<bonniecrocker2003@...>

Hi everyone,

 

My name is Bonnie and I have 3 kids, ages 10-12.  I've unschooled them all their life and am familiar with many of you as I'm a long time lurker and have been on several lists.  I usually just read and absorb.  I went to a unschooling conference years ago in Peabody, Massachusetts.  

 

I posted this concern some time ago on AlwaysUnschooled and know that a few of them are on this list so I apologize for the repeat but I'm still having this concern and I haven't found any posts that are similar to the issue I am having although I'm sure they are out there.  I thought since several of you have grown kids, you might be able to provide some insight into this issue.

 

This concerns my son who is 12 1/2.  I relaxed when you all told me he would read which he did at age 10 1/2.  However, I don't feel as confident about his writing skills.  Any attempts to get him to write are met with resistance.  If he senses any anxiety coming from me or his father, he will visibly become upset and hang his head. I feel terrible when that happens.

 

What prompted me to write to this list today is because when I was out, apparently my kids were fooling around and broke a decoration.  My son wrote the following in all caps:  YEE R SORRY  HER'S 1$ 1 c (two lines drawn through the c)  This is suppose to say We are sorry.  Here's $1 and 1 euro.  The lines for the euro were vertical instead of horizontal. We live in Germany.  My first thought was how nice that they offered to pay for the damage:)

 

The $ sign was backwards. He does this often. When spelling his name the other day, he wrote the N backwards.  I've tried a couple of suggestions from the other list such as Mad Libs and writing emails.  He wasn't interested in the Mad Libs and if he even checks his email(rarely), he will reply with as few words as possible.

 

One thing is that he likes to hang with the family so he is never in any position where he would be asked to write such as filling out a form or giving feedback.  Truthfully, I'm glad as he would probably be humiliated.  One time a long time ago he went to the teen center and had to sign his name and the receptionist stared at him as he painstakingly wrote his name. 

 

At this point, he writes his name and that is about it.  He won't even do that unless he has to.  He got upset one day when I was going out and told him that a package would probably arrive while I was gone and asked if he could sign for it.  He said do I have to?  He spends his days on the computer playing PS3.  He is happy doing that and does little else.  He is also involved in basketball and bowling and we do many family activities on the weekends and during the week sometimes.

 

He is unable to spell the simplest of words and has no concept regarding sentence structure or punctuation. 

 

I'm at a loss.  What do I do to help him without coming across like I am shaming him?  When do I get concerned? Should I be concerned?  I always try and encourage him to do new things and try what he wants.  He still sleeps with me as well as his two siblings. He is very young compared to your typical 12 year old and he is sensitive to the fact that he is smaller than the majority of 12 year olds and could easily pass for a 9 or 10 year old.  He cries very easily whenever the slightest frustration arises.  He sucks his thumb at night.  Could this possibly fall under some type of developmental delay?  Am I trying to make some sort of bizarre correlation?

 

I would appreciate any feedback that can help me see this another way or help me to help him or just find peace.  While I was concerned a little about his late reading, somehow I knew it would come about but I don't see writing as evolving the same way or am I wrong?

 

Thank you, Bonnie

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sandra Dodd

-=- Any attempts to get him to write are met with resistance.  If he senses any anxiety coming from me or his father, he will visibly become upset and hang his head. I feel terrible when that happens.
-=-

You SHOULD feel terrible, if you are attempting to get him to write, and he is resisting, and it has happened more than once.  (You didn't say "That one attempt to get him to write was met with resistance.")

When I was worried about my kids, I bought both Kirby and Marty a spiral notebook, and said if they would fill in the whole book, front page only, with writing (printing), I would a video game. I said I didn't care what they wrote—they could copy out of game guides or books or anything, it was just for handwriting practice.  One game for each of them, for each book finished.  They weren't interested.  It bombed.  They were 11, 13 or so, and video game cartridges cost $50 or $60 in those days.  

So I don't recommend that, unless you happen to think he would kind of enjoy it.  It's probably not a good idea, though, if he hangs his head in shame.

