Unsupportive partner - situation approaching crisis
vafnord23
I have been unschooling my children Miriam (5.5) and Lydia (7.5) since before they were born. I literally couldn't face the idea of even having children until I found out about unschooling. It's always been pretty great, and recently it has become even better as I realized I was "fake" unschooling food, and dropped that burden.
My husband has never shown much interest in learning about childhood development or educational theories, but he has been willing to go along with what I wanted to do. His attitude came across as "You want to do this thing, so you do it." I gave up asking him to read things a long time ago because he wouldn't read them. It seems like I made a really big mistake in giving up on that, but it hurt so much to get rejected over and over.
I realized recently, after a very uncomfortable conversation with my husband, that he thinks unschooling is bullshit and always has. He demanded that I convince him that our children are learning. I told him that I wished he would read some about unschooling (I was thinking of Sandra's site), and he said something like "just because I didn't read that guy's book", and I asked "What guy?" and he said "John Holt!" and in a voice dripping with contempt, started to describe John Taylor Gatto. He described the idea that children can learn without being taught as "ridiculous". He demanded to know how our 7.5 yo was going to learn calculus. He complained that he didn't know what to say when his parents asked what our kids were doing. He belittled our children's interests. He worried aloud about strangers thinking our 7.5 yo is "slow".
I sent him http://sandradodd.com/tv to read over, and the only response I got from him were snarky comments about the Carl Sagan quote.
In short, my husband has not deschooled, and in fact has absolutely no interest in doing so, or reading any of the arguments for the benefit of doing so. If he insists that our children go to school, I don't know if there's any way I'll be able to stop it, considering the state's position on schooling. I realized during the long dark night I had alone after this conversation, that if he insists our children go to school, that will eliminate the last reason I have for being married to him.
How do I go forward from here?
My husband has never shown much interest in learning about childhood development or educational theories, but he has been willing to go along with what I wanted to do. His attitude came across as "You want to do this thing, so you do it." I gave up asking him to read things a long time ago because he wouldn't read them. It seems like I made a really big mistake in giving up on that, but it hurt so much to get rejected over and over.
I realized recently, after a very uncomfortable conversation with my husband, that he thinks unschooling is bullshit and always has. He demanded that I convince him that our children are learning. I told him that I wished he would read some about unschooling (I was thinking of Sandra's site), and he said something like "just because I didn't read that guy's book", and I asked "What guy?" and he said "John Holt!" and in a voice dripping with contempt, started to describe John Taylor Gatto. He described the idea that children can learn without being taught as "ridiculous". He demanded to know how our 7.5 yo was going to learn calculus. He complained that he didn't know what to say when his parents asked what our kids were doing. He belittled our children's interests. He worried aloud about strangers thinking our 7.5 yo is "slow".
I sent him http://sandradodd.com/tv to read over, and the only response I got from him were snarky comments about the Carl Sagan quote.
In short, my husband has not deschooled, and in fact has absolutely no interest in doing so, or reading any of the arguments for the benefit of doing so. If he insists that our children go to school, I don't know if there's any way I'll be able to stop it, considering the state's position on schooling. I realized during the long dark night I had alone after this conversation, that if he insists our children go to school, that will eliminate the last reason I have for being married to him.
How do I go forward from here?
Sandra Dodd
-=-I have been unschooling my children Miriam (5.5) and Lydia (7.5) since before they were born. I literally couldn't face the idea of even having children until I found out about unschooling-=-
If someone wants to be an unschooler and can't manage to do all the things it takes to make it happen well, then I don't think she should say she has been doing it for over seven and a half years. I guess over eight years, if you're counting the pregnancy.
One of the things involved is getting your partner on board with it.
It's possible that when the kids were young he didn't care because they wouldn't have been in school anyway. And that's why I don't like to support people's claims that they're unschooling before their kids are of compulsory school age, because if their kids DO go to school, then they weren't unschooling.
You need your spouse's approval and cooperation for unschooling to work. A marriage and school would be better for your children than a divorce and school. So at this point, your best bet might be to put them in school. I'm serious, and this is why:
If they enter school, you can still do cool things with them, and help them. If school isn't going well for them, your husband will know for sure that you know a good alternative, and if you unschool after that, it will be his decision too, and that's powerful and solid.
If they go to school and they like it, it's possible that the school damage that kept you from wanting to have children is your burden to overcome, and some counselling and recovery would help you, and you shouldn't pass your trauma on to your children.
If you get a divorce, and your kids are in school, then your husband might remarry someone who's even MORE pro-school, and who has other ideas you don't agree with.
If you stay married, your children grow up with both parents. If you learn to get along with your husband, maybe he'll even be grateful and appreciative enough to try homeschooling again just because you want to.
You haven't been his partner, in this area. Now you're adversaries.
The marriage is more important than the unschooling.
http://sandradodd.com/divorce
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
If someone wants to be an unschooler and can't manage to do all the things it takes to make it happen well, then I don't think she should say she has been doing it for over seven and a half years. I guess over eight years, if you're counting the pregnancy.
One of the things involved is getting your partner on board with it.
It's possible that when the kids were young he didn't care because they wouldn't have been in school anyway. And that's why I don't like to support people's claims that they're unschooling before their kids are of compulsory school age, because if their kids DO go to school, then they weren't unschooling.
You need your spouse's approval and cooperation for unschooling to work. A marriage and school would be better for your children than a divorce and school. So at this point, your best bet might be to put them in school. I'm serious, and this is why:
If they enter school, you can still do cool things with them, and help them. If school isn't going well for them, your husband will know for sure that you know a good alternative, and if you unschool after that, it will be his decision too, and that's powerful and solid.
If they go to school and they like it, it's possible that the school damage that kept you from wanting to have children is your burden to overcome, and some counselling and recovery would help you, and you shouldn't pass your trauma on to your children.
If you get a divorce, and your kids are in school, then your husband might remarry someone who's even MORE pro-school, and who has other ideas you don't agree with.
If you stay married, your children grow up with both parents. If you learn to get along with your husband, maybe he'll even be grateful and appreciative enough to try homeschooling again just because you want to.
You haven't been his partner, in this area. Now you're adversaries.
The marriage is more important than the unschooling.
http://sandradodd.com/divorce
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
teresa
What if you agreed to put them in school, say, at the winter break. You could make between now and then as fantastic as you could--super fun stuff for the whole family--musuems, water parks, visiting new cities and relatives, festivals, living history events, whole-house forts, cool toys, puppet shows, big art projects, theater matinees, hikes through the woods, whatever the whole 9 yards looks like for your family.
Your husband may relax into the experiences knowing that school would be coming, but meanwhile, you would be having a really great time together, learning together, and that would be something to build on in the future. It might open up possibilities that seem pretty closed right now.
