<adr1ka@...>

Thank you for all your comments to my original question. After thinking them through I think I still have some negative feelings about watching tv/video and although I can appreciate my kids interest in it after a few hours the old feelings creap back in and I blaim it on the noise but probably it is the activity that irritates me. So more reading on the topic is needed and more focusing on my children's enjoyment then hopefully my irritation will not rise up. And some of you said that I can do other things as long as I'm nearby and available which will help me in this process.

The headphones is something we tried the other day because there were three devices on at once in our livingroom, but it felt like my DD was shut away from us by using headphones. She didn't share her excitement and tell us about what she was watching and I couldn't join in watching it with her because she didn't want to take the headphones off so I could hear her movie. Is that really a good idea?

I tried opening up a discussion with DD on finding a solution for how we can let everyone watch what they want (maybe taking turns) but she says NO to all options. (she is 4.5 and says NO to most things still).

So I guess the headphones are the only way.?

Joyce Fetteroll

On Jan 2, 2014, at 7:04 AM, <adr1ka@...> <adr1ka@...> wrote:

> I couldn't join in watching it with her because she didn't want to take the
> headphones off so I could hear her movie. Is that really a good idea?

There's rarely a perfect solution. The question is, "Which option will help create more peace, more joyful learning *this* time?"

> So I guess the headphones are the only way.?

Don't back yourself into believing a problem has only one solution. Don't pick one solution for all time.

http://sandradodd.com/depends
http://sandradodd.com/choice

If headphones work in a situation, use them. But also keep thinking of other options as kids change, as situations change.

Joyce

Sandra Dodd

-=-I tried opening up a discussion with DD on finding a solution for how we can let everyone watch what they want (maybe taking turns) but she says NO to all options. (she is 4.5 and says NO to most things still).-=-

No one is "4.5" more than six months.

If your daughter is in charge of who does what, how is that better than YOU being in charge of who does what?  It might be a case of "If you don't like the answer, you shouldn't have asked the question."


Adrienn Fulop

>>>If your daughter is in charge of who does what, how is that better than YOU being in charge of who does what? It might be a case of "If you don't like the answer, you shouldn't have asked the question."<<<

Could you explain this to me Sandra, I am sure you intended to help me how to approach this situation better but I don't get it.
Thanks
Adrienn

> On 6 Jan 2014, at 07:16, Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
> If your daughter is in charge of who does what, how is that better than YOU being in charge of who does what? It might be a case of "If you don't like the answer, you shouldn't have asked the question."

Joyce Fetteroll


>>>If your daughter is in charge of who does what, how is that better than YOU
being in charge of who does what? It might be a case of "If you don't like the
answer, you shouldn't have asked the question."<<<

Could you explain this to me Sandra, I am sure you intended to help me
how to approach this situation better but I don't get it. 

I read the original statement "I tried opening up a discussion with DD on finding a solution for how we can let everyone watch what they want (maybe taking turns) but she says NO to all options." as trying to draw the child into coming up with some ideas that could also be tried.

I think maybe Sandra read it as the mom not fixing the situation unless the daughter agreed with the solution. It was like the daughter holding the family hostage until she got what she wanted (regardless of who else it inconvenienced.)

Which is just a guess as I'm trying to make a different point ...

Whose reading matches the original poster's meaning isn't as important as seeing ways some of the 3000+ people might read the words.

Which is why it's often emphasized here to write clearly. 3000 people will read the words, not the intended words. They'll be thinking about the situation the words paint for them. If words paint a picture of mom in the kitchen while the kids are falling apart in the family room, that's the situation that is most useful to address for the members, whether it matches what's going on in the poster's home or not.

Joyce

Sandra Dodd

-=->>>If your daughter is in charge of who does what, how is that better than YOU being in charge of who does what? It might be a case of "If you don't like the answer, you shouldn't have asked the question."<<<

-=-Could you explain this to me Sandra, I am sure you intended to help me how to approach this situation better but I don't get it. -=-

Why is your daughte rin charge of what othe other kids do?
If you asked her whether it was okay to do something, and then didn't like her response, then you shouldn't have asked.  

