Nicole Taylor

This is probably going to be long, so I apologize in advance. 
After 7 years of homeschooling, and the last 3 being really hard, we are moving into unschooling. We are still in the deschooling process, so I have lots of questions. However, the most pressing one has to do with food. 

I need to start this with the fact that we have 7 children ages 13-2. Our budget is pretty tight since my husband has just started a business and things haven't picked up yet. 

We changed our diet pretty drastically three years ago because of some health issues with two of our children. We eat well. That being said, we do still order pizza and stop for fast food. 

One of our children has issues. He has sensory processing issues, had speech issues as a young child, was diagnosed with ADHD, and reacts to certain foods. I wish it were just a physical reaction. If he were to get hives or an upset stomach, I feel as if he would eventually learn not to eat the foods that give him a reaction. His reactions are in the form of a tick. He starts talking without using words, cries at the drop of a hat, and is just downright mean. He has violent outbursts and screams at his siblings. 

I've tried not to bring the offending foods into the house. I've tried talking to him about how his body reacts, but he seeks out the foods and eats them anyway. He once ate 2 lbs of m&ms I was using to potty train one of our children. Just last week at church he went up to the snack bar four different times and ate as many donuts with sprinkles on them as he could. The rest of us paid for his choices in his poor behavior. 

I try to make treats for the family, but he will get up in the wee hours of the morning and eat them all so that no one else can have any. I have started buying cereal for breakfast. Our baby has to have rice crispies, he can't eat wheat. I asked that no one eat the rice cereal. It was chocolate, I bought the other kids chocolate cereal too. This child ate the baby's cereal, and not for breakfast, but in handfuls in his pocket over the course of the day. Just today I brought home a box of cereal with marshmallows for breakfast. He opened the box and filled his pockets with the cereal even though he can have it for breakfast. 

I understand the ideas behind not controlling food. I don't want to have children feeling as if they have to sneak food. However, we also have a budget and we have to make sure all of the children eat. I'm already spending $10/week just on cereal. I only ask that they have one bowl for breakfast so that everyone can have some. I realize this is still a rule, but the first kids awake would literally eat an entire box of cereal and the last one up wouldn't get any. This child gets up first and eats as much as he can before the others have a chance. He is 11 BTW. 

How do I bring "treats" into my home and allow my children to choose when one child just eats it all? How do I help him to learn self control, when he still eats things that he knows make him feel terrible? We've talked to him until we are blue in the face and yet he still eats as fast as he can at dinner so that he gets seconds first. He still is the first one in the fridge when any treats get brought home. He eats the ingredients for a planned dinner or dessert in the middle of the night or early in the morning when no one is around. I realize that we have tons of things going on with the child. I can't even begin to unpack how hard life has been with this one child. At this point, I just need some assistance in the food department. It is so much harder to give the children free reign and choice in the kitchen when there are 7 of them, and they could clean out the fridge in the first hour after I unload groceries. It's very hard to find unschooling advice for larger families. Most large families use schedules and curriculum and control. (tried that and hated it for the last 3 years) 

I am thinking of letting them choose snacks for the week and letting them each have their own snack box. My fear here is that our 11 year old will raid everyone else's boxes, and then how are there any consequences for him?

I am learning so much from the discussions here, on Sandra's website, and on the Facebook page. I spend every morning reading something new on Sandra's site so that I am encouraged to keep going. We have already made much progress in the last four months, but we all have a long way to go. Especially me. 

Thank you again in advance. And thank you for taking the time to read through this. 

Nikki Taylor

Sarah Thompson

Is there a chance they're hungry? Cereal for breakfast tastes good to me but I'm starving in five minutes. I'd easily eat 3 bowls and *still* be hungry. It took me over 30 years to figure out the food pyramid was wronger than wrong for my body.


Sarah

Sandra Dodd

-=- I can't even begin to unpack how hard life has been with this one child. At this point, I just need some assistance in the food department. -=-

You are telling us what you "just need," but you are incorrect.

What you need is NOT "just some assistance in the food department."

-=-I understand the ideas behind not controlling food. -=-

Clearly, though, you missed a huge component of it.

