help for my sister
Kim Zerbe
This might get long. I don't know how much info to provide or leave out.
My sister and I always talked about homeschooling, even before we had kids.
We live in the same state about an hour apart and planned to encourage each
other and do stuff together. Years passed and she had several kids close
together. I think her life became overwhelming so she just sent the oldest
off to school when it was time for Kindergarten. She had 4 kids then and
couldn't see how she could homeschool one while meeting the needs of the
other 3 and managing the household. I guess getting 1 out of the house made
things easier. Then with one off to school, might as well send the next one,
and the next one. Now she has 5 kids, 4 are in school (ages 6, 9, 10, 12)
and a 2yo at home.
The middle child who just turned 9 is not doing well in school. She probably
has dyslexia (my sister had it and we think my dad did as well) and although
she has not been officially tested for dyslexia, she attends special classes
every day. She had delayed speech and issues with sounds and has been in
speech therapy for years. This makes her miss whatever is going on in her
regular class, so she is behind in all subjects. For some reason the
teachers do not make her do the work the other kids are doing. They cross
off the math problems she doesn't have to do so she only does the easy ones
(like 8+1, she doesn't have to do 32+23 that the other kids do). They allow
her to copy the spelling word list while other kids are taking a test. They
give her coloring pages instead of reading. This is 3rd grade, btw. I can
only imagine what her self esteem is like. She has to know she is different
and being treated differently.
My sister told me she is thinking of keeping her out of school next year and
I said YES, DO IT! She wants to but she is scared. She does not get along
with her 9yo and thinks having her at home will be a nightmare. She has a
2yo too. They seem to have nothing in common and my sister doesn't know what
to do or how to help her. She is still stuck on the notion that kids "need
to know certain things" and thinking she won't be able to teach her
anything. She knows what it's like to have dyslexia, having been through it,
but when my sister was diagnosed at age 10, she dove into the program head
first. She did well memorizing flash cards and listening to phonics
records/tapes and completing the workbooks. She worked really hard all the
way through high school and even college. But this is part of who she is,
strong willed and disciplined, and why it made sense for her to join the
Marine Corps at 18. She was all set to go to Iraq (I was going to help her
husband out with the older 2 while she was gone) but she got pregnant with
this child, her 3rd, and didn't go. (Hmm. wonder if there is a bit of
resentment there? She loved being a Marine and trained all those years to go
to war and never went.)
Anyway, her daughter is NOT like her at all. She is messy; my sister is
NEAT, everything must be organized and in its place. She is creative, always
drawing (happens to be left handed); my sister cannot draw and doesn't see
herself as creative. My sister says she is sassy and defiant, has a temper
and throws fits, doesn't listen and won't do things she is asked to do. They
are at odds and my sister had 4 other kids who also need her.
I have 1 child who just turned 8. My sister knows he's never been to school
but doesn't know we're unschooling (and we're on the radical side,
unschooling life and parenting in a very different way than she is). She has
been asking me questions about how we do things and what our days are like.
She wants recommendations for curriculum and I have no experience there. She
wants to make sure she "stays at grade level" or rather catches up to where
she is "supposed to be" since she's not there now. I don't want to scare her
away from homeschooling, but we are about as unstructured as it gets. I
don't believe there is a place where all kids should be, I don't believe
tests are helpful, I don't believe grades are relevant. We don't have much
of a schedule; we eat when we're hungry and sleep when we're tired. We might
stay at home and play wii in our pajamas or drive across town to visit fun
places. My son takes classes he wants to when he is interested in something.
We fly by the seat of our pants a lot more than she would be comfortable
with. Since it is summer and her kids are out of school, it's easier to get
together with them. Recently we took the kids swimming and last night went
to a rodeo together so I'm seeing her kids more than usual. I feel a
connection with her daughter because she is a lot like me (left-handed,
creative, defiant, low self esteem because of a mother who doesn't like her
- my sister did NOT have this issue, she was the clear favorite and had a
VERY different relationship with our mother!).
