Sarah Thompson

I'm trying to find some discussions of the assertion: "Kids need something to push against," ie- I need to set artificial boundaries (like deadlines or limits) so that the child will complete xyz task, or "accomplish something." I can't seem to get anywhere searching on sandradodd.com-there must be something there but I'm using wrong search terms. The "create something to push against" is the central concept I'm exploring, that's the terminology people are using to me and that is getting stuck in my head.

Is this ringing any bells in terms of links that I can explore? I *know* I've seen these exact words in discussions.

My son is in a book club and he loves to finish the books for book club, but he's not interested in reading books without that deadline. He loves the structure and discipline of the dojo, but he's not interested in working on his skills without that pressure. He loves having an objective in a video game, but he isn't interested in continuing a sandbox project that he sets for himself past a single session of play. I know that's okay.

So then my parents, or even my husband, will say, "You need to give him something to push against; he finds it rewarding to accomplish goals in that context." This feels wrong to me (that it is *my* job to do that), but I can't get to a cogent argument for why.

Sarah

Sandra Dodd

-=-I'm trying to find some discussions of the assertion: "Kids need something to push against,” -=-
-=-Is this ringing any bells in terms of links that I can explore? I *know* I've seen these exact words in discussions.-=-

Not in any discussion I’ve been in. Not that I can remember.
I remember things about “you need to frustrate him” (which my mother-in-law said), about making life harder in general, but not in specific, I don’t think.

-=-My son is in a book club and he loves to finish the books for book club, but he's not interested in reading books without that deadline. He loves the structure and discipline of the dojo, but he's not interested in working on his skills without that pressure. He loves having an objective in a video game, but he isn't interested in continuing a sandbox project that he sets for himself past a single session of play. I know that's okay. -=-

Some people like competition and “achievements.”
If he’s setting his own goals or choosing competitive or record-keeping activities, that’s his doing.

If you try to control and schedule him, it could backfire.

-=-So then my parents, or even my husband, will say, "You need to give him something to push against; he finds it rewarding to accomplish goals in that context." This feels wrong to me (that it is *my* job to do that), but I can't get to a cogent argument for why.-=-

Ask your husband and parents that. :-)
If they make a statement like that, then say “Why?” And quietly wait, with steady gaze, for them to explain to you why they think there’s a hurry or a competition. Don’t rush in with your defense or evidence before you see if they can come up with a thoughtful part 2 to their assertion about what YOU “need” to do.

If you remember it from a discussion here, go to the group page (there should be a link at the bottom of each e-mail) and search at the top where it says “search discussions.”

Sandra

Ann Hedly Rousseau

I think it just depends. Most people wouldn't feel like he needed to sit around and play a board game all by himself, just because he really liked playing it with other people. (Though some kids do like to play like that, taking the role of many players and playing alone.)

If he really does like the feel of goals, that shouldn't be complicated to assist, because he will also be giving ideas about goals to accomplish. My son was given a pedometer and he got excited about reaching 14,000 steps. It was fun and simple to assist him in that goal. It didn't feel like a 'job' at all.

So then my parents, or even my husband, will say, "You need to give him something to push against; he finds it rewarding to accomplish goals in that context." This feels wrong to me (that it is *my* job to do that), but I can't get to a cogent argument for why.

Maybe the best argument for parents or a spouse is "why?" and attempt to get to the heart of what their concern is, if there is time and interest. Why does he need something to push against? Why does he need to continue a sandbox project if he isn't interested in pursuing it? Why isn't it enough to have the push at the dojo? Is he really asking for something to push against?

If you can't think of why, maybe it's a good time to ask 'why' gently back to the asker? 

Maybe it is enough that it doesn't feel right to you and you don't have to have a cogent argument. It's just not going to be plain and easy to see for everyone that looks. 

Sometimes it's just personal. I never would have been the swimmer I was without my coaches pushing me, and that's me I was very competitive without lots of free choices as a kid, but that's not true for my kids, who seem to have no concern for how fast they swim and aren't particularly competitive. Or something along the lines of; 'I wouldn't have learned xyz without some lingering consequences therefore this child I see should also be pushed like I was pushed'. With an opening 'why' this conversation can deepen in our families.

Ann Rousseau

Joyce Fetteroll


On Mar 2, 2016, at 10:29 AM, Sarah Thompson thompsonisland@... [AlwaysLearning] <[email protected]> wrote:

my parents, or even my husband, will say, "You need to give
him something to push against; he finds it rewarding to
accomplish goals in that context."


It's not the deadline or a bar that's inspiring. It's wanting to do something enough that you're willing to set aside other things for it. A deadline or bar helps keep you focused. If it's imposed without the desire to achieve it, it's 

You might ask them how far they would get if you assigned them the task of climbing Mt. Everest. Thousands of people have found that goal inspiring. Why don't they?

There's National Novel Writing Month. The goal is to write a 50,000 word novel in 30 days. 1/3 of a million people participated last year. Why don't they do that?

They might counter that those are of interest to them. You might find some challenge that's closer to their interests like reading every Pulitzer Prize winning novel. Or assigning them one of those 1000 Things (Movies, Books) to Do Before You Die lists. 

What are their feelings? Do they feel challenged? Or pushed around?

Joyce

Joyce Fetteroll


On Mar 2, 2016, at 12:14 PM, Ann Hedly Rousseau annhedly@... [AlwaysLearning] <[email protected]> wrote:

I never would have been the swimmer I was without my coaches pushing me

How do you know that, though?

You know you felt like you didn't want to do some of the work outs. You know the coaches didn't give you a choice. But you can't know what you would have done without their pushing. Would you have done the same workouts? Maybe not. But if you're competitive you would have found some schedule to train with. The advantage of the coach is that you trusted the coach knew best. That wasn't necessarily true. There might be some book that had an even better training schedule. It's just that you put your trust in your coach and were willing to do what they told you.

Obviously the job of coaches is to push. When athletes take on a coach it's because they don't want to depend on themselves to do the pushing. But an athlete does *choose* to train with a coach.

My husband trains for triathlons. He often uses schedules devised by others but he does his own pushing. He occasionally hires coaches when he feels he's reached a plateau. But all the effort he puts in is his own. It's not that he has something special that drives him. It's that he enjoys what he's doing and he's come to trust that he doesn't need a coach.

Joyce