My kids all became more fluent writers in late teens and as young adults  Marty took a test recently in a history class that required an in-class essay.  He said he writes slowly and has a hard time thinking while he's writing.   I have NO guilt about not having provided him the 11 or 12 years of writing, writing, writing nonsense and wasteful repeat that I experienced in school.  I don't think anyone gets that anymore in school either, anyway—not as it once was.

-=-One thing is that he likes to hang with the family so he is never in any position where he would be asked to write such as filling out a form or giving feedback.  Truthfully, I'm glad as he would probably be humiliated.  One time a long time ago he went to the teen center and had to sign his name and the receptionist stared at him as he painstakingly wrote his name. -=-

"Humiliated" is a really strong word.  Uncomfortable or embarrassed might be more like it.  
You can help him the first many times.  Increasingly, forms are filled out on computers.  Many job applications are done by computer these days.

-=-.  He got upset one day when I was going out and told him that a package would probably arrive while I was gone and asked if he could sign for it.  He said do I have to? -=-

When Marty was younger, he failed to write phone numbers down legibly, twice, and I was angry and cranky and told him it was okay to ask them to repeat it and REALLY okay to repeat it back to them, that everyone did that.  But he was super stressed about the whole thing, and didn't even want to answer the phone after that.   He has a phone avoidance thing now, and it's possible that he had that already before the phone number problem, but I'm sure I didn't help.  ;-/

-=-. He is very young compared to your typical 12 year old and he is sensitive to the fact that he is smaller than the majority of 12 year olds and could easily pass for a 9 or 10 year old.  He cries very easily whenever the slightest frustration arises.  He sucks his thumb at night.  Could this possibly fall under some type of developmental delay?  Am I trying to make some sort of bizarre correlation?
-=-

I don't think it's bizarre.  If he's doing other things later, then that should give you good reason to let up on the pressure.

Would things be better for him, given his size and sensitivity if he were in school? 
If he's home, make home comfortable and safe.

If he were in school, he could come home at the end of the day.  If you and your husband start to pressure and shame him and let him know you feel he's not whole and good and right, then where will he get to go for comfort at the end of a long day at "school"?  

Be his comfort.  If he's learning other things, by other means, look at what he IS learning, not at what he isn't.  

And if ne needs to live with you until he's 30, so what?  What if he were unable to walk, or he were blind, or deaf?  Maybe he will never be a great writer or speller or readers.  Maybe there are other things he will do.

I don't know what's available in German to play with that involves any writing at all—any video games or phone messaging or compuer games—but possibly something will come along in a year or two that he's interested in that might involve a bit of writing—even phone messaging.

Sandra



Sandra Dodd

There might be ideas here that would help you, too:
http://sandradodd.com/writing
Telling stories, letting him tell you what a movie or video was about (so that he organizes his thoughts and chooses words without being rushed or corrected), playing with rhyming words, or song lyrics, or things casually about that involve words, might be helpful.

The first writing Marty did was keeping lists of things he was collecting. He did it on his own, for his own private purposes.

Sandra

Gwen Montoya

>

Depending on the PS3 games your son is playing, maybe he would enjoying reading an online forum about them? He could comment (or not).

My kids picked up spelling & sentence structure stuff from playing online games.

Gwen

BRIAN POLIKOWSKY

This is a joke but it is not!
Maybe he is going to grow up and be a doctor!!!

There are many people who are very sucessful and cannot write at all.   Maybe he will never write well or have good "penmanship"

My son has very nice handwriting. He prints like an architect. I had a couple friends who had handwriting similar to my son and was always jealous as I thought they were beautiful. It is really getting nice.
The interesting thing is that he very rarely writes anything by hand!~ He usually types in the computer. But just the other day I asked him to write something in his dad's birthday card and he wrote it beautifully. I even saved it.

But really is a joke around here ( and in Brazil) that doctors cannot write and their handwriting is horrendous! Yet they are doctors!

Here is a great video about teen literacy and video games:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wMk8SqFoEk

http://www.edutopia.org/constance-steinkuehler-interest-driven-learning-video

My brother did not learn to read until he was eleven. He did horrible in school. By the time he was 18 he dropped out and was writing amazing songs and poetry.
I learn to read very early and always did great in school in language studies. I could never write the kind of stuff he did. Still not a great writer. I keep it simple and to the point so I get my ideas through.
 
