Career ideas
Ali Zeljo
My 17 year old son is wondering if there are any careers that match up with his passion/talent.
Since early childhood, he is a collector. He has moved through different items, but it is always a similar style of collecting. He loves to go through tons of one thing looking for the rare and valuable ones.
The past 8 months have been coins. He has filtered through thousands of coins. He has amazing stamina for this kind of work! And he knows so many details about coins, metals, etc. He spends 3-5 hours per day doing this work, driving to banks, picking up a couple hundred pounds of coins, dumping rejected coins in machines, and back home to sift again.
This came up last night in talking about classes. He has started taking a couple classes at a community college. He thinks a class description sounds interesting, but then once he is sitting in class, he has a hard time keeping himself interested enough to pay attention to lecture. Same goes for the reading he is assigned. He finds that his mind wanders while he is reading and then he can't remember a thing from the chapter. He was wishing he could learn to be as passionate about class readings as coins, so that he could learn the material more easily. He said he thought he was not good at learning based on these class experiences.
It got us thinking about this skill he has honed. I wondered if he will look back one day and say, all those years collecting rare Lego minifigs and selling them, or sifting through millions of coins... those skills I developed made ____ work possible.
I thought maybe this group of thinkers might come up with ideas other than open up a coin shop, which is a possibility for a career for him. I was thinking scientists often filter through tons of data looking for something meaningful. Any other ideas?
Thanks!!
Ali
Since early childhood, he is a collector. He has moved through different items, but it is always a similar style of collecting. He loves to go through tons of one thing looking for the rare and valuable ones.
The past 8 months have been coins. He has filtered through thousands of coins. He has amazing stamina for this kind of work! And he knows so many details about coins, metals, etc. He spends 3-5 hours per day doing this work, driving to banks, picking up a couple hundred pounds of coins, dumping rejected coins in machines, and back home to sift again.
This came up last night in talking about classes. He has started taking a couple classes at a community college. He thinks a class description sounds interesting, but then once he is sitting in class, he has a hard time keeping himself interested enough to pay attention to lecture. Same goes for the reading he is assigned. He finds that his mind wanders while he is reading and then he can't remember a thing from the chapter. He was wishing he could learn to be as passionate about class readings as coins, so that he could learn the material more easily. He said he thought he was not good at learning based on these class experiences.
It got us thinking about this skill he has honed. I wondered if he will look back one day and say, all those years collecting rare Lego minifigs and selling them, or sifting through millions of coins... those skills I developed made ____ work possible.
I thought maybe this group of thinkers might come up with ideas other than open up a coin shop, which is a possibility for a career for him. I was thinking scientists often filter through tons of data looking for something meaningful. Any other ideas?
Thanks!!
Ali
Sarah Thompson
When my husband was in college, he had a professor who gave him a wonderful piece of career advice. Remember that this is in the context of traditional schooling, so in and of itself not an unschooling recommendation, but something I have found incredibly value in observing and thinking about learning.
She said, don't think about what you like to *think about,* for a minute. Think about what you like to do, physically, with your body. What is it that makes you feel engaged? Where are you happy? When your wheels are turning best, or you are most at peace, or whatever feels right to you, what is your body doing at that moment? Are you running? Hauling buckets? Typing? Reading? Lying in a field? Counting periwinkles in a population grid? Something like the latter might make a lot of sense for a collector:)
Whatever path you choose, recognize where the opportunities are greatest for you to do that type of work.
I liked that a lot.
Sarah
My 17 year old son is wondering if there are any careers that match up with his passion/talent.
Since early childhood, he is a collector. He has moved through different items, but it is always a similar style of collecting. He loves to go through tons of one thing looking for the rare and valuable ones.
The past 8 months have been coins. He has filtered through thousands of coins. He has amazing stamina for this kind of work! And he knows so many details about coins, metals, etc. He spends 3-5 hours per day doing this work, driving to banks, picking up a couple hundred pounds of coins, dumping rejected coins in machines, and back home to sift again.
This came up last night in talking about classes. He has started taking a couple classes at a community college. He thinks a class description sounds interesting, but then once he is sitting in class, he has a hard time keeping himself interested enough to pay attention to lecture. Same goes for the reading he is assigned. He finds that his mind wanders while he is reading and then he can't remember a thing from the chapter. He was wishing he could learn to be as passionate about class readings as coins, so that he could learn the material more easily. He said he thought he was not good at learning based on these class experiences.
It got us thinking about this skill he has honed. I wondered if he will look back one day and say, all those years collecting rare Lego minifigs and selling them, or sifting through millions of coins... those skills I developed made ____ work possible.
I thought maybe this group of thinkers might come up with ideas other than open up a coin shop, which is a possibility for a career for him. I was thinking scientists often filter through tons of data looking for something meaningful. Any other ideas?
Thanks!!
Ali
Sandra Dodd
-=- Remember that this is in the context of traditional schooling, so in and of itself not an unschooling recommendation-=-
I have one to add from a Korean Drama called “Healer”: Make the thing you love most your hobby, and your second-favorite thing your career.
“Having” to do something might take the joy out of it.
Sandra
I have one to add from a Korean Drama called “Healer”: Make the thing you love most your hobby, and your second-favorite thing your career.
“Having” to do something might take the joy out of it.
Sandra
belinda dutch
I'm wondering what these 'sorting' skills really are. What is it about the sorting he really enjoys? For example is it finding the unnusual ones? Is it creating order out of chaos? Is it valuing/selling/trading? Is it tactile or intellectual? What is the essence of his excitement? I ask because you say this passion has been applied to many things over the years.
And do you think this could apply to intangible stuff such as data?
Its interesting to think about, but i'm wondering if this is getting ahead of yourselves. Does he need to think in these terms yet? Isnt it ok to enjoy his passions and see where they lead? Enable him in looking for opportunities which fit, whether they have obvious career connections or not. He really is quite young to be career planning. Lots of schooled children are jumping through college hoops at his age but still have no passion or interest they can pinpoint to a career. They are only thinking about it because they are told to. And then they end up in jobs they dont like!
His negative experiences at college may have given him a big feeling of 'ought to be thinking about career' , panic.
He might start stacking shelves. He might love all the sorting! And then realise he wants to do something different and then take the classes because he desperately wants to for a reason rather than they 'sound interesting'.
Keep the joy in the passion :-)
Best wishes,
Belinda
And do you think this could apply to intangible stuff such as data?
Its interesting to think about, but i'm wondering if this is getting ahead of yourselves. Does he need to think in these terms yet? Isnt it ok to enjoy his passions and see where they lead? Enable him in looking for opportunities which fit, whether they have obvious career connections or not. He really is quite young to be career planning. Lots of schooled children are jumping through college hoops at his age but still have no passion or interest they can pinpoint to a career. They are only thinking about it because they are told to. And then they end up in jobs they dont like!
