food choice - what am I doing wrong
melgqd
Hi all,
I have 2 boys 10 and 6 years old. We've been deschooling since last March.
My question is of the -what am I doing wrong- type. When we originally loosened the controls on food I feel like we went too fast and then back pedaled a bit with regard to sweets (didn't take it away just reduced a bit). In the last 3-4 months I've tried to say yes more and really be okay with letting go of all food controls. It has been going pretty well however the diets of both boys are getting increasingly narrow. My youngest eats no fruit or veg. except the occasional few bites of banana or lettuce. The last few weeks have been difficult (for me) because he has been requesting bowl after bowl of sugar. I have been thinking of the sugar cubes story and giving it to him.
My oldest eats a slightly more varied diet, but it is mostly bread, pasta and sweets w/ some fruit and a bit of dinner thrown in. I have tried offering monkey platters but most of them go uneaten. I ask them to pick things out at the store that they would like, but they still feel like they have little or no choices at home. I've read the advice of cooking yummy foods that they like and having them easily accessible and I would love to do that, but they don't seem to want or like most things that I can make or buy. Griffin often complains that he is hungry, but doesn't know what to eat. I wouldn't mind him eating mostly bread, seaweed snacks and cookies, but he complains of low energy. This has been a complaint for months. He rarely gets off the couch and doesn't like to go out or be outside. He says that he doesn't like to get up because he is tired and doesn't feel good. He has also said that he is unhappy with his appearance. He was always quite lean, but put on a good bit of weight when we loosened the controls on food. I was formerly quite controlling of sweets.
I am encouraged by the stories of the kids regulating their own diets and ending up with a variety of foods in them, but I'm not really seeing it happen here and my older son is unhappy.
My husband and I don't eat grains or much sugar. We've talked about our food choices but didn't try to make the kids eat our diet. I also try not to comment on their food choices (although I must admit I'm not always great at this).
I'm familiar with the idea that children can't learn when they are hungry and I'm afraid my oldest is suffering in that way. I've tried to offer or suggest foods with more lasting energy power as a way to combat his tiredness, but I feel like that put too much pressure on him.
So what do you think I'm doing wrong? I'm trying to be patient and let them control their diets, but at the same time I'm only seeing their diets get smaller and my oldest is tired and unhappy.
Thank you for reading,
Melissa
I have 2 boys 10 and 6 years old. We've been deschooling since last March.
My question is of the -what am I doing wrong- type. When we originally loosened the controls on food I feel like we went too fast and then back pedaled a bit with regard to sweets (didn't take it away just reduced a bit). In the last 3-4 months I've tried to say yes more and really be okay with letting go of all food controls. It has been going pretty well however the diets of both boys are getting increasingly narrow. My youngest eats no fruit or veg. except the occasional few bites of banana or lettuce. The last few weeks have been difficult (for me) because he has been requesting bowl after bowl of sugar. I have been thinking of the sugar cubes story and giving it to him.
My oldest eats a slightly more varied diet, but it is mostly bread, pasta and sweets w/ some fruit and a bit of dinner thrown in. I have tried offering monkey platters but most of them go uneaten. I ask them to pick things out at the store that they would like, but they still feel like they have little or no choices at home. I've read the advice of cooking yummy foods that they like and having them easily accessible and I would love to do that, but they don't seem to want or like most things that I can make or buy. Griffin often complains that he is hungry, but doesn't know what to eat. I wouldn't mind him eating mostly bread, seaweed snacks and cookies, but he complains of low energy. This has been a complaint for months. He rarely gets off the couch and doesn't like to go out or be outside. He says that he doesn't like to get up because he is tired and doesn't feel good. He has also said that he is unhappy with his appearance. He was always quite lean, but put on a good bit of weight when we loosened the controls on food. I was formerly quite controlling of sweets.
I am encouraged by the stories of the kids regulating their own diets and ending up with a variety of foods in them, but I'm not really seeing it happen here and my older son is unhappy.
My husband and I don't eat grains or much sugar. We've talked about our food choices but didn't try to make the kids eat our diet. I also try not to comment on their food choices (although I must admit I'm not always great at this).
I'm familiar with the idea that children can't learn when they are hungry and I'm afraid my oldest is suffering in that way. I've tried to offer or suggest foods with more lasting energy power as a way to combat his tiredness, but I feel like that put too much pressure on him.
So what do you think I'm doing wrong? I'm trying to be patient and let them control their diets, but at the same time I'm only seeing their diets get smaller and my oldest is tired and unhappy.
Thank you for reading,
Melissa
Schuyler
>>"I am encouraged by the stories of the kids regulating their owndiets and ending up with a variety of foods in them, but I'm not really
seeing it happen here and my older son is unhappy." and "My husband
and I don't eat grains or much sugar."<<
Contradict each other. Maybe contradict isn't the right word, but certainly don't go hand in hand. Your children won't blossom out in to a wide and varied diet if the options that they see easily available are largely devoid of grains and sugars. Talking about food choices is one thing, but really making them available, when your own diet is limited to non-grains and non-sugars (I'm assuming processed sugars? and not sugars in fruit or vegetables?) will take more effort than you may already be putting in. If your own diet is so constrained it will take effort to view a less constrained, more varied diet as healthy, as well.
>>The last few weeks have been difficult (for me) because he has beenrequesting bowl after bowl of sugar. I have been thinking of the sugar
cubes story and giving it to him.<<
Julie's sugar cube story is in a context that may be very different from yours. There was mild censure over one kind of food, sugar in cafes. Adding sugar cubes to the mix of Adam's day to day food choices gave him something to enjoy until he was sated and then move on from. Your own diet suggests that there have been greater limitations in place that you are moving away from, albeit with some discomfort.
When I was going through growth spurts, I would absolutely crave sugar. I would take white bread and press it flat and then pour sugar on it, carefully folding the bread around the sugar and eat this wonderfully sweet treat over and over again. When I was 12 my peers would bring unprepared jello in baggies to school and eat it during the day. If either of your children is growing, then sugar is going to have a role to play in helping them to do so.
So when he asks for sugar, give him sugar, but when he isn't asking, give him cake, or bananas and apples and pears and strawberries and angel food cake torn up to dip in a melted chocolate fondue. Or get hazelnut and chocolate spread, nutella is one brand, I'm sure there are others, and make him toast with nutella, or bagels with nutella. Or get caramel dip and do the same kind of fondue spread with that. And add a few extra things to the side of these spreads, put carrots and celery out, get breadsticks and hummus and put that on the platter, too. And if they don't get eaten, that's alright, don't worry about it too much. Just up what you are offering before they are asking. If they like cheese, you could offer a cheese fondue. You could make macaroni and cheese as a side dish. You could make crepes and fill them with chocolate and bananas and offer them before they know that they are hungry. And if they like those crepes, you could try crepe
variants. Try cheese in crepes, try ricotta cheese and applesauce. And on and on, move from one kind of food, slowly, seamlessly to another. See it as the most wonderful exploration of their palates. Help them to find a variety of foods that they love.
>> I've tried to offer or suggest foods with more lasting energy power as a way to combat his tiredness, but I feel like that put too much pressure on him.<<If you see offering him food as pressuring, than your own motives may be suspect. I offer food to Simon and Linnaea if I see them flagging and I don't feel any sense that I am pressuring them. I'm helping them. Just like when David brings me something to eat if he notices I'm hungry is him being thoughtful and kind and giving me a gift. He's not pressuring me, he's loving me. If you feel that you can't be honest about food, that food has become so loaded with guilt and ulterior motivation in your own mind, you are going to have to work hard to overcome that. Fill your cupboards with foods that make your children happy and hungry and offer them without any kind of recrimination, any kind of sense that getting heavier or sleepier is to do with anything other than the fact that at 10 lots of boys get chubby and slower moving as they prepare to push into big periods of growth spurts. The loosening of food restrictions and your son's gaining of weight may be
related, but they may not be, you need to step away from the assumption. Let it go, breathe through it, and when you see it rising up in your mind, push it away and go prepare something wonderfully yummy and enticing for your children to enjoy.
Schuyler
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
CarenKH
Some kids are very sensitive to any kind of disapproval, or pushing. If your actions are in line with giving the kids full choice, but you're fretting about their choices, wishing they'd make different ones, and worrying, they'll pick up on that, and push against it by holding on to what they can.
My youngest went through a phase last year or the year before where he wanted ice cream - lots and lots and lots of ice cream. He did not want frozen fruit, or icy smoothies, he wanted ice cream, with real cream and real sugar and more sugar in the flavors.
I was worried at first - "Oh, no! This is emotional eating. He's unhappy and something's wrong, and he's eating to dull the pain!" He is one who is particularly sensitive to control and pushing, so I worked hard to NOT have a hint of that disapproving energy when he was around, and when I was serving up big bowl after big bowl. I worked to drop my worry completely - and what helped with that was taking the advice of people on this list and elsewhere, Sandra Dodd in particular: Look at your child. Really see him.
What I saw was that he was very, very happy. He woke up exuberant, he was engaged and laughing, and would frequently say things like, "I love my life!" "Thanks for unschooling!" etc. I finally got to a point where I said, "If he's using ice cream as self-medication... it's working! And who am I to try to control what he finds that works for him?"
Of course, just a few weeks after that, he grew about six inches in height in a very short time. He wasn't self-medicating, he was eating! Eating what he felt like his body needed. I didn't save the link, but I recently saw the headline of an article that talked about fat being beneficial, especially to growing bodies.
If your son is unhappy, don't look to his food choices as the cause. Look to see what else you can do to help him find things that bring a smile to his face, that help him be engaged.
Do your best to completely and totally accept the choices he's making. Do better than "trying not to comment". Drop any judgments you have about food - hard, I know!
Are you happy? Are you engaged, connected with your kids, and enthusiastic? That would be a place to start, too.
peace,
Caren
My youngest went through a phase last year or the year before where he wanted ice cream - lots and lots and lots of ice cream. He did not want frozen fruit, or icy smoothies, he wanted ice cream, with real cream and real sugar and more sugar in the flavors.
