DH wants limits now on media
catfish_friend
My husband has been saying recently that he is concerned with the amount of TV and iPhone usage our 3 and 5.75 year old girls are having. He has said that he had been "letting things go" as a way of being sensitive to my needs and wants in how I want to parent as well as because I had an unexpected job loss and my grandmother had passed away. He didn't want to add to my stress by pressing the issue before.
He and I see some things the same way and some quite differently with regard to their media use.
Bedtimes used to be reading time but once the iPhones came along, reading books wasn't as appealing. One or the other may still ask to read, but often they want different books so the iPhone has been great. One watches her show or plays a game while I read with the other. My husband rarely puts them to bed. Both girls voluntarily and gladly turn their iPhones off when they are done with them and ready to sleep (or read). I have told this to my husband, but he feels they are up too late because they are overstimulated from watching videos right before bed. I don't see it that way at all. What is ironic to me about this is that he often falls asleep in front of the TV himself. I mentioned this to him, but he comes back with, "I'm 40, not 5." We've had talks about TV limits growing up. I had none and he had limits. I work in film editing but hardly watch TV (except what I watch with the girls). I think rarely a night goes by that my husband doesn't watch TV...
Because my husband says goodnight to the girls before they actually completely unwind and fall asleep, I can choose to uphold my husband's "5 more minutes of your video, then it's off" or I can let it go longer. I've been letting it go as long as it is not disturbing anyone. I've tried discussing with my husband the value of what they are watching and learning as well as how limiting media makes it more appealing to them. I've sent him Pam's article on the economics of restriction. I've told him about my college best friend who religiously watched TV throughout college -- she was not allowed to watch TV growing up.
My husband has strong feelings on limiting our girls' media use. I feel that if I support his stance on it, what have been peaceful bedtimes for me will become stressful arguments over turning off the iPhone that I will have to enforce because my husband does not put the girls to bed. At the same time, when I don't enforce my husband's new rules/limits, I feel I'm undermining him.
I actively see the benefits my girls get from watching their shows as well as the games they play on their iPhones. I don't think my husband sees that and I don't know how to help him see it.
I could really use some suggestions on how to respond to this situation. We are not arguing about it, but we are of two minds. And I don't feel confident in my choices as I see them currently.
Thanks in advance!
Ceci
Sent from my iDon'tAlwaysHaveItOnPhone
He and I see some things the same way and some quite differently with regard to their media use.
Bedtimes used to be reading time but once the iPhones came along, reading books wasn't as appealing. One or the other may still ask to read, but often they want different books so the iPhone has been great. One watches her show or plays a game while I read with the other. My husband rarely puts them to bed. Both girls voluntarily and gladly turn their iPhones off when they are done with them and ready to sleep (or read). I have told this to my husband, but he feels they are up too late because they are overstimulated from watching videos right before bed. I don't see it that way at all. What is ironic to me about this is that he often falls asleep in front of the TV himself. I mentioned this to him, but he comes back with, "I'm 40, not 5." We've had talks about TV limits growing up. I had none and he had limits. I work in film editing but hardly watch TV (except what I watch with the girls). I think rarely a night goes by that my husband doesn't watch TV...
Because my husband says goodnight to the girls before they actually completely unwind and fall asleep, I can choose to uphold my husband's "5 more minutes of your video, then it's off" or I can let it go longer. I've been letting it go as long as it is not disturbing anyone. I've tried discussing with my husband the value of what they are watching and learning as well as how limiting media makes it more appealing to them. I've sent him Pam's article on the economics of restriction. I've told him about my college best friend who religiously watched TV throughout college -- she was not allowed to watch TV growing up.
My husband has strong feelings on limiting our girls' media use. I feel that if I support his stance on it, what have been peaceful bedtimes for me will become stressful arguments over turning off the iPhone that I will have to enforce because my husband does not put the girls to bed. At the same time, when I don't enforce my husband's new rules/limits, I feel I'm undermining him.
I actively see the benefits my girls get from watching their shows as well as the games they play on their iPhones. I don't think my husband sees that and I don't know how to help him see it.
I could really use some suggestions on how to respond to this situation. We are not arguing about it, but we are of two minds. And I don't feel confident in my choices as I see them currently.
Thanks in advance!
