Megan Valnes

Hi all,
 I wrote last week that we were finally ready to embark on our unschooling journey, and we have!  And so far it's been so wonderful.  Oh my gosh, the elation I feel is nearly indescribable.  Being with my children, spending time, giving them real choices, trusting them, and sleeping when we all want to sleep are just a few of the treasures we've enjoyed over the past 7 days.  And my husband is thrilled beyond words too.  He keeps commenting on how he's never heard our kids laugh so much and be so joyful.  I know we are only at the very beginning, but what a great beginning it is!  And I know challenges will arise, but I look forward to being thoughtful through them and partnering with my kids while facing those challenges.

So, what's the problem?  My guilt!  I feel SO GUILTY for ever going against my gut and sending them to school.  I feel guilty for letting myself be told what to do when it goes against the nature of my husband and myself.  Mostly, I feel guilty for my oldest, he will be 10 in May, because he has suffered the most.

Can he recover?  I was just reading Parenting a Free Child: An Unschooled Life by Rue Kream and there's a line where she says "Rowan and Dagny have an enthusiasm that schooled children seem to lose in second or third grade."  Ugh.

I realize that guilt is a wasted emotion and energy suck, but I do a need a little reassurance here.  Luckily, my husband and I have always been a bit off the beaten path, so I don't think any of my children are thoughtless drones, especially Julian, my oldest.  He is a very deep thinker--but that makes it hurt more too because he's wanted to be home for so long and we only just now made it happen.  I told him I am sorry for all the years I kept him in school and how happy I am that he is home with me now.  

Thanks for reading.  

--
Warm regards,
Megan Valnes
Agent | Partner
Valnes Bell Realtors
310.367.0433 | m
310.390.6280 | o



Sandra Dodd

-=-So, what's the problem?  My guilt!  I feel SO GUILTY for ever going against my gut and sending them to school.  I feel guilty for letting myself be told what to do when it goes against the nature of my husband and myself.  Mostly, I feel guilty for my oldest, he will be 10 in May, because he has suffered the most.-=-


He would rather have a relaxed mom than a stressed and agitated mom.

-=-Can he recover?  I was just reading Parenting a Free Child: An Unschooled Life by Rue Kream and there's a line where she says "Rowan and Dagny have an enthusiasm that schooled children seem to lose in second or third grade."  Ugh.-=-

Would another day at school be better or worse?

-=- He is a very deep thinker--but that makes it hurt more too because he's wanted to be home for so long and we only just now made it happen.  I told him I am sorry for all the years I kept him in school and how happy I am that he is home with me now.  
-=-

Time will help. Don't dwell on the past.  Live now, in this moment, as often as you can.  It will get easier.


Sandra

<kgharriman1@...>

If its any consolation, our eldest daughter (who is also a deep thinker) has never attended school. However at 8 (9 at end of April) she's also lost all interest in learning anything that looks remotely academic. She's lost enthusiasm for many things apart from a select few (dancing, pets, ipod). We have done a smattering of homeschool curriula over the last four years, but its been hit and miss and ad hoc, with many weeks or months of nothing (except for me feeling guilty that we had been doing nothing) so I would say that I attempted school at home. So, maybe it doesn't matter if a child has been at a school or whether mum as tried to make school at home happen (ours was a casual maths or language arts bookwork thing at kitchen table when I could make it happen... ugh... sometimes she loved it, other times it was an uphill battle and I doubt now whether she learnt anything from what I set before them). I love Rue Kream's book. These days I am very careful to not literally overlay what I read onto our family which almost always ends in guilt. I could say I feel guilty for trying to make homeschooling work when my gut was telling me SO strongly to relax and let go and just to trust and quit the fear... but I know that is the journey I took and I don't feel guilty. I am someone who needed to learn the hard way. I needed to make the mistakes I made. I couldn't have learnt any other way and could not have unschooled from the beginning or I would have constantly felt guilty for not doing school! I could not have learnt for myself that it doesn't work if I didn't try it. Nothing that anybody said to me would have made any difference.

Pam Sorooshian


On Sun, Feb 23, 2014 at 8:34 PM, Megan Valnes <meganvalnes@...> wrote:
Can he recover?

Yes.

We took our oldest out of school when she was 10 and she became an unschooler to her deepest core. 

Self-recrimination is self-indulgent and not helpful to your children. Be fully present in the here and now. That's the antidote to regret.

-pam

D. Regan

Mostly, I feel guilty for my oldest, he will be 10 in May, because he has suffered the most.

Can he recover?

It's a question without an answer at this point.  It depends on lots of things - his personality, his resilience, how hurt he has been, how well-supported he is from now on...  But you can do a lot to make things better for him.  And the better you support him from now on, the better his life is.  That's real and tangible.

I realize that guilt is a wasted emotion and energy suck, but I do a need a little reassurance here.