I was worried at first - "Oh, no! This is emotional eating. He's unhappy and something's wrong, and he's eating to dull the pain!" He is one who is particularly sensitive to control and pushing, so I worked hard to NOT have a hint of that disapproving energy when he was around, and when I was serving up big bowl after big bowl. I worked to drop my worry completely - and what helped with that was taking the advice of people on this list and elsewhere, Sandra Dodd in particular: Look at your child. Really see him.
What I saw was that he was very, very happy. He woke up exuberant, he was engaged and laughing, and would frequently say things like, "I love my life!" "Thanks for unschooling!" etc. I finally got to a point where I said, "If he's using ice cream as self-medication... it's working! And who am I to try to control what he finds that works for him?"
Of course, just a few weeks after that, he grew about six inches in height in a very short time. He wasn't self-medicating, he was eating! Eating what he felt like his body needed. I didn't save the link, but I recently saw the headline of an article that talked about fat being beneficial, especially to growing bodies.
If your son is unhappy, don't look to his food choices as the cause. Look to see what else you can do to help him find things that bring a smile to his face, that help him be engaged.
Do your best to completely and totally accept the choices he's making. Do better than "trying not to comment". Drop any judgments you have about food - hard, I know!
Are you happy? Are you engaged, connected with your kids, and enthusiastic? That would be a place to start, too.
peace,
Caren
dkjsv05
H Melissa,
~" When we originally loosened the controls on food I feel like we went too fast and then back pedaled a bit with regard to sweets (didn't take it away just reduced a bit). In the last 3-4 months I've tried to say yes more and really be okay with letting go of all food controls. It has been going pretty well however the diets of both boys are getting increasingly narrow."~
**************************************************
As someone who was raised in a very controlled food environment I hear a lot of contradiction in your post. Maybe your children are hearing it too.
What do your boys like to eat? Don't answer here but maybe make a list of what you see them eating and give them more of that.
~"My oldest eats a slightly more varied diet, but it is mostly bread, pasta and sweets w/ some fruit and a bit of dinner thrown in. I have tried offering monkey platters but most of them go uneaten. I ask them to pick things out at the store that they would like, but they still feel like they have little or no choices at home. "~
Instead of waiting for them to pick out food from the store maybe fill your cart with comfort foods you remember loving as a child that have been "off limits". Foods that you wouldn't usually buy like chips, cookies and candy. Then offer those foods *without guilt* on a monkey platter.
~" He has also said that he is unhappy with his appearance. He was always quite lean, but put on a good bit of weight when we loosened the controls on food. "~
Again I am wondering how much he is picking up on your disappointment in his food choices. Why does he think he's put on "a good deal of weight"?
~"I've tried to offer or suggest foods with more lasting energy power."~
And I wonder how much of his "I'm tired" comes from *talking* to much about food.
Finally after *years* of baggage about food I can listen to my own bodies needs. Since we started radical unschooling I am losing weight by giving in to what I want. I myself have found out once I stop depriving myself I no longer need to binge on foods. I am more healthy now eating "junk" food then I was being a vegetarian by force.
~"I feel like that put too much pressure on him.~"
If you feel this way then more likely you are.
Kim
~" When we originally loosened the controls on food I feel like we went too fast and then back pedaled a bit with regard to sweets (didn't take it away just reduced a bit). In the last 3-4 months I've tried to say yes more and really be okay with letting go of all food controls. It has been going pretty well however the diets of both boys are getting increasingly narrow."~
**************************************************
As someone who was raised in a very controlled food environment I hear a lot of contradiction in your post. Maybe your children are hearing it too.
What do your boys like to eat? Don't answer here but maybe make a list of what you see them eating and give them more of that.
~"My oldest eats a slightly more varied diet, but it is mostly bread, pasta and sweets w/ some fruit and a bit of dinner thrown in. I have tried offering monkey platters but most of them go uneaten. I ask them to pick things out at the store that they would like, but they still feel like they have little or no choices at home. "~
Instead of waiting for them to pick out food from the store maybe fill your cart with comfort foods you remember loving as a child that have been "off limits". Foods that you wouldn't usually buy like chips, cookies and candy. Then offer those foods *without guilt* on a monkey platter.
~" He has also said that he is unhappy with his appearance. He was always quite lean, but put on a good bit of weight when we loosened the controls on food. "~
Again I am wondering how much he is picking up on your disappointment in his food choices. Why does he think he's put on "a good deal of weight"?
~"I've tried to offer or suggest foods with more lasting energy power."~
And I wonder how much of his "I'm tired" comes from *talking* to much about food.
Finally after *years* of baggage about food I can listen to my own bodies needs. Since we started radical unschooling I am losing weight by giving in to what I want. I myself have found out once I stop depriving myself I no longer need to binge on foods. I am more healthy now eating "junk" food then I was being a vegetarian by force.
~"I feel like that put too much pressure on him.~"
If you feel this way then more likely you are.
Kim
Meredith
"melgqd" <boisei@...> wrote:
What about bread with nut butter, or butter butter spread thick and then with a layer of something sweet like sugar or honey? And home-made cookies can include nuts or nut butter, or be made with nut meal replacing some of the flour. You can also make a quick and easy sweet with nut butter and sugar, or cream cheese and sugar - or plain old butter and sugar, one of my childhood staples. All those give lots of fast energy along with the fats and proteins kids need for staying power - fats especially. We (Americans - I don't know if you are) tend to over-focus on proteins and shy away from fat, but kids need a lot of fat to power their nervous and endocrine systems.
I don't have one of those kids. My daughter has a very conservative palate even at 10 - to the point we take notice when she tries a variation on her usual favorites. Last week: egg noodles! The biggest source of variety in her diet is in breakfast cereals - she's veeerry sensitive to appearance and texture.
---Meredith
>I wouldn't mind him eating mostly bread, seaweed snacks and cookies, but he complains of low energy.***********
What about bread with nut butter, or butter butter spread thick and then with a layer of something sweet like sugar or honey? And home-made cookies can include nuts or nut butter, or be made with nut meal replacing some of the flour. You can also make a quick and easy sweet with nut butter and sugar, or cream cheese and sugar - or plain old butter and sugar, one of my childhood staples. All those give lots of fast energy along with the fats and proteins kids need for staying power - fats especially. We (Americans - I don't know if you are) tend to over-focus on proteins and shy away from fat, but kids need a lot of fat to power their nervous and endocrine systems.
>>My youngest eats no fruit or veg.Does he drink juice? Will he take a vitamin? Low energy can be from so many things! Do your kids like commercial breakfast cereals? Those can be a real boon, since they're all loaded up with vitamins and minerals and they're easy for kids to help themselves - as well as easy to mix up into a sweet snack mix to set out next to a child who is busy but sedentary.
> I am encouraged by the stories of the kids regulating their own diets and ending up with a variety of foods in them****************
I don't have one of those kids. My daughter has a very conservative palate even at 10 - to the point we take notice when she tries a variation on her usual favorites. Last week: egg noodles! The biggest source of variety in her diet is in breakfast cereals - she's veeerry sensitive to appearance and texture.
---Meredith
Julie
> > I am encouraged by the stories of the kids regulating their own diets and ending up with a variety of foods in them------------------------
> ****************
>
> I don't have one of those kids. My daughter has a very conservative palate even at 10 - to the point we take notice when she tries a variation on her usual favorites. Last week: egg noodles! The biggest source of variety in her diet is in breakfast cereals - she's veeerry sensitive to appearance and texture.
>
I have 3 kids and they all have narrow, bland palettes and sweet toothes. They are 6, 4, and 2. The youngest seemed to start off a more adventurous eater than the others, but she's narrowing down as well, although she'll eat the odd pickle now and then.
None of my kids have ever eaten a vegetable. Not one. Not even puréed baby food because I've never spoon fed them (unless they ask me too, and I offer them bites of my food, but I've never set out to feed them a whole meal). They went from nursing to finger foods to feeding themselves. I've offered vegetables lots of times - snacks, monkey platters, in a meal, etc. They use vegetables as a scaffold for eating ranch dressing or hummus, but won't take a bite regardless of raw, cooked, sauced, cheesed, mixed in with other stuff, etc. I can't stand vegetables either, so I can empathize and
that's why I never forced the issue. My husband is a big sald eater and they never mooch off his plate for that. I like summer salads sometimes. My husband jokes that the kids are 50% Pringles and %50 doritos because I ate a lot of that during pregnancy.
I'd say we're a pretty happy, healthy, and energetic family. The kids are growing great and I try not to worry.
Julie
>
wtexans
===I'm familiar with the idea that children can't learn when they are hungry and I'm afraid my oldest is suffering in that way.===
It sounds like you're defining "learning" from a schooly perspective. Lying on the couch and feeling tired doesn't mean learning isn't happening. Even if he's lying there in total silence and no one else is in the room, even if he's not reading or gaming or listening to music or drawing or futzing around with Legos or doing a puzzle or whatever, he's still thinking!! And thinking and learning go hand in hand.
My kiddo recently ate something that made his tummy quite unhappy, and I found him stretched out on his bed -- he'd been there a while but I didn't know it. He made the connection between the fish & the crummy tummy, so he learned food can sometimes be bad or otherwise not agree with us. He learned that when feeling queasy, he preferred to be stretched out on his bed rather than sitting in a chair or gaming. He learned that Pepto can settle an upset tummy. And those are only the things *I* know he learned during that time he was lying on his bed -- I don't know what was going through his brain the whole time he was there, and what other "ah-ha" moments he had. I don't know what tidbits he picked up while watching tv while he was lying there, or what interesting things he read in the manga series he was reading while the tv was going in the background.
Feeling tired and hungry can sure make someone cranky, and it can, for some people, make it challenging to be as "on the ball" as they might normally be, but thinking still happens, and learning still happens.
Glenda
It sounds like you're defining "learning" from a schooly perspective. Lying on the couch and feeling tired doesn't mean learning isn't happening. Even if he's lying there in total silence and no one else is in the room, even if he's not reading or gaming or listening to music or drawing or futzing around with Legos or doing a puzzle or whatever, he's still thinking!! And thinking and learning go hand in hand.