Alex Polikowsky
 
 
 

Shannon Stoltz

<<This concerns my son who is 12 1/2. ...I don't feel as confident about his writing skills.  Any attempts to get him to write are met with resistance.  If he senses any anxiety coming from me or his father, he will visibly become upset and hang his head. I feel terrible when that happens.>>
Are you confident in his thinking skills? In his ability to articulate a thought?  Writing is one means of communication, and getting things and ideas on paper can happen in a variety of ways. Often when motivation and need is there, it will come. And if it doesn't, speech to text software is great, as are transcriptionists.  You'd be surprised how many authors and business leaders dictate their communications or use ghost writers. 
What is most important is about how *he* feels about his ability to communicate. That he is able to write and what's hard now will be easier later, when it matters for him, to him. 
My boys (ages 14 and almost 12)  are amazing thinkers but both only write when it's important to them.  My oldest son (14)  is often told how good he is with language.  He plays with it, loves to investigate meanings, where words come from, has an adult vocabulary and is completely comfortable and capable of having adult conversations.  But he doesn't write by hand unless is absolutely has to.  He text chats for gaming *all-the time*, but handwriting anything takes *much* longer than most.  
Today on Facebook he shared his thoughts on an unschooling article because he wanted to share his very strong opinion on it. It was a short thing that took him 45 minutes to write, but it was important enough to him to take the time and energy to do so.  He's written online  about gaming and airsoft, because he likes to share his thoughts and contribute to those communities.
When he was 12 he walked out of a boy scout meeting completely frustrated, in tears,  because they expected him to write by hand the answers, quickly.  We supported his decision. There was nothing in the rules that required him to write it by hand. He could have typed it or dictated it, but the leader required by  hand. That wasn't going to work. We supported that. We supported him.  
Last summer he took a biology lab class that required handwritten answers on lab reports. I sat with him for hours, bringing him coffee and snacks, making him smile, while he painstakingly wrote out each answer in as few words as possible while still  being accurate and in a complete sentence. It took him 8 hours to do 20 questions.  But he did it and felt good about the result because it was important to him. 
My younger son (almost 12) has difficulty with language. He's a visual-spatial thinker, language is hard.  When he can dictate his thoughts, he'll "write" pages. When he has to write it himself by hand, it's barely a short sentence.  But if it's important enough to him, he'll handwrite a message, much like your son did, or short labels for his designs. When he starts to get tired or isn't up to writing by hand himself, I'll take his dictation.   It's more important to me that he communicates, that he shares his thoughts and ideas, than the method of communication he chooses to use. It's hard enough to translate his thoughts into words than to make a big deal over the delivery method.  I just love to hear his thoughts and ideas and make sure he knows that and feels safe about sharing them. 

<<The $ sign was backwards. He does this often. When spelling his name the other day, he wrote the N backwards.  I've tried a couple of suggestions from the other list such as Mad Libs and writing emails.  He wasn't interested in the Mad Libs and if he even checks his email(rarely), he will reply with as few words as possible.>>
 He took the time and energy to write something to you that was important. What a great thing! 
On Mad Libs, do you do them orally or are you expecting him to do them in writing? Different skills and thought processes. Separate them. Doing them orally as a family activity is a lot of fun. Doing them by yourself when writing is incredibly  hard is no fun at all. 
Conciseness is good. In professional writing, conciseness is fantastic.   For my older son I had to realize this as a wonderful thing.  When he writes, he painstaking figures out exactly what words and phrasing he wants to use and uses as few words as possible. His writing is very concise, first draft.  His older sister loves to write and will write thousands of words and then spends hours in the editing process to make her writing tighter, more concise, or to fit into a designated word count. He just does it on the front end of his process. 
My younger son also periodically writes letters backwards, or more often words in mirror image. But so did Da Vinci.  Some reports say that Da Vinci only wrote legibly for others when it was important to him that others read his work.  Sometimes I share with my son  stories of great thinkers and inventors to encourage him.  We've also had conversations about how everyone has their strengths, he has talents others don't have, and vice versa. 