Your acceptance of what has been done in the past, will be more helpful than any reassurance that you haven't done too much harm.  The guilt is about you, and the reassurance is about you.  They both keep you from being open and present to your children.   Work to accept the past.  And turn your attention to supporting your children well now.

http://sandradodd.com/breathing  may help in accepting the past and being present to your children now.

Debbie.


Joyce Fetteroll

On Feb 23, 2014, at 11:34 PM, Megan Valnes <meganvalnes@...> wrote:

> Can he recover?

What if the damage is permanent?

Would putting him back in school make it better?

> So, what's the problem? My guilt!

What if your husband had been married before? What if the boy's mom had been the one sending him to school? What if you now had full custody and could bring him home and give him the life he really needs?

Wouldn't that feel like a wonderful opportunity to let him heal? To now let him grow free of the cage? And you get to be the one to give him that opportunity? Wouldn't his past be irrelevant to what you could give to him now?

It's the exact same situation. The only difference is one child has a mom more focused on her guilt than her son. The other child has a new mom who is focused on his recovery and what she can do for him.

Guilt is a healthy emotion. Its purpose is to motivate us to change and do better. Guilt is a bad emotion if it's held onto. Holding onto guilt is self-flagellation and not about doing better.

Joyce

janine davies

>>>Mostly, I feel guilty for my oldest, he will be 10 in May, because he has suffered the most.
Can he recover?<<<

I felt guilt for a bit. But soon very soon, and applicable to his personality as Debbie pointed out, you will see and hear reassurances.

My son who is now 11 but was 10 when unschooling started in our family is still deschooling to be honest - he is a deep thinker and feels all his emotions deeply and right out on his sleeve. I believe thats why his deschooling has taken longer, (he was in school a total of 5 years including pre school) some days its like he never went and full of wonderfull joyful exclamations of 'I love my life' ' my family are so awesome' "you are the best parents in the world ever' , other days he can still talk with such clarity and detail about a particular hurtful, confusing, happening at his last school , and some way back to year 1 and even preschool….So just imagine where I could go with the guilt… But I don't, I hang on to those joyful exclamations from my son, and write them down, and tell my partner, and hug my son and tell him how much hearing these words from him mean to me.

Also he will start to see how different his life is now compared to school friends, I have to keep myself in check with over talking about this when he chats to me about it, and runs things past me that he has noticed - I'm learning to let him talk and tell me without too much jargon about school & unschooling. For example just today he is at a friends house he has known since preschool - best buddies, and his friend has an inset day (teacher training day) and they were both looking forward to a day of PS4 play mostly but….just this morning his mum sent me a text saying that "her son has been punished (he is 12) and had all his "screens' taken away as that is the only thing that makes a difference to him these days….and would I ask my son if he still wanted to come…. 
So many things leap out here for me , but may not have done quite so much a year ago, and for my son many many things leaped out at him - he was immediately sad for his friend , then he felt his humiliation, then he said that his friend will sneak them mum you know that, then he pointed out the use of the word 'screens', then he said I want to go round there even more now! and really feeling the need to support him and make it better for him, he said he will be alright mum we can play loads of other stuff and go to the park. Most telling for me though was that he said 'we should have invited him round here, lets go get him in the morning and bring him here.'

Let the guilt go and focus on all the joy and learning. 

Ps. I have literally just received this text from the mum and its says " The boys are having a ball! Thank you for letting me have Sam today!"   That made me think….but mostly smile at my beautiful son going there to make his friend happy.

 Janine 






To: [email protected]
From: oregano3@...
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2014 19:18:08 +1100
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Oh the guilt

 

Mostly, I feel guilty for my oldest, he will be 10 in May, because he has suffered the most.

Can he recover?

It's a question without an answer at this point.  It depends on lots of things - his personality, his resilience, how hurt he has been, how well-supported he is from now on...  But you can do a lot to make things better for him.  And the better you support him from now on, the better his life is.  That's real and tangible.

I realize that guilt is a wasted emotion and energy suck, but I do a need a little reassurance here.

Your acceptance of what has been done in the past, will be more helpful than any reassurance that you haven't done too much harm.  The guilt is about you, and the reassurance is about you.  They both keep you from being open and present to your children.   Work to accept the past.  And turn your attention to supporting your children well now.

http://sandradodd.com/breathing  may help in accepting the past and being present to your children now.

Debbie.



Sandra Dodd

-=-he was immediately sad for his friend , then he felt his humiliation...then he said I want to go round there even more now!-=-

I remember a few times one of my kids went to a friend's house who was being punished one way or another, and it's sweet, and compassionate.  Holly used to help her friend clean her room so they could go play.  Once the mom said no, that the girl needed to do it by herself.  Holly saw how silly that was, and helped her anyway.

When parents do things thoughtfully and sensibly, it's a good example for the kids. :-)
But children learn from bad examples too. They're learning all the time.