My kiddo recently ate something that made his tummy quite unhappy, and I found him stretched out on his bed -- he'd been there a while but I didn't know it. He made the connection between the fish & the crummy tummy, so he learned food can sometimes be bad or otherwise not agree with us. He learned that when feeling queasy, he preferred to be stretched out on his bed rather than sitting in a chair or gaming. He learned that Pepto can settle an upset tummy. And those are only the things *I* know he learned during that time he was lying on his bed -- I don't know what was going through his brain the whole time he was there, and what other "ah-ha" moments he had. I don't know what tidbits he picked up while watching tv while he was lying there, or what interesting things he read in the manga series he was reading while the tv was going in the background.
Feeling tired and hungry can sure make someone cranky, and it can, for some people, make it challenging to be as "on the ball" as they might normally be, but thinking still happens, and learning still happens.
Glenda
wtexans
===I am encouraged by the stories of the kids regulating their own diets and ending up with a variety of foods in them, but I'm not really seeing it happen here and my older son is unhappy.===
But it's only been 3-4 months since you've been saying "yes" more & trying to let go of being controlling of what they eat. That's not long when compared to how long your boys' diets were more restricted.
Also, you've loosened control once before but then backpedaled (your term) about sweets . . . so your boys may be waiting for the other shoe to drop and for the sweets to begin to be restricted more. Keep in mind they only have past experience as a reference; they aren't inside your head knowing what your thoughts and plans are. You may tell them you're not going to restrict sweets again, but they may not trust that to be true.
===he complains of low energy. This has been a complaint for months. He rarely gets off the couch and doesn't like to go out or be outside. He says that he doesn't like to get up because he is tired and doesn't feel good. He has also said that he is unhappy with his appearance.===
If he's going through a growth spurt, or about to, he may not be eating enough, which can contribute to that tired feeling.
I like someone's suggestion of making cookies with nut butter and/or nut flour. Another idea is quick breads that have a sweet taste to them, like banana bread -- banana bread's good toasted with peanut butter smeared on it. Homemade flatbread is easy to make, as are homemade flour tortillas. Flour tortillas with butter, sugar, & cinnamon rolled up inside are tasty & filling; a warm tortilla with peanut butter inside is another idea.
I'd also like to suggest coconut flour -- it's high protein and high fiber, and a little goes a long way. It can be used as the only flour in a recipe, but because it's so dense it might be easier to find a recipe that uses it in conjunction with another flour. Coconut flour pancakes might be worth trying -- you get the high protein + high fiber, then the syrup would provide the sweet. You could caramelize some bananas to go alongside.
I've been keeping meat-n-bone broth going in my crockpot and sipping on it all day -- I'm doing it to help with some health issues that happen to have a side effect of no energy, and am finding it extremely filling and nourishing and I have so much more energy. So maybe that's something your son would be willing to try, if you strain it really well and it's smooth and easy to drink. You could add an egg to make it sort of like a hot pot, if that would interest him. Or cook some interesting-to-him noodles and stir them in.
What about a variety of nuts? I brought home salted roasted pistachios in the shell one day, never having tried them. I didn't like them but my son loves them! I make an effort to go down all the grocery store aisles and bring home a new thing or three that might interest my son and hubby.
If your boys like chicken, I made homemade chicken nuggets for my son last night and they were a huge hit. And they were SUPER easy to make. I adapted them to fit his taste buds, which meant I only used flour, egg, and S&P -- no other seasonings or spices. Here's the recipe: http://homecookinginmontana.blogspot.com/2011/10/homemade-chicken-nuggetswith-honey.html.
Food issues aside, maybe he's feeling bored with his life right now. If he doesn't want to get out, bring the outside in. If the weather allows, open some windows. Bring in some flowers. Gather up sticks and rocks and things and pile them in a bowl. Make sure as much sunlight as possible is streaming in during the day (this is a huge thing for me when I'm feeling uninspired to do anything).
Bring some new things into your house and strew them around. "New" doesn't necessarily mean "go spend a lot of money". Go by the thrift store and grab: puzzles, games, record albums, interesting hats, crutches, an old tv/radio/telephone/etc., and so forth. Things that can be dismantled might interest him, and older radios and phones can be good for that. Don't bring them home and ignore them or wait for him to do something with them -- YOU take the initiative and start puttering around with them. Start a puzzle, or sit down on the floor of the living room and start taking an old radio or phone apart, or decorate the crutches and hobble in on them. Grab some Nerf guns and start a Nerf war. Make an indoors camp-out in the living room -- make a tent (or bring in a tent), make Smores, tell ghost stories (or not-ghost stories!), etc. Sometimes it can be difficult to get out of that "stuck" mode -- being able to join in on what someone's doing can help, or even observing rather than joining in.
As for him feeling unhappy with his appearance, be sure he has clothes that fit comfortably. Don't ask him, just go get him new clothes (including underwear). I know when my son went through a big growth spurt, he didn't realize how snug his clothes had gotten until I brought home new stuff, including underwear, and he noticed the new clothes gave him breathing room!
Maybe he'd be interested in a mohawk, or blue hair, or straightening his hair if it's wavy or curly.
Maybe he'd like to try a "style", like goth or steampunk or whatever else is current.
Glenda
But it's only been 3-4 months since you've been saying "yes" more & trying to let go of being controlling of what they eat. That's not long when compared to how long your boys' diets were more restricted.
Also, you've loosened control once before but then backpedaled (your term) about sweets . . . so your boys may be waiting for the other shoe to drop and for the sweets to begin to be restricted more. Keep in mind they only have past experience as a reference; they aren't inside your head knowing what your thoughts and plans are. You may tell them you're not going to restrict sweets again, but they may not trust that to be true.
===he complains of low energy. This has been a complaint for months. He rarely gets off the couch and doesn't like to go out or be outside. He says that he doesn't like to get up because he is tired and doesn't feel good. He has also said that he is unhappy with his appearance.===
If he's going through a growth spurt, or about to, he may not be eating enough, which can contribute to that tired feeling.
I like someone's suggestion of making cookies with nut butter and/or nut flour. Another idea is quick breads that have a sweet taste to them, like banana bread -- banana bread's good toasted with peanut butter smeared on it. Homemade flatbread is easy to make, as are homemade flour tortillas. Flour tortillas with butter, sugar, & cinnamon rolled up inside are tasty & filling; a warm tortilla with peanut butter inside is another idea.
I'd also like to suggest coconut flour -- it's high protein and high fiber, and a little goes a long way. It can be used as the only flour in a recipe, but because it's so dense it might be easier to find a recipe that uses it in conjunction with another flour. Coconut flour pancakes might be worth trying -- you get the high protein + high fiber, then the syrup would provide the sweet. You could caramelize some bananas to go alongside.
I've been keeping meat-n-bone broth going in my crockpot and sipping on it all day -- I'm doing it to help with some health issues that happen to have a side effect of no energy, and am finding it extremely filling and nourishing and I have so much more energy. So maybe that's something your son would be willing to try, if you strain it really well and it's smooth and easy to drink. You could add an egg to make it sort of like a hot pot, if that would interest him. Or cook some interesting-to-him noodles and stir them in.
What about a variety of nuts? I brought home salted roasted pistachios in the shell one day, never having tried them. I didn't like them but my son loves them! I make an effort to go down all the grocery store aisles and bring home a new thing or three that might interest my son and hubby.
If your boys like chicken, I made homemade chicken nuggets for my son last night and they were a huge hit. And they were SUPER easy to make. I adapted them to fit his taste buds, which meant I only used flour, egg, and S&P -- no other seasonings or spices. Here's the recipe: http://homecookinginmontana.blogspot.com/2011/10/homemade-chicken-nuggetswith-honey.html.
Food issues aside, maybe he's feeling bored with his life right now. If he doesn't want to get out, bring the outside in. If the weather allows, open some windows. Bring in some flowers. Gather up sticks and rocks and things and pile them in a bowl. Make sure as much sunlight as possible is streaming in during the day (this is a huge thing for me when I'm feeling uninspired to do anything).
Bring some new things into your house and strew them around. "New" doesn't necessarily mean "go spend a lot of money". Go by the thrift store and grab: puzzles, games, record albums, interesting hats, crutches, an old tv/radio/telephone/etc., and so forth. Things that can be dismantled might interest him, and older radios and phones can be good for that. Don't bring them home and ignore them or wait for him to do something with them -- YOU take the initiative and start puttering around with them. Start a puzzle, or sit down on the floor of the living room and start taking an old radio or phone apart, or decorate the crutches and hobble in on them. Grab some Nerf guns and start a Nerf war. Make an indoors camp-out in the living room -- make a tent (or bring in a tent), make Smores, tell ghost stories (or not-ghost stories!), etc. Sometimes it can be difficult to get out of that "stuck" mode -- being able to join in on what someone's doing can help, or even observing rather than joining in.
As for him feeling unhappy with his appearance, be sure he has clothes that fit comfortably. Don't ask him, just go get him new clothes (including underwear). I know when my son went through a big growth spurt, he didn't realize how snug his clothes had gotten until I brought home new stuff, including underwear, and he noticed the new clothes gave him breathing room!
Maybe he'd be interested in a mohawk, or blue hair, or straightening his hair if it's wavy or curly.
Maybe he'd like to try a "style", like goth or steampunk or whatever else is current.
Glenda
Sandra Dodd
-=-I like someone's suggestion of making cookies with nut butter and/or nut flour. Another idea is quick breads that have a sweet taste to them, like banana bread -- banana bread's good toasted with peanut butter smeared on it. Homemade flatbread is easy to make, as are homemade flour tortillas. Flour tortillas with butter, sugar, & cinnamon rolled up inside are tasty & filling; a warm tortilla with peanut butter inside is another idea. -=-
BUT...
If the mom makes something not too sweet, blatantly "healthy," and then gets pissy that the kid doesn't want it, it cancels out every bit of potential advantage AND damages the relationship and any progress toward calm-and-better.