<<One thing is that he likes to hang with the family so he is never in any position where he would be asked to write such as filling out a form or giving feedback.  Truthfully, I'm glad as he would probably be humiliated.  One time a long time ago he went to the teen center and had to sign his name and the receptionist stared at him as he painstakingly wrote his name. >>
Eventually the time will come when he needs to fill out a form, but usually it's electronic. My 14 yo son just did his very first form (a job application) by hand.  He knew that he needed time to do it, so he brought it home, took a photocopy of it, and wrote out all the info on the copy first. Then painstakingly copied it over to the original as neatly as he could. (a process my mom taught me when all forms were by hand or typewritten).  He is now talking about buying a typewriter for those special occasions when he needs to fill out a form by hand. It's easier for him. And really it is preferred.   
My son (14) now has a job. All the communication is either in person or  electronic, which he loves. He filled out all the government forms for payroll by hand, over coffee at Starbucks.  Something enjoyable to go with a challenging task, with a little encouraging coaching support from me, explaining what each form was and meant.  He commented, "that was easier than I thought it was going to be."   Getting a job was important to him, so he tackled the paperwork he needed to - because it was important.

<<He is unable to spell the simplest of words and has no concept regarding sentence structure or punctuation. >>
When he needs to write, when it matters to him, he'll ask.  If he can speak coherently then he probably has a handle on sentence structure. Punctuation is easily explained when the need arises.    
In my son's job search he had to write a letter of introduction, a cover letter,  a resume,  and follow up emails. He asked me to proof his writing and we worked through all the punctuation at that time. It was important to him, so each time there was less and less for me to proof.  Now he has a handle on it, better than some of the articles edited when I was a magazine editor. 

<<I'm at a loss.  What do I do to help him without coming across like I am shaming him?  When do I get concerned? Should I be concerned?  I always try and encourage him to do new things and try what he wants.  >>
While I was writing this, I asked my almost 12 yo whether he had any words of advice. He said, "if its important to him, it'll come"   Having been there, I can say that my husband and I have had many behind the door conversations addressing concerns for both boys writing. Concerns that are based on our own schooled-expectations that when we examine them don't hold up to reality.  In school they will only accommodate.  The boys are much better off in situations where we can assist with the writing needs (like at activities) and where they can take the time and energy to write when it's truly important to them.  This is opinion, but my feeling is that it's much better to encourage and support at where they are at,  than to pressure them into something they aren't ready for and create writing blocks and/or phobias.  

<<While I was concerned a little about his late reading, somehow I knew it would come about but I don't see writing as evolving the same way or am I wrong?>>
Our experience is that yes, given  acceptance, time, and encouragement, writing does come - when it's important to them to communicate.  
In our family,  we have living proof to talk about, and say that "not yet, but you will..."  My brother was one of these kids - late reader, writing very very difficult.  At 16 he published his first article in a technical magazine.  oh his editor had her work cut out for her. Now at 40 he's written and published an article every month since he was 18 years old. He now owns and is the publisher of the technical magazine that published his first article.  His spelling to this day is horrid, but he's a well respected leader in his profession and industry.  Very few people know that writing was and is difficult or that his spelling and grammar still need a great deal of editing. 
My father sees words as pictures. Spelling is difficult, so he is always asking someone how to spell a word.  I've only seen him handwrite labels on plans, but he writes via typing all the time.  He runs three businesses, two non-profits, and speaks nationally.  He has others that work for him to fill in the gaps on things he's not as good at. He's commented that writing is a slow process for him, to translate thoughts to words on paper.  He writes not because it's easy, but he's found it's the best form for him to share information, thoughts, and ideas with others.  And that's important to his work, so he does it. 
My grandfather also ran a successful international company, despite the fact that he too struggled with language and writing.  I did not know that my father and grandfather struggled with language until I was seeking ideas and explaining our philosophy to my father,  asking him to respect our wishes to encourage our sons and not make a big deal about writing.  He completely understood, because of his own journey as a son, person, and parent with reflection on what worked and didn't work for the three of them, he's agreed that letting them be is much better than the punitive or forced methods that were tried on them. His perspective anyway. 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

<bonniecrocker2003@...>

Thank you for your reply Sandra.

 

I definitely accept responsibility for inadvertently pressuring him by allowing my anxiety to shine through. It's not that we ask him to write or anything like that.  I don't know why I said that.

