janedonnelly402

I have given my daughter the choice of returning to school this fall. She seems to be leaning toward returning even though she is utterly miserable there.

She has always struggled with friends/social life at school. She feels left out,ignored, disliked and like she has no friends at school. She is very lonely and desperate for a real friend who 'underestands her and she can tell everything too'

My word for what seems to happen is ostracized. She says she will try to participate but gets ignored or blown off and she said she even tried hanging with the boys but that did not work out either.

I am curious if there are any unschoolers in Michigan who have girls in the the 11-18 age group who we could meet for the kids to talk or even skype. Or are there any meet-ups happening that would have kids she could talk with?

Sandra Dodd

So your daughter hasn't been home yet at all? School last year?

Even if you met an unschooling family, the kids might not hit it off. Holly went a couple of years without friends her age and gender when she was 12 and 13 and it was rough for her.

If you can get to a gathering, a campout, a homeschoolers picnic that might help.

If your daughter continues in school a while it doesn't mean she always will. Maybe you could find outside activities-not necessarily with other kids. Maybe at crafts stores (classes or workshops) or hiking or skiing (clubs or classes), maybe something you and your daughter could do together.

Moving out into the real world will not look like a shadow school made of unschoolers.

But in the meantime, consider this approach:
http://sandradodd.com/schoolchoice Public School on Your Own Terms

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

BetteAnne

--- In [email protected], "janedonnelly402" <janedonnelly402@...> wrote:
>It may be more helpful if ~when you are out and about in your neighborhood, or at different places~ whether at a Park or Playground, or skating rink or swimming pool orBowling Alley, or in your travels to the library or *anywhere* ... encourage your daughter to go and introduce herself to someone she would like to *be* friends with, someones she feels attracted to because of what they may be doing, running, jumping, playing laughing etc....or if she would like you to introduce her if she feels more comfortable that way. I do it for my daughters all the time if they see someone they would like to play with. If they want me to do it~ I say Hi, would you like to play with mt daughters ~Domenica and Giovanna. No one has EVER said no. They are REAL friends THAT day, and if they got along exceptionally well I ask them ,~ would you like me to speak with the mother and invite them back to our home for tea or lemonade or get together another day or exchange phone #'s? My girls tell me what they would like me to do. We have met many friends that way that have stayed in our life.
As we know in life real friends come and go and some stay longer than others... depending on interests and where you physically live. If one moves you may stay in touch other ways and visit now and then. Real friends are anyone you are friendly with that day or for a lifetime. Try and share with your daughter that sometimes *real* friends may even hurt another person feelings, not on purpose of course, at least you would hope not. For a time they may separate but then in time they get together again.

Try that and see if that might help her and also explaining about friendships can be.

********************************************************************



> I have given my daughter the choice of returning to school this fall. She seems to be leaning toward returning even though she is utterly miserable there.
>
> She has always struggled with friends/social life at school. She feels left out,ignored, disliked and like she has no friends at school. She is very lonely and desperate for a real friend who 'underestands her and she can tell everything too'
>
> My word for what seems to happen is ostracized. She says she will try to participate but gets ignored or blown off and she said she even tried hanging with the boys but that did not work out either.
>
> I am curious if there are any unschoolers in Michigan who have girls in the the 11-18 age group who we could meet for the kids to talk or even skype. Or are there any meet-ups happening that would have kids she could talk with?
>

Robin Bentley

I'm wondering how the rest of her school year went, after you
discovered her emotional FB post earlier this year. Did she go on the
class trip? Was it worth staying in school for?

I'm not sure school is the entire problem (something posters on the
list mentioned, but were never really discussed further). I wonder why
she wants to go back to a place where she's so miserable?

I like Sandra's idea of you doing something *with* your daughter. As
she said, it's entirely possible she wouldn't hit it off with anyone
at a meetup, especially not right away. Relationships can take time to
build, even with unschoolers :-).

The two of you doing something together is a way to connect with her.
It's not in-your-face and it might be a lot of fun. Does she play any
computer/online games? Have you thought of playing with her? Another
way to connect.

I'd also suggest reading the book that Pam Sorooshian recommends
"Parent-Teen Breakthrough: A Relationship Approach". http://www.amazon.com/Parent-Teen-Breakthrough-Relationship-Approach/dp/0452266165

It could really help.

Robin B.


