Mixing it or is it blending?
vicskibart
My 9 year old daughter expressed an interest in attending our local Home Ed 'shared learning/Coop' this week. In the Code of Conduct form that I signed it was stated that "This was not the time or place to practice Autonomy." To some degree I understand as there are many there who have quite structured approaches to their Home Ed lives and expect that in the sessions! It was a wonderful and calm environment where much learning was experienced through chat so she did enjoy it.
The games followed that and that was the point when my daughter tired of the 'rules' and took herself out of the group to 'draw' or so I thought! She wrote a note to her best pal who was still playing the game to try and 'lure' him out too. I understand that this behaviour was somewhat cheeky and very annoying for the game leader whose son was the one being 'lured'.
I wasn't aware of this at the time and so should have paid more attention and just left the room with her leaving my younger daughter in there under the watchful eye of other parents/friends. I now feel very confused and frustrated (especially for my daughter). She loves being with her pals but she's finding it hard to manage her reactions to the "boredom" and 'unjustness' (in her mind) of having to put your hand up to shout out an answer in a guessing type game. She's been accused in the past of being 'attention seeking' and having SEN by a 'friend'/teacher (of which I had checked out and was told she has none!) - My daughter came out of school age 5 and a half.
She does still want to continue the sessions but I'm not sure its the right place as the rules are very firm in place. Should I be continuing to help her understand other's rules etc (as she will have to chose to follow rules at some point in her life ie. being quiet in a Theatre. Remaining seated on a plane etc). My youngest daughter manages this style of 'learning' and game playing without objection and really enjoys the group learning too. She's never been to school.
I've had my hands well and truly 'slapped' for not 'dealing' with it quickly enough. And I agree I should have whipped her out of there the moment she lost interest.
Its tough one though because the parents there are also our friends.
Hmmm... I'm very confused.
The games followed that and that was the point when my daughter tired of the 'rules' and took herself out of the group to 'draw' or so I thought! She wrote a note to her best pal who was still playing the game to try and 'lure' him out too. I understand that this behaviour was somewhat cheeky and very annoying for the game leader whose son was the one being 'lured'.
I wasn't aware of this at the time and so should have paid more attention and just left the room with her leaving my younger daughter in there under the watchful eye of other parents/friends. I now feel very confused and frustrated (especially for my daughter). She loves being with her pals but she's finding it hard to manage her reactions to the "boredom" and 'unjustness' (in her mind) of having to put your hand up to shout out an answer in a guessing type game. She's been accused in the past of being 'attention seeking' and having SEN by a 'friend'/teacher (of which I had checked out and was told she has none!) - My daughter came out of school age 5 and a half.
She does still want to continue the sessions but I'm not sure its the right place as the rules are very firm in place. Should I be continuing to help her understand other's rules etc (as she will have to chose to follow rules at some point in her life ie. being quiet in a Theatre. Remaining seated on a plane etc). My youngest daughter manages this style of 'learning' and game playing without objection and really enjoys the group learning too. She's never been to school.
I've had my hands well and truly 'slapped' for not 'dealing' with it quickly enough. And I agree I should have whipped her out of there the moment she lost interest.
Its tough one though because the parents there are also our friends.
Hmmm... I'm very confused.
Joyce Fetteroll
On Jan 25, 2013, at 9:44 AM, vicskibart wrote:
Are you using too many words?
Or maybe you're trying to "get her to understand" when she really just wants you to agree that rules can be irritating.
But it's a fairly straightforward "if-then". If she doesn't want to follow their rules, then she needs to not be in the class.
Are you perhaps seeing that statement as the conventional parenting manipulation "If you don't do as I say, then you can't do this." The reason that causes problems is because the child knows Mom has made up the rules and she can change them. It's a power play. Someone else's rules aren't yours to change. You're giving her facts for her to choose to go or not. Attending someone else's "party" means being a polite guest which means following their rules. She doesn't get to change their rules.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Should I be continuing to help her understand other's rules etcI'm not sure where the confusion is. Their class, their rules.
Are you using too many words?
Or maybe you're trying to "get her to understand" when she really just wants you to agree that rules can be irritating.
But it's a fairly straightforward "if-then". If she doesn't want to follow their rules, then she needs to not be in the class.