I remember the carob cakes, carob cookies, carob anything from the late 1960's and early 1970's. Carob does NOT taste anything like chocolate, and no matter how many people say so it doesn't make it so. Just turning something brown doesn't make it chocolaty (OR healthy).
The modern equivalents are no better than carob as a substitute for chocolate.
Contortion and manipulation don't taste good, nor is it healthy to eat in fear and shame.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
BUT...
If the mom makes something not too sweet, blatantly "healthy," and then gets pissy that the kid doesn't want it, it cancels out every bit of potential advantage AND damages the relationship and any progress toward calm-and-better.
I remember the carob cakes, carob cookies, carob anything from the late 1960's and early 1970's. Carob does NOT taste anything like chocolate, and no matter how many people say so it doesn't make it so. Just turning something brown doesn't make it chocolaty (OR healthy).
The modern equivalents are no better than carob as a substitute for chocolate.
Contortion and manipulation don't taste good, nor is it healthy to eat in fear and shame.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
chris ester
On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 12:48 AM, Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
I used to use sugar to "manipulate" my son into eating. My son started out
low birth weight with no, really I am not exaggerating, NO body fat. He
was so underweight as an infant that he would become too weak to eat. I
used to give him sugary fennel seed tea (to help him with his gas that also
caused problems) to get him hungry enough to breast feed. We introduced
solids (a banana) when he was 3 months because he grabbed it and ate it.
When he got to be a toddler, I would add strawberry syrup to soy milk to
get him to drink it for the protein and B-12. I put apple sauce and
cinnamon into his cereal to tempt him to eat. I felt lucky that he didn't
have feeding issues centered around textures or allergies and would eat
things that are sweet. I put fruit in almost everything, with sugar and
spices. Think glazed carrots, honeyed peas, sweet potatoes with brown
sugar and cinnamon, pancakes with sweetened fried bananas, french toast
fingers with maple syrup, and the list could go on. I made lots of quick
breads with rich whole sugar and organic butter or coconut oil or anything
that wasn't hydrogenated. All of these foods were actually pretty
nutritious albeit sweet.
When he was three I started giving him a vegan, organic multivitamin that
contained zinc and this helped to improve his appetite. But until he was
4, I had to make sure that he ate every couple of hours or he would get
lethargic and weak.
Now that he is almost 16 he has a healthy, balanced appetite. He actually
doesn't eat a lot of sugar, though I do make sure to keep snacks in the
house. He loves to eat greens and any other vegetable in a salad. He is
very robust, but not heavy and he is now very active, with no lingering
effects from his birth issues.
Incidentally, he made it up to "normal" size by the time he was 9 months,
when it often takes until a child is 3 years and he was on target
developmentally (for what that is worth) from 6 months on. So, I say,
"Yay, sugar!" because it probably saved my son's life. Or at least made
things easier on him and his parents.
Chris
> **I agree with you on this Sandra.
> >>>BUT...
>
> If the mom makes something not too sweet, blatantly "healthy," and then
> gets pissy that the kid doesn't want it, it cancels out every bit of
> potential advantage AND damages the relationship and any progress toward
> calm-and-better.
>
> I remember the carob cakes, carob cookies, carob anything from the late
> 1960's and early 1970's. Carob does NOT taste anything like chocolate, and
> no matter how many people say so it doesn't make it so. Just turning
> something brown doesn't make it chocolaty (OR healthy).
>
> The modern equivalents are no better than carob as a substitute for
> chocolate.
>
> Contortion and manipulation don't taste good, nor is it healthy to eat in
> fear and shame.
>
> Sandra<<<<<
>
I used to use sugar to "manipulate" my son into eating. My son started out
low birth weight with no, really I am not exaggerating, NO body fat. He
was so underweight as an infant that he would become too weak to eat. I
used to give him sugary fennel seed tea (to help him with his gas that also
caused problems) to get him hungry enough to breast feed. We introduced
solids (a banana) when he was 3 months because he grabbed it and ate it.
When he got to be a toddler, I would add strawberry syrup to soy milk to
get him to drink it for the protein and B-12. I put apple sauce and
cinnamon into his cereal to tempt him to eat. I felt lucky that he didn't
have feeding issues centered around textures or allergies and would eat
things that are sweet. I put fruit in almost everything, with sugar and
spices. Think glazed carrots, honeyed peas, sweet potatoes with brown
sugar and cinnamon, pancakes with sweetened fried bananas, french toast
fingers with maple syrup, and the list could go on. I made lots of quick
breads with rich whole sugar and organic butter or coconut oil or anything
that wasn't hydrogenated. All of these foods were actually pretty
nutritious albeit sweet.
When he was three I started giving him a vegan, organic multivitamin that
contained zinc and this helped to improve his appetite. But until he was
4, I had to make sure that he ate every couple of hours or he would get
lethargic and weak.
Now that he is almost 16 he has a healthy, balanced appetite. He actually
doesn't eat a lot of sugar, though I do make sure to keep snacks in the
house. He loves to eat greens and any other vegetable in a salad. He is
very robust, but not heavy and he is now very active, with no lingering
effects from his birth issues.
Incidentally, he made it up to "normal" size by the time he was 9 months,
when it often takes until a child is 3 years and he was on target
developmentally (for what that is worth) from 6 months on. So, I say,
"Yay, sugar!" because it probably saved my son's life. Or at least made
things easier on him and his parents.
Chris
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
wtexans
===Contortion and manipulation don't taste good===
I agree.
I'm not suggesting to offer banana bread w/peanut butter in place of a bowl of ice cream if ice cream is what's been asked for. I'd give the ice cream.
But if my kiddo was low on energy and hungry and wanted something sweet but didn't know what, if I had banana bread & PB on hand I would include those in the list of suggestions we came up with as we looked around the pantry and fridge to see what was available. Ditto if we had tortillas -- a tortilla with butter, sugar, & cinnamon can be as sweet as you want it to be.
===If the mom makes something not too sweet, blatantly "healthy," and then gets pissy that the kid doesn't want it, it cancels out every bit of potential advantage AND damages the relationship and any progress toward calm-and-better===
I agree with that, too.
I should clarify that the suggestions I made were not foods to replace things like ice cream, brownies, rice krispie treats, candy bars, and so forth, if those are what a kid is wanting -- those kinds of sweets are freely available in our house.
But I also offer different kinds of sweet tastes at other times -- on a monkey platter, or left in a common area for whoever wants it, or as "I'm making me 'x', do you want some too?".
What's happened with us is that my son doesn't define "sweet" only as candy bars, ice cream, brownies, marshmallows, etc. Sometimes those are exactly the kind of sweet he wants, but other times he'll ask for toast with butter & jelly, or pancakes with syrup, or a tortilla with butter/sugar/cinnamon.
The non-sweet foods I mentioned in my previous reply were not intended to be replacements for sweets, either. Those were ideas of things that we find filling and which provide energy, and might appeal to a kiddo who is feeling hungry and low on energy and is not in the mood for something sugary or chocolatey.
===nor is it healthy to eat in fear and shame===
I absolutely agree with what you said here, Sandra.
Glenda
I agree.
I'm not suggesting to offer banana bread w/peanut butter in place of a bowl of ice cream if ice cream is what's been asked for. I'd give the ice cream.
But if my kiddo was low on energy and hungry and wanted something sweet but didn't know what, if I had banana bread & PB on hand I would include those in the list of suggestions we came up with as we looked around the pantry and fridge to see what was available. Ditto if we had tortillas -- a tortilla with butter, sugar, & cinnamon can be as sweet as you want it to be.
===If the mom makes something not too sweet, blatantly "healthy," and then gets pissy that the kid doesn't want it, it cancels out every bit of potential advantage AND damages the relationship and any progress toward calm-and-better===
I agree with that, too.
I should clarify that the suggestions I made were not foods to replace things like ice cream, brownies, rice krispie treats, candy bars, and so forth, if those are what a kid is wanting -- those kinds of sweets are freely available in our house.
But I also offer different kinds of sweet tastes at other times -- on a monkey platter, or left in a common area for whoever wants it, or as "I'm making me 'x', do you want some too?".
What's happened with us is that my son doesn't define "sweet" only as candy bars, ice cream, brownies, marshmallows, etc. Sometimes those are exactly the kind of sweet he wants, but other times he'll ask for toast with butter & jelly, or pancakes with syrup, or a tortilla with butter/sugar/cinnamon.
The non-sweet foods I mentioned in my previous reply were not intended to be replacements for sweets, either. Those were ideas of things that we find filling and which provide energy, and might appeal to a kiddo who is feeling hungry and low on energy and is not in the mood for something sugary or chocolatey.
===nor is it healthy to eat in fear and shame===
I absolutely agree with what you said here, Sandra.
Glenda
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
Some people are posting that their children , having chosen what to eat all their lives, will not eat fruits and veggies or very little.
I want to post that my kids, specially my daughter , loves fruits and veggies.
My son is more a meat and potato kind of guy but he still eats fruits and veggies.
Gigi absolutely loves fruits and veggies and will ask for them non stop.
She also loves sushi, the veggie one with cucumber, carrots and avocado.
They both love carrots and broccoli.
My son loves dry cereal and hot dogs. Gigi likes chicken nuggets.
I have always all kinds of candy and chocolate plus I make cookies and brownies. They still will ask for fruits and veggies
or eat it when I offer them in a monkey platter or their plate.
So it is not that kids that can choose what they eat will not eat fruits and veggies. It is more about personal preference.
Plus I have had many conversations with my sister about the may fruits and veggies I did not like as a child and that now I absolutely love.
So a child that may not eat a lot of variety may become an adult that does, or not!
Alex Polikowsky
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I want to post that my kids, specially my daughter , loves fruits and veggies.
My son is more a meat and potato kind of guy but he still eats fruits and veggies.
Gigi absolutely loves fruits and veggies and will ask for them non stop.
She also loves sushi, the veggie one with cucumber, carrots and avocado.
They both love carrots and broccoli.
My son loves dry cereal and hot dogs. Gigi likes chicken nuggets.