If I ask my daughter "Can you unload the dishwasher please?" She might say yes.  She might say "No, sorry, I'm supposed to be somewhere in ten minutes."
If I asked her when she was really little "Do you want to wear a coat out in the snow?" and she said "no," it would have been my fault for not saying "There's snow, here's a coat."

Parents cannot (in practical, legal or moral terms) allow children to be in charge.

There have been parents who didn't think clearly when they started unschooling,  and they gave their children too much "power."  One family bragged that all financial decisions were made by the whole family, with equal votes.  I doubt six year olds know or care much about mortgages or taxes or retirement funds. 

Giving children options and "freedom" in ways that don't take options or freedom away from other people is wonderful.  Imagining that one can give a child "total freedom" is not bright. 

Blaming a child for making a decision that should hever have been her decision to make isn't practical, logical or moral.

(I've read Joyce's response to the question, and she's right about what I was thinking.)

Sandra

Adrienn Fulop

>>I tried opening up a discussion with DD on finding a solution for how we can let everyone watch what they want (maybe taking turns) but she says NO to all options. (she is 4.5 and says NO to most things still).<<

By this I meant that I say we have a situation and we need to find a way that is good for everyone. I ask her to help find a way and we all come up with ideas. In the end we are struggling to find the solution because she finds our ideas unacceptable and we find hers unacceptable. 
The only way remained was using headphones to watch her program on the computer. And because she was very shut away from us by the headphones I asked the group's opinion if that was a good way to go? I wanted to know if other Unschooling families do it too?Because it is important to join in my daughter's interest and it is hard to do that if she uses the headphones. 
Sorry if my post was confusing. 

Adrienn 



On 6 Jan 2014, at 20:51, Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:

 

-=->>>If your daughter is in charge of who does what, how is that better than YOU being in charge of who does what? It might be a case of "If you don't like the answer, you shouldn't have asked the question."<<<

-=-Could you explain this to me Sandra, I am sure you intended to help me how to approach this situation better but I don't get it. -=-


Why is your daughte rin charge of what othe other kids do?
If you asked her whether it was okay to do something, and then didn't like her response, then you shouldn't have asked.  

If I ask my daughter "Can you unload the dishwasher please?" She might say yes.  She might say "No, sorry, I'm supposed to be somewhere in ten minutes."
If I asked her when she was really little "Do you want to wear a coat out in the snow?" and she said "no," it would have been my fault for not saying "There's snow, here's a coat."

Parents cannot (in practical, legal or moral terms) allow children to be in charge.

There have been parents who didn't think clearly when they started unschooling,  and they gave their children too much "power."  One family bragged that all financial decisions were made by the whole family, with equal votes.  I doubt six year olds know or care much about mortgages or taxes or retirement funds. 

Giving children options and "freedom" in ways that don't take options or freedom away from other people is wonderful.  Imagining that one can give a child "total freedom" is not bright. 

Blaming a child for making a decision that should hever have been her decision to make isn't practical, logical or moral.

(I've read Joyce's response to the question, and she's right about what I was thinking.)

Sandra

Sandra Dodd

-=- I wanted to know if other Unschooling families do it too?Because it is important to join in my daughter's interest and it is hard to do that if she uses the headphones. 
Sorry if my post was confusing. -=-

It wasn't confusing.  

You're still confused and looking for rules. 

It doesn't matter what other unschooling families do so much as it matters WHY, and what cames of it, and what the range of options is.

-=-In the end we are struggling to find the solution because she finds our ideas unacceptable and we find hers unacceptable. -=-

Be
Careful
with 
your WRITING.

"In the end"? 
If it's the end, put her in school.

Don't write "in the end" if you don't really mean "in the end."

If you're writing in idiomatic chunks of other people's phrases, then that's the way you're thinking, which means you're thinking in lumps and images you aren't really looking at.

If "in the end" you are STRUGGLING (no matter that I've objected to the word "struggle" two or three times in a week), and you're at an impasse, then you have ignored the ideas people have offered up.

Read a little, try a little, wait a while, watch.

If you are antagonized and antagonizing, you are not being your daughter's partner.  


Sandra

Joyce Fetteroll

On Jan 6, 2014, at 6:46 PM, Adrienn Fulop <adr1ka@...> wrote:

> In the end we are struggling to find the solution because she finds
> our ideas unacceptable and we find hers unacceptable.