I just found out my sister's biggest fear is what if she pulls her out of
school and tries homeschooling for one year but can't take it and puts her
back and she's not any further along than where she is right now. She was
tested a few months ago and scored the equivalent of first grade, first
month (1.1) in math and reading and this was towards the end of 3rd grade.
She is NOT ready for 4th grade, but the school would just shuffle her along.
I wish I could help her, but I'm not sure what to suggest or say or do.
Kim Zerbe
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
My sister and I always talked about homeschooling, even before we had kids.
We live in the same state about an hour apart and planned to encourage each
other and do stuff together. Years passed and she had several kids close
together. I think her life became overwhelming so she just sent the oldest
off to school when it was time for Kindergarten. She had 4 kids then and
couldn't see how she could homeschool one while meeting the needs of the
other 3 and managing the household. I guess getting 1 out of the house made
things easier. Then with one off to school, might as well send the next one,
and the next one. Now she has 5 kids, 4 are in school (ages 6, 9, 10, 12)
and a 2yo at home.
The middle child who just turned 9 is not doing well in school. She probably
has dyslexia (my sister had it and we think my dad did as well) and although
she has not been officially tested for dyslexia, she attends special classes
every day. She had delayed speech and issues with sounds and has been in
speech therapy for years. This makes her miss whatever is going on in her
regular class, so she is behind in all subjects. For some reason the
teachers do not make her do the work the other kids are doing. They cross
off the math problems she doesn't have to do so she only does the easy ones
(like 8+1, she doesn't have to do 32+23 that the other kids do). They allow
her to copy the spelling word list while other kids are taking a test. They
give her coloring pages instead of reading. This is 3rd grade, btw. I can
only imagine what her self esteem is like. She has to know she is different
and being treated differently.
My sister told me she is thinking of keeping her out of school next year and
I said YES, DO IT! She wants to but she is scared. She does not get along
with her 9yo and thinks having her at home will be a nightmare. She has a
2yo too. They seem to have nothing in common and my sister doesn't know what
to do or how to help her. She is still stuck on the notion that kids "need
to know certain things" and thinking she won't be able to teach her
anything. She knows what it's like to have dyslexia, having been through it,
but when my sister was diagnosed at age 10, she dove into the program head
first. She did well memorizing flash cards and listening to phonics
records/tapes and completing the workbooks. She worked really hard all the
way through high school and even college. But this is part of who she is,
strong willed and disciplined, and why it made sense for her to join the
Marine Corps at 18. She was all set to go to Iraq (I was going to help her
husband out with the older 2 while she was gone) but she got pregnant with
this child, her 3rd, and didn't go. (Hmm. wonder if there is a bit of
resentment there? She loved being a Marine and trained all those years to go
to war and never went.)
Anyway, her daughter is NOT like her at all. She is messy; my sister is
NEAT, everything must be organized and in its place. She is creative, always
drawing (happens to be left handed); my sister cannot draw and doesn't see
herself as creative. My sister says she is sassy and defiant, has a temper
and throws fits, doesn't listen and won't do things she is asked to do. They
are at odds and my sister had 4 other kids who also need her.
I have 1 child who just turned 8. My sister knows he's never been to school
but doesn't know we're unschooling (and we're on the radical side,
unschooling life and parenting in a very different way than she is). She has
been asking me questions about how we do things and what our days are like.
She wants recommendations for curriculum and I have no experience there. She
wants to make sure she "stays at grade level" or rather catches up to where
she is "supposed to be" since she's not there now. I don't want to scare her
away from homeschooling, but we are about as unstructured as it gets. I
don't believe there is a place where all kids should be, I don't believe
tests are helpful, I don't believe grades are relevant. We don't have much
of a schedule; we eat when we're hungry and sleep when we're tired. We might
stay at home and play wii in our pajamas or drive across town to visit fun
places. My son takes classes he wants to when he is interested in something.
