Help with Defooding
Bryanna
Hi! I have been following the group for a while but have not posted yet - so here I go :)!
We have a 5 year old, 3 year old twins, and an 8 month old and I would really like to defood (I think that is the term :)). All of my kids love sweets and we let them have them all of the time but we have always put a restriction on how much they can have. My questions are:
1 - is 3 years old the wrong age to do this? (At 6:30 this morning they all wanted a popsicle . . . Then yesterday I bought a pound of M&M's and they are already gone)
2 - When the candy, cookies, popsicles, etc - that I have bought are gone do I rush out to buy more - or just tell them we will get more next time we go to the store (which may not be for another week?)
We just started the process on Wednesday (figured we would start after all the sugar and sweets overload from Christmas).
3 - My husband is a little skeptical about it - but I really feel we can get there!! What is the "average" time it takes for them to get over the stuff your face with sweets stage? A week, a month, longer? I know it is different for everyone but just looking for some insight.
4 - Once they are defooded - do I just buy things when they ask, or do I always make sure we have the sweets, cookies, fruits, veggies, etc on hand?
Thanks for all of your help!! I love the group and have learned so much from it! I feel like I am getting where I need to be but just need to keep reading and trying!!
Thanks!
Bryanna
We have a 5 year old, 3 year old twins, and an 8 month old and I would really like to defood (I think that is the term :)). All of my kids love sweets and we let them have them all of the time but we have always put a restriction on how much they can have. My questions are:
1 - is 3 years old the wrong age to do this? (At 6:30 this morning they all wanted a popsicle . . . Then yesterday I bought a pound of M&M's and they are already gone)
2 - When the candy, cookies, popsicles, etc - that I have bought are gone do I rush out to buy more - or just tell them we will get more next time we go to the store (which may not be for another week?)
We just started the process on Wednesday (figured we would start after all the sugar and sweets overload from Christmas).
3 - My husband is a little skeptical about it - but I really feel we can get there!! What is the "average" time it takes for them to get over the stuff your face with sweets stage? A week, a month, longer? I know it is different for everyone but just looking for some insight.
4 - Once they are defooded - do I just buy things when they ask, or do I always make sure we have the sweets, cookies, fruits, veggies, etc on hand?
Thanks for all of your help!! I love the group and have learned so much from it! I feel like I am getting where I need to be but just need to keep reading and trying!!
Thanks!
Bryanna
Sandra Dodd
-=-defooded-=-
PLEASE don't make words up. It's important. Honest it is.
You never fooded them. You can't "defood" them.
The clearer you can be about what you're doing and why, the better your lives will be.
-=-I would really like to defood (I think that is the term :))-=-
Wherever you (or anyone here) might have heard that term, drop it, please.
-=-When the candy, cookies, popsicles, etc - that I have bought are gone do I rush out to buy more - or just tell them we will get more next time we go to the store (which may not be for another week?)-=-
If you hadn't had limits, they wouldn't be so excited about the availability of previously-limited food. You're not dealing with something ntural or normal. You're dealing with the result of saying no.
This article will probably help you understand the generality.
http://sandradodd.com/t/economiccs
-=-We just started the process on Wednesday (figured we would start after all the sugar and sweets overload from Christmas). -=-
Rather than feeling that you have "started a process," I think it would be better for you to move toward understanding how you can make conscious decisions for real reasons. Food, playing, sleeping, climbing, singing... they are not separate areas of life when you understand the larger principles and move toward being your child's partner.
http://sandradodd.com/gradualchange
Say yes more often. Not one big "yes whatever you want." A thousand sweet "I guess so! " "Sure," and "Yes, it's fine." Lots of them.
-=-What is the "average" time it takes for them to get over the stuff your face with sweets stage? -=-
My kids never had a stage like that. There is no natural "stuff your face with sweets stage."
There is (and always will be, and cannot help but be) a reaction to deprivation, and to having been limited.
-=-4 - Once they are defooded - do I just buy things when they ask, or do I always make sure we have the sweets, cookies, fruits, veggies, etc on hand?-=-
"Just" is a problem, in what you've written above.
You don't "just" buy things. You can't "always" make sure anything is there.
Shop thoughtfully. Learn gradually.
We can't tell you what to buy. We can help you understand how to see how natural learning will work well when you have a good relationship with your children.
There is no bypass, no shortcut, to this:
Read a little, try a little, wait a while, watch.
It can't happen all at once.
Go gradually and mindfully.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
PLEASE don't make words up. It's important. Honest it is.
You never fooded them. You can't "defood" them.
The clearer you can be about what you're doing and why, the better your lives will be.
-=-I would really like to defood (I think that is the term :))-=-
Wherever you (or anyone here) might have heard that term, drop it, please.
-=-When the candy, cookies, popsicles, etc - that I have bought are gone do I rush out to buy more - or just tell them we will get more next time we go to the store (which may not be for another week?)-=-
If you hadn't had limits, they wouldn't be so excited about the availability of previously-limited food. You're not dealing with something ntural or normal. You're dealing with the result of saying no.
This article will probably help you understand the generality.
http://sandradodd.com/t/economiccs
-=-We just started the process on Wednesday (figured we would start after all the sugar and sweets overload from Christmas). -=-
Rather than feeling that you have "started a process," I think it would be better for you to move toward understanding how you can make conscious decisions for real reasons. Food, playing, sleeping, climbing, singing... they are not separate areas of life when you understand the larger principles and move toward being your child's partner.
http://sandradodd.com/gradualchange
Say yes more often. Not one big "yes whatever you want." A thousand sweet "I guess so! " "Sure," and "Yes, it's fine." Lots of them.
-=-What is the "average" time it takes for them to get over the stuff your face with sweets stage? -=-
My kids never had a stage like that. There is no natural "stuff your face with sweets stage."