Are you perhaps seeing that statement as the conventional parenting manipulation "If you don't do as I say, then you can't do this." The reason that causes problems is because the child knows Mom has made up the rules and she can change them. It's a power play. Someone else's rules aren't yours to change. You're giving her facts for her to choose to go or not. Attending someone else's "party" means being a polite guest which means following their rules. She doesn't get to change their rules.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-Mixing it or is it blending?-=-
Could you explain your subject line? That might be a clue, but I don't get it.
-=-In the Code of Conduct form that I signed it was stated that "This was not the time or place to practice Autonomy." To some degree I understand as there are many there who have quite structured approaches to their Home Ed lives and expect that in the sessions!-=-
Why do you only understand it "to some degree"? You signed it. If you didn't understand it, or agree to it, you should've declined at that point.
By putting some words in quotation marks, you seem to be saying that you don't think they were real rules, or that she didn't actually try to lure her friend away.
-=-The games followed that and that was the point when my daughter tired of the 'rules' and took herself out of the group to 'draw' or so I thought! She wrote a note to her best pal who was still playing the game to try and 'lure' him out too.-=-
She went so far as to put her disruption in writing. That's not "try to 'lure'"—that is LURE.
I think you're not being clear about what's going on.
-=- I understand that this behaviour was somewhat cheeky and very annoying for the game leader whose son was the one being 'lured'. -=-
"Somewhat cheeky" is making light of what it was. Your team cheated. Your team broke an agreement. Your team was disruptive.
Be a better team leader.
-=-She's been accused in the past of being 'attention seeking' and having SEN by a 'friend'/teacher (of which I had checked out and was told she has none!) - My daughter came out of school age 5 and a half.-=-
I had to look up "SEN." Please don't use secret codes here or abbreviations.
It's a UK terms for "Special Educational Needs."
That's a school term. If you're not going to be participating in school, let all such labels go.
But on the other hand you have created a special situation for her in which she is NOT in school. That's pretty special! So you might want to stick with that, and not put her in school-like learning co-op situations where the other parents don't object to schoolish rules and requirements of raising one's hand to play.
-=-Should I be continuing to help her understand other's rules etc (as she will have to chose to follow rules at some point in her life ie. being quiet in a Theatre. Remaining seated on a plane etc).-=-
Of course you should always have been helping her understand everything around her that might be new or confusing to her. It's the main part of being a parent. I'm sure she chooses to follow rules now, like being quiet in a theatre or cinema or taking turns or standing in line to buy tickets or to make a purchase at a store.
-=-as she will have to chose to follow rules-=-
That's rhythmical, and kind of poetic, but it's way too many words. When you can state something simply and clearly, it will help your thinking for you to do it, and it will help those who are reading when you take the time to do that, too.
Beware of "have to."
http://sandradodd.com/haveto
"At some point in her life" is looking toward the future instead of at now.
When you go to a restaurant, she probably doesn't dash around grabbing food off the plates of strangers. Being a child's partner includes helping them navigate the social expectations of others, to help them learn to be safe and pleasant and happy.
-=-I've had my hands well and truly 'slapped' for not 'dealing' with it quickly enough. And I agree I should have whipped her out of there the moment she lost interest.-=-
Quotation marks on "slapped" might make sense because they didn't literally slap you, but the DID expect you to actually deal with it (not to 'deal' with it sort of or as you say or allegedly deal with it).
In that one paragraph, though, you have "slapped" and "whipped" and those words are too extreme, too violent, too dramatic.
If you want to remain friends with those other parents, do what they told you in advance that they wanted done. If you can't do it, find something else fun to do on that day, at that time.
Sandra
Its tough one though because the parents there are also our friends. -=-
Could you explain your subject line? That might be a clue, but I don't get it.
-=-In the Code of Conduct form that I signed it was stated that "This was not the time or place to practice Autonomy." To some degree I understand as there are many there who have quite structured approaches to their Home Ed lives and expect that in the sessions!-=-
Why do you only understand it "to some degree"? You signed it. If you didn't understand it, or agree to it, you should've declined at that point.
By putting some words in quotation marks, you seem to be saying that you don't think they were real rules, or that she didn't actually try to lure her friend away.
-=-The games followed that and that was the point when my daughter tired of the 'rules' and took herself out of the group to 'draw' or so I thought! She wrote a note to her best pal who was still playing the game to try and 'lure' him out too.-=-
She went so far as to put her disruption in writing. That's not "try to 'lure'"—that is LURE.