I have always all kinds of candy and chocolate plus I make cookies and brownies. They still will ask for fruits and veggies
or eat it when I offer them in a monkey platter or their plate.
So it is not that kids that can choose what they eat will not eat fruits and veggies. It is more about personal preference.
Plus I have had many conversations with my sister about the may fruits and veggies I did not like as a child and that now I absolutely love.
So a child that may not eat a lot of variety may become an adult that does, or not!
Alex Polikowsky
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-Gigi absolutely loves fruits and veggies and will ask for them non stop.-=-
Holly was that way when she was young, though she did like pasta (plain, preferably, or with butter and salt).
She has a large range as a young adult, and eats Thai and Japanese food, will eat meat (not much on beef, still) and still loves vegetables more than either brother does.
-=-So it is not that kids that can choose what they eat will not eat fruits and veggies. It is more about personal preference.-=-
And it might be about physical need--what that particular body needs. If we think we know exactly what each human needs, it's kind of like thinking we know exactly what each child needs to learn, isn't it?
If a person is malnourished because of poverty or drought, that's unfortunate. That's rarely the case in the families communicating about alternative education by internet, so if the options are there and the child opts out, the parents should be calm about it.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Holly was that way when she was young, though she did like pasta (plain, preferably, or with butter and salt).
She has a large range as a young adult, and eats Thai and Japanese food, will eat meat (not much on beef, still) and still loves vegetables more than either brother does.
-=-So it is not that kids that can choose what they eat will not eat fruits and veggies. It is more about personal preference.-=-
And it might be about physical need--what that particular body needs. If we think we know exactly what each human needs, it's kind of like thinking we know exactly what each child needs to learn, isn't it?
If a person is malnourished because of poverty or drought, that's unfortunate. That's rarely the case in the families communicating about alternative education by internet, so if the options are there and the child opts out, the parents should be calm about it.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Deb Lewis
***The last few weeks have been difficult (for me) because he has been requesting bowl after bowl of sugar. I have been thinking of the sugar cubes story and giving it to him.***
Do you have other sweet things available? Can he have a Snickers bar or cookies or whatever he likes? I think Schuyler mentioned sugar on bread... My mom used to give us sugar on buttered bread. That was mostly because she didn’t like baking and sugar on bread sometimes stopped us asking for cookies or cake or whatever.
***I've read the advice of cooking yummy foods that they like and having them easily accessible and I would love to do that, but they don't seem to want or like most things that I can make or buy.***
Why can’t you make or buy foods they like? If “they still feel like they have little or no choices at home,” is that because you are not making and buying foods they like? I *can* make or buy anything my son would like to try. (I might save up if he wants something expensive and exotic.<g>
***Griffin often complains that he is hungry, but doesn't know what to eat. ***
Dylan did not want to be asked what he wanted. Especially when he was hungry, he couldn’t think about what sounded good. If your son is getting too hungry to know what sounds good then he needs you to feed him more often, take food you know he likes right to him. Not food you wish he would eat, food you *know* he likes and will eat.
***I wouldn't mind him eating mostly bread, seaweed snacks and cookies, but ***
Does this mean you prevent or discourage him eating those things? If he has a preference for bread, pasta, cookies and you eat no grains are you encouraging him to make a different choice when he asks for those things? You start a lot of sentences with some variation of “I would, but...” and so I’m wondering if you’re offering and buying and making any of the foods they really want.
Do you live where winters are darker and cold? Lot’s of people want more pastas and breads where the winters and dark and cold and eat more fruits and vegetables in the hotter months.
***I was formerly quite controlling of sweets.***
I think you still are.
***I am encouraged by the stories of the kids regulating their own diets and ending up with a variety of foods in them***
Dylan was sixteen when he got more adventurous about food. Before that he had a narrower palate. He gained weight before puberty and could eat two foot long submarine sandwiches when he was ten. People who are growing need a lot of calories. Sweets and pastas and breads provide needed calories. (I really did not know that someone half my size could eat more than twice as much food! And I wonder how many kids are hungry or binge eating away from home because some moms still haven’t figured out how much food their kids really need.)
***I've tried to offer or suggest foods with more lasting energy power as a way to combat his tiredness, but I feel like that put too much pressure on him.***
Instead of suggesting foods that are different from the foods he really wants give him what *he* wants and feed him more frequently. Don’t expect him to eat on a schedule or wait for dinner time, feed him before he’s hungry. Feed him what he wants. Feed him often.
***So what do you think I'm doing wrong? I'm trying to be patient and let them control their diets, but at the same time I'm only seeing their diets get smaller and my oldest is tired and unhappy.***
I think you’re not really being patient. You’re seeming judgmental and disapproving of their choices. Their diets are getting narrower, in part, because you’re not giving them what they want.
I think you have a lot of worries and hang ups about food and until you can peacefully quiet them your kids (and you!) are going to be conflicted and unhappy.
I think it’s possible that part of your son’s tiredness and unhappiness might be from the stress around food and food choices and your seeming disapproval of the things he’d really like to have.
Deb Lewis
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Do you have other sweet things available? Can he have a Snickers bar or cookies or whatever he likes? I think Schuyler mentioned sugar on bread... My mom used to give us sugar on buttered bread. That was mostly because she didn’t like baking and sugar on bread sometimes stopped us asking for cookies or cake or whatever.
***I've read the advice of cooking yummy foods that they like and having them easily accessible and I would love to do that, but they don't seem to want or like most things that I can make or buy.***
Why can’t you make or buy foods they like? If “they still feel like they have little or no choices at home,” is that because you are not making and buying foods they like? I *can* make or buy anything my son would like to try. (I might save up if he wants something expensive and exotic.<g>
***Griffin often complains that he is hungry, but doesn't know what to eat. ***
Dylan did not want to be asked what he wanted. Especially when he was hungry, he couldn’t think about what sounded good. If your son is getting too hungry to know what sounds good then he needs you to feed him more often, take food you know he likes right to him. Not food you wish he would eat, food you *know* he likes and will eat.
***I wouldn't mind him eating mostly bread, seaweed snacks and cookies, but ***
Does this mean you prevent or discourage him eating those things? If he has a preference for bread, pasta, cookies and you eat no grains are you encouraging him to make a different choice when he asks for those things? You start a lot of sentences with some variation of “I would, but...” and so I’m wondering if you’re offering and buying and making any of the foods they really want.
Do you live where winters are darker and cold? Lot’s of people want more pastas and breads where the winters and dark and cold and eat more fruits and vegetables in the hotter months.
***I was formerly quite controlling of sweets.***
I think you still are.
***I am encouraged by the stories of the kids regulating their own diets and ending up with a variety of foods in them***
Dylan was sixteen when he got more adventurous about food. Before that he had a narrower palate. He gained weight before puberty and could eat two foot long submarine sandwiches when he was ten. People who are growing need a lot of calories. Sweets and pastas and breads provide needed calories. (I really did not know that someone half my size could eat more than twice as much food! And I wonder how many kids are hungry or binge eating away from home because some moms still haven’t figured out how much food their kids really need.)
***I've tried to offer or suggest foods with more lasting energy power as a way to combat his tiredness, but I feel like that put too much pressure on him.***
Instead of suggesting foods that are different from the foods he really wants give him what *he* wants and feed him more frequently. Don’t expect him to eat on a schedule or wait for dinner time, feed him before he’s hungry. Feed him what he wants. Feed him often.
***So what do you think I'm doing wrong? I'm trying to be patient and let them control their diets, but at the same time I'm only seeing their diets get smaller and my oldest is tired and unhappy.***
I think you’re not really being patient. You’re seeming judgmental and disapproving of their choices. Their diets are getting narrower, in part, because you’re not giving them what they want.
I think you have a lot of worries and hang ups about food and until you can peacefully quiet them your kids (and you!) are going to be conflicted and unhappy.
I think it’s possible that part of your son’s tiredness and unhappiness might be from the stress around food and food choices and your seeming disapproval of the things he’d really like to have.
Deb Lewis
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-***Griffin often complains that he is hungry, but doesn't know what to eat. ***
-=-Dylan did not want to be asked what he wanted. Especially when he was hungry, he couldn�t think about what sounded good. If your son is getting too hungry to know what sounds good then he needs you to feed him more often, take food you know he likes right to him. Not food you wish he would eat, food you *know* he likes and will eat.-=-
My kids, too, especially Holly, didn't know what they wanted when they were hungry.
Monkey platters can help.
Last night we had a bunch of company--12 people in the house.
At one point we ordered pizzas, but in addition to that there were snacks out, two bowls of nuts, some fancy raisins in a bowl, bag of chips, some chocolate/wafer things, we had made quesadillas in the afternoon, cut up into little pieces and put where people could reach them. Anyone was free to get other food from the fridge.
No one was told to eat, or encouraged, or discouraged, other than the food being available and within reach.
http://sandradodd.com/eating/monkeyplatter
I rarely ever put "sweets" on a monkey platter, except for fruit, just because it seemed to me the kids would come and get sweets if they had that urge. It was, for me, the thought: variety, protein, filling
The round photo, fourth down on the left, is one of mine. A favorite dish I no longer have. :-) Pretzel sticks, cherries, pineapple chunks, apple slices, meat, cheese, nuts. Some people are vegetarian. Some can't digest cheese. Some are allergic to nuts. I'm not recommending the same thing for every family, I'm reporting what I did for years, and did somewhat last night.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
-=-Dylan did not want to be asked what he wanted. Especially when he was hungry, he couldn�t think about what sounded good. If your son is getting too hungry to know what sounds good then he needs you to feed him more often, take food you know he likes right to him. Not food you wish he would eat, food you *know* he likes and will eat.-=-
My kids, too, especially Holly, didn't know what they wanted when they were hungry.
Monkey platters can help.
Last night we had a bunch of company--12 people in the house.
At one point we ordered pizzas, but in addition to that there were snacks out, two bowls of nuts, some fancy raisins in a bowl, bag of chips, some chocolate/wafer things, we had made quesadillas in the afternoon, cut up into little pieces and put where people could reach them. Anyone was free to get other food from the fridge.
