Too much play?
vicskibart
I have two daughters age 6 and (soon to be) 9. We have been on our home ed (autonomous) journey for 4 years now and just in the last year their focus is just soooo much on play play play... and more play then some play and more play (with a few altercations in between of course).
I have naturally been concerned about this at times, then read a little, then watched, then let it (mentally) 'go' in other words... *not* worry about it so much then read some more about it (Alan Thomas, Harriet Pattison and Holt). But to be honest my concerns still sit at the back of my mind poking my 'worry button' every now and then!
Play is of course vital, I know that, and very important to development and learning, emotional and otherwise but as I sit and amuse myself with organising their/our diaries, do a bit of knitting etc, tidy up, do the washing blah blah blah I feel 'out of it' lonely and I admit at times... Bored! (cringes in fear of response to that) :-) and feel like I'm 'waiting' for either one to come to me to as for help to get this or that, facilitate a need.
Is it because they see that I am 'busy' that they continue to play or do I continue to 'busy myself' because they are playing?
They will not allow me to play their game with them, fair enough ;-) so obviously they are content and happy to fire up their own imaginations and creativity in doing what they dig... which is play!
I have often asked either of them (while they are playing) if they'd like me to read to them (or do something else). Either being read to or 'doing something else' with both or either of them is something that we would have spoken about the day/s before we promised we would do. They appear so distracted with each other's needs I can't seem to pin one of them down without the other wanting 'in' too. Which of course I don't mind either. But as we all do at times need peace and relaxation, one or the other just won't allow it to happen with out a too doo or a hoo har!
The 'worries' I imagine do come from an external source. My Mum feels that they should be doing something 'constructive' everyday. Each time we talk she will say "have they learnt to tell the time yet? can they do their times tables? What is OD's grammar like? Can YD read/spell yet? Why don't you do this or that?" etc Aghhhhhhh!
I embrace anything they want to do if I'm able. If one comes away from the play situation they would usually go on their nintendo or draw or want to help with preparing meals. They have groups they attend and we as a home ed community have a big support network and often get together so they have lots of choices.
So... I guess my main need for discussion/help/advice really is "is there a ever such a thing as too much play?"
I have naturally been concerned about this at times, then read a little, then watched, then let it (mentally) 'go' in other words... *not* worry about it so much then read some more about it (Alan Thomas, Harriet Pattison and Holt). But to be honest my concerns still sit at the back of my mind poking my 'worry button' every now and then!
Play is of course vital, I know that, and very important to development and learning, emotional and otherwise but as I sit and amuse myself with organising their/our diaries, do a bit of knitting etc, tidy up, do the washing blah blah blah I feel 'out of it' lonely and I admit at times... Bored! (cringes in fear of response to that) :-) and feel like I'm 'waiting' for either one to come to me to as for help to get this or that, facilitate a need.
Is it because they see that I am 'busy' that they continue to play or do I continue to 'busy myself' because they are playing?
They will not allow me to play their game with them, fair enough ;-) so obviously they are content and happy to fire up their own imaginations and creativity in doing what they dig... which is play!
I have often asked either of them (while they are playing) if they'd like me to read to them (or do something else). Either being read to or 'doing something else' with both or either of them is something that we would have spoken about the day/s before we promised we would do. They appear so distracted with each other's needs I can't seem to pin one of them down without the other wanting 'in' too. Which of course I don't mind either. But as we all do at times need peace and relaxation, one or the other just won't allow it to happen with out a too doo or a hoo har!
The 'worries' I imagine do come from an external source. My Mum feels that they should be doing something 'constructive' everyday. Each time we talk she will say "have they learnt to tell the time yet? can they do their times tables? What is OD's grammar like? Can YD read/spell yet? Why don't you do this or that?" etc Aghhhhhhh!
I embrace anything they want to do if I'm able. If one comes away from the play situation they would usually go on their nintendo or draw or want to help with preparing meals. They have groups they attend and we as a home ed community have a big support network and often get together so they have lots of choices.
So... I guess my main need for discussion/help/advice really is "is there a ever such a thing as too much play?"
keetry
==Is it because they see that I am 'busy' that they continue to play or do I continue to 'busy myself' because they are playing?==
I have wondered about this sometimes. I'm always present and willing to do things with them so I think it's mainly me keeping myself busy because they are playing.
Alysia
I have wondered about this sometimes. I'm always present and willing to do things with them so I think it's mainly me keeping myself busy because they are playing.
Alysia
Stephanie
I am very interested in this as well. My children are a son 9 and two girls 7 and almost 4. They do the same thing. I often wonder if it is enough or if I need to step in and direct.
Are they learning enough, are they getting what they need?
I know that natural learning is happening because my 7 yr old taught herself to read at 5 and now is a fantastic reader. My son, who happens to be on the autistic spectrum, does not read. He has never been interested. I have this great fear in the back of my mind that I may not be doing enough to help him. We as a family are very laid back and enjoy our days just flowing from one interest to another. Sometimes together, sometimes at our own activities. The children rarely want to leave the house because they are engrossed in playing something.
Am I failing them because they do not know their times tables, etc.,or aren't being taught what other kids are learning?
Stephanie K
Sent from my iPhone
Are they learning enough, are they getting what they need?
I know that natural learning is happening because my 7 yr old taught herself to read at 5 and now is a fantastic reader. My son, who happens to be on the autistic spectrum, does not read. He has never been interested. I have this great fear in the back of my mind that I may not be doing enough to help him. We as a family are very laid back and enjoy our days just flowing from one interest to another. Sometimes together, sometimes at our own activities. The children rarely want to leave the house because they are engrossed in playing something.
Am I failing them because they do not know their times tables, etc.,or aren't being taught what other kids are learning?
Stephanie K
Sent from my iPhone
Vicki Dennis
I sometimes wonder if the "worry gene" is more prevalent in mothers than
others! Your children are happy. You "know" that learning is happening
because your 7 year old is a fantastic reader. You say your son has never
been interested in reading and does not read. I would expect that he will
have an interest at some point before adulthood (maybe as a late teen to
pass a driver license test?) and may surprise you with how fantastic a
reader he has become.
Your family enjoys days sometimes together, sometimes at own activities.
You are not failing them......or yourself. My opinion is that it would not
be kind or useful to disrupt a peaceful life where learning happens in
order to "teach" them...........Times tables or anything else!
vicki......who also worried about "late" reading or about not doing enough.
others! Your children are happy. You "know" that learning is happening
because your 7 year old is a fantastic reader. You say your son has never
been interested in reading and does not read. I would expect that he will
have an interest at some point before adulthood (maybe as a late teen to
pass a driver license test?) and may surprise you with how fantastic a
reader he has become.
Your family enjoys days sometimes together, sometimes at own activities.
You are not failing them......or yourself. My opinion is that it would not
be kind or useful to disrupt a peaceful life where learning happens in
order to "teach" them...........Times tables or anything else!
vicki......who also worried about "late" reading or about not doing enough.
On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 9:17 AM, Stephanie <ssminnow1@...> wrote:
> **
>
>
> I am very interested in this as well. My children are a son 9 and two
> girls 7 and almost 4. They do the same thing. I often wonder if it is
> enough or if I need to step in and direct.
> Are they learning enough, are they getting what they need?
> I know that natural learning is happening because my 7 yr old taught
> herself to read at 5 and now is a fantastic reader. My son, who happens to
> be on the autistic spectrum, does not read. He has never been interested. I
> have this great fear in the back of my mind that I may not be doing enough
> to help him. We as a family are very laid back and enjoy our days just
> flowing from one interest to another. Sometimes together, sometimes at our
> own activities. The children rarely want to leave the house because they
> are engrossed in playing something.
> Am I failing them because they do not know their times tables, etc.,or
> aren't being taught what other kids are learning?
> Stephanie K
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
<<<<I am very interested in this as well. My children are a son 9 and two girls 7 and almost 4. They do the same thing. I often wonder if it is enough or if I need to step in and direct. >>>>>
Like direct their play???