I think you're not being clear about what's going on.
-=- I understand that this behaviour was somewhat cheeky and very annoying for the game leader whose son was the one being 'lured'. -=-
"Somewhat cheeky" is making light of what it was. Your team cheated. Your team broke an agreement. Your team was disruptive.
Be a better team leader.
-=-She's been accused in the past of being 'attention seeking' and having SEN by a 'friend'/teacher (of which I had checked out and was told she has none!) - My daughter came out of school age 5 and a half.-=-
I had to look up "SEN." Please don't use secret codes here or abbreviations.
It's a UK terms for "Special Educational Needs."
That's a school term. If you're not going to be participating in school, let all such labels go.
But on the other hand you have created a special situation for her in which she is NOT in school. That's pretty special! So you might want to stick with that, and not put her in school-like learning co-op situations where the other parents don't object to schoolish rules and requirements of raising one's hand to play.
-=-Should I be continuing to help her understand other's rules etc (as she will have to chose to follow rules at some point in her life ie. being quiet in a Theatre. Remaining seated on a plane etc).-=-
Of course you should always have been helping her understand everything around her that might be new or confusing to her. It's the main part of being a parent. I'm sure she chooses to follow rules now, like being quiet in a theatre or cinema or taking turns or standing in line to buy tickets or to make a purchase at a store.
-=-as she will have to chose to follow rules-=-
That's rhythmical, and kind of poetic, but it's way too many words. When you can state something simply and clearly, it will help your thinking for you to do it, and it will help those who are reading when you take the time to do that, too.
Beware of "have to."
http://sandradodd.com/haveto
"At some point in her life" is looking toward the future instead of at now.
When you go to a restaurant, she probably doesn't dash around grabbing food off the plates of strangers. Being a child's partner includes helping them navigate the social expectations of others, to help them learn to be safe and pleasant and happy.
-=-I've had my hands well and truly 'slapped' for not 'dealing' with it quickly enough. And I agree I should have whipped her out of there the moment she lost interest.-=-
Quotation marks on "slapped" might make sense because they didn't literally slap you, but the DID expect you to actually deal with it (not to 'deal' with it sort of or as you say or allegedly deal with it).
In that one paragraph, though, you have "slapped" and "whipped" and those words are too extreme, too violent, too dramatic.
If you want to remain friends with those other parents, do what they told you in advance that they wanted done. If you can't do it, find something else fun to do on that day, at that time.
Sandra
Its tough one though because the parents there are also our friends. -=-
Victoria Skingsley
Thank you for your replies. I will take time to digest these.
The subject line? My reason for that was to suggest that the group is full
of different styles of home edding... we are all in one room together thus
the image in my mind of being 'mixed up' together trying to blend and not
kurdle!? :-)
I apologise for the ' and ". I also speak like that!
I wanted to sign the agreement because its lovely for my daughters to have
this experience despite my thoughts on one or two of the rules. My
thoughts not my daughter's. Its upto me to help them understand them. We
are very respectful of others' rules. I just wonder how else she is to
experience these moments without being in them. Her sister enjoys them and
its not possible for me to have alternative care for her while the other
attends. She does want to continue I just hope that I am helping her in
the best way.
Thank you again for your replies. Off to digest.
The subject line? My reason for that was to suggest that the group is full
of different styles of home edding... we are all in one room together thus
the image in my mind of being 'mixed up' together trying to blend and not
kurdle!? :-)
I apologise for the ' and ". I also speak like that!
I wanted to sign the agreement because its lovely for my daughters to have
this experience despite my thoughts on one or two of the rules. My
thoughts not my daughter's. Its upto me to help them understand them. We
are very respectful of others' rules. I just wonder how else she is to
experience these moments without being in them. Her sister enjoys them and
its not possible for me to have alternative care for her while the other
attends. She does want to continue I just hope that I am helping her in
the best way.
Thank you again for your replies. Off to digest.
On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 3:48 PM, Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
> -=-Mixing it or is it blending?-=-
>
> Could you explain your subject line? That might be a clue, but I don't
> get it.
>
> -=-In the Code of Conduct form that I signed it was stated that "This was
> not the time or place to practice Autonomy." To some degree I understand as
> there are many there who have quite structured approaches to their Home Ed
> lives and expect that in the sessions!-=-
>
> Why do you only understand it "to some degree"? You signed it. If you
> didn't understand it, or agree to it, you should've declined at that point.
