My 4 year old son "doesn't like me"...
Jen
Ok, I am still new to unschooling and attachment parenting, so I am inevitably making a lot of mistakes, one being that I still say "no" to my 4 year old son when it's not really warranted. For example, about 2 minutes before dinner last night, he got a kid CLIF bar out of the pantry and wanted to eat that. I told him dinner was almost done (and it was something he likes), but he kept yelling that he didn't want dinner, he wanted the bar.
My mistake was saying no, I know that...but, he did end up eating his dinner, and then he still wanted the bar afterwards, so he must've just been really hungry. I wonder if he would've eaten the bar if he would've also eaten his dinner, I just don't know. I knew I made a mistake when he carried on for a few minutes screaming that he doesn't like mommy anymore (because I wouldn't let him have the bar).
Thing is, I feel like living this way is giving into every whim of a child. I WANT to give in, and I WANT to be that mom who never gets ruffled and just does it, but I DO. Ever since we started doing this, my son's demands have gotten steadily higher and higher...to the point where he won't get up off the couch to get his own cup of water right on the coffee table...or I'm changing his sister's poopy diaper and he throws a fit because I can't help him with his pirate belt RIGHT THAT MOMENT. He whines and cries until I finish a non-stoppable task...it gets frustrating for me, because I do want to help him, but sometimes he does have to wait, even if just a few seconds. I do know this is his age, but does anyone have any solutions or ways to "be" with a child who is, for lack of a better term, bossy with his parents? Do I just go with this newfound bossiness, or do I talk to him about it somehow...he's at an age where he doesn't really hear me when I'm trying to explain something to him -- he gets agitated and tells me to "stop asking him questions" when I talk about anything that he doesn't want to hear about...that's how I know I'm annoying him, so I stop.
Along with the bossiness is his grabbiness (sorry for the words I keep making up...LOL). If his sister has ANYTHING (including something of hers), he takes it. I always intervene and try to help everyone have something they want, we work it out (and I always give his stuff back to him if she got a hold of it somehow)...but, the constant grabbing of stuff because he thinks whatever she has is better is getting out of hand. It gets to the point, where he'll take something just to take it and put it up high where she can't get it (and then he doesn't even play with it or anything...and it's HER toy.) Any suggestions?
Thanks for listening...just a tired mom with good intentions.
My mistake was saying no, I know that...but, he did end up eating his dinner, and then he still wanted the bar afterwards, so he must've just been really hungry. I wonder if he would've eaten the bar if he would've also eaten his dinner, I just don't know. I knew I made a mistake when he carried on for a few minutes screaming that he doesn't like mommy anymore (because I wouldn't let him have the bar).
Thing is, I feel like living this way is giving into every whim of a child. I WANT to give in, and I WANT to be that mom who never gets ruffled and just does it, but I DO. Ever since we started doing this, my son's demands have gotten steadily higher and higher...to the point where he won't get up off the couch to get his own cup of water right on the coffee table...or I'm changing his sister's poopy diaper and he throws a fit because I can't help him with his pirate belt RIGHT THAT MOMENT. He whines and cries until I finish a non-stoppable task...it gets frustrating for me, because I do want to help him, but sometimes he does have to wait, even if just a few seconds. I do know this is his age, but does anyone have any solutions or ways to "be" with a child who is, for lack of a better term, bossy with his parents? Do I just go with this newfound bossiness, or do I talk to him about it somehow...he's at an age where he doesn't really hear me when I'm trying to explain something to him -- he gets agitated and tells me to "stop asking him questions" when I talk about anything that he doesn't want to hear about...that's how I know I'm annoying him, so I stop.
Along with the bossiness is his grabbiness (sorry for the words I keep making up...LOL). If his sister has ANYTHING (including something of hers), he takes it. I always intervene and try to help everyone have something they want, we work it out (and I always give his stuff back to him if she got a hold of it somehow)...but, the constant grabbing of stuff because he thinks whatever she has is better is getting out of hand. It gets to the point, where he'll take something just to take it and put it up high where she can't get it (and then he doesn't even play with it or anything...and it's HER toy.) Any suggestions?
Thanks for listening...just a tired mom with good intentions.
Sandra Dodd
-=- but he kept yelling that he didn't want dinner, he wanted the bar. -=-
"Kept yelling" sounds bad.
I think giving him a bite of something from dinner might have been a good idea, if that was possible, so that it wasn't the bar or nothing.
Or what if you had asked if he could eat half then and half afterwards? Or a taste of it might have been enough. Maybe you could have taken it and cut it into three pieces, or something.
Don't think of it as all or nothing; think with a range of options.
-=-I wonder if he would've eaten the bar if he would've also eaten his dinner, I just don't know.-=-
You will never know unless you try it!