His negative experiences at college may have given him a big feeling of 'ought to be thinking about career' , panic.
He might start stacking shelves. He might love all the sorting! And then realise he wants to do something different and then take the classes because he desperately wants to for a reason rather than they 'sound interesting'.
Keep the joy in the passion :-)
Best wishes,
Belinda
Sandra Dodd
-=-I'm wondering what these 'sorting' skills really are. What is it about the sorting he really enjoys? For example is it finding the unnusual ones? Is it creating order out of chaos? Is it valuing/selling/trading? Is it tactile or intellectual? What is the essence of his excitement? I ask because you say this passion has been applied to many things over the years. -=-
Sorting skills are Howard Gardner’s “nature intelligence.”
http://sandradodd.com/intelligences
There was a chat on this topic last year and there’s a published transcript:
http://chattranscripts.blogspot.com/2016/06/nature-intelligence-june-23-2016.html
If anyone goes and reads that and finds good parts worth quoting back here, please feel free to bring some of it to this discussion. :-)
Sandra
Sorting skills are Howard Gardner’s “nature intelligence.”
http://sandradodd.com/intelligences
There was a chat on this topic last year and there’s a published transcript:
http://chattranscripts.blogspot.com/2016/06/nature-intelligence-june-23-2016.html
If anyone goes and reads that and finds good parts worth quoting back here, please feel free to bring some of it to this discussion. :-)
Sandra
Sandra Dodd
Belinda wrote something I wish I had written:
-=-Its interesting to think about, but i'm wondering if this is getting ahead of yourselves. Does he need to think in these terms yet? Isnt it ok to enjoy his passions and see where they lead? Enable him in looking for opportunities which fit, whether they have obvious career connections or not. He really is quite young to be career planning. Lots of schooled children are jumping through college hoops at his age but still have no passion or interest they can pinpoint to a career. They are only thinking about it because they are told to. And then they end up in jobs they dont like! -=-
Yes. “What do you want to be when you grow up?” is an irritating and harmful question. Many people are unhappy in careers they chose when they were seven, or twelve, or eighteen.
Real-world work experience is WAY more valuable than “career counselling,” whether it’s by school officials or college counsellors or well-meaning parents.
Sandra
-=-Its interesting to think about, but i'm wondering if this is getting ahead of yourselves. Does he need to think in these terms yet? Isnt it ok to enjoy his passions and see where they lead? Enable him in looking for opportunities which fit, whether they have obvious career connections or not. He really is quite young to be career planning. Lots of schooled children are jumping through college hoops at his age but still have no passion or interest they can pinpoint to a career. They are only thinking about it because they are told to. And then they end up in jobs they dont like! -=-
Yes. “What do you want to be when you grow up?” is an irritating and harmful question. Many people are unhappy in careers they chose when they were seven, or twelve, or eighteen.
Real-world work experience is WAY more valuable than “career counselling,” whether it’s by school officials or college counsellors or well-meaning parents.
Sandra
semajrak@...
***It got us thinking about this skill he has honed. I wondered if he will look back one day and say, all those years collecting rare Lego minifigs and selling them, or sifting through millions of coins... those skills I developed made ____ work possible.***
Don't let nostalgia get in the way of making meaningful choices. The most important skills he hones might be much broader than those specific ones you've named. From what you've described, he seems to have a deep love of diving in to a challenge. He also seems to have an unwavering ability to focus on something that captures his imagination. These skills will make many pursuits possible if he isn't searching too narrowly.
Don't let nostalgia get in the way of making meaningful choices. The most important skills he hones might be much broader than those specific ones you've named. From what you've described, he seems to have a deep love of diving in to a challenge. He also seems to have an unwavering ability to focus on something that captures his imagination. These skills will make many pursuits possible if he isn't searching too narrowly.
Perhaps he can start a business now, selling rare finds, and see where that takes him. Perhaps he can take an online business class too. Start where he is now. Move forward from here. Don't look too far ahead, trying to draw lines between now and the future, because you might find the lines trace back more like tree branches than roads. Or they might indeed be fairly straight forward. But let it happen naturally. Like finding one rare coin in pounds of ordinary ones, it's the hunt for the yet unknown that's the exciting part.
Karen James
Sam
This is so helpful, and so simple! A great idea to reflect on for those (of any age!) perhaps at a new crossroads in their lives."I have one to add from a Korean Drama called “Healer”: Make the thing you love most your hobby, and your second-favorite thing your career.
“Having” to do something might take the joy out of it."Sam
Alex & Brian Polikowsky
There careers like museums collections curator, auctioneers, movie/tV producers ( there are other field that need producers) , archeologists, fuels scientists, buyers,
Those just the top of my head!!!
Is he in College because he has a goal? Because just going because he thinks he needs to without a goal or a real interest for those classes can be boring. It could also be those classes/teachers are boring too!
Alex Polikowsky
Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 26, 2017, at 12:46 PM, Sam rainmountain1@... [AlwaysLearning] <[email protected]> wrote:
This is so helpful, and so simple! A great idea to reflect on for those (of any age!) perhaps at a new crossroads in their lives."I have one to add from a Korean Drama called “Healer”: Make the thing you love most your hobby, and your second-favorite thing your career.
“Having” to do something might take the joy out of it."Sam
Ali Zeljo
I'm wondering what these 'sorting' skills really are. What is it about the sorting he really enjoys? For example is it finding the unnusual ones? Is it creating order out of chaos? Is it valuing/selling/trading? Is it tactile or intellectual? What is the essence of his excitement? I ask because you say this passion has been applied to many things over the years.
With coins so far, it is the treasure hunt! It is definitely NOT creating order out of chaos. His bedroom is the most chaotic place in the house, coin papers strewn everywhere, coin boxes piled to the ceiling, coins covering every surface. It is quite an amazing site actually!! But there is a big component that has to do with valuing/selling/trading. So far he has 30 pounds of copper pennies that he told me he is saving to sell when the value of copper rises. He always knows the value of the coins that he finds and he checks in on the current value or copper and silver regularly. When it was Lego, at first it was collecting and trading the minifigures, knowing which ones were particularly rare. Then he began selling them on a Bricklink website in his own online store. Before Lego, he liked to examine basketballs and collect different kinds based on grip style, writing, color, etc and he definitely ranked those by his perception of rareness also.
And do you think this could apply to intangible stuff such as data?I do think that for him, it already has applied to data, through computer games. He loves playing with simulators that let you gamble with lottery type situations, but without paying for risk with real money.
