his time? Can you and he come up with a list of things he would like to do, both at home and out at other places?
> I am wandering if anyone has some tips about how to begin..My boy is
> very rigid and does not like change,and I am struggling with the
> mental shift that is required.
> thanks
> Stella
Do you live in an area where you can easily get to any of the following: parks, libraries, museums, theaters, a zoo or aquarium, a pottery studio, a lake or the ocean, a science and nature center, a planetarium and observatory, a golf course/skate park/swimming pool/gym, ..... ?
Is he the type who might like browsing shops that sell musical instruments or art supplies or sports equipment or electronics components, etc (even if you don't have money to buy these things, looking around can spark an interest and give an idea of something to start saving up to buy).
If he does not like change, is he the type who prefers a routine and a daily schedule? (If he is on the autism spectrum, he is very likely to feel the need for a daily routine. But even if not, he may be that type of personality.)
If he's old enough to have some idea of what he wants to do with his time, perhaps you and he could create a daily schedule together. He may not like change, in general, but if you let him know that his plans ARE flexible and subject to change if HE decides he's not happy with the plan, hopefully he'll be able to come up with an initial plan, and adapt to coming up with new plans/schedules as he feels the need.
It can be difficult for many kids who have been in a typical school, being told what to do and where to go every minute of the day, to figure out what they want to do with themselves, at first. They often don't even realize how many options there are for interesting things to do - even in the summer!
I was going to ask if he might enjoy the structure of a summer camp program, but the "aus" at the end of your user name led me to think you might be in Australia, where it's winter now. So if the rest of the kids in your area are not on summer break right now, that's not an option. But, if your son wants some kind of structure to his days (and possibly the opportunity to get together with groups of other kids), are there any programs/activities he can participate in after school hours? Something like sports or theater or a science club or comic-book/anime club, etc?
For things to do at home, what has he typically enjoyed doing on the weekends and holidays? Thinking of weekend and holiday activities that he typically enjoys might be a place to start. (AND what he has enjoyed doing during the summer, even if you're in a place where it's winter now.)
Linda
Joyce Fetteroll
On Jun 28, 2012, at 3:20 AM, magicfingers_aus wrote:
What does he want to keep? What's valuable to him?
The more you can keep and the more you can make other things options for him to choose from when he's ready, the easier the transition will be for him.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> My boy is very rigid and does not like changeIt will help not to characterize not liking change in a negative light such as calling it rigid. Liking the familiar is a useful characteristic for someone charged with keeping tradition. ;-)
What does he want to keep? What's valuable to him?
The more you can keep and the more you can make other things options for him to choose from when he's ready, the easier the transition will be for him.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Meredith
"magicfingers_aus" <magicfingers.stella@...> wrote:
A good place to start reading is here:
http://sandradodd.com/help
What are you trying to get him to change? Does he Want to change? What does he see as the benefits of what he's doing now? What are his concerns about unschooling?
Sometimes kids have a lot of anxiety about unschooling, if they've heard a lot of messages about how necessary and valuable an education is, or if school has been their main source of friends.
---Meredith
>> I am wandering if anyone has some tips about how to begin.This might sound like a snarky question, but begin what? You might find you don't have a good idea how to answer that question - that's okay. Unschooling can seem very vague and undefined at first, but at it's core unschooling is about learning and seeing that learning is a natural part of life. It may be that the best way to "begin" is for you to spend some time learning about learning on the one hand, and spend more time being warm and close with your son on the other.
A good place to start reading is here:
http://sandradodd.com/help
>>My boy is very rigid and does not like changeIt's perfectly normal for to resist another person trying to change your life for you!
What are you trying to get him to change? Does he Want to change? What does he see as the benefits of what he's doing now? What are his concerns about unschooling?
Sometimes kids have a lot of anxiety about unschooling, if they've heard a lot of messages about how necessary and valuable an education is, or if school has been their main source of friends.
>>and I am struggling with the mental shift that is requiredAt this point, I suspect you're mostly lacking in information and don't have a very good idea what "unschooling" means yet. That's okay! Don't try to change everything at once or learn everything at once. Ease in. Start by being warmer and kinder and more thoughtful toward your kid as he is now. If he unsure, be easy and reassuring.
---Meredith
magicfingers_aus
--- In [email protected], "Meredith" <plaidpanties666@...> wrote:
Thanks for the link to Sandra Dodd. I have just bought her big book of unschooling.So much expertise and knowledge.
Thanks
Stella
> This might sound like a snarky question, but begin what?The process of giving him the choices....He has difficulty with anything that is free flowing, and needs regimentation and schedules to feel ok. It is very much a part of having ASD. I know that when he has recovered from the trauma of the last 6 months of Distance education he will really love the flow of doing his own thing he often says "he wants to be the boss of himself"
Thanks for the link to Sandra Dodd. I have just bought her big book of unschooling.So much expertise and knowledge.
Thanks
Stella
magicfingers_aus
--- In [email protected], "lindaguitar" <lindaguitar@...> wrote:
We are currently on school holidays so we have some space to do this before his expectation of formal lessons is likely to be a problem.
Thankyou for this wonderful post. It has given me so many options to think about, and yes we are in Australia.
> If he does not like change, is he the type who prefers a routine and a daily schedule? (If he is on the autism spectrum, he is very likely to feel the need for a daily routine.Yup, he is on the spectrum, has reactive attachment disorder and a host of learning difficulties.His life up until he came to me was very difficult, and very unstable He seems to really need the stability of routine. He has massive meltdowns when there is even a hint of change to his routines. BTW he is my 10 year old grandson, who lives with me for a whole host of difficult family reasons.