Years back when Kirby and Marty were 5 and 3 and Holly wasn't born yet, we went to California and were at a restaurant with adult friends who didn't know our kids but had known us for a long time. The first thing we did, when the waiter came to ask what drinks we wanted was to ask her to bring two slices of apple pie with the drinks. Our friends made the expected noise about how the kids wouldn't eat anything else if they had pie first.
My thought was to keep the boys busy and happy and not hungry, so the adults could visit more peacefully, so I didn't really care whether they ate food later or not, but from my own knowledge of them, and experience, I was pretty sure they would.
When the food came, they ate some of everything, especially the chicken strips, and so my friends were (easily) amazed. They had NO IDEA such a thing could happen. Here is why: They never would have tried it.
They, like you, were operating from a belief that the phrases they had heard all their lives were true, and that the restrictions they had grown up with were necessary, important, vital. And maybe in a family where children feel that the reason to eat dinner is to "earn" dessert, that could be true.
My kids weren't used to "dessert." They were used to food being food, eating if they were hungry, and not eating if they weren't. They weren't trained by the clock at all. And it made a difference.
-=-Thing is, I feel like living this way is giving into every whim of a child.-=-
Those are words, and they aren't YOUR words. "Giving into every whim of a child" is an extreme image, and is the opposite of what? Controlling him? NOT "giving in"? It's adversarial thinking. It's belittling to him.
-=-I WANT to give in, and I WANT to be that mom who never gets ruffled and just does it, but I DO. Ever since we started doing this, my son's demands have gotten steadily higher and higher...-=-
If you would change the way you think of this, from "demands" and "giving in," it will help.
-=- I do know this is his age, but does anyone have any solutions or ways to "be" with a child who is, for lack of a better term, bossy with his parents? Do I just go with this newfound bossiness, or do I talk to him about it somehow...he's at an age where he doesn't really hear me when I'm trying to explain something to him -- he gets agitated and tells me to "stop asking him questions" when I talk about anything that he doesn't want to hear about...that's how I know I'm annoying him, so I stop. -=-
More action, less talk.
If he wants help with the pirate belt, maybe ask him to come where you are, and talk to him while you finish changing the diaper, and he will be getting attention, and seeing that you're busy.
-=- for lack of a better term, bossy with his parents? --=-
That's another phrase that's coming to you in someone else's words.
http://sandradodd.com/phrases
If someone else's phrase comes to your mind, so does their opinion and judgment.
It will take a while for you to disentangle and to see things with your own eyes and not your parents' or grandparents', but it's part of the process.
He's four, and would be four whether you were unschooling or not, so think of your alternatives, and think of your choices, and keep moving through one moment at a time, making better (more peaceful) choices as often as you can.
These might help, too, but definitely look at the phrases page linked above.
http://sandradodd.com/parentingpeacefully
http://sandradodd.com/choices
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
"Kept yelling" sounds bad.
I think giving him a bite of something from dinner might have been a good idea, if that was possible, so that it wasn't the bar or nothing.
Or what if you had asked if he could eat half then and half afterwards? Or a taste of it might have been enough. Maybe you could have taken it and cut it into three pieces, or something.
Don't think of it as all or nothing; think with a range of options.
-=-I wonder if he would've eaten the bar if he would've also eaten his dinner, I just don't know.-=-
You will never know unless you try it!
Years back when Kirby and Marty were 5 and 3 and Holly wasn't born yet, we went to California and were at a restaurant with adult friends who didn't know our kids but had known us for a long time. The first thing we did, when the waiter came to ask what drinks we wanted was to ask her to bring two slices of apple pie with the drinks. Our friends made the expected noise about how the kids wouldn't eat anything else if they had pie first.
My thought was to keep the boys busy and happy and not hungry, so the adults could visit more peacefully, so I didn't really care whether they ate food later or not, but from my own knowledge of them, and experience, I was pretty sure they would.
When the food came, they ate some of everything, especially the chicken strips, and so my friends were (easily) amazed. They had NO IDEA such a thing could happen. Here is why: They never would have tried it.
They, like you, were operating from a belief that the phrases they had heard all their lives were true, and that the restrictions they had grown up with were necessary, important, vital. And maybe in a family where children feel that the reason to eat dinner is to "earn" dessert, that could be true.
My kids weren't used to "dessert." They were used to food being food, eating if they were hungry, and not eating if they weren't. They weren't trained by the clock at all. And it made a difference.
-=-Thing is, I feel like living this way is giving into every whim of a child.-=-
Those are words, and they aren't YOUR words. "Giving into every whim of a child" is an extreme image, and is the opposite of what? Controlling him? NOT "giving in"? It's adversarial thinking. It's belittling to him.
