Releasing controls
settledwater@...
So the screens have been released and the sugar has been released. My husband and I have shared our knowledge about food with our children to prepare them/ to guide them, we are now trusting in them to take care of their beautiful body's.
Sugar was our biggest control so I went and bought enough candy for Halloween and put it in a bowl in the house and let the kids know it was there. They devoured the entire bowl in a day (4 children ages 11-4). When we went to the store they asked for more, so I bought it. I suggested to them that they might want to pace themselves. They devoured it all again. This has been going on for about two weeks.
It is so hard to watch. My heart breaks as I realise I've done this to them by limiting it. So my question is, has anyone else had this experience before and if so how long did the gorging go on? I believe that it will be like a pendulum and ultimately they will settle into a healthy pace but I'm not sure how to support them as a mother, hence my second question.
Where does the mothering line lay within unschooling? They want bags and bags of candy. I bring it in (joyful). We talk about being kind to ourselves and others in regards to the candy (not taking all of it so others miss out, giving your body a safe amount, teeth, not hoarding, etc). I then trust them to handle it the way they think is best. By the end of the day they have eaten all the candy I've bought. They've eaten it without consideration, some have hoarded it and one ate so much that he ended up sleeping in the middle of the day for three hours. On one hand I believe they are learning through these experiences (family members upset and disappointed that the candy is gone) but as a mother it is hard to watch. I've thought about each having their own bag but two of them end up taking from the others regardless.
Where do I come in as a mother? I don't want to be controlling about how much comes in or how often. I don't want to punish for stealing. I want it to be available to them but I can't keep up with their intake. And what if the four year old is eating only candy for breakfast and lunch and no dinner? Shouldn't I be stepping in (neglect)?
On a more hypothetical note, if they were drowning themselves in alcohol or drugs I would not want to be supplying it to them.
I truly believe though that it's their life and body and their path and I can try and prepare them but they have to work it out for themselves or they will never be able to trust themselves.
Please help me find a light that will guide me in this newly released territory.
Thank you for all your time and effort. I truly believe this group changes lives.
Katie
Sugar was our biggest control so I went and bought enough candy for Halloween and put it in a bowl in the house and let the kids know it was there. They devoured the entire bowl in a day (4 children ages 11-4). When we went to the store they asked for more, so I bought it. I suggested to them that they might want to pace themselves. They devoured it all again. This has been going on for about two weeks.
It is so hard to watch. My heart breaks as I realise I've done this to them by limiting it. So my question is, has anyone else had this experience before and if so how long did the gorging go on? I believe that it will be like a pendulum and ultimately they will settle into a healthy pace but I'm not sure how to support them as a mother, hence my second question.
Where does the mothering line lay within unschooling? They want bags and bags of candy. I bring it in (joyful). We talk about being kind to ourselves and others in regards to the candy (not taking all of it so others miss out, giving your body a safe amount, teeth, not hoarding, etc). I then trust them to handle it the way they think is best. By the end of the day they have eaten all the candy I've bought. They've eaten it without consideration, some have hoarded it and one ate so much that he ended up sleeping in the middle of the day for three hours. On one hand I believe they are learning through these experiences (family members upset and disappointed that the candy is gone) but as a mother it is hard to watch. I've thought about each having their own bag but two of them end up taking from the others regardless.
Where do I come in as a mother? I don't want to be controlling about how much comes in or how often. I don't want to punish for stealing. I want it to be available to them but I can't keep up with their intake. And what if the four year old is eating only candy for breakfast and lunch and no dinner? Shouldn't I be stepping in (neglect)?
On a more hypothetical note, if they were drowning themselves in alcohol or drugs I would not want to be supplying it to them.
I truly believe though that it's their life and body and their path and I can try and prepare them but they have to work it out for themselves or they will never be able to trust themselves.
Please help me find a light that will guide me in this newly released territory.
Thank you for all your time and effort. I truly believe this group changes lives.
Katie
Sandra Dodd
-=-So the screens have been released and the sugar has been released. My husband and I have shared our knowledge about food with our children to prepare them/ to guide them, we are now trusting in them to take care of their beautiful body's. -=-
I wish this is what you had read first:
http://sandradodd.com/gradualchange
Most of your post doesn’t sound like you really trust them, or us, or life, or learning.
This really doesn’t sound good:
"the screens have been released and the sugar has been released”
Sounds like “The hounds have been released and the demons have been released.”
I hope others will come and give straighter answers to your questions. I want to back up to your assertion. “Releasing controls,” done all of a sudden, will always result in frenzy. I want to say some things about just the subject of your post and the first few phrases, and I’ll leave it alone for others to take a different angle with.
http://sandradodd.com/control
It sounds a bit like you want to turn “control” over to your children. "we are now trusting in them to take care of their beautiful body’s.”