 

Understandably, if I correct his spelling, he gets the message that there is something wrong with him but at the same time, it feels foreign to me not to help him by correcting his mistakes.  Should I just ignore any mistakes as I can pretty much figure out what he means?

 

I have no problem helping him at all and have done so as much as I can.  He can certainly live with me as long as he wants but I don't want to cripple him in that he can't navigate his way in life because of my failure.  Is it unreasonable to think he may have to write something to someone some day and I'm not going to be there to do it for him?  Should I not be concerned that he spells we as yee and my as mi?  I certainly don't want him to view himself as something that needs to be fixed but I don't think I am being unreasonable in hoping that he develops basic writing skills.

 

It sounds like based on your own experience that I need to give this a few more years and just relax.  Play games, have fun and create an environment where he will feel comfortable trying writing if he wants.

 

 

Thanks for the links.  It's late here in Germany and I will read them tomorrow.  He did make me a list for Christmas via computer.

 

Thanks again for the input,

 

Bonnie

<bonniecrocker2003@...>

Thanks Alex.  Late here and will listen to videos in am.  I'm an old RN so I know all about the doctor's handwriting.  I was quite happy when in 1992, they were required to write their orders in the computer.

Sandra Dodd

-=- It's not that we ask him to write or anything like that.  I don't know why I said that.-=-

It's very important for your own clarity for you only write down thing you think about first, and to only hit "send" about things you're clear about.

Whether you know why you said it or not, you chose the words, and wrote it down, and sent it to hundreds (maybe thousands) of people.  If it wasn't in your conscious thoughts, it was in your thoughts.  OR (worse), you were parroting other people's phrases.

-=-Understandably, if I correct his spelling, he gets the message that there is something wrong with him but at the same time, it feels foreign to me not to help him by correcting his mistakes.  Should I just ignore any mistakes as I can pretty much figure out what he means?-=-

-=-Understandably... but at the same time-=-
"Yeah, but" means "no."

-=-Should I just ignore any mistakes as I can pretty much figure out what he means?-=-

If he's writing to communicate with you, YES.  If you understood it, leave it as communication.
The only reason to correct it is if you want to discourage him from writing to you in the future.

-=-Understandably, if I correct his spelling, he gets the message that there is something wrong with him but ...-=-

BUT?  
You are right.  He has gotten the message that there is something wrong with him.  Turn that beacon off.  Stop broadcasting that.

Find the things that are right with him, and live and frolic *there.*

You wrote in two different posts that it's late and that you will follow up on the information tomorrow.
It would have been better if you  had NOT written.  If you had time to write you had time to read what we KNOW will help you.

-= -I have no problem helping him at all and have done so as much as I can.  He can certainly live with me as long as he wants but I don't want to cripple him in that he can't navigate his way in life because of my failure.  Is it unreasonable to think he may have to write something to someone some day and I'm not going to be there to do it for him?  Should I not be concerned that he spells we as yee and my as mi?  I certainly don't want him to view himself as something that needs to be fixed but I don't think I am being unreasonable in hoping that he develops basic writing skills.-=-

That is a lot of noise saying "I'm right, tell me I'm right."
If what you already know is sufficient, you don't need us.
If you already know what you want us to write, then write it down yourself, and mail it to yourself, and read it.

If you want to know what people here know, read a little, try a little, wait a while and watch.  Not in minutes, but in days, weeks.

Sandra

J MARKS

Hi, my son is 12 in 5 days and sounds like your son. We had concern about his handwriting, but we needed to remember that most people type these days and our kids don't run in to handwriting situations very often. we bought him a journal. We explained journals are a place to write feelings and thoughts, doodles. He enjoyed it for awhile. He visits it every now and then. He also found an online journal website which he likes also. I asked him to try and write in it regularly. Only to exercise that skill(handwriting), but we don't make him. I would not want to crush journaling for him.
Also thought of sight words written on index cards and then making silly sentences. Or magnetic poetry, there are a few different kits.
HTH, Jessica


Sent from my iPad

<bonniecrocker2003@...>

"If he's writing to communicate with you, YES.  If you understood it, leave it as communication. 

The only reason to correct it is if you want to discourage him from writing to you in the future."  