On Jul 23, 2012, at 10:16 AM, janedonnelly402 wrote:

> I have given my daughter the choice of returning to school this
> fall. She seems to be leaning toward returning even though she is
> utterly miserable there.
>
> She has always struggled with friends/social life at school. She
> feels left out,ignored, disliked and like she has no friends at
> school. She is very lonely and desperate for a real friend who
> 'underestands her and she can tell everything too'
>
> My word for what seems to happen is ostracized. She says she will
> try to participate but gets ignored or blown off and she said she
> even tried hanging with the boys but that did not work out either.
>
> I am curious if there are any unschoolers in Michigan who have girls
> in the the 11-18 age group who we could meet for the kids to talk or
> even skype. Or are there any meet-ups happening that would have kids
> she could talk with?
>

Meredith

"janedonnelly402" <janedonnelly402@...> wrote:
>
> I have given my daughter the choice of returning to school this fall. She seems to be leaning toward returning even though she is utterly miserable there.
****************

Ray was utterly miserably in school and thrilled at the idea of leaving, but the last day before school started up again he got kind of panicky, wondering how he'd keep up with friends and suggested that maybe he should just go back to school after all. It helped to give him a bit of a pep talk, reassure him that I'd do everything I could to get him together with friends, reassure him he could go back later if he still wanted, but really emphasize that I thought staying home from school was the best idea.

Stopping school can be really scary! It's familiar and predictable... better the devil you know.

Rather than just looking for unschoolers look at homeschool groups in general but also look for anything your daughter likes to do - the best way to meet people she'll connect with is going to be through her interests. It might also be a good idea to encourage her to think "outside the box" in terms of age. My kids friends run a range of ages from younger to decades older. School gets you in the habit of thinking of peers as people close in age, but in real life that's not how people make friends.

On a related note, does she like any online games? That can be a great way to meet other people of similar interests.

---Meredith

janedonnelly402

Thanks you for the ideas and replies.

My apologies for not writing clearly. Although it would be great if she connected with someone as a friend, what I meant to say was that speaking with other unschooled pre and teens or even twenty somethings and even ones who have went on to college may help her make a decision<or make it harder, I don't know>. If she were able to speak with kids who have unschooled to ask them questions about her fears, like being even more lonely as an outsider of the general local kid community as the kids are back in school doing schooly things and she is not, and falling behind academically which I know are two of her concerns. I am sure she has others but those are the two that she has specifically mentioned to me.






--- In [email protected], "janedonnelly402" <janedonnelly402@...> wrote:
>
> I have given my daughter the choice of returning to school this fall. She seems to be leaning toward returning even though she is utterly miserable there.
>
> She has always struggled with friends/social life at school. She feels left out,ignored, disliked and like she has no friends at school. She is very lonely and desperate for a real friend who 'underestands her and she can tell everything too'
>
> My word for what seems to happen is ostracized. She says she will try to participate but gets ignored or blown off and she said she even tried hanging with the boys but that did not work out either.
>
> I am curious if there are any unschoolers in Michigan who have girls in the the 11-18 age group who we could meet for the kids to talk or even skype. Or are there any meet-ups happening that would have kids she could talk with?
>

CarenKH

Is she a gamer? There's an unschooling gamers list that has a database of gamer tags of other unschoolers. Seth has made some very good friends via online gaming, both on XBOX 360 and Minecraft, which has extended to facebook and Skype.

http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/unschooling_gamers/messages

That's more about her feeling ostracized and left out in general - people can find online communities that fit their personalities more easily than they can "away from keyboard" sometimes.

Her fears about being lonely by not being connected to local friends would be assuaged by her having other connections.

It would be great if you could make it to an unschoolers' gathering - a conference or campout. The Northeast Unschoolers Conference in Wakefield, MA is at the end of August. I know there are some gatherings in Canada. Conferences usually have teen panels.

Idzie Desmarais is a grown unschooler who has written a lot about unschooling, and is open to people contacting her with questions. Her blog is here - this particular post talks about gatherings, and feeling alone:
http://yes-i-can-write.blogspot.com/2010/01/unschooling-gatherings.html Her skype contact info is on her about page.



Caren

Sandra Dodd

You, the mom, need to have enough confidence for both of you. You yourself should be looking for stories and examples and not leaving it for your daughter to do, if you want to move toward unschooling.

No individual unschooler has an obligation to speak to any other individual unschooler, and that might sound harsh, but it's true. Teens and young adults are living their lives, not as missionaries for unschooling, but as busy, whole people. You might need to go where they are, and not expect them to come to you.

Holly will be speaking with me in Florida in October for one of the presentations.

Rose Sorooshian (and several others to assist with Q&A) will be presenting in Albuquerque in late December.

There are teens and young adults in regular contact with Blake Boles, and that might be a resource for you to find stories.
http://blakeboles.com
Blake wasn't unschooled, but he's surrounded himself by unschoolers and has a deep interest in their lives and learning.