Ceci
Sent from my iDon'tAlwaysHaveItOnPhone
Sarah
Good Morning,
Wow so you have yourself in a bit of a bind as far as how smooth the household runs. I totally understand that bind because I am presently in one myself actully. Its hard when we live in households with different opinons and thoughts because we all are our own people. But what needs to be acknowledged I think here is that yes you have your ideas about the iphone, your hubby has his, but the missing link is that your children have theirs as well and their opinon is as important as yours and his. When we would run into this in our household where I have a different opinon then my husband , we asked the kids what they thought. Well actully even when we agree about things, wee ask because this is their home too but we have had many a conversation here about weither or not their playing a certain video game to much or watching to much video. I was always of the opinon tht they were not, but my husband would often say I think they are watching to much. when we asked the children and we both stated our case/thoughts , there have been times( which is happening right now) that the children would say , you know what your right dad, I am getting a little to wrapped up , I am gonna take a break. I know that your children are young, but I believe that even young children deserve a chance to speak their mind about whats happening. Its not always easy but often they have alot of very valuable things to say. I would seriously call a family meeting and let your husband say to your chidlren , this is how I am feeling, I think its to much or whatever. without threatening to take it away, thats the important part. You have to remeber that these little humans deserve to have a say in their life. Then have your hubby ask why itsimportant to them? what their thoughts are on it , and go from there. Now I dont claim to have this all figured out, I most definitly do not lol, but this is what has worked in our family.
Brightest blessings and the best of luck
Sarah
Unschooling mama of five.
--- In
Wow so you have yourself in a bit of a bind as far as how smooth the household runs. I totally understand that bind because I am presently in one myself actully. Its hard when we live in households with different opinons and thoughts because we all are our own people. But what needs to be acknowledged I think here is that yes you have your ideas about the iphone, your hubby has his, but the missing link is that your children have theirs as well and their opinon is as important as yours and his. When we would run into this in our household where I have a different opinon then my husband , we asked the kids what they thought. Well actully even when we agree about things, wee ask because this is their home too but we have had many a conversation here about weither or not their playing a certain video game to much or watching to much video. I was always of the opinon tht they were not, but my husband would often say I think they are watching to much. when we asked the children and we both stated our case/thoughts , there have been times( which is happening right now) that the children would say , you know what your right dad, I am getting a little to wrapped up , I am gonna take a break. I know that your children are young, but I believe that even young children deserve a chance to speak their mind about whats happening. Its not always easy but often they have alot of very valuable things to say. I would seriously call a family meeting and let your husband say to your chidlren , this is how I am feeling, I think its to much or whatever. without threatening to take it away, thats the important part. You have to remeber that these little humans deserve to have a say in their life. Then have your hubby ask why itsimportant to them? what their thoughts are on it , and go from there. Now I dont claim to have this all figured out, I most definitly do not lol, but this is what has worked in our family.
Brightest blessings and the best of luck
Sarah
Unschooling mama of five.
--- In
Schuyler
If he wants his daughters to go to bed without using the iphones at night, then let him put them to bed. Say something relatively neutral, like this is what works for me, but if you see a different way, why don't you implement that. Let him police the media that he's concerned about. Don't sabotage, don't set him up to fail, help him succeed if you can. But, I would allow him to work that issue out for himself. And if it isn't something he wants to do, ask him to let you do it the way you've figured out. Again, don't say it in a way that is about correct methodology, simply say, this is what works for me and the girls.
Schuyler
Schuyler
>________________________________[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>Because my husband says goodnight to the girls before they actually completely unwind and fall asleep, I can choose to uphold my husband's "5 more minutes of your video, then it's off" or I can let it go longer. I've been letting it go as long as it is not disturbing anyone. I've tried discussing with my husband the value of what they are watching and learning as well as how limiting media makes it more appealing to them. I've sent him Pam's article on the economics of restriction. I've told him about my college best friend who religiously watched TV throughout college -- she was not allowed to watch TV growing up.
>
>My husband has strong feelings on limiting our girls' media use. I feel that if I support his stance on it, what have been peaceful bedtimes for me will become stressful arguments over turning off the iPhone that I will have to enforce because my husband does not put the girls to bed. At the same time, when I don't enforce my husband's new rules/limits, I feel I'm undermining him.
>
>
Sandra Dodd
-=-Wow so you have yourself in a bit of a bind as far as how smooth the household runs. I totally understand that bind because I am presently in one myself actully. -=-
After fourteen years of reading about unschooling your family is still not together on it!?
I'm glad you came back to discussions, then, and I hope we can help.
-=- But what needs to be acknowledged I think here is that yes you have your ideas about the iphone, your hubby has his, but the missing link is that your children have theirs as well and their opinon is as important as yours and his.-=-
That's not true, as far as legalities are concerned. Parents have responsibilities that the government and that their other relatives, and their neighbors, sometimes, want them to exercise.
It's not great advice to say a child's opinion is as important as the parents'.
-=-. I know that your children are young, but I believe that even young children deserve a chance to speak their mind about whats happening. Its not always easy but often they have alot of very valuable things to say. I would seriously call a family meeting and let your husband say to your chidlren ....
In a family where communications are open, children speak their minds as a matter of course; it happens all the time.
Family meetings are problematical in tons of ways, and a situation in which it takes a family meeting for the wife to "let her husband" say something to the children could use more interactions between people all kinds of other times.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
After fourteen years of reading about unschooling your family is still not together on it!?
I'm glad you came back to discussions, then, and I hope we can help.