-=-I WANT to give in, and I WANT to be that mom who never gets ruffled and just does it, but I DO. Ever since we started doing this, my son's demands have gotten steadily higher and higher...-=-
If you would change the way you think of this, from "demands" and "giving in," it will help.
-=- I do know this is his age, but does anyone have any solutions or ways to "be" with a child who is, for lack of a better term, bossy with his parents? Do I just go with this newfound bossiness, or do I talk to him about it somehow...he's at an age where he doesn't really hear me when I'm trying to explain something to him -- he gets agitated and tells me to "stop asking him questions" when I talk about anything that he doesn't want to hear about...that's how I know I'm annoying him, so I stop. -=-
More action, less talk.
If he wants help with the pirate belt, maybe ask him to come where you are, and talk to him while you finish changing the diaper, and he will be getting attention, and seeing that you're busy.
-=- for lack of a better term, bossy with his parents? --=-
That's another phrase that's coming to you in someone else's words.
http://sandradodd.com/phrases
If someone else's phrase comes to your mind, so does their opinion and judgment.
It will take a while for you to disentangle and to see things with your own eyes and not your parents' or grandparents', but it's part of the process.
He's four, and would be four whether you were unschooling or not, so think of your alternatives, and think of your choices, and keep moving through one moment at a time, making better (more peaceful) choices as often as you can.
These might help, too, but definitely look at the phrases page linked above.
http://sandradodd.com/parentingpeacefully
http://sandradodd.com/choices
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On May 13, 2012, at 6:26 AM, Jen wrote:
So shift your point of view to being the only way he has to meet his needs. You are his power. You are his avenue to meeting his wants and needs.
The first step can be to recognize that he needs to eat more often than adults. So make sure he has some food available when he's liable to be hungry. Especially if the smell of dinner cooking makes him realize he's hungry. At that point he might be way too hungry to eat something small. His body knows it needs a big chunk of calories so the Clif bar will look better than some crackers.
So put out a small plate of food that he likes earlier to stave off hunger.
If you don't want him grabbing Clif bars whenever he wants, put them up so he needs to ask. That way you can offer other options before giving him the Clif bar.
If you forget to put out food, don't focus on the right answer being to get him to hold off for dinner. Give him choices. Let him know how soon dinner is. Let him know what dinner is. Give him options of food to choose from. Then let him choose. The choice he makes today won't be the choice he makes for the rest of his life. So he has a Clif bar instead of dinner one night. Or 10 nights. What will that matter in 10 years? Each time he makes a choice he'll be learning more about his needs, how his choice works with his need and more about himself.
It could be he feels like whether you'll meet a need is iffy so he needs to ask more often and more emphatically.
It could be he feels your stress and is reflecting it back in the way he asks.
It could be he's going through something. Or the family is going through something.
Rather than seeing him as becoming more and more irritating, see this as him communicating a need. He may not know what the need is. But his actions are sending up distress signals.
Creating an atmosphere of compassion for him to ask in can be as important as meeting the need (since we and they can't always know what the need is.) Be more peaceful with him. Maybe picture him as being in pain. There may be nothing you can do to make the pain go away but you can make his life more peaceful or make it more difficult.
Several people have said they keep up a running dialog of what they're doing when this stage happens. Like "Okay, I've got the diaper off now. Now I'm wiping her butt ...."
You can also invite him in to help. Don't shame him if he chooses not to.
Shift your perspective from trying to teach him the right way to be to creating an atmosphere for him to pick up skills when he's developmentally ready.
He has the skill set of a 4 yo. He has the needs and wants of a 4 yo. He has the emotional capacity to deal with life of a 4 yo. All those things will change with time but you can't teach him to be different any more than you could teach him to do calligraphy at 4.
Be his better skill set. He'll see how you solve problems and when he's developmentally able, he'll absorb it and start trying things out himself.
Empower him. Where you can, make life more accessible for him so he can meet many needs on his own. Where you can't, be his power.
Be sensitive to the fact that he may want you to meet them because you doing things for him says "I love you," to him.
Can you arrange for some one on one time with him once a week where you give him your full attention?
Joyce
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> Thing is, I feel like living this way is giving into every whim of a child. I WANT to give inYou shouldn't want to give into whims.
So shift your point of view to being the only way he has to meet his needs. You are his power. You are his avenue to meeting his wants and needs.
> I wonder if he would've eaten the bar if he would've also eaten his dinner,I think your mistake is in thinking that dinner is more important than eating when you're hungry.
The first step can be to recognize that he needs to eat more often than adults. So make sure he has some food available when he's liable to be hungry. Especially if the smell of dinner cooking makes him realize he's hungry. At that point he might be way too hungry to eat something small. His body knows it needs a big chunk of calories so the Clif bar will look better than some crackers.