Sandra

Megan Valnes

I woke up this morning and read all of the very insightful replies to my lamenting.  What a great way to start the day!  The responses helped me realize that I was making what should be about the children, about me instead.  Self centered behavior.  I did my best to switch it right around today.

-=-Would another day at school be better or worse?-=-

This especially made me take a deep breath and feel relief.  How true!  Julian (and all the kids) is (are) SO much better off!  

-=-Self-recrimination is self-indulgent and not helpful to your children. Be fully present in the here and now. That's the antidote to regret.-=-

Exactly on point again!  I have a mother who lived for many years in regret and sorrow for her choices in parenting.  She has only just learned to start being present in the here and now at age 68.  It breaks my heart, but she encourages me because even at her age (when most people are assumed to be "who they are") she fights to change.  She and I are in this radical unschooling thing together :) Of course she says "oh, I wish I would have known about this for all of you!  Or I wish my parents had done this with me!" Whenever she shares her regrets with me, it makes me feel irritated and resentful, so I know this is not a good approach to have with my own children.

-=-Guilt is a healthy emotion. Its purpose is to motivate us to change and do better. Guilt is a bad emotion if it's held onto. Holding onto guilt is self-flagellation and not about doing better.-=-

Yes, thank you.  My guilt has motivated me.  I'm working on letting it go.  And definitely not putting it onto my children anymore.  Praying for release and moving forward.

-=-We are 1 1/2 years in and they are still healing but SOO much happier & mentally healthier.-=-

This gives me so much hope. 

-=-Let the guilt go and focus on all the joy and learning. -=-

I am posting this to my desktop!  I loved your whole response and thank you for sharing your experience with me.

I'm replacing the guilt with gratitude.  Just experienced another fabulous day feeling joyful :)
 


--
Warm regards,
Megan Valnes
Agent | Partner
Valnes Bell Realtors
310.367.0433 | m
310.390.6280 | o


Lorna Laurie

Exactly on point again!  I have a mother who lived for many years in regret and sorrow for her choices in parenting.  She has only just learned to start being present in the here and now at age 68.  It breaks my heart, but she encourages me because even at her age (when most people are assumed to be "who they are") she fights to change.  She and I are in this radical unschooling thing together :) Of course she says "oh, I wish I would have known about this for all of you!  Or I wish my parents had done this with me!" Whenever she shares her regrets with me, it makes me feel irritated and resentful, so I know this is not a good approach to have with my own children.


Can I ask for insight about knowing how to include very loving close grandparents who are also very fearful, negative, and relentless when it comes to givng unwanted advice or their view of how things are. We have yet to even let my parents know what we are doing because of the negative, possibly sarcastic comments made to my children while they are settling into unschooling. It's not that I don't want to tell them...I just wanted to take out time as a family to feel our way into our new life. I have been contemplating how to gently tell them and let them know how things will play out if they choose not to support us. I know that sounds threatening, but I am a gentle communicator and  what I mean to say is I will let them know the possible approaches ranging from questioning us, to staying out of it, to actually supporting us and opening to the idea of good (which would be awesome.) 

Also, though my children understand how they can be, my daughter is unsettled about not sharing it with them. I told her we know this is right for us and it would really open a can of worms. Of course, openness would be better, but I've been holding off to contemplate how to best handle it. I am unsure of this part and welcome comment.

Thnks, 

Lorna


On Tuesday, February 25, 2014 1:30 AM, Megan Valnes <meganvalnes@...> wrote:
 
I woke up this morning and read all of the very insightful replies to my lamenting.  What a great way to start the day!  The responses helped me realize that I was making what should be about the children, about me instead.  Self centered behavior.  I did my best to switch it right around today.

-=-Would another day at school be better or worse?-=-

This especially made me take a deep breath and feel relief.  How true!  Julian (and all the kids) is (are) SO much better off!  

-=-Self-recrimination is self-indulgent and not helpful to your children. Be fully present in the here and now. That's the antidote to regret.-=-

Exactly on point again!  I have a mother who lived for many years in regret and sorrow for her choices in parenting.  She has only just learned to start being present in the here and now at age 68.  It breaks my heart, but she encourages me because even at her age (when most people are assumed to be "who they are") she fights to change.  She and I are in this radical unschooling thing together :) Of course she says "oh, I wish I would have known about this for all of you!  Or I wish my parents had done this with me!" Whenever she shares her regrets with me, it makes me feel irritated and resentful, so I know this is not a good approach to have with my own children.

-=-Guilt is a healthy emotion. Its purpose is to motivate us to change and do better. Guilt is a bad emotion if it's held onto. Holding onto guilt is self-flagellation and not about doing better.-=-

Yes, thank you.  My guilt has motivated me.  I'm working on letting it go.  And definitely not putting it onto my children anymore.  Praying for release and moving forward.