-=- But what needs to be acknowledged I think here is that yes you have your ideas about the iphone, your hubby has his, but the missing link is that your children have theirs as well and their opinon is as important as yours and his.-=-
That's not true, as far as legalities are concerned. Parents have responsibilities that the government and that their other relatives, and their neighbors, sometimes, want them to exercise.
It's not great advice to say a child's opinion is as important as the parents'.
-=-. I know that your children are young, but I believe that even young children deserve a chance to speak their mind about whats happening. Its not always easy but often they have alot of very valuable things to say. I would seriously call a family meeting and let your husband say to your chidlren ....
In a family where communications are open, children speak their minds as a matter of course; it happens all the time.
Family meetings are problematical in tons of ways, and a situation in which it takes a family meeting for the wife to "let her husband" say something to the children could use more interactions between people all kinds of other times.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
lukesmama2003
>In our house, my husband and I do different things to help our kids relax and go to sleep. Our boys are 1, 4, 6 and 8.5. As one example, I nurse the baby to sleep or wear in in a wrap and walk around the house/outside. If I am doing something with my older boys, my husband will take Hugo (1) to a quiet dark room and hang out with him, playing a little bit and then he will just hold him a comfy chair and watch TV together until he dozes off. So I think that each parent might have his/her own methods to accomplish the same thing. If it weren't about the media, would your husband be telling you what method to use? Or how to help your daughter sleep? For example, if you are nursing a baby/toddler to sleep, would he come in and announce that the baby has nursed for 20 minutes so it is time to unlatch that baby? Or that the bath is too long, or you can only read 1 book instead of 3?
> If he wants his daughters to go to bed without using the iphones at night, then let him put them to bed. Say something relatively neutral, like this is what works for me, but if you see a different way, why don't you implement that. Let him police the media that he's concerned about. Don't sabotage, don't set him up to fail, help him succeed if you can. But, I would allow him to work that issue out for himself. And if it isn't something he wants to do, ask him to let you do it the way you've figured out. Again, don't say it in a way that is about correct methodology, simply say, this is what works for me and the girls.
>
I am wondering if breaking it down into what "works" in partnering with your children to help them get to sleep rather than unlimited media vs. limited media? The what "works" will change over time anyway and be different for each child. If looking at it from that angle might help him feel less defensive than making it about correct way to unschooling?
And if that doesn't help then, yes, I would ask my husband to either watch and play with the younger one while I read to the older one (if that is what she wants to do) or vice versa so that you are able to help your girls to sleep peacefully. Or ask him if he would like to take over that sleepy time ritual all together. Otherwise he would be undermining your own worked out methods of helping your girls to sleep. Fighting over turning off media or reading only one book or whatever is not going to help anyone relax.
Karen
Meredith
catfish_friend <catfish_friend@...> wrote:
So it would seem that he sees the recent changes not so much as active decisions on your part as a slump which you're maybe trying to rationalize with crazy unschooling jargon. He may need some time to shift his perspective in that regard - to have confidence that this is something mindful you're doing, something you've thought about.
Keep in mind that he's going to get a Lot of "everyone knows" sort of parenting advice at work, if he has any co-workers. Stories about late night learning might help, and reminding him that, unlike other kids, y'all's don'g have to get up for school the next day.
http://sandradodd.com/latenightlearning
---Meredith
>****************
> My husband has been saying recently that he is concerned with the amount of TV and iPhone usage our 3 and 5.75 year old girls are having. He has said that he had been "letting things go" as a way of being sensitive to my needs and wants in how I want to parent as well as because I had an unexpected job loss and my grandmother had passed away. He didn't want to add to my stress by pressing the issue before.
So it would seem that he sees the recent changes not so much as active decisions on your part as a slump which you're maybe trying to rationalize with crazy unschooling jargon. He may need some time to shift his perspective in that regard - to have confidence that this is something mindful you're doing, something you've thought about.
>> My husband has strong feelings on limiting our girls' media use.What are his feelings and reasons? It may take time for his thoughts and feelings to change - time and the evidence of happy, healthy kids who aren't zoned out couch zombies. It could help him to talk about the things they're doing and learning when he's not there. If he's out working during the day, he's seeing them at the end of their day and missing a lot. Help him fill in the gaps - not in a "See! I Told You!" sort of way, but in ways that help him feel connected to his kids and sanguine about working all day to support what they're doing at home.
>> he feels they are up too late because they are overstimulated from watching videos right before bed.******************
Keep in mind that he's going to get a Lot of "everyone knows" sort of parenting advice at work, if he has any co-workers. Stories about late night learning might help, and reminding him that, unlike other kids, y'all's don'g have to get up for school the next day.
http://sandradodd.com/latenightlearning
---Meredith
Meredith
"Sarah" <sunflowermorning31@...> wrote:
Part of the problem could be that dad doesn't agree with that sentiment. If that's the case, it could be helpful for mom to start a conversation with dad about his childhood - when did he feel ignored, when did he feel like he had to sneak around and do things he wanted. It could also help to really listen to his thoughts and feelings and acknowledge they come from caring for his kids as well as fears for their well being. The catch is, "it could help" doesn't mean "it will instantly change his mind on the subject". Help in the sense of building up the team more, help dad feel valued and heard And help him have more empathy when he thinks about kids doing what they choose to do.