No one was told to eat, or encouraged, or discouraged, other than the food being available and within reach.
http://sandradodd.com/eating/monkeyplatter
I rarely ever put "sweets" on a monkey platter, except for fruit, just because it seemed to me the kids would come and get sweets if they had that urge. It was, for me, the thought: variety, protein, filling
The round photo, fourth down on the left, is one of mine. A favorite dish I no longer have. :-) Pretzel sticks, cherries, pineapple chunks, apple slices, meat, cheese, nuts. Some people are vegetarian. Some can't digest cheese. Some are allergic to nuts. I'm not recommending the same thing for every family, I'm reporting what I did for years, and did somewhat last night.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
CarenKH
=-=some fancy raisins in a bowl=-=
I am curious about these fancy raisins!
What makes them fancy?
Caren
I am curious about these fancy raisins!
What makes them fancy?
Caren
Deb Lewis
***I am curious about these fancy raisins!
What makes them fancy?***
High heels and a feather boa? No, that would make them floozy raisins.
Diamonds, maybe. That would be fancy!
We mix raisins with pine nuts and pecans and peanuts and chocolate chips and that seems pretty fancy.<g>
Deb Lewis
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
What makes them fancy?***
High heels and a feather boa? No, that would make them floozy raisins.
Diamonds, maybe. That would be fancy!
We mix raisins with pine nuts and pecans and peanuts and chocolate chips and that seems pretty fancy.<g>
Deb Lewis
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Michele Kendzie
My children are also showing me vegetables are not a necessary part of the diet because they rarely eat them and yet they're big and energetic. But I'm so confused by what is considered a nutritionally sound diet, that says vegetables ARE necessary. The idea of eating foods as close to their original state as possible and avoiding/limiting processed foods makes sense to me too. If sugar wasn't so readily available as it is nowadays, if sugars and fats weren't so altered in manufactured foods, and if we had mostly only fresh whole foods available instead of all millions the boxes of stuff filling grocery store aisles today then I would be so much more comfortable with the food freedom being discussed in this thread.
Are the nutritionists wrong? How did you move beyond this concern?
Michele
http://rhicarian.wordpress.com
http://michelespixelsandpages.smugmug.com
Are the nutritionists wrong? How did you move beyond this concern?
Michele
http://rhicarian.wordpress.com
http://michelespixelsandpages.smugmug.com
Sandra Dodd
-=-I am curious about these fancy raisins!
-=-What makes them fancy?-=-
Different colors and sizes all in one assortment package, from Trader Joe's.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
-=-What makes them fancy?-=-
Different colors and sizes all in one assortment package, from Trader Joe's.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Meredith
Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
Since my daughter is so sensitive to appearances, I've noticed this goes for foods that "look healthy" to my eyes - shades of brown and chunky, for instance. It can help to consciously make food pretty - Mo even liked it wrapped up in pretty paper when she was small, so every bite was a present. It was some extra work, but it was delightful to watch her approach a snack like it was Christmas morning - yippee! presents! That was especially important when she was in that busy, busy, busy toddler stage and would forget to eat unless food was as fun and interesting as whatever else she was doing.
Parents sometimes complain about packaging and commercial food presentation, but companies which market food to children have some valuable ideas! Make food attractive, convenient and a sweet and kids are more likely to eat it - and that's something parents can apply to home-made foods as well.
---Meredith
>> If the mom makes something not too sweet, blatantly "healthy," and then gets pissy that the kid doesn't want it, it cancels out every bit of potential advantage AND damages the relationship and any progress toward calm-and-better.*************
Since my daughter is so sensitive to appearances, I've noticed this goes for foods that "look healthy" to my eyes - shades of brown and chunky, for instance. It can help to consciously make food pretty - Mo even liked it wrapped up in pretty paper when she was small, so every bite was a present. It was some extra work, but it was delightful to watch her approach a snack like it was Christmas morning - yippee! presents! That was especially important when she was in that busy, busy, busy toddler stage and would forget to eat unless food was as fun and interesting as whatever else she was doing.
Parents sometimes complain about packaging and commercial food presentation, but companies which market food to children have some valuable ideas! Make food attractive, convenient and a sweet and kids are more likely to eat it - and that's something parents can apply to home-made foods as well.
---Meredith
Joyce Fetteroll
On Mar 14, 2012, at 11:50 AM, Michele Kendzie wrote:
What we're discussing here isn't an abstract philosophy that sounds nice. This is a long term, hands on study of real live kids living with food choice.
It's one thing to read ideas that make sense in theory, but if the theory doesn't match what unschoolers actually experience with their own kids, then what does that mean? Are the theories right or the real live life of the real live kids?
Joyce
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> Are the nutritionists wrong? How did you move beyond this concern?By reading about and having kids who make their own food choices and seeing that they're grown up healthy.
What we're discussing here isn't an abstract philosophy that sounds nice. This is a long term, hands on study of real live kids living with food choice.
It's one thing to read ideas that make sense in theory, but if the theory doesn't match what unschoolers actually experience with their own kids, then what does that mean? Are the theories right or the real live life of the real live kids?
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Meredith
Michele Kendzie <michele.kendzie@...> wrote:
It can help to look at what kids eat over a month rather than try to break things down day by day And to think about "serving size" - a serving of fruit for a child is tiny. A banana is more than one serving. A glass of juice is more than one serving. And then add in the fact that a lot of commercial foods are fortified. Fruits and vegetables aren't magic, they're sources of vitamins and minerals - and kids can get those in other ways.
---Meredith
>> Are the nutritionists wrong?Nutritionists paint with a broad brush. Individual dietary needs can vary enormously! As a child, I used to have allergic reactions to most fruits, for instance, but could drink copious amounts of milk, while my brother struggled with milk but had no trouble at all with fruit - and there we were, children from the same parents growing up in the same environment.
>>I'm so confused by what is considered a nutritionally sound diet, that says vegetables ARE necessary*****************
It can help to look at what kids eat over a month rather than try to break things down day by day And to think about "serving size" - a serving of fruit for a child is tiny. A banana is more than one serving. A glass of juice is more than one serving. And then add in the fact that a lot of commercial foods are fortified. Fruits and vegetables aren't magic, they're sources of vitamins and minerals - and kids can get those in other ways.
---Meredith
Deb Lewis
Good nutrition is important! Even unschoolers think so! The problem is a person can’t very often be made to accept someone else’s idea of good nutrition without there being some potential for at least some unhappy side effects.
***The idea of eating foods as close to their original state as possible and avoiding/limiting processed foods makes sense to me too. ***
So, do you eat that way? Are you excited about new foods and new recipes? Do you make new things and happily share with your kids? Do you find ways to make fresh foods most attractive and delicious?
***How did you move beyond this concern?***
I felt that the harm that could come from me pushing an idea or agenda; The potential damage to my relationship with my son, the potential creation of emotional or psychological issues surrounding food, was a greater risk than years of free food exploration.
I live where we have reliable access to a variety of foods. I keep a variety of foods available. We have positive ideas about food and eating, and enjoy good food. I get so excited in the summer when I can make a salad from my garden that everyone else gets excited too! Sun warmed tomatoes! Borage flowers! Baby zucchini! Smarty onions!
I know that people change and grow and their nutritional requirements change. I know that some of today’s nutritional theories will probably be refuted in the next year or two.<g> I encouraged my sons own feelings of good or ill health guide him in his food selection more than changing theories about food.
I know that by imposing food controls or limits a parent cannot guarantee a lifetime of health or healthy eating habits for her child. But if a child is unhappy about food limits and controls you can pretty much guarantee a lifetime of guilt or worry over food and all the problems that come with those.
I think stress, guilt and worry about food every day is more unhealthy than a bag of chips and a can of Coke every day.
Deb Lewis
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
***The idea of eating foods as close to their original state as possible and avoiding/limiting processed foods makes sense to me too. ***
So, do you eat that way? Are you excited about new foods and new recipes? Do you make new things and happily share with your kids? Do you find ways to make fresh foods most attractive and delicious?
***How did you move beyond this concern?***
I felt that the harm that could come from me pushing an idea or agenda; The potential damage to my relationship with my son, the potential creation of emotional or psychological issues surrounding food, was a greater risk than years of free food exploration.
I live where we have reliable access to a variety of foods. I keep a variety of foods available. We have positive ideas about food and eating, and enjoy good food. I get so excited in the summer when I can make a salad from my garden that everyone else gets excited too! Sun warmed tomatoes! Borage flowers! Baby zucchini! Smarty onions!
I know that people change and grow and their nutritional requirements change. I know that some of today’s nutritional theories will probably be refuted in the next year or two.<g> I encouraged my sons own feelings of good or ill health guide him in his food selection more than changing theories about food.
I know that by imposing food controls or limits a parent cannot guarantee a lifetime of health or healthy eating habits for her child. But if a child is unhappy about food limits and controls you can pretty much guarantee a lifetime of guilt or worry over food and all the problems that come with those.
I think stress, guilt and worry about food every day is more unhealthy than a bag of chips and a can of Coke every day.
Deb Lewis
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Sandra Dodd
-=- If sugar wasn't so readily available as it is nowadays, if sugars and fats weren't so altered in manufactured foods, and if we had mostly only fresh whole foods available instead of all millions the boxes of stuff filling grocery store aisles today then I would be so much more comfortable with the food freedom being discussed in this thread.-=-
But we're talking about living in the real world. I'm sitting in the room with two of my kids, who are at the moment 20 and 25. They have grown up in Albuquerque, eating from various sorts of stores, sometimes things grown in the yard or by friends, often at restaurants.
Kirby was talking about finding another martial arts class with a friend at work. He's not drinking soda these days. He's visiting from Austin.
Holly does a lot of yoga and doesn't eat much, but has a big range of favorites. A bit ago they were talking about what she might do for her 21st birthday, and she said she wanted to eat sushi and drink sake.
These kids aren't eating Twinkies and potato chips and shooting up coca cola.
Had they been controlled or shamed or even heavily "advised," they would be living with a reaction to those strictures.