An unschooling parent should be doing more. More connecting, more strewing, more sharing life and joy, more discovering new things together, more learning together about what your kid;s interests are, more creating a learning environment, more opportunities to discover new things. But it not directing play, or directing learning, or directing kids to schoolish subjects. If a parent is not seeing learning and not aware of what the child is learning and doing maybe that parents needs more deschooling.
http://sandradodd.com/deschooling%c2%a0
http://sandradodd.com/learning%c2%a0
<<<""Are they learning enough, are they getting what they need?
I know that natural learning is happening because my 7 yr old taught herself to read at 5 and now is a fantastic reader. >>>
She learned to read. She did not teach herself. If you are still seeing it that way read this:
http://sandradodd.com/teaching/%c2%a0
<<<<<Am I failing them because they do not know their times tables, etc.,or aren't being taught what other kids are learning?>>>>>>
Well if not knowing the time tables is failing then I am a big failure! I do not know all of the time tables but I can figure them out in a few seconds ( the ones I never remember).
I have a Law Degree and I speak a few languages. I have worked with many different things over the years. I can also do algebra really well. I actually love doing it. Those big puzzles are fun! But I do not know all the time tables~!
It does sound like you need some more deschooling.
I was just talking to a dad that homeschools yesterday and he was telling me he knew all this chemistry stuff a few years ago but since he is not working with it anymore he forgot them all.
Do you really remember everything you were taught in school as a child? Do you think the children in school do?
Not a question to answer but to ponder.
If you think you are not doing enough, do more. Connect with them more, play with them more, share things that you find interesting! Offer more, bring more home ( since they like to be home), strew more.
|
Alex Polikowsky
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Like direct their play???
An unschooling parent should be doing more. More connecting, more strewing, more sharing life and joy, more discovering new things together, more learning together about what your kid;s interests are, more creating a learning environment, more opportunities to discover new things. But it not directing play, or directing learning, or directing kids to schoolish subjects. If a parent is not seeing learning and not aware of what the child is learning and doing maybe that parents needs more deschooling.
http://sandradodd.com/deschooling%c2%a0
http://sandradodd.com/learning%c2%a0
<<<""Are they learning enough, are they getting what they need?
I know that natural learning is happening because my 7 yr old taught herself to read at 5 and now is a fantastic reader. >>>
She learned to read. She did not teach herself. If you are still seeing it that way read this:
http://sandradodd.com/teaching/%c2%a0
<<<<<Am I failing them because they do not know their times tables, etc.,or aren't being taught what other kids are learning?>>>>>>
Well if not knowing the time tables is failing then I am a big failure! I do not know all of the time tables but I can figure them out in a few seconds ( the ones I never remember).
I have a Law Degree and I speak a few languages. I have worked with many different things over the years. I can also do algebra really well. I actually love doing it. Those big puzzles are fun! But I do not know all the time tables~!
It does sound like you need some more deschooling.
I was just talking to a dad that homeschools yesterday and he was telling me he knew all this chemistry stuff a few years ago but since he is not working with it anymore he forgot them all.
Do you really remember everything you were taught in school as a child? Do you think the children in school do?
Not a question to answer but to ponder.
If you think you are not doing enough, do more. Connect with them more, play with them more, share things that you find interesting! Offer more, bring more home ( since they like to be home), strew more.
|
Alex Polikowsky
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-We have been on our home ed (autonomous) journey for 4 years now-=-
I'm glad you're reading here.
I've been to the UK and hung out with home ed families three our of the past four years now, and I've learned some things.
I always suspected that "autonomous education" was NOT "the same as unschooling," though people have for a dozen years been shushing me with "We know all that, but we call it 'autonomous' here, not unschooling. In July, Mike Fortune-Wood said, after a long conference day, hanging out at the organizers' home, that autonomous ed is NOT the same as unschooling, and it came out of TCS--( the 'taking children seriously' writings).
So there are families in the UK who might have been having a much better, more positive experience with their families if they hadn't been protected from unschooling ideas all these years by people who put up a hand and said, "We know, we already do all that."
Well they didn't know, and they weren't doing all this.
While I don't think there is any such thing as too much play, I think there can be too small a range of play, and not enough input. And there can definitely be too little deschooling on the part of the parent.
Vicki, I don't know where you live, but there are things to see there, and don't wait for a home ed group to organize something. Go! Can you see this? It's a limited-time deal:
http://www.skdocks.co.uk/the-phoenicians/
I know about it because Adam Daniel went to see it with his dad, and his mom wrote to me about it.
http://www.semperey.com/phoenician-ship-600-bc-at-st-katherines-docks/
Even reading about it is pretty great, but seeing it, getting on it, would be great.
Three more weeks until the end of the month.
Instead of looking for something that would be interesting for your youngest girl, look for something that would be interesting for you, the mom, AND her. And plan it with enthusiasm because you want to go.
If they play together at home while you do things at home, you're missing learning from the world around you.
These were written when my kids were young, and both might be inspiring in this instance; I hope so.
http://sandradodd.com/eastyorkshire
Oh... the other I was thinking of isn't on the site. It's in Moving a Puddle, though. http://sandradodd.com/puddlebook which is easy to buy from the UK, from lulu, which produces books in the UK, too: http://lulu.com
This might help. Even if your kids don't want you to play with them, you could still be playful with information and ideas, during meals, in the car...
http://sandradodd.com/checklists
http://sandradodd.com/truck
Some of the things in your post made it seem that you're thinking there is playing, and then there is something schoolish, like being read aloud to. Or studying grammar, or "doing math."
There are lots of ideas on my site, and Joyce's, or linked from those, about living life full of input without it being schoolish.
Joyce's:
http://joyfullyrejoycing.com
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I'm glad you're reading here.
I've been to the UK and hung out with home ed families three our of the past four years now, and I've learned some things.
I always suspected that "autonomous education" was NOT "the same as unschooling," though people have for a dozen years been shushing me with "We know all that, but we call it 'autonomous' here, not unschooling. In July, Mike Fortune-Wood said, after a long conference day, hanging out at the organizers' home, that autonomous ed is NOT the same as unschooling, and it came out of TCS--( the 'taking children seriously' writings).
So there are families in the UK who might have been having a much better, more positive experience with their families if they hadn't been protected from unschooling ideas all these years by people who put up a hand and said, "We know, we already do all that."
Well they didn't know, and they weren't doing all this.
While I don't think there is any such thing as too much play, I think there can be too small a range of play, and not enough input. And there can definitely be too little deschooling on the part of the parent.
Vicki, I don't know where you live, but there are things to see there, and don't wait for a home ed group to organize something. Go! Can you see this? It's a limited-time deal:
http://www.skdocks.co.uk/the-phoenicians/
I know about it because Adam Daniel went to see it with his dad, and his mom wrote to me about it.
http://www.semperey.com/phoenician-ship-600-bc-at-st-katherines-docks/
Even reading about it is pretty great, but seeing it, getting on it, would be great.
Three more weeks until the end of the month.
Instead of looking for something that would be interesting for your youngest girl, look for something that would be interesting for you, the mom, AND her. And plan it with enthusiasm because you want to go.
If they play together at home while you do things at home, you're missing learning from the world around you.
These were written when my kids were young, and both might be inspiring in this instance; I hope so.
http://sandradodd.com/eastyorkshire
Oh... the other I was thinking of isn't on the site. It's in Moving a Puddle, though. http://sandradodd.com/puddlebook which is easy to buy from the UK, from lulu, which produces books in the UK, too: http://lulu.com
This might help. Even if your kids don't want you to play with them, you could still be playful with information and ideas, during meals, in the car...
http://sandradodd.com/checklists
http://sandradodd.com/truck
Some of the things in your post made it seem that you're thinking there is playing, and then there is something schoolish, like being read aloud to. Or studying grammar, or "doing math."
There are lots of ideas on my site, and Joyce's, or linked from those, about living life full of input without it being schoolish.
Joyce's:
http://joyfullyrejoycing.com
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
<<<<<<I sometimes wonder if the "worry gene" is more prevalent in mothers than
others! Your children are happy. You "know" that learning is happening
because your 7 year old is a fantastic reader. You say your son has never
been interested in reading and does not read. I would expect that he will
have an interest at some point before adulthood (maybe as a late teen to
pass a driver license test?) and may surprise you with how fantastic a
reader he has become.>>>>>>>>>>>
I think that it is the time of the year. In many countries this is back to school and I have been seeing many parents freaking out about not doing enough.