Wow, that could go wrong so many ways. Mainly, family meetings go wrong when they become ways for "the family" to override the needs (or desires or feelings) of some of the members of the family - and if One member of the family has a different view or different needs than the rest, he or she becomes the odd man out and loses. And then the whole family loses.
---Meredith
>But what needs to be acknowledged I think here is that yes you have your ideas about the iphone, your hubby has his, but the missing link is that your children have theirs as well and their opinon is as important as yours and his.****************
Part of the problem could be that dad doesn't agree with that sentiment. If that's the case, it could be helpful for mom to start a conversation with dad about his childhood - when did he feel ignored, when did he feel like he had to sneak around and do things he wanted. It could also help to really listen to his thoughts and feelings and acknowledge they come from caring for his kids as well as fears for their well being. The catch is, "it could help" doesn't mean "it will instantly change his mind on the subject". Help in the sense of building up the team more, help dad feel valued and heard And help him have more empathy when he thinks about kids doing what they choose to do.
>>I would seriously call a family meeting and let your husband say to your chidlren , this is how I am feeling, I think its to much or whatever.**************
Wow, that could go wrong so many ways. Mainly, family meetings go wrong when they become ways for "the family" to override the needs (or desires or feelings) of some of the members of the family - and if One member of the family has a different view or different needs than the rest, he or she becomes the odd man out and loses. And then the whole family loses.
---Meredith
Alysia
==If he wants his daughters to go to bed without using the iphones at night, then let him put them to bed.==
This is what we try to do. My husband is more concerned with when our boys go to bed so he's in charge of making sure that happens at what he considers to be a reasonable time.
I have a question surrounding this sort of thing, though. What if the other parent takes over and it becomes a big struggle and the kids are miserable but that parent won't let it go?
Alysia
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
This is what we try to do. My husband is more concerned with when our boys go to bed so he's in charge of making sure that happens at what he considers to be a reasonable time.
I have a question surrounding this sort of thing, though. What if the other parent takes over and it becomes a big struggle and the kids are miserable but that parent won't let it go?
Alysia
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
Try to get to an unschooling conferene or gathering so he can meet some dads and some older kids.
There might be something here that would help him in the meantime.
http://sandradodd.com/dads
Sandra
There might be something here that would help him in the meantime.
http://sandradodd.com/dads
Sandra
dezignarob
When I read this I wondered if it was truly about the use of media, and not something else. I wonder if your husband is seeing the kids slipping away into an independence that renders him less important in their lives. Maybe he is missing reading to them or connecting with them in some other way.
He might relax more about the electronics and about bed time if his needs for connection with his kids and wife were being met. Possibly he would see the value of the kids being on their electronics for a little while in the evening, if it freed up that time for some canoodling with his wife. Maybe he would like to spend more time playing with the kids earlier in the evening? (Sometimes that is not the case if he's tired after working.)
One useful thing might be to ask the kids to show him all about the games that they like and how they work. There's nothing like hearing a kid explain all about their games to dispel many fears, including that playing makes them isolated and uncommunicative.
Dads who spend time away all day at work often feel left out of the wonderful fun going on without them at home. Sometimes they react with a desire to control. Sometimes all it takes is listening to their ideas, and stroking their arms, and kissing their cheek, and realizing that it is just the desire to express their feelings coming out sounding like directives - and that there really isn't a concrete plan to take action and it was just venting about some underlying fears.
Robyn L. Coburn
www.iggyjingles.blogspot.com
www.robyncoburn.blogspot.com
He might relax more about the electronics and about bed time if his needs for connection with his kids and wife were being met. Possibly he would see the value of the kids being on their electronics for a little while in the evening, if it freed up that time for some canoodling with his wife. Maybe he would like to spend more time playing with the kids earlier in the evening? (Sometimes that is not the case if he's tired after working.)
One useful thing might be to ask the kids to show him all about the games that they like and how they work. There's nothing like hearing a kid explain all about their games to dispel many fears, including that playing makes them isolated and uncommunicative.
Dads who spend time away all day at work often feel left out of the wonderful fun going on without them at home. Sometimes they react with a desire to control. Sometimes all it takes is listening to their ideas, and stroking their arms, and kissing their cheek, and realizing that it is just the desire to express their feelings coming out sounding like directives - and that there really isn't a concrete plan to take action and it was just venting about some underlying fears.
Robyn L. Coburn
www.iggyjingles.blogspot.com
www.robyncoburn.blogspot.com
keetry
Yes, but when, if ever, do you decide that you need to step in and tell your partner to stop?
Over the years I have seen posts about how keeping the family in tact is more important than unschooling. One partner shouldn't be telling the other partner that s/he has to unschool if it's causing major discourse in the relationship.