There is (and always will be, and cannot help but be) a reaction to deprivation, and to having been limited.
-=-4 - Once they are defooded - do I just buy things when they ask, or do I always make sure we have the sweets, cookies, fruits, veggies, etc on hand?-=-
"Just" is a problem, in what you've written above.
You don't "just" buy things. You can't "always" make sure anything is there.
Shop thoughtfully. Learn gradually.
We can't tell you what to buy. We can help you understand how to see how natural learning will work well when you have a good relationship with your children.
There is no bypass, no shortcut, to this:
Read a little, try a little, wait a while, watch.
It can't happen all at once.
Go gradually and mindfully.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=
This article will probably help you understand the generality.
http://sandradodd.com/t/economics
The link was bad before.
Sorry.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
This article will probably help you understand the generality.
http://sandradodd.com/t/economics
The link was bad before.
Sorry.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
I forgot another thing. Sorry to be disjoint. I'm listening to Jill and Luke talk about videogames at the ALL Unschooling Symposium (and sitting in the back of the room answering questions for people.
-=-All of my kids love sweets and we let them have them all of the time but we have always put a restriction on how much they can have. -=-
If something is measured (like "you can play video games for 30 minutes, and not 31") it creates a huge value on the time after half an hour.
If a child can have ten M&Ms, the idea that he could have 20 make him feel rich and wild.
So measurements in that way can cause problems. They're not going to eat as many as they want. If they're allowed ten, why would they eat three!? It's crazy. And IF they can have more than the magical/arbitrary ten, BONUS!!!!!
Neither way are they thinking "Do I want one single M&M?" And then "Do I want a second M&M?"
They're not listening to their bodies. They're thinking of numbers.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
-=-All of my kids love sweets and we let them have them all of the time but we have always put a restriction on how much they can have. -=-
If something is measured (like "you can play video games for 30 minutes, and not 31") it creates a huge value on the time after half an hour.
If a child can have ten M&Ms, the idea that he could have 20 make him feel rich and wild.
So measurements in that way can cause problems. They're not going to eat as many as they want. If they're allowed ten, why would they eat three!? It's crazy. And IF they can have more than the magical/arbitrary ten, BONUS!!!!!
Neither way are they thinking "Do I want one single M&M?" And then "Do I want a second M&M?"
They're not listening to their bodies. They're thinking of numbers.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Robert and Colleen
****Neither way are they thinking "Do I want one single M&M?" And then "Do I
want a second M&M?"
They're not listening to their bodies. They're thinking of numbers.****
Many evenings somewhere between dinner and bed, my 9 year old says "now I'm
going to have SIX cookies!!" - by which he means he is going to take 6
Trader Joe's vanilla sandwich cookies, place them on a spread-out napkin,
one cookie in each corner, and two in the middle - and then eat sometimes
two, sometimes three, and rarely more than four.
Once he's eaten what he wants, he happily announces something like "well I
guess I didn't want six after all!" - and then he takes the ones he didn't
eat, places them back in the bag of cookies we keep specifically for him in
the closet, and hops along to whatever he wants to play next.
If my husband and I tried to limit the number of cookies he could have, or
tell him he has to eat whatever he takes, or control his cookie-intake in
any other sort of way, we'd ruin his fun and make the cookie-eating about
the amount instead of the enjoyment. Watching him listen to what his body
wants and watching him enjoy cookies with not a hint of guilt or shame or
Should or Shouldn't - it's lovely :-)
Colleen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
want a second M&M?"
They're not listening to their bodies. They're thinking of numbers.****
Many evenings somewhere between dinner and bed, my 9 year old says "now I'm
going to have SIX cookies!!" - by which he means he is going to take 6
Trader Joe's vanilla sandwich cookies, place them on a spread-out napkin,
one cookie in each corner, and two in the middle - and then eat sometimes
two, sometimes three, and rarely more than four.
Once he's eaten what he wants, he happily announces something like "well I
guess I didn't want six after all!" - and then he takes the ones he didn't
eat, places them back in the bag of cookies we keep specifically for him in
the closet, and hops along to whatever he wants to play next.
If my husband and I tried to limit the number of cookies he could have, or
tell him he has to eat whatever he takes, or control his cookie-intake in
any other sort of way, we'd ruin his fun and make the cookie-eating about
the amount instead of the enjoyment. Watching him listen to what his body
wants and watching him enjoy cookies with not a hint of guilt or shame or
Should or Shouldn't - it's lovely :-)
Colleen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Schuyler
When they are little they need different foods then what they will need when they grow. The foods that appeal to a young child will be different to the foods that appeal to an older child or to an adult. I bet there are things you can remember liking when you were a child that just don't appeal now. They are too sweet or too fatty or too something. And the reverse is probably true as well, that is there are foods that you like now that you didn't like as a child. Foods that seemed to bitter, probably, when you were a child now are wonderful and you relish them. I bet there are foods that appeal to you now at varying times of the month. I bet as you've moved from not pregnant to pregnant to lactating your diet has changed in response to that.
Children are growing rapidly. They are developing brain matter, which is really energetically expensive stuff to grow. They are building bone and muscle and they need high energy and high fat foods to do that well. Which is all to say that looking for a day in the not to distant future when they stop enjoying foods that fill that energetic requirement, the day when they are over the stuff your face with sweets period, may be a false understanding of why those foods are appealing.
That isn't to say that parental limits on foods don't create a false economy. By limiting your child to 10 M&Ms you are absolutely ensuring that M&Ms have greater value than a food you let them eat indiscriminately. However the reverse won't necessarily work, that is limiting your child to a small number of something they don't like won't make that something suddenly appealing. They like M&Ms because M&Ms fill a nutritional and energetic need. Whereas deriving nutrients from something like spinach leaves is fairly biologically taxing. That's why sloths move so slow. That's why koalas aren't running around like toddlers.