Sandra
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But we're talking about living in the real world. I'm sitting in the room with two of my kids, who are at the moment 20 and 25. They have grown up in Albuquerque, eating from various sorts of stores, sometimes things grown in the yard or by friends, often at restaurants.
Kirby was talking about finding another martial arts class with a friend at work. He's not drinking soda these days. He's visiting from Austin.
Holly does a lot of yoga and doesn't eat much, but has a big range of favorites. A bit ago they were talking about what she might do for her 21st birthday, and she said she wanted to eat sushi and drink sake.
These kids aren't eating Twinkies and potato chips and shooting up coca cola.
Had they been controlled or shamed or even heavily "advised," they would be living with a reaction to those strictures.
Sandra
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Pam Sorooshian
>>***Griffin often complains that he is hungry, but doesn't know what toFirst - hunger is not only about needing food to eat - it can be about
> eat. ***
>
> Dylan did not want to be asked what he wanted. Especially when he was
> hungry, he couldn�t think about what sounded good.>>>
>
wanting nurturing - and food is only part of that.
This is really common to be hungry but not be able to think about what to
eat - all three of my kids do this and so do I. What I REALLY want is for
someone to read my mind - figure out exactly what would taste great to me
and put it in front of me. Partly, it is because I want to be taken care
of - it happens when I'm tired, feeling discouraged about something, in the
doldrums, or if I don't eat well for a day or two.
This is where I used to put out something like crackers and cheese and
grapes on a plate near the child. If the child was really cranky and likely
to reject the food, no matter what it was, I'd quietly put it nearby and
say absolutely nothing and quietly back out of the room. If the child
wasn't quite to that stage, I might say, "For you if you get the urge,"
something light and very very open-ended that didn't make it at ALL feel I
was forcing something on them. Often I'd go back in an hour or so and the
food would be at least partly eaten. Sometimes, pretty often, in 15 minutes
or so the child would come find ME and ask for more.
My 21 year old sometimes says - "I'm too hungry to figure out what to eat -
would you just make me something you know I'll like?" And I DO know, from
experience, that what she'll want is something super quick and that fruits
and veggies won't do it for her to start with - she'll want something more
bread-like. Often I put some crispy flat-bread cracker type of thing on a
plate and sprinkle with cheese and melt that in microwave for a few
seconds. Or I might pour a bowl of cheerios with some milk. I give her that
quickly, and then follow up with a bowl of grapes or sliced bananas or
strawberries or some other fruit. That combo seems to do the trick for her
- she comes right out of her funk - you can see her perk right up - kind of
amazing.
But her realization that she needs that has come about after years of me
being the one to notice it and gently offer before being asked. And when I
say "offer' I do not mean I started reeling off a list of things she could
eat - that would irritate her because it isn't what she was really asking.
I mean I made something available.
Sometimes the thing I made available was rejected. I took note of that in
my head but said absolutely nothing. Just set it aside for a snack for
later for me or my husband or one of the other kids. And immediately try
something else.
Sometimes a little treat can get a kid over the hump of being overwhelmed
with hunger feelings. A little piece of chocolate can sometimes help with
that, for example. If they know the Harry Potter books, you can compare it
to Harry eating chocolate to get over the effect the dementors had on him
<G>.
-pam
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Colleen
***And then add in the fact that a lot of commercial foods are fortified. Fruits and vegetables aren't magic, they're sources of vitamins and minerals - and kids can get those in other ways.***
I asked my son's doctor several years ago (he's 9 now) if he should take a vitamin, because he doesn't tend to have tons of variety in the foods he chooses to eat. The pediatrician smiled and asked "does he eat cereal?" I said yes, and he said "then you don't need to worry at all as long as he's eating vitamin-fortified cereals he'll be just fine."
I had, quite honestly, expected a lecture about getting him to try different foods, about the importance of variety, the importance of fruits and veggies but nope! Cereal :-)
In addition to a variety of cereals (we always keep 5 or 6 different kinds in the house so he has lots to choose from), we do also make plenty of fruits and vegetables available and he eats apples, apple juice, bananas, raisins, orange juice year-round plus in the summer lots of cucumbers, stir-fried kale, and the occasional spinach salad. He recently rediscovered sweet potatoes and has had those 3 times this week. But I am happy knowing that even if he goes days (or longer) without any of those things, he has his cereal which means he has access to what his body needs in a kid-friendly form :-)
I asked my son's doctor several years ago (he's 9 now) if he should take a vitamin, because he doesn't tend to have tons of variety in the foods he chooses to eat. The pediatrician smiled and asked "does he eat cereal?" I said yes, and he said "then you don't need to worry at all as long as he's eating vitamin-fortified cereals he'll be just fine."
I had, quite honestly, expected a lecture about getting him to try different foods, about the importance of variety, the importance of fruits and veggies but nope! Cereal :-)
In addition to a variety of cereals (we always keep 5 or 6 different kinds in the house so he has lots to choose from), we do also make plenty of fruits and vegetables available and he eats apples, apple juice, bananas, raisins, orange juice year-round plus in the summer lots of cucumbers, stir-fried kale, and the occasional spinach salad. He recently rediscovered sweet potatoes and has had those 3 times this week. But I am happy knowing that even if he goes days (or longer) without any of those things, he has his cereal which means he has access to what his body needs in a kid-friendly form :-)
Pam Sorooshian
> -=- If sugar wasn't so readily available as it is nowadays, if sugars andYour point - that lots of processed foods these days have a lot of
> fats weren't so altered in manufactured foods, and if we had mostly only
> fresh whole foods available instead of all millions the boxes of stuff
> filling grocery store aisles today then I would be so much more comfortable
> with the food freedom being discussed in this thread.-=-
sweetener (seldom sugar, almost aways high fructose corn syrup), fat, and
sodium - and those are very appealing and those who rely a lot on what were
referred to above as "manufactured foods" are not getting optimum nutrition
- they're high on calories, low on nutrients. All true. I think we all know
this - we're a pretty well-informed and intelligent group of people here.
And yet, we're saying that restricting food, controlling a kid's diet, is a
bad idea.
So - maybe assume we DO understand the nutritional side of it, and spend
more time wondering about why we feel so strongly, anyway, about not
limiting.
I have three super healthy 20-something kids who shop at farmer's markets
and eat extremely nutritiously. Probably they would be in the top 1 percent
if people were ranked according to how nutritious their diet
is...seriously, they are extraordinarily healthy eaters.
So - how did we get to this point? We never at all restricted foods - not
at all. We offered so many options - of all kinds. They never felt limited
- they could have anything. And they did have it all - snack foods like
chips, fatty and salty foods like french fries, candies and cookies, and
processed foods like Kraft macaroni and cheese. And we ate fast food and
out at restaurants a lot and they chose whatever they wanted to order
(within our budget constraints, of course).
And they feel that the world of food is their world - they "own" it fully.
They don't feel afraid or emotional about any of it. So, now that they are
in charge of their own food and a bit more conscious thought is involved in
choosing their foods - they have chosen to learn a lot about nutrition and
to make very healthy choices on purpose. Their choice. They are used to
making the choice about what to eat. It is natural to them. They choose
based on a combination of convenience, taste, and nutrition, and ethics.
-pam
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Michele Kendzie
I have been reading about healthy unschoolers for 8 years so I'm mostly there with being comfortable with it all. :) There are long term effects of nutrition we can't see so readily though. And the most wonderful relationships I could possibly have with my grown children won't make up for a childhood lacking some aspect(s) of nutrition I could have provided better if I'd done something differently. Not sure exactly what that is. Maybe no one knows. Maybe that's another reason to not worry about what kids are eating because only they know what their individual bodies need. I'm sure nutritional needs are individually unique.
But many nutrition studies are based on real people, they're not just theories. And you can go out yourself and talk to people about their diets and see connections between diet, exercise, and health. I know I often make the easier choice instead of fixing food that will make me feel strong and healthy (ie having a bowl of chips instead of making a meal) so wouldn't that be the same with kids?
I know about how nutrition ideas change over the years. But the idea we need vitamins from plants has never changed, has it? And yes, some of our modern food is fortified, but there is some concern that our bodies don't use fortified vitamins efficiently. Has anyone read anything to the contrary?
I know about looking at longer periods of time to look at food intake over time. I don't worry about it on a day by day basis. That works better over the warmer months when fruit is abundant and my kids fill up on that. Over the winter though they grew tired of the apples and oranges they used to like and ate very little of fruits, let alone veggies. Maybe we can make up winter deficiencies in the following summer?
Yes I do eat lots of veggies myself (though I do prefer cooked over raw) and fruits, and I avoid a lot of processed food. I used to get excited about new foods and new recipes but have gotten stuck in a rut after getting frustrated by the kids so often refusing to eat what I make for dinner. Of course I happily offer to share what I make with my kids, but more often than not, if its not something they asked for or something they've had before, then they don't want to even try it. Finding ways to make fresh foods more attractive and delicious -- there I am lacking creativity and will need to look into more.
I wish I could get myself the gumption to grow a garden. I've tried it a few times. I think it's a wonderful idea and I really would like to. But the three times I tried (granted I had babies then) it felt too difficult for me. I keep wishing I could work with a mentor gardener. But most of the time I think how fortunate we are to have grocery stores. :)
Pam I made no such assumption that anyone here is lacking knowledge. I am trying to get beyond my own concerns and asking how others have done so. My kids have also had many foods offered to them over the years. (They're 10, 8, and 5, always unschooled, btw.) Rather than being limiting, I am actually more concerned that I have been wishy washy about food, meaning I talk about how awful some food products are, but then I buy them anyway for my kids. The limits we have are more due to our grocery budget than me telling the kids what they can eat. They run out of their favorite foods within days because they eat them so fast. I have been avoiding buying stuff with high fructose corn syrup and partially hydrogenated fats which tends to mean organic and more expensive.