So, what do you do if what your partner is doing not only isn't unschooling but is also causing much unhappiness and maybe even harm to the children and s/he won't accept any suggestions for doing things differently?
Alysia
Over the years I have seen posts about how keeping the family in tact is more important than unschooling. One partner shouldn't be telling the other partner that s/he has to unschool if it's causing major discourse in the relationship.
So, what do you do if what your partner is doing not only isn't unschooling but is also causing much unhappiness and maybe even harm to the children and s/he won't accept any suggestions for doing things differently?
Alysia
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
> Try to get to an unschooling conferene or gathering so he can meet some dads and some older kids.
>
> There might be something here that would help him in the meantime.
>
> http://sandradodd.com/dads
>
> Sandra
>
Sandra Dodd
-=-So, what do you do if what your partner is doing not only isn't unschooling but is also causing much unhappiness and maybe even harm to the children and s/he won't accept any suggestions for doing things differently?-=-
The other partner has as much right as you do. I suppose you do what you would do about it even if the kids were in school.
Deciding to unschool is a big deal. One partner couldn't decide to buy a yacht without the other's approval and assistance, and one partner couldn't decide to change religions and just announce to the other partner that the family was now Mormon / Moslem / Methodist (just for some of the M's).
Before anyone gets in a huff and considers for even a second that unschooling is worth a potential separation, review this, please:
http://sandradodd.com/separation
If a couple can't get along well enough to discuss unschooling, their kids aren't good candidates for unschooling. I'm sorry about that, but there's nothing I can do to change the world enough to make unschooling anyone's guaranteed right *at all,* in any way. It's a luxury, it's like building your own solar-heated home. Not just anyone can do it. We're here to try to help those who can, and there are lots of people who would be happy to tell you that anyone can do it, and it's your right to do it, but they're wrong.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
The other partner has as much right as you do. I suppose you do what you would do about it even if the kids were in school.
Deciding to unschool is a big deal. One partner couldn't decide to buy a yacht without the other's approval and assistance, and one partner couldn't decide to change religions and just announce to the other partner that the family was now Mormon / Moslem / Methodist (just for some of the M's).
Before anyone gets in a huff and considers for even a second that unschooling is worth a potential separation, review this, please:
http://sandradodd.com/separation
If a couple can't get along well enough to discuss unschooling, their kids aren't good candidates for unschooling. I'm sorry about that, but there's nothing I can do to change the world enough to make unschooling anyone's guaranteed right *at all,* in any way. It's a luxury, it's like building your own solar-heated home. Not just anyone can do it. We're here to try to help those who can, and there are lots of people who would be happy to tell you that anyone can do it, and it's your right to do it, but they're wrong.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Apr 12, 2012, at 12:10 PM, keetry wrote:
The fewer situations that your partner feels the need to change, the less conflict there will be. If you can change routines so that the situations that bother your partner happen at other times. For instance if the partner doesn't like TV, arrange for the kids to watch TV at other times and have them do other activities in the evening. (You can explain that to the kids as a kind favor to the partner.)
Rather than focusing on changing your partner -- which you can't without damaging the relationship -- focus on what you can change. Make life sweeter. Be more attentive. If the stress in the family is caused by stress at work, make home feel more like a haven. (Sometimes wanting to control kids is a sign of other parts of life feeling out of control.)
Sorry the answer's vague, but the question is vague.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> So, what do you do if what your partner is doing not only isn't unschoolingDo you want or enjoy your partner hovering over you as you interact with the kids, pulling you from the way you want to do things towards the way the partner wants? How effective is that or would that be in getting you to be more like your partner?
> but is also causing much unhappiness and maybe even harm to the children
> and s/he won't accept any suggestions for doing things differently?
The fewer situations that your partner feels the need to change, the less conflict there will be. If you can change routines so that the situations that bother your partner happen at other times. For instance if the partner doesn't like TV, arrange for the kids to watch TV at other times and have them do other activities in the evening. (You can explain that to the kids as a kind favor to the partner.)
Rather than focusing on changing your partner -- which you can't without damaging the relationship -- focus on what you can change. Make life sweeter. Be more attentive. If the stress in the family is caused by stress at work, make home feel more like a haven. (Sometimes wanting to control kids is a sign of other parts of life feeling out of control.)
Sorry the answer's vague, but the question is vague.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Meredith
"keetry" <keetry@...> wrote:
As much as possible, create an environment where you're not "stepping in" so much as "coming to the rescue" - where your partner doesn't see you as criticizing or correcting so much as saving him from being the bad guy. How you get there... that takes some time. Someone mentioned re-arranging things a bit at home to help reduce conflict and set your kids and partner up for better relationships - that's part of it. Loving up your partner and letting him know he's valued and appreciated is another part of it, as is understanding that he's going to be learning in his own way - and if you try to teach him, you may well undermine his process. And part of the process may be seeing that sometimes your husband is going overboard in an effort to rescue or protect You from dealing with something unpleasant.