Sandra outlined much better approaches to changing your relationship with food. Say yes more. Offer lots of yummy things that are easy for them to access and that are appealing to their palates. Make monkey platters with lots of good dips and good foods and when they ask for M&Ms say yes to those as well. The more proactive you are about feeding them, the more you offer food forward, the less they will be crashing and needing fast energy sources by the time they come to ask for food. And the less they will lean on those foods that you have relegated to the treat drawer.
Schuyler
________________________________
From: Bryanna <bryannajj@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, 29 December 2012, 4:14
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Help with Defooding
Hi! I have been following the group for a while but have not posted yet - so here I go :)!
We have a 5 year old, 3 year old twins, and an 8 month old and I would really like to defood (I think that is the term :)). All of my kids love sweets and we let them have them all of the time but we have always put a restriction on how much they can have. My questions are:
1 - is 3 years old the wrong age to do this? (At 6:30 this morning they all wanted a popsicle . . . Then yesterday I bought a pound of M&M's and they are already gone)
2 - When the candy, cookies, popsicles, etc - that I have bought are gone do I rush out to buy more - or just tell them we will get more next time we go to the store (which may not be for another week?)
We just started the process on Wednesday (figured we would start after all the sugar and sweets overload from Christmas).
3 - My husband is a little skeptical about it - but I really feel we can get there!! What is the "average" time it takes for them to get over the stuff your face with sweets stage? A week, a month, longer? I know it is different for everyone but just looking for some insight.
4 - Once they are defooded - do I just buy things when they ask, or do I always make sure we have the sweets, cookies, fruits, veggies, etc on hand?
Thanks for all of your help!! I love the group and have learned so much from it! I feel like I am getting where I need to be but just need to keep reading and trying!!
Thanks!
Bryanna
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Children are growing rapidly. They are developing brain matter, which is really energetically expensive stuff to grow. They are building bone and muscle and they need high energy and high fat foods to do that well. Which is all to say that looking for a day in the not to distant future when they stop enjoying foods that fill that energetic requirement, the day when they are over the stuff your face with sweets period, may be a false understanding of why those foods are appealing.
That isn't to say that parental limits on foods don't create a false economy. By limiting your child to 10 M&Ms you are absolutely ensuring that M&Ms have greater value than a food you let them eat indiscriminately. However the reverse won't necessarily work, that is limiting your child to a small number of something they don't like won't make that something suddenly appealing. They like M&Ms because M&Ms fill a nutritional and energetic need. Whereas deriving nutrients from something like spinach leaves is fairly biologically taxing. That's why sloths move so slow. That's why koalas aren't running around like toddlers.
Sandra outlined much better approaches to changing your relationship with food. Say yes more. Offer lots of yummy things that are easy for them to access and that are appealing to their palates. Make monkey platters with lots of good dips and good foods and when they ask for M&Ms say yes to those as well. The more proactive you are about feeding them, the more you offer food forward, the less they will be crashing and needing fast energy sources by the time they come to ask for food. And the less they will lean on those foods that you have relegated to the treat drawer.
Schuyler
________________________________
From: Bryanna <bryannajj@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, 29 December 2012, 4:14
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Help with Defooding
Hi! I have been following the group for a while but have not posted yet - so here I go :)!
We have a 5 year old, 3 year old twins, and an 8 month old and I would really like to defood (I think that is the term :)). All of my kids love sweets and we let them have them all of the time but we have always put a restriction on how much they can have. My questions are:
1 - is 3 years old the wrong age to do this? (At 6:30 this morning they all wanted a popsicle . . . Then yesterday I bought a pound of M&M's and they are already gone)
2 - When the candy, cookies, popsicles, etc - that I have bought are gone do I rush out to buy more - or just tell them we will get more next time we go to the store (which may not be for another week?)
We just started the process on Wednesday (figured we would start after all the sugar and sweets overload from Christmas).
3 - My husband is a little skeptical about it - but I really feel we can get there!! What is the "average" time it takes for them to get over the stuff your face with sweets stage? A week, a month, longer? I know it is different for everyone but just looking for some insight.
4 - Once they are defooded - do I just buy things when they ask, or do I always make sure we have the sweets, cookies, fruits, veggies, etc on hand?
Thanks for all of your help!! I love the group and have learned so much from it! I feel like I am getting where I need to be but just need to keep reading and trying!!
Thanks!
Bryanna
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Meredith
"Bryanna" <bryannajj@...> wrote:
It's not all one thing or another. It's more a matter of taking your kids' wants and interests seriously.
If going to the store for more groceries isn't a good option why not make cookies? Pour some juice into ice-cube trays and make your own popsicles. Make your own candy - pralines are easy, if you're shy about scary things in double boilers, and you can make all sorts of variations of frosting and dolop out little bits to solidify.
Then when you're shopping (or before, if you make a grocery list) think about the kinds of things your kids like to eat and plan your shopping accordingly. Maybe that will mean buying more cookies - or more ingredients to make them. Maybe that will mean looking at the popsicle display more thoughtfully, picking up some frozen fruit for the kids to try either by themselves (frozen blueberries are good for that) or to make into smoothies or popsicles of your own. Maybe you'll pick up some fun shapes of ice-cube trays or trays especially made for popsicles. Maybe it will mean getting a set of cake-decorating tips for those home-made frosting candies.
It's so different for everyone any kind of number would be meaningless. Read that link Sandra posted about the economics of limits, that's important.
If you run out of things someone wants, it Feels like that thing is limited, a luxury item. It's natural to feast on luxury foods. If kids feel like they're competing for something, it will feel like a kind of limit - so with a food, they might "compete" to eat the most of something or to have the last bite. If you Treat food like a luxury (hand it out grudgingly or with conditions for instance) it's more likely to seem limited even if it isn't.