All the kids going back to school and the homeschoolers starting their homeschool "school year" and for unschoolers life just go on.
Well it does not change much for us but there are a bit more homeschooling get togethers to go to locally for us and other opportunities.
So I think that is what happens.
That and that we are not totally deschooled and we need some more deschooling. For some people they have not really figure what their
principles are and therefore still are not able to look at unschooling and their kids learning through those principles.
As you become clear of how learning happens and what principles and goals you value then all those doubts will become smaller and smaller.
Alex Polikowsky
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
others! Your children are happy. You "know" that learning is happening
because your 7 year old is a fantastic reader. You say your son has never
been interested in reading and does not read. I would expect that he will
have an interest at some point before adulthood (maybe as a late teen to
pass a driver license test?) and may surprise you with how fantastic a
reader he has become.>>>>>>>>>>>
I think that it is the time of the year. In many countries this is back to school and I have been seeing many parents freaking out about not doing enough.
All the kids going back to school and the homeschoolers starting their homeschool "school year" and for unschoolers life just go on.
Well it does not change much for us but there are a bit more homeschooling get togethers to go to locally for us and other opportunities.
So I think that is what happens.
That and that we are not totally deschooled and we need some more deschooling. For some people they have not really figure what their
principles are and therefore still are not able to look at unschooling and their kids learning through those principles.
As you become clear of how learning happens and what principles and goals you value then all those doubts will become smaller and smaller.
Alex Polikowsky
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
Julie said it was okay for me to quote her e-mail about the reproduction Phoenician ship and all. The ending is about achild turning down sweets, so it's bonus writing!
Julie Daniel wrote:
James and Adam went to see this ship on Monday while I was working.
http://www.semperey.com/phoenician-ship-600-bc-at-st-katherines-docks/
They met a couple of other home educating families there and one of the sailors who did the amazing voyage showed them round. Adam was fascinated with it all, especially with the toilet arrangements! He took lots of photos to show me because I was going to go along too but a client booked a workshop at short notice so I didn't get to see it for myself. Adam recounted it all in great detail to me though, which was lovely. I met them, after I had finished work and they had finished ship visiting and playing, and we went to Starbucks for a drink and a snack before we headed home. It still amazes me (it shouldn't really, not after all this time) that given a completely free choice of all of the things in the display cabinet - huge slices of cake, muffins, choc-chip-cookies, chocolate covered marshmallow thingies - that he will choose a tuna and cheese melt!! I don't say anything, I just buy it but it still makes me giggle inside. ("If I let him he would... blah, blah, blah"!!!)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Julie Daniel wrote:
James and Adam went to see this ship on Monday while I was working.
http://www.semperey.com/phoenician-ship-600-bc-at-st-katherines-docks/
They met a couple of other home educating families there and one of the sailors who did the amazing voyage showed them round. Adam was fascinated with it all, especially with the toilet arrangements! He took lots of photos to show me because I was going to go along too but a client booked a workshop at short notice so I didn't get to see it for myself. Adam recounted it all in great detail to me though, which was lovely. I met them, after I had finished work and they had finished ship visiting and playing, and we went to Starbucks for a drink and a snack before we headed home. It still amazes me (it shouldn't really, not after all this time) that given a completely free choice of all of the things in the display cabinet - huge slices of cake, muffins, choc-chip-cookies, chocolate covered marshmallow thingies - that he will choose a tuna and cheese melt!! I don't say anything, I just buy it but it still makes me giggle inside. ("If I let him he would... blah, blah, blah"!!!)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-I often wonder if it is enough or if I need to step in and direct. -=-
Those are not the only two options. When you think of the world in dichotomies and extremes, it limits your thinking.
-=-I know that natural learning is happening because my 7 yr old taught herself to read at 5 and now is a fantastic reader. -=-
Move one giant step closer to natural learning by not thinking about "teaching." How could she teach herself to read if she didn't know how? What your daughter did was to learn to read, naturally, in her own way. Any time you use the term "teach" or "taught" here, I hope someone is going to suggest this link: http://sandradodd.com/teaching/
-=-Am I failing them because they do not know their times tables, etc.,or aren't being taught what other kids are learning?-=-
You will be failing them and yourself and your family if you don't learn enough about unschooling to live confidently.
http://sandradodd.com/ifonly
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Those are not the only two options. When you think of the world in dichotomies and extremes, it limits your thinking.
-=-I know that natural learning is happening because my 7 yr old taught herself to read at 5 and now is a fantastic reader. -=-
Move one giant step closer to natural learning by not thinking about "teaching." How could she teach herself to read if she didn't know how? What your daughter did was to learn to read, naturally, in her own way. Any time you use the term "teach" or "taught" here, I hope someone is going to suggest this link: http://sandradodd.com/teaching/
-=-Am I failing them because they do not know their times tables, etc.,or aren't being taught what other kids are learning?-=-
You will be failing them and yourself and your family if you don't learn enough about unschooling to live confidently.
http://sandradodd.com/ifonly
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-I sometimes wonder if the "worry gene" is more prevalent in mothers than others! -=-
I think it is, but I also think that mothers can learn not to live there, fretting and whimpering.
Sandra
I think it is, but I also think that mothers can learn not to live there, fretting and whimpering.
Sandra
Sandra Dodd
-=- More connecting, more strewing, more sharing life and joy, more discovering new things together, more learning together about what your kid;s interests are, more creating a learning environment, more opportunities to discover new things. -=-
Yes. Discovering new things together. Not doing "second-grade" things, but doing real-world things that have to do with music or art, history, construction/architecture, animals, plants. Dance. Theatre. Nature. Humor.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yes. Discovering new things together. Not doing "second-grade" things, but doing real-world things that have to do with music or art, history, construction/architecture, animals, plants. Dance. Theatre. Nature. Humor.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Robert and Colleen
***"is there a ever such a thing as too much play?"***
***My Mum feels that they should be doing something 'constructive'
everyday.***
It might be useful to look for some info about "constructivist education"
for some thoughts as to how to respond to or re-frame those sort of thoughts
and ideas :-)
One of the ideas behind the theory of constructivist education is that
learners are responsible for their learning - not teachers/teaching. Adults
facilitate learning, in a Constructivist model - they don't teach. And lots
and lots of play in an environment rich with materials (toys, gadgets,
games, art supplies, etc.) is key. Because through play, children are
experimenting and exploring and thinking and evaluating. and therefore
learning :-)
In this vein, I think of one of my major roles as an unschooling parent as
making sure my child is surrounded with interesting people, items, and
experiences. I don't stand back and see what happens as he makes his own
way in his own world - I (and my husband) actively create a fun world for
him to play in and then I (and my husband) participate and play in it with
him :-).
So my son (who is now 9) plays with and around a variety of things that come
from his interests, my interests, my husband's interests, our friends'
interests, etc. I watch what he likes, what he asks, what he's curious or
passionate about, and I provide more of that or expansions of that - but I
don't provide or expand with attachment to the outcome. I think of myself
(borrowing a phrase this time from early childhood education) as being
attached to the process, not the product :-) Sometimes he joins me in
exploring something I think up, and sometimes (like right now) he's nearby
and we're chatting while doing completely different things - he's playing
Pokemon, I'm reading/writing email, we're listening to music (Silly Wizard,
currently), and we're chatting about what we did and didn't like about
Avatar: The Last Airbender and The Legend of Korra. we're a multi-tasking
sort of family, it seems ;-)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
***My Mum feels that they should be doing something 'constructive'
everyday.***
It might be useful to look for some info about "constructivist education"
for some thoughts as to how to respond to or re-frame those sort of thoughts
and ideas :-)
One of the ideas behind the theory of constructivist education is that
learners are responsible for their learning - not teachers/teaching. Adults
facilitate learning, in a Constructivist model - they don't teach. And lots
and lots of play in an environment rich with materials (toys, gadgets,
games, art supplies, etc.) is key. Because through play, children are
experimenting and exploring and thinking and evaluating. and therefore
learning :-)
In this vein, I think of one of my major roles as an unschooling parent as
making sure my child is surrounded with interesting people, items, and
experiences. I don't stand back and see what happens as he makes his own
way in his own world - I (and my husband) actively create a fun world for
him to play in and then I (and my husband) participate and play in it with
him :-).