But you don’t trust them yet. And you have ideas about what sugar will do, and what beautiful is, and you’ve told them what you believe/“know” about food. It’s a test they can fail.
If you can, read some things here that you didn’t read before, just randomly, perhaps. :-)
http://sandradodd.com/food
What’s done is done, but these ideas might help you come to a balance point.
Don’t leave your children to take care of themselves. Create a solid relationship and a basecamp / nest. BE there, be in the moment with them.
http://sandradodd.com/being
As to “releasing the screens…” Yikes.
Please stop thinking of fifty things as all “screens.”
http://sandradodd.com/screentime.html
http://sandradodd.com/screentime/ (two different pages)
You released sugar? Had you jailed or enslaved it before?
I wish you could go back to gradually allowing more options, in a hundred sweet, generous instances.
Don’t talk about sugar, or think about sugar. Think about food, lots of interesting food, as food.
Your children don’t trust that you won’t go back to control. Because of what you’ve written, I don’t either. If you do, it will set you up for a bigger backlash the second time you “release” things. It’s a problem.
You’re still setting sugar aside from, apart from, above, other foods. So partly, you should look more into the links and stories on my site about sugar. Or look on Joyce’s if you’re tired of mine. You could search several at once here: http://sandradodd.com/search
Sandra
I wish this is what you had read first:
http://sandradodd.com/gradualchange
Most of your post doesn’t sound like you really trust them, or us, or life, or learning.
This really doesn’t sound good:
"the screens have been released and the sugar has been released”
Sounds like “The hounds have been released and the demons have been released.”
I hope others will come and give straighter answers to your questions. I want to back up to your assertion. “Releasing controls,” done all of a sudden, will always result in frenzy. I want to say some things about just the subject of your post and the first few phrases, and I’ll leave it alone for others to take a different angle with.
http://sandradodd.com/control
It sounds a bit like you want to turn “control” over to your children. "we are now trusting in them to take care of their beautiful body’s.”
But you don’t trust them yet. And you have ideas about what sugar will do, and what beautiful is, and you’ve told them what you believe/“know” about food. It’s a test they can fail.
If you can, read some things here that you didn’t read before, just randomly, perhaps. :-)
http://sandradodd.com/food
What’s done is done, but these ideas might help you come to a balance point.
Don’t leave your children to take care of themselves. Create a solid relationship and a basecamp / nest. BE there, be in the moment with them.
http://sandradodd.com/being
As to “releasing the screens…” Yikes.
Please stop thinking of fifty things as all “screens.”
http://sandradodd.com/screentime.html
http://sandradodd.com/screentime/ (two different pages)
You released sugar? Had you jailed or enslaved it before?
I wish you could go back to gradually allowing more options, in a hundred sweet, generous instances.
Don’t talk about sugar, or think about sugar. Think about food, lots of interesting food, as food.
Your children don’t trust that you won’t go back to control. Because of what you’ve written, I don’t either. If you do, it will set you up for a bigger backlash the second time you “release” things. It’s a problem.
You’re still setting sugar aside from, apart from, above, other foods. So partly, you should look more into the links and stories on my site about sugar. Or look on Joyce’s if you’re tired of mine. You could search several at once here: http://sandradodd.com/search
Sandra
LEAH ROSE
<<Where does the mothering line lay within unschooling?>>
I understand where this question is coming from because I used to wonder it myself. It comes from approaching unschooling as a set of behaviors and interactions, as a kind of program to follow. "Unschoolers do x,y, and z, therefore that's what we'll do because we want to unschool." I understood the philosophy of unschooling, could talk the talk, well before I understood how to walk the talk. And it prompted me to jump ahead of myself a few times which caused me nothing but doubts and anxiety.
<<They want bags and bags of candy. I bring it in (joyful).>>
Joyful...but with some inner tension? Your kids aren't relaxed about sugar not only because you've never let them be, but because you are not genuinely relaxed about sugar, as is apparent from the way you have talked about it. :-) You have released the tension on it outwardly, but you haven't released the tension inwardly. And they know it, and so they don't trust your sudden about-face. Why should they? They can perceive you are judging the results and not happy with what you see. From their perspective, this whole bonanza could end just as abruptly as it started because mom isn't truly happy about it.
<< I've thought about each having their own bag but two of them end up taking from the others regardless.>>
I would stop with the communal bowl as it seems to be adding to the strife and let them each choose their own bag, and then figure out a way to safeguard the candy of those who get theirs taken. If needed, I would be a kind of depository for those kids, so that they can relax about having their candy available when they want it.