And what you mean by "stuff your face" can play a part in when you say yes or no, when you get more or have more in stock, when you impose conditions. If you expect kids to eat a particular way and are judging them against that standard it can keep you from seeing the way kids make choices and learn about food. It's normal for kids to go from one favorite food to another, for instance - and if you're expecting a school-book "balanced diet" that may very well look like a child "stuffing his face"... this week on cookies, next week on muffins, the week after on popsicles, the next on chicken nuggets, even if he's eating other things as well.
Be thoughtful and take your kids' interests and wants seriously. Offer foods you're confident they'll eat and foods you think they might like to try. Invite them to help prepare food. If they seem interested, invite them to help you shop or make grocery lists. Don't make food a big deal in a negative way but something to share and enjoy together. Depending on your kids, it might be fun to shop in some new places - ethnic markets or farmers' markets, or even just a different store than you usual, to mix things up and add some variety to your life, something new to explore together.
---Meredith
>> 2 - When the candy, cookies, popsicles, etc - that I have bought are gone do I rush out to buy more - or just tell them we will get more next time we go to the store (which may not be for another week?)***************
It's not all one thing or another. It's more a matter of taking your kids' wants and interests seriously.
If going to the store for more groceries isn't a good option why not make cookies? Pour some juice into ice-cube trays and make your own popsicles. Make your own candy - pralines are easy, if you're shy about scary things in double boilers, and you can make all sorts of variations of frosting and dolop out little bits to solidify.
Then when you're shopping (or before, if you make a grocery list) think about the kinds of things your kids like to eat and plan your shopping accordingly. Maybe that will mean buying more cookies - or more ingredients to make them. Maybe that will mean looking at the popsicle display more thoughtfully, picking up some frozen fruit for the kids to try either by themselves (frozen blueberries are good for that) or to make into smoothies or popsicles of your own. Maybe you'll pick up some fun shapes of ice-cube trays or trays especially made for popsicles. Maybe it will mean getting a set of cake-decorating tips for those home-made frosting candies.
>> What is the "average" time it takes for them to get over the stuff your face with sweets stage? A week, a month, longer? I know it is different for everyone but just looking for some insight.************
It's so different for everyone any kind of number would be meaningless. Read that link Sandra posted about the economics of limits, that's important.
If you run out of things someone wants, it Feels like that thing is limited, a luxury item. It's natural to feast on luxury foods. If kids feel like they're competing for something, it will feel like a kind of limit - so with a food, they might "compete" to eat the most of something or to have the last bite. If you Treat food like a luxury (hand it out grudgingly or with conditions for instance) it's more likely to seem limited even if it isn't.
And what you mean by "stuff your face" can play a part in when you say yes or no, when you get more or have more in stock, when you impose conditions. If you expect kids to eat a particular way and are judging them against that standard it can keep you from seeing the way kids make choices and learn about food. It's normal for kids to go from one favorite food to another, for instance - and if you're expecting a school-book "balanced diet" that may very well look like a child "stuffing his face"... this week on cookies, next week on muffins, the week after on popsicles, the next on chicken nuggets, even if he's eating other things as well.
>>do I just buy things when they ask, or do I always make sure we have the sweets, cookies, fruits, veggies, etc on hand?***************
Be thoughtful and take your kids' interests and wants seriously. Offer foods you're confident they'll eat and foods you think they might like to try. Invite them to help prepare food. If they seem interested, invite them to help you shop or make grocery lists. Don't make food a big deal in a negative way but something to share and enjoy together. Depending on your kids, it might be fun to shop in some new places - ethnic markets or farmers' markets, or even just a different store than you usual, to mix things up and add some variety to your life, something new to explore together.
---Meredith
kristi_beguin
>>>is 3 years old the wrong age to do this? <<<The sooner you can learn to not have restrictions and limits on certain foods the better for your children. It helps, though, to read the links that Sandra shared, so that you have a clear understanding of what it looks like to not have limits. I don't think that when things are gone, Mom "rushing out to buy more" is going to be helpful in the long run.
Instead, think of ways you want to respond to requests throughout the day, and how you will help them to get what they want. If the cookies are always on a high shelf and they need to ask in order to get some, consider putting the cookies on a lower shelf so they can help themselves. During the first month of so, you might find that the cookies run out quickly. But over time, you'll probably find the cookies have not run out. In fact, they may be going stale. This Halloween was particularly bountiful for my girls, and we have oodles of Halloween candy left about that I should freeze so that it doesn't spoil. The same for the Christmas cookies. If a child knows she can help herself to whatever, whenever, it is unlikely to become a coveted item.
>>>4 - Once they are defooded - do I just buy things when they ask, or do I always make sure we have the sweets, cookies, fruits, veggies, etc on hand?<<<Who came up with this new "defooded" word? It's awful! It reminds me of stripping the food from the larder, or something. It sounds very demeaning and negative like a deprivation. Regarding buying things when they ask or keeping things on hand, just think about what is most convenient for you. If a particular food item is gone, can you make a home-made option? Can you bake some special treats? Is it easier to buy pre made stuff and keep it on hand, or is it easy to run to the store to pick up more. It really just depends on your situation.
Bryanna
Thank you so much for the insight!! Sorry about the term defooding - I read it somewhere and went with it. I won't use it again :).
From the birth of our first child we have tried to say YES as much as possible. I think having twins and the added stress that brings to a family (there are a lot of great things about it but it is a whole different situation!) then being pregnant with our 4th and having him - has just made my tolerance lower and I am quicker to say No versus parenting the way both my husband and I would like to. Reading everything everyone wrote has helped me see we just need to work day in and day out on getting back to where we want to be! I want a quick answer and I want a step by step process - but I know that isn't possible and we just have to change our mindset and go from there.
Thanks for all the great links - I read through everything and think I have a better handle on where to go from here!