So put out a small plate of food that he likes earlier to stave off hunger.
If you don't want him grabbing Clif bars whenever he wants, put them up so he needs to ask. That way you can offer other options before giving him the Clif bar.
If you forget to put out food, don't focus on the right answer being to get him to hold off for dinner. Give him choices. Let him know how soon dinner is. Let him know what dinner is. Give him options of food to choose from. Then let him choose. The choice he makes today won't be the choice he makes for the rest of his life. So he has a Clif bar instead of dinner one night. Or 10 nights. What will that matter in 10 years? Each time he makes a choice he'll be learning more about his needs, how his choice works with his need and more about himself.
> my son's demands have gotten steadily higher and higher.It could be age.
It could be he feels like whether you'll meet a need is iffy so he needs to ask more often and more emphatically.
It could be he feels your stress and is reflecting it back in the way he asks.
It could be he's going through something. Or the family is going through something.
Rather than seeing him as becoming more and more irritating, see this as him communicating a need. He may not know what the need is. But his actions are sending up distress signals.
Creating an atmosphere of compassion for him to ask in can be as important as meeting the need (since we and they can't always know what the need is.) Be more peaceful with him. Maybe picture him as being in pain. There may be nothing you can do to make the pain go away but you can make his life more peaceful or make it more difficult.
> I'm changing his sister's poopy diaper and he throws a fit becauseThis is very likely an age thing. You can't change what he's feeling. But time will change him and his ability to cope with what he feels.
> I can't help him with his pirate belt RIGHT THAT MOMENT. He whines
> and cries until I finish a non-stoppable task
Several people have said they keep up a running dialog of what they're doing when this stage happens. Like "Okay, I've got the diaper off now. Now I'm wiping her butt ...."
You can also invite him in to help. Don't shame him if he chooses not to.
> he gets agitated and tells me to "stop asking him questions"Good that you're stopping :-)
> when I talk about anything that he doesn't want to hear about...
> that's how I know I'm annoying him, so I stop.
Shift your perspective from trying to teach him the right way to be to creating an atmosphere for him to pick up skills when he's developmentally ready.
He has the skill set of a 4 yo. He has the needs and wants of a 4 yo. He has the emotional capacity to deal with life of a 4 yo. All those things will change with time but you can't teach him to be different any more than you could teach him to do calligraphy at 4.
Be his better skill set. He'll see how you solve problems and when he's developmentally able, he'll absorb it and start trying things out himself.
Empower him. Where you can, make life more accessible for him so he can meet many needs on his own. Where you can't, be his power.
Be sensitive to the fact that he may want you to meet them because you doing things for him says "I love you," to him.
> It gets to the point, where he'll take somethingIt could be he's wishing he were an only child since his sister is taking you from him.
> just to take it and put it up high where she can't get it
Can you arrange for some one on one time with him once a week where you give him your full attention?
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
> he gets agitated and tells me to "stop asking him questions"-=-Good that you're stopping :-)-=-
> when I talk about anything that he doesn't want to hear about...
> that's how I know I'm annoying him, so I stop.
Maybe learn to stop before he feels the need to tell you to stop, because you're eroding his desire and willingness to listen to you by talking too much.
I don't know what kind of questions you're asking him, but I have a guess (you don't need to confirm or deny; there are others here for whom it will be true). If you're asking him leading questions intended to manipulate him to say thing you want said (to agree to what you believe), please don't ever do that again. Not with him, not with your husband, not with friends. Those are not honest questions.
Sometimes when people post here (or on facebook) they'll write, "But a child should [blah blah blah], don't you agree, Sandra?" And it's irritating. It's an attempt to get me to back up or affirm something, to strengthen their "play." It's not nice. It's uncomfortable. It's manipulation. It makes me NOT want to agree with them sometimes.
So if the questions he's telling you to stop asking were not honest, real questions, or were asked in ways you wouldn't ask a friend, change your way of communicating with him.
He shouldn't need to ask you to stop, if you're paying attention to his more subtle responses.
Sandra
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Trista Teeter
==I don't know what kind of questions you're asking him, but I have a
guess (you don't need to confirm or deny; there are others here for whom it will be true). If you're asking him leading questions intended to
manipulate him to say thing you want said (to agree to what you
believe), please don't ever do that again. Not with him, not with your
husband, not with friends. Those are not honest questions.==
I have been having a difficult time with this...not so much between myself and my kids, but I am out of ideas for what to do when you add the husband that believes that kids should do what you ask when you ask with no qualms. I am trying to show by example, try heading off high-friction situations before they happen, try talking about it... Just today he said, "Why do you think the kids don't do things that we ask? It seems like every time it leads to a confrontation." I brought up the idea that perhaps they feel like they don't have a choice (in his eyes, they don't--adults ask, they should obey). I got a "Huh." I've tried discussing the concept of, "How would youfeel if we asked you to (insert menial task that builds character), not expecting you to put up a fuss or even say no?" But he tells me it's not the same--we have the responsibility to make our kids into responsible children. I've brought up that it could perhaps be done in
other ways, but got a shrug and usually something pertaining to, "I want them to know how to listen to their boss someday" or something else that makes me feel like we're just running in circles.