Its interesting to think about, but i'm wondering if this is getting ahead of yourselves. Does he need to think in these terms yet?No, he definitely does not NEED to think in these terms. It just came up in conversation. It came up because of this experiment of trying community college. Many other homeschoolers he knows are doing this program where the state pays for you to go to community college. He decided to give it a try. He has never been to school in his life. So this is his first exposure to a text book and a teacher. Last semester he tried a history class. He is interested in history in general, but then after the course, he determined that while the history itself is interesting, he really does not enjoy reading textbooks about history, and especially really did not enjoy writing papers about it. He enjoyed hearing what the professor had to say, but he did not want to read or write about it.
He wanted to try a science this semester. He wanted chemistry, but he didn't have the math level to take chemistry, so he decided on biology. It is a pretty intense class. He wants to do well but he is having a hard time with the reading and the lectures. I've been talking with him about his learning style and figuring out strategies that work best for him. It isn't that I am pushing him to pick a career right now. Instead, he is making the connection that when he is passionate about it, he learns minute details about the subject easily. But when it isn't coming from within, he starts to get very tired and his brain shuts down. I do think he is wondering how on earth he will get through 4 years of college to get a degree in something at this rate. He has the expectation that he will get a college degree and I think that is why he is starting down this path. He is interested in knowing how many courses he needs to take to get a degree. But he is not loving all of it. It does bring up lots of questions.I don't want to suggest to him to quit just because he doesn't enjoy it so far. I am helping him immensely with the biology course, helping him read the text, showing him what I would write down as notes to study later, explaining concepts to him. He has never mentioned quitting. I have been telling him stories about people I know who have fulfilling and lucrative careers without degrees, so that he knows that is an option. We talk to lots of people about how they ended up in the careers they are in. It has led to many interesting conversations. Everyone on both sides of his family has PhD, JD or masters degrees. I don't want him to think that because he doesn't have experience with how to do school-type studying and didn't get used to the monotony of jumping through hoops to get a degree, that he's at a disadvantage. He does not know how to be a diligent student. He is, by nature, not an organized person. He throws important papers in amidst the coin roll scraps in his room and forgets about them. When I ask if he wants help organizing a notebook to keep track of the papers from class, he always says yes. It is really difficult for him to do without significant help. I have been looking at all the help that we are giving him as part of his process of learning how to be a student at school. It is not much like the type of learning he is used to living (in the wild). I'm not even sure much of it is learning about the topics he is studying! I'm surprised that it seems very much like school as I remember it-- figuring out what you need to do or know to pass the class and doing just that. I wonder how long he will continue to take these courses.Thanks for the discussion!Ali
Ali Zeljo
I had not realized this. This is very cool. Nicky (my 17 year old son we are talking about) spends 2 days per week outside all day in a primitive skills nature program. He has been in it since he was 7 and adores it. He just got hired as a counselor for them for summer camps next summer. This is a really neat connection to make! I just read your chat transcript about this type of intelligence. I am excited to share this with him! Thank you!Sorting skills are Howard Gardner’s “nature intelligence.”
http://sandradodd.com/ intelligences
Sandra Dodd
-=-I don't want to suggest to him to quit just because he doesn't enjoy it so far. -=-
Perhaps you should.
Maybe not “suggest,” but to state it gently as an option.
School kills the desire to learn, in many people. In most, perhaps. It’s not too late for him to have his curiosity damaged, or his expansiveness narrowed.
-=- Everyone on both sides of his family has PhD, JD or masters degrees. I don't want him to think that because he doesn't have experience with how to do school-type studying and didn't get used to the monotony of jumping through hoops to get a degree, that he's at a disadvantage. -=-
But he IS at a disadvantage. They built up to it with years of schooling, and probably saw it as the last few years of confinement and helplessness before they could earn options. He is going from options tocontrol and it must not feel very good.
And he is at a disadvantage because of the family situation and expectations, which would make “being a diligent student” a virtue.
-=-He is, by nature, not an organized person. -=-
I’m not either. I accomplish lots, and always have, but I leave scraps and notes and print-outs and artwork and supplies and… It’s not a sin, and shouldn’t be considered inferior to those who have a clean desk every day. Some of them are productive too, but some spend a lot of time cleaning their desks.
-=- It is really difficult for him to do without significant help. I have been looking at all the help that we are giving him as part of his process of learning how to be a student at school. -=-
It will help both of you, all of you, to look at that help as what you’re doing as an unschooling parent, as part of his process of learning how to live in the world.
-=- It is not much like the type of learning he is used to living (in the wild). I'm not even sure much of it is learning about the topics he is studying! -=-
It seems from your writing that you’re still looking at school and schoolishness at every turn. When parents don’g deschool enough to see the world in a very different way, they can’t accept non-schoolish things with real enthusiasm and appreciation, and without that, unschooling can fail.
Sandra
Perhaps you should.
Maybe not “suggest,” but to state it gently as an option.
School kills the desire to learn, in many people. In most, perhaps. It’s not too late for him to have his curiosity damaged, or his expansiveness narrowed.
-=- Everyone on both sides of his family has PhD, JD or masters degrees. I don't want him to think that because he doesn't have experience with how to do school-type studying and didn't get used to the monotony of jumping through hoops to get a degree, that he's at a disadvantage. -=-
But he IS at a disadvantage. They built up to it with years of schooling, and probably saw it as the last few years of confinement and helplessness before they could earn options. He is going from options tocontrol and it must not feel very good.
And he is at a disadvantage because of the family situation and expectations, which would make “being a diligent student” a virtue.
-=-He is, by nature, not an organized person. -=-
I’m not either. I accomplish lots, and always have, but I leave scraps and notes and print-outs and artwork and supplies and… It’s not a sin, and shouldn’t be considered inferior to those who have a clean desk every day. Some of them are productive too, but some spend a lot of time cleaning their desks.
-=- It is really difficult for him to do without significant help. I have been looking at all the help that we are giving him as part of his process of learning how to be a student at school. -=-
It will help both of you, all of you, to look at that help as what you’re doing as an unschooling parent, as part of his process of learning how to live in the world.
-=- It is not much like the type of learning he is used to living (in the wild). I'm not even sure much of it is learning about the topics he is studying! -=-
It seems from your writing that you’re still looking at school and schoolishness at every turn. When parents don’g deschool enough to see the world in a very different way, they can’t accept non-schoolish things with real enthusiasm and appreciation, and without that, unschooling can fail.
Sandra
Ali Zeljo
>It seems from your writing that you’re still looking at school and schoolishness at every turn. When parents don’g deschool enough to see the world in a very different way, they can’t accept non-schoolish things with real enthusiasm and appreciation, and without that, unschooling can fail.
Yes I think you are right. I have had a difficult time sliding back into schoolishness in the past year. Two of my sons decided to try schoolish-type things. My 13 year old asked to use a full curriculum that some of his friends were using because he wanted to catch up with his peers and go to high school and play sports. He wanted me to be with him for every moment of doing the curriculum, which was challenging since I have 4 children. I went into that project with the attitude that this was his choice and that he could choose how to do the work assigned. He did not register with the county or anything, so there was no one tracking his progress except himself. After about 3 weeks of working through it, he decided it was entirely too boring and he was going to go read the Harry Potter series again and then figure out what to do. That was four months ago and he's back to doing his own thing.