-=-I am thinking of letting them choose snacks for the week and letting them each have their own snack box.-=-

Bad idea, even if you didn't have one who wants and needs more food than the others.

-=-My fear here is that our 11 year old will raid everyone else's boxes, and then how are there any consequences for him?-=-

The consequence so far for him is that his mother doesn't think much of him, and is blaming the food instead of other factors.

-=-We have already made much progress in the last four months,-=-

Four months isn't nearly half of the deschooling you need to do, and if you're still looking for things like self control and consequences, perhaps that four months doesn't count at all. Until you stop doing the things that keep unschooling from working, unschooling can't begin to work. That's from this: http://sandradodd.com/doit

I think your budget is working against you. I think you're trying to be mathematical about something that isn't mathematical. If one child wants three bowls of cereal, are you multiplying seven by three, instead of adding two to seven? You seem to have declared that things must be divided. My mom used to count out M&Ms (literally, in four teacups, one, one, one, one, around until she ran out). She used to count out grapes the same way, for four kids. It wasn't cool. And it meant a kid who didn't even really like or want that thing got the same amount as one who desperately loved and wanted it. That is NOT equitable or fair—to give someone something she doesn't want, in front of someone who wants it.

Sandra

Megan Valnes

I was going to ask the same thing: are they still hungry? Perhaps offer bacon, fruit, cheese, or eggs along with the cereal so the kids are getting some protein to help fill them up. And maybe not everyone only wants cereal? There are other inexpensive and filling breakfast foods, such as bagels, oatmeal, and toast with peanut butter.

Why do you think your son is so intent on stealing food? Even if he is choosing food that is bad for him--why steal it and fill his pockets with it? 

We have 5 children, so I understand what you mean when you unload your groceries and the kids eat them up quickly. That happens to us too, but not as fervently anymore as it did when we first started (we've only been unschooling 1 year). The kids know now that they can have what they want, when they want it. They all enjoy eating different things and also the same things. They don't tear through the pantries like they used to--there's a calmness that comes with being allowed to eat when and what you want. 

Monkey platters are a wonderful thing for kids--my kids absolutely love them. Yours might too. 
http://sandradodd.com/monkeyplatters/

On Monday, February 16, 2015, Sarah Thompson thompsonisland@... [AlwaysLearning] <[email protected]> wrote:
 

Is there a chance they're hungry? Cereal for breakfast tastes good to me but I'm starving in five minutes. I'd easily eat 3 bowls and *still* be hungry. It took me over 30 years to figure out the food pyramid was wronger than wrong for my body.


Sarah



--
Sent from Gmail Mobile

Tiffani

Let me start by saying I have 5 kids. We came late to unschooling. My kids were 16, 13, 10, 7, 4. They are now 21 down to 10. We also changed our diet in an attempt to eat a more healthy diet. 

>>>>>He has sensory processing issues, had speech issues as a young child, was diagnosed with ADHD, and reacts to certain foods. I wish it were just a physical reaction. If he were to get hives or an upset stomach, I feel as if he would eventually learn not to eat the foods that give him a reaction. His reactions are in the form of a tick. He starts talking without using words, cries at the drop of a hat, and is just downright mean. He has violent outbursts and screams at his siblings.<<<<<

This sounds just like my 3rd son. I feel so lucky to have some wonderful older and grown unschoolers around to tell me not to look at him with labels. The labels can help if you use them to be more understanding. My child is not a label he is a growing changing all the time human being. My so also gets ticks. His are caused by stress. Your sons ticks could be stress related as well. If when he eats certain foods you instantly know what is coming next there is not room for anything different.

>>>>>I try to make treats for the family, but he will get up in the wee hours of the morning and eat them all so that no one else can have any.<<<<<

I have found that perception has a lot to do with the success of unschooling. Is he really getting up early and eating them all so no one else can have any or is he getting up and eating them all because he is famished and they are yummy and easy to eat early in the morning when there is no one there to help him get something else? My second son(a very selective eater) explained to me how painful the hunger pains are when he was that age. He would feel like he was starving. That did not make him eat food he wouldn't normally eat. He would just not eat and be miserable. I would stock up on extra snacks for him and put them in a tub under his bed so he had access to them anytime. If they were kept in the snack box they would be gone and he would have nothing.