-=-We are 1 1/2 years in and they are still healing but SOO much happier & mentally healthier.-=-

This gives me so much hope. 

-=-Let the guilt go and focus on all the joy and learning. -=-

I am posting this to my desktop!  I loved your whole response and thank you for sharing your experience with me.

I'm replacing the guilt with gratitude.  Just experienced another fabulous day feeling joyful :)
 


--
Warm regards,
Megan Valnes
Agent | Partner
Valnes Bell Realtors
310.367.0433 | m
310.390.6280 | o




Sandra Dodd

-=--=-Let the guilt go and focus on all the joy and learning. -=-

I am posting this to my desktop! 

Just the last part.  Not "The GUILT."

"Focus on all the joy and learning" is positive.  Let the guilt (and even the idea of it and its name) dissipate.

There are only so many breaths you take in a day, and the more that are positive, the more positive your life is.  

In case you haven't subscribed to Just Add Light and Stir, today's is about producing happiness.

It has a picture of Adam Daniel.  :-)  Some people here know Adam.  He spoke at a symposium in Albuquerque a couple of years ago.

-=- Of course she says "oh, I wish I would have known about this for all of you!  Or I wish my parents had done this with me!" Whenever she shares her regrets with me, it makes me feel irritated and resentful, so I know this is not a good approach to have with my own children.-=-

I did think, from the time my oldest was a baby, that it would have been nice is my mother had... [been gentle, given me options, smiled more] and then I would do that for Kirby.  And when I did the nice thing for him, with the thought that I wished it had been done for me, it was an exhale, not a pissed-off inhale..  It was relaxing into being his mother as well as I could be.

Sandra

Sandra Dodd

-=-Can I ask for insight about knowing how to include very loving close grandparents who are also very fearful, negative, and relentless when it comes to givng unwanted advice or their view of how things are. We have yet to even let my parents know what we are doing because of the negative, possibly sarcastic comments made to my children while they are settling into unschooling. -=-

Although you wrote "very loving close..." you described people who are controlling and harsh.  "Relentless" is a pretty extreme word.  

How old are your kids?  That might matter, in the advice given.

-=-. I have been contemplating how to gently tell them and let them know how things will play out if they choose not to support us. I know that sounds threatening, but I am a gentle communicator and  what I mean to say is I will let them know the possible approaches ranging from questioning us, to staying out of it, to actually supporting us and opening to the idea of good (which would be awesome.) -=-

"Opening to the idea of good"?  Could you rephrase that, please?  I'm honestly not sure what you mean.  
Relaxing enough to see the positives?

-=- my daughter is unsettled about not sharing it with them. I told her we know this is right for us and it would really open a can of worms.-=-

It might be better for everyone, even you, if you think of it as trying it for now.  How can you really "KNOW" this is right for you if you're hesitant to tell your own parents?  
How can it be reassuring for your daughter for you to ask her to be secretive for fear of opening a can of worms? 

I have links to some ideas.  Some of them might be useful to you.  

Getting a copy of Pam Laricchia's book Free to Learn would be a good idea.  It's easily available in paperback.  You could give your mom a copy and say you're going to try this as long as it's working, and you could use her help.  If she wants to discuss it, ask her to read the book first (and you read it too; maybe get two copies) and that you can discuss it with her after she's read it.

This gives you time and backup.  She won't be arguing with you, if she argues, but with Pam Laricchia. :-)  So there will be that triangulation, to deflect some of the pressure.  But she might read it and see the sense in it right away.  And if she doesn't see it right away, you can ask her to keep her concerns to herself so she doesn't mess it up for your kids.

But tell her that if it doesn't work, school will still be there.  

Depending how pushy she is, you might need to point out (later, not right up front) that your mother will not be the one who decides whether it's working or not.


Sandra

janine davies

-=--=-Let the guilt go and focus on all the joy and learning. -=-


>>>I am posting this to my desktop! <<<

>>>Just the last part.  Not "The GUILT."<<<

>>>"Focus on all the joy and learning" is positive.  Let the guilt (and even the idea of it and its name) dissipate.<<<

Thank you for this - I am posting my own words up without the GUILT bit! Even the idea of it, and its name are dissipating away. Emoji







To: [email protected]
From: Sandra@...
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2014 06:02:32 -0700
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Oh the guilt

 
-=--=-Let the guilt go and focus on all the joy and learning. -=-

I am posting this to my desktop! 

Just the last part.  Not "The GUILT."

"Focus on all the joy and learning" is positive.  Let the guilt (and even the idea of it and its name) dissipate.

There are only so many breaths you take in a day, and the more that are positive, the more positive your life is.  

In case you haven't subscribed to Just Add Light and Stir, today's is about producing happiness.

It has a picture of Adam Daniel.  :-)  Some people here know Adam.  He spoke at a symposium in Albuquerque a couple of years ago.