Why does it have to be so hard to let go and just let our kids make their own decisions and be who and how they want to be!! It seems like it should be so easy . . . I know we can do it - we just need to be conscious of our actions!
Thanks!!!!
Bryanna
From the birth of our first child we have tried to say YES as much as possible. I think having twins and the added stress that brings to a family (there are a lot of great things about it but it is a whole different situation!) then being pregnant with our 4th and having him - has just made my tolerance lower and I am quicker to say No versus parenting the way both my husband and I would like to. Reading everything everyone wrote has helped me see we just need to work day in and day out on getting back to where we want to be! I want a quick answer and I want a step by step process - but I know that isn't possible and we just have to change our mindset and go from there.
Thanks for all the great links - I read through everything and think I have a better handle on where to go from here!
Why does it have to be so hard to let go and just let our kids make their own decisions and be who and how they want to be!! It seems like it should be so easy . . . I know we can do it - we just need to be conscious of our actions!
Thanks!!!!
Bryanna
chris ester
On Fri, Dec 28, 2012 at 5:09 PM, Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
react to a new food with a 'stuff your face' response....
I was never raised with food limits as a child and so I never placed limits
on my children in their food choices. They never seemed to over eat or
obsess on any one particular food. I always tried to keep a variety of
good food in the house (both in the nutrition sense and the yummy sense)
and paid attention when the tikes seemed to like something so that I could
get it again.
Then one day we were at a friend's house for a birthday party. My children
were basically both toddlers (3 and 1) at the time and they were offered
potato chips. I never bought chips back then because money was tight and I
can't eat a lot of sodium and would rather have other snacks anyway. My
husband never asked me to get some (I do most of the shopping) and it never
occurred to me that my children had never had them.
Well, both of my kids acted as though they had never eaten anything before
in their lives that tasted so good!! I was a little embarrassed when the
ate two platefulls of chips between them, but didn't try to stop them and I
didn't make commentary about the amount. I did say something about the
fact that they hadn't had chips before and laughed because we always had
chocolate, other candies, cookies and various other kinds of snacks in the
house free for the taking.
It took a couple of months before a bag of chips could last more than a day
or two in our home, But to make sure that they didn't feel deprived, I
made sure to have some salty snacks in the house. Eventually chips and
other salty things faded into the background though it took a while.
I joked about this the other day and my kids don't even remember when they
would seek chips (of various sorts) above all else.
Chris
------------------------
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> **Even when children aren't intentionally raised with food limits, they can
>
>
> >>>>>>>>-=-defooded-=-
>
> PLEASE don't make words up. It's important. Honest it is.
>
> You never fooded them. You can't "defood" them.
>
> The clearer you can be about what you're doing and why, the better your
> lives will be.<<<<<<<
>
> I love how clearly you put this.
>
> >>>>>>>>>>If you hadn't had limits, they wouldn't be so excited about the
> availability of previously-limited food. You're not dealing with something
> ntural or normal. You're dealing with the result of saying no.
>
> This article will probably help you understand the generality.
> http://sandradodd.com/t/economiccs
>
>
> -=-What is the "average" time it takes for them to get over the stuff your
> face with sweets stage? -=-
>
> My kids never had a stage like that. There is no natural "stuff your face
> with sweets stage."
> There is (and always will be, and cannot help but be) a reaction to
> deprivation, and to having been limited.<<<<<<<<
>
react to a new food with a 'stuff your face' response....
I was never raised with food limits as a child and so I never placed limits
on my children in their food choices. They never seemed to over eat or
obsess on any one particular food. I always tried to keep a variety of
good food in the house (both in the nutrition sense and the yummy sense)
and paid attention when the tikes seemed to like something so that I could
get it again.
Then one day we were at a friend's house for a birthday party. My children
were basically both toddlers (3 and 1) at the time and they were offered
potato chips. I never bought chips back then because money was tight and I
can't eat a lot of sodium and would rather have other snacks anyway. My
husband never asked me to get some (I do most of the shopping) and it never
occurred to me that my children had never had them.
Well, both of my kids acted as though they had never eaten anything before
in their lives that tasted so good!! I was a little embarrassed when the
ate two platefulls of chips between them, but didn't try to stop them and I
didn't make commentary about the amount. I did say something about the
fact that they hadn't had chips before and laughed because we always had
chocolate, other candies, cookies and various other kinds of snacks in the
house free for the taking.
It took a couple of months before a bag of chips could last more than a day
or two in our home, But to make sure that they didn't feel deprived, I
made sure to have some salty snacks in the house. Eventually chips and
other salty things faded into the background though it took a while.
I joked about this the other day and my kids don't even remember when they
would seek chips (of various sorts) above all else.
Chris
------------------------
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-Why does it have to be so hard to let go and just let our kids make their own decisions and be who and how they want to be!! -=-
It doesn't have to be hard.
http://sandradodd.com/haveto
If your priority is to keep the peace with friends or relatives who are harsh with and about kids, then it will be difficult.
If your priority becomes the relationship with your child, it will become easier to choose toward the wholeness and health of your child.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
It doesn't have to be hard.
http://sandradodd.com/haveto
If your priority is to keep the peace with friends or relatives who are harsh with and about kids, then it will be difficult.
If your priority becomes the relationship with your child, it will become easier to choose toward the wholeness and health of your child.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tori
Our kids do this too--especially our son who loves numbers and other systems of order. I concur with Colleen, that it's a great pleasure for me to watch our kids eat how much they want, to know when they want more and when they really didn't want it, or so much of it, after all.
Another beautiful aspect of not making treats a rare commodity is that both of our kids readily share with us and any guests who visit. They know there is enough.
We know kids from families where treats are limited. Those kids tend to be greedy around treats or resentful of the relative abundance. It makes me sad, when something like a cookie or piece of candy could be
a simple pleasure.