---Meredith
>*****************
> Yes, but when, if ever, do you decide that you need to step in and tell your partner to stop?
As much as possible, create an environment where you're not "stepping in" so much as "coming to the rescue" - where your partner doesn't see you as criticizing or correcting so much as saving him from being the bad guy. How you get there... that takes some time. Someone mentioned re-arranging things a bit at home to help reduce conflict and set your kids and partner up for better relationships - that's part of it. Loving up your partner and letting him know he's valued and appreciated is another part of it, as is understanding that he's going to be learning in his own way - and if you try to teach him, you may well undermine his process. And part of the process may be seeing that sometimes your husband is going overboard in an effort to rescue or protect You from dealing with something unpleasant.
---Meredith
keetry
==Do you want or enjoy your partner hovering over you as you interact with the kids, pulling you from the way you want to do things towards the way the partner wants? How effective is that or would that be in getting you to be more like your partner?==
I didn't say anything about hovering (although my partner does hover over me sometimes and I don't like it one bit!). If the children are upset and crying and the adult is angry and yelling, that can be heard just about anywhere in the house. I don't have to be hovering or even on the same floor to know it's going on.
If I were at a point where I was so frustrated or angry with something concerning the children (or really anything, for that matter) that I was yelling or doing something else that was upsetting and scaring the children, I would want, expect, hope that my partner would step in and tell me to back off.
If it's ok and even desirable for him to do that for me, why is it not ok for me to do that for him?
Alysia
I didn't say anything about hovering (although my partner does hover over me sometimes and I don't like it one bit!). If the children are upset and crying and the adult is angry and yelling, that can be heard just about anywhere in the house. I don't have to be hovering or even on the same floor to know it's going on.
If I were at a point where I was so frustrated or angry with something concerning the children (or really anything, for that matter) that I was yelling or doing something else that was upsetting and scaring the children, I would want, expect, hope that my partner would step in and tell me to back off.
If it's ok and even desirable for him to do that for me, why is it not ok for me to do that for him?
Alysia
Pam Sorooshian
On Fri, Apr 13, 2012 at 8:56 AM, keetry <keetry@...> wrote:
If he doesn't want it, then he doesn't.
I think the very hardest thing for me to learn as a parent was to allow my
husband to work out his own relationship with the kids - for me not to try
to micromanage it to create the kind of relationship "I" wanted him to have
with them.
I had a huge influence on him, over time, but there were many times I bit
my tongue or wandered off to another room because I could see (or thought I
could see) what was coming with the way he was interacting.
I learned to use just a word or two and a tone that was helpful - not to
ever lecture at him.
I learned that he and the kids would often work things out their ways - and
it might involve more unhappiness in the moment than if I'd been
engineering it but that they developed skills that made their relationships
really really good as time passed.
When I stopped micromanaging, he'd ask me, "Okay, so what could I have done
differently," and EVEN then I used few words and was more casual than I
felt. I'd say to him, "She doesn't respond well to feeling ordered around."
That's it...no big discussion and I didn't rehash what had happened. Over
time, my husband and kids developed really warn and loving relationships.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> If it's ok and even desirable for him to do that for me, why is it not okYou said you'd want it. So -- you want it.
> for me to do that for him?
>
If he doesn't want it, then he doesn't.
I think the very hardest thing for me to learn as a parent was to allow my
husband to work out his own relationship with the kids - for me not to try
to micromanage it to create the kind of relationship "I" wanted him to have
with them.
I had a huge influence on him, over time, but there were many times I bit
my tongue or wandered off to another room because I could see (or thought I
could see) what was coming with the way he was interacting.
I learned to use just a word or two and a tone that was helpful - not to
ever lecture at him.
I learned that he and the kids would often work things out their ways - and
it might involve more unhappiness in the moment than if I'd been
engineering it but that they developed skills that made their relationships
really really good as time passed.
When I stopped micromanaging, he'd ask me, "Okay, so what could I have done
differently," and EVEN then I used few words and was more casual than I
felt. I'd say to him, "She doesn't respond well to feeling ordered around."
That's it...no big discussion and I didn't rehash what had happened. Over
time, my husband and kids developed really warn and loving relationships.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Apr 13, 2012, at 11:56 AM, keetry wrote:
If you're tackling a problem in the way you're sure is right and someone keeps making you do it in a way that you believe will have bad effects in the future, would you appreciate it?
If he's being shown against his will a "better" way, he's far more likely to shut down and resist. Humans, as a general rule, don't like their beliefs ripped from them and new ones pressed on them.
He is far more likely to pay attention -- as is anyone -- if he sees how you handle situations that he isn't part of. Then he can observe objectively, weighing and judging for himself.
This is all very much like what is suggested for kids.