So my son (who is now 9) plays with and around a variety of things that come
from his interests, my interests, my husband's interests, our friends'
interests, etc. I watch what he likes, what he asks, what he's curious or
passionate about, and I provide more of that or expansions of that - but I
don't provide or expand with attachment to the outcome. I think of myself
(borrowing a phrase this time from early childhood education) as being
attached to the process, not the product :-) Sometimes he joins me in
exploring something I think up, and sometimes (like right now) he's nearby
and we're chatting while doing completely different things - he's playing
Pokemon, I'm reading/writing email, we're listening to music (Silly Wizard,
currently), and we're chatting about what we did and didn't like about
Avatar: The Last Airbender and The Legend of Korra. we're a multi-tasking
sort of family, it seems ;-)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pam Sorooshian
On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 7:17 AM, Stephanie <ssminnow1@...> wrote:
"nearby" and offer stuff. Fix nice little plates of food that they'll
enjoy. Notice what they are playing and offer dressups that they might
like. Offer to take them to an interesting park to play whatever it is they
are playing. Add "props" to their play. Add supplies/materials for them to
use.
Perhaps you are thinking you must be more directly involved, but try
thinking of yourself as the curator of their environment. The museum
curator tries to set up the environment to suit visitors' interests and
expand them a bit, too.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> I often wonder if it is enough or if I need to step in and direct.Yikes. Not direct. But you can contribute - don't step "in" but step
"nearby" and offer stuff. Fix nice little plates of food that they'll
enjoy. Notice what they are playing and offer dressups that they might
like. Offer to take them to an interesting park to play whatever it is they
are playing. Add "props" to their play. Add supplies/materials for them to
use.
Perhaps you are thinking you must be more directly involved, but try
thinking of yourself as the curator of their environment. The museum
curator tries to set up the environment to suit visitors' interests and
expand them a bit, too.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Stephanie Kleiner
<<<I think that it is the time of the year. In many countries this is back to school and I have been seeing many parents freaking out about not doing enough>>>
I think that this is exactly it. I would say that 90% of the time I am comfortable with the way that things are going. But when this time of year rolls around and everyone is constantly asking my kids if they are "ready for school" or "what grade are you in" and there is a constant inflow of schoolish ideas, I start to doubt myself and question if I am doing enough.
<<<All the kids going back to school and the homeschoolers starting their homeschool "school year" and for unschoolers life just go on>>>
That is when the panic sets in. Our life just continues as always and everybody else it seems is rushing aroung getting ready for school. I can't help but feel as if I should be doing something too.
<<< that we are not totally deschooled and we need some more deschooling>>>
I thought that since my youngest 3 had never been to school, I was deschooled, but it seems as I still have work to do. I also need to learn to listen to myself and tune out the rest.
Stephanie K
________________________________
From: BRIAN POLIKOWSKY <polykowholsteins@...>
To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 11:46 AM
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Re: Too much play?
<<<<<<I sometimes wonder if the "worry gene" is more prevalent in mothers than
others! Your children are happy. You "know" that learning is happening
because your 7 year old is a fantastic reader. You say your son has never
been interested in reading and does not read. I would expect that he will
have an interest at some point before adulthood (maybe as a late teen to
pass a driver license test?) and may surprise you with how fantastic a
reader he has become.>>>>>>>>>>>
I think that it is the time of the year. In many countries this is back to school and I have been seeing many parents freaking out about not doing enough.
All the kids going back to school and the homeschoolers starting their homeschool "school year" and for unschoolers life just go on.
Well it does not change much for us but there are a bit more homeschooling get togethers to go to locally for us and other opportunities.
So I think that is what happens.
That and that we are not totally deschooled and we need some more deschooling. For some people they have not really figure what their
principles are and therefore still are not able to look at unschooling and their kids learning through those principles.
As you become clear of how learning happens and what principles and goals you value then all those doubts will become smaller and smaller.
Alex Polikowsky
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I think that this is exactly it. I would say that 90% of the time I am comfortable with the way that things are going. But when this time of year rolls around and everyone is constantly asking my kids if they are "ready for school" or "what grade are you in" and there is a constant inflow of schoolish ideas, I start to doubt myself and question if I am doing enough.
<<<All the kids going back to school and the homeschoolers starting their homeschool "school year" and for unschoolers life just go on>>>
That is when the panic sets in. Our life just continues as always and everybody else it seems is rushing aroung getting ready for school. I can't help but feel as if I should be doing something too.
<<< that we are not totally deschooled and we need some more deschooling>>>
I thought that since my youngest 3 had never been to school, I was deschooled, but it seems as I still have work to do. I also need to learn to listen to myself and tune out the rest.
Stephanie K
________________________________
From: BRIAN POLIKOWSKY <polykowholsteins@...>
To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 11:46 AM
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Re: Too much play?
<<<<<<I sometimes wonder if the "worry gene" is more prevalent in mothers than
others! Your children are happy. You "know" that learning is happening
because your 7 year old is a fantastic reader. You say your son has never
been interested in reading and does not read. I would expect that he will
have an interest at some point before adulthood (maybe as a late teen to
pass a driver license test?) and may surprise you with how fantastic a
reader he has become.>>>>>>>>>>>
I think that it is the time of the year. In many countries this is back to school and I have been seeing many parents freaking out about not doing enough.
All the kids going back to school and the homeschoolers starting their homeschool "school year" and for unschoolers life just go on.
Well it does not change much for us but there are a bit more homeschooling get togethers to go to locally for us and other opportunities.
So I think that is what happens.
That and that we are not totally deschooled and we need some more deschooling. For some people they have not really figure what their
principles are and therefore still are not able to look at unschooling and their kids learning through those principles.
As you become clear of how learning happens and what principles and goals you value then all those doubts will become smaller and smaller.
Alex Polikowsky
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Stephanie Kleiner
<<< She learned to read. She did not teach herself. If you are still seeing it that way read this:
http://sandradodd.com/teaching/ >>>
Thanks Sandra, great post~ I do see it as her learning, just did not state it correctly.
Stephanie K
________________________________
From: BRIAN POLIKOWSKY <polykowholsteins@...>
To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 11:38 AM
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Re: Too much play?
<<<<I am very interested in this as well. My children are a son 9 and two girls 7 and almost 4. They do the same thing. I often wonder if it is enough or if I need to step in and direct. >>>>>
Like direct their play???
An unschooling parent should be doing more. More connecting, more strewing, more sharing life and joy, more discovering new things together, more learning together about what your kid;s interests are, more creating a learning environment, more opportunities to discover new things. But it not directing play, or directing learning, or directing kids to schoolish subjects. If a parent is not seeing learning and not aware of what the child is learning and doing maybe that parents needs more deschooling.
http://sandradodd.com/deschooling%c2%a0
http://sandradodd.com/learning%c2%a0
<<<""Are they learning enough, are they getting what they need?
I know that natural learning is happening because my 7 yr old taught herself to read at 5 and now is a fantastic reader. >>>
She learned to read. She did not teach herself. If you are still seeing it that way read this:
http://sandradodd.com/teaching/%c2%a0
<<<<<Am I failing them because they do not know their times tables, etc.,or aren't being taught what other kids are learning?>>>>>>
Well if not knowing the time tables is failing then I am a big failure! I do not know all of the time tables but I can figure them out in a few seconds ( the ones I never remember).
I have a Law Degree and I speak a few languages. I have worked with many different things over the years. I can also do algebra really well. I actually love doing it. Those big puzzles are fun! But I do not know all the time tables~!
It does sound like you need some more deschooling.
I was just talking to a dad that homeschools yesterday and he was telling me he knew all this chemistry stuff a few years ago but since he is not working with it anymore he forgot them all.
Do you really remember everything you were taught in school as a child? Do you think the children in school do?
Not a question to answer but to ponder.