This is what I was seeking clarification on.  I want to be proactive when maybe it doesn’t require me to be.  I see clearer now that the environment I create is more important than some skill set.  I’ve been thinking in the future instead of the here and now. 

One thing that was helpful to me that I overlooked before when I was searching was Joyce's response to an email from a parent who said that her 14 year old hated writing.  She responded: 

"Does he need to write right now to be better at being the 14 yo he is?" 

This hit home and took my thinking in a different direction.  My intent has always been to help him but my intent isn’t important if he sees what I’m doing as not accepting of who he is now.  Also helpful was Alex’s video recommendation because it is part of a series called Big thinkers which has other helpful videos that are of interest to unschoolers. 

I’ve read several posts on your website in the past on late reading but didn’t find the same type of posts on writing.  Maybe it isn’t helpful to look at reading or writing in terms of late or early but I found it helpful that people shared their stories on your website when Hunter wasn’t reading at 8 or 9 or 10.  It put things in perspective.  If it is more along the lines of developmental, then it is just a matter of continuing doing what we are doing and relaxing.  

I have no problems with anyone disagreeing with me.  I'm really not looking for people to tell me I'm right or to make me feel good about what I am or am not doing.  I've been around long enough to know better than that.  I can see how I am part of the problem and have no problem being told that I am.  If it is unreasonable of me to have a belief that having problems communicating in writing might be detrimental, then I certainly don't mind someone telling me and that I need to be thinking in a different way.

 

I'll do more reading and work hard to stay in the present vs. worrying about what may or may not happen in the future, focusing my attention on our relationship. 

Deborah

My mother spends time in morocco with a community of Berbers. Her friends there don't read or write much. Their memory is fantastic and there is a rich oral tradition of story telling. 

My son who is 15 takes in a huge amount of information about the world through podcasts. He knows more about current events than I do and has clear opinions about many things. We have rich conversations. He doesn't write much by hand or chat but when he needs to, he can make himself understood well enough.  His memory is outstanding. He doesn't understand how I forget things unless I write them down. :-)

He has written two essays in his life. Both needed for black belt testing. He dictated, I typed. He proof read and asked for changes. 

His life is just fine without writing. And if or when he needs more skill, he will find a way to get there. 

There's a book called the alphabet vs the goddess.  I haven't read it fully as I bogged down. For me it points to how the written language limits other aspects of our development. 

So there are many ways to look at not writing as an advantage. 
____________
Deborah D.




On Dec 24, 2013, at 11:03 AM, <bonniecrocker2003@...> wrote:

  If it is unreasonable of me to have a belief that having problems communicating in writing might be detrimental, then I certainly don't mind someone telling me and that I need to be thinking in a different way.

Sandra Dodd

-=- If it is unreasonable of me to have a belief that ...-=-

You're still fishing for us to tell you you're right.

Finding principles to help you make decisions, and making your own generalizations from those principles is part of the learning unschooling parents need to do for it to work well.  

Sandra Dodd

-=-I’ve read several posts on your website in the past on late reading but didn’t find the same type of posts on writing. Maybe it isn’t helpful to look at reading or writing in terms of late or early but I found it helpful that people shared their stories on your website when Hunter wasn’t reading at 8 or 9 or 10. It put things in perspective-=-

The same principles and ideas that work with the reading should transfer to the writing.

This article says it's about TV:

http://sandradodd.com/t/economics

Pam Sorooshian wrote it. It's CALLED "Economics of Restricting TV Watching of Children." But the examples give are about food. And if someone comes and says she's limiting her child's video game play, and he seems to just want more, we sent that link. If someone were to come and say that her child wanted to play outside all the time and never, ever wanted to come inside, so she limited his outside time to two hours a day, someone would send her that link.