>>>>>I've tried not to bring the offending foods into the house. I've tried talking to him about how his body reacts, but he seeks out the foods and eats them anyway. He once ate 2 lbs of m&ms I was using to potty train one of our children. Just last week at church he went up to the snack bar four different times and ate as many donuts with sprinkles on them as he could. The rest of us paid for his choices in his poor behavior.<<<<<

Try to stop labeling food. I would have eaten the 2lb box of M&Ms too if they were for only one person and I was not allowed any. The more off limits a food is the more valuable it is.  This is about TV but I feel it also applies to food. http://sandradodd.com/t/economics .  Don't see it as the rest of you paid for his bad choices. He was struggling and needed extra understanding. I would probably point out to him when he is feeling more calm to notice the difference in how he feels when he choose to stay away from certain foods. I would not do that very often though.  That will only work if you are not judging. One of my sons has an allergy to milk. We found out when he was 18, he stays away from it almost all the time. Then everyone once in a while he will drink a lot of milk or he will eat pizza and he suffers. This kid has amazing self control I wish I could bottle it and use it myself yet he still has times where he will choose to eat the pizza knowing the consequences. We are not perfect and neither is your son. Have you ever been on a diet and wanted a piece of cake? Did your husband, girlfriends, kids call you on it? Did that feel good? Did it prevent you from eating the cake? If it did, did you crave the cake till you finally broke down and ate it or something else "off limits"? So if as adult we choose to go off a diet that we self imposed why would we think that a kids can perfectly follow a diet imposed on them?

>>>>> We've talked to him until we are blue in the face and yet he still eats as fast as he can at dinner so that he gets seconds first.<<<<<

What is the problem with letting him get seconds first? He is one of your older kids right? The younger ones probably do not even notice. On of the things I learned from having a big family is to stop trying to make everything the same. Some kids need more snuggles, some need more space. Why would you give the kids who wants space snuggles while denying the one who needs the snuggles in the name of making things fair. Another example is when I am out and about and I see something that kid 3 would absolutely love I will buy it for him and I do not go out of my way to buy 4 other things. It makes the items more precious and does not fill our house with unwanted stuff and I do not waste my money in the name of fairness.  

>>>>>He eats the ingredients for a planned dinner or dessert in the middle of the night or early in the morning when no one is around.<<<<<

My son would do this too. So I asked him what kind of food he wanted to eat at those times. I have a shelf full of canned soup, raviolis, crackers, and such. He will actually take a can of raviolis and eat it out of the can. This has help a lot. All of this stuff can be purchased really cheap and coupons come all the time for this pantry food. We have fruit on the counters and meals are balanced. This food is meant to be for his intense hunger at none meal times. I also do not stop him from eating this food before dinner. Then he is satisfied with one serving of dinner. I also pack up leftovers if there are any and he will eat those. So what I recommend is instead of telling him what not to eat try to tell him what is okay to eat. 

>>>>>I am thinking of letting them choose snacks for the week and letting them each have their own snack box. My fear here is that our 11 year old will raid everyone else's boxes, and then how are there any consequences for him?<<<<<

Don't set him up for failure. How about only making a snack bucket for him. After a while he will probably feel like he is able to have enough and some of this will go away. My daughter is adopted and she was actually starved as a young child. She has really big food issues. From 8-10 she would eat till she threw up sometimes. I would hold her hair and rub her back. She would eat every time someone in the house was eating even if she just ate. She always had seconds. She is overweight and sometimes I feel like what if monitored her food better she would not be overweight. That might be true for a while. Now she is 15 and in complete control of her food. She learned more about how food makes her feel by personal trial and error. I could not have taught her that.  It was way more important for me that we connected as mother and daughter. She is happy well adjusted and a very lovely person. Most of her negative behaviors have been long gone. She is finally starting to trust me. It has been a long road. I am so grateful that i did not waste time obsessing over her eating.  

>>>>>It is so much harder to give the children free reign and choice in the kitchen when there are 7 of them,<<<<<

I do not even think this is possible. That is why we have designated areas of meal food. I have 2 shelves that are for planned meals. I have a place in the fridge designated for dads lunch and meal plan food. 