We fly by the seat of our pants a lot more than she would be comfortable
with. Since it is summer and her kids are out of school, it's easier to get
together with them. Recently we took the kids swimming and last night went
to a rodeo together so I'm seeing her kids more than usual. I feel a
connection with her daughter because she is a lot like me (left-handed,
creative, defiant, low self esteem because of a mother who doesn't like her
- my sister did NOT have this issue, she was the clear favorite and had a
VERY different relationship with our mother!).
I just found out my sister's biggest fear is what if she pulls her out of
school and tries homeschooling for one year but can't take it and puts her
back and she's not any further along than where she is right now. She was
tested a few months ago and scored the equivalent of first grade, first
month (1.1) in math and reading and this was towards the end of 3rd grade.
She is NOT ready for 4th grade, but the school would just shuffle her along.
I wish I could help her, but I'm not sure what to suggest or say or do.
Kim Zerbe
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
I thought of returning the post because it's not really about unschooling, and I don't think discussing the problems of school is good for the Always Learning discussion. There are a few points I wanted to make, and others might be willing to help a bit, but as to a full analysis of your sister's problem, it's not about unschooling.
-=-My sister and I always talked about homeschooling, even before we had kids.
We live in the same state about an hour apart and planned to encourage each
other and do stuff together.-=-
If a person wants to know more, that's one thing. If they're embroiled in and invested in school and they don't want to know about unschooling, it's probably best not to bring it up to them.
However, if your sister knew how you homeschooled, it might be helpful to her. If she's asking about a curriculum, it might be good to tell her you don't use one.
-=-The middle child who just turned 9 is not doing well in school. She probably
has dyslexia (my sister had it and we think my dad did as well) and although
she has not been officially tested for dyslexia, she attends special classes
every day. She had delayed speech and issues with sounds and has been in
speech therapy for years. This makes her miss whatever is going on in her
regular class, so she is behind in all subjects.-=-
That last part isn't dyslexia.
Maybe something here would help you think about ways to help your sister, though: http://sandradodd.com/special/
-=-For some reason the
teachers do not make her do the work the other kids are doing. -=-
You seem to think it would help someone for teachers to attempt to "make" your niece do "the work" other kids are doing.
-=-. They allow her to copy the spelling word list while other kids are taking a test. They
give her coloring pages instead of reading. This is 3rd grade, btw. I can only imagine what her self esteem is like. -=-
Probably not as bad as if she was trying and failing to do what the others are doing, all day, every school day.
-=-. She does not get along with her 9yo and thinks having her at home will be a nightmare.-=-
School does drive a wedge between parents and children. Parental attachment to school and "progress" and "keeping up" cement that wedge into place.
-=-She is still stuck on the notion that kids "need
to know certain things" and thinking she won't be able to teach her
anything.-=-
If she thinks you're teaching your children certain things, instead of providing a comfortable, interesting, safe environment, you're contributing to that, somewhat.
-=-. She is creative, always drawing (happens to be left handed)-=-
Dyslexia isn't a disease. And it often comes with left-handedness.
-=-My sister says she is sassy and defiant, has a temper
and throws fits, doesn't listen and won't do things she is asked to do. They
are at odds and my sister had 4 other kids who also need her.
-=-
Maybe you could suggest that your sister put that child out for adoption.
Ultimately, your sister can either find the good things in her child, or continue to resent her more.
Your sister won't want to do that, but thinking about it for a moment might help her choose to keep her daughter home and be nice to her.
A child doesn't have to go to school "to know she is different and being treated differently." Parents can do that damage at home, and then a child has no safe place to go at the end of the "school day." But at home, children SHOULD be treated differently, each one in his own special way.
-=-She wants recommendations for curriculum and I have no experience there. She
wants to make sure she "stays at grade level" or rather catches up to where
she is "supposed to be" since she's not there now. -=-
If a school full of trained special ed teachers can't get her daughter "at grade level," why should your sister think she can?
Poor child. Poor family!
It's very likely that by the time she's 15, no one will know your niece was ever "behind," IF your sister can relax and give her more time and space to learn in her own ways and in her own time.