If you think you are not doing enough, do more. Connect with them more, play with them more, share things that you find interesting! Offer more, bring more home ( since they like to be home), strew more.
|
Alex Polikowsky
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
http://sandradodd.com/teaching/ >>>
Thanks Sandra, great post~ I do see it as her learning, just did not state it correctly.
Stephanie K
________________________________
From: BRIAN POLIKOWSKY <polykowholsteins@...>
To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 11:38 AM
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Re: Too much play?
<<<<I am very interested in this as well. My children are a son 9 and two girls 7 and almost 4. They do the same thing. I often wonder if it is enough or if I need to step in and direct. >>>>>
Like direct their play???
An unschooling parent should be doing more. More connecting, more strewing, more sharing life and joy, more discovering new things together, more learning together about what your kid;s interests are, more creating a learning environment, more opportunities to discover new things. But it not directing play, or directing learning, or directing kids to schoolish subjects. If a parent is not seeing learning and not aware of what the child is learning and doing maybe that parents needs more deschooling.
http://sandradodd.com/deschooling%c2%a0
http://sandradodd.com/learning%c2%a0
<<<""Are they learning enough, are they getting what they need?
I know that natural learning is happening because my 7 yr old taught herself to read at 5 and now is a fantastic reader. >>>
She learned to read. She did not teach herself. If you are still seeing it that way read this:
http://sandradodd.com/teaching/%c2%a0
<<<<<Am I failing them because they do not know their times tables, etc.,or aren't being taught what other kids are learning?>>>>>>
Well if not knowing the time tables is failing then I am a big failure! I do not know all of the time tables but I can figure them out in a few seconds ( the ones I never remember).
I have a Law Degree and I speak a few languages. I have worked with many different things over the years. I can also do algebra really well. I actually love doing it. Those big puzzles are fun! But I do not know all the time tables~!
It does sound like you need some more deschooling.
I was just talking to a dad that homeschools yesterday and he was telling me he knew all this chemistry stuff a few years ago but since he is not working with it anymore he forgot them all.
Do you really remember everything you were taught in school as a child? Do you think the children in school do?
Not a question to answer but to ponder.
If you think you are not doing enough, do more. Connect with them more, play with them more, share things that you find interesting! Offer more, bring more home ( since they like to be home), strew more.
|
Alex Polikowsky
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
otherstar
>>>>>I have two daughters age 6 and (soon to be) 9. We have been on our homeYou have described our lives. It’s not just the kids that like to play,
>>>>>ed (autonomous) journey for 4 years now and just in the last year their
>>>>>focus is just soooo much on play play play... and more play then some
>>>>>play and more play (with a few altercations in between of course).<<<<<
play, play. My husband and I like to play, play, play too. Sometimes the
kids join us and sometimes they don’t. My husband plays the guitar and is
learning to play the banjo. I have spent years looking for a instrument that
I could play and recently found the washboard. It’s lots of fun. We all like
to do gaming on the computer. There are times when you can find my husband
and I on our Minecraft server playing without the kids. If either of us
build something cool, we invite the kids to come check it out. If the kids
are doing something cool, they are prone to invite us to come check it out.
In addition to the play, there is a spirit of curiosity. My husband and I
are very curious people. We make lots of observations. We ask lots of
questions and we do lots of research and sharing with each other. Sometimes
the kids participate and sometimes they don’t. Even when they aren’t
participating in our conversations, they are asking questions and making
observations of their own. Yesterday, we found a worm on the sidewalk and
the girls played with it and made observations about it and asked questions
about it. It was all in the context of play. Rather than asking if they are
playing too much, maybe you should ask yourself if you are playing enough.
: –)
This morning I was sitting in the bedroom helping my youngest find a shirt
and her big sister came in and was sitting on the slide to their platform
bed. She was telling me about a video she had been watching and the world
doppleganger came up. I had a vague idea of what it meant but wasn’t sure so
I asked her and she explained it to me. She thought it was so cool that she
knew something I didn’t. I am sharing that because it all came from playing
and doing the things that she enjoys. I didn’t watch the video with her but
she shared with me about it because we share stuff with each other. Sharing
is part of our lives.
Something else to think about is how approachable you are. If the kids think
that you are busy or will get mad for interrupting, then they are not as
likely to share with you. My girls know they can ask me questions or share
with me no matter what I am doing.
>>>>>Play is of course vital, I know that, and very important to developmentSounds like you need to play more! Don’t amuse yourself, find something to
>>>>>and learning, emotional and otherwise but as I sit and amuse myself
>>>>>with organising their/our diaries, do a bit of knitting etc, tidy up,
>>>>>do the washing blah blah blah I feel 'out of it' lonely and I admit at
>>>>>times... Bored! (cringes in fear of response to that) :-) and feel like
>>>>>I'm 'waiting' for either one to come to me to as for help to get this
>>>>>or that, facilitate a need.<<<<<
do that brings you joy and happiness. Don’t wait for them to come to you. Do
something fun. If you run across something cool, share it with them. Go
watch what they are doing. You don’t have to play with them but you can sit
and watch. I will do that periodically. I will walk over to one of the girls
and stroke her hair and say, “how’s it going?” or “Just wanted to say I love
you.” Then, I go about my business. Sometimes, they will open up and tell me
all about what they are doing and ask me for input.
Is it because they see that I am 'busy' that they continue to play or do I
continue to 'busy myself' because they are playing?
>>>>>They will not allow me to play their game with them, fair enough ;-) soGive them more stuff to be imaginative with. I found a store that had some
>>>>>obviously they are content and happy to fire up their own imaginations
>>>>>and creativity in doing what they dig... which is play!<<<<
little puppets for a dollar so I stocked up on puppets. If they like dolls,
get them dolls. Offer to make new sew clothes for the dolls using old socks
that don’t have mates. There are tons of things that can be done to feed the
imagination without directing the play.
>>>>>>>The 'worries' I imagine do come from an external source. My Mum feelsI tend to find something that the girls can do that I can share with family
>>>>>>>that they should be doing something 'constructive' everyday. Each
>>>>>>>time we talk she will say "have they learnt to tell the time yet? can
>>>>>>>they do their times tables? What is OD's grammar like? Can YD
>>>>>>>read/spell yet? Why don't you do this or that?" etc Aghhhhhhh!<<<<<<
members that question. A simple answer like “We are working on it.” works
for some people. They don’t need to know that my idea of working on it is
playing and having fun. : –)
My niece (who is now 20) is the one that helped me find my confidence. She
has been hanging out with us since she was a baby and I helped her mom
homeschool her for a while. We were talking one day and she made the remark
that she can’t come to my house without learning something because we always
have cool toys and are always sharing interesting/weird/different stuff. She
never knows what kind of food, toy, book, instrument, computer game, etc.
she will see when she comes over. We have created a nice little unschooling
nest that all visitors seem to enjoy. Sandra has a link on her page about
building an unschooling nest: http://sandradodd.com/nest
Connie
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Robin Bentley
> But when this time of year rolls around and everyone is constantlyThe beginning of September (or whenever the school year begins where
> asking my kids if they are "ready for school" or "what grade are you
> in" and there is a constant inflow of schoolish ideas, I start to
> doubt myself and question if I am doing enough.
>
> That is when the panic sets in. Our life just continues as always
> and everybody else it seems is rushing aroung getting ready for
> school. I can't help but feel as if I should be doing something too.
you are) is a great time to take a vacation! Get away from the
"getting ready for school-itis" that's going on. Get your kids away
from the questions (who is asking this anyway?) and protect them from
that kind of thing.
If you can't take a holiday, go do something fun! Make whatever you do
*your* yearly ritual. You can focus on seeing your kids' joy and
learning, instead of your worries.
Robin B.
Sandra Dodd
-=-<<< that we are not totally deschooled and we need some more deschooling>>>
I thought that since my youngest 3 had never been to school, I was deschooled, but it seems as I still have work to do. I also need to learn to listen to myself and tune out the rest.
-=-
You had older kids who did go to school?
Even if your ONLY child never went to school, that would only mean that *she* didn't need to deschool. You still went to school for 10 or 20 years, I'm guessing. There's much to undo, but it doesn't have to seem like work.