>>>>> It's very hard to find unschooling advice for larger families. Most large families use schedules and curriculum and control. (tried that and hated it for the last 3 years)<<<<<

It is harder to have 7 kids then 1. That is true no matter what schooling choice you choose. Embrace the ciaos. They grow up.  It takes time to bring the family all the way around to unschooling. It took us a good couple of years for everything to line up. Some days I would think all of this is crazy. Try to trust the process.

Tiffani
 
From: "Nicole Taylor ntmom3@... [AlwaysLearning]" <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2015 1:37 PM
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Sneaking Food

 
This is probably going to be long, so I apologize in advance. 
After 7 years of homeschooling, and the last 3 being really hard, we are moving into unschooling. We are still in the deschooling process, so I have lots of questions. However, the most pressing one has to do with food. 

I need to start this with the fact that we have 7 children ages 13-2. Our budget is pretty tight since my husband has just started a business and things haven't picked up yet. 

We changed our diet pretty drastically three years ago because of some health issues with two of our children. We eat well. That being said, we do still order pizza and stop for fast food. 

One of our children has issues. He has sensory processing issues, had speech issues as a young child, was diagnosed with ADHD, and reacts to certain foods. I wish it were just a physical reaction. If he were to get hives or an upset stomach, I feel as if he would eventually learn not to eat the foods that give him a reaction. His reactions are in the form of a tick. He starts talking without using words, cries at the drop of a hat, and is just downright mean. He has violent outbursts and screams at his siblings. 

I've tried not to bring the offending foods into the house. I've tried talking to him about how his body reacts, but he seeks out the foods and eats them anyway. He once ate 2 lbs of m&ms I was using to potty train one of our children. Just last week at church he went up to the snack bar four different times and ate as many donuts with sprinkles on them as he could. The rest of us paid for his choices in his poor behavior. 

I try to make treats for the family, but he will get up in the wee hours of the morning and eat them all so that no one else can have any. I have started buying cereal for breakfast. Our baby has to have rice crispies, he can't eat wheat. I asked that no one eat the rice cereal. It was chocolate, I bought the other kids chocolate cereal too. This child ate the baby's cereal, and not for breakfast, but in handfuls in his pocket over the course of the day. Just today I brought home a box of cereal with marshmallows for breakfast. He opened the box and filled his pockets with the cereal even though he can have it for breakfast. 

I understand the ideas behind not controlling food. I don't want to have children feeling as if they have to sneak food. However, we also have a budget and we have to make sure all of the children eat. I'm already spending $10/week just on cereal. I only ask that they have one bowl for breakfast so that everyone can have some. I realize this is still a rule, but the first kids awake would literally eat an entire box of cereal and the last one up wouldn't get any. This child gets up first and eats as much as he can before the others have a chance. He is 11 BTW. 

How do I bring "treats" into my home and allow my children to choose when one child just eats it all? How do I help him to learn self control, when he still eats things that he knows make him feel terrible? We've talked to him until we are blue in the face and yet he still eats as fast as he can at dinner so that he gets seconds first. He still is the first one in the fridge when any treats get brought home. He eats the ingredients for a planned dinner or dessert in the middle of the night or early in the morning when no one is around. I realize that we have tons of things going on with the child. I can't even begin to unpack how hard life has been with this one child. At this point, I just need some assistance in the food department. It is so much harder to give the children free reign and choice in the kitchen when there are 7 of them, and they could clean out the fridge in the first hour after I unload groceries. It's very hard to find unschooling advice for larger families. Most large families use schedules and curriculum and control. (tried that and hated it for the last 3 years) 

I am thinking of letting them choose snacks for the week and letting them each have their own snack box. My fear here is that our 11 year old will raid everyone else's boxes, and then how are there any consequences for him?

I am learning so much from the discussions here, on Sandra's website, and on the Facebook page. I spend every morning reading something new on Sandra's site so that I am encouraged to keep going. We have already made much progress in the last four months, but we all have a long way to go. Especially me. 

Thank you again in advance. And thank you for taking the time to read through this. 