But, I think this kind of thing would only work if you were really, truly open to them being in school at the end of it. I think if you set your husband up for a switcheroo, it could make things way worse.
Teresa
Your husband may relax into the experiences knowing that school would be coming, but meanwhile, you would be having a really great time together, learning together, and that would be something to build on in the future. It might open up possibilities that seem pretty closed right now.
But, I think this kind of thing would only work if you were really, truly open to them being in school at the end of it. I think if you set your husband up for a switcheroo, it could make things way worse.
Teresa
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
> -=-I have been unschooling my children Miriam (5.5) and Lydia (7.5) since before they were born. I literally couldn't face the idea of even having children until I found out about unschooling-=-
>
> If someone wants to be an unschooler and can't manage to do all the things it takes to make it happen well, then I don't think she should say she has been doing it for over seven and a half years. I guess over eight years, if you're counting the pregnancy.
>
> One of the things involved is getting your partner on board with it.
>
> It's possible that when the kids were young he didn't care because they wouldn't have been in school anyway. And that's why I don't like to support people's claims that they're unschooling before their kids are of compulsory school age, because if their kids DO go to school, then they weren't unschooling.
>
> You need your spouse's approval and cooperation for unschooling to work. A marriage and school would be better for your children than a divorce and school. So at this point, your best bet might be to put them in school. I'm serious, and this is why:
>
> If they enter school, you can still do cool things with them, and help them. If school isn't going well for them, your husband will know for sure that you know a good alternative, and if you unschool after that, it will be his decision too, and that's powerful and solid.
>
> If they go to school and they like it, it's possible that the school damage that kept you from wanting to have children is your burden to overcome, and some counselling and recovery would help you, and you shouldn't pass your trauma on to your children.
>
> If you get a divorce, and your kids are in school, then your husband might remarry someone who's even MORE pro-school, and who has other ideas you don't agree with.
>
> If you stay married, your children grow up with both parents. If you learn to get along with your husband, maybe he'll even be grateful and appreciative enough to try homeschooling again just because you want to.
>
> You haven't been his partner, in this area. Now you're adversaries.
>
> The marriage is more important than the unschooling.
> http://sandradodd.com/divorce
>
> Sandra
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
plaidpanties666
"vafnord23" <vafnord@...> wrote:
He needs your help in order to see what his kids are learning in ways that make sense to him. Don't just ask him to trust - he's getting all sorts of messages from co-workers and his own parents that it's crazy to trust kids to learn what they need to know. Give him some data. I'm going to guess that you live somewhere you don't have to report much of anything to the government, so do some research into the kinds of documentation other homeschoolers need to provide - maybe something like that would reassure him that his kids aren't turning into... zombie couch toasters.
So don't set him up to feel like he has to insist. Show him that what you're doing is setting his kids up to succeed in ways which are meaningful to him. Even if it means backing away from some kind of unschooling ideal.
Don't expect him to learn by reading - this is life, not school! Not everyone learns by reading books and articles ;) He needs to see real evidence of how unschooling works - and right now, he's not seeing it. Help him out. Show him that what he's looking for is there, it's just happening a little differently than it would in school. Give him answers to those awkward questions so he can say "oh, yeah, homeschooling is so cool - My Kids..." etc etc.
---Meredith
>He described the idea that children can learn without being taught as "ridiculous".****************
He needs your help in order to see what his kids are learning in ways that make sense to him. Don't just ask him to trust - he's getting all sorts of messages from co-workers and his own parents that it's crazy to trust kids to learn what they need to know. Give him some data. I'm going to guess that you live somewhere you don't have to report much of anything to the government, so do some research into the kinds of documentation other homeschoolers need to provide - maybe something like that would reassure him that his kids aren't turning into... zombie couch toasters.
>>He worried aloud about strangers thinking our 7.5 yo is "slow".Is she? If not, can you show him that? If she is, can you show him you're doing something to help?
>If he insists that our children go to school, I don't know if there's any way I'll be able to stop it************
So don't set him up to feel like he has to insist. Show him that what you're doing is setting his kids up to succeed in ways which are meaningful to him. Even if it means backing away from some kind of unschooling ideal.
>He belittled our children's interests.Maybe he's panicking. Try to see his perspective - he has two school-age kids and so Of Course everyone asks "how are your kids doing in school?" and then "oh, homeschooling? how does that work? what are they studying?" Ummmmm..... The poor guy is hanging out on a wire trying to justify some crazy theories he doesn't understand.
Don't expect him to learn by reading - this is life, not school! Not everyone learns by reading books and articles ;) He needs to see real evidence of how unschooling works - and right now, he's not seeing it. Help him out. Show him that what he's looking for is there, it's just happening a little differently than it would in school. Give him answers to those awkward questions so he can say "oh, yeah, homeschooling is so cool - My Kids..." etc etc.
---Meredith
Sandra Dodd
-=-Don't expect him to learn by reading - this is life, not school! Not everyone learns by reading books and articles ;) He needs to see real evidence of how unschooling works - and right now, he's not seeing it.-=-
Yeah...
If you're in or near Florida and can afford it, try to get in on the imminent conference there. Ben Lovejoy is persuasive. Broc Higgins and my guy, Keith Dodd, will be there, too.
http://floridaunschoolingconference.com
It's probably too late to even talk to him about this, and the sessions are on weekdays, but perhaps another conference, if you can find one soon.
But honestly, he let you do things your way for years. You forgot to make part of that to convince him that it was a great idea. So now your turn is over. Take that graciously. Seven years is a long time for your turn in the debate. :-) You seem to have failed to score.
If he has a chance, though, he might decide your way is a good way, given a couple of years. Maybe more, maybe less
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yeah...
If you're in or near Florida and can afford it, try to get in on the imminent conference there. Ben Lovejoy is persuasive. Broc Higgins and my guy, Keith Dodd, will be there, too.
http://floridaunschoolingconference.com
It's probably too late to even talk to him about this, and the sessions are on weekdays, but perhaps another conference, if you can find one soon.
But honestly, he let you do things your way for years. You forgot to make part of that to convince him that it was a great idea. So now your turn is over. Take that graciously. Seven years is a long time for your turn in the debate. :-) You seem to have failed to score.
If he has a chance, though, he might decide your way is a good way, given a couple of years. Maybe more, maybe less
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
aldq75
-=- Don't expect him to learn by reading - this is life, not school! Not everyone learns by reading books and articles ;) He needs to see real evidence of how unschooling works - and right now, he's not seeing it. Help him out. Show him that what he's looking for is there, it's just happening a little differently than it would in school. Give him answers to those awkward questions so he can say "oh, yeah, homeschooling is so cool - My Kids..." etc etc. -=-
My husband works long hours and we don't always get a lot of time to talk in the evenings. One way I show him what we've been doing is through photos on Flickr. I take pictures of adventures, but also of the everyday things we're doing (cooking, reading, games, bugs, outdoor play, Lego creations). I try to post detailed captions when the picture doesn't explain everything. He checks it every month or so and is always pleased with what he sees.