I suspect your struggle is making it more difficult for her. You're thinking if you just keep trying you'll find a solution she'll be happy with. But until she's mature enough to take more than herself into account, she's going to reject solutions that aren't perfect for her. What she needs right now isn't more solutions to reject. She needs a calm, peaceful and centered presence in her life. Certainly give her the opportunity to offer an idea, but don't draw the process out.

You're feeding her frustration with your frustration. She needs someone who is calm. If you can't be calm, peaceful and centered, how can she be?

Part of her frustration in general may be that she recognizes her powerlessness in the world. Find ways she can be powerful in her life that don't impact others. Stools so she can turn lights on and reach water faucets. Snacks she doesn't have to ask for help with. Look at how the world is frustrating her and find ways for her not to be frustrated. You *won't* be able to fix everything. But the fewer things that frustrate her, the more energy she'll have for the times when the situation can't be changed.

> And because she was very shut away from us by the headphones I asked
> the group's opinion if that was a good way to go? I wanted to know if other
> Unschooling families do it too?Because it is important to join in my daughter's
> interest and it is hard to do that if she uses the headphones.

You're looking for the one right answer. You're looking for perfection. There is no one right answer for all time for anything in life.

Make a more peaceful choice. Be more peaceful. That's way more doable -- and useful! -- than perfection.

Help her be happy. Help her be happy in ways that don't bother other people's peace. Don't make it more complicated than that.

Perhaps part of the problem is you're seeing all the ideals as equally important. But happy and disconnected is better than connected and unhappy.

Perhaps you're trying to make people happy rather than creating a more peaceful home. A calm understanding mom and an upset child is more peaceful than an upset child and a flustered mom trying to get the child to not be upset!

Joyce

Juliet Kemp

On Tue, Jan 07, 2014 at 08:02:02AM -0500, Joyce Fetteroll wrote:
>
> Perhaps part of the problem is you're seeing all the ideals as equally
> important. But happy and disconnected is better than connected and
> unhappy.

Reading this made me think: are there other ways you can be connected
with her, while she's wearing the headphones? Could you cuddle with her
while she's watching? Sometimes I sit with my toddler on my lap while he
has his iPad and I'm reading a book or something on my phone. I can't
necessarily hear what he's watching (especially if he wants a CD/the TV
on at the same time!) but I will sometimes look for a while, and I'm
there to help if needed, and we have nice snuggly physical contact.


Juliet

<plaidpanties666@...>

>>we have a situation and we need to find a way that is good for everyone<<


It helps to step back from thinking there's "A way" - one perfect solution for always. That's not realistic - situations change, one day isn't the same as the next, and kids get older. The perfect solution one day will have serious problems on another because the variables will change, peoples desires will change. 

Headphones are a good example. If "the" problem is noise grating on you, then they have a certain amount of value. But they also create a barrier to communication. It's not a perfect solution... but there Is no perfect solution most of the time. Life is messy and variable.

So some days maybe she can start watching whatever it is with you, and after awhile you can step away and she can plug in. Maybe you can re-orient the tv/computer so that you can see the screen from elsewhere and come over now and then and ask to be included. Maybe in good weather, with the windows open, the sound won't trouble you so much. Maybe over time you'll get used to it, or she'll find a new favorite with more harmonious voices. Maybe you can get a white noise generator of some kind (a fish tank, music, recorded ambient sounds) and use it some of the time. Maybe you can get headphones and an MP3 player for yourself. 


When Mo was little, I came across a complete set of Rocky and Bullwinkle tapes (VHS, it's been a few years). Mo enjoyed them. I found them a balm after too many hours of Dora the Explorer. But I also watched some Dora with her and got used to the voices. I rearranged furniture so that when she wanted Dora instead of Moose and Squirrel I could be near her but the tv wasn't facing me - so the sound wasn't as intense. I found Dora video games and discovered she doesn't repeat herself Nearly as much in the game. I expanded our video library with more movies and shows to add variety - not just for me, but because I thought she'd like some other things, too. We had an old tv, so headphones weren't on option, but they became one later on, with newer technology.