It is getting frustrating because life is so different when he's at work--the kids are MUCH more likely to help out when I ask then, but as soon as he comes home things get tense. And I feel awful because the kids tell me, "We like you much better than Daddy." and that is the last thing I want!!
At this point, I don't know what to do other than keep doing what I'm doing?? We've agreed that we don't agree but that we need to. Ugh, I'm tired of butting heads, but have no desire to take on such an authoritative role. I would be extremely grateful for any input.
Thank you!
Trista
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
guess (you don't need to confirm or deny; there are others here for whom it will be true). If you're asking him leading questions intended to
manipulate him to say thing you want said (to agree to what you
believe), please don't ever do that again. Not with him, not with your
husband, not with friends. Those are not honest questions.==
I have been having a difficult time with this...not so much between myself and my kids, but I am out of ideas for what to do when you add the husband that believes that kids should do what you ask when you ask with no qualms. I am trying to show by example, try heading off high-friction situations before they happen, try talking about it... Just today he said, "Why do you think the kids don't do things that we ask? It seems like every time it leads to a confrontation." I brought up the idea that perhaps they feel like they don't have a choice (in his eyes, they don't--adults ask, they should obey). I got a "Huh." I've tried discussing the concept of, "How would youfeel if we asked you to (insert menial task that builds character), not expecting you to put up a fuss or even say no?" But he tells me it's not the same--we have the responsibility to make our kids into responsible children. I've brought up that it could perhaps be done in
other ways, but got a shrug and usually something pertaining to, "I want them to know how to listen to their boss someday" or something else that makes me feel like we're just running in circles.
It is getting frustrating because life is so different when he's at work--the kids are MUCH more likely to help out when I ask then, but as soon as he comes home things get tense. And I feel awful because the kids tell me, "We like you much better than Daddy." and that is the last thing I want!!
At this point, I don't know what to do other than keep doing what I'm doing?? We've agreed that we don't agree but that we need to. Ugh, I'm tired of butting heads, but have no desire to take on such an authoritative role. I would be extremely grateful for any input.
Thank you!
Trista
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Robin Bentley
> Just today he said, "Why do you think the kids don't do things that we ask? It seems like every time it leads to a confrontation." I brought up the idea that perhaps they feel like they don't have a choice (in his eyes, they don't--adults ask, they should obey). I got a "Huh." I've tried discussing the concept of, "How would youfeel if we asked you to (insert menial task that builds character), not expecting you to put up a fuss or even say no?" But he tells me it's not the same--we have the responsibility to make our kids into responsible children. I've brought up that it could perhaps be done inYou could ask him how *he* learned to listen to his boss and whether he thinks it has served him well. You could talk about what he liked and didn't like about unquestioning obedience - not in a confrontational or manipulative way - but to find out his underlying thinking about the issues he has. These are things people don't talk about much before they have kids then, boom, all of a sudden mom and dad have completely different outlooks on how to approach life!
> other ways, but got a shrug and usually something pertaining to, "I want them to know how to listen to their boss someday" or something else that makes me feel like we're just running in circles.
It's fine to learn how to listen to your boss (even though good bosses usually want thinking employees, not yes-men), but you guys aren't their bosses. You're their parents who want to make the world of learning all manner of things available to them. Not only that, they might want to be the bosses instead and it would be advantageous to learn how to listen to their employees!
Also, if you started out with "what a parent says goes" and you've changed to "kids have a right to say 'no' to any request, anytime" too fast, then his resistance can pretty much be expected.
>Maybe you have inadvertently set this up by being the "good guy". The tension probably is set by you. You're thinking "oh, no - here comes a battle about something".
> It is getting frustrating because life is so different when he's at work--the kids are MUCH more likely to help out when I ask then, but as soon as he comes home things get tense. And I feel awful because the kids tell me, "We like you much better than Daddy." and that is the last thing I want!!
Maybe you could work with the kids to do something special for dad before he comes home. It might not have to be the 'menial task that builds character' (whatever the heck that is). It could be something they initiate or agree on. Help them understand that a little effort can go a long way to calming the waters. They'll see that dad gets more relaxed and happy, which will be easier on them and you. And will it might make it easier for your husband to be more open to alternatives to the do-what-I-say model.