Nikki Taylor


Tiffani

>>>>>She used to count out grapes the same way, for four kids. It wasn't cool. And it meant a kid who didn't even really like or want that thing got the same amount as one who desperately loved and wanted it. That is NOT equitable or fair—to give someone something she doesn't want, in front of someone who wants it.<<<<<

This is exactly the kind of thing that having a big family has helped me to understand. This is also true with clothes and other things. I have one kid who is happy to have 4 outfits and wear them over and over if the budget would allow for a huge collection of books. My daughter thinks 2 pairs of shoes is child abuse. The boys are just happy with 1 pair of shoes that stay on their feet(duct tapes has been used by these boys too they think thats cool). I can't always purchase a pair of shoes for every kids at once. I will replace shoes that are worn out or to small. When I do that only 1 kids get a pair. My skater kids goes through shoes much faster then the other kids. He gets more pairs per year. One kids gets more books. We only have one under teen now and he still gets new toys. The others have moved on from toys. 

Tiffani

From: "Sandra Dodd Sandra@... [AlwaysLearning]" <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 8:18 AM
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Sneaking Food

 
-=- I can't even begin to unpack how hard life has been with this one child. At this point, I just need some assistance in the food department. -=-

You are telling us what you "just need," but you are incorrect.

What you need is NOT "just some assistance in the food department."

-=-I understand the ideas behind not controlling food. -=-

Clearly, though, you missed a huge component of it.

-=-I am thinking of letting them choose snacks for the week and letting them each have their own snack box.-=-

Bad idea, even if you didn't have one who wants and needs more food than the others.

-=-My fear here is that our 11 year old will raid everyone else's boxes, and then how are there any consequences for him?-=-

The consequence so far for him is that his mother doesn't think much of him, and is blaming the food instead of other factors.

-=-We have already made much progress in the last four months,-=-

Four months isn't nearly half of the deschooling you need to do, and if you're still looking for things like self control and consequences, perhaps that four months doesn't count at all. Until you stop doing the things that keep unschooling from working, unschooling can't begin to work. That's from this: http://sandradodd.com/doit

I think your budget is working against you. I think you're trying to be mathematical about something that isn't mathematical. If one child wants three bowls of cereal, are you multiplying seven by three, instead of adding two to seven? You seem to have declared that things must be divided. My mom used to count out M&Ms (literally, in four teacups, one, one, one, one, around until she ran out). She used to count out grapes the same way, for four kids. It wasn't cool. And it meant a kid who didn't even really like or want that thing got the same amount as one who desperately loved and wanted it. That is NOT equitable or fair—to give someone something she doesn't want, in front of someone who wants it.

Sandra



Sarah Thompson

I have found that I sometimes spend *less* when I shop more frequently. Could you or your husband pick up food for the next two days at a time, so that the abundant feeling of new groceries happens more often for you? Bulk staple foods, stuff that comes in 50lbs bags, is probably not the stuff the kids are eating like crazy:) That you could buy less frequently.

Sarah

On Feb 16, 2015 1:23 PM, "Tiffani tiffermomof5@... [AlwaysLearning]" <[email protected]> wrote:
 

Let me start by saying I have 5 kids. We came late to unschooling. My kids were 16, 13, 10, 7, 4. They are now 21 down to 10. We also changed our diet in an attempt to eat a more healthy diet. 

>>>>>He has sensory processing issues, had speech issues as a young child, was diagnosed with ADHD, and reacts to certain foods. I wish it were just a physical reaction. If he were to get hives or an upset stomach, I feel as if he would eventually learn not to eat the foods that give him a reaction. His reactions are in the form of a tick. He starts talking without using words, cries at the drop of a hat, and is just downright mean. He has violent outbursts and screams at his siblings.<<<<<

This sounds just like my 3rd son. I feel so lucky to have some wonderful older and grown unschoolers around to tell me not to look at him with labels. The labels can help if you use them to be more understanding. My child is not a label he is a growing changing all the time human being. My so also gets ticks. His are caused by stress. Your sons ticks could be stress related as well. If when he eats certain foods you instantly know what is coming next there is not room for anything different.