Sometimes we call him during the day to ask for suggestions of how to do (or explain) something or to ask for help with the PC when I'm stuck. That gives him a little snapshot of what's happening at home. Our kids are getting older now and they often are waiting at the door for him so they can tell/show him things. That's much better than me telling him things, but it's a fairly recent, yet spontaneous, addition to our routine.
Andrea Q
My husband works long hours and we don't always get a lot of time to talk in the evenings. One way I show him what we've been doing is through photos on Flickr. I take pictures of adventures, but also of the everyday things we're doing (cooking, reading, games, bugs, outdoor play, Lego creations). I try to post detailed captions when the picture doesn't explain everything. He checks it every month or so and is always pleased with what he sees.
Sometimes we call him during the day to ask for suggestions of how to do (or explain) something or to ask for help with the PC when I'm stuck. That gives him a little snapshot of what's happening at home. Our kids are getting older now and they often are waiting at the door for him so they can tell/show him things. That's much better than me telling him things, but it's a fairly recent, yet spontaneous, addition to our routine.
Andrea Q
dezignarob
==== I have been unschooling my children Miriam (5.5) and Lydia (7.5) since before they were born. I literally couldn't face the idea of even having children until I found out about unschooling. ====
If you describe unschooling in ways that are a bit nutty, like this notion, then it will be harder for your husband to embrace, and honestly you can't unschool children before they are born.
=== I gave up asking him to read things a long time ago because he wouldn't read them. It seems like I made a really big mistake in giving up on that, but it hurt so much to get rejected over and over.===
Lots of guys don't want to read a lot of stuff. They like bullet points and simplicity. My husband prefers things shining from a screen that are brief and pointed.
But there's something else here.
You are taking his dislike of reading this material as a personal rejection, a rejection of you.
What if he felt rejected by your persistent efforts to change him with all this reading? What if every time you mentioned another piece of writing by some unschooling or parenting writer, he heard yet another criticism of himself, and his values, and his efforts for you?
It sounds like you have not met him with compassion or validation. It sounds like every time he expresses a fear or concern, you might have told him in effect, "You don't know what you are talking about. You are ignorant and stupid. Go read these people who are smarter than you in every way".
My husband James totally gets unschooling, has spoken at conferences, and has a deep, intuitive understanding of natural learning. Despite our idyllic unschooling life we do disagree sometimes - usually my fault.
Yet even he gets annoyed if during any kind of conflict I start quoting unschoolers as ammunition for my point of view. Boy, does that irritate him to no end - even though he generally agrees with the info I may be quoting.
=== He demanded that I convince him that our children are learning.===
If our home States can make these demands of so many of us, it is not actually unreasonable that a loving father should wish for reassurance that his children are learning.
If you can possibly let go of the idea that "he demanded" something, let go of returning his demand with one of your own ("read this stuff about other people's kids"), and see instead the loving motive behind it - his need for reassurance, his need to take care of his kids and see them safe and happy - you will find it a much easier need to meet.
I am not sure that your choices are between fully unschooling or putting your kids into school. If asking your kids to join you in doing some math worksheets, or putting together some lap books, or making a poster about some grade appropriate interesting topic, will provide that reassurance to him for now, surely that is less onerous than putting them into school. It might be enough.
=== I told him that I wished he would read some about unschooling (I was thinking of Sandra's site), and he said something like "just because I didn't read that guy's book", and I asked "What guy?" and he said "John Holt!" and in a voice dripping with contempt, started to describe John Taylor Gatto. ===
Well at least he has done some reading. It MAY have been so challenging to him, perhaps even painful if it described some of his schooling past, that it drove him into denial.
He may be reacting with contempt to what he feels is your contempt for him, in comparison to these luminaries.
==== I literally couldn't face the idea of even having children until I found out about unschooling.===
Or it MAY be that you have a lot more school damage to heal than he does. It may be that he genuinely had a ball at school, and really doesn't get what is wrong with schooling.
People are always going to bring their own past experiences and beliefs into any situation. Two people can witness the same event or hear the same story and have two entirely different reactions. Some people will read anything with an eye to confirming their own beliefs.
=== He demanded to know how our 7.5 yo was going to learn calculus. ===
(Bet he found calculus challenging when he was in school.)
This is the slightly hysterical statement of a person in the grip of fear, since no ordinary 7.5 year old (outside of bona fide genius prodigies) studies calculus in school. I wish there was a way for you to kindly say something like, "We can cross that far away bridge when we come to it. Let's talk about what our 7.5 year old should be learning now. What do you need to reassure you?"
Plus it sounds like he was on a roll down the slope of fear. People don't always say perfectly logical things when they are on that scary slope. Sometimes when James gets like that, or I get like that with him, or even Jayn gets into a locked in fear state, all you can do is let the person vent until they run out of steam, without taking any of the statements as serious calls to action, at least not without further examination when you all feel calmer and happier.
=== I realized during the long dark night I had alone after this conversation, that if he insists our children go to school, that will eliminate the last reason I have for being married to him.===
Once upon a time there must have been other reasons that you married. I doubt that any person can be happy knowing that the only reason their spouse is staying with them is to use them as support to facilitate home schooling. If anything this makes you more accountable to him for their learning.
Nothing looks good in a long dark night. There is no situation that benefits from being examined in the emotional pain and inner turmoil and deep, physical drained emptiness of a long dark night. (Obviously I have had some long dark nights in my past life.) How hungry and thirsty and tired were you when you had this realization? How hungry and thirsty and tired were you when you wrote this post?
I would suggest that you spend some time - call it part of your deschooling if it helps you - revisiting the early days of your marriage and courtship. Spend some time recalling what attracted you to him in the first place. Look at photos if you have them. Tell your kids the sweet stories about how you met, your first few dates, your wedding day, how you felt when you knew you were pregnant.
Write down everything for which you are grateful. Do this every day. Tell him. Stroke his arm or hold his hand while you tell him.
Think of your five senses. Write down at least five things (or memories), at least one for each sense, about your husband that brings you joy or inspires your love.
Eat enough. Sleep enough. Get outside in the fresh air and sunshine (or shade if it is hot). Go for walks or swims or rides - bikes? horses?
Don't focus on an approaching crisis. It will become a self-fulfilling prophesy. Don't back yourself or him into a corner where saving face becomes more important than saving your family. Consider being still and quiet instead.