To me it's about more than the treats though....Sandra mentioned, "Food, playing, sleeping, climbing, singing... they are not separate areas of life when you understand the larger principles and move toward being your child's partner." Respecting and supporting our kids in their choices is about helping them be happy and confident about who they are and the lives they're living.
Tori
Another beautiful aspect of not making treats a rare commodity is that both of our kids readily share with us and any guests who visit. They know there is enough.
We know kids from families where treats are limited. Those kids tend to be greedy around treats or resentful of the relative abundance. It makes me sad, when something like a cookie or piece of candy could be
a simple pleasure.
To me it's about more than the treats though....Sandra mentioned, "Food, playing, sleeping, climbing, singing... they are not separate areas of life when you understand the larger principles and move toward being your child's partner." Respecting and supporting our kids in their choices is about helping them be happy and confident about who they are and the lives they're living.
Tori
--- In [email protected], "Robert and Colleen" <3potatoes@...> wrote:
>
> Many evenings somewhere between dinner and bed, my 9 year old says "now I'm
> going to have SIX cookies!!" - by which he means he is going to take 6
> Trader Joe's vanilla sandwich cookies, place them on a spread-out napkin,
> one cookie in each corner, and two in the middle - and then eat sometimes
> two, sometimes three, and rarely more than four.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
jencookies43
We went to a potluck and brought beautiful cupcakes. So did a few other people. We ended up with quite a few leftover cupcakes to take home. On our way home we see an old abandoned building with a really high winding staircase that leads to nowhere or anywhere depending on your imagination. This is a place that we have stopped off to explore many times. It's just an awesome place to throw rocks, pretend, look at, wonder about, etc. So, we stop there and the kids decide to climb the staircase and see what happens if you drop a cupcake from 20 feet in the air.... It's pretty funny sounding when it splats on the ground. They decided to save a few to sling shot when we got back home.
Have fun with your food. Buy cupcakes and M&Ms. Also, buy asparagus and bananas. When the kids go grocery shopping with me and as we go down the isles I ask, what are we going to eat this week? Sometimes they choose dragon fruit, beef jerky, donuts, corn dogs, asparagus, chicken, fish..... If they don't go with me, I still ask, what are we going to eat this week? I just add to my list of things we all want.
My mother-in-law taught me a valuable lesson when my kids were small. Let them eat and have fun doing it. Don't put my anxieties on them. We were at a little league game and she bought them giant pixie sticks. They are plastic tubes about a foot long filled with flavored sugar. I looked at her like she was crazy for giving my kids all that sugar!! She looked at me like just wait and see. She gave them the pixie sticks while I stood by watching and waiting. Honestly I thought they would probably get sick from eating so much sugar. They loved their Nanna for buying them such a great "toy". Toy??? Yes, toy. They tasted the sugar and enjoyed it. They also jumped up and down watching most of the sugar fly away on the wind. It was a fun and delightful memory for us all.
We have an annual get together with friends. It's called, Play with Your Food Day". Every family brings a variety of foods (fruit, candies, veggies) and a box of toothpicks. The kids take the food and build whatever with it using the toothpicks to hold it all together. Super fun munching and building.
Have fun with your food. Buy cupcakes and M&Ms. Also, buy asparagus and bananas. When the kids go grocery shopping with me and as we go down the isles I ask, what are we going to eat this week? Sometimes they choose dragon fruit, beef jerky, donuts, corn dogs, asparagus, chicken, fish..... If they don't go with me, I still ask, what are we going to eat this week? I just add to my list of things we all want.
My mother-in-law taught me a valuable lesson when my kids were small. Let them eat and have fun doing it. Don't put my anxieties on them. We were at a little league game and she bought them giant pixie sticks. They are plastic tubes about a foot long filled with flavored sugar. I looked at her like she was crazy for giving my kids all that sugar!! She looked at me like just wait and see. She gave them the pixie sticks while I stood by watching and waiting. Honestly I thought they would probably get sick from eating so much sugar. They loved their Nanna for buying them such a great "toy". Toy??? Yes, toy. They tasted the sugar and enjoyed it. They also jumped up and down watching most of the sugar fly away on the wind. It was a fun and delightful memory for us all.
We have an annual get together with friends. It's called, Play with Your Food Day". Every family brings a variety of foods (fruit, candies, veggies) and a box of toothpicks. The kids take the food and build whatever with it using the toothpicks to hold it all together. Super fun munching and building.
Meredith
chris ester <chris.homeschool@...> wrote:
Personally, I found it helped to move away from using expressions like binge or gorge or "stuff your face" and use the word "feast". A feast is celebratory and feasting can be a delightful celebration of life and many levels of nourishment.
---Meredith
>> Even when children aren't intentionally raised with food limits, they canOr seasonal foods for that matter - which might be "in season" fruits or vegetables, or it might be other kinds of seasonal fare. Right now, in Tennessee and probably other parts of the southern US, it's time for boiled custard - a relative of egg nog - and it's hard to keep the stuff in the house we drink it so fast. In the spring, it will be fresh strawberries and (if I remember to plant them early enough) new peas eatten right off the plant, and the kinds of candy which mostly only show up around easter, like peeps and hollow chocolate bunnies.
> react to a new food with a 'stuff your face' response....
Personally, I found it helped to move away from using expressions like binge or gorge or "stuff your face" and use the word "feast". A feast is celebratory and feasting can be a delightful celebration of life and many levels of nourishment.
---Meredith
Robert and Colleen
****Even when children aren't intentionally raised with food limits, they
can react to a new food with a 'stuff your face' response....****
When it comes to fruits and veggies, our family eats mostly what we buy from
local farms or farmers' markets or what we grow in our own garden (we're
always willing to buy any non-local fruits and veggies our son wants at the
grocery store as well, but for the most part he too prefers what's
local/in-season because he says it tastes better).