> If he's old enough to have some idea of what he wants to do with his time, perhaps you and he could create a daily schedule together.We started this discussion, but he got really upset at the thought of making that many choices( or any at all in fact) and that lead to a tantrum. I will continue the conversation in other ways over the next few weeks, and see if we can make some progress.
We are currently on school holidays so we have some space to do this before his expectation of formal lessons is likely to be a problem.
Thankyou for this wonderful post. It has given me so many options to think about, and yes we are in Australia.
Meredith
"magicfingers_aus" <magicfingers.stella@...> wrote:
It could help to step back from the idea of "free flowing" and instead think about how you can help him deal with life on his own terms. He likes schedules, but probably doesn't like them to feel helpless or at the mercy of someone else's decisions - so work with him to create schedules which help him feel comfortable and in control. Think and plan ahead **and** make a back-up plan so you can change on the fly if necessary, but don't set him up to make a lot of decisions on the spur of the moment.
My partner and daughter both find decision making in the moment overwhelming and sometimes default to saying "I don't know" until their passivity makes whatever decision for them. That's frustrating for them as well as for me - they don't want to feel helpless and overwhelmed! So it's better for them if plans and decisions are made in advance. Ironically, that can result in a lot of last minute changes of plans with them - but somehow knowing there's a plan frees them up to say "No, not that, I want this instead."
For my two, "free flow" looks a lot like there's a schedule. I'm the working parent, and George is the home parent and when I get to be home for awhile I get to see their routines - they're very regular and predictable, but now and then the whole routine Bang! changes and there's a new routine. Sometimes something changes and there's no routine for awhile and whichever one will kind of flounder around for days or even a couple weeks, not having any idea what to do, dissatisfied with everything and generally in a funk. This spring they managed to coordinate their funks and I was ready to tear my hair out with both of them saying "Oh, I don't know" about everything.
expectation of formal lessons is likely to be a problem.
****************
Go slowly. Don't change everything all at once. If having a formal schedule is helpful to him, make one. It doesn't have to be all lessons, but help him structure his time so he's not overwhelmed by a gazzillion possibilities. But as I said before, be sure to have a back up plan so if the moment he says "I don't want to do this" you can say "well, you really don't Have To, we can do this other thing".
What sorts of things does he like to do? When does he have more energy and curiosity and when does he tend to want to relax? Make your schedule and back-up with those things in mind.
So, for instance, my daughter likes to build with legos, draw (by hand and on the computer, watch movies, play video games, and jump on the trampoline. If I was to make a schedule I'd start and end the day with energetic, creative things - draw until lunch, with trampoline breaks. In the middle of the day, I'd schedule watching movies, some computer games in the afternoon, then maybe legos until she's ready for bed. I'm cheating - that's what a lot of her days look like already! But I can see that her interests and energy follow a kind of pattern. On my "schedule" if she didn't want to draw, I'd suggest something else creative, knowing that's most likely what she'll find appealing at that time of day. Do you see how that works? Your son will have natural ups and downs over the course of the day, so create a plan that reflects those.
Also consider if there's a good "emergency option" - with Mo, it's "lets go to Walmart" (we could go other places, but we live on the edge of a small southern town - there's a Walmart. More than that involves an hour's drive). Getting out of the house helps her kind of reboot in a sense, when she's fallen into a big "I don't know" funk. Unfortunately, her dad doesn't like to go out when He's in a funk, so for a few weeks I was coming home from work and going right back out again with Mo... whew!
---Meredith
>> The process of giving him the choices....He has difficulty with anything that is free flowing, and needs regimentation and schedules to feel ok.********************
It could help to step back from the idea of "free flowing" and instead think about how you can help him deal with life on his own terms. He likes schedules, but probably doesn't like them to feel helpless or at the mercy of someone else's decisions - so work with him to create schedules which help him feel comfortable and in control. Think and plan ahead **and** make a back-up plan so you can change on the fly if necessary, but don't set him up to make a lot of decisions on the spur of the moment.
My partner and daughter both find decision making in the moment overwhelming and sometimes default to saying "I don't know" until their passivity makes whatever decision for them. That's frustrating for them as well as for me - they don't want to feel helpless and overwhelmed! So it's better for them if plans and decisions are made in advance. Ironically, that can result in a lot of last minute changes of plans with them - but somehow knowing there's a plan frees them up to say "No, not that, I want this instead."
>>I know that when he has recovered from the trauma of the last 6 months of Distance education he will really love the flow of doing his own thing***************
For my two, "free flow" looks a lot like there's a schedule. I'm the working parent, and George is the home parent and when I get to be home for awhile I get to see their routines - they're very regular and predictable, but now and then the whole routine Bang! changes and there's a new routine. Sometimes something changes and there's no routine for awhile and whichever one will kind of flounder around for days or even a couple weeks, not having any idea what to do, dissatisfied with everything and generally in a funk. This spring they managed to coordinate their funks and I was ready to tear my hair out with both of them saying "Oh, I don't know" about everything.
>>We started this discussion, but he got really upset at the thought of makingthat many choices( or any at all in fact)...We are currently on school holidays so we have some space to do this before his
expectation of formal lessons is likely to be a problem.
****************
Go slowly. Don't change everything all at once. If having a formal schedule is helpful to him, make one. It doesn't have to be all lessons, but help him structure his time so he's not overwhelmed by a gazzillion possibilities. But as I said before, be sure to have a back up plan so if the moment he says "I don't want to do this" you can say "well, you really don't Have To, we can do this other thing".
What sorts of things does he like to do? When does he have more energy and curiosity and when does he tend to want to relax? Make your schedule and back-up with those things in mind.