With my older son, it is much more intense because there are teachers and grades and tons of expectations for work completed. Perhaps I have approached it with a schoolish attitude and that has contributed to his difficult times. Also, he is often asked by school administrators what his career path is. I think that must be a stressful environment where he has pressure to choose a major and already know his career plans.
Thanks for the discussion. I have a lot of further pondering to do. My goal has been to get him through these classes and I need to think that through more.
Ali
Ali Zeljo
schooling, and probably saw it as the last few years of confinement and helplessness >before they could earn options. He is going from options to control and it must not feel very good.>But he IS at a disadvantage. They built up to it with years of
This is also something that has come up a lot this year for one of my kids. My 13 year old has expressed anger that he has to do SO much work to catch up with peers in math and writing. He has felt embarrassed by lack of academic experience. He refers to himself as "uneducated" and has commented to his younger brothers who are 6 & 8 that they should stop playing Minecraft all day and start doing math now while they still have the chance to not fall so far behind.
I am able to balance his words with examples of how they are learning math through playing Minecraft and other games and they are progressing happily, and examples of all the things they are able to do and learn because they have unstructured time and parents who are supporting their interests instead of being in school all day on a curriculum. But have you said what bothers him and lately me too? By unschooling, am I making it more difficult for my children to earn high school, college or higher degrees? Am I pushing them toward other paths? And is there anything wrong with that? Theoretically, if unschooling were helping them find a passion that does not need a degree, then wonderful. But if one child wants to earn a degree, but feels the task is just too big of a hurdle to cross because he has not taken all the baby steps to get him there, is that having served that child's best interests?
I am able to balance his words with examples of how they are learning math through playing Minecraft and other games and they are progressing happily, and examples of all the things they are able to do and learn because they have unstructured time and parents who are supporting their interests instead of being in school all day on a curriculum. But have you said what bothers him and lately me too? By unschooling, am I making it more difficult for my children to earn high school, college or higher degrees? Am I pushing them toward other paths? And is there anything wrong with that? Theoretically, if unschooling were helping them find a passion that does not need a degree, then wonderful. But if one child wants to earn a degree, but feels the task is just too big of a hurdle to cross because he has not taken all the baby steps to get him there, is that having served that child's best interests?
Ali
Sandra Dodd
-=-Also, he is often asked by school administrators what his career path is. -=-
Give him suggestions for an answer so he won’t feel like a deer in the headlights.
“I haven’t decided.”
“I’m still exploring.:
“I don’t have one yet.”
“I’m taking classes that interest me to see if something jumps out."
Give him suggestions for an answer so he won’t feel like a deer in the headlights.
“I haven’t decided.”
“I’m still exploring.:
“I don’t have one yet.”
“I’m taking classes that interest me to see if something jumps out."
Sandra Dodd
-=-My 13 year old has expressed anger that he has to do SO much work to catch up with peers in math and writing.-=-
At 13, he shouldn’t be looking at work, or math, or writing, or “peers.” Unschooled peers?
If he has been going along comparing himself to other kids his age for seven years, unshooling can’t be working well.
-=- He refers to himself as “uneducated”-=-
Was he in school for a while? Does he have a parent or grandparents who are opposed to unschooling?
-=-and has commented to his younger brothers who are 6 & 8 that they should stop playing Minecraft all day and start doing math now while they still have the chance to not fall so far behind.
-=-
Is there someone doing to him what you say hie is doing to his younger brothers?
Don’t let him do that. Don’t “balance his words.” Protect your children from damaging pressure from others, even from each other, if you can do it.
-=- By unschooling, am I making it more difficult for my children to earn... college or higher degrees? -=-
NO. Many unschoolers have earned college degrees and done exceptionally well at universities because they were not beat down by thirteen years in the classroom, but were interested and filled with trivia that was just about to turn to KNOWLEDGE. But that is if unschooling is preserved, maintained and is flourishing.
-=- By unschooling, am I making it more difficult for my children to earn high school, college or higher degrees? -=-
High school? He’s 13. If you have been planning to put him in high school, it’s about time.
Lots of unschoolers have gone to school for a while and come back home.
I think there’s something going on besides great unschooling, if he’s angry and you’re asking about high school.
-=-Am I pushing them toward other paths? And is there anything wrong with that?
I hope you’re not pushing them. I hope you’re living a rich full life with them, not leaving them to try to do it on their own.
-=-Theoretically, if unschooling were helping them find a passion that does not need a degree, then wonderful. -=-
#1, don’t look for “a passion that does not need a degree.” Look for learning and peace. Provide that. http://sandradodd.com/nest
#2, “Theoretically…” If unschooling is theoretical for you and it’s not working, make changes to help it work. If reading the easily available materials you can get to from this isn’t working, consider getting help, maybe, from Marji Zintz or Amy Childs or someone.
Look here first:
http://sandradodd.com/help
And links to contact for the two above are here:
http://sandradodd.com/issues/therapy but I hope you don’t need that.
-=-But if one child wants to earn a degree, but feels the task is just too big of a hurdle to cross because he has not taken all the baby steps to get him there, is that having served that child's best interests?—=-
Baby steps to university are provided free in public schools. We didn’t keep you from putting your children in school. But unschooling should be bigger and better than school, or kids should be in school.
Sandra
At 13, he shouldn’t be looking at work, or math, or writing, or “peers.” Unschooled peers?
If he has been going along comparing himself to other kids his age for seven years, unshooling can’t be working well.
-=- He refers to himself as “uneducated”-=-
Was he in school for a while? Does he have a parent or grandparents who are opposed to unschooling?
-=-and has commented to his younger brothers who are 6 & 8 that they should stop playing Minecraft all day and start doing math now while they still have the chance to not fall so far behind.
-=-
Is there someone doing to him what you say hie is doing to his younger brothers?
Don’t let him do that. Don’t “balance his words.” Protect your children from damaging pressure from others, even from each other, if you can do it.
-=- By unschooling, am I making it more difficult for my children to earn... college or higher degrees? -=-
NO. Many unschoolers have earned college degrees and done exceptionally well at universities because they were not beat down by thirteen years in the classroom, but were interested and filled with trivia that was just about to turn to KNOWLEDGE. But that is if unschooling is preserved, maintained and is flourishing.
-=- By unschooling, am I making it more difficult for my children to earn high school, college or higher degrees? -=-
High school? He’s 13. If you have been planning to put him in high school, it’s about time.
Lots of unschoolers have gone to school for a while and come back home.
I think there’s something going on besides great unschooling, if he’s angry and you’re asking about high school.