Metaphorically speaking, we're trying to show people how to fish, not giving them one fish or even running a fish market. I guess it looks like a fish market sometimes. :-) But at some point, ideally, each person stops needing other unschoolers to hold the back of her bike and she rides off confidently... to fish. :-)

Sandra

Karen

>>>>>What do I do to help him without coming across like I am shaming him?<<<<<

My son isn't that fond of writing by hand either, but I picked up a few things to do with him, and some of them he liked very much. One of them is a question a day, three year journal. Here's a link to it:

http://www.amazon.com/Day-Kids-Three-Year-Journal/dp/0307952967/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1387913746&sr=8-2&keywords=five+year+journal+for+kids

He also really liked dot-to-dots and mazes. Not writing per se, but they have an element of pen control to them. I picked up a really beautiful chalkboard from a used furniture store, and we have done all kinds of writing on there. I have a painted chalkboard on the kitchen door that I keep my dinner menu on (when I remember). Ethan sometimes likes to add requests on there as well.

Scribblenaughts, which you can get for the phone, iPad or Nintendo, is a game that has a big writing component to it. Great game in my opinion. It uses words to bring almost anything you can imagine onto the screen to solve puzzles. I loved it. So did Ethan. If a word is spelled incorrectly, it offers suggestions. No shaming there. Great for me. I'm not a steller speller.

Minecraft has books you can write in, and signs you can write on. Ethan and his friends have had a lot of fun with those.

My husband and Ethan enjoy playing video games together. They're computers are in separate rooms, so they use the chat bar in game. Never has Doug corrected Ethan's written attempts to communicate. Doug has gotten such a thrill out of seeing Ethan's abilities grow from his own enthusiasm for communicating. That's been really cool.

All that said, at age 11, Ethan still gets a couple of his letters backwards when hand writing on paper. Recently he needed to write something at a gathering we were at, and he ran over to me and whispered "Which way does the j dip again?" I showed him in the air and told him to the left. He also writes almost all in capital letters. He says it's easier.

Ethan and I were in a bookstore a while ago and I looked at a novel for young people that was entirely written using text language. I thought it was clever. It was called ttyl. Here's a link:

http://www.amazon.com/Ttyl-Lauren-Myracle/dp/0810987880/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1387914900&sr=8-2&keywords=ttyl

We didn't buy the book, but when we went home Ethan started communicating all in acronyms. I'll tell ya...that takes some skill and focus! :-)

Look around you. People are communicating today in a great variety of ways. Play with some of them with your son if he welcomes that. Keep it fun and light.

Karen.

Sandra Dodd

-=-Look around you. People are communicating today in a great variety of ways. Play with some of them with your son if he welcomes that. Keep it fun and light. -=-

I had a phone with a keyboard with little buttons.  I'm a touch typist.  That was better than no keyboard at all.

Now I have a touchscreen phone.  The keyboard, even if I turn the phone sideways to maximize it, is imaginary. :-)

The fastest way for me to do text is the method whose name I don't even know—dragging my finger over the letters in the word, and the device guesses what I mean.  That isn't easy for me, because my left hand knows the left side of the keyboard (as it knows how to "read" bass clef if there's a piano there) and my right hand doesn't always know where the "left hand" letters are on the keyboard.  

I *know* (officially and on paper) how to type.  I don't need to look, to type, if I have a keyboard I'm used to.  But that's not the only way to communicate in electronic writing anymore.  
I *know* how to print, write in cursive, and do three calligraphic hands, but because I haven't been doing it regularly, my handwriting is becoming more difficult to read.  And for young people who don't see cursive much, perhaps my everyday cursive is impossible to read. :-)

So everyone should realax about what "writing" is.  A large part of it is having skill in the logical arrangement of ideas, and in some artistry with language.  Being able to write what looks beautiful on paper only goes so far if the person has nothing interesting to say!

Sandra

<plaidpanties666@...>

>> it feels foreign to me not to help him by correcting his mistakes. <<


It's only help if it feels helpful to the recipient. If it doesn't feel helpful from your son's point of view, then you're not helping - he's not learning what you want or expect him to learn from your actions. 


For some perspective, maybe think of a time a man did something he thought was helpful or chivalrous and it felt like a put-down to you - most women can think of at least one example. Remember how that felt and how maybe you were torn between frustration and anger and the simultaneous understanding that the other person didn't get it. 


>>Should I just ignore any mistakes as I can pretty much figure out what he means?<<


If you can figure it out, he's succeeded in what he set out do: communicate something via print. If he can do that, he Does know a lot about letters and sounds, what writing does and what it's for, and you can reassure yourself with that knowledge for now.