>I think you might mean authoritarian. Being authoritative is a good thing - it means you're to be trusted and that you're reliable!
> At this point, I don't know what to do other than keep doing what I'm doing?? We've agreed that we don't agree but that we need to. Ugh, I'm tired of butting heads, but have no desire to take on such an authoritative role. I would be extremely grateful for any input.
>
I think you're seeing you and your husband on opposite sides. You don't have to be, because you both want your kids to be happy and probably competent. You just have different understandings of how that's accomplished.
You can bring him along gently as part of the team by doing what Sandra suggests "Read a little, try a little, wait a while, watch". Report to him by email or blog post or photos about what your kids are doing that he would like to see, plus other really cool stuff they do. He can't see it when he's at work and things are tense when he gets home. Keeping him in the loop can ease that tension for both of you, and for your kids. You will then become the authority in the house on how unschooling works. It's about learning all kinds of things, too, not just obedience to the person in the corner office! He'll trust you more when he see some results.
Robin B.
Mary Whited
On Mon, May 14, 2012 at 2:33 AM, Robin Bentley <robin.bentley@...>wrote:
home a few years ago. My husband was away for about 12 hours each work day
and it was eroding that connection we all had to and with him.
It was painful for me to see that during the times he was at home with us,
he and the children were in conflict much of the time. it wasn't over what
they were learning -- it was about things like keeping their rooms tidy,
eating their dinners, not snacking before meals, going to bed at a
particular time -- and all of these (and other) things were to be done
without 'talking back' or questioning parental authority.
It had gotten to the point where the children and I were relaxed and happy
when papa was away and tense and anxious when he was home. It was not a
good situation at all.
I brought a question here and got such awesome feedback. It helped me to
see that my husband's needs were not getting met and that I was setting up
a dynamic that encouraged the children to see papa as 'the problem.'
That feedback helped me to sit and think and observe and make some changes.
We worked as a team, the children and I, to make our home a more peaceful
place so that when papa came home he was embraced in a loving 'nest' and
welcomed there.
I modeled being compassionate about my husband's need for a calm, tidy and
(at least at times) peaceful home. The children and I had various, short
conversations about how hard it was for papa to be away from home so much,
knowing that he was missing out on the 'good stuff' with them and how we
could rearrange things (physical and priorities) to help him participate.
Those were tiny changes in terms of effort and HUGE changes in terms of
outcome. Having a more peaceful & tidy home kept papa's stress levels lower
meaning he was interacting with us instead of reacting to his own stress.
Getting more of the 'daily life maintenance' stuff taken care of (cooking,
cleaning, etc.) while he was away meant that we had time and space for fun
when papa was home.
It was my responsibility, I finally understood to set up the best possible
situations for all of us. It was my responsibility to set the tone for how
the children viewed papa's involvement in our lives. Because falling into a
dynamic where it was us vs. papa was bad for everyone.
Our family is far stronger now for these changes. My husband is no longer
the outsider. The children welcome and encourage his involvement and
presence. I am happy he is with us....and he feels it. :D
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> **This seems quite similar to a troubling dynamic that had developed in our
>
> >>> It is getting frustrating because life is so different when he's at
> work--the kids are MUCH more likely to help out when I ask then, but as
> soon as he comes home things get tense. And I feel awful because the kids
> tell me, "We like you much better than Daddy." and that is the last thing I
> want!!
>
> >Maybe you have inadvertently set this up by being the "good guy". The
> tension probably is set by you. You're thinking "oh, no - here comes a
> battle about something".
>
> >Maybe you could work with the kids to do something special for dad before
> he comes home. It might not have to be the 'menial task that builds
> character' (whatever the heck that is). It could be something they initiate
> or agree on. Help them understand that a little effort can go a long way to
> calming the waters. They'll see that dad gets more relaxed and happy, which
> will be easier on them and you. And will it might make it easier for your
> husband to be more open to alternatives to the do-what-I-say model.
>
>
home a few years ago. My husband was away for about 12 hours each work day
and it was eroding that connection we all had to and with him.
It was painful for me to see that during the times he was at home with us,
he and the children were in conflict much of the time. it wasn't over what
they were learning -- it was about things like keeping their rooms tidy,
eating their dinners, not snacking before meals, going to bed at a
particular time -- and all of these (and other) things were to be done
without 'talking back' or questioning parental authority.
It had gotten to the point where the children and I were relaxed and happy
when papa was away and tense and anxious when he was home. It was not a
good situation at all.
I brought a question here and got such awesome feedback. It helped me to
see that my husband's needs were not getting met and that I was setting up
a dynamic that encouraged the children to see papa as 'the problem.'
That feedback helped me to sit and think and observe and make some changes.