Maybe a year vacation would be helpful. Maybe sending her to a different school from her siblings could help (if your sister's family can afford that). If she does want to keep her home, maybe a few appointments by phone or skype with Michelle Barone could help her settle on ways to help her daughter and to improve their relationship.
http://www.michellebarone.net/
If she wants to know about some typical days, maybe send this:
http://sandradodd.com/typical
There are ideas for a way to look at unschooling in school terms, too, here: http://sandradodd.com/unschoolingcurriculum
For the sake of your own child and your own family, though, don't attach to this situation or its outcome. Offer ideas and back away. That will sound harsh, but if you look too closely and invest too much emotion in a situation you can't control, it can do damage to your own peace.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
-=-My sister and I always talked about homeschooling, even before we had kids.
We live in the same state about an hour apart and planned to encourage each
other and do stuff together.-=-
If a person wants to know more, that's one thing. If they're embroiled in and invested in school and they don't want to know about unschooling, it's probably best not to bring it up to them.
However, if your sister knew how you homeschooled, it might be helpful to her. If she's asking about a curriculum, it might be good to tell her you don't use one.
-=-The middle child who just turned 9 is not doing well in school. She probably
has dyslexia (my sister had it and we think my dad did as well) and although
she has not been officially tested for dyslexia, she attends special classes
every day. She had delayed speech and issues with sounds and has been in
speech therapy for years. This makes her miss whatever is going on in her
regular class, so she is behind in all subjects.-=-
That last part isn't dyslexia.
Maybe something here would help you think about ways to help your sister, though: http://sandradodd.com/special/
-=-For some reason the
teachers do not make her do the work the other kids are doing. -=-
You seem to think it would help someone for teachers to attempt to "make" your niece do "the work" other kids are doing.
-=-. They allow her to copy the spelling word list while other kids are taking a test. They
give her coloring pages instead of reading. This is 3rd grade, btw. I can only imagine what her self esteem is like. -=-
Probably not as bad as if she was trying and failing to do what the others are doing, all day, every school day.
-=-. She does not get along with her 9yo and thinks having her at home will be a nightmare.-=-
School does drive a wedge between parents and children. Parental attachment to school and "progress" and "keeping up" cement that wedge into place.
-=-She is still stuck on the notion that kids "need
to know certain things" and thinking she won't be able to teach her
anything.-=-
If she thinks you're teaching your children certain things, instead of providing a comfortable, interesting, safe environment, you're contributing to that, somewhat.
-=-. She is creative, always drawing (happens to be left handed)-=-
Dyslexia isn't a disease. And it often comes with left-handedness.
-=-My sister says she is sassy and defiant, has a temper
and throws fits, doesn't listen and won't do things she is asked to do. They
are at odds and my sister had 4 other kids who also need her.
-=-
Maybe you could suggest that your sister put that child out for adoption.
Ultimately, your sister can either find the good things in her child, or continue to resent her more.
Your sister won't want to do that, but thinking about it for a moment might help her choose to keep her daughter home and be nice to her.
A child doesn't have to go to school "to know she is different and being treated differently." Parents can do that damage at home, and then a child has no safe place to go at the end of the "school day." But at home, children SHOULD be treated differently, each one in his own special way.
-=-She wants recommendations for curriculum and I have no experience there. She
wants to make sure she "stays at grade level" or rather catches up to where
she is "supposed to be" since she's not there now. -=-
If a school full of trained special ed teachers can't get her daughter "at grade level," why should your sister think she can?
Poor child. Poor family!
It's very likely that by the time she's 15, no one will know your niece was ever "behind," IF your sister can relax and give her more time and space to learn in her own ways and in her own time.