<<Where do I come in as a mother? I don't want to be controlling about how much comes in or how often.>>
Don't "come in as a mother." It seems clear from your email that you associate the role of mother with that "mother knows best" schtick that is the hallmark of traditional parenting. If you're want to unschool then you need to reframe your role. Instead, be their more knowledgeable and experienced partner in life so that you can stop looking for The Line. And when you have immersed yourself in the mindset of partnership, where they aren't "the kids" and you "the mom", and when you've become comfortable with that role...maybe a few years from now...go back to thinking of yourself as "mother." I think your psyche will have made the shift by then so that mother and partner feel synonymous. :-)
<<And what if the four year old is eating only candy for breakfast and lunch and no dinner? Shouldn't I be stepping in (neglect)?>>
"Step in"? Nope, that's not the mindset that will help. Instead, why not offer them food throughout the day? If they are busy watching tv or gaming or playing or reading...whatever they're doing, make them monkey platters with a variety of delicious finger foods. Include some candy on the tray, too, (maybe from your own private stash) so that you aren't turning these platters into the "healthy" food. I recently made a monkey platter for my 21 yo son while he was studying for his college exams and he loved it. They are perfect for nurturing a person of any age.
<<On a more hypothetical note, if they were drowning themselves in alcohol or drugs I would not want to be supplying it to them.>>
I understand the seeming logic of these kinds of analogies but they don't serve to bring much clarity unless you can see that a person "drowning themselves in alcohol or drugs" is an addict who is desperate to fill a void in themselves that has formed through emotional disconnection and/or emotional neglect and/or emotional abandonment. I think it's safe to assume your kids are not in that state, that their sugar consumption is a reaction to your previous control, and that if the rest of their childhoods progress with you learning how to see, relax and live in connection with each of them as the individual as he or she is, that desperate void will never become their state.
The key to learning how unschooling works is to pay close enough attention so that you can see what is not working, what is not bringing peace, and then try something else. When you're first starting out after having parented traditionally, take baby steps. Thoughtful baby steps. Large blind leaps of faith into unschooling invariably end in a feeling of chaos, so don't be afraid to go slow. The changes you make should be small enough to create more peace, not less. :-)
<<Where do I come in as a mother? I don't want to be controlling about how much comes in or how often.>>
Don't "come in as a mother." It seems clear from your email that you associate the role of mother with that "mother knows best" schtick that is the hallmark of traditional parenting. If you're want to unschool then you need to reframe your role. Instead, be their more knowledgeable and experienced partner in life so that you can stop looking for The Line. And when you have immersed yourself in the mindset of partnership, where they aren't "the kids" and you "the mom", and when you've become comfortable with that role...maybe a few years from now...go back to thinking of yourself as "mother." I think your psyche will have made the shift by then so that mother and partner feel synonymous. :-)
<<And what if the four year old is eating only candy for breakfast and lunch and no dinner? Shouldn't I be stepping in (neglect)?>>
"Step in"? Nope, that's not the mindset that will help. Instead, why not offer them food throughout the day? If they are busy watching tv or gaming or playing or reading...whatever they're doing, make them monkey platters with a variety of delicious finger foods. Include some candy on the tray, too, (maybe from your own private stash) so that you aren't turning these platters into the "healthy" food. I recently made a monkey platter for my 21 yo son while he was studying for his college exams and he loved it. They are perfect for nurturing a person of any age.
<<On a more hypothetical note, if they were drowning themselves in alcohol or drugs I would not want to be supplying it to them.>>
I understand the seeming logic of these kinds of analogies but they don't serve to bring much clarity unless you can see that a person "drowning themselves in alcohol or drugs" is an addict who is desperate to fill a void in themselves that has formed through emotional disconnection and/or emotional neglect and/or emotional abandonment. I think it's safe to assume your kids are not in that state, that their sugar consumption is a reaction to your previous control, and that if the rest of their childhoods progress with you learning how to see, relax and live in connection with each of them as the individual as he or she is, that desperate void will never become their state.
The key to learning how unschooling works is to pay close enough attention so that you can see what is not working, what is not bringing peace, and then try something else. When you're first starting out after having parented traditionally, take baby steps. Thoughtful baby steps. Large blind leaps of faith into unschooling invariably end in a feeling of chaos, so don't be afraid to go slow. The changes you make should be small enough to create more peace, not less. :-)
LEAH ROSE
<<Where does the mothering line lay within unschooling?>>
I understand where this question is coming from because I used to wonder it myself. It comes from approaching unschooling as a set of behaviors and interactions, as a kind of program to follow. "Unschoolers do x,y, and z, therefore that's what we'll do because we want to unschool." I understood the philosophy of unschooling, could talk the talk, well before I understood how to walk the talk. And it prompted me to jump ahead of myself a few times which caused me nothing but doubts and anxiety.