>>>>>I try to make treats for the family, but he will get up in the wee hours of the morning and eat them all so that no one else can have any.<<<<<

I have found that perception has a lot to do with the success of unschooling. Is he really getting up early and eating them all so no one else can have any or is he getting up and eating them all because he is famished and they are yummy and easy to eat early in the morning when there is no one there to help him get something else? My second son(a very selective eater) explained to me how painful the hunger pains are when he was that age. He would feel like he was starving. That did not make him eat food he wouldn't normally eat. He would just not eat and be miserable. I would stock up on extra snacks for him and put them in a tub under his bed so he had access to them anytime. If they were kept in the snack box they would be gone and he would have nothing.

>>>>>I've tried not to bring the offending foods into the house. I've tried talking to him about how his body reacts, but he seeks out the foods and eats them anyway. He once ate 2 lbs of m&ms I was using to potty train one of our children. Just last week at church he went up to the snack bar four different times and ate as many donuts with sprinkles on them as he could. The rest of us paid for his choices in his poor behavior.<<<<<

Try to stop labeling food. I would have eaten the 2lb box of M&Ms too if they were for only one person and I was not allowed any. The more off limits a food is the more valuable it is.  This is about TV but I feel it also applies to food. http://sandradodd.com/t/economics .  Don't see it as the rest of you paid for his bad choices. He was struggling and needed extra understanding. I would probably point out to him when he is feeling more calm to notice the difference in how he feels when he choose to stay away from certain foods. I would not do that very often though.  That will only work if you are not judging. One of my sons has an allergy to milk. We found out when he was 18, he stays away from it almost all the time. Then everyone once in a while he will drink a lot of milk or he will eat pizza and he suffers. This kid has amazing self control I wish I could bottle it and use it myself yet he still has times where he will choose to eat the pizza knowing the consequences. We are not perfect and neither is your son. Have you ever been on a diet and wanted a piece of cake? Did your husband, girlfriends, kids call you on it? Did that feel good? Did it prevent you from eating the cake? If it did, did you crave the cake till you finally broke down and ate it or something else "off limits"? So if as adult we choose to go off a diet that we self imposed why would we think that a kids can perfectly follow a diet imposed on them?

>>>>> We've talked to him until we are blue in the face and yet he still eats as fast as he can at dinner so that he gets seconds first.<<<<<

What is the problem with letting him get seconds first? He is one of your older kids right? The younger ones probably do not even notice. On of the things I learned from having a big family is to stop trying to make everything the same. Some kids need more snuggles, some need more space. Why would you give the kids who wants space snuggles while denying the one who needs the snuggles in the name of making things fair. Another example is when I am out and about and I see something that kid 3 would absolutely love I will buy it for him and I do not go out of my way to buy 4 other things. It makes the items more precious and does not fill our house with unwanted stuff and I do not waste my money in the name of fairness.  

>>>>>He eats the ingredients for a planned dinner or dessert in the middle of the night or early in the morning when no one is around.<<<<<

My son would do this too. So I asked him what kind of food he wanted to eat at those times. I have a shelf full of canned soup, raviolis, crackers, and such. He will actually take a can of raviolis and eat it out of the can. This has help a lot. All of this stuff can be purchased really cheap and coupons come all the time for this pantry food. We have fruit on the counters and meals are balanced. This food is meant to be for his intense hunger at none meal times. I also do not stop him from eating this food before dinner. Then he is satisfied with one serving of dinner. I also pack up leftovers if there are any and he will eat those. So what I recommend is instead of telling him what not to eat try to tell him what is okay to eat. 

>>>>>I am thinking of letting them choose snacks for the week and letting them each have their own snack box. My fear here is that our 11 year old will raid everyone else's boxes, and then how are there any consequences for him?<<<<<

Don't set him up for failure. How about only making a snack bucket for him. After a while he will probably feel like he is able to have enough and some of this will go away. My daughter is adopted and she was actually starved as a young child. She has really big food issues. From 8-10 she would eat till she threw up sometimes. I would hold her hair and rub her back. She would eat every time someone in the house was eating even if she just ate. She always had seconds. She is overweight and sometimes I feel like what if monitored her food better she would not be overweight. That might be true for a while. Now she is 15 and in complete control of her food. She learned more about how food makes her feel by personal trial and error. I could not have taught her that.  It was way more important for me that we connected as mother and daughter. She is happy well adjusted and a very lovely person. Most of her negative behaviors have been long gone. She is finally starting to trust me. It has been a long road. I am so grateful that i did not waste time obsessing over her eating.  