Maybe a year vacation would be helpful. Maybe sending her to a different school from her siblings could help (if your sister's family can afford that). If she does want to keep her home, maybe a few appointments by phone or skype with Michelle Barone could help her settle on ways to help her daughter and to improve their relationship.
http://www.michellebarone.net/
If she wants to know about some typical days, maybe send this:
http://sandradodd.com/typical
There are ideas for a way to look at unschooling in school terms, too, here: http://sandradodd.com/unschoolingcurriculum
For the sake of your own child and your own family, though, don't attach to this situation or its outcome. Offer ideas and back away. That will sound harsh, but if you look too closely and invest too much emotion in a situation you can't control, it can do damage to your own peace.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kim Zerbe
Thank you for taking the time to respond. I know it wasn't about
unschooling, I just didn't know where else to bring my question. I want to
help but feel like I can't. I would love to have my sister join me on my
unschooling journey. I would love for her to take this one child out of
school and then realize she could take the others out too. The other 3 are
boys and are all reading beyond "grade level" and being held back by school.
They can only go so far, one in particular is obviously bored. But she is
not concerned so much with them because they get good grades. But she is so
far from where I am and I don't even know if I can meet her halfway. I feel
like I should have been helping her all along, but we haven't been that
close. We are working on bettering our friendship.
I have been worried that this might be someone's advice:
<<For the sake of your own child and your own family, though, don't attach
to this situation or its outcome. Offer ideas and back away. That will sound
harsh, but if you look too closely and invest too much emotion in a
situation you can't control, it can do damage to your own peace.>>
I just hope I can offer the right advice. That's why I came to this group.
Maybe it's too OT because it's not entirely about unschooling. I wish it
were. If anyone has helped a friend or relative find the path to
unschooling, I'd love to hear more about that.
<<School does drive a wedge between parents and children. Parental
attachment to school and "progress" and "keeping up" cement that wedge into
place.>>
I am just beside myself and weeping for this child. I don't know how to help
her. I feel like I can't just stand by while my sister flails and treats her
poorly. Or I'd be just as bad as all the adults in my life who looked the
other way and didn't help ME when I was a kid. When she talks frankly about
her daughter, I hear my own mother complaining to one of her sisters about
me. I wonder if she did. My whole life I felt my mother didn't like me,
still feel it. She never understood me, she never defended me, she never
listened to me. We don't have a relationship now. At all. I remember
wondering why my aunts didn't take my mother aside and tell her there was a
better way, how to have a better relationship with me. Maybe they didn't
know a better way. One aunt has always had great relationships with her 3
kids and I wanted her to tell my mom the secret. I think is has to do with
being brave enough to not do what your mom did to you if it was awful.
<<However, if your sister knew how you homeschooled, it might be helpful to
her. If she's asking about a curriculum, it might be good to tell her you
don't use one.>>
<<If she thinks you're teaching your children certain things, instead of
providing a comfortable, interesting, safe environment, you're contributing
to that, somewhat.>>
I thought she knew we didn't use a set curriculum, but I told her point
blank yesterday. I illustrated examples of what our typical days might be
like. I tried really hard to explain our lifestyle. No bedtime, no limits on
screen time, no forced workbooks or reading time (although he does often sit
and read and I read to him most nights in bed), learning all the time and
connecting subjects and going off on tangents, how I play video games with
my son, how he doesn't have chores but when I need help I ask and he'll
often do what he can and occasionally not help in which case I just do it
myself, how some days we stay in pajamas and other days we're all over town,
he takes classes and does sports of his choosing, AND I even said several
times that I don't care what kids his age are learning in school. Who
decided what kids should learn and when? Why is it different in different
states? We moved around a lot as our dad was a Marine and I told her how
when we moved to NC my 8th grade year I felt like I was repeating 7th grade.
Some of the math I had done in 6th grade in Hawaii. I even had to read the
same books over. It was like torture. That was the year she repeated 4th
grade, after being told she had dyslexia and spending a year doing special
work, but no one at the new school knew.
She's worried about too much TV and video games. I told her how much certain
games have helped my son learn to read (and gave him the desire to read) and
problem solve and so on. She said she gets that kids are learning all the
time, but there is a point when kids have been in front of the tv too long.