I've been considering buyer cheaper treats and worrying less about that stuff. Do you think they might be wrong about how awful those two things are? Maybe it's exaggerated? Maybe kids can make up for eating it when they're young by avoiding when they're older if they choose to? But see, I ate a lot of that (the HFCS and "bad" fats) as a teenager and I have such a sweet tooth and love potato chips, so much that I have no willpower to avoid them when I bring them into the house (but I buy them anyway, for the kids, which means I'm eating them sometimes when I'd really rather not. It's that convenience over nutrition factor.). How do I know that would have still been the case even if I'd had a whole foods diet as a teen? Maybe our palates get used to what we get. My parents did not place food limits on my siblings or me either; though we were expected to clean our plates and eat what was served for dinner, the rest of the time I helped myself to what I wanted, whenever. And guess what I chose . . . Little Debbie snack cakes, potato chips, that sort of thing. Sometimes I worry that by allowing my kids to eat so much sugar and fat they'll regret it as adults and wish I had "made" them eat better. I usually try not to worry about it much. The only way to know is live and see when we get there.
Maybe I should have spent this time looking up new intriguing recipes instead. :)
Michele
http://rhicarian.wordpress.com
http://michelespixelsandpages.smugmug.com
But many nutrition studies are based on real people, they're not just theories. And you can go out yourself and talk to people about their diets and see connections between diet, exercise, and health. I know I often make the easier choice instead of fixing food that will make me feel strong and healthy (ie having a bowl of chips instead of making a meal) so wouldn't that be the same with kids?
I know about how nutrition ideas change over the years. But the idea we need vitamins from plants has never changed, has it? And yes, some of our modern food is fortified, but there is some concern that our bodies don't use fortified vitamins efficiently. Has anyone read anything to the contrary?
I know about looking at longer periods of time to look at food intake over time. I don't worry about it on a day by day basis. That works better over the warmer months when fruit is abundant and my kids fill up on that. Over the winter though they grew tired of the apples and oranges they used to like and ate very little of fruits, let alone veggies. Maybe we can make up winter deficiencies in the following summer?
Yes I do eat lots of veggies myself (though I do prefer cooked over raw) and fruits, and I avoid a lot of processed food. I used to get excited about new foods and new recipes but have gotten stuck in a rut after getting frustrated by the kids so often refusing to eat what I make for dinner. Of course I happily offer to share what I make with my kids, but more often than not, if its not something they asked for or something they've had before, then they don't want to even try it. Finding ways to make fresh foods more attractive and delicious -- there I am lacking creativity and will need to look into more.
I wish I could get myself the gumption to grow a garden. I've tried it a few times. I think it's a wonderful idea and I really would like to. But the three times I tried (granted I had babies then) it felt too difficult for me. I keep wishing I could work with a mentor gardener. But most of the time I think how fortunate we are to have grocery stores. :)
Pam I made no such assumption that anyone here is lacking knowledge. I am trying to get beyond my own concerns and asking how others have done so. My kids have also had many foods offered to them over the years. (They're 10, 8, and 5, always unschooled, btw.) Rather than being limiting, I am actually more concerned that I have been wishy washy about food, meaning I talk about how awful some food products are, but then I buy them anyway for my kids. The limits we have are more due to our grocery budget than me telling the kids what they can eat. They run out of their favorite foods within days because they eat them so fast. I have been avoiding buying stuff with high fructose corn syrup and partially hydrogenated fats which tends to mean organic and more expensive.
I've been considering buyer cheaper treats and worrying less about that stuff. Do you think they might be wrong about how awful those two things are? Maybe it's exaggerated? Maybe kids can make up for eating it when they're young by avoiding when they're older if they choose to? But see, I ate a lot of that (the HFCS and "bad" fats) as a teenager and I have such a sweet tooth and love potato chips, so much that I have no willpower to avoid them when I bring them into the house (but I buy them anyway, for the kids, which means I'm eating them sometimes when I'd really rather not. It's that convenience over nutrition factor.). How do I know that would have still been the case even if I'd had a whole foods diet as a teen? Maybe our palates get used to what we get. My parents did not place food limits on my siblings or me either; though we were expected to clean our plates and eat what was served for dinner, the rest of the time I helped myself to what I wanted, whenever. And guess what I chose . . . Little Debbie snack cakes, potato chips, that sort of thing. Sometimes I worry that by allowing my kids to eat so much sugar and fat they'll regret it as adults and wish I had "made" them eat better. I usually try not to worry about it much. The only way to know is live and see when we get there.
Maybe I should have spent this time looking up new intriguing recipes instead. :)
Michele
http://rhicarian.wordpress.com
http://michelespixelsandpages.smugmug.com
CarenKH
=-=But see, I ate a lot of that (the HFCS and "bad" fats) as a teenager and I have such a sweet tooth and love potato chips, so much that I have no willpower to avoid them when I bring them into the house (but I buy them anyway, for the kids, which means I'm eating them sometimes when I'd really rather not. It's that convenience over nutrition factor.)=-=
Do you not have a choice of whether or not to eat those chips? Are you not making a choice, in that moment? I think this:
=-=My parents did not place food limits on my siblings or me either; though we were expected to clean our plates and eat what was served for dinner=-=
is absolutely a limit, and is controlling and manipulative. I am thinking your inability to see that you're making a choice when you grab those chips comes as a result of that control, rather than as some kind of holdover from eating foods you enjoyed.
You are still *thinking* about chips vs. nutrition, rather than *feeling* how each choice affects your body and mood, and choosing from there. It might be a handful of chips is just what your body needs to get through the afternoon! But your guilt at eating them is clouding your clear experience of eating them.
If they make you feel bad physically, why would you consciously choose them? That's not a question you need to answer here, it's something to consider. Why would you choose to feel bad? Why would a kid?
Caren
Do you not have a choice of whether or not to eat those chips? Are you not making a choice, in that moment? I think this:
=-=My parents did not place food limits on my siblings or me either; though we were expected to clean our plates and eat what was served for dinner=-=
is absolutely a limit, and is controlling and manipulative. I am thinking your inability to see that you're making a choice when you grab those chips comes as a result of that control, rather than as some kind of holdover from eating foods you enjoyed.
You are still *thinking* about chips vs. nutrition, rather than *feeling* how each choice affects your body and mood, and choosing from there. It might be a handful of chips is just what your body needs to get through the afternoon! But your guilt at eating them is clouding your clear experience of eating them.
If they make you feel bad physically, why would you consciously choose them? That's not a question you need to answer here, it's something to consider. Why would you choose to feel bad? Why would a kid?
Caren
Jenny Cyphers
***I ask them to pick things out at the store that they would like, but they still feel like they have little or no choices at home. I've read the advice of cooking yummy foods that they like and having them easily accessible and I would love to do that, but they don't seem to want or like most things that I can make or buy.***
Here are some starting places....
How often do you vary the stores you shop at?
How often do you go to community events in your area that have food? Where we live there are various festivals that highlight food, like a larger event in the city where local restaurants set up booths for people to taste what they have to offer, or the local Asian market that highlights different Asian cultures by offering sales and samples of various foods, or other smaller events like community gatherings offered by local people celebrating their own culture and offering it to the larger community.
How often do you try something new? Lefse changed my life, seriously! It was something I never knew existed and when I discovered its existence it made me look for other interesting things I've never tried.
How often do you expand your own food choices? There is an entire world of food choices. I personally think pickled eggs are really nasty, but LOTS of people like them. I never would know that I dislike them if I'd never tried them to begin with.
How often do you go out to eat somewhere you've never been to before? We used to go to Dim Sum when Chamille was little. So much so, that she used her play grocery cart as a Dim Sum cart instead of a grocery cart. Buffet restaurants are fun too, you pay per person and eat as much as you want and get to choose from a whole huge variety of food. Just going one single time could expand your idea of what your kids want to eat. You and your husband could eat salads and skip any food you personally don't want. You could go to a sushi restaurant and grab what looks interesting without knowing what it is and see if you like it.
How often do you guys watch any Food Network shows? Good Eats is one of my favorites! I've watched so many Food Network shows! Margaux, my youngest, loves food shows and often, it causes her to insist on me making something.
How often does anyone in your family play with food? There is the classic mashed potato volcano, or sandwiches cut up with cookie cutters. Expand that. Make it an art, don't just set down a monkey platter, make it interesting, make a design that can be disassembled, or a tower of tortillas to pull apart.
Food should be interesting and fun and nourishing. It's not just about nourishment. Food is just as much about gathering and talking and having fun.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Here are some starting places....
How often do you vary the stores you shop at?
How often do you go to community events in your area that have food? Where we live there are various festivals that highlight food, like a larger event in the city where local restaurants set up booths for people to taste what they have to offer, or the local Asian market that highlights different Asian cultures by offering sales and samples of various foods, or other smaller events like community gatherings offered by local people celebrating their own culture and offering it to the larger community.
How often do you try something new? Lefse changed my life, seriously! It was something I never knew existed and when I discovered its existence it made me look for other interesting things I've never tried.
How often do you expand your own food choices? There is an entire world of food choices. I personally think pickled eggs are really nasty, but LOTS of people like them. I never would know that I dislike them if I'd never tried them to begin with.
How often do you go out to eat somewhere you've never been to before? We used to go to Dim Sum when Chamille was little. So much so, that she used her play grocery cart as a Dim Sum cart instead of a grocery cart. Buffet restaurants are fun too, you pay per person and eat as much as you want and get to choose from a whole huge variety of food. Just going one single time could expand your idea of what your kids want to eat. You and your husband could eat salads and skip any food you personally don't want. You could go to a sushi restaurant and grab what looks interesting without knowing what it is and see if you like it.
How often do you guys watch any Food Network shows? Good Eats is one of my favorites! I've watched so many Food Network shows! Margaux, my youngest, loves food shows and often, it causes her to insist on me making something.
How often does anyone in your family play with food? There is the classic mashed potato volcano, or sandwiches cut up with cookie cutters. Expand that. Make it an art, don't just set down a monkey platter, make it interesting, make a design that can be disassembled, or a tower of tortillas to pull apart.
Food should be interesting and fun and nourishing. It's not just about nourishment. Food is just as much about gathering and talking and having fun.
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