When you actually can't figure out what he's trying to convey, ask - ask him the same way you'd ask someone whose writing you couldn't decipher - someone like an older adult you wouldn't want to offend.That's when you could ask if he wants to know how a particular word is spelled or offer a Very Small piece of information like: that's spelled with a "th" not an "f". But be ready to accept that he might not always want that kind of information. 

Mo went through a long stage of writing with her own spellings for words, when she wrote at all, which wasn't terribly often. She sometimes broke up words in odd places, and went through a (fairly common) period of separating words with a dot and otherwise not using punctuation. Sometimes, seemingly at random, she'd ask me how to spell a word. It always kind of surprised me because for the most part she didn't like that kind of feedback - she wanted to write, and spelling wasn't all that important. Over time, her spelling got better in tiny increments until she really started writing for her own purposes - writing game walkthroughs and reviews and fan fiction, where things like spelling and punctuation matter. But that was Years after she started reading - like six years, not one or two. 

<plaidpanties666@...>

>>Should I not be concerned that he spells we as yee and my as mi?<<


Actually, those are really typical examples of "invented spelling" as used by kids who know quite a bit about language already. They show that he understands the Principles of word formation very well, he just doesn't have the details yet. He knows that letters stand for sounds and he's using the names of the letters as a guide to the sounds. Think about that. Say "y" - it makes a "w" sound: "why". So it's a logical choice. Say "i". Do you see what I mean? He's making thoughtful choices! And for the most part they work - you can figure out what he's trying to say by "sounding out" what he has written.


Since he's reading he's not oblivious to the fact that words are spelled oddly - he can see that, but it's a huge amount of information to hold in his head all at once so he's relying on logic for now. It's going to take him some time to discover when his logic works and when it doesn't. If he seems interested, and  you know something about the subject, it could be nice to comment about the origins of some words - don't go on and on about it, but it's the sort of thing some kids find not only helpful but fascinating. 

Sandra Dodd

-=- If he seems interested, and  you know something about the subject, it could be nice to comment about the origins of some words - don't go on and on about it, but it's the sort of thing some kids find not only helpful but fascinating. -=-

When one of mine would ask me how to spell a word, I would sometimes just spell it, or sometimes I would spell it and add one bit of trivia.    The number two is "two" with a "w" like twin or twice.  And no more talking.  

<thewekkenfam@...>

+++When one of mine would ask me how to spell a word, I would sometimes just spell it, or sometimes I would spell it and add one bit of trivia.    The number two is "two" with a "w" like twin or twice.  And no more talking.+++


I do similar things with my boys ages 11 & 8.  Sometimes they want to know more so we do research together and sometimes not, their choice.  My 11 year old found the book 'Uncovering the Logic of English' to be of some help with spelling, and was interested to learn about the origins of some words http://www.amazon.com/Uncovering-Logic-English-Common-Sense-Approach/dp/1936706210.  My 11 (almost 12) year old also doesn't write much, doesn't have a need to at this point in his life.  He does do a lot of chatting on skype with friends and on minecraft while playing with friends.  He also participates in discussions online and comments on videos on youtube.  His spelling has gotten better over the past year I think due to all of the ways he communicates online.  When he handwrites he tends to run all his words together without using punctuation and also writes in all caps, something he doesn't do when typing online, so I'm assuming it's a time saver when handwriting.


We've had some fun with the book 'Games for Writing' (mostly geared for younger kids), and he likes doing some of the writing prompts on the Brave Writer blog, http://blog.bravewriter.com/ all strictly for fun mind you and his choice. 


Here is a wonderful blog post by an unschooler titled 'How To Raise A Writer' that I found very helpful when I started to get a little anxious myself about my sons lack of writing and spelling:


http://zombieprincess.blogspot.com/2013/07/how-to-raise-good-writer.html


Julie v.


Joyce Fetteroll

On Dec 27, 2013, at 7:10 PM, thewekkenfam@... wrote:

> he likes doing some of the writing prompts on the Brave Writer blog, http://blog.bravewriter.com/

If kids -- or their parents -- likes fantasy or science fiction, I have a blog of writing prompts they might like.

http://dragonwritingprompts.blogspot.com

(If you click on any of the image most have a secret link that's connected in some way to the prompt.)

Joyce