-=-Am I pushing them toward other paths? And is there anything wrong with that?
I hope you’re not pushing them. I hope you’re living a rich full life with them, not leaving them to try to do it on their own.
-=-Theoretically, if unschooling were helping them find a passion that does not need a degree, then wonderful. -=-
#1, don’t look for “a passion that does not need a degree.” Look for learning and peace. Provide that. http://sandradodd.com/nest
#2, “Theoretically…” If unschooling is theoretical for you and it’s not working, make changes to help it work. If reading the easily available materials you can get to from this isn’t working, consider getting help, maybe, from Marji Zintz or Amy Childs or someone.
Look here first:
http://sandradodd.com/help
And links to contact for the two above are here:
http://sandradodd.com/issues/therapy but I hope you don’t need that.
-=-But if one child wants to earn a degree, but feels the task is just too big of a hurdle to cross because he has not taken all the baby steps to get him there, is that having served that child's best interests?—=-
Baby steps to university are provided free in public schools. We didn’t keep you from putting your children in school. But unschooling should be bigger and better than school, or kids should be in school.
Sandra
semajrak@...
***But if one child wants to earn a degree, but feels the task is just too big of a hurdle to cross because he has not taken all the baby steps to get him there, is that having served that child's best interests?***
What if, instead of earning a degree, your child wanted to spend four years exploring the world? If the child had not taken a lifetime of baby steps to prepare for that, how would you help them? What if the child wanted to spend four years at sea? Four years planning and building their own house? Four years researching for and making a documentary?
There are many things one can decide to do that takes preparation for getting started and involves making a lot mistakes and having some frustrating learning opportunities to start. If a person really wants to pursue something, they will carry on past that to learn to be proficient and possibly excel beyond their own expectations. Generally there is an understanding that it might be tricky in the beginning of any new pursuit. I feel like unschoolers might be especially well equipped to understand and embrace that reality. They also might better understand that if it's not something that really appeals to them--if the effort isn't worth the reward--they can move on to find and try other things.
Karen James
Karen James
Sarah Thompson
In economics, there is a concept called "opportunity cost." It refers to the choices foregone when the highest priority is selected. Sometimes, the opportunity cost can lead to buyer's remorse, when a person suddenly wishes they had reserved the resources allocated to the first choice to the second choice instead. I don't think anyone is immune to that, no matter how they spend their childhood.
I grew up in New England but I never learned to downhill ski. It was expensive and I didn't like sports and my parents didn't ski, so it just didn't happen. I went through a period in my teens where I was really mad at my mom for not "making me" go to skiing lessons. I hadn't wanted to take the time to learn to ski, but I was mad that I didn't magically know how to ski without doing the work. There have been a few times in my life when I have thought, gee, I wish I could ski, but I know that if I *really* wanted to ski, I could go take lessons. As an adult, I have been pleased to realize that it's never too late to learn something I want to learn. I can't remember whether it was here or on some other list where one of the contributors was talking about how the idea that we can't learn as well after a certain age is a really poisonous thought to hold onto, because it makes us feel a sense of urgency or helplessness that there is going to be a magic window that closes and we won't ever be able to learn something really new.On Sat, Jan 28, 2017 at 5:11 PM, semajrak@... [AlwaysLearning] <[email protected]> wrote:***But if one child wants to earn a degree, but feels the task is just too big of a hurdle to cross because he has not taken all the baby steps to get him there, is that having served that child's best interests?***
What if, instead of earning a degree, your child wanted to spend four years exploring the world? If the child had not taken a lifetime of baby steps to prepare for that, how would you help them? What if the child wanted to spend four years at sea? Four years planning and building their own house? Four years researching for and making a documentary?There are many things one can decide to do that takes preparation for getting started and involves making a lot mistakes and having some frustrating learning opportunities to start. If a person really wants to pursue something, they will carry on past that to learn to be proficient and possibly excel beyond their own expectations. Generally there is an understanding that it might be tricky in the beginning of any new pursuit. I feel like unschoolers might be especially well equipped to understand and embrace that reality. They also might better understand that if it's not something that really appeals to them--if the effort isn't worth the reward--they can move on to find and try other things.
Karen James
Sarah Thompson
There's one thing I don't like about that post. "Doing the work" sounds like some burden to be endured. I should have written "without actually *doing* it," or something more positive.
On Sat, Jan 28, 2017 at 5:28 PM, Sarah Thompson <thompsonisland@...> wrote:SarahSometimes my kids get frustrated that they don't already know how to do something. Most of the time, it is a passing thing - they experiment with it for a while and then move on. Once in a while, it really clicks and they dig in and get through the steep curve at the beginning. Maybe just helping a child get through the steep curve if they ask for help, or even taking on something new and hard yourself at the same time to be a partner in that particular phase of learning, can help them see that there's never a point that you have all the tools already - there are always more to gather. And maybe pointing out all the wonderful things they have in their lives because they weren't focused on basic math when tsunamis or Atlantis or Minecraft were more interesting, can help support them in the ongoing maturation process?In economics, there is a concept called "opportunity cost." It refers to the choices foregone when the highest priority is selected. Sometimes, the opportunity cost can lead to buyer's remorse, when a person suddenly wishes they had reserved the resources allocated to the first choice to the second choice instead. I don't think anyone is immune to that, no matter how they spend their childhood.I grew up in New England but I never learned to downhill ski. It was expensive and I didn't like sports and my parents didn't ski, so it just didn't happen. I went through a period in my teens where I was really mad at my mom for not "making me" go to skiing lessons. I hadn't wanted to take the time to learn to ski, but I was mad that I didn't magically know how to ski without doing the work. There have been a few times in my life when I have thought, gee, I wish I could ski, but I know that if I *really* wanted to ski, I could go take lessons. As an adult, I have been pleased to realize that it's never too late to learn something I want to learn. I can't remember whether it was here or on some other list where one of the contributors was talking about how the idea that we can't learn as well after a certain age is a really poisonous thought to hold onto, because it makes us feel a sense of urgency or helplessness that there is going to be a magic window that closes and we won't ever be able to learn something really new.On Sat, Jan 28, 2017 at 5:11 PM, semajrak@... [AlwaysLearning] <AlwaysLearning@yahoogroups. com> wrote:***But if one child wants to earn a degree, but feels the task is just too big of a hurdle to cross because he has not taken all the baby steps to get him there, is that having served that child's best interests?***
What if, instead of earning a degree, your child wanted to spend four years exploring the world? If the child had not taken a lifetime of baby steps to prepare for that, how would you help them? What if the child wanted to spend four years at sea? Four years planning and building their own house? Four years researching for and making a documentary?There are many things one can decide to do that takes preparation for getting started and involves making a lot mistakes and having some frustrating learning opportunities to start. If a person really wants to pursue something, they will carry on past that to learn to be proficient and possibly excel beyond their own expectations. Generally there is an understanding that it might be tricky in the beginning of any new pursuit. I feel like unschoolers might be especially well equipped to understand and embrace that reality. They also might better understand that if it's not something that really appeals to them--if the effort isn't worth the reward--they can move on to find and try other things.