>>>>>It is so much harder to give the children free reign and choice in the kitchen when there are 7 of them,<<<<<

I do not even think this is possible. That is why we have designated areas of meal food. I have 2 shelves that are for planned meals. I have a place in the fridge designated for dads lunch and meal plan food. 

>>>>> It's very hard to find unschooling advice for larger families. Most large families use schedules and curriculum and control. (tried that and hated it for the last 3 years)<<<<<

It is harder to have 7 kids then 1. That is true no matter what schooling choice you choose. Embrace the ciaos. They grow up.  It takes time to bring the family all the way around to unschooling. It took us a good couple of years for everything to line up. Some days I would think all of this is crazy. Try to trust the process.

Tiffani
 
From: "Nicole Taylor ntmom3@... [AlwaysLearning]" <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2015 1:37 PM
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Sneaking Food

 
This is probably going to be long, so I apologize in advance. 
After 7 years of homeschooling, and the last 3 being really hard, we are moving into unschooling. We are still in the deschooling process, so I have lots of questions. However, the most pressing one has to do with food. 

I need to start this with the fact that we have 7 children ages 13-2. Our budget is pretty tight since my husband has just started a business and things haven't picked up yet. 

We changed our diet pretty drastically three years ago because of some health issues with two of our children. We eat well. That being said, we do still order pizza and stop for fast food. 

One of our children has issues. He has sensory processing issues, had speech issues as a young child, was diagnosed with ADHD, and reacts to certain foods. I wish it were just a physical reaction. If he were to get hives or an upset stomach, I feel as if he would eventually learn not to eat the foods that give him a reaction. His reactions are in the form of a tick. He starts talking without using words, cries at the drop of a hat, and is just downright mean. He has violent outbursts and screams at his siblings. 

I've tried not to bring the offending foods into the house. I've tried talking to him about how his body reacts, but he seeks out the foods and eats them anyway. He once ate 2 lbs of m&ms I was using to potty train one of our children. Just last week at church he went up to the snack bar four different times and ate as many donuts with sprinkles on them as he could. The rest of us paid for his choices in his poor behavior. 

I try to make treats for the family, but he will get up in the wee hours of the morning and eat them all so that no one else can have any. I have started buying cereal for breakfast. Our baby has to have rice crispies, he can't eat wheat. I asked that no one eat the rice cereal. It was chocolate, I bought the other kids chocolate cereal too. This child ate the baby's cereal, and not for breakfast, but in handfuls in his pocket over the course of the day. Just today I brought home a box of cereal with marshmallows for breakfast. He opened the box and filled his pockets with the cereal even though he can have it for breakfast. 

I understand the ideas behind not controlling food. I don't want to have children feeling as if they have to sneak food. However, we also have a budget and we have to make sure all of the children eat. I'm already spending $10/week just on cereal. I only ask that they have one bowl for breakfast so that everyone can have some. I realize this is still a rule, but the first kids awake would literally eat an entire box of cereal and the last one up wouldn't get any. This child gets up first and eats as much as he can before the others have a chance. He is 11 BTW. 

How do I bring "treats" into my home and allow my children to choose when one child just eats it all? How do I help him to learn self control, when he still eats things that he knows make him feel terrible? We've talked to him until we are blue in the face and yet he still eats as fast as he can at dinner so that he gets seconds first. He still is the first one in the fridge when any treats get brought home. He eats the ingredients for a planned dinner or dessert in the middle of the night or early in the morning when no one is around. I realize that we have tons of things going on with the child. I can't even begin to unpack how hard life has been with this one child. At this point, I just need some assistance in the food department. It is so much harder to give the children free reign and choice in the kitchen when there are 7 of them, and they could clean out the fridge in the first hour after I unload groceries. It's very hard to find unschooling advice for larger families. Most large families use schedules and curriculum and control. (tried that and hated it for the last 3 years) 

I am thinking of letting them choose snacks for the week and letting them each have their own snack box. My fear here is that our 11 year old will raid everyone else's boxes, and then how are there any consequences for him?