I admitted that some days all he wants to do is master a level and I might
sit and watch, play with him, cheer him on, clean the kitchen, take a
shower, bring him food, answer emails, talk on the phone, or any number of
things. And when he was done he'd stop and do something else. I do know this
is a hard concept for a lot of people to grasp, so I wasn't pushing it too
hard, just put it out there.
<<Maybe you could suggest that your sister put that child out for
adoption.>>
I wish I could bring her to my house and raise her but that can't be the
answer! I want to help and feel like I don't have much time to save her. If
I can't explain unschooling by the end of August, or at least get my sister
some resources so she can try a relaxed version of home schooling, I fear
she just might enroll her back in school. I feel like I have 2 months to
show her how awesome life can be and especially how relationships matter so
much more than school subjects and timelines.
The links were very helpful. I'll send her some tonight and maybe more after
a bit. Don't want to bombard her with it, but hope maybe she'll read a few
at a time.
Thank you for taking the time to respond even though it's not really an
unschooling issue.
Kim
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
unschooling, I just didn't know where else to bring my question. I want to
help but feel like I can't. I would love to have my sister join me on my
unschooling journey. I would love for her to take this one child out of
school and then realize she could take the others out too. The other 3 are
boys and are all reading beyond "grade level" and being held back by school.
They can only go so far, one in particular is obviously bored. But she is
not concerned so much with them because they get good grades. But she is so
far from where I am and I don't even know if I can meet her halfway. I feel
like I should have been helping her all along, but we haven't been that
close. We are working on bettering our friendship.
I have been worried that this might be someone's advice:
<<For the sake of your own child and your own family, though, don't attach
to this situation or its outcome. Offer ideas and back away. That will sound
harsh, but if you look too closely and invest too much emotion in a
situation you can't control, it can do damage to your own peace.>>
I just hope I can offer the right advice. That's why I came to this group.
Maybe it's too OT because it's not entirely about unschooling. I wish it
were. If anyone has helped a friend or relative find the path to
unschooling, I'd love to hear more about that.
<<School does drive a wedge between parents and children. Parental
attachment to school and "progress" and "keeping up" cement that wedge into
place.>>
I am just beside myself and weeping for this child. I don't know how to help
her. I feel like I can't just stand by while my sister flails and treats her
poorly. Or I'd be just as bad as all the adults in my life who looked the
other way and didn't help ME when I was a kid. When she talks frankly about
her daughter, I hear my own mother complaining to one of her sisters about
me. I wonder if she did. My whole life I felt my mother didn't like me,
still feel it. She never understood me, she never defended me, she never
listened to me. We don't have a relationship now. At all. I remember
wondering why my aunts didn't take my mother aside and tell her there was a
better way, how to have a better relationship with me. Maybe they didn't
know a better way. One aunt has always had great relationships with her 3
kids and I wanted her to tell my mom the secret. I think is has to do with
being brave enough to not do what your mom did to you if it was awful.
<<However, if your sister knew how you homeschooled, it might be helpful to
her. If she's asking about a curriculum, it might be good to tell her you
don't use one.>>
<<If she thinks you're teaching your children certain things, instead of
providing a comfortable, interesting, safe environment, you're contributing
to that, somewhat.>>
I thought she knew we didn't use a set curriculum, but I told her point
blank yesterday. I illustrated examples of what our typical days might be
like. I tried really hard to explain our lifestyle. No bedtime, no limits on
screen time, no forced workbooks or reading time (although he does often sit
and read and I read to him most nights in bed), learning all the time and
connecting subjects and going off on tangents, how I play video games with
my son, how he doesn't have chores but when I need help I ask and he'll
often do what he can and occasionally not help in which case I just do it
myself, how some days we stay in pajamas and other days we're all over town,
he takes classes and does sports of his choosing, AND I even said several
times that I don't care what kids his age are learning in school. Who
decided what kids should learn and when? Why is it different in different
states? We moved around a lot as our dad was a Marine and I told her how
when we moved to NC my 8th grade year I felt like I was repeating 7th grade.