So, for instance, my daughter likes to build with legos, draw (by hand and on the computer, watch movies, play video games, and jump on the trampoline. If I was to make a schedule I'd start and end the day with energetic, creative things - draw until lunch, with trampoline breaks. In the middle of the day, I'd schedule watching movies, some computer games in the afternoon, then maybe legos until she's ready for bed. I'm cheating - that's what a lot of her days look like already! But I can see that her interests and energy follow a kind of pattern. On my "schedule" if she didn't want to draw, I'd suggest something else creative, knowing that's most likely what she'll find appealing at that time of day. Do you see how that works? Your son will have natural ups and downs over the course of the day, so create a plan that reflects those.
Also consider if there's a good "emergency option" - with Mo, it's "lets go to Walmart" (we could go other places, but we live on the edge of a small southern town - there's a Walmart. More than that involves an hour's drive). Getting out of the house helps her kind of reboot in a sense, when she's fallen into a big "I don't know" funk. Unfortunately, her dad doesn't like to go out when He's in a funk, so for a few weeks I was coming home from work and going right back out again with Mo... whew!
---Meredith
littleflowerbug513
Hi My name is Katie and my husband and I have 4 children ages 8, 5, 3 and almost 2. I have a degree in early childhood education and taught for a couple of year before having children. We always planned to homeschool but I have been drawn now to unschooling. This does not seem a problem for my children since they have never been to school but a little harder for me to leave my background behind. We use the library a lot and do lots of reading but lately it seems that they spend the large majority of their days playing imaginary games (wonderfully involved ones!) that they dont want to stop when I try to interest them in any other activity. I know from the reading I have done that unschooling allows for unlimited TV and Computer but what about just play? Are they really learning enough from 4 hours of princess play?
Maybe it is just hard for me to let go of what I would see as educational activities!
Thanks in advance for your thoughts!
Katie
Maybe it is just hard for me to let go of what I would see as educational activities!
Thanks in advance for your thoughts!
Katie
Meredith
"littleflowerbug513" wrote:
YES!
Play is how children learn. One of the hardest thing for former teachers, sometimes, is remembering that - it's been "educated" out of you ;)
With princess play, in particular, kids are learning about language, story, social relationships, and cultural aesthetics in addition to sensorial learning, sequencing, problem solving, gross and fine motor skills, and cause-and-effect. Depending on the specifics of their play, they may be learning about ethics/morality, social justice, and mortality. Those are all common themes in the dramatic play of young children.
One of the ideas that school sets in adult minds is that children have limited attention spans. It's not true! Schools, including preschools, do a great disservice to children by setting them up to stop what they're doing after short periods of time - have you read the essay "The Six Lesson Schoolteacher" by John Gatto? He describes the way schools prevent kids from engaging in anything for long periods of time very caustically:
<<The second lesson I teach kids is to turn on and off like a light switch. I demand that they become totally involved in my lessons, jumping up and down in their seats with anticipation, competing vigorously with each other for my favor. But when the bell rings I insist that they drop the work at once and proceed quickly to the next work station. Nothing important is ever finished in my class, nor in any other class I know of.
The lesson of bells is that no work is worth finishing, so why care too deeply about anything? Bells are the secret logic of schooltime; their argument is inexorable; bells destroy past and future, converting every interval into a sameness, as an abstract map makes every living mountain and river the same even though they are not. Bells inoculate each undertaking with indifference.>>
The whole text is here, if you're interested:
http://www.cantrip.org/gatto.html
By all means have other things to offer them, but wait until they let you know they're ready for something else. Over time, you'll get a sense of how long they naturally spend on various activities and you'll be able to use that as a way to plan. You'll probably find that your lives have a certain amount of organic structure to them purely through being sensitive to the natural rhythms of your kids' play.
Here's a collection of essays and ideas about unschooling with young children:
http://sandradodd.com/toddlers
---Meredith
>I know from the reading I have done that unschooling allows for unlimited TV and Computer but what about just play? Are they really learning enough from 4 hours of princess play?****************
YES!
Play is how children learn. One of the hardest thing for former teachers, sometimes, is remembering that - it's been "educated" out of you ;)
With princess play, in particular, kids are learning about language, story, social relationships, and cultural aesthetics in addition to sensorial learning, sequencing, problem solving, gross and fine motor skills, and cause-and-effect. Depending on the specifics of their play, they may be learning about ethics/morality, social justice, and mortality. Those are all common themes in the dramatic play of young children.
>>4 hours of princess play...Four hours isn't very long. It's a pretty average length of time for a child - or an adult for that matter - to be engaged in something interesting before being ready to shift gears. Since little kids tend to need to eat more often than that, it's a good idea to offer snacks - bring them right to where the kids are playing if they don't want to stop. Little end tables or plastic patio tables are handy for that.
One of the ideas that school sets in adult minds is that children have limited attention spans. It's not true! Schools, including preschools, do a great disservice to children by setting them up to stop what they're doing after short periods of time - have you read the essay "The Six Lesson Schoolteacher" by John Gatto? He describes the way schools prevent kids from engaging in anything for long periods of time very caustically:
<<The second lesson I teach kids is to turn on and off like a light switch. I demand that they become totally involved in my lessons, jumping up and down in their seats with anticipation, competing vigorously with each other for my favor. But when the bell rings I insist that they drop the work at once and proceed quickly to the next work station. Nothing important is ever finished in my class, nor in any other class I know of.
The lesson of bells is that no work is worth finishing, so why care too deeply about anything? Bells are the secret logic of schooltime; their argument is inexorable; bells destroy past and future, converting every interval into a sameness, as an abstract map makes every living mountain and river the same even though they are not. Bells inoculate each undertaking with indifference.>>
The whole text is here, if you're interested:
http://www.cantrip.org/gatto.html
>>they dont want to stop when I try to interest them in any other activitySome of that may be related to what I wrote above: that you're interrupting them when they're in the middle of something rather than waiting until they're at a transitional point. In addition to being counter-productive, that's rude! Adults get very frustrated when kids interrupt, but adults are typically horrible about interrupting children. So stop modelling interrupting ;) Be courteous and considerate of what your kids are doing.