This means asparagus every day (sometimes twice/day :-)) in the Spring,
apples in various forms throughout the day in Fall, winter squash piled high
in October and November, tomatoes and tomato sauce and tomato salad
throughout the heat of summer, as many raspberries and cucumbers as we can
enjoy during their times - and if one were to visit our house on certain
days during melon season, it would probably appear that we had enough on
hand to feed a small village though it's just my husband here who likes it,
and he eats and eats it til it disappears til the following year :-)
Happily, it has never occurred to me to think of the way we eat in-season
foods as gorging or "stuffing our faces" - any more than I'd want my husband
to say (or think) that I'd stuffed my face with dark chocolate this holiday
season, since I ate more than I do during other times of the year - or any
more than I'd say (or think) that my son stuffed himself with the new kind
of cinnamon cookies my sister baked him for Christmas. He'd never had
cinnamon cookies before, loved them, and a tin of them disappeared within a
couple days. He was eating and enjoying though - not stuffing. I think
enjoying paints a much happier mental picture :-)
Colleen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
can react to a new food with a 'stuff your face' response....****
When it comes to fruits and veggies, our family eats mostly what we buy from
local farms or farmers' markets or what we grow in our own garden (we're
always willing to buy any non-local fruits and veggies our son wants at the
grocery store as well, but for the most part he too prefers what's
local/in-season because he says it tastes better).
This means asparagus every day (sometimes twice/day :-)) in the Spring,
apples in various forms throughout the day in Fall, winter squash piled high
in October and November, tomatoes and tomato sauce and tomato salad
throughout the heat of summer, as many raspberries and cucumbers as we can
enjoy during their times - and if one were to visit our house on certain
days during melon season, it would probably appear that we had enough on
hand to feed a small village though it's just my husband here who likes it,
and he eats and eats it til it disappears til the following year :-)
Happily, it has never occurred to me to think of the way we eat in-season
foods as gorging or "stuffing our faces" - any more than I'd want my husband
to say (or think) that I'd stuffed my face with dark chocolate this holiday
season, since I ate more than I do during other times of the year - or any
more than I'd say (or think) that my son stuffed himself with the new kind
of cinnamon cookies my sister baked him for Christmas. He'd never had
cinnamon cookies before, loved them, and a tin of them disappeared within a
couple days. He was eating and enjoying though - not stuffing. I think
enjoying paints a much happier mental picture :-)
Colleen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
tania
dear bryanna,
we never had restrictions, our son is mostly coming along when my
husband does the shopping, can choose his stuff himself. i can tell
you how we do.
Am 28/dic/12 um 19:14 schrieb Bryanna:
it is not the right thing to start with a popsicle for you it can
still be the right thing for your child. letting go of "how much and
what they should eat" it is for me the step before letting go of
restrictions.
usually getting the very needed things (this of course is not limited
to sweets). he does so also for me - not only but especially during
pregnancy ;-). i also love to make an extra dish for my son who does
eat nearly all the stuff we like but sometimes anyway prefers a simple
rice with tomatosauce. or pancakes late at night. or roasted potatoes.
"stuffing your face" anymore is so strict that you will never meet on
a basis which feels good for you? if you change your ideas about
healthy foods they could come out of the "stuffing-stage" pretty soon.
fruit and vegges home and especially not in a quantity we would love
to consume. we do always have selfmade icecream in the fridge. and we
have always dark chocolate and milk home - this makes for a quick
treat. the rest is up to our mood when we go shopping (once a week
normally). our son is coming along or telling us before what he wants
(again: not only sweets. the most important item for him is fresh fish).
we do sometimes ask our son to choose a different product because of
price. to take the less coloured box of cereals for example because it
is cheaper. if it is important to him he is choosing the coloured one
anyway but often he agrees on a cheaper item. same my husband and i do
with each other. and making sweets and salty treats at home is a very
nice, messy and rewarding activity. (for the sake of my teeth i do use
xylitol instead of sugar.)
i hope that was understandable and maybe even helpful, tania wth son
4y and son 3m
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
we never had restrictions, our son is mostly coming along when my
husband does the shopping, can choose his stuff himself. i can tell
you how we do.
Am 28/dic/12 um 19:14 schrieb Bryanna:
> 1 - is 3 years old the wrong age to do this? (At 6:30 this morningdo you have precise ideas about how to start the morning foodwise? if
> they all wanted a popsicle . . . Then yesterday I bought a pound of
> M&M's and they are already gone)
>
it is not the right thing to start with a popsicle for you it can
still be the right thing for your child. letting go of "how much and
what they should eat" it is for me the step before letting go of
restrictions.
>depends how big the need. if my husband is not very tired he is
>
> 2 - When the candy, cookies, popsicles, etc - that I have bought are
> gone do I rush out to buy more - or just tell them we will get more
> next time we go to the store (which may not be for another week?)
>
usually getting the very needed things (this of course is not limited
to sweets). he does so also for me - not only but especially during
pregnancy ;-). i also love to make an extra dish for my son who does
eat nearly all the stuff we like but sometimes anyway prefers a simple
rice with tomatosauce. or pancakes late at night. or roasted potatoes.
> 3 - My husband is a little skeptical about it - but I really feel weno idea. what if it never stops? maybe your idea how much is not
> can get there!! What is the "average" time it takes for them to get
> over the stuff your face with sweets stage? A week, a month, longer?
> I know it is different for everyone but just looking for some insight.
>
"stuffing your face" anymore is so strict that you will never meet on
a basis which feels good for you? if you change your ideas about
healthy foods they could come out of the "stuffing-stage" pretty soon.
> 4 - Once they are defooded - do I just buy things when they ask, orwe dont have much money. we certainly dont have always the favourite
> do I always make sure we have the sweets, cookies, fruits, veggies,
> etc on hand?