-=- Of course she says "oh, I wish I would have known about this for all of you!  Or I wish my parents had done this with me!" Whenever she shares her regrets with me, it makes me feel irritated and resentful, so I know this is not a good approach to have with my own children.-=-

I did think, from the time my oldest was a baby, that it would have been nice is my mother had... [been gentle, given me options, smiled more] and then I would do that for Kirby.  And when I did the nice thing for him, with the thought that I wished it had been done for me, it was an exhale, not a pissed-off inhale..  It was relaxing into being his mother as well as I could be.

Sandra

janine davies

My Mum is coming over from Oz to visit in July after 2 years of not seeing us, except on Skype, She knows the boys are at home now but thats it really - I do send a lot of photos of experiments, crafts, flowers grown, lego builds ,days out etc…but I was worried about how she will react, and what she will say - out loud (mainly about bedtime, freedom of the fridge, Gaming, etc….) she is by nature very negative, and draining, and speaks thoughtlessly and un kindly a lot, she was a very dominating mother who used to hit me and punish me a lot, she found my spirit difficult, as she know finds my eldest sons.

I sent her Pam larrachias book "Free to Learn" and a letter, I asked if she would read the book as things have changed and I am worried that she may be confused with our family life now. I also said that I hoped that I can and will reassure her while she is here, and Pam's book will be a big help with that too. I said that mostly I hope that the peace in our family life, and how positive and joyful we are to be around will be proof enough of how well this is working for us, for now.

I also and as gently as I could explained that it has been a long journey to here, and very well researched, and I have absolute faith in it , and I would appreciate that if there are things that she is worried about and wants to talk through with me that we do that away from the boys so that they feel as little negativity from her as possible - as she is important to them, and that they are looking forward to her visit so much, and also I reminded her how sensitive my eldest is and that he will pick up on any disapproval from her.

I am not saying absolutely do this, its a suggestion - an idea, I have worked through a lot in my nearly 50 yrs to accept my mum, and face her with courage and confidence, but it did have good results for me and she wrote back a very positive email, sweet even - which surprised me! 

She promised to read the book, She said she can see the boys are happy from the photos, and she will look to me if she is confused by something, and that she is just looking forward to spending time with them and me. I was and am very grateful for this reply, and feel very positive about her visit now. 

Something Sandra wrote some time back gave me a boost too - she wrote about her children's Grandmother visiting and her worries that her negativity would harm the kids, and she wrote about them having such a full cup of positivity that a few negative words from an old lady they didn't see very often didn't even begin to empty their cup. Maybe Sandra will write the exact words again for us, I found them to be wonderful, inspiring, encouraging words to keep firmly in mind.

Janine


CASS KOTRBA

-=-Can I ask for insight about knowing how to include very loving close grandparents who are also very fearful, negative, and relentless when it comes to givng unwanted advice or their view of how things are.-=-
 
This is a good article that might be useful for introducing the idea to grandparents:  http://zenhabits.net/unschool/
 
My parents spend winters in Arizona and summers with us so when we started Unschooling I wanted them to have a pretty good idea of what we were up to before they came for the summer.  I would forward posts that I thought were really on point that I thought they'd would be able to relate to.  When they were here I strategically placed Pam's book & Sandra's "Big Book of Unschooling" in the bathroom where I knew they'd have time to read if they felt motivated to.  I think the fact that they were here in the summer made it easier because people expect kids to be on summer vacation at that time.  They did quiz my kids a bit & tried to teach them about things but overall it went pretty well.  It definitely helped to prep my parents (and my kids about the quizzing & stuff).  I'm not sure if they read everything that I sent but at least they got the point that I was actively reading and learning about Unschooling, not simply throwing caution & their only grandchildren's futures to the wind!

I am curious to see what kind of changes they observe in the kids this year.  They've changed so much!  (The kids, not the grandparents.  :D)
-Cass

D. Regan

Self centered behavior.  I did my best to switch it right around today.

If you're in a habit of being self-centered, it will take time to be able to "switch it right around" for long.  Often the habit will switch it right back.  It takes time, awareness, patience with the process, and focus on doing better moment by moment, to loosen the habit.

 It breaks my heart, but she encourages me because even at her age (when most people are assumed to be "who they are") she fights to change.

Fighting to change will keep her attached to the things she wants to let go of.  Better for her to let go of them and start afresh peacefully.  

 My guilt has motivated me.  I'm working on letting it go.  And definitely not putting it onto my children anymore.  Praying for release and moving forward.

You may find that guilt continues to return as you make progress.  It is not a one-time thing that you can put behind you.  There will probably be many layers to the guilt and other emotions you feel, as you continue to deschool.  Be open to it, let it go and make better choices as you learn more.   

Debbie





Sandra Dodd

This might "seem like semantics," but it's not.