By all means have other things to offer them, but wait until they let you know they're ready for something else. Over time, you'll get a sense of how long they naturally spend on various activities and you'll be able to use that as a way to plan. You'll probably find that your lives have a certain amount of organic structure to them purely through being sensitive to the natural rhythms of your kids' play.
Here's a collection of essays and ideas about unschooling with young children:
http://sandradodd.com/toddlers
---Meredith
Joyce Fetteroll
On Jan 13, 2013, at 8:09 AM, littleflowerbug513 wrote:
Though I'll qualify that! If all a kid has to play with is sticks and stones, they'll find a way to be engaged with sticks and stones. For a child to be choosing activities that are meaningful to what they're curious about, the environment needs to be full of rich opportunities that they might enjoy. (Not just stuff adults think they should be interested in! One time a mom groused that the kids were playing video games instead of the educational kits and books stored on the shelves.) Even more it needs you to be doing interesting things and drawing them in. (That mom wasn't doing the kits. She wasn't making cookies. She was expecting the kids to get interested and plunge in all on their own.)
If the kids are then choosing princess play over other things then that means it's exactly what they need. :-)
They're playing around with the ideas of how people interact with each other. Which is more complex and rocket science! :-) They're exploring the elements of storytelling and human relationships, both of which adults can end up spending a lifetime learning about and still never be done.
http://sandradodd.com/deschooling
http://sandradodd.com/bookworship
It's hard to express this in a way that doesn't sound like "Books aren't important." Obviously books are wonderful :-) So do keep visiting the library. Do keep reading to them if they enjoy it.
But books have been elevated so high that people tend to dismiss other ways of learning as though they had only minor importance. People focus their idea of what "best learning" looks like on what books do best: present facts in words.
But now that we can hold the internet in our hands, and get the facts as fast as our thumbs can type, what schools actually teach -- the stuff that teachers can test -- is practically irrelevant.
What the world needs is people who can experience life and ask questions. People who can try things out and learn from what they try.
In other words: Play :-)
All ways of learning are important. Would you want to take horseback riding lessons from someone who'd only read books about horses? Or eat at a restaurant with a chef who'd only read about cooking food?
Some ways of learning are more important for learning some things. Some are more important to some people because they learn better in ways other than books.
But since schools rely so heavily on books -- because it's as close as 1 teacher can manage to get 30 students learning the same thing at the same time -- people tend to think books are the ultimate way to learn. Books were the ultimate bridge to the world and the past when humans often didn't move far from home in their entire lives. But now the world comes to us and we can go to the world in all sorts of rich ways and books pale in that in comparison. The internet. Movies. TV. Video games.
Seeing, smelling, tasting, feeling, hearing. Unless a book has (static) pictures, they offer none of those. See books for what they do best. But embrace other ways of learning. Since your kids aren't tied to desks, make sure they have the opportunities -- if they want to explore them -- to engage all their senses, and explore the ways *they* find most meaningful.
This might help:
Why You Can't Let Go
http://sandradodd.com/joyce/talk
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Are they really learning enough from 4 hours of princess play?If they're engaged they're learning. :-)
Though I'll qualify that! If all a kid has to play with is sticks and stones, they'll find a way to be engaged with sticks and stones. For a child to be choosing activities that are meaningful to what they're curious about, the environment needs to be full of rich opportunities that they might enjoy. (Not just stuff adults think they should be interested in! One time a mom groused that the kids were playing video games instead of the educational kits and books stored on the shelves.) Even more it needs you to be doing interesting things and drawing them in. (That mom wasn't doing the kits. She wasn't making cookies. She was expecting the kids to get interested and plunge in all on their own.)
If the kids are then choosing princess play over other things then that means it's exactly what they need. :-)
They're playing around with the ideas of how people interact with each other. Which is more complex and rocket science! :-) They're exploring the elements of storytelling and human relationships, both of which adults can end up spending a lifetime learning about and still never be done.
> but a little harder for me to leave my background behind.Adults generally need way more deschooling than kids. Adults have been on the planet hearing about how necessary school is far longer than kids. And as a teacher you've been immersed in that way of thinking since you were 5 or 6 until now. A good rule of thumb is it takes 1 month for each year in school. And those years count as student or teacher!
http://sandradodd.com/deschooling
> We use the library a lot and do lots of readingBooks are only a tiny portion of ways to learn about the world.
http://sandradodd.com/bookworship
It's hard to express this in a way that doesn't sound like "Books aren't important." Obviously books are wonderful :-) So do keep visiting the library. Do keep reading to them if they enjoy it.
But books have been elevated so high that people tend to dismiss other ways of learning as though they had only minor importance. People focus their idea of what "best learning" looks like on what books do best: present facts in words.
But now that we can hold the internet in our hands, and get the facts as fast as our thumbs can type, what schools actually teach -- the stuff that teachers can test -- is practically irrelevant.
What the world needs is people who can experience life and ask questions. People who can try things out and learn from what they try.
In other words: Play :-)
All ways of learning are important. Would you want to take horseback riding lessons from someone who'd only read books about horses? Or eat at a restaurant with a chef who'd only read about cooking food?
Some ways of learning are more important for learning some things. Some are more important to some people because they learn better in ways other than books.
But since schools rely so heavily on books -- because it's as close as 1 teacher can manage to get 30 students learning the same thing at the same time -- people tend to think books are the ultimate way to learn. Books were the ultimate bridge to the world and the past when humans often didn't move far from home in their entire lives. But now the world comes to us and we can go to the world in all sorts of rich ways and books pale in that in comparison. The internet. Movies. TV. Video games.