If that doesn't make sense, maybe you can describe a couple of incidents and people can give you more specific examples of how it works.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> If it's ok and even desirable for him to do that for me,You're picturing yourself as being as "out of control" as he is which you'd want stopped. But he's not out of control. He's approaching the problem differently than you would. Admittedly his approach is not working well, but he's doing what he believes will work because it's what he knows.
> why is it not ok for me to do that for him?
If you're tackling a problem in the way you're sure is right and someone keeps making you do it in a way that you believe will have bad effects in the future, would you appreciate it?
If he's being shown against his will a "better" way, he's far more likely to shut down and resist. Humans, as a general rule, don't like their beliefs ripped from them and new ones pressed on them.
He is far more likely to pay attention -- as is anyone -- if he sees how you handle situations that he isn't part of. Then he can observe objectively, weighing and judging for himself.
> If I were at a point where I was so frustrated or angry with something concerning the children*That's* where you can put your energy. The more you can change the dynamics of the home so the situations that cause him to yell don't come up, the less he'll yell. The more you can prevent from happening in the first place, the better. Be more aware of his emotional state so you can change things before the atmosphere heads downhill. If somethings happens and he blows up, step in and remove the kids to do something more interesting so they aren't further irritating him.
This is all very much like what is suggested for kids.
If that doesn't make sense, maybe you can describe a couple of incidents and people can give you more specific examples of how it works.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-If I were at a point where I was so frustrated or angry with something concerning the children (or really anything, for that matter) that I was yelling or doing something else that was upsetting and scaring the children, I would want, expect, hope that my partner would step in and tell me to back off. -=-
That's what you need to tell your husband. Maybe in writing.
But not the last phrase.
"If I were at a point where I was so frustrated or angry with something concerning the children (or really anything, for that matter) that I was yelling or doing something else that was upsetting and scaring the children, I would want, expect, hope that you, as my partner, as their other parent, would step in and ... -=-
What would you want him to step in and do, really? As your partner?
To create a more loving and peaceful environment?
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
That's what you need to tell your husband. Maybe in writing.
But not the last phrase.
"If I were at a point where I was so frustrated or angry with something concerning the children (or really anything, for that matter) that I was yelling or doing something else that was upsetting and scaring the children, I would want, expect, hope that you, as my partner, as their other parent, would step in and ... -=-
What would you want him to step in and do, really? As your partner?
To create a more loving and peaceful environment?
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-When I stopped micromanaging, he'd ask me, "Okay, so what could I have done
differently," and EVEN then I used few words and was more casual than I
felt. I'd say to him, "She doesn't respond well to feeling ordered around."
That's it...no big discussion and I didn't rehash what had happened. Over-=-
Same at our house.
Keith would not always ask so nicely. Sometimes he would say "Okay--what?" when he knew that I had carefully not said anything, but that it hadn't gone well and I had had something I *could* have said.
Sometimes I would say "He already wasn't listening to you, and you kept going."
But yeah, as Pam says, one little bit of observation.
I think it's helpful, too, for you to say thanks, or to acknowledge when your partner does do something cool, helpful, or interesting. Not in a manipulative, condescending way, but in a honestly grateful adult-to-adult way.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
differently," and EVEN then I used few words and was more casual than I
felt. I'd say to him, "She doesn't respond well to feeling ordered around."
That's it...no big discussion and I didn't rehash what had happened. Over-=-
Same at our house.
Keith would not always ask so nicely. Sometimes he would say "Okay--what?" when he knew that I had carefully not said anything, but that it hadn't gone well and I had had something I *could* have said.
Sometimes I would say "He already wasn't listening to you, and you kept going."
But yeah, as Pam says, one little bit of observation.
I think it's helpful, too, for you to say thanks, or to acknowledge when your partner does do something cool, helpful, or interesting. Not in a manipulative, condescending way, but in a honestly grateful adult-to-adult way.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
I like Joyce's response better than mine:
*** If I were at a point where I was so frustrated or angry with something concerning the children ***
-=-*That's* where you can put your energy. The more you can change the dynamics of the home so the situations that cause him to yell don't come up, the less he'll yell. The more you can prevent from happening in the first place, the better. Be more aware of his emotional state so you can change things before the atmosphere heads downhill. If somethings happens and he blows up, step in and remove the kids to do something more interesting so they aren't further irritating him.
-=-This is all very much like what is suggested for kids.-=-
I liked Pam's, too.
Every time Pam or Joyce posts here, I am happy. There are other good contributors to these discussions, but if it weren't for Joyce and Pam, I wouldn't be having half as much fun.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
*** If I were at a point where I was so frustrated or angry with something concerning the children ***
-=-*That's* where you can put your energy. The more you can change the dynamics of the home so the situations that cause him to yell don't come up, the less he'll yell. The more you can prevent from happening in the first place, the better. Be more aware of his emotional state so you can change things before the atmosphere heads downhill. If somethings happens and he blows up, step in and remove the kids to do something more interesting so they aren't further irritating him.