It only takes one person to make a difference by changing the whole dynamic. He is still with you, still fighting for you and your marriage.
Robyn Coburn
http://craft-it-easy.com
http://iggyjingles.blogspot.com
If you describe unschooling in ways that are a bit nutty, like this notion, then it will be harder for your husband to embrace, and honestly you can't unschool children before they are born.
=== I gave up asking him to read things a long time ago because he wouldn't read them. It seems like I made a really big mistake in giving up on that, but it hurt so much to get rejected over and over.===
Lots of guys don't want to read a lot of stuff. They like bullet points and simplicity. My husband prefers things shining from a screen that are brief and pointed.
But there's something else here.
You are taking his dislike of reading this material as a personal rejection, a rejection of you.
What if he felt rejected by your persistent efforts to change him with all this reading? What if every time you mentioned another piece of writing by some unschooling or parenting writer, he heard yet another criticism of himself, and his values, and his efforts for you?
It sounds like you have not met him with compassion or validation. It sounds like every time he expresses a fear or concern, you might have told him in effect, "You don't know what you are talking about. You are ignorant and stupid. Go read these people who are smarter than you in every way".
My husband James totally gets unschooling, has spoken at conferences, and has a deep, intuitive understanding of natural learning. Despite our idyllic unschooling life we do disagree sometimes - usually my fault.
Yet even he gets annoyed if during any kind of conflict I start quoting unschoolers as ammunition for my point of view. Boy, does that irritate him to no end - even though he generally agrees with the info I may be quoting.
=== He demanded that I convince him that our children are learning.===
If our home States can make these demands of so many of us, it is not actually unreasonable that a loving father should wish for reassurance that his children are learning.
If you can possibly let go of the idea that "he demanded" something, let go of returning his demand with one of your own ("read this stuff about other people's kids"), and see instead the loving motive behind it - his need for reassurance, his need to take care of his kids and see them safe and happy - you will find it a much easier need to meet.
I am not sure that your choices are between fully unschooling or putting your kids into school. If asking your kids to join you in doing some math worksheets, or putting together some lap books, or making a poster about some grade appropriate interesting topic, will provide that reassurance to him for now, surely that is less onerous than putting them into school. It might be enough.
=== I told him that I wished he would read some about unschooling (I was thinking of Sandra's site), and he said something like "just because I didn't read that guy's book", and I asked "What guy?" and he said "John Holt!" and in a voice dripping with contempt, started to describe John Taylor Gatto. ===
Well at least he has done some reading. It MAY have been so challenging to him, perhaps even painful if it described some of his schooling past, that it drove him into denial.
He may be reacting with contempt to what he feels is your contempt for him, in comparison to these luminaries.
==== I literally couldn't face the idea of even having children until I found out about unschooling.===
Or it MAY be that you have a lot more school damage to heal than he does. It may be that he genuinely had a ball at school, and really doesn't get what is wrong with schooling.
People are always going to bring their own past experiences and beliefs into any situation. Two people can witness the same event or hear the same story and have two entirely different reactions. Some people will read anything with an eye to confirming their own beliefs.
=== He demanded to know how our 7.5 yo was going to learn calculus. ===
(Bet he found calculus challenging when he was in school.)
This is the slightly hysterical statement of a person in the grip of fear, since no ordinary 7.5 year old (outside of bona fide genius prodigies) studies calculus in school. I wish there was a way for you to kindly say something like, "We can cross that far away bridge when we come to it. Let's talk about what our 7.5 year old should be learning now. What do you need to reassure you?"
Plus it sounds like he was on a roll down the slope of fear. People don't always say perfectly logical things when they are on that scary slope. Sometimes when James gets like that, or I get like that with him, or even Jayn gets into a locked in fear state, all you can do is let the person vent until they run out of steam, without taking any of the statements as serious calls to action, at least not without further examination when you all feel calmer and happier.
=== I realized during the long dark night I had alone after this conversation, that if he insists our children go to school, that will eliminate the last reason I have for being married to him.===
Once upon a time there must have been other reasons that you married. I doubt that any person can be happy knowing that the only reason their spouse is staying with them is to use them as support to facilitate home schooling. If anything this makes you more accountable to him for their learning.
Nothing looks good in a long dark night. There is no situation that benefits from being examined in the emotional pain and inner turmoil and deep, physical drained emptiness of a long dark night. (Obviously I have had some long dark nights in my past life.) How hungry and thirsty and tired were you when you had this realization? How hungry and thirsty and tired were you when you wrote this post?
I would suggest that you spend some time - call it part of your deschooling if it helps you - revisiting the early days of your marriage and courtship. Spend some time recalling what attracted you to him in the first place. Look at photos if you have them. Tell your kids the sweet stories about how you met, your first few dates, your wedding day, how you felt when you knew you were pregnant.
Write down everything for which you are grateful. Do this every day. Tell him. Stroke his arm or hold his hand while you tell him.
Think of your five senses. Write down at least five things (or memories), at least one for each sense, about your husband that brings you joy or inspires your love.
Eat enough. Sleep enough. Get outside in the fresh air and sunshine (or shade if it is hot). Go for walks or swims or rides - bikes? horses?
Don't focus on an approaching crisis. It will become a self-fulfilling prophesy. Don't back yourself or him into a corner where saving face becomes more important than saving your family. Consider being still and quiet instead.
It only takes one person to make a difference by changing the whole dynamic. He is still with you, still fighting for you and your marriage.
Robyn Coburn
http://craft-it-easy.com
http://iggyjingles.blogspot.com
Virginia Warren
==== I have been unschooling my children Miriam (5.5) and Lydia (7.5) since
before they were born. I literally couldn't face the idea of even having
children until I found out about unschooling. ====
you can't unschool children before they are born. <
If unschooling starts with deschooling, as I have read over and over and
over and over on sandradodd.com, what exactly is nutty about saying I
started the process before my children were born?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
before they were born. I literally couldn't face the idea of even having
children until I found out about unschooling. ====
> If you describe unschooling in ways that are a bit nutty, like thisnotion, then it will be harder for your husband to embrace, and honestly
you can't unschool children before they are born. <
If unschooling starts with deschooling, as I have read over and over and
over and over on sandradodd.com, what exactly is nutty about saying I
started the process before my children were born?
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Meredith
Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
---Meredith
> Seven years is a long time for your turn in the debate. :-)While from mom's perspective it's been seven years, it's probably only been an issue for dad for a year or two - since the first child became "school age". Before than, what mom was "doing" with the kids didn't really matter to him; they wouldn't have been in school, anyway.
---Meredith
aldq75
>You didn't say that you started the deschooling process before they were born. You said you had been unschooling *them* from before birth. Those are two very different things.