I am learning so much from the discussions here, on Sandra's website, and on the Facebook page. I spend every morning reading something new on Sandra's site so that I am encouraged to keep going. We have already made much progress in the last four months, but we all have a long way to go. Especially me. 

Thank you again in advance. And thank you for taking the time to read through this. 

Nikki Taylor


K Pennell

Any carbs tend to only fill you up for a little while, so he may really still be hungry. My son started with massive growth spurts around 11. He eats SO much more than he used to, and is genuinely hungry. The growth chart on the wall shows he's using this food he's taking in to get bigger! Lots bigger in the past year.

I'd consider not limiting the cereal, etc..but also: my son has started eating sandwiches for breakfast. The protein seems to make him feel more satiated. He loads it up with his favorite sandwich meats, cheddar cheese, and lettuce.

From: "Sarah Thompson thompsonisland@... [AlwaysLearning]" <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 11:16 AM
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Sneaking Food



Is there a chance they're hungry? Cereal for breakfast tastes good to me but I'm starving in five minutes. I'd easily eat 3 bowls and *still* be hungry. It took me over 30 years to figure out the food pyramid was wronger than wrong for my body.

Sarah




Sandra Dodd

-=-It is so much harder to give the children free reign and choice in the kitchen when there are 7 of them-=-

I don't think you know whether it's harder, as you don't have any more basis for comparison than people with two children can know how it is to have seven.
If you declare it all to be harder, it's another way to distance yourself from the choices you made that led to having seven children. HAVING them, now, find ways to live peacefully and abundantly and gratefully.

This will make a difference: -=-free reign and choice-=-

Options. You want to give them options.

The term is "free rein." It has to do with letting a horse have his head, letting the horse decide which way to go. There's still a rider, but the rider isn't reining the horse this way or that.

If you think it's "reign" (as in the tenure of a king), you can't think as clearly about what you're saying, or what you're thinking (or what you're repeating without really understanding it).

Children don't need free anything. "Freedom" is a problematic concept, for unschoolers.

Children need choices and options.

Sandra

Sandra Dodd

We can't tell you exactly what to do to fix this in one day. That is not going to happen.

I'm going to point out a few things that you could start working on, gradually, that will help here and other places. But the person who needs to change most is you.

-=- We've talked to him until we are blue in the face ...-=-

When you use a phrase that was used to you, or about you, or by older relatives, that shows that you're feeling embarrassed in a deep place in you, OR that you're not really thinking with your own mind about your own child.

Because "until we are blue in the face" is an idiom, and not a recent or current one, it's coming from one of the voices in your head, from your super-ego (kind of your unconscious conscience).

I might add it to my collections here: http://sandradodd.com/phrases

Sandra

semajrak@...

<<we have to make sure all of the children eat>>

You don't "have to" make sure all the children eat.  You could let them go hungry.  


That probably sounds like a pretty harsh thing for me to say.  But it's true.  You don't "have to" feed anybody.  The truth is that you choose to take good care of your children, and make sure they are well fed and well nourished.  That's a beautiful gift you are giving your kids.  

When you see it as "having to" feed them, you rob yourself and them of fully experiencing and appreciating the generosity that comes from choosing moment to moment to love, care for and nurture your children.  When you tell yourself you "have to make sure all the children eat" it's no longer a loving choice.  It's a burden—a consequence of having children.

When you learn to see feeding your children as a choice and not a chore, the whole dynamic of your relationships with your kids will change, I believe.  The focus will shift away from measuring the food and the budget, and more toward helping each of your kids get their needs met.  That is not to say the budget will disappear, but your choices will reflect thoughtful consideration of each family member within those real constraints.  Maybe for a while you'll choose to spend $20/week on cereal and less on other things. Perhaps that will change again and you'll find yourself stocking up on plums or chips or chocolate milk or whatever it is that makes each child feel supported and living abundantly. 


Karen James