>
> By putting some words in quotation marks, you seem to be saying that you
> don't think they were real rules, or that she didn't actually try to lure
> her friend away.
>
> -=-The games followed that and that was the point when my daughter tired
> of the 'rules' and took herself out of the group to 'draw' or so I thought!
> She wrote a note to her best pal who was still playing the game to try and
> 'lure' him out too.-=-
>
> She went so far as to put her disruption in writing. That's not "try to
> 'lure'"�that is LURE.
>
> I think you're not being clear about what's going on.
>
> -=- I understand that this behaviour was somewhat cheeky and very annoying
> for the game leader whose son was the one being 'lured'. -=-
>
> "Somewhat cheeky" is making light of what it was. Your team cheated.
> Your team broke an agreement. Your team was disruptive.
> Be a better team leader.
>
> -=-She's been accused in the past of being 'attention seeking' and having
> SEN by a 'friend'/teacher (of which I had checked out and was told she has
> none!) - My daughter came out of school age 5 and a half.-=-
>
> I had to look up "SEN." Please don't use secret codes here or
> abbreviations.
> It's a UK terms for "Special Educational Needs."
> That's a school term. If you're not going to be participating in school,
> let all such labels go.
>
> But on the other hand you have created a special situation for her in
> which she is NOT in school. That's pretty special! So you might want to
> stick with that, and not put her in school-like learning co-op situations
> where the other parents don't object to schoolish rules and requirements of
> raising one's hand to play.
>
> -=-Should I be continuing to help her understand other's rules etc (as she
> will have to chose to follow rules at some point in her life ie. being
> quiet in a Theatre. Remaining seated on a plane etc).-=-
>
> Of course you should always have been helping her understand everything
> around her that might be new or confusing to her. It's the main part of
> being a parent. I'm sure she chooses to follow rules now, like being quiet
> in a theatre or cinema or taking turns or standing in line to buy tickets
> or to make a purchase at a store.
>
> -=-as she will have to chose to follow rules-=-
>
> That's rhythmical, and kind of poetic, but it's way too many words.
> When you can state something simply and clearly, it will help your
> thinking for you to do it, and it will help those who are reading when you
> take the time to do that, too.
>
> Beware of "have to."
> http://sandradodd.com/haveto
>
> "At some point in her life" is looking toward the future instead of at now.
> When you go to a restaurant, she probably doesn't dash around grabbing
> food off the plates of strangers. Being a child's partner includes helping
> them navigate the social expectations of others, to help them learn to be
> safe and pleasant and happy.
>
> -=-I've had my hands well and truly 'slapped' for not 'dealing' with it
> quickly enough. And I agree I should have whipped her out of there the
> moment she lost interest.-=-
>
> Quotation marks on "slapped" might make sense because they didn't
> literally slap you, but the DID expect you to actually deal with it (not to
> 'deal' with it sort of or as you say or allegedly deal with it).
>
> In that one paragraph, though, you have "slapped" and "whipped" and those
> words are too extreme, too violent, too dramatic.
>
> If you want to remain friends with those other parents, do what they told
> you in advance that they wanted done. If you can't do it, find something
> else fun to do on that day, at that time.
>
> Sandra
>
> Its tough one though because the parents there are also our friends. -=-
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
--
VicXX
Victoria Skingsley-Bartholomew
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-The subject line? My reason for that was to suggest that the group is full
of different styles of home edding... we are all in one room together thus
the image in my mind of being 'mixed up' together trying to blend and not
kurdle!? :-)
-=-
AHA
But you went to their meeting, so it's their territory, and you agreed to that.
So you shouldn't visualize it as a compromise situation. You can be as they have said they want people to be, or you will be disruptive, unwelcome, and losing friends.
I think it's good to remember whose house it is, literally and figuratively. That matters.
Sandra
of different styles of home edding... we are all in one room together thus
the image in my mind of being 'mixed up' together trying to blend and not
kurdle!? :-)
-=-
AHA
But you went to their meeting, so it's their territory, and you agreed to that.
So you shouldn't visualize it as a compromise situation. You can be as they have said they want people to be, or you will be disruptive, unwelcome, and losing friends.
I think it's good to remember whose house it is, literally and figuratively. That matters.
Sandra