> If unschooling starts with deschooling, as I have read over and over and
> over and over on sandradodd.com, what exactly is nutty about saying I
> started the process before my children were born?
>
>
Andrea Q
Joyce Fetteroll
On Oct 5, 2012, at 11:18 PM, Virginia Warren wrote:
Wearing a cast to allow a broken leg to heal with the intention of running when it's done healing isn't running.
Someone can't know if they're fully committed to their children learning by living if other kids their age aren't yet in school. The parent can be certain they're committed. But it isn't until compulsory school age starts when all the relatives are raining worry, all the neighbors are quizzing the kids about whether they're learning what they "should" be learning and a parent *doesn't* get concerned and do something schoolish that a parent can truly say they're unschooling.
Joyce
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> If unschooling starts with deschoolingDeschooling isn't unschooling. It's recovery from school. After the recovery period, they don't have to unschool.
Wearing a cast to allow a broken leg to heal with the intention of running when it's done healing isn't running.
> what exactly is nutty about saying INo one said it was nutty.
> started the process before my children were born?
Someone can't know if they're fully committed to their children learning by living if other kids their age aren't yet in school. The parent can be certain they're committed. But it isn't until compulsory school age starts when all the relatives are raining worry, all the neighbors are quizzing the kids about whether they're learning what they "should" be learning and a parent *doesn't* get concerned and do something schoolish that a parent can truly say they're unschooling.
Joyce
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Joyce Fetteroll
On Oct 6, 2012, at 11:39 AM, Joyce Fetteroll wrote:
Joyce
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> No one said it was nutty.Sorry, Sandra did say describing it so was nutty. It was even right there in the quote! Sorry about that.
Joyce
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Tori
My husband is a voracious reader, but he won't read things if I suggest them in order to get him to be a believer in something. He wants to hear from me, in my own words and talking and about our children.
Some of the other posts have suggested that you make a bigger effort to show him how your children are learning. Maybe stop talking about unschooling for awhile and focus on what your kids are actually doing and what they'd love to do.
See if you can apply your unschooling principles when you interact with your husband. (Maybe someone will post some links on Sandra's site..) I read that advice here awhile back and it makes all the difference.
Tori
Some of the other posts have suggested that you make a bigger effort to show him how your children are learning. Maybe stop talking about unschooling for awhile and focus on what your kids are actually doing and what they'd love to do.
See if you can apply your unschooling principles when you interact with your husband. (Maybe someone will post some links on Sandra's site..) I read that advice here awhile back and it makes all the difference.
Tori
--- In [email protected], "vafnord23" <vafnord@...> wrote:
>
> I realized recently, after a very uncomfortable conversation with my husband, that he thinks unschooling is bullshit and always has. He demanded that I convince him that our children are learning. I told him that I wished he would read some about unschooling (I was thinking of Sandra's site), and he said something like "just because I didn't read that guy's book"...
>
>
Sandra Dodd
-=-While from mom's perspective it's been seven years, it's probably only been an issue for dad for a year or two - since the first child became "school age". Before than, what mom was "doing" with the kids didn't really matter to him; they wouldn't have been in school, anyway. -=-
Yes, but she's assuring us she's been unschooling for the whole time.
I object to double-dipping.
Seven years is a long time in a marriage relationship for the mother to fail to communicate how things are going with the children, I think.
The objections to the husband's lack of reading are all well and good, but to leave him to do his own reading instead of sharing the real, direct knowledge the mom must have gained in seven years of thinking about it was a failing.
Sandra
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Yes, but she's assuring us she's been unschooling for the whole time.
I object to double-dipping.
Seven years is a long time in a marriage relationship for the mother to fail to communicate how things are going with the children, I think.
The objections to the husband's lack of reading are all well and good, but to leave him to do his own reading instead of sharing the real, direct knowledge the mom must have gained in seven years of thinking about it was a failing.
Sandra
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Sandra Dodd
-=-Sorry, Sandra did say describing it so was nutty. It was even right there in the quote! Sorry about that.-=-
That was Robyn, not me.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlwaysLearning/message/69272
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That was Robyn, not me.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlwaysLearning/message/69272
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Sandra Dodd
-=-If unschooling starts with deschooling, as I have read over and over and
over and over on sandradodd.com, what exactly is nutty about saying I
started the process before my children were born?-=-
If I said I had been married since before I met my husband, would that seem odd? I met him in 1977, but we didn't get married until 1984. So how long have I been married, really?
By saying you couldn't even consider having children until you found out about unschooling, that really makes your husband seem entirely out of the picture. If you had children because of unschooling, and he doesn't know what it is, how must that make him feel?
Sandra
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over and over on sandradodd.com, what exactly is nutty about saying I
started the process before my children were born?-=-
If I said I had been married since before I met my husband, would that seem odd? I met him in 1977, but we didn't get married until 1984. So how long have I been married, really?
By saying you couldn't even consider having children until you found out about unschooling, that really makes your husband seem entirely out of the picture. If you had children because of unschooling, and he doesn't know what it is, how must that make him feel?
Sandra
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Sandra Dodd
> If unschooling starts with deschoolingJoyce, please clarify. You wrote "Deschooling isn't unschooling. It's recovery from school. After the recovery period, they don't have to unschool."
Do you mean that even though someone recovers from school, it doesn't necessary follow that she will have children or that if she does that she will unschool them?
-=-Someone can't know if they're fully committed to their children learning by living if other kids their age aren't yet in school. The parent can be certain they're committed. But it isn't until compulsory school age starts when all the relatives are raining worry, all the neighbors are quizzing the kids about whether they're learning what they "should" be learning and a parent *doesn't* get concerned and do something schoolish that a parent can truly say they're unschooling.-=-
Yes. Although this IS complicated in places (like Delaware, and Bangalore) where people are sending babies to academic nurseries, with pressure from grandparents and neighbors and friends.
Sandra
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Joyce Fetteroll
On Oct 6, 2012, at 5:33 PM, Sandra Dodd wrote:
The kids might end up back in school.
Joyce
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> Do you mean that even though someone recovers from school,It doesn't necessarily flow that she will unschool them.
> it doesn't necessary follow that she will have children or that
> if she does that she will unschool them?
The kids might end up back in school.
> this IS complicated in places (like Delaware, and Bangalore)It's confusing too because parents need to say they're homeschooling officially while they're deschooling.
> where people are sending babies to academic nurserie
Joyce
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dezignarob
=== how is it nutty ===
That whole long post I made, and this is where you are focusing? Really?
I did write that saying you have been unschooling children from before their births would sound "a bit nutty". Get defensive about that if you want.