We worked as a team, the children and I, to make our home a more peaceful
place so that when papa came home he was embraced in a loving 'nest' and
welcomed there.
I modeled being compassionate about my husband's need for a calm, tidy and
(at least at times) peaceful home. The children and I had various, short
conversations about how hard it was for papa to be away from home so much,
knowing that he was missing out on the 'good stuff' with them and how we
could rearrange things (physical and priorities) to help him participate.
Those were tiny changes in terms of effort and HUGE changes in terms of
outcome. Having a more peaceful & tidy home kept papa's stress levels lower
meaning he was interacting with us instead of reacting to his own stress.
Getting more of the 'daily life maintenance' stuff taken care of (cooking,
cleaning, etc.) while he was away meant that we had time and space for fun
when papa was home.
It was my responsibility, I finally understood to set up the best possible
situations for all of us. It was my responsibility to set the tone for how
the children viewed papa's involvement in our lives. Because falling into a
dynamic where it was us vs. papa was bad for everyone.
Our family is far stronger now for these changes. My husband is no longer
the outsider. The children welcome and encourage his involvement and
presence. I am happy he is with us....and he feels it. :D
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-I have been having a difficult time with this...not so much between myself and my kids, but I am out of ideas for what to do when you add the husband -=-
You should not have subtracted the husband.
http://sandradodd.com/gradualchange
http://sandradodd.com/spouses
Moving to unschooling solidly and gradually is better than jumping there without taking your spouse, and risking a divorce, which most likely will prevent unschooling (espcially if the divorce is about that).
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
You should not have subtracted the husband.
http://sandradodd.com/gradualchange
http://sandradodd.com/spouses
Moving to unschooling solidly and gradually is better than jumping there without taking your spouse, and risking a divorce, which most likely will prevent unschooling (espcially if the divorce is about that).
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-That feedback helped me to sit and think and observe and make some changes.
We worked as a team, the children and I, to make our home a more peaceful
place so that when papa came home he was embraced in a loving 'nest' and
welcomed there.-=-
That whole post of Mary's got me so excited that I went to find a place to put it. So it's there now, and part of Robin's, and some other ideas that might help the original poster, and others, maybe.
http://sandradodd.com/reluctance
(And then I asked Mary if I could use her name and all, and she said yes! :-)
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
We worked as a team, the children and I, to make our home a more peaceful
place so that when papa came home he was embraced in a loving 'nest' and
welcomed there.-=-
That whole post of Mary's got me so excited that I went to find a place to put it. So it's there now, and part of Robin's, and some other ideas that might help the original poster, and others, maybe.
http://sandradodd.com/reluctance
(And then I asked Mary if I could use her name and all, and she said yes! :-)
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Trista Teeter
--Also, if you started out with "what a parent says goes" and you've
changed to "kids have a right to say 'no' to any request, anytime" too
fast, then his resistance can pretty much be expected.--
Yes, you are right, he does mention occasionally that there were many sudden switches. I was trying to avoid moving too quickly, but I'm thinking it was too quick for him. I have a difficult time finding a balance, I think--how DO you find a balance?? Or navigate through certain sticky situations such as him asking the kids to come and help set the table and them saying "not right now" and it turning into a battle of wills?
--Maybe you have inadvertently set this up by being the "good guy". The
tension probably is set by you. You're thinking "oh, no - here comes a
battle about something". --
I try so hard not to do this, but perhaps the trying is the problem. I am just so torn because it often feels like I am faced with chosing sides.
--You can bring him along gently as part of the team by doing what Sandra
suggests "Read a little, try a little, wait a while, watch". Report to
him by email or blog post or photos about what your kids are doing that
he would like to see, plus other really cool stuff they do. He can't see
it when he's at work and things are tense when he gets home. Keeping
him in the loop can ease that tension for both of you, and for your
kids. You will then become the authority in the house on how unschooling
works. It's about learning all kinds of things, too, not just obedience
to the person in the corner office! He'll trust you more when he see
some results.--
Thank you for this, I fear I'm a bit impatient and although I DO see progress being made, I think perhaps I get excited and expect too much too soon. I think I need a big REPEAT at the end of the "Read a little, try a little, wait a while, watch".
**You should not have subtracted the husband.
http://sandradodd.com/gradualchange
http://sandradodd.com/spouses**
I knew it as I wrote it--please excuse the ill-placed frustration. Also, must remember to look at these pages once a week...it's amazing how much they help.
a dynamic that encouraged the children to see papa as 'the problem.'>>
Thank you so much for all of your input! I do find that I don't assess my husband's needs nearly as often as I do my children, will put that on the priorities list.
Thanks again for all of the continued guidance and direction, it's absolutely invaluable!!