Some of the math I had done in 6th grade in Hawaii. I even had to read the
same books over. It was like torture. That was the year she repeated 4th
grade, after being told she had dyslexia and spending a year doing special
work, but no one at the new school knew.
She's worried about too much TV and video games. I told her how much certain
games have helped my son learn to read (and gave him the desire to read) and
problem solve and so on. She said she gets that kids are learning all the
time, but there is a point when kids have been in front of the tv too long.
I admitted that some days all he wants to do is master a level and I might
sit and watch, play with him, cheer him on, clean the kitchen, take a
shower, bring him food, answer emails, talk on the phone, or any number of
things. And when he was done he'd stop and do something else. I do know this
is a hard concept for a lot of people to grasp, so I wasn't pushing it too
hard, just put it out there.
<<Maybe you could suggest that your sister put that child out for
adoption.>>
I wish I could bring her to my house and raise her but that can't be the
answer! I want to help and feel like I don't have much time to save her. If
I can't explain unschooling by the end of August, or at least get my sister
some resources so she can try a relaxed version of home schooling, I fear
she just might enroll her back in school. I feel like I have 2 months to
show her how awesome life can be and especially how relationships matter so
much more than school subjects and timelines.
The links were very helpful. I'll send her some tonight and maybe more after
a bit. Don't want to bombard her with it, but hope maybe she'll read a few
at a time.
Thank you for taking the time to respond even though it's not really an
unschooling issue.
Kim
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Meredith
Step away from all the school stuff. Do you like your niece? I don't mean "do you love her" I mean do you want to spend time with her? If so, offer to do that - not homeschool stuff, except maybe "art" instead offer to do fun things with her, get her out of mom's hair and be her friend.
---Meredith
>I don't want to scare herYou could tell her that - there are other ways to homeschool, and she'll probably pick something very different than what you do. That means you're not a useful homeschooling resource to her, but you can be a different kind of resource for her daughter.
> away from homeschooling, but we are about as unstructured as it gets.
> My sister and I always talked about homeschooling, even before we had kids.Lots of people talk about homeschooling and never do it - most of the moms I knew when Mo was a baby were talking about homeschooling right up to the point when they put their kids in school. Of people who do homeschool, most take at least a year to figure out what "works" for them. A girlfriend of mine is all excited about unschooling at the moment - she's had a kid in the hospital, but once all that settles down there's no way of knowing if she'll unschool or homeschool or put her kids back in school, so I'm working hard on having no expectations in that regard. There's really no way of knowing what she'll decide until the school year begins.
---Meredith
Meredith
"Kim Zerbe" <kim.zerbe@...> wrote:
If your sister and her daughter don't get along, there may not be a good short-term fix for that. School, with it's attempts to make things easier on this girl may well be the better option than her being home with a critical mom who's going to push-push-push her.
If you can help your sister and niece, then do that. Don't frame it in terms of unschooling or teaching your sister to be a better parent, do it as a gift. But don't beat yourself up if you don't have the resources to help them - it won't help anyone to feel crummy about things you can't change.
---Meredith
> how I play video games withIf her relationship with her kids isn't like yours, she could well come to the conclusion that she could never do that, because her kid isn't like that. In a way, she'd be right - if (if!!!) she were to unschool it would likely look very different than your life because her daughter is not your son (and she has a bunch of other kids besides). That's why "this is what works for me" advice isn't so good for helping people understand unschooling - personalities matter, and history matters.
> my son, how he doesn't have chores but when I need help I ask and he'll
> often do what he can and occasionally not help in which case I just do it
> myself, how some days we stay in pajamas and other days we're all over town,
> he takes classes and does sports of his choosing
>>I feel like I have 2 months toYou can do that with your niece in school by becoming her friend. If you live close enough, pick her up from school some days and take her to do something fun for an hour. If you live a little farther, have her over on the weekend for a "girls day out". If you live farther, invite her to spend the rest of the summer with you. Make it a gift you're giving to both your sister and your niece, a break, a chance for your sister to feel like her daughter has Some adult who can connect and guide her, a chance for your niece to feel supported.