But you might also ask yourself whether describing unschooling in a way that probably sounds odd or strange *to your husband*, will help to bring him closer to approval of it.
Or maybe part of the problem is that you aren't explaining it at all, but instead are saying "read this".
If you can't use your own words, clearly and with conviction, to explain how unschooling works, and why it is so inspiring to you, maybe you are giving him the impression that you don't understand it. That might not give him confidence that his precious kids will be ok.
Robyn Coburn
That whole long post I made, and this is where you are focusing? Really?
I did write that saying you have been unschooling children from before their births would sound "a bit nutty". Get defensive about that if you want.
But you might also ask yourself whether describing unschooling in a way that probably sounds odd or strange *to your husband*, will help to bring him closer to approval of it.
Or maybe part of the problem is that you aren't explaining it at all, but instead are saying "read this".
If you can't use your own words, clearly and with conviction, to explain how unschooling works, and why it is so inspiring to you, maybe you are giving him the impression that you don't understand it. That might not give him confidence that his precious kids will be ok.
Robyn Coburn
Sandra Dodd
-=-If you can't use your own words, clearly and with conviction, to explain how unschooling works, and why it is so inspiring to you, maybe you are giving him the impression that you don't understand it. That might not give him confidence that his precious kids will be ok.-=-
Thanks, Robyn.
That's what I meant by the seven years. If someone doesn't really get it after seven years, and have so many clear and exciting stories of learning involving her own children, rather than just telling stories from other families, I can't imagine that unschooling was being done as fully and as well as it could have been.
Unschooling shouldn't just be a passive thing, and a lack of school. It should be full and rich, and involve the dad before too long.
Sandra
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Thanks, Robyn.
That's what I meant by the seven years. If someone doesn't really get it after seven years, and have so many clear and exciting stories of learning involving her own children, rather than just telling stories from other families, I can't imagine that unschooling was being done as fully and as well as it could have been.
Unschooling shouldn't just be a passive thing, and a lack of school. It should be full and rich, and involve the dad before too long.
Sandra
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Marina DeLuca-Howard
What about Board Games, computer games, family reading...baking with dad?
For some people school is not about learning or skills but grades,
socializing, normal/average, or something else. But your partner might be
wanting proof rather than report cards.
How about baking a cake with the kids or a gingerbread house?
We bake a gingerbread house for one for fun every year, so we have a yummy
house covered in icing and candy. In an effort to build a better
gingerbread house, my kids an I learned math skills, design skills, and
engineering:) As the kids got more interested in building a better
house--the cookie recipe changed, size of pieces to build changed, research
was a factor, and measuring was more precise. Of course as with all family
baking we needed: team work, reading, chemistry and math. They learned
what they wanted/needed along the way.
Baking might be a fun way for any dad to enjoy his children's feats of
engineering, math and chemistry :) He can either join in the making or the
eating. Proof of skills is in the pudding quite literally here.
It sounds like you are interested in an alternative lifestyle, have a
fantasy based on reading about unschooling(a big topic) and maybe should
think about focusing on living peacefully, building fun and lively
relationships? Forget rules, "unschooling bibles" and focus on what
principles your family needs for peaceful living.
What about sharing some of dad's hobbies? Music, art or building models?
Relationships help unschooling and sometimes after a situation is fun,
adults relax and see all the learning/knowledge the kids demonstrated or
acquired in pursuit of fun. He is asking for proof of learning, real life
learning not abstract theory by experts--does that mean the kids aren't
playing monopoly with him or chess or checkers? Is he feeling left out?
You don't need to answer just consider if you facilitate sharing
accomplishments with him or if he feels like a paycheck with no other
contribution possible under your rules unless he becomes an expert in
unschooling by doing his "reading homework". If he is feeling more and
more shut out he is going to be upset and confused, hurt or angry or
fearful.
As kids age dads tend to get more involved. Babies tend to need mommy
time, especially breastfed ones, and labour/birth are very mom-centred.
Are you making room for him?
Marina
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For some people school is not about learning or skills but grades,
socializing, normal/average, or something else. But your partner might be
wanting proof rather than report cards.
How about baking a cake with the kids or a gingerbread house?
We bake a gingerbread house for one for fun every year, so we have a yummy
house covered in icing and candy. In an effort to build a better
gingerbread house, my kids an I learned math skills, design skills, and
engineering:) As the kids got more interested in building a better
house--the cookie recipe changed, size of pieces to build changed, research
was a factor, and measuring was more precise. Of course as with all family
baking we needed: team work, reading, chemistry and math. They learned
what they wanted/needed along the way.
Baking might be a fun way for any dad to enjoy his children's feats of
engineering, math and chemistry :) He can either join in the making or the
eating. Proof of skills is in the pudding quite literally here.
It sounds like you are interested in an alternative lifestyle, have a
fantasy based on reading about unschooling(a big topic) and maybe should
think about focusing on living peacefully, building fun and lively
relationships? Forget rules, "unschooling bibles" and focus on what
principles your family needs for peaceful living.
What about sharing some of dad's hobbies? Music, art or building models?
Relationships help unschooling and sometimes after a situation is fun,
adults relax and see all the learning/knowledge the kids demonstrated or
acquired in pursuit of fun. He is asking for proof of learning, real life
learning not abstract theory by experts--does that mean the kids aren't
playing monopoly with him or chess or checkers? Is he feeling left out?
You don't need to answer just consider if you facilitate sharing
accomplishments with him or if he feels like a paycheck with no other
contribution possible under your rules unless he becomes an expert in
unschooling by doing his "reading homework". If he is feeling more and
more shut out he is going to be upset and confused, hurt or angry or
fearful.
As kids age dads tend to get more involved. Babies tend to need mommy
time, especially breastfed ones, and labour/birth are very mom-centred.
Are you making room for him?
Marina
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Joyce Fetteroll
On Oct 5, 2012, at 2:22 PM, vafnord23 wrote:
What advice do you think the unschoolers here would give if it was important to know, like being kind to people?
Husbands are people just like kids. They react to being forced to learn the same way kids do. They react to having their feelings on what's important disregarded the same way kids do.
Ask him. Write them down. Show him you're taking his concerns seriously.
Don't belittle his fears. They're his kids and the fears for them have grown out of proportion since you haven't drawn him in.
It's likely he'll ask for too much. He's frightened. Don't get angry. You created the situation. Go through his points and find a beginning point to tackle them, just a handful of simple things you can show him, that can draw him into connecting with his kids.
If his response was to shove literature at you, would that draw you closer to him and his ideas? What if you didn't trust the literature? What then?
If he seemed more concerned with what he wanted to do with "his" kids, and not about how his project with them was disregarding what you felt was important for them, then what?