<<They want bags and bags of candy. I bring it in (joyful).>>
Joyful...but with some inner tension? Your kids aren't relaxed about sugar not only because you've never let them be, but because you are not genuinely relaxed about sugar, as is apparent from the way you have talked about it. :-) You have released the tension on it outwardly, but you haven't released the tension inwardly. And they know it, and so they don't trust your sudden about-face. Why should they? They can perceive you are judging the results and not happy with what you see. From their perspective, this whole bonanza could end just as abruptly as it started because mom isn't truly happy about it.
<< I've thought about each having their own bag but two of them end up taking from the others regardless.>>
I would stop with the communal bowl as it seems to be adding to the strife and let them each choose their own bag, and then figure out a way to safeguard the candy of those who get theirs taken. If needed, I would be a kind of depository for those kids, so that they can relax about having their candy available when they want it.
<<Where do I come in as a mother? I don't want to be controlling about how much comes in or how often.>>
Don't "come in as a mother." It seems clear from your email that you associate the role of mother with that "mother knows best" schtick that is the hallmark of traditional parenting. If you're want to unschool then you need to reframe your role. Instead, be their more knowledgeable and experienced partner in life so that you can stop looking for The Line. And when you have immersed yourself in the mindset of partnership, where they aren't "the kids" and you "the mom", and when you've become comfortable with that role...maybe a few years from now...go back to thinking of yourself as "mother." I think your psyche will have made the shift by then so that mother and partner feel synonymous. :-)
<<And what if the four year old is eating only candy for breakfast and lunch and no dinner? Shouldn't I be stepping in (neglect)?>>
"Step in"? Nope, that's not the mindset that will help. Instead, why not offer them food throughout the day? If they are busy watching tv or gaming or playing or reading...whatever they're doing, make them monkey platters with a variety of delicious finger foods. Include some candy on the tray, too, (maybe from your own private stash) so that you aren't turning these platters into the "healthy" food. I recently made a monkey platter for my 21 yo son while he was studying for his college exams and he loved it. They are perfect for nurturing a person of any age.
<<On a more hypothetical note, if they were drowning themselves in alcohol or drugs I would not want to be supplying it to them.>>
I understand the seeming logic of these kinds of analogies but they don't serve to bring much clarity unless you can see that a person "drowning themselves in alcohol or drugs" is an addict who is desperate to fill a void in themselves that has formed through emotional disconnection and/or emotional neglect and/or emotional abandonment. I think it's safe to assume your kids are not in that state, that their sugar consumption is a reaction to your previous control, and that if the rest of their childhoods progress with you learning how to see, relax and live in connection with each of them as the individual as he or she is, that desperate void will never become their state.
The key to learning how unschooling works is to pay close enough attention so that you can see what is not working, what is not bringing peace, and then try something else. When you're first starting out after having parented traditionally, take baby steps. Thoughtful baby steps. Large blind leaps of faith into unschooling invariably end in a feeling of chaos, so don't be afraid to go slow. The changes you make should be small enough to create more peace, not less. :-)
<<Where do I come in as a mother? I don't want to be controlling about how much comes in or how often.>>
Don't "come in as a mother." It seems clear from your email that you associate the role of mother with that "mother knows best" schtick that is the hallmark of traditional parenting. If you're want to unschool then you need to reframe your role. Instead, be their more knowledgeable and experienced partner in life so that you can stop looking for The Line. And when you have immersed yourself in the mindset of partnership, where they aren't "the kids" and you "the mom", and when you've become comfortable with that role...maybe a few years from now...go back to thinking of yourself as "mother." I think your psyche will have made the shift by then so that mother and partner feel synonymous. :-)
<<And what if the four year old is eating only candy for breakfast and lunch and no dinner? Shouldn't I be stepping in (neglect)?>>
"Step in"? Nope, that's not the mindset that will help. Instead, why not offer them food throughout the day? If they are busy watching tv or gaming or playing or reading...whatever they're doing, make them monkey platters with a variety of delicious finger foods. Include some candy on the tray, too, (maybe from your own private stash) so that you aren't turning these platters into the "healthy" food. I recently made a monkey platter for my 21 yo son while he was studying for his college exams and he loved it. They are perfect for nurturing a person of any age.
<<On a more hypothetical note, if they were drowning themselves in alcohol or drugs I would not want to be supplying it to them.>>
I understand the seeming logic of these kinds of analogies but they don't serve to bring much clarity unless you can see that a person "drowning themselves in alcohol or drugs" is an addict who is desperate to fill a void in themselves that has formed through emotional disconnection and/or emotional neglect and/or emotional abandonment. I think it's safe to assume your kids are not in that state, that their sugar consumption is a reaction to your previous control, and that if the rest of their childhoods progress with you learning how to see, relax and live in connection with each of them as the individual as he or she is, that desperate void will never become their state.