Debbie Regan wrote the response here:

______________
> It breaks my heart, but she encourages me because even at her age (when most people are assumed to be "who they are") she fights to change.

-=-Fighting to change will keep her attached to the things she wants to let go of. Better for her to let go of them and start afresh peacefully. -=-

______________

When someone says "I struggle with..." the answer is "stop struggling." Not to give up on change, but instead of struggling with the old thing, turn all the way away from it, and do the new thing. BE the new thing.

Sandra

Sandra Dodd

-=-She promised to read the book, She said she can see the boys are happy from the photos, and she will look to me if she is confused by something, and that she is just looking forward to spending time with them and me. I was and am very grateful for this reply, and feel very positive about her visit now.-=-

This is really great!

I don't know about that quote about my mother-in-law.  When I saw it later I thought it seemed very harsh.  TRUE!  But harsh.  But I thought I was glad she was dead and couldn't stumble upon it.

When I was first reading what you were paraphrasing having written to your mom, Janine, the word-packrat in me was thinking "SEND IT!" so we sould see it, save it, use it as a template.  But the next paragraph was so sweet about your mom that I want to spare her finding anything that was harsh about her.  :-)


Sandra

<lisajceledon@...>

<<=-. I have been contemplating how to gently tell them and let them know how things will play out if they choose not to support us. I know that sounds threatening, but >>

It IS threatening.  "Support us or else."  It's also not very supportive.  You want THEM to support YOU, but are you willing to support them?
There was a time, when my first son was much younger, that I considered ultimatums like, if you're not going to be more supportive, than we aren't going to bring him to see you as often.  I'm REALLY glad I never said anything like that.  My attitude and my fears at the time did enough damage to our relationship without the added spoken threats I'd considered making.

Because they love my children so much, and I am so grateful for that, and my children love their grandparents, it's important to me to do what I can to support them all in having a loving, happy relationship.  

My in-laws are also very controlling, and critical.  My MIL suffers from chronic pain, and addiction, and can be so negative that she's toxic to spend much time with.  However, my in-laws LOVE their grandchildren, very dearly.  Their fears and attempts at controlling what we do with them are based on that love.  There are a lot of people who confuse love with attempts to control or meddle.  They don't know how to separate them.  Understanding that, and having compassion for them, and loving them has helped me so much to turn my relationship with my in-laws around.

Instead of worrying about unwanted advice or criticism, focus on being positive and proactive.  Set encounters up where everyone will be at their best.  Parks and children's museums work well for us.  I've found that focusing on "what can I do to help everyone have a good time?" instead of, "what can I do to prevent situations that will provoke criticism from occurring?" helps tremendously.  Last time my in-laws were here (this past weekend), they wanted to take us out to dinner.  That would *not* be a nice thing for my two year old to do.  I politely declined the invitation for myself and my toddler, and suggested they take my husband and 4-yr old (who knows how to behave at a restaurant, and likes to eat out) instead.  They were unhappy with the suggestion, so I smiled and said, "don't worry, Kaiden and I will have a happy little toddler-fun dinner at home, you guys will have a great time out, and we'll all be together again tomorrow."  I could tell they were still a little unhappy, because to them, children should be convenient and quiet and be what the parents need them to be to do what other adults want them to do.  I don't agree, but I don't need to explain that to them.  I left it as it was, knowing they *would* have a much better time with just the people who were happy and capable to go out to eat, and that is ultimately what everyone wants - to enjoy their time. :)   

"Relentless" - a word you used to describe your children's grandparents - is a GREAT word to describe my mother in law. I can say though, that the more I am loving and courteous of her, and learn how to not let her attitude, or attempts at control, draw me into negativity, I find that she has become a little less relentless, with me.  She has even told me recently that she really respects that I stand up for myself and my family (though she hasn't stopped trying to control us completely, and followed the remark up with how really though, we ought to listen to her on 'x' matter, because.... etc....)  :)  

When criticism and negativity show up, and I'm in a happy, kindness-focused place, how to shift it, or ignore it, or gently waft it away comes easily.  Worrying about it in advance (or ever, at all) has only hindered me, never helped me do anything positive about it.  It hardens my heart and makes navigating our relationship a lot more difficult.

Lisa C 

<lisajceledon@...>

<<so we sould see it, save it, use it as a template. >>

That whole story warmed my heart!  And, even though harsh things were said about the mom, the evidence of her love and kindness and the ability to try to accept and change was there too, in her reply.  So sweet!