Seeing, smelling, tasting, feeling, hearing. Unless a book has (static) pictures, they offer none of those. See books for what they do best. But embrace other ways of learning. Since your kids aren't tied to desks, make sure they have the opportunities -- if they want to explore them -- to engage all their senses, and explore the ways *they* find most meaningful.
This might help:
Why You Can't Let Go
http://sandradodd.com/joyce/talk
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
Playing is how children learn. If you think learning is separate from life is playing you will not be able to see your children learning.
Here are some links:
http://sandradodd.com/deschooling
http://sandradodd.com/playing
http://sandradodd.com/day/maryb
Alex Polikowsky
________________________________
From: littleflowerbug513 <littleflowerbug513@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 7:09 AM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] New to Unschooling
Hi My name is Katie and my husband and I have 4 children ages 8, 5, 3 and almost 2. I have a degree in early childhood education and taught for a couple of year before having children. We always planned to homeschool but I have been drawn now to unschooling. This does not seem a problem for my children since they have never been to school but a little harder for me to leave my background behind. We use the library a lot and do lots of reading but lately it seems that they spend the large majority of their days playing imaginary games (wonderfully involved ones!) that they dont want to stop when I try to interest them in any other activity. I know from the reading I have done that unschooling allows for unlimited TV and Computer but what about just play? Are they really learning enough from 4 hours of princess play?
Maybe it is just hard for me to let go of what I would see as educational activities!
Thanks in advance for your thoughts!
Katie
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Here are some links:
http://sandradodd.com/deschooling
http://sandradodd.com/playing
http://sandradodd.com/day/maryb
Alex Polikowsky
________________________________
From: littleflowerbug513 <littleflowerbug513@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 7:09 AM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] New to Unschooling
Hi My name is Katie and my husband and I have 4 children ages 8, 5, 3 and almost 2. I have a degree in early childhood education and taught for a couple of year before having children. We always planned to homeschool but I have been drawn now to unschooling. This does not seem a problem for my children since they have never been to school but a little harder for me to leave my background behind. We use the library a lot and do lots of reading but lately it seems that they spend the large majority of their days playing imaginary games (wonderfully involved ones!) that they dont want to stop when I try to interest them in any other activity. I know from the reading I have done that unschooling allows for unlimited TV and Computer but what about just play? Are they really learning enough from 4 hours of princess play?
Maybe it is just hard for me to let go of what I would see as educational activities!
Thanks in advance for your thoughts!
Katie
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Jan 13, 2013, at 9:58 AM, Meredith wrote:
Play is research. It's trying stuff out. It's seeing what happens. It's asking questions. It's making guesses, forming theories.
It doesn't matter whether kids are learning to wonder, observe and ask questions about princesses or volcanos. It's the process that's important. The current answers can be Googled. It's asking the questions no one has asked that's important.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Play is how children learn.And it's not just a pretty image. It's profoundly true. Animals evolved to pull understanding from the world around them, not from reading books. ;-) Memorizing someone else's understanding -- though we can do it -- it isn't natural for us. And it's quite difficult for some people to memorize stuff they haven't used and understood.
Play is research. It's trying stuff out. It's seeing what happens. It's asking questions. It's making guesses, forming theories.
It doesn't matter whether kids are learning to wonder, observe and ask questions about princesses or volcanos. It's the process that's important. The current answers can be Googled. It's asking the questions no one has asked that's important.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
Usually new unschooling parents come on here worried that their children are watching too much TV or playing too many video games and are not up and about enough, using their own imaginations enough. Yours are doing just the opposite and here you are -- worried. Welcome! :)
"Just play" is fine. They are learning plenty. Relax. You have been provided several fine links to reassure you. I'm just enjoying the irony. :)
Nance
"Just play" is fine. They are learning plenty. Relax. You have been provided several fine links to reassure you. I'm just enjoying the irony. :)
Nance
--- In [email protected], "littleflowerbug513" wrote:
>
> Hi My name is Katie and my husband and I have 4 children ages 8, 5, 3 and almost 2. I have a degree in early childhood education and taught for a couple of year before having children. We always planned to homeschool but I have been drawn now to unschooling. This does not seem a problem for my children since they have never been to school but a little harder for me to leave my background behind. We use the library a lot and do lots of reading but lately it seems that they spend the large majority of their days playing imaginary games (wonderfully involved ones!) that they dont want to stop when I try to interest them in any other activity. I know from the reading I have done that unschooling allows for unlimited TV and Computer but what about just play? Are they really learning enough from 4 hours of princess play?
> Maybe it is just hard for me to let go of what I would see as educational activities!
> Thanks in advance for your thoughts!
> Katie
>
lindaguitar
Hi Katie,
One of the BEST sources of information about the value of unlimited play is articles written Daniel Greenberg, one of the founders of the Sudbury Valley School, in MA. See:
sudval.org
and
http://www.sudval.org/05_underlyingideas.html#02 - 2nd article is about play.
Other good articles about the importance/value of play have been written by psychologist Peter Gray, in his blog "Freedom To Learn", on Psychology Today's website. See:
http://www.psychologytoday.com/files/attachments/1195/ajp-age-mixing-published.pdf
Here's another article about the Sudbury Valley School and the benefits of unlimited playtime, from psychology Today, but by a different author:
http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/200604/education-class-dismissed
Daniel Greenberg has also put out a series of lectures, on CD, and one of those talks about the tremendous value of freedom for kids to have unlimited time to just TALK to each other. Kids do, invariably, spend a lot of time just sharing their thoughts with each other, while playing.