He has a new book that might be helpful to you, too.

So does Pam Laricchia:
http://www.livingjoyfully.ca/

Sandra

Robin Bentley

> My apologies for not writing clearly. Although it would be great if
> she connected with someone as a friend, what I meant to say was that
> speaking with other unschooled pre and teens or even twenty
> somethings and even ones who have went on to college may help her
> make a decision<or make it harder, I don't know>. If she were able
> to speak with kids who have unschooled to ask them questions about
> her fears, like being even more lonely as an outsider of the general
> local kid community as the kids are back in school doing schooly
> things and she is not, and falling behind academically which I know
> are two of her concerns. I am sure she has others but those are the
> two that she has specifically mentioned to me.

If you are unable to reassure her about the academics, maybe an
alternative school would be better than unschooling for her right now.
I rather get the feeling that you aren't really confident about how
unschooling could help your daughter, so it's been a hard sell. Do you
have any Sudbury schools or Alternative Ed programs where you are? A
different learning climate could be a transition to unschooling. And
it might help your husband see some possibilities for her.

It seems from your original post that grades have been a big deal and
her identity has been wrapped up in that. Now that she's at that
tricky age (not a kid, not a teen, not an adult) and her emotional
health is taking a dive, her grades are, too (and that can become a
vicious circle). I think you're on the right track, wanting her to be
happier than she is now, regardless of grades. Unschooling can help,
of course, but it can't against her will. She might need time to
realize that you value her health and happiness more than her academic
achievement.

She's 11, right? It seems rather young to be worried about academics,
although I know some kids are really quite serious about their
schoolwork. Maybe it's the only thing she has to hang on to (even if
her grades are messy), since she doesn't fit in well with the other
kids at school. At home, she could take all the time she needs to
really dig into "academics" if she wanted to. Unschooling, in that
way, will look different for every child, depending on *their* needs.
It doesn't have to (and really shouldn't ever) look like doing nothing.

She needs a change, I think. And that can be accomplished in more ways
than one.

Robin B.
>

Alex Polikowsy

The Unschooling gamers list is for unschoolers only or at least to ones moving towards unschooling.
It is not a list open to homeschoolers or kids that go to school.
I have been passed the list by the creators and so far I have kept the list as they originally intended. The list has been pretty active because of minecraft .if anyone wants to join please state in your application that you are an unschoer .
Alex

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 25, 2012, at 10:38 AM, "CarenKH" <dharmamama1@...> wrote:

>
> Is she a gamer? There's an unschooling gamers list that has a database of gamer tags of other unschoolers. Seth has made some very good friends via online gaming, both on XBOX 360 and Minecraft, which has extended to facebook and Skype.
>
> http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/unschooling_gamers/messages
>
> That's more about her feeling ostracized and left out in general - people can find online communities that fit their personalities more easily than they can "away from keyboard" sometimes.
>
> Her fears about being lonely by not being connected to local friends would be assuaged by her having other connections.
>
> It would be great if you could make it to an unschoolers' gathering - a conference or campout. The Northeast Unschoolers Conference in Wakefield, MA is at the end of August. I know there are some gatherings in Canada. Conferences usually have teen panels.
>
> Idzie Desmarais is a grown unschooler who has written a lot about unschooling, and is open to people contacting her with questions. Her blog is here - this particular post talks about gatherings, and feeling alone:
> http://yes-i-can-write.blogspot.com/2010/01/unschooling-gatherings.html Her skype contact info is on her about page.
>
> Caren
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

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Meredith

"janedonnelly402" <janedonnelly402@...> wrote:
> Although it would be great if she connected with someone as a friend...
****************

Don't discount that so quickly! Meeting other people and making more acquaintance and friendships deals with one of her concerns directly and the other stated concern indirectly. People learn about the world, discover options and get ideas from other people.

Really, whether she goes back to school or not it's important for you to actively look for ways she can meet more people, since school isn't meeting her needs in that regard.

---Meredith

Sandra Dodd

-=-Sometimes when I think "What will it be like for me?" I lose track of "What
do I want and how will I make it happen?"-=-

Good point.

Worrying about the future keeps a person from seeing their feet today.

http://sandradodd.com/being
http://sandradodd.com/moment

Sandra

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Sandra Dodd

-=- A
different learning climate could be a transition to unschooling. And
it might help your husband see some possibilities for her.

-=-It seems from your original post that grades have been a big deal and
her identity has been wrapped up in that.-=-


Robin has made a good point.

Maybe you could enroll in a distance-education program where she does her work by computer and still gets grades and credit, but you enrich the rest of her life in unschooling-style ways and both of you can see which she prefers.

Sandra



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