-=-I also need to learn to listen to myself and tune out the rest. --=
If you're planning to tune all of us out, you might as well drop off the list.
If you plan to learn to listen only to yourself, but you're not sure what deschooling is, that could be a problem. :-)
-=-Thanks Sandra, great post~ I do see it as her learning, just did not state it correctly.-=-
You stated it just exactly as you thought it.
We don't care what you think or do as far as all of OUR children are concerned. My youngest is 20 years old, and didn't go to school. I'm not here to learn more about unschooling. I'm here to help people like you.
And what I know about writing and thought and belief is that no one made you come to this list.
No judge has ever once sentenced someone to join Always Learning and participate.
No one made you write a post. You chose to do that.
No one told you what to write. You got to decide.
No one said "don't proofread; just hit 'send,' QUICKLY!" You hit send when you wanted to.
But the guidelines do request that each person post clearly and that each post be proofread.
So...
I don't think you should backpedal on having written that she taught herself to read. You believed it, you thought the phrase, and you wrote it. Then you sent it. It's yours. You might want to change your point of view, but you shouldn't try to deny your point of view. That won't do you any good at all.
I have two pages to share with you as a follow-up on what's above.
Often people think they have deschooled, and then another layer reveals itself, and they work through that. Here are some of those stories:
http://sandradodd.com/gettingit
And *if* you really didn't mean "taught herself," then you were writing in other people's words, writing in lumps, in cliches.
Trying to avoid that can clarify thought.
http://sandradodd.com/phrases
Clarifying thought, it turns, out, is what unschooling is all about, for the parents. When the parents are clear, then learning can flow around them.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I thought that since my youngest 3 had never been to school, I was deschooled, but it seems as I still have work to do. I also need to learn to listen to myself and tune out the rest.
-=-
You had older kids who did go to school?
Even if your ONLY child never went to school, that would only mean that *she* didn't need to deschool. You still went to school for 10 or 20 years, I'm guessing. There's much to undo, but it doesn't have to seem like work.
-=-I also need to learn to listen to myself and tune out the rest. --=
If you're planning to tune all of us out, you might as well drop off the list.
If you plan to learn to listen only to yourself, but you're not sure what deschooling is, that could be a problem. :-)
-=-Thanks Sandra, great post~ I do see it as her learning, just did not state it correctly.-=-
You stated it just exactly as you thought it.
We don't care what you think or do as far as all of OUR children are concerned. My youngest is 20 years old, and didn't go to school. I'm not here to learn more about unschooling. I'm here to help people like you.
And what I know about writing and thought and belief is that no one made you come to this list.
No judge has ever once sentenced someone to join Always Learning and participate.
No one made you write a post. You chose to do that.
No one told you what to write. You got to decide.
No one said "don't proofread; just hit 'send,' QUICKLY!" You hit send when you wanted to.
But the guidelines do request that each person post clearly and that each post be proofread.
So...
I don't think you should backpedal on having written that she taught herself to read. You believed it, you thought the phrase, and you wrote it. Then you sent it. It's yours. You might want to change your point of view, but you shouldn't try to deny your point of view. That won't do you any good at all.
I have two pages to share with you as a follow-up on what's above.
Often people think they have deschooled, and then another layer reveals itself, and they work through that. Here are some of those stories:
http://sandradodd.com/gettingit
And *if* you really didn't mean "taught herself," then you were writing in other people's words, writing in lumps, in cliches.
Trying to avoid that can clarify thought.
http://sandradodd.com/phrases
Clarifying thought, it turns, out, is what unschooling is all about, for the parents. When the parents are clear, then learning can flow around them.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Stephanie Kleiner
<<You had older kids who did go to school?>>
I do have 1 daughter 21, who went through the public school system.
<<If you're planning to tune all of us out, you might as well drop off the list.>>
I am here because I believe that this list has valuable information that will help me. I want to trust my instincts about my children and not get caught up in the schoolish ideas.
<<If you plan to learn to listen only to yourself, but you're not sure what deschooling is, that could be a problem. :-)>>
I thought that I knew. But I am still learning and working through layers.
Stephanie K
________________________________
From: Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 8:20 PM
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Too much play?
-=-<<< that we are not totally deschooled and we need some more deschooling>>>
I thought that since my youngest 3 had never been to school, I was deschooled, but it seems as I still have work to do. I also need to learn to listen to myself and tune out the rest.
-=-
You had older kids who did go to school?
Even if your ONLY child never went to school, that would only mean that *she* didn't need to deschool. You still went to school for 10 or 20 years, I'm guessing. There's much to undo, but it doesn't have to seem like work.
-=-I also need to learn to listen to myself and tune out the rest. --=
If you're planning to tune all of us out, you might as well drop off the list.
If you plan to learn to listen only to yourself, but you're not sure what deschooling is, that could be a problem. :-)
-=-Thanks Sandra, great post~ I do see it as her learning, just did not state it correctly.-=-
You stated it just exactly as you thought it.
We don't care what you think or do as far as all of OUR children are concerned. My youngest is 20 years old, and didn't go to school. I'm not here to learn more about unschooling. I'm here to help people like you.
And what I know about writing and thought and belief is that no one made you come to this list.
No judge has ever once sentenced someone to join Always Learning and participate.
No one made you write a post. You chose to do that.
No one told you what to write. You got to decide.
No one said "don't proofread; just hit 'send,' QUICKLY!" You hit send when you wanted to.
But the guidelines do request that each person post clearly and that each post be proofread.
So...
I don't think you should backpedal on having written that she taught herself to read. You believed it, you thought the phrase, and you wrote it. Then you sent it. It's yours. You might want to change your point of view, but you shouldn't try to deny your point of view. That won't do you any good at all.
I have two pages to share with you as a follow-up on what's above.
Often people think they have deschooled, and then another layer reveals itself, and they work through that. Here are some of those stories:
http://sandradodd.com/gettingit
And *if* you really didn't mean "taught herself," then you were writing in other people's words, writing in lumps, in cliches.
Trying to avoid that can clarify thought.
http://sandradodd.com/phrases
Clarifying thought, it turns, out, is what unschooling is all about, for the parents. When the parents are clear, then learning can flow around them.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I do have 1 daughter 21, who went through the public school system.
<<If you're planning to tune all of us out, you might as well drop off the list.>>
I am here because I believe that this list has valuable information that will help me. I want to trust my instincts about my children and not get caught up in the schoolish ideas.
<<If you plan to learn to listen only to yourself, but you're not sure what deschooling is, that could be a problem. :-)>>
I thought that I knew. But I am still learning and working through layers.
Stephanie K
________________________________
From: Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 8:20 PM
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Too much play?
-=-<<< that we are not totally deschooled and we need some more deschooling>>>
I thought that since my youngest 3 had never been to school, I was deschooled, but it seems as I still have work to do. I also need to learn to listen to myself and tune out the rest.
-=-
You had older kids who did go to school?
Even if your ONLY child never went to school, that would only mean that *she* didn't need to deschool. You still went to school for 10 or 20 years, I'm guessing. There's much to undo, but it doesn't have to seem like work.
-=-I also need to learn to listen to myself and tune out the rest. --=
If you're planning to tune all of us out, you might as well drop off the list.
If you plan to learn to listen only to yourself, but you're not sure what deschooling is, that could be a problem. :-)
-=-Thanks Sandra, great post~ I do see it as her learning, just did not state it correctly.-=-
You stated it just exactly as you thought it.
We don't care what you think or do as far as all of OUR children are concerned. My youngest is 20 years old, and didn't go to school. I'm not here to learn more about unschooling. I'm here to help people like you.
And what I know about writing and thought and belief is that no one made you come to this list.
No judge has ever once sentenced someone to join Always Learning and participate.
No one made you write a post. You chose to do that.
No one told you what to write. You got to decide.
No one said "don't proofread; just hit 'send,' QUICKLY!" You hit send when you wanted to.
But the guidelines do request that each person post clearly and that each post be proofread.
So...
I don't think you should backpedal on having written that she taught herself to read. You believed it, you thought the phrase, and you wrote it. Then you sent it. It's yours. You might want to change your point of view, but you shouldn't try to deny your point of view. That won't do you any good at all.