The Sudbury schools (of which SVS was the first) are Democratic schools in which the students are entirely free to choose how to spend their days, within the framework of rules that the students and staff (the students being the vast majority) have suggested and voted on, to protect everyone's rights within the community.
Most Sudbury students spend most of each day playing - especially before they're teens. The Sudbury schools' students range in age from 4 to 18. Those teens who graduate from the Sudbury schools invariably get accepted into good colleges, if they want to go to college, and those who have chosen not to go to college have found success in a great variety of professions, or have started their own businesses. And they have done so after having a happy, free childhood!
There are certainly some differences between being unschooled and attending a Sudbury school. But the similarities can't be denied. What applies to the Sudbury school kids, in terms of education and freedom and the value of unlimited play time, most definitely applies to unschoolers. I refer people to the articles about SVS and other Sudbury schools because they have so many years' worth of documented evidence of the success of their approach! Articles by Daniel Greenberg, Peter Gray, and others, were tremendously helpful to me, in gaining confidence in what we were doing when we started to homeschool (and then drifted quickly into unschooling).
Hopefully this will help you feel more confident about unschooling too!
I have two kids, btw. They are 21 and 19, and are both in college and both working part-time now.
Linda
One of the BEST sources of information about the value of unlimited play is articles written Daniel Greenberg, one of the founders of the Sudbury Valley School, in MA. See:
sudval.org
and
http://www.sudval.org/05_underlyingideas.html#02 - 2nd article is about play.
Other good articles about the importance/value of play have been written by psychologist Peter Gray, in his blog "Freedom To Learn", on Psychology Today's website. See:
http://www.psychologytoday.com/files/attachments/1195/ajp-age-mixing-published.pdf
Here's another article about the Sudbury Valley School and the benefits of unlimited playtime, from psychology Today, but by a different author:
http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/200604/education-class-dismissed
Daniel Greenberg has also put out a series of lectures, on CD, and one of those talks about the tremendous value of freedom for kids to have unlimited time to just TALK to each other. Kids do, invariably, spend a lot of time just sharing their thoughts with each other, while playing.
The Sudbury schools (of which SVS was the first) are Democratic schools in which the students are entirely free to choose how to spend their days, within the framework of rules that the students and staff (the students being the vast majority) have suggested and voted on, to protect everyone's rights within the community.
Most Sudbury students spend most of each day playing - especially before they're teens. The Sudbury schools' students range in age from 4 to 18. Those teens who graduate from the Sudbury schools invariably get accepted into good colleges, if they want to go to college, and those who have chosen not to go to college have found success in a great variety of professions, or have started their own businesses. And they have done so after having a happy, free childhood!
There are certainly some differences between being unschooled and attending a Sudbury school. But the similarities can't be denied. What applies to the Sudbury school kids, in terms of education and freedom and the value of unlimited play time, most definitely applies to unschoolers. I refer people to the articles about SVS and other Sudbury schools because they have so many years' worth of documented evidence of the success of their approach! Articles by Daniel Greenberg, Peter Gray, and others, were tremendously helpful to me, in gaining confidence in what we were doing when we started to homeschool (and then drifted quickly into unschooling).
Hopefully this will help you feel more confident about unschooling too!
I have two kids, btw. They are 21 and 19, and are both in college and both working part-time now.
Linda
--- In [email protected], "littleflowerbug513" wrote:
>
> Hi My name is Katie and my husband and I have 4 children ages 8, 5, 3 and almost 2. I have a degree in early childhood education and taught for a couple of year before having children. We always planned to homeschool but I have been drawn now to unschooling. This does not seem a problem for my children since they have never been to school but a little harder for me to leave my background behind. We use the library a lot and do lots of reading but lately it seems that they spend the large majority of their days playing imaginary games (wonderfully involved ones!) that they dont want to stop when I try to interest them in any other activity. I know from the reading I have done that unschooling allows for unlimited TV and Computer but what about just play? Are they really learning enough from 4 hours of princess play?
> Maybe it is just hard for me to let go of what I would see as educational activities!
> Thanks in advance for your thoughts!
> Katie
>
Amy Morgan
This is very informative. Thanks for sharing. Almost makes me want to pull out the dress up dresses and play myself. LOL
Amy M. Mrs.Rooster.
________________________________
From: lindaguitar <lindaguitar@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 7:55 PM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: New to Unschooling
Hi Katie,
One of the BEST sources of information about the value of unlimited play is articles written Daniel Greenberg, one of the founders of the Sudbury Valley School, in MA. See:
sudval.org
and
http://www.sudval.org/05_underlyingideas.html#02 - 2nd article is about play.
Other good articles about the importance/value of play have been written by psychologist Peter Gray, in his blog "Freedom To Learn", on Psychology Today's website. See:
http://www.psychologytoday.com/files/attachments/1195/ajp-age-mixing-published.pdf
Here's another article about the Sudbury Valley School and the benefits of unlimited playtime, from psychology Today, but by a different author:
http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/200604/education-class-dismissed
Daniel Greenberg has also put out a series of lectures, on CD, and one of those talks about the tremendous value of freedom for kids to have unlimited time to just TALK to each other. Kids do, invariably, spend a lot of time just sharing their thoughts with each other, while playing.
The Sudbury schools (of which SVS was the first) are Democratic schools in which the students are entirely free to choose how to spend their days, within the framework of rules that the students and staff (the students being the vast majority) have suggested and voted on, to protect everyone's rights within the community.
Most Sudbury students spend most of each day playing - especially before they're teens. The Sudbury schools' students range in age from 4 to 18. Those teens who graduate from the Sudbury schools invariably get accepted into good colleges, if they want to go to college, and those who have chosen not to go to college have found success in a great variety of professions, or have started their own businesses. And they have done so after having a happy, free childhood!