Karen James
semajrak@...
***I don't want to suggest to him to quit just because he doesn't enjoy it so far.***
Our son took piano lessons for a year and a half when he was younger. He loved it to start, but he started to find it becoming tedious and uninteresting. I actually suggested he stop, but he didn't want to. He carried on a bit longer. Then, one afternoon, while we were meeting his dad for lunch, Ethan asked if he could quit piano. I was so relieved. I could see he felt uneasy about this decision to quit. I think he was worried about letting us down. I *had* been pretty excited about his playing--probably more than I should have been. I think I was unwittingly putting pressure on him to continue for me. I felt bad about that possibility, and reassured him that I fully supported his choice. I took lessons myself after that. I continued them for another year and a half before I, too, quit.
Our son took piano lessons for a year and a half when he was younger. He loved it to start, but he started to find it becoming tedious and uninteresting. I actually suggested he stop, but he didn't want to. He carried on a bit longer. Then, one afternoon, while we were meeting his dad for lunch, Ethan asked if he could quit piano. I was so relieved. I could see he felt uneasy about this decision to quit. I think he was worried about letting us down. I *had* been pretty excited about his playing--probably more than I should have been. I think I was unwittingly putting pressure on him to continue for me. I felt bad about that possibility, and reassured him that I fully supported his choice. I took lessons myself after that. I continued them for another year and a half before I, too, quit.
Perhaps it would be a good idea to reassure your son that it's okay with you that he quit school for now. It might let him know that you are not so invested in his going to school. It will let him choose to go for himself, if that's what he wants to do. It will free him from the pressure of going for someone else, if he's unconsciously (or consciously) choosing to continue to go for you or anyone else he cares to please.
Karen James
Karen James
Sandra Dodd
Also, unschoolers who have stepped away from the conveyor belt and schedule of school years and ages could relax about *when* a child goes to college, if at all. My middle son is a junior at the University of New Mexico, studying Economics. He’s 28. We’re paying for it, for him. If one of our other kids wants to go to school, we’ll pay for that too. The interest gained on having had dthat money in savings (CDs, bonds) is probably better than student loan interest, too. Had we pressured any of them to go to college at 18, they wouldn’t have known what they wanted to do, might have wasted time and money, and been in debt (they would be, or we might be).
If you think of learning in and about the world, that can go on for years, for life, and along the way there might be jobs from which learning will come, too. My kids have all learned tons on various jobs.
Sandra
If you think of learning in and about the world, that can go on for years, for life, and along the way there might be jobs from which learning will come, too. My kids have all learned tons on various jobs.
Sandra
Sandra Dodd
-=-I can't remember whether it was here or on some other list where one of the contributors was talking about how the idea that we can't learn as well after a certain age is a really poisonous thought to hold onto, because it makes us feel a sense of urgency or helplessness that there is going to be a magic window that closes and we won't ever be able to learn something really new.-=-
Part of that is about birth control. In the absence of legal birth control (whether in time, or in locale), once people are married, they’re likely to have a baby, that means some opportunitites are shut down for a while. If a family wanted to help a son, especially, to be able to be a responsible father and husband, he needed to have a career before he got married. Many things are different now. Lots of things have changed, and it gives us all, older parents, young adults, teens, many more options.
Sandra
Part of that is about birth control. In the absence of legal birth control (whether in time, or in locale), once people are married, they’re likely to have a baby, that means some opportunitites are shut down for a while. If a family wanted to help a son, especially, to be able to be a responsible father and husband, he needed to have a career before he got married. Many things are different now. Lots of things have changed, and it gives us all, older parents, young adults, teens, many more options.
Sandra
Ali Zeljo
On Sat, Jan 28, 2017 at 2:56 PM, Sandra Dodd Sandra@... [AlwaysLearning] <[email protected]> wrote:
Ever since joining these teams, he has become interested in what it would be like to be part of a school crowd. A lot of the boys on his baseball team talk about having girlfriends, and for a little while, he decided to try out dating a girl who was a friend of a friend. He went to movies and out to meals on dates. Then he decided that he wasn't ready for that kind of thing and broke it off. Kids ask him things like what is your favorite subject, where are you going to high school? He has developed answers to these questions that make him feel comfortable socially, but he still questions these things himself, at home, with me. >At 13, he shouldn’t be looking at work, or math, or writing, or “peers.” Unschooled peers?Thank you for this discussion. I can understand that most 13 year old unschoolers wouldn't be looking at work, math, writing or peers. His older brother definitely was not at that age. But Will certainly is!! He has never been to school. He is a highly driven kid. He loves playing basketball and baseball. He joined a higher level team for each sport about 2 years ago. He is the only unschooler on either team, there is 1 school-at-home kid on one of the teams. Since joining these teams, these issues have surfaced. The coaches tell the kids they are preparing them for high school sports. Will is playing because he loves playing with kids who love playing as much as he does. He loves the challenge. His favorite thing is to push his body further than he thought possible. He does not have to attend high school to play sports on a high school team here in Colorado. I have explained to him that we can continue to unschool and he can try out for local high school teams anyway.
Is there someone doing to him what you say he is doing to his younger brothers?
Don’t let him do that. Don’t “balance his words.” Protect your children from damaging pressure from others, even from each other, if you can do it.I do not think anyone is saying this type of thing to him. He often says sharp, biting or witty statements. I do feel as though part of my job is to balance out the harshness of his words. His brothers chuckle to me about Will, "Mom, he's saying these crazy things again! Let's get out of here." And they run off and play somewhere else. I have felt pretty good about how his younger brothers are doing in light of this. But I am concerned about Will and his feelings about being uneducated and behind. He hasn't come out and said that he resents being unschooled, but at times, I do think he feels it.Sarah's point about opportunity cost is a great one. You can't have it all! When you are a 13 year old kid who has lived differently from everyone around you, it would be hard to not think about how if he had been in school like everyone else, he'd automatically be ready for high school. So I gave up the opportunity for him to be at grade level through the school method, but he has been able to immerse himself in sports, one of his great passions. He has been able to gain expert skills at gaming, and has learned to control the rage that he used to get during gaming. He has been able to spend days and days watching films, another passion.Right now, he is looking at all that through the eyes of judging middle schoolers. They are likely repeating judgments from their parents about gaming, watching movies and sports as being for down time, or for relaxation. So he feels uneducated because he doesn't know how to multiply fractions or write an essay. And then his first attempt at getting caught up was so overwhelming that he quit, and now feels doomed to be "uneducated."I think there’s something going on besides great unschooling, if he’s angry and you’re asking about high school.