I have two pages to share with you as a follow-up on what's above.
Often people think they have deschooled, and then another layer reveals itself, and they work through that. Here are some of those stories:
http://sandradodd.com/gettingit
And *if* you really didn't mean "taught herself," then you were writing in other people's words, writing in lumps, in cliches.
Trying to avoid that can clarify thought.
http://sandradodd.com/phrases
Clarifying thought, it turns, out, is what unschooling is all about, for the parents. When the parents are clear, then learning can flow around them.
Sandra
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Sandra Dodd
-=-<<If you're planning to tune all of us out, you might as well drop off the list.>>
I am here because I believe that this list has valuable information that will help me. I want to trust my instincts about my children and not get caught up in the schoolish ideas.-=-
Again, though, you wrote something that you seem not to have seen or read. You're missing my point.
Please read a little, try a little, wait a while and watch.
Sandra
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I am here because I believe that this list has valuable information that will help me. I want to trust my instincts about my children and not get caught up in the schoolish ideas.-=-
Again, though, you wrote something that you seem not to have seen or read. You're missing my point.
Please read a little, try a little, wait a while and watch.
Sandra
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Sandra Dodd
-=-She was telling me about a video she had been watching and the world
doppleganger came up. -=-
A parallel world!? :-)
I know you meant "the word 'doppleganger'" but it's a good typo!
Another trail to follow.
Like the Simpsons' evil twin town to Springfield, Shelbyville! :-)
Sandra
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doppleganger came up. -=-
A parallel world!? :-)
I know you meant "the word 'doppleganger'" but it's a good typo!
Another trail to follow.
Like the Simpsons' evil twin town to Springfield, Shelbyville! :-)
Sandra
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Sandra Dodd
-=-My niece (who is now 20) is the one that helped me find my confidence. She
has been hanging out with us since she was a baby and I helped her mom
homeschool her for a while. We were talking one day and she made the remark
that she can�t come to my house without learning something because we always
have cool toys and are always sharing interesting/weird/different stuff. She
never knows what kind of food, toy, book, instrument, computer game, etc.
she will see when she comes over. We have created a nice little unschooling
nest that all visitors seem to enjoy. Sandra has a link on her page about
building an unschooling nest: http://sandradodd.com/nest-=-
Yeah, and now I'm going to go add your description of your nest. :-)
Sandra
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has been hanging out with us since she was a baby and I helped her mom
homeschool her for a while. We were talking one day and she made the remark
that she can�t come to my house without learning something because we always
have cool toys and are always sharing interesting/weird/different stuff. She
never knows what kind of food, toy, book, instrument, computer game, etc.
she will see when she comes over. We have created a nice little unschooling
nest that all visitors seem to enjoy. Sandra has a link on her page about
building an unschooling nest: http://sandradodd.com/nest-=-
Yeah, and now I'm going to go add your description of your nest. :-)
Sandra
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keetry
== The beginning of September (or whenever the school year begins where you are) is a great time to take a vacation!==
i'm spending the day today packing for a mini vacation we're going on for the next 4 days. i hadn't thought of the timing for that but it's perfect. even all of our other homeschool friends have started school again this past week or so so it's been interesting making the adjustment ourselves. my 5 year old asks me all day long if his friends are home yet. they've started kindergarten so it's the first time he's experienced not having friends to play with in the middle of the day.
== Get your kids away from the questions (who is asking this anyway?)==
For us, it's complete strangers when we are out and about, and the dentist (even though we've told him a gazillion times that we homeschool). The most recent is my 8 year old's baseball coaches. They pull the school card a lot. "If you don't do your homework, your parents won't let you play." "If you don't do well in school, your parents won't let you play." My husband and I have been waiting for our son to speak and say he's homeschooled so he doesn't have to worry about that but he hasn't yet.
One poor kid did come to practice last night in tears. His dad made him tell everyone that he hadn't done well in school so he had to let the team down by not being allowed to play anymore. I didn't see it happen. My son told me about it after we got home. It really disturbed him.
Alysia
i'm spending the day today packing for a mini vacation we're going on for the next 4 days. i hadn't thought of the timing for that but it's perfect. even all of our other homeschool friends have started school again this past week or so so it's been interesting making the adjustment ourselves. my 5 year old asks me all day long if his friends are home yet. they've started kindergarten so it's the first time he's experienced not having friends to play with in the middle of the day.
== Get your kids away from the questions (who is asking this anyway?)==
For us, it's complete strangers when we are out and about, and the dentist (even though we've told him a gazillion times that we homeschool). The most recent is my 8 year old's baseball coaches. They pull the school card a lot. "If you don't do your homework, your parents won't let you play." "If you don't do well in school, your parents won't let you play." My husband and I have been waiting for our son to speak and say he's homeschooled so he doesn't have to worry about that but he hasn't yet.
One poor kid did come to practice last night in tears. His dad made him tell everyone that he hadn't done well in school so he had to let the team down by not being allowed to play anymore. I didn't see it happen. My son told me about it after we got home. It really disturbed him.
Alysia
Robin Bentley
> The most recent is my 8 year old's baseball coaches. They pull theMaybe *you* should say something, not leave it up to your son.
> school card a lot. "If you don't do your homework, your parents
> won't let you play." "If you don't do well in school, your parents
> won't let you play." My husband and I have been waiting for our son
> to speak and say he's homeschooled so he doesn't have to worry about
> that but he hasn't yet.
Using threats is pretty demotivating for kids, and adults do it to
them in sports leagues all the time. Are the coaches dads or are they
honest-to-goodness professionals? They ought to know better, either way.
>Is there some tacit or expressed agreement amongst parents that this
> One poor kid did come to practice last night in tears. His dad made
> him tell everyone that he hadn't done well in school so he had to
> let the team down by not being allowed to play anymore. I didn't see
> it happen. My son told me about it after we got home. It really
> disturbed him.
will happen? "Don't do well in school = can't play baseball"?
Is your son willing to put up with this, in spite of the bullying?
Because that's what it is. You could stand up for all the kids, and
set a good example for your child, by suggesting better ways to
motivate the players.
Robin B.
Pam Sorooshian
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> Your son is probably just ignoring it all since it doesn't apply to him.
> My daughter played a lot of sports and this was very common. Even in her
> karate studio run by a wonderful homeschooling mom, there was recognition
> for good school grades and reminders about doing homework, etc. Rosie just
> felt glad it wasn't an issue for her and let it slide.
>
> > The most recent is my 8 year old's baseball coaches. They pull the
> > school card a lot. "If you don't do your homework, your parents
> > won't let you play." "If you don't do well in school, your parents
> > won't let you play." My husband and I have been waiting for our son
> > to speak and say he's homeschooled so he doesn't have to worry about
> > that but he hasn't yet.
>
Robin Bentley
>> Your son is probably just ignoring it all since it doesn't apply toYes, maybe. He was upset about it, but maybe he was just upset that
>> him.
the other kid wasn't allowed to play.
>> My daughter played a lot of sports and this was very common. EvenIf it's not an issue, it's not an issue!
>> in her
>> karate studio run by a wonderful homeschooling mom, there was
>> recognition
>> for good school grades and reminders about doing homework, etc.
>> Rosie just
>> felt glad it wasn't an issue for her and let it slide.
It would have been one for Senna, as she would have thought it unfair
("Justice" could have been her middle name during those years!) and
having nothing to do with athletic performance.
I think that, ideally, playing sports shouldn't be tied to good grades
or homework. I guess for a lot of parents, it is.
Robin B.
Sandra Dodd
-=-> The most recent is my 8 year old's baseball coaches. They pull the
ABSOLUTELY, that is the parent's job. Especially with an eight-year-old.
If the coach is saying it to everyone, then advise your son to let it slide off him.
If the coach is addressing your child in private or individually, then you've made a mistake by not pointing that out to the coach.
How is it that the coach doesn't already know this? Did your son sign up for baseball in your absence, entirely?
And maybe your son doesn't care one bit. :-)
Lots of times something bothers a parent a bunch, and the kids who have never been to school have no baggage surrounding it whatsoever.