The key to learning how unschooling works is to pay close enough attention so that you can see what is not working, what is not bringing peace, and then try something else. When you're first starting out after having parented traditionally, take baby steps. Thoughtful baby steps. Large blind leaps of faith into unschooling invariably end in a feeling of chaos, so don't be afraid to go slow. The changes you make should be small enough to create more peace, not less. :-)
Megan Valnes
You may consider trying to look at this issue of food from a different angle. Unschooling is about creating peaceful and joyful environment in which natural learning can thrive. Just because you buy your children some bags of candy and pretend to be joyful about it, they must feel your anxiety because I can sense it and we're over email. My gut reaction to your email was that you may be "releasing controls", however, your "knowledge of foods" is getting in the way of seeing your children.
They're gorging because it's new. My kids have been there too. I have 5 and I used to go to Costco and the sweet treats/candy/novelty food items would be gone in a matter of hours. Now, a bit more than 2 years later, I go to Costco (or any store) and they eat naturally and without the frenzied energy of kids who have had nearly every bite controlled. They are comfortable now. They know the food is here and if it runs out, I will buy them more. Seeing them eat happily brings me great joy. Right now I'm looking at a counter top full of fruits, veggies, cookies, brownies, frosted cupcakes, and Hawaiian bread. Some things have been here for quite some time, like the chocolate chip cookies, which used to be gone in no time, but this round has been here for at least a week.
How can your kids feel comfortable to eat shamelessly and comfortably if you are giving them a pep talk of sorts before you set the bowl of candy out? Would you talk about their "beautiful bodies" if you were setting out a bowl of bananas? Taking time to work on *your own* food issues will really help you and your children develop a healthy relationship with food.
I approach food much like my grandmother did because I was happiest as a child at my grandparent's house. Part of the reason is because she would always take me grocery shopping first thing, let me pick whatever I wanted, and make me everything with love and attentiveness. As I got older, she would always stock up on my favorites before I even got there. I could eat wherever and whenever I wanted with no judgement from her and so her house became my home. She also let me sleep however long I wanted and watch as much TV or play video games as I desired. She let me *be*, but didn't let me go. Looking back, I have the absolute best memories of my grandmother and our relationship stayed stronger than anything until she passed when I was 27.
The point of that ^^^ is to convey that the attitude in which you serve (food, your kids, anything) can alter the experience for the person being served. You don't need to talk about bodies before eating what you see as "junk food" because in reality, it is food. By allowing your children to become self-aware, they will know what's best to put in their body. Offer lots of choices of all kinds of foods. Buy fun new things. Bake together. They are learning how, why, how much, how does this make me feel, every time they eat. Let them learn. Stop trying to teach them. They may react differently to food than you do.
Before unschooling, I was dead set on my kids being the "healthiest" in the neighborhood. Blueberries for dessert, anyone? I had food issues. Unschooling has allowed me to open my mind to the infinite possibilities in all aspects of life, including food. I have taken time to recall my happiest moments as a child. I can tell you those memories do not include my parents limiting my sugar intake. Look at the history of food and sweets sometime, or of "expert advice", or of what makes something beautiful. Open your mind, create an environment where your kids can learn peacefully and joyfully, regardless of what it is they're learning about.
Warmly,
Megan
On Sun, Apr 3, 2016 at 7:27 PM, settledwater@... [AlwaysLearning] <[email protected]> wrote:
So the screens have been released and the sugar has been released. My husband and I have shared our knowledge about food with our children to prepare them/ to guide them, we are now trusting in them to take care of their beautiful body's.
Sugar was our biggest control so I went and bought enough candy for Halloween and put it in a bowl in the house and let the kids know it was there. They devoured the entire bowl in a day (4 children ages 11-4). When we went to the store they asked for more, so I bought it. I suggested to them that they might want to pace themselves. They devoured it all again. This has been going on for about two weeks.
It is so hard to watch. My heart breaks as I realise I've done this to them by limiting it. So my question is, has anyone else had this experience before and if so how long did the gorging go on? I believe that it will be like a pendulum and ultimately they will settle into a healthy pace but I'm not sure how to support them as a mother, hence my second question.
Where does the mothering line lay within unschooling? They want bags and bags of candy. I bring it in (joyful). We talk about being kind to ourselves and others in regards to the candy (not taking all of it so others miss out, giving your body a safe amount, teeth, not hoarding, etc). I then trust them to handle it the way they think is best. By the end of the day they have eaten all the candy I've bought. They've eaten it without consideration, some have hoarded it and one ate so much that he ended up sleeping in the middle of the day for three hours. On one hand I believe they are learning through these experiences (family members upset and disappointed that the candy is gone) but as a mother it is hard to watch. I've thought about each having their own bag but two of them end up taking from the others regardless.
Where do I come in as a mother? I don't want to be controlling about how much comes in or how often. I don't want to punish for stealing. I want it to be available to them but I can't keep up with their intake. And what if the four year old is eating only candy for breakfast and lunch and no dinner? Shouldn't I be stepping in (neglect)?