> show her how awesome life can be and especially how relationships matter so
> much more than school subjects and timelines.
If your sister and her daughter don't get along, there may not be a good short-term fix for that. School, with it's attempts to make things easier on this girl may well be the better option than her being home with a critical mom who's going to push-push-push her.
>If anyone has helped a friend or relative find the path toDon't attach so much to unschooling. It's not a panacea. I've met a few families for which unschooling was a disaster and the kids were miserable - it takes some skills and resources which not all families have! Don't blame your sister or yourself if unschooling isn't a good option for her family. Instead, look for ways to help improve the situation at hand - what can you do right now to ease the stress a bit? Maybe instead of taking the girl out, you can invite all the boys over for a day of boy fun and let mom and daughter have a spa day.
> unschooling
>My whole life I felt my mother didn't like me,It won't help anyone to make your sister's relationship with her daughter about you. Not you, not the sister, not the niece. Maybe you can use a tiny little bit of that to commiserate with your niece and be her friend, but don't go overboard or you'll drive the wedge between mother and daughter deeper. If you decide to become her friend, part of your job is to Support the mother-child relationship. So work on keeping your own baggage separate. That's important.
> still feel it. She never understood me, she never defended me, she never
> listened to me.
>>One aunt has always had great relationships with her 3Part of the secret is to be someone else, have a different history and a different personality. Part of the secret is to have the right resources - but which resources are "right" is going to vary. It's much easier to have all the right resources with a kid whose personality is like yours than with a kid who doesn't like what you like or think the way you think or have needs which make sense to you. When one child is the "odd man out" in a family, it throws a big, big monkey wrench into the works (mixing my metaphors!). Having an "odd man out" can feel like parents being asked to give up what they want and love for their child - and to an extent that's true, at least at first.
> kids and I wanted her to tell my mom the secret.
If you can help your sister and niece, then do that. Don't frame it in terms of unschooling or teaching your sister to be a better parent, do it as a gift. But don't beat yourself up if you don't have the resources to help them - it won't help anyone to feel crummy about things you can't change.
---Meredith
Pam Sorooshian
Will she read a book? Get a copy of "The Parent-Teen Breakthrough: A
Relationship Approach" by Myra Kirschenbaum and give it to her.
I also have a sister who doesn't take kindly to being given advice by me -
but she will read and was open to the ideas in that book. It isn't about
unschooling - it is about putting the parent/teen relationship as one's
highest priority.
-Pam
Relationship Approach" by Myra Kirschenbaum and give it to her.
I also have a sister who doesn't take kindly to being given advice by me -
but she will read and was open to the ideas in that book. It isn't about
unschooling - it is about putting the parent/teen relationship as one's
highest priority.
-Pam
On Sat, Jul 7, 2012 at 1:22 AM, Kim Zerbe <kim.zerbe@...> wrote:
> Thank you for taking the time to respond. I know it wasn't about
> unschooling,
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
alma
--- In [email protected], "Meredith" <plaidpanties666@...> wrote:
However, you don't want to put such a good spin on it that you get blamed if it all goes wrong. It has to be your sister's sure decision.
Alison
>I was wondering this too - and does your son get on with her? If your sister chose to homeschool her daughter by *any* method you guys all might be able to hang out more together and over time your sister could just witness more of your life. You might do some fun stuff together. You could also develop a closer relationship with your niece if you saw her without the rest of her family and this is more likely whatever homeschool method your sister chose. If homeschooling went quite well for the first year your sister might then be more relaxed carrying on into the future and less concerned about where your niece would score in terms of grades etc. So maybe try and support your sister into any homeschooling at first.
> Step away from all the school stuff. Do you like your niece?
However, you don't want to put such a good spin on it that you get blamed if it all goes wrong. It has to be your sister's sure decision.
Alison