Sandra Dodd

Lori Odhner’s writing, today, in Marriage Moats (I’ll link it below). I’ll write a comment separately.
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The phrase Unconditional Love has been around for awhile. Some people hold it as the true litmus test of a relationship.

"You say you love me, but do you love me no matter what??"

The dyads that show up in the wedding ceremony talk about commitment in sickness and in health, for richer and for poorer. We understand, at least in theory, that while love is easier to grant when things are going well, it is the fuel during hard times that sustains us until better days return.

Perhaps women are especially drawn to the idea of unconditional love. They want the reassurance that they will be cherished, even when they behave in less than endearing ways. Because words are often a first language for women, they expect that men are equally facile with flowery expressions of devotion. But for many men, words are more clumsy, like a cattle rancher using chopsticks for the first time.

We were married for three decades before John finally admitted to me that he is uncomfortable with the question, "How are you?" He would much rather answer a question like "Can you fix the computer?" which has an action. A beginning and a completion. Those open ended queries like "How do you feel?" are too nebulous, and with women can go on forever like a train crossing when you are in a hurry.

Women are allowed to ask for, and even demand unconditional love. No one labels them as bossy.

But men too, want devotion that doesn't quit. For many of them, the package that resonates is respect. The book Love and Respect describes a study in which men are asked the impossible question, "Which would you rather, feeling that no one loves you but you are respected or that you are loved but no one respects you?"

Eighty five percent of men said they would rather be without love than respect. For a majority of women, that makes no sense. That is the wrong answer. But only on a woman's terms.

Men have a hard time articulating what their feelings are, which gets in the way of asking for what they need. Yet given a choice like love vs respect, it is less confusing. Men crave unconditional respect.

But even if they can get over the hurdle of pinpointing what they want, in words that women understand, society is not so accepting of that request. The same women who unequivocally say they need unconditional love in order to survive, not as a reward for having earned it, may as quickly say that men must earn respect.

I wonder what will happen when we learn to give it freely.


Love,

Lori
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http://archive.aweber.com/marriagemoats/Eur44/h/Marriage_Moats_No_Matter.htm

Sandra Dodd

ALERT (and thank you, Leah Rose!)

I deleted a post with two typos and this is the same post with an intro and those typos repaired. Because no one responded, it was a problem to delete the first one.

If you read the other one, there were two times I wrote “conditional” instead of “unconditional” and that changes too much. :-)
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Lori Odhner wrote:

-=-The phrase Unconditional Love has been around for awhile. Some people hold it as the true litmus test of a relationship.

"You say you love me, but do you love me no matter what??”-=-


The concept of unconditional love is NOT new. It’s useful. It can also be abused. Part of Lori’s article (if you didn’t read it, check your e-mail or click “Messages in this topic” at the bottom of the mail) suggests that women want to act however they want to and still be loved, while not loving their partners in the way the partners need to be loved (which is to be respected).

So that’s partly a different topic, but not wholly.

Compared to conditional love, which some families have—where kids are controlled by withdrawal or rejection—the idea of unconditional love sounds sweet. But if it’s taken too far into fantasy and used as a slogan to then bully others, the bullying remains.

So if you’re thinking of “unconditional love” as an ideal, go easy on the idea that anyone will “have to” love you, or that you “deserve” to be loved, because that can lead to an ugly place. Even love involves trust and respect after a while.

You should probably love an infant unconditionally.

It’s pretty well known that treating a thieving drug addict or an abusive alcoholic as well as if he were not ruining his own life and others is called can lead to “enabling” in which one becomes an accomplice.

Somewhere in and amongst all that is probably where the idea started, in the 1950’s, with Carl Rogers’ phrase “unconditional positive regard.”
If you’re a big fan of “unconditional love,” consider backing it back to “unconditional positive regard” to help clarify and ground you for the real world.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unconditional_positive_regard

Also, try to respect your male partner if you have one. He’s probably doing some good for you even if it seems like he’s not giving you unconditional love. And the difference between “love” and “respect” is about language anyway. Try to be lovable AND respectable, whether or not you have a partner or an audience, because it makes you a better person. Try to be trustworthy and dependable.

Being a better person will make you a better parent.

“Deserve” is a problem.
http://sandradodd.com/deserve

Sandra

Sandra Dodd

When I re-read this, it occurred to me that people might think I was talking about a spouse, but I was thinking of a teen or grown child (or of a parent, such as my own mom):

-=-It’s pretty well known that treating a thieving drug addict or an abusive alcoholic as well as if he were not ruining his own life and others is called can lead to “enabling” in which one becomes an accomplice.-=-

There are things my kids could do that would lose a bunch of points with me, even though I wasn’t a controlling mom by most people’s measures or definitions, and my “hopes and dreams” for my kids were and are broad and open. Still, if they were to get into life-ruining behaviors I would not want to “unconditionally love” that, nor to enable it.

Sandra

Vicki Dennis

Sandra, thank you for reposting. I *thought* there must have been some typos but wanted to be careful  about my tendency  to make assumptions.
I re-read several  times before seeing  the correcting  post.

Vicki

On Jun 9, 2017 9:44 PM, "Sandra Dodd Sandra@... [AlwaysLearning]" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>  
>
> ALERT (and thank you, Leah Rose!)
>
> I deleted a post with two typos and this is the same post with an intro and those typos repaired. Because no one responded, it was a problem to delete the first one.
>
> If you read the other one, there were two times I wrote “conditional” instead of “unconditional” and that changes too much. :-)
> __________________________________________________________
>
>
> Lori Odhner wrote:
>
> -=-The phrase Unconditional Love has been around for awhile. Some people hold it as the true litmus test of a relationship.
>
> "You say you love me, but do you love me no matter what??”-=-
>
> The concept of unconditional love is NOT new. It’s useful. It can also be abused. Part of Lori’s article (if you didn’t read it, check your e-mail or click “Messages in this topic” at the bottom of the mail) suggests that women want to act however they want to and still be loved, while not loving their partners in the way the partners need to be loved (which is to be respected).
>
> So that’s partly a different topic, but not wholly.
>
> Compared to conditional love, which some families have—where kids are controlled by withdrawal or rejection—the idea of unconditional love sounds sweet. But if it’s taken too far into fantasy and used as a slogan to then bully others, the bullying remains.
>
> So if you’re thinking of “unconditional love” as an ideal, go easy on the idea that anyone will “have to” love you, or that you “deserve” to be loved, because that can lead to an ugly place. Even love involves trust and respect after a while.
>
> You should probably love an infant unconditionally.
>
> It’s pretty well known that treating a thieving drug addict or an abusive alcoholic as well as if he were not ruining his own life and others is called can lead to “enabling” in which one becomes an accomplice.
>
> Somewhere in and amongst all that is probably where the idea started, in the 1950’s, with Carl Rogers’ phrase “unconditional positive regard.”
> If you’re a big fan of “unconditional love,” consider backing it back to “unconditional positive regard” to help clarify and ground you for the real world.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unconditional_positive_regard
>
> Also, try to respect your male partner if you have one. He’s probably doing some good for you even if it seems like he’s not giving you unconditional love. And the difference between “love” and “respect” is about language anyway. Try to be lovable AND respectable, whether or not you have a partner or an audience, because it makes you a better person. Try to be trustworthy and dependable.
>
> Being a better person will make you a better parent.
>
> “Deserve” is a problem.
> http://sandradodd.com/deserve
>
> Sandra
>
>