On a more hypothetical note, if they were drowning themselves in alcohol or drugs I would not want to be supplying it to them.
I truly believe though that it's their life and body and their path and I can try and prepare them but they have to work it out for themselves or they will never be able to trust themselves.
Please help me find a light that will guide me in this newly released territory.
Thank you for all your time and effort. I truly believe this group changes lives.
Katie
Ann Hedly Rousseau
***The changes you make should be small enough to create more peace, not less.***
I had written a response yesterday, then decided to sleep on it and this morning when I read Leah’s response and the quote above I wanted to change my response to include her wisdom. *My* response should be small enough to create more peace, not less.
Just for a moment think about how hard this has been on you to watch. It’s too much change too quickly for you to handle. You want to know from this group, how long will it go on? Until what? They don’t want candy anymore? Until they don’t hoard and steal? Until you are used to it? A fellow unschooling mom and I were talking about this post yesterday. She said, “As long as you are asking the question, you’re still in the thick of it."
If is so small that you aren’t worried, that’s the kind of change to look for… “yes!" to the lollipops at the bank, ice cream on the way home, “sure!” to the neighbor that wants to give them treats.
If you are uncomfortable, they will be, too. Be kind to yourself.
Consider how gradually allowing more sweets is kinder to yourself and you will be making adjustments and understandings gradually too.
Too much too quickly is too much too quickly, no matter how much you love the principles of unschooling.
It can start with lots and lots and lots of play around sweets. Play, silliness and improvisation helps to see sweets/sugar/candy and food in lots of different light and (hopefully with less dread, worry and doubt).
Can you imagine how joyful a similar experience might have been if you recreated Halloween and answered the door over and over again offering treats to them? What if they had changed costumes every time? What if you played a game, but instead of game pieces used candy?
“I don’t want to be controlling about how much comes in or how often.” But you will, unless they are doing the shopping.
When something sweet becomes just another choice in the big wide edible world, you’ll know you’ve arrived.
I’ve taken a long time to move toward unschooling principles. I’ve had to do it gradually. I had to go slowly enough that I believed in each step. And as of this morning, I understand that I’m moving gradually enough that more peace is created in my family, not less :) Thanks, Leah.
mama25kids@...
I love the responses from Ann and Megan...so much thoughtful perspective in them. Thank you both.
I think the original post caught my attention because it brings into focus something I've been thinking a lot about recently, which is that deschooling, which is noticing and letting go of mainstream, schoolish, traditional thinking about kids and learning and parenting, is really the practice of noticing and letting go of the stories in our head.
Looked at from a broad perspective, all human beings are prone to story-making - its the nature of our ego to seek control and to use our thoughts (our stories) as a way of projecting a sense of control over our lives, and of guarding against vulnerability. By continually reacting to the emotional triggers that launch our stories, most of us grow up strengthening our ability to get triggered into story-making, to get caught up in them and carried away by the noise of them. We can end up virtually stuck in our stories, convinced beyond doubt that they are True, that we are Right and others are Wrong.
Most people coming to unschooling bring a lot of stories with them, about food, tv, bedtimes, video games, outdoor play, reading, sharing, discipline, freedom, math...just about anything. And these stories can get in their way of creating a rich unschooling life because the most basic building block of that life is the ability to NOT be caught up in a story, to NOT respond to our triggers, but to live right in the present with our children, to look directly at each one and see and respond to that person right where they are. Every time we go off into a story in our heads...about sugar, screens, structure, consequences, whatever it is...we step out of the moment we are actually in and leave behind the child who is right there with us, in favor of the a story about the Possible Child, the one who Might Become, or Who Isn't, or Who Should Be. That is not how unschooling grows, how confidence in it is strengthened. Stepping out of the moment is, in essence, stepping away from unschooling. It's stepping into a story.
So how do we calm down our story-making? How do we deactivate our triggers? How do we learn to stay in the moment and see the Real Child, to let go of our narrative about the Possible Child?
Most of the advice in this forum (and others like it) answers that question because it's intensely focused on helping people discern their stories and deconstruct them. I think that's why these forums are so powerful in their ability transform people's lives. They give people tools to wake up, to notice their triggers and to pause, to see and reflect and thoughtfully use that critical space between stimulus and response in order to change their course. The practice of mindfulness, which is all about learning how to calm the mind, to strengthen steadiness of mind, is what builds the foundations of unschooling because it is wholly aimed at noticing where our attention is focused and bringing it back to the present, to the moment we are actually in. Real connection between real people, between ourselves and our children and our partners, can only ever happen in a real moment - not a past one, nor a future one, and certainly not inside our heads. And each conscious connection that is made by our presence in the present builds our family's unschooling story - that of lives shared joyfully and peacefully, where learning can flourish.