There are certainly some differences between being unschooled and attending a Sudbury school. But the similarities can't be denied. What applies to the Sudbury school kids, in terms of education and freedom and the value of unlimited play time, most definitely applies to unschoolers. I refer people to the articles about SVS and other Sudbury schools because they have so many years' worth of documented evidence of the success of their approach! Articles by Daniel Greenberg, Peter Gray, and others, were tremendously helpful to me, in gaining confidence in what we were doing when we started to homeschool (and then drifted quickly into unschooling).
Hopefully this will help you feel more confident about unschooling too!
I have two kids, btw. They are 21 and 19, and are both in college and both working part-time now.
Linda
Amy M. Mrs.Rooster.
________________________________
From: lindaguitar <lindaguitar@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 7:55 PM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: New to Unschooling
Hi Katie,
One of the BEST sources of information about the value of unlimited play is articles written Daniel Greenberg, one of the founders of the Sudbury Valley School, in MA. See:
sudval.org
and
http://www.sudval.org/05_underlyingideas.html#02 - 2nd article is about play.
Other good articles about the importance/value of play have been written by psychologist Peter Gray, in his blog "Freedom To Learn", on Psychology Today's website. See:
http://www.psychologytoday.com/files/attachments/1195/ajp-age-mixing-published.pdf
Here's another article about the Sudbury Valley School and the benefits of unlimited playtime, from psychology Today, but by a different author:
http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/200604/education-class-dismissed
Daniel Greenberg has also put out a series of lectures, on CD, and one of those talks about the tremendous value of freedom for kids to have unlimited time to just TALK to each other. Kids do, invariably, spend a lot of time just sharing their thoughts with each other, while playing.
The Sudbury schools (of which SVS was the first) are Democratic schools in which the students are entirely free to choose how to spend their days, within the framework of rules that the students and staff (the students being the vast majority) have suggested and voted on, to protect everyone's rights within the community.
Most Sudbury students spend most of each day playing - especially before they're teens. The Sudbury schools' students range in age from 4 to 18. Those teens who graduate from the Sudbury schools invariably get accepted into good colleges, if they want to go to college, and those who have chosen not to go to college have found success in a great variety of professions, or have started their own businesses. And they have done so after having a happy, free childhood!
There are certainly some differences between being unschooled and attending a Sudbury school. But the similarities can't be denied. What applies to the Sudbury school kids, in terms of education and freedom and the value of unlimited play time, most definitely applies to unschoolers. I refer people to the articles about SVS and other Sudbury schools because they have so many years' worth of documented evidence of the success of their approach! Articles by Daniel Greenberg, Peter Gray, and others, were tremendously helpful to me, in gaining confidence in what we were doing when we started to homeschool (and then drifted quickly into unschooling).
Hopefully this will help you feel more confident about unschooling too!
I have two kids, btw. They are 21 and 19, and are both in college and both working part-time now.
Linda
--- In mailto:unschoolingbasics%40yahoogroups.com, "littleflowerbug513" wrote:
>
> Hi My name is Katie and my husband and I have 4 children ages 8, 5, 3 and almost 2. I have a degree in early childhood education and taught for a couple of year before having children. We always planned to homeschool but I have been drawn now to unschooling. This does not seem a problem for my children since they have never been to school but a little harder for me to leave my background behind. We use the library a lot and do lots of reading but lately it seems that they spend the large majority of their days playing imaginary games (wonderfully involved ones!) that they dont want to stop when I try to interest them in any other activity. I know from the reading I have done that unschooling allows for unlimited TV and Computer but what about just play? Are they really learning enough from 4 hours of princess play?
> Maybe it is just hard for me to let go of what I would see as educational activities!
> Thanks in advance for your thoughts!
> Katie
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
JRossedd
Yes, they "are really learning from four hours of princess play."
Take it from another professional educator who went into unschooling
much as you sound now. My 22-year-old is awaiting acceptance to her
doctoral program for fall . . . and my 17-year-old may turn out not to
be a school type at all, in which case it's a good thing he didn't get
chewed up and spit out by it!
Unschooling presents its own challenges for a trained teacher. It's
worth it.
JJ
Take it from another professional educator who went into unschooling
much as you sound now. My 22-year-old is awaiting acceptance to her
doctoral program for fall . . . and my 17-year-old may turn out not to
be a school type at all, in which case it's a good thing he didn't get
chewed up and spit out by it!
Unschooling presents its own challenges for a trained teacher. It's
worth it.
JJ
kiksbrd
I began homeschooling my 8 yr old son this past January.He was unhappy in a Waldorf school, having many meltdowns in the evenings, I couldnt continue to send him into a situation that seemed to me to be causing great stress for him. I've been very drawn to the idea of Unschooling, child lead learning etc. I haven't yet read John Holts writings (plan to), but I've read a lot from Sandra Dodd's website, and other online groups . I first began the whole process with much worry and anxiety (mostly due to outside pressure from family and my partner, his father). I was making up math work sheets, and little projects here and there. I have now stopped making him do these things, and I do see that he has many interests, (mountains of the world, weather logs, land formations, there's more). He undoubtedly is learning, but I'm having trouble understanding how to proceed. How do I successfully "unschool"? There are still days when I feel a trip to the library, a hike, bike riding, and video games somehow is not enough. Perhaps it's the pressure from his father, who keeps saying things like, "He needs to be in school", that is causing my doubts to surface periodically. Any input would be most appreciated. I guess I feel that it's a somewhat abstract idea (unschooling). There's no list of "steps" or an exact formula, so it seems vague at times-almost like just doing whatever, whenever is the general idea....but that doesn't seem acceptable somehow.