Personally, I'm saving that email, as a reference.  :)

Lisa C

Lorna Laurie

<"Relentless" - a word you used to describe your children's grandparents - is a GREAT word to describe my mother in law. I can say though, that the more I am loving and courteous of her, and learn how to not let her attitude, or attempts at control, draw me into negativity, I find that she has become a little less relentless, with me.  She has even told me recently that she really respects that I stand up for myself and my family (though she hasn't stopped trying to control us completely, and followed the remark up with how really though, we ought to listen to her on 'x' matter, because.... etc....)  :)  >

Thank you very much for your response. It's funny because I used the word relentless because it's most applicale but with a chuckle because we laugh about it...it's the name my aunt endearingly gave to my mother, so I was using my aunt's term.

It is true, I have had trouble allowing them in when I know they're going to be relentless in trying to change our plans for us on any given matter, but that's why I'm writing here. ...for input

My mother also  greatly respects my strength and my decisions which have not always been things she can embrace because of fear. We have wonderful discussions and have grown together through the years, BUT I think the reason I have been fearful about letting them in is because I still don't feel rock solid 100% of the time in terms of being TOTALLY sure about letting school go. I AM TOTALLY sure BUT moments of fear/doubt do still slip in from time to time so I was really buying myself some time to be really solid on this...which, fortunately, Sandra gave me a concrete plan on doing : )


On Tuesday, February 25, 2014 7:48 PM, "lisajceledon@..." <lisajceledon@...> wrote:
 
<<=-. I have been contemplating how to gently tell them and let them know how things will play out if they choose not to support us. I know that sounds threatening, but >>

It IS threatening.  "Support us or else."  It's also not very supportive.  You want THEM to support YOU, but are you willing to support them?
There was a time, when my first son was much younger, that I considered ultimatums like, if you're not going to be more supportive, than we aren't going to bring him to see you as often.  I'm REALLY glad I never said anything like that.  My attitude and my fears at the time did enough damage to our relationship without the added spoken threats I'd considered making.

Because they love my children so much, and I am so grateful for that, and my children love their grandparents, it's important to me to do what I can to support them all in having a loving, happy relationship.  

My in-laws are also very controlling, and critical.  My MIL suffers from chronic pain, and addiction, and can be so negative that she's toxic to spend much time with.  However, my in-laws LOVE their grandchildren, very dearly.  Their fears and attempts at controlling what we do with them are based on that love.  There are a lot of people who confuse love with attempts to control or meddle.  They don't know how to separate them.  Understanding that, and having compassion for them, and loving them has helped me so much to turn my relationship with my in-laws around.

Instead of worrying about unwanted advice or criticism, focus on being positive and proactive.  Set encounters up where everyone will be at their best.  Parks and children's museums work well for us.  I've found that focusing on "what can I do to help everyone have a good time?" instead of, "what can I do to prevent situations that will provoke criticism from occurring?" helps tremendously.  Last time my in-laws were here (this past weekend), they wanted to take us out to dinner.  That would *not* be a nice thing for my two year old to do.  I politely declined the invitation for myself and my toddler, and suggested they take my husband and 4-yr old (who knows how to behave at a restaurant, and likes to eat out) instead.  They were unhappy with the suggestion, so I smiled and said, "don't worry, Kaiden and I will have a happy little toddler-fun dinner at home, you guys will have a great time out, and we'll all be together again tomorrow."  I could tell they were still a little unhappy, because to them, children should be convenient and quiet and be what the parents need them to be to do what other adults want them to do.  I don't agree, but I don't need to explain that to them.  I left it as it was, knowing they *would* have a much better time with just the people who were happy and capable to go out to eat, and that is ultimately what everyone wants - to enjoy their time. :)   

"Relentless" - a word you used to describe your children's grandparents - is a GREAT word to describe my mother in law. I can say though, that the more I am loving and courteous of her, and learn how to not let her attitude, or attempts at control, draw me into negativity, I find that she has become a little less relentless, with me.  She has even told me recently that she really respects that I stand up for myself and my family (though she hasn't stopped trying to control us completely, and followed the remark up with how really though, we ought to listen to her on 'x' matter, because.... etc....)  :)  

When criticism and negativity show up, and I'm in a happy, kindness-focused place, how to shift it, or ignore it, or gently waft it away comes easily.  Worrying about it in advance (or ever, at all) has only hindered me, never helped me do anything positive about it.  It hardens my heart and makes navigating our relationship a lot more difficult.

Lisa C 



Megan Valnes

-=-When someone says "I struggle with..." the answer is "stop struggling." Not to give up on change, but instead of struggling with the old thing, turn all the way away from it, and do the new thing. BE the new thing.-=-

What Debbie said and what you are saying really resonates with me.  It doesn't sound like semantics.  When I read it back, I got it right away.  Yes, be the new thing.  My mom has a hard time with that, but my husband and I always say "fake it till you make it".  