I hope you’re not pushing them. I hope you’re living a rich full life with them, not leaving them to try to do it on their own.Yes, maybe I am not involved enough throughout the day. Will likes to spend a lot of time in his room, by himself, usually texting and snapchatting with friends or watching videos on youtube. He talks to me about his conversations and which friends he talks to the most, but I am certainly not involved directly in the conversations. There have been some very tough situations where he has had to completely block a friend because of bullying and during those situations, I do sit and read the text conversations with him. Sometimes I think about his life-- sports for 3 hours every evening and most of the weekend days, up late on social media with friends at night, waking around noon, reading and watching sports replays for a couple hours, playing with brothers, getting ready to go back to sports again... and I wish we had more time to do other things. He wants to do the sports. But I could be bringing more in.Ali
Belinda D
******I think he has conversations with his homeschooling friends, who lately have become competitive with each other, about grade levels and skills. He asked to do the curriculum that 2 of these friends were doing so that he could also be ready for high school. All of his homeschool friends plan to go to high school. I think they text about how much fun it will be to go to school together when they are in high school. I am definitely not pushing him to go to high school*****
I’m wondering, (GASP!) would he like to go to school? Is that possible?
There is a huge pressure to conform socially at that age, and he is spending a lot of time with highly schooled, ambitious kids and is aware of this. If team sport is such a priority for him then he will always be in this type of company. He is also ambitious himself (handwriting practise for 2 years! amazing commitment!).
My daughter went to school for a while when she was 11 - it was her choice entirely and we supported her adventure. She wasn’t as ‘behind’ as she thought - in fact, not really behind at all in most subjects, and is definitely not the type to have done handwriting practise to catch up. She got irritated with the other kids, and also with the teachers. She got cross that the sport wasn’t up to her expectations and that the friendships were shallow and unkind. She left after a term. However, she was much happier at home after this, because she knew what she wasn’t missing and that she COULD have made it work if she’d wanted to.
It was all part of our unschooling adventure, all part of her continuum of learning about the world, even when she was there it didn’t feel like we’d failed at unschooling at all.
******Sometimes I think about his life-- sports for 3 hours every evening and most of the weekend days, up late on social media with friends at night, waking around noon, reading and watching sports replays for a couple hours, playing with brothers, getting ready to go back to sports again... and I wish we had more time to do other things. He wants to do the sports. But I could be bringing more in.*******
This sounds heavenly for somebody who’s passion is sport!? I wonder what you want to bring more of. Time to hang out? or more varied activities? More integration with the family? If you have a vague feeling something is ‘missing’, so will he.
There is no other time in life that it’s so straightforward to fully immerse yourself in a passion or skill or learning adventure. It’s such a gift. Don’t see it as narrow or constricted if he doesn’t. My mum asks what my daughter wants for christmas. I give her a list of horsey stuff my daughter wants (she has a horse and rides every day). My mum sighs and says she wants to get her something else because everything is about horses. So she gets her something else, and my daughter has no interest in it ;-). Life doesn’t need to be ‘balanced’, it should be exciting and fun, joyful. (And maybe going to school with his sporty friends would be an exciting, joyful adventure, if there are no expectations from you.)
Belinda
Joyce Fetteroll
*** There is a huge pressure to conform socially at that age ***
It’s not just peer pressure. It’s biology too. Kids in the 11-14 year range can become very concerned about whether they’re up to speed with their peers.
In social mammals, adolescence is when the juveniles join the adults in adult work, under supervision. In lions the juveniles will be at the edge of the hunt, observing, participating in a lesser capacity as they learn what to do to contribute to the group.
Preadolescence is naturally a time of asking “Am I ready? What can I do to be ready to contribute to the group?”
Of course our society isn’t set up so that childhood flows into real contributing work with a child's tribe. But it doesn’t stop biology from starting the process! I would bet that his strong draw to sports teams coincides with a strong need to compare himself to them. He’s subconsciously asking if he’s ready to fit in. And he’s feeling he isn’t. He isn’t doing what they’re doing.
I think the more you can *reasonably* support him in exploring what he believes will help will help. He’ll see that what feels like "preparation to join the tribe” is really just a bunch of hoops the kids are jumping through.
Joyce
It’s not just peer pressure. It’s biology too. Kids in the 11-14 year range can become very concerned about whether they’re up to speed with their peers.
In social mammals, adolescence is when the juveniles join the adults in adult work, under supervision. In lions the juveniles will be at the edge of the hunt, observing, participating in a lesser capacity as they learn what to do to contribute to the group.
Preadolescence is naturally a time of asking “Am I ready? What can I do to be ready to contribute to the group?”
Of course our society isn’t set up so that childhood flows into real contributing work with a child's tribe. But it doesn’t stop biology from starting the process! I would bet that his strong draw to sports teams coincides with a strong need to compare himself to them. He’s subconsciously asking if he’s ready to fit in. And he’s feeling he isn’t. He isn’t doing what they’re doing.
I think the more you can *reasonably* support him in exploring what he believes will help will help. He’ll see that what feels like "preparation to join the tribe” is really just a bunch of hoops the kids are jumping through.
Joyce
Sandra Dodd
-=-I think he has conversations with his homeschooling friends, who lately have become competitive with each other, about grade levels and skills. He asked to do the curriculum that 2 of these friends were doing so that he could also be ready for high school. All of his homeschool friends plan to go to high school. I think they text about how much fun it will be to go to school together when they are in high school. I am definitely not pushing him to go to high school.
-=-
If he wants to play sports, he’ll need to keep a 3.0 average, probably, too, so if sports is the main goal I can understand his concern. That’s different from the college-at-18 trajectory I had first imagined.
-=-I do not think anyone is saying this type of thing to him. He often says sharp, biting or witty statements. I do feel as though part of my job is to balance out the harshness of his words.-=-
Harmful and hurtful shouldn’t be dismissed as “witty.” If someone is harming your child’s peace and prosperity, you should top it even if it’s coming from another of your children. Don’t balance it. Prevent it.
Maybe you could make it part of the condition of his sports activity that he NOT bring the school-style behaviors home. Yes, school has a hierarchy and accepts low-level bullying because there is high-level bullying to contrast it with. You don’t need to “balance” that in an unschooling home. You can say “keep it at school.”