Kiki
Kiki
Joyce Fetteroll
On Apr 24, 2013, at 10:43 PM, kiksbrd wrote:
What worries him? What does he fear?
Try to get some specifics rather than vague answers like "school". What can you show him on a regular basis that would make him feel heard and feel less anxious?
Some moms find keeping a blog helpful. Put up pictures of what you're doing, make note of learning that's happening. Part of the problem with fathers who work all day, let alone those who don't even live with their kids, is they don't get to see what's happening. They don't get feedback that learning is happening. They feel disconnected and powerless.
It's quite possible he's picking up on your anxiety and adding it to his own. How can you fill him with confidence when you aren't confident yourself?
Keep revisiting those questions with him to refine what worries him. Revise what you're doing. Try new things.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Perhaps it's the pressure from his father, who keeps saying things like, "He needs to be in school"What will help him feel more comfortable about his son's learning? What would he like to see?
What worries him? What does he fear?
Try to get some specifics rather than vague answers like "school". What can you show him on a regular basis that would make him feel heard and feel less anxious?
Some moms find keeping a blog helpful. Put up pictures of what you're doing, make note of learning that's happening. Part of the problem with fathers who work all day, let alone those who don't even live with their kids, is they don't get to see what's happening. They don't get feedback that learning is happening. They feel disconnected and powerless.
It's quite possible he's picking up on your anxiety and adding it to his own. How can you fill him with confidence when you aren't confident yourself?
Keep revisiting those questions with him to refine what worries him. Revise what you're doing. Try new things.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Meredith
"kiksbrd" <kiksbrd@...> wrote:
It can help to think about learning - how it happens, what it's for - and about what you see as the goals of childhood. That's kind of an odd phrase, "goals of childhood" - but in essence that's what you're asking; how to help your kids have a successful childhood.
Not enough what? That's something to think about and clarify - at least for yourself.
Maybe not enough hard work - part of deschooling is getting past the school idea that learning involves a lot of hard work. If life is easy and joyful, it doesn't "feel" like anyone's learning because it doesn't seem anything like the drudgery of school.
It might help to read some about learning - I haven't read Holt, so I don't know if what he has to say would be helpful to you. Frank Smith's Book of Learning and Forgetting might be better. There's also a lot collected on the subject of learning here:
http://sandradodd.com/connections/
Maybe not enough subjects - there's another bit of school-in-your head, because schools try to pack a little of everything into a day, without any regard for the fact that doing so is really, really counterproductive to learning.
Are your kids bored? That's a good measure of whether you're doing enough. If they're struggling to fill the hours, then yes, offer more, suggest more. If they're contentedly pursuing interests, though, don't drag them away from what's interesting to them.
Have you tried keeping a journal of what they're learning? That might help you as well as him, if you start pulling apart what your kids are doing to see the learning going on. It also might help you clarify where you're getting stuck - if you can't think what they could possibly be learning riding bikes, for instance, that's a good clue that you're having trouble seeing past school to real learning. You're welcome to ask here! but it could also help to look at some of the things unschooling parents have written to describe their kids learning process to various authorities:
http://sandradodd.com/unschoolingcurriculum.html
---Meredith
>He undoubtedly is learning, but I'm having trouble understanding how to proceed. How do I successfully "unschool"?**************
It can help to think about learning - how it happens, what it's for - and about what you see as the goals of childhood. That's kind of an odd phrase, "goals of childhood" - but in essence that's what you're asking; how to help your kids have a successful childhood.
>>There are still days when I feel a trip to the library, a hike, bike riding, and video games somehow is not enough.************
Not enough what? That's something to think about and clarify - at least for yourself.
Maybe not enough hard work - part of deschooling is getting past the school idea that learning involves a lot of hard work. If life is easy and joyful, it doesn't "feel" like anyone's learning because it doesn't seem anything like the drudgery of school.
It might help to read some about learning - I haven't read Holt, so I don't know if what he has to say would be helpful to you. Frank Smith's Book of Learning and Forgetting might be better. There's also a lot collected on the subject of learning here:
http://sandradodd.com/connections/
Maybe not enough subjects - there's another bit of school-in-your head, because schools try to pack a little of everything into a day, without any regard for the fact that doing so is really, really counterproductive to learning.
Are your kids bored? That's a good measure of whether you're doing enough. If they're struggling to fill the hours, then yes, offer more, suggest more. If they're contentedly pursuing interests, though, don't drag them away from what's interesting to them.
>>Perhaps it's the pressure from his father, who keeps saying things like, "He needs to be in school"*************
Have you tried keeping a journal of what they're learning? That might help you as well as him, if you start pulling apart what your kids are doing to see the learning going on. It also might help you clarify where you're getting stuck - if you can't think what they could possibly be learning riding bikes, for instance, that's a good clue that you're having trouble seeing past school to real learning. You're welcome to ask here! but it could also help to look at some of the things unschooling parents have written to describe their kids learning process to various authorities:
http://sandradodd.com/unschoolingcurriculum.html
---Meredith
[email protected]
There's no list of "steps" or an exact formula, so it seems vague at times-almost like just doing whatever, whenever is the general idea....but that doesn't seem acceptable somehow.
Kiki
*******************************
Yep. Kind of like life. :)
You might check out this link -- http://joyfullyrejoycing.com/ -- it has answers to a lot of the questions so many new unschoolers have.
And listen to Dad. See what it is that he actually wants for his son. See how all of you can make that happen.
Nance
Kiki
*******************************
Yep. Kind of like life. :)
You might check out this link -- http://joyfullyrejoycing.com/ -- it has answers to a lot of the questions so many new unschoolers have.
And listen to Dad. See what it is that he actually wants for his son. See how all of you can make that happen.
Nance