Wouldn't it be up to him to ease you in, to make the negative impact on you as little as possible? Wouldn't it be up to him to make sure you could still have your meat/pork until *you* decided -- if ever -- to fully embrace the beliefs with him and the kids?
And what if his new wife is good at drawing him into feeling like they're partners and she thinks a high pressure academic private school would be even better?
If you can't find a way to be *his* partner rather than trying to make him over into your mental clone on the subject of unschooling, then the above scenarios are very likely to happen. There are therapists who specialize in helping people respond in healthier ways to life. It might be called "relationship issues" or "life coaching". If you can't change on your own, it might be worth looking in to.
Joyce
> I gave up asking him to read things a long time ago because he wouldn't read them.If a poster had said she kept trying to get her kids to read something she felt it was important for them to know, do you think unschoolers here would sympathize with her?
What advice do you think the unschoolers here would give if it was important to know, like being kind to people?
Husbands are people just like kids. They react to being forced to learn the same way kids do. They react to having their feelings on what's important disregarded the same way kids do.
> I realized recently, after a very uncomfortable conversation with my husband, that he thinks unschooling is bullshit and always has. He demanded that I convince him that our children are learning.What would he like to see? What would make him comfortable that they're learning?
Ask him. Write them down. Show him you're taking his concerns seriously.
Don't belittle his fears. They're his kids and the fears for them have grown out of proportion since you haven't drawn him in.
It's likely he'll ask for too much. He's frightened. Don't get angry. You created the situation. Go through his points and find a beginning point to tackle them, just a handful of simple things you can show him, that can draw him into connecting with his kids.
> I told him that I wished he would read some about unschoolingIf he were doing something that you felt was damaging them, how would you react?
If his response was to shove literature at you, would that draw you closer to him and his ideas? What if you didn't trust the literature? What then?
If he seemed more concerned with what he wanted to do with "his" kids, and not about how his project with them was disregarding what you felt was important for them, then what?
> He complained that he didn't know what to say when his parents asked what our kids were doing.You could create a blog of what they're doing. The working spouse often does feel cut off from his family. He's going to work so you can stay home. It's not his "job" to keep up with what's going on. Part of your job should be in helping him feel in the loop.
> He belittled our children's interests. He worried aloud about strangers thinking our 7.5 yo is "slow".It's not an unexpected response. Most people let problems go until they can't stand it any longer. Then they blow up. Little worries become huge.
> In short, my husband has not deschooled,If he turned the home upside down, say turned the home vegan or decided to take the kids to a Jewish temple, would it be up to you to get on board? Would you be at fault for not embracing it?
Wouldn't it be up to him to ease you in, to make the negative impact on you as little as possible? Wouldn't it be up to him to make sure you could still have your meat/pork until *you* decided -- if ever -- to fully embrace the beliefs with him and the kids?
> I realized during the long dark night I had alone after this conversation, that if he insists our children go to school, that will eliminate the last reason I have for being married to him.And if you're not married to him, he can still insist the kids go to school *and* will probably have a judges backing on that since they will tend to side with the more conservative parent.
And what if his new wife is good at drawing him into feeling like they're partners and she thinks a high pressure academic private school would be even better?
If you can't find a way to be *his* partner rather than trying to make him over into your mental clone on the subject of unschooling, then the above scenarios are very likely to happen. There are therapists who specialize in helping people respond in healthier ways to life. It might be called "relationship issues" or "life coaching". If you can't change on your own, it might be worth looking in to.
Joyce
K Pennell
I wonder, too, if there are still lots of options. Find out what he'd be comfortable with. Perhaps school isn't the only way. Maybe homeschooling in a slightly more traditional way would set his mind at ease. A reading/story time and a math worksheet or two each day. A documentary the kids are interested in now and then. Perhaps inviting him to "teach" his kids (share) something of interest to him would draw him into the process and also give him something to say to people (and a confidence that he has an answer to the questions).
--- On Fri, 10/5/12, Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
From: Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...>
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Re: Unsupportive partner - situation approaching crisis
To: [email protected]
Date: Friday, October 5, 2012, 6:57 PM
-=-Don't expect him to learn by reading - this is life, not school! Not everyone learns by reading books and articles ;) He needs to see real evidence of how unschooling works - and right now, he's not seeing it.-=-
Yeah...
If you're in or near Florida and can afford it, try to get in on the imminent conference there. Ben Lovejoy is persuasive. Broc Higgins and my guy, Keith Dodd, will be there, too.
http://floridaunschoolingconference.com
It's probably too late to even talk to him about this, and the sessions are on weekdays, but perhaps another conference, if you can find one soon.
But honestly, he let you do things your way for years. You forgot to make part of that to convince him that it was a great idea. So now your turn is over. Take that graciously. Seven years is a long time for your turn in the debate. :-) You seem to have failed to score.
If he has a chance, though, he might decide your way is a good way, given a couple of years. Maybe more, maybe less
Sandra
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------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
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Sandra Dodd
-=-It sounds like you are interested in an alternative lifestyle, have a
fantasy based on reading about unschooling(a big topic) and maybe should
think about focusing on living peacefully, building fun and lively
relationships? Forget rules, "unschooling bibles" and focus on what
principles your family needs for peaceful living.-=-
Yes, yes, yes.
Thanks for writing that, Marina.
And I jumped straight to school and marriage-salvage, but there's also unit-studies and marriage salvage. :-)
You could do projects or themes to have more to show your husband, for a while, and then gradually let that go if it works to bring more confidence in learning, and more peace to the family.
We were invited to a gingerbread house party. Maybe you could so something like that, and have another family or two over. I've seen it help dads for them to see more kids their own children's ages so they're comparing them to real other kids rather than a fantasy ideal imagined version of what the dad wishes they might be, or against imagined others.
http://sandradodd.com/gingerbreadhouse (the gingerbread house party, where we were making an adobe house, idealized local style. :-)
Sandra
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fantasy based on reading about unschooling(a big topic) and maybe should
think about focusing on living peacefully, building fun and lively
relationships? Forget rules, "unschooling bibles" and focus on what
principles your family needs for peaceful living.-=-
Yes, yes, yes.
Thanks for writing that, Marina.
And I jumped straight to school and marriage-salvage, but there's also unit-studies and marriage salvage. :-)
You could do projects or themes to have more to show your husband, for a while, and then gradually let that go if it works to bring more confidence in learning, and more peace to the family.