-=-Yes, maybe I am not involved enough throughout the day. Will likes to spend a lot of time in his room, by himself, usually texting and snapchatting with friends or watching videos on youtube. He talks to me about his conversations and which friends he talks to the most, but I am certainly not involved directly in the conversations. There have been some very tough situations where he has had to completely block a friend because of bullying and during those situations, I do sit and read the text conversations with him. Sometimes I think about his life-- sports for 3 hours every evening and most of the weekend days, up late on social media with friends at night, waking around noon, reading and watching sports replays for a couple hours, playing with brothers, getting ready to go back to sports again... and I wish we had more time to do other things. He wants to do the sports. But I could be bringing more in.-=-
Maybe you could arrange an overnight or weekend road trip with him. That can be extremely therapeutic for a parent/child dyad. Drive far, do something very cool (sports event, concert, play, or a museum related to his interests). Stay in a hotel. Eat in restaurants. Vacation. Drive back.
The event will creat a memory. The drive will provide time to relax and talk without “sitting down to talk.”
http://sandradodd.com/truck
Please read that. It could solve your problem, perhaps.
Sandra
-=-
If he wants to play sports, he’ll need to keep a 3.0 average, probably, too, so if sports is the main goal I can understand his concern. That’s different from the college-at-18 trajectory I had first imagined.
-=-I do not think anyone is saying this type of thing to him. He often says sharp, biting or witty statements. I do feel as though part of my job is to balance out the harshness of his words.-=-
Harmful and hurtful shouldn’t be dismissed as “witty.” If someone is harming your child’s peace and prosperity, you should top it even if it’s coming from another of your children. Don’t balance it. Prevent it.
Maybe you could make it part of the condition of his sports activity that he NOT bring the school-style behaviors home. Yes, school has a hierarchy and accepts low-level bullying because there is high-level bullying to contrast it with. You don’t need to “balance” that in an unschooling home. You can say “keep it at school.”
-=-Yes, maybe I am not involved enough throughout the day. Will likes to spend a lot of time in his room, by himself, usually texting and snapchatting with friends or watching videos on youtube. He talks to me about his conversations and which friends he talks to the most, but I am certainly not involved directly in the conversations. There have been some very tough situations where he has had to completely block a friend because of bullying and during those situations, I do sit and read the text conversations with him. Sometimes I think about his life-- sports for 3 hours every evening and most of the weekend days, up late on social media with friends at night, waking around noon, reading and watching sports replays for a couple hours, playing with brothers, getting ready to go back to sports again... and I wish we had more time to do other things. He wants to do the sports. But I could be bringing more in.-=-
Maybe you could arrange an overnight or weekend road trip with him. That can be extremely therapeutic for a parent/child dyad. Drive far, do something very cool (sports event, concert, play, or a museum related to his interests). Stay in a hotel. Eat in restaurants. Vacation. Drive back.
The event will creat a memory. The drive will provide time to relax and talk without “sitting down to talk.”
http://sandradodd.com/truck
Please read that. It could solve your problem, perhaps.
Sandra
Sandra Dodd
I liked Belinda’s post except for this: "If you have a vague feeling something is ‘missing’, so will he. “
Something “missing” is not a concrete thing, though. It would be a wistfulness within a person’s soul. So if one is missing it, the other might not be at all.
But if he’s still young and communications are lacking, maybe the parents can rearrange their time with him and the quality of their presence. Still, he might not be as needy as they are. :-)
Sandra
Something “missing” is not a concrete thing, though. It would be a wistfulness within a person’s soul. So if one is missing it, the other might not be at all.
But if he’s still young and communications are lacking, maybe the parents can rearrange their time with him and the quality of their presence. Still, he might not be as needy as they are. :-)
Sandra
Ali Zeljo
> On Jan 29, 2017, at 2:55 AM, Belinda wroteI'm referring to doing a good job unschooling actually. He tried out a curriculum and quit after a few weeks. But it doesn't change his feeling of being "uneducated" so I'm thinking that perhaps my interpretation of his cocooning in his room by himself as natural and healthy is edging on neglect! I'm not saying I'll force him to do worksheets. But I'll offer to take him out to do more, help him find films he'd enjoy, etc. He can always say no.
>
> This sounds heavenly for somebody who’s passion is sport!? I wonder what you want to bring more of. Time to hang out? or more varied activities? More integration with the family? If you have a vague feeling something is ‘missing’, so will he.
Ali
katerennie@...
I have a thought regarding careers that is pertinent to this thread (this is my first AL post!).
When I was in grade 11 or so, I remember sort of flailing, trying to decide what among my many interests and talents would be suitable for My Career and My University Education (capitalization for emphasis - it all felt very very important).
My mom said: " you don't have to decide what you're going to do for the rest of your life right now. You just have to decide what you're going to do first." (Yes, "have-to" alert!!....Mom isn't an unschooler).
Anyway, the have-to can be replaced with "get to" or "have the opportunity to" and it makes it much more exciting.
Her words have been floating around in my mind a lot recently as I have moved from working as an engineer (a career I put about 15 years into that turned out not to be compatible with the kind of mother I choose to be) to homeschooling my kids and teaching my hobby for some additional income. It was easier to move on to the next thing knowing all along that there wasn't an expectation of permanence.
Kate
When I was in grade 11 or so, I remember sort of flailing, trying to decide what among my many interests and talents would be suitable for My Career and My University Education (capitalization for emphasis - it all felt very very important).
My mom said: " you don't have to decide what you're going to do for the rest of your life right now. You just have to decide what you're going to do first." (Yes, "have-to" alert!!....Mom isn't an unschooler).
Anyway, the have-to can be replaced with "get to" or "have the opportunity to" and it makes it much more exciting.
Her words have been floating around in my mind a lot recently as I have moved from working as an engineer (a career I put about 15 years into that turned out not to be compatible with the kind of mother I choose to be) to homeschooling my kids and teaching my hobby for some additional income. It was easier to move on to the next thing knowing all along that there wasn't an expectation of permanence.
Kate
Sandra Dodd
-=-My mom said: " you don't have to decide what you're going to do for the rest of your life right now. You just have to decide what you're going to do first." (Yes, "have-to" alert!!....Mom isn't an unschooler).-=-
Your mom’s statment is fine! She was excusing you from someone else’s “have to.”
The “have to” alert should only kick in when someone is saying “Well, we have to…” or “he has to…” without an if/then. (I have to use the clutch to put my car in gear; that’s a fact.)
-=-Anyway, the have-to can be replaced with "get to" or "have the opportunity to" and it makes it much more exciting. -=-
But it changes the meaning.
Life changes, and faster now than it did before, and not as fast as it will later.
Pressing a kid to decide isn’t as good as helping a child explore.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Your mom’s statment is fine! She was excusing you from someone else’s “have to.”
The “have to” alert should only kick in when someone is saying “Well, we have to…” or “he has to…” without an if/then. (I have to use the clutch to put my car in gear; that’s a fact.)
-=-Anyway, the have-to can be replaced with "get to" or "have the opportunity to" and it makes it much more exciting. -=-
But it changes the meaning.
Life changes, and faster now than it did before, and not as fast as it will later.
Pressing a kid to decide isn’t as good as helping a child explore.
Sandra
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