-=-This is all very much like what is suggested for kids.-=-
I liked Pam's, too.
Every time Pam or Joyce posts here, I am happy. There are other good contributors to these discussions, but if it weren't for Joyce and Pam, I wouldn't be having half as much fun.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
catfish_friend
--- The fewer situations that your partner feels the need to change, the less conflict there will be. If you can change routines so that the situations that bother your partner happen at other times. For instance if the partner doesn't like TV, arrange for the kids to watch TV at other times and have them do other activities in the evening. (You can explain that to the kids as a kind favor to the partner.) ---
Thank you, for all the helpful responses! This reminder from Joyce (though in response to someone else) to help reduce conflict for my spouse really is relevant to me right now.
Yesterday, there was a thunderstorm as my family was getting ready to drive in horrible traffic to a free dress rehearsal of a professional modern ballet. My husband didn't really want to go and also felt it was unsafe to drive so far in the weather we were having. Considering him, and his concerns, I waited until the thunderstorm let up to a light rain and suggested that he stay home and do other things he had been putting off and I'd take the girls with me to the ballet. I spent all day out into the evening and my husband had a full day at home tackling his list of things he'd been wanting to do (including putting my office furniture together). When I got home with our girls, though my husband was eager to get them to bed "at a reasonable time", the girls were so inspired by the performance they saw, they performed for over an hour their own modern ballet for hubby and me.
I think it planted a seed with my girls to mention a couple times in a brief, nonchalant way this past week that Papa had concerns about their iPhone use at bedtime and that I wanted us to figure something out with that.
My husband may not be a radical unschooler, but he's academically an unschooler. Spontaneously, or perhaps, unconsciously, little things came together last night that opened up radical unschooling in a gentle way to my family. My husband was delighted to watch them dance, though it was "past their bedtime" and he didn't complain or argue about bedtimes or iPhones though they switched to their iPhones after their performance was done. I got a completed set of office furniture including a file cabinet that had been unassembled for several years now! Everyone went to bed content peacefully.
This is also a helpful reminder to me from Meredith:
((( Loving up your partner and letting him know he's valued and appreciated is another part of it, as is understanding that he's going to be learning in his own way - and if you try to teach him, you may well undermine his process. )))
I am seeing what my process has been moving towards Unschooling and I'm being impatient with my husband. I want him to be where I am with things. He's onboard with Unschooling, but not the radical part. As I appreciate him where he's at, as I appreciate my girls with where they're at, everyone is more peaceful and more joyful. There's less stress with acceptance and the opportunity to learn and grow is better in a peaceful, joyful and unstressed environment.
Thank you, everyone for your thoughtful responses! I'm still reading and thinking on them. So much to chew on! I'm ever so grateful how much I learn from you all!
Peace,
Ceci
Thank you, for all the helpful responses! This reminder from Joyce (though in response to someone else) to help reduce conflict for my spouse really is relevant to me right now.
Yesterday, there was a thunderstorm as my family was getting ready to drive in horrible traffic to a free dress rehearsal of a professional modern ballet. My husband didn't really want to go and also felt it was unsafe to drive so far in the weather we were having. Considering him, and his concerns, I waited until the thunderstorm let up to a light rain and suggested that he stay home and do other things he had been putting off and I'd take the girls with me to the ballet. I spent all day out into the evening and my husband had a full day at home tackling his list of things he'd been wanting to do (including putting my office furniture together). When I got home with our girls, though my husband was eager to get them to bed "at a reasonable time", the girls were so inspired by the performance they saw, they performed for over an hour their own modern ballet for hubby and me.
I think it planted a seed with my girls to mention a couple times in a brief, nonchalant way this past week that Papa had concerns about their iPhone use at bedtime and that I wanted us to figure something out with that.
My husband may not be a radical unschooler, but he's academically an unschooler. Spontaneously, or perhaps, unconsciously, little things came together last night that opened up radical unschooling in a gentle way to my family. My husband was delighted to watch them dance, though it was "past their bedtime" and he didn't complain or argue about bedtimes or iPhones though they switched to their iPhones after their performance was done. I got a completed set of office furniture including a file cabinet that had been unassembled for several years now! Everyone went to bed content peacefully.
This is also a helpful reminder to me from Meredith:
((( Loving up your partner and letting him know he's valued and appreciated is another part of it, as is understanding that he's going to be learning in his own way - and if you try to teach him, you may well undermine his process. )))
I am seeing what my process has been moving towards Unschooling and I'm being impatient with my husband. I want him to be where I am with things. He's onboard with Unschooling, but not the radical part. As I appreciate him where he's at, as I appreciate my girls with where they're at, everyone is more peaceful and more joyful. There's less stress with acceptance and the opportunity to learn and grow is better in a peaceful, joyful and unstressed environment.
Thank you, everyone for your thoughtful responses! I'm still reading and thinking on them. So much to chew on! I'm ever so grateful how much I learn from you all!
Peace,
Ceci