>
fruit and vegges home and especially not in a quantity we would love
to consume. we do always have selfmade icecream in the fridge. and we
have always dark chocolate and milk home - this makes for a quick
treat. the rest is up to our mood when we go shopping (once a week
normally). our son is coming along or telling us before what he wants
(again: not only sweets. the most important item for him is fresh fish).
we do sometimes ask our son to choose a different product because of
price. to take the less coloured box of cereals for example because it
is cheaper. if it is important to him he is choosing the coloured one
anyway but often he agrees on a cheaper item. same my husband and i do
with each other. and making sweets and salty treats at home is a very
nice, messy and rewarding activity. (for the sake of my teeth i do use
xylitol instead of sugar.)
i hope that was understandable and maybe even helpful, tania wth son
4y and son 3m
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-do you have precise ideas about how to start the morning foodwise? if
it is not the right thing to start with a popsicle for you it can
still be the right thing for your child.-=-
While this is true, I think few people could smell hot food and then want a popsicle. Some parents underestimate the allure of the smell and appearance of food. Just asking, in a cold kitchen, "What do you want to eat?" shouldn't happen every day. The smell of cooking is wonderfully valuable. Even the smell of hot toast with butter can stimulate a child's salivation (not just a child). And in the Netherlands where Tania is (I think) they put chocolate sprinkles on toast and that smells great, too. :-)
But I was thinking bacon. That's a smell that will wake people up happily. (Apologies to those for whom bacon is off the menu for religious reasons.)
This is quite true:
-=-what if it never stops? maybe your idea how much is not
"stuffing your face" anymore is so strict that you will never meet on
a basis which feels good for you? if you change your ideas about
healthy foods they could come out of the "stuffing-stage" pretty soon.-=-
Seeing a child directly and lovingly is more important than measuring his intake.
If the child fears the mother has only temporarily allowed more sweets, he is wise to eat as much as possible before she changes her mind again.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
it is not the right thing to start with a popsicle for you it can
still be the right thing for your child.-=-
While this is true, I think few people could smell hot food and then want a popsicle. Some parents underestimate the allure of the smell and appearance of food. Just asking, in a cold kitchen, "What do you want to eat?" shouldn't happen every day. The smell of cooking is wonderfully valuable. Even the smell of hot toast with butter can stimulate a child's salivation (not just a child). And in the Netherlands where Tania is (I think) they put chocolate sprinkles on toast and that smells great, too. :-)
But I was thinking bacon. That's a smell that will wake people up happily. (Apologies to those for whom bacon is off the menu for religious reasons.)
This is quite true:
-=-what if it never stops? maybe your idea how much is not
"stuffing your face" anymore is so strict that you will never meet on
a basis which feels good for you? if you change your ideas about
healthy foods they could come out of the "stuffing-stage" pretty soon.-=-
Seeing a child directly and lovingly is more important than measuring his intake.
If the child fears the mother has only temporarily allowed more sweets, he is wise to eat as much as possible before she changes her mind again.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-And in the Netherlands where Tania is (I think) they put chocolate sprinkles on toast and that smells great, too. :-) -=-
Ah, right; Italy. Sorry. :-)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ah, right; Italy. Sorry. :-)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
chris ester
On Sat, Dec 29, 2012 at 12:39 AM, Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
exhausting, soul sucking job) stress contributed to me being very reactive
and jumpy (I realized later that this was because I was tired and
frustrated and so angry) and so much more apt to so 'NO!!'.
I realized that I was not making the relationships in my family and our
mutual joy a priority. So I went back to some meditative practices that I
learned as a teen. I started breathing more, listening more, paying
attention to the people around me and pausing before answering. I became
more mindful of life and less focused on my own internal state of stress
and confusion. I firmly set my priorities as being my children, my
husband, other family that was very close and involved and striving for
peaceful, joyous relationships in the world that I was living in.
Eventually I got to where I wanted to be in myself (being able to become a
full time householder helped) and my relationships, or at least a lot
closer than I was....
But it all started with taking a breath and paying attention to people in
my life (particularly the little people for whom I am responsible) and
asking myself what is the most joyful, the most relaxed and then making
that choice.
My first advice to new homeschoolers is always, "Take a deep breath and
smile, it will be okay."
Chris
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> **When my kids were young and I had to work outside of the house (an
>
>
> >>>>>-=-Why does it have to be so hard to let go and just let our kids
> make their own decisions and be who and how they want to be!! -=-
>
> It doesn't have to be hard.
> http://sandradodd.com/haveto
>
> If your priority is to keep the peace with friends or relatives who are
> harsh with and about kids, then it will be difficult.
> If your priority becomes the relationship with your child, it will become
> easier to choose toward the wholeness and health of your child.
>
> Sandra<<,<<<<
>
exhausting, soul sucking job) stress contributed to me being very reactive
and jumpy (I realized later that this was because I was tired and
frustrated and so angry) and so much more apt to so 'NO!!'.
I realized that I was not making the relationships in my family and our
mutual joy a priority. So I went back to some meditative practices that I
learned as a teen. I started breathing more, listening more, paying
attention to the people around me and pausing before answering. I became
more mindful of life and less focused on my own internal state of stress
and confusion. I firmly set my priorities as being my children, my
husband, other family that was very close and involved and striving for
peaceful, joyous relationships in the world that I was living in.
Eventually I got to where I wanted to be in myself (being able to become a
full time householder helped) and my relationships, or at least a lot
closer than I was....
But it all started with taking a breath and paying attention to people in
my life (particularly the little people for whom I am responsible) and
asking myself what is the most joyful, the most relaxed and then making
that choice.
My first advice to new homeschoolers is always, "Take a deep breath and
smile, it will be okay."
Chris
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]