I hope this sounds coherent as it feels in my head. In any case, it's late and time for me to stop, so I'll just end with a wish for all to feel the peace and blessings of an awake and steady(ing) mind. :-)
Marina DeLuca-Howard
Can you take the kids to the produce section and buy all the exotic things you don't normally? Purple carrots? Star fruit or lychee?
You and the kids aren't having fun with sugar. What about baking a cake? Use a mix if you aren't a baker. You can use a home made icing: butter, icing, vanilla extract and decorate it.
I'm assuming you didn't just control sugar through candy, so instead of a crazy competitive bowl...why not a candle lit breakfast feast? Put out juice in fancy glasses. Hey some colourful napkins. Try fresh or frozen waffles with choices of syrup, chocolate, whipped cream, strawberries, mini marshmallows, or cinnamon butter. Lots of possibility. Maybe make crepes?
Remember to join in the fun...even if your waffle is a handful of berries and cream. Be a partner in fun rather than setting up a competition with a giant bowl. The candy bowl doesn't sound like fun but like stress for all of you.
Candy shouldn't be treated as more or less desirable than other foods. It shouldn't create bad feelings and competition. Create good times instead. What about chocolate fondue? Fruits, mini marshmallows...
There are lots of ways to loosen up on sugar that can make it sociable rather than competitive. Keep open access to candy but why not share popcorn and twizlers and m and m's while watching a movie together? Being together and sharing can be fun.
Hang out with the kids. You aren't an observer. You're a partner.
Marina
I love the responses from Ann and Megan...so much thoughtful perspective in them. Thank you both.
I think the original post caught my attention because it brings into focus something I've been thinking a lot about recently, which is that deschooling, which is noticing and letting go of mainstream, schoolish, traditional thinking about kids and learning and parenting, is really the practice of noticing and letting go of the stories in our head.
Looked at from a broad perspective, all human beings are prone to story-making - its the nature of our ego to seek control and to use our thoughts (our stories) as a way of projecting a sense of control over our lives, and of guarding against vulnerability. By continually reacting to the emotional triggers that launch our stories, most of us grow up strengthening our ability to get triggered into story-making, to get caught up in them and carried away by the noise of them. We can end up virtually stuck in our stories, convinced beyond doubt that they are True, that we are Right and others are Wrong.
Most people coming to unschooling bring a lot of stories with them, about food, tv, bedtimes, video games, outdoor play, reading, sharing, discipline, freedom, math...just about anything. And these stories can get in their way of creating a rich unschooling life because the most basic building block of that life is the ability to NOT be caught up in a story, to NOT respond to our triggers, but to live right in the present with our children, to look directly at each one and see and respond to that person right where they are. Every time we go off into a story in our heads...about sugar, screens, structure, consequences, whatever it is...we step out of the moment we are actually in and leave behind the child who is right there with us, in favor of the a story about the Possible Child, the one who Might Become, or Who Isn't, or Who Should Be. That is not how unschooling grows, how confidence in it is strengthened. Stepping out of the moment is, in essence, stepping away from unschooling. It's stepping into a story.
So how do we calm down our story-making? How do we deactivate our triggers? How do we learn to stay in the moment and see the Real Child, to let go of our narrative about the Possible Child?
Most of the advice in this forum (and others like it) answers that question because it's intensely focused on helping people discern their stories and deconstruct them. I think that's why these forums are so powerful in their ability transform people's lives. They give people tools to wake up, to notice their triggers and to pause, to see and reflect and thoughtfully use that critical space between stimulus and response in order to change their course. The practice of mindfulness, which is all about learning how to calm the mind, to strengthen steadiness of mind, is what builds the foundations of unschooling because it is wholly aimed at noticing where our attention is focused and bringing it back to the present, to the moment we are actually in. Real connection between real people, between ourselves and our children and our partners, can only ever happen in a real moment - not a past one, nor a future one, and certainly not inside our heads. And each conscious connection that is made by our presence in the present builds our family's unschooling story - that of lives shared joyfully and peacefully, where learning can flourish.
I hope this sounds coherent as it feels in my head. In any case, it's late and time for me to stop, so I'll just end with a wish for all to feel the peace and blessings of an awake and steady(ing) mind. :-)
Cass Kotrba
-=- On a more hypothetical note, if they were drowning themselves in alcohol or drugs I would not want to be supplying it to them. -=-
Really? You don't think this is a little overly dramatic? When you are the one who has set this up as an all or nothing situation. Your previous behaviour is what is triggering binging now. Not some inherent weakness in your children.
I hope you read my post yesterday about my daughter's transition from a controlled diet and her return to making choices for herself. I was thinking of this thread as well when I wrote.
When we transitioned out of a controlling diet there was certainly a lot of excitement and exploring of new options. That is what you are seeing now. The fervor of excitement will die down as long as you are consistent and reliable. But for now, bask in their joy! If you feel fear, think critically about what is causing that and please, keep it to yourself.