We were invited to a gingerbread house party. Maybe you could so something like that, and have another family or two over. I've seen it help dads for them to see more kids their own children's ages so they're comparing them to real other kids rather than a fantasy ideal imagined version of what the dad wishes they might be, or against imagined others.
http://sandradodd.com/gingerbreadhouse (the gingerbread house party, where we were making an adobe house, idealized local style. :-)
Sandra
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Sandra Dodd
> He complained that he didn't know what to say when his parents asked what our kids were doing.-=-You could create a blog of what they're doing. The working spouse often does feel cut off from his family. He's going to work so you can stay home. It's not his "job" to keep up with what's going on. Part of your job should be in helping him feel in the loop.-=-
My husband didn't write to his parents, beyond financial notes and sending or receiving checks. ALL the social obligation of our family fell to me. With Microsoft Word (before it belonged to Microsoft, even, when it was just "Word" on a mac), I started making letters to send them, with photos in them. Like blog posts, on paper.
Not all grandparents have the internet. If they do, you can keep a blog and send them an e-mail when you have a new blog post you particularly think they would enjoy.
As the mother of their grandchildren, as their daughter-in-law, I took it upon myself to write to them a few times a year and update them on what the kids were doing, and send photos of Kirby at karate, Marty ice skating, one of them at work (I sent photos of all of them at work at some point or other, various times, as they got older). I told them about outings and trips, sent photos of them out of town, in town.
Another benefit to that is that they have something to say when they talk to their son, other than "What are the kids doing?" They have a better starting place and can say "Kirby seems to be enjoying his karate school," or something solid, and then Keith didn't need to feel the burden of explaining.
His mom died just a few years ago, and his dad is 93 or 94 and doesn't care as much as he used to, and our kids are grown. I got through all that by offering information.
And about gifts, rather than trying to make my kids write thank-you notes, I would send a letter with a photo of the child using/wearing the gift, and tell a story about how he appreciated it, and what he said when he opened it, or something like that. As they got older, I asked them to help me decide what to write, and to pose for the photo, and they got that idea of acknowledging gifts.
http://sandradodd.com/choice
Like the kids' game "getting warm / getting cold," all the choices people make bring them nearer to or further from a good place to be. There are lots of good places to be, not just a single one, but frustration, demands and looming divorce aren't "a good place to be."
Sandra
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Pam Laricchia
<< My husband didn't write to his parents, beyond financial notes and sending or receiving checks. ALL the social obligation of our family fell to me.
With Microsoft Word (before it belonged to Microsoft, even, when it was just "Word" on a mac), I started making letters to send them, with photos in
them. Like blog posts, on paper. Not all grandparents have the internet. If they do, you can keep a blog and send them an e-mail when you have a new
blog post you particularly think they would enjoy. >>
Every year since we started unschooling I have written a double-sided Christmas newsletter with highlights of what we've all been up to that year,
complete with pictures, that goes out with our cards. This year will be the eleventh edition of The Laricchia Chronicle. :-)
The feedback has been great: some keep an special eye out for our card each year, others who are newer to the family want copies of earlier years so
they have a complete collection etc. And each fall when I start writing I LOVE looking back!
Pam L
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With Microsoft Word (before it belonged to Microsoft, even, when it was just "Word" on a mac), I started making letters to send them, with photos in
them. Like blog posts, on paper. Not all grandparents have the internet. If they do, you can keep a blog and send them an e-mail when you have a new
blog post you particularly think they would enjoy. >>
Every year since we started unschooling I have written a double-sided Christmas newsletter with highlights of what we've all been up to that year,
complete with pictures, that goes out with our cards. This year will be the eleventh edition of The Laricchia Chronicle. :-)
The feedback has been great: some keep an special eye out for our card each year, others who are newer to the family want copies of earlier years so
they have a complete collection etc. And each fall when I start writing I LOVE looking back!
Pam L
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Sandra Dodd
-=-=== I told him that I wished he would read some about unschooling (I was thinking of Sandra's site), and he said something like "just because I didn't read that guy's book", and I asked "What guy?" and he said "John Holt!" and in a voice dripping with contempt, started to describe John Taylor Gatto. ===
-=-Well at least he has done some reading.-=-
But it didn't save him. There was a test, and he failed it.
(Sorry, this e-mail was begun and lost on a busy desktop.)
It's good for unschooling moms to extend the courtesy and compassion to their partners as much as they can. Unsupportive partnering is probably a two-way impasse.
Sandra
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-=-Well at least he has done some reading.-=-
But it didn't save him. There was a test, and he failed it.
(Sorry, this e-mail was begun and lost on a busy desktop.)
It's good for unschooling moms to extend the courtesy and compassion to their partners as much as they can. Unsupportive partnering is probably a two-way impasse.
Sandra
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Sandra Dodd
Glenda wrote something that will apply to this. This is the middle of something longer, with a link to the whole thing, and other similar-in-a-way bits by others:
___________
I vividly remember there being a point several years into unschooling when I realized that so many of the things that had taken conscious effort in the beginning, had become second nature for me at some point along the way.
So my answer would be, be conscious of what you're saying and doing. Be more aware of your thoughts. If you act or react in a knee-jerk way that doesn't help relationships with your family, apologize to them and make a different, better choice in that moment.
I found it pretty easy to make the paradigm shift in my interactions with my son, but it was much harder to make that shift in my interactions with my husband. And that's still an ongoing change in our relationship, although it does come more naturally now—but it's still not as seamless as it is for me in my interactions with my son.
When I'm tired or hungry or don't feel well, I have to be more thoughtful about how I talk to my husband and how I think about him, because it's easy for me to slip into a negative place and to focus on the things he didn't do that I wish he had or the things he did that annoyed me.
One of the best things I've done for our marriage is to be more quiet when I'm tired/hungry/not feeling well. In those instances, I'm more prone to feel like snarking at my husband, or commenting on something he did / didn't do, or otherwise saying something that would be hurtful to him.
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http://sandradodd.com/change/
___________
I vividly remember there being a point several years into unschooling when I realized that so many of the things that had taken conscious effort in the beginning, had become second nature for me at some point along the way.
So my answer would be, be conscious of what you're saying and doing. Be more aware of your thoughts. If you act or react in a knee-jerk way that doesn't help relationships with your family, apologize to them and make a different, better choice in that moment.
I found it pretty easy to make the paradigm shift in my interactions with my son, but it was much harder to make that shift in my interactions with my husband. And that's still an ongoing change in our relationship, although it does come more naturally now—but it's still not as seamless as it is for me in my interactions with my son.
When I'm tired or hungry or don't feel well, I have to be more thoughtful about how I talk to my husband and how I think about him, because it's easy for me to slip into a negative place and to focus on the things he didn't do that I wish he had or the things he did that annoyed me.
One of the best things I've done for our marriage is to be more quiet when I'm tired/hungry/not feeling well. In those instances, I'm more prone to feel like snarking at my husband, or commenting on something he did / didn't do, or otherwise saying something that would be hurtful to him.
___________
http://sandradodd.com/change/