Part of unschooling is the avoidance of school baggage. Don't try to get your unschooled children to carry any of yours.
A big part of DEschooling is putting down your baggage.
Sandra
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> school card a lot. "If you don't do your homework, your parents-=-Maybe *you* should say something, not leave it up to your son.-=-
> won't let you play." "If you don't do well in school, your parents
> won't let you play." My husband and I have been waiting for our son
> to speak and say he's homeschooled so he doesn't have to worry about
> that but he hasn't yet.
ABSOLUTELY, that is the parent's job. Especially with an eight-year-old.
If the coach is saying it to everyone, then advise your son to let it slide off him.
If the coach is addressing your child in private or individually, then you've made a mistake by not pointing that out to the coach.
How is it that the coach doesn't already know this? Did your son sign up for baseball in your absence, entirely?
And maybe your son doesn't care one bit. :-)
Lots of times something bothers a parent a bunch, and the kids who have never been to school have no baggage surrounding it whatsoever.
Part of unschooling is the avoidance of school baggage. Don't try to get your unschooled children to carry any of yours.
A big part of DEschooling is putting down your baggage.
Sandra
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Robert and Colleen
*** My husband and I have been waiting for our son to speak and say he's
homeschooled so he doesn't have to worry about that but he hasn't yet.***
When my son was 6 he joined a multi-age karate class in our town. He was
the only homeschooler there.
At the end of class one day, the teacher announced that starting the
following week, the kids would have to come to the front of the group each
session, and talk about their grades for the previous week - had they failed
any tests, gotten any grades less than a B, etc. He said this would keep
them "accountable and honest."
My husband went to the teacher after that announcement was made and told him
that our son is homeschooled and has no grades and tests :-)
The teacher asked "then how do you want me to motivate him to do better for
you?"
My husband said "I don't" :-)
The teacher asked "is there something else you want me to make him report
on, to get him to do good for you?"
Again my husband said "nope" - and then he suggested (nicely :-)) that the
karate teacher focus on karate, and let school focus on school and the
parents focus on parenting.
The karate teacher said he'd think about it, and the next week announced
that he had changed his mind about the whole grade-announcement idea, and
instead said the kids could come up to the front and share with the group if
they had something about their week to share - he called it "preparation for
future public speaking" which was at least better than his original idea ;-)
If my husband had just let our son deal with the teacher, that would have
been stranding him - not partnering with him. Maybe your son, too, needs a
partner, so it's not up to him to tell the coaches himself? :-)
Colleen
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homeschooled so he doesn't have to worry about that but he hasn't yet.***
When my son was 6 he joined a multi-age karate class in our town. He was
the only homeschooler there.
At the end of class one day, the teacher announced that starting the
following week, the kids would have to come to the front of the group each
session, and talk about their grades for the previous week - had they failed
any tests, gotten any grades less than a B, etc. He said this would keep
them "accountable and honest."
My husband went to the teacher after that announcement was made and told him
that our son is homeschooled and has no grades and tests :-)
The teacher asked "then how do you want me to motivate him to do better for
you?"
My husband said "I don't" :-)
The teacher asked "is there something else you want me to make him report
on, to get him to do good for you?"
Again my husband said "nope" - and then he suggested (nicely :-)) that the
karate teacher focus on karate, and let school focus on school and the
parents focus on parenting.
The karate teacher said he'd think about it, and the next week announced
that he had changed his mind about the whole grade-announcement idea, and
instead said the kids could come up to the front and share with the group if
they had something about their week to share - he called it "preparation for
future public speaking" which was at least better than his original idea ;-)
If my husband had just let our son deal with the teacher, that would have
been stranding him - not partnering with him. Maybe your son, too, needs a
partner, so it's not up to him to tell the coaches himself? :-)
Colleen
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Jenny Cyphers
***You "know" that learning is happening because your 7 year old is a fantastic reader.***
Being a fantastic reader isn't the best indicator that learning is happening. This is especially true for unschooling families. When learning looks totally different from what happens in school, it's best to see the learning in the activities that your children are doing. You will have a very hard time measuring their learning based on school learning if they aren't doing school.
One of the most common examples of this is the multiplication tables. There is this discrepancy in what "looks" like learning on the surface that happens especially in the 8-13 ish age range. Kids in school will appear to have all this vast knowledge that unschooling kids won't. Kids in school are on this very tight schedule to fit in all this knowledge. Kids that are 9 (at least around here) must know multiplication tables. If a kid reaches 10 and doesn't know this, they are behind, there is a deficit in that kid. So when your unschooled 9 yr old doesn't know multiplication, it's easy to say, "we're working on that", but when they reach 10 or 11 and still don't know it, it's hard to counter that.
The learning curve of an unschooler looks different. Most kids will learn how to multiply in their own way and time. If an unschooling parent can't see all that other learning that's happening that isn't school based, they are going to have a very hard time, a)defending what they do, and b)relaxing enough to not worry about it.
When my daughter was around 11 she wanted to know what multiplication was. Her school friends seemed to think it was a pretty big deal that she didn't know it. We did a quick 10 min demonstration and that was all it took for her to understand it. Her friends had been working on it for a couple of years at that point. Right before she turned 18, she was going to do a GED program at the local community college. She had to do a placement test. Her lowest score was in math, but it was still in the range of normal, and even at the level she got, it put her in the realm of being able to take college courses. All those years and only one single 10 min math demonstration and she was still on par with her school age peers, except she doesn't hate math and isn't afraid of it like many of her peers.
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Being a fantastic reader isn't the best indicator that learning is happening. This is especially true for unschooling families. When learning looks totally different from what happens in school, it's best to see the learning in the activities that your children are doing. You will have a very hard time measuring their learning based on school learning if they aren't doing school.
One of the most common examples of this is the multiplication tables. There is this discrepancy in what "looks" like learning on the surface that happens especially in the 8-13 ish age range. Kids in school will appear to have all this vast knowledge that unschooling kids won't. Kids in school are on this very tight schedule to fit in all this knowledge. Kids that are 9 (at least around here) must know multiplication tables. If a kid reaches 10 and doesn't know this, they are behind, there is a deficit in that kid. So when your unschooled 9 yr old doesn't know multiplication, it's easy to say, "we're working on that", but when they reach 10 or 11 and still don't know it, it's hard to counter that.
The learning curve of an unschooler looks different. Most kids will learn how to multiply in their own way and time. If an unschooling parent can't see all that other learning that's happening that isn't school based, they are going to have a very hard time, a)defending what they do, and b)relaxing enough to not worry about it.
When my daughter was around 11 she wanted to know what multiplication was. Her school friends seemed to think it was a pretty big deal that she didn't know it. We did a quick 10 min demonstration and that was all it took for her to understand it. Her friends had been working on it for a couple of years at that point. Right before she turned 18, she was going to do a GED program at the local community college. She had to do a placement test. Her lowest score was in math, but it was still in the range of normal, and even at the level she got, it put her in the realm of being able to take college courses. All those years and only one single 10 min math demonstration and she was still on par with her school age peers, except she doesn't hate math and isn't afraid of it like many of her peers.
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Rippy and Graham Dusseldorp
On Sep 13, 2012, at 4:47 PM, keetry wrote:
-=- my 5 year old asks me all day long if his friends are home yet. they've started kindergarten so it's the first time he's experienced not having friends to play with in the middle of the day. -=-
After the first time that happened to us, I've always made sure that Gianluca and Gisele have a holiday and/or lots of exciting things to do for the first couple of weeks of school - both in September and for the first week back in January. It's a really helpful transition period. We usually play hard all day and come back late in the evenings. After a couple of weeks, the children like slowing things down and are more happy being at home and around town, while the other kids are in school.
The other school period that I've paid attention to is pre-holiday (Christmas and summer). In our neighbourhood, the school kids are doing lots of cool things around that time - parties, festivals, picnics, trips. The first year, I was less prepared and Gianluca seemed disappointed with my simple ideas, especially when he heard how his school friends had spent the day. Now I think BIG, because both my children like that.
The rest of the year is pretty easy after those few dazzlingly exciting periods.
Rippy
(Gianluca 7, Gisele 5)
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