When we started our transition I did not make an announcement that my kids could eat anything they wanted but I started saying "yes" to pretty much everything and that did not go unnoticed. I started taking the kids to the store and letting them choose things. I started bringing home variety packs of everything I thought they might have an interest in. When candy would go on sale I would stock up. When we ran out I would buy more the next time I went to the store and I would try to do that pretty quickly.
Eventually my kids started to figure out how the different foods tasted and felt in their bodies and they were able to start deciding what they really wanted. Both kids realized pretty quickly that they rarely enjoy hard candy. All three of us enjoy chocolate but after a few months I'd see that certain chocolates would sit in the bowl and not get eaten.
My daughter went through a year+ where she ate almost exclusively the foods that had been previously forbidden. After realizing that he was no longer forced to try to eat what was served for dinner, my son went through a long period where he didn't know WHAT to eat and had a hard time finding anything. He has ended up not enjoying much in the sweets department so finding filling savory items has been the challenge for him. Not all kids love sweets!
-=- I then trust them to handle it the way they think is best. -=
With four kids going through a major transition you're going to have to be more involved than that for awhile. Help them negotiate through this tricky terrain.
Do you have any kids that enjoy baking? Baking bars, cookies and cakes are a great way to explore sweet flavors and it's not as expensive as buying candy.
-=- And what if the four year old is eating only candy for breakfast and lunch and no dinner?-=-
-=- And what if the four year old is eating only candy for breakfast and lunch and no dinner?-=-
Then that child may well not feel very well. Support the child as he or she figures this out but without undermining their learning. Don't take away from the child's learning by trying to teach them what you believe they should be figuring out. Watch to see how each child actually feels and support them as they figures out for themselves what their bodies need.
-Cass
cheri.tilford@...
>>Support the child as he or she figures this out but without undermining their learning. Don't take away from the child's learning by trying to teach them what you believe they should be figuring out. Watch to see how each child actually feels and support them as they figures out for themselves what their bodies need.<<
I really like that statement.
I'm lucky that I found this group before my daughter was ready for food - I think when she was about 5 months old. she's now 5 years old and has never had her food choices controlled.
recently we had a big candy-filled Easter egg hunt at a friend's house. she had a basket full of delicious candy. she'll ask me before she eats one that's unfamiliar so I can give her my best guess whether she'll like it (she doesn't like mint or root beer candy, for instance) and the afternoon after the hunt she happily gobbled up gummy worms, jelly beans, chocolates, and hard candies. shortly afterward she told me she had a tummy ache. whenever she reports an ache or pain, I ask very simple questions: point to where it hurts, is it inside or outside, what might help it feel better? After it feels better, I might ask if she has any ideas why it hurt. I make sure to show her, with both my words and actions, she is the expert on her body.
After her sugary tummy ache, which she thought would feel better if she laid down to watch a video for awhile (and it did) I asked if she needed anything else to eat, and she wanted to know what I thought might feel good. I suggested something fatty and salty (cheese, salami, smoked salmon, hummus and veggies) and made her a tray of some food options she chose (she's got a great little kid food tray with 5 separate compartments), she ate what she wanted and we saved the rest for later.
I see her friends being told "no" when they want another cookie or more candy. I see the looks on their faces that say they'll sneak it if they can, consequences (broken trust, tummy ache) be damned. I see that it doesn't take much to begin to erode a partnership. "knowing best" is a slow killer for any relationship.
by the way, she's still got lots of Easter candy left. the basket sits in the middle of our dining table. she'll grab a jelly bean here and there. the chocolate is gone because that's her favorite. I buy chocolate truffles in bulk and she gets one, along with her gummy vitamins, on every tray of food. she used to eat her gummies and chocolates first, no matter what else was on the tray, and over the last few months she's been saving the chocolate for last. I've never commented on the order in which she ate her food, but recently I noticed out loud that she saved her chocolate for last and she said because it's her favorite and she wants to have that taste in her mouth at the end.
I'm so grateful for the wisdom in this group, the behavior around food being one of the most basic and important ones.
cheers,
cheri
settledwater@...
This group has such a powerful effect. I needed your comments and insight to help me move forward, I needed you all to hold up the mirror that would reveal my blemishes, the ones I was missing. As a result I can look honestly at my questions and struggles and see clearly through this new lens, the questions are answering themselves. I feel I am getting it more and more.
Thank you for your time and consideration.
Sent from my iPhone
robin.bentley@...
These might help.
Negative approaches to peace
There are layers of words in your writing that make me wonder if you are actually seeing clearly. Clarity
Negative approaches to peace
Fears
Both links have writing from members here (some of which was probably written here!).
There are layers of words in your writing that make me wonder if you are actually seeing clearly. Clarity
Robin B.