Trista
changed to "kids have a right to say 'no' to any request, anytime" too
fast, then his resistance can pretty much be expected.--
Yes, you are right, he does mention occasionally that there were many sudden switches. I was trying to avoid moving too quickly, but I'm thinking it was too quick for him. I have a difficult time finding a balance, I think--how DO you find a balance?? Or navigate through certain sticky situations such as him asking the kids to come and help set the table and them saying "not right now" and it turning into a battle of wills?
--Maybe you have inadvertently set this up by being the "good guy". The
tension probably is set by you. You're thinking "oh, no - here comes a
battle about something". --
I try so hard not to do this, but perhaps the trying is the problem. I am just so torn because it often feels like I am faced with chosing sides.
--You can bring him along gently as part of the team by doing what Sandra
suggests "Read a little, try a little, wait a while, watch". Report to
him by email or blog post or photos about what your kids are doing that
he would like to see, plus other really cool stuff they do. He can't see
it when he's at work and things are tense when he gets home. Keeping
him in the loop can ease that tension for both of you, and for your
kids. You will then become the authority in the house on how unschooling
works. It's about learning all kinds of things, too, not just obedience
to the person in the corner office! He'll trust you more when he see
some results.--
Thank you for this, I fear I'm a bit impatient and although I DO see progress being made, I think perhaps I get excited and expect too much too soon. I think I need a big REPEAT at the end of the "Read a little, try a little, wait a while, watch".
**You should not have subtracted the husband.
http://sandradodd.com/gradualchange
http://sandradodd.com/spouses**
I knew it as I wrote it--please excuse the ill-placed frustration. Also, must remember to look at these pages once a week...it's amazing how much they help.
>>I brought a question here and got such awesome feedback. It helped me tosee that my husband's needs were not getting met and that I was setting up
a dynamic that encouraged the children to see papa as 'the problem.'>>
Thank you so much for all of your input! I do find that I don't assess my husband's needs nearly as often as I do my children, will put that on the priorities list.
Thanks again for all of the continued guidance and direction, it's absolutely invaluable!!
Trista
>>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
dezignarob
I agree - this was a beautiful post.
It got me thinking about how easy I have it with a husband who has a deep understanding of unschooling. James will even be speaking at NEUC this August.
I do text him with cool stuff that happens while he is away at work, but I often let things around the house slide. He is so sweet and gentle that I forget to think of the house as being his nest too, and not just our workshop.
Robyn L. Coburn
www.robyncoburn.blogspot.com
www.iggyjingles.blogspot.com
www.allthingsdoll.blogspot.com
It got me thinking about how easy I have it with a husband who has a deep understanding of unschooling. James will even be speaking at NEUC this August.
I do text him with cool stuff that happens while he is away at work, but I often let things around the house slide. He is so sweet and gentle that I forget to think of the house as being his nest too, and not just our workshop.
Robyn L. Coburn
www.robyncoburn.blogspot.com
www.iggyjingles.blogspot.com
www.allthingsdoll.blogspot.com
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
> -=-That feedback helped me to sit and think and observe and make some changes.
> We worked as a team, the children and I, to make our home a more peaceful
> place so that when papa came home he was embraced in a loving 'nest' and
> welcomed there.-=-
>
> That whole post of Mary's got me so excited that I went to find a place to put it. So it's there now, and part of Robin's, and some other ideas that might help the original poster, and others, maybe.
>
> http://sandradodd.com/reluctance
>
> (And then I asked Mary if I could use her name and all, and she said yes! :-)
>
> Sandra
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Sandra Dodd
-=-how DO you find a balance??-=-
Thoughtfully. Mindfully.
http://sandradodd.com/balance
http://sandradodd.com/mindfulparenting
http://sandradodd.com/mindfulness/
-=-Or navigate through certain sticky situations such as him asking the kids to come and help set the table and them saying "not right now" and it turning into a battle of wills? -=-
You ask them. You could say "I'll help you."
Or you set the table in advance before your husband asks a kid to do it.
Or you ask the kids to come and help.
Or you ask your husband if he really needs help, or if he's trying to train them.
I don't know what will work at your house, but supporting the kids with "not right now" is probably not the best idea if your husband is resistant.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Thoughtfully. Mindfully.
http://sandradodd.com/balance
http://sandradodd.com/mindfulparenting
http://sandradodd.com/mindfulness/
-=-Or navigate through certain sticky situations such as him asking the kids to come and help set the table and them saying "not right now" and it turning into a battle of wills? -=-
You ask them. You could say "I'll help you."
Or you set the table in advance before your husband asks a kid to do it.
Or you ask the kids to come and help.
Or you ask your husband if he really needs help, or if he's trying to train them.
I don't know what will work at your house, but supporting the kids with "not right now" is probably not the best idea if your husband is resistant.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]