The first time I discovered the power of BEING the new thing was in high school.  I had a terrible habit of looking at myself in the mirrot, always asking my friends how I looked, and being terribly self conscious (my mom, grandmother, and sisters are what I call "lookists"--they are prejudiced towards people over how they look. One day, a friend of mine said "Megan, stop asking!  You are always asking how you look!  It's so annoying"

Being annoyed at myself just as much as anyone else was, I made a resolution to stop asking.  And to stop looking at myself constantly.  I didn't tell myself to stop thinking those thoughts, but just to stop acting on them.  To fake it.  And I did.  I stopped asking and stopped looking.  Lo and behold, the thoughts started to recede.  If I had a big pimple, I would actually FORGET about it while I was out and about!  For me, that was life changing.  And now, all these years later, I still don't ask people how I look, I don't think about it once I leave the house, I feel pretty great about myself, and I'm not obsessing in my head about whether or not I look good.  

Sorry if that's way off-topic, but the power of being what it is one wants to be is immense and liberating.

Another great day in my new world of Unschooling!!!!  


On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 9:41 AM, Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
 

This might "seem like semantics," but it's not.

Debbie Regan wrote the response here:

______________


> It breaks my heart, but she encourages me because even at her age (when most people are assumed to be "who they are") she fights to change.

-=-Fighting to change will keep her attached to the things she wants to let go of. Better for her to let go of them and start afresh peacefully. -=-

______________

When someone says "I struggle with..." the answer is "stop struggling." Not to give up on change, but instead of struggling with the old thing, turn all the way away from it, and do the new thing. BE the new thing.

Sandra




--
Warm regards,
Megan Valnes
Agent | Partner
Valnes Bell Realtors
310.367.0433 | m
310.390.6280 | o



janine davies

>>>When I was first reading what you were paraphrasing having written to your mom, Janine, the word-packrat in me was thinking "SEND IT!" so we sould see it, save it, use it as a template.  But the next paragraph was so sweet about your mom that I want to spare her finding anything that was harsh about her.  :-)<<<

I wrote a little harshly about her though didn't I…and Lisa's email pointed that out too.

>>>That whole story warmed my heart!  And, even though harsh things were said about the mom, the evidence of her love and kindness and the ability to try to accept and change was there too, in her reply.  So sweet!<<< 

But its true (but clearly shifting!), and I think I needed too convey this first - so that you could get the sweetness and kindness in her reply, and my surprise that she had written back to me like this - with sweetness, and positivity, and I think and hope it shows how much all of us unschoolers really are sending ripples out to our families, and really making a difference and changing deep engrained ideas and paradigms, they will of course still need our support and our help with their confusion, but using and showing the positivity and gratitude from us all the way.

Chuck the anger and negativity out with the guilt , and as Sandra said 
>>>Let the guilt (and even the idea of it and its name) dissipate.<<< 


Janine







To: [email protected]
From: Sandra@...
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2014 13:56:36 -0700
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Oh the guilt

 
-=-She promised to read the book, She said she can see the boys are happy from the photos, and she will look to me if she is confused by something, and that she is just looking forward to spending time with them and me. I was and am very grateful for this reply, and feel very positive about her visit now.-=-

This is really great!

I don't know about that quote about my mother-in-law.  When I saw it later I thought it seemed very harsh.  TRUE!  But harsh.  But I thought I was glad she was dead and couldn't stumble upon it.

When I was first reading what you were paraphrasing having written to your mom, Janine, the word-packrat in me was thinking "SEND IT!" so we sould see it, save it, use it as a template.  But the next paragraph was so sweet about your mom that I want to spare her finding anything that was harsh about her.  :-)


Sandra


Sandra Dodd

-=- For me, that was life changing. And now, all these years later, I still don't ask people how I look, I don't think about it once I leave the house, I feel pretty great about myself, and I'm not obsessing in my head about whether or not I look good.

-=-Sorry if that's way off-topic, but the power of being what it is one wants to be is immense and liberating.-=-

I don't think it's off topic at all. It was a great example of where attention (and communication) was, and the changes that happened by shifting that.

If a parent labels a child a certain way, introduces him that way, joins groups of mothers who have labelled their children that way.... THAT is where the mom lives. Not with her child directly, but with the "problem" that child is.

Some people will bristle and say but a child might have a serious disability and the parent shouldn't ignore that. I'm not saying to ignore what youre child needs. I'm saying learn his name, learn his heart, don't summarize him by one attribute to the detriment of seeing the other thousand facets and interests.

Sandra

Megan Valnes

Hi Lorna,

I thought I might also suggest to subscribe to Pam Laricchia's bi-weekly newsletter called Journey into Unschooling.  It's 10 weeks long and incredibly helpful.  My husband and I are signed up.  I forward every issue to my mom, dad, stepmom, MIL, and the kid's babysitter.  We're a pretty close knit family, so everyone really needs to know what's going on.

I'm brand new at this too and I've found it helps a lot to send the grandparents information written by other people with way more experience than I.

My mom is also coming with us to a conference this summer, so I'm really excited for her to meet some other successful unschooling families.  You may consider that as well.