Concerns about how my son treats my daughter
Christina
Hi everyone,
We are new to deschooling/unschooling and my son, 11yo, shows what I consider to be "bullying" types of behavior towards his 9yo sister. Example: Izzy was rinsing out her lunch dish and he walked over to her and took the faucet away from her. Rinsed his dish and put it in the sink. Another example is when she is "in his way", he will often push her. He speaks to her in what is in my opinion a condescending manner. I've always gotten in the middle and have shamed him for treating his sister this way or bullied him, myself, to "get him" to treat her differently.
Now, I can see that he has gotten his own bullying tendencies, (in part at least), from the example his dad and I have shown him. We have been "authoritarian", (bullies), up until the past 2 years where we started to change,but still have a LONG way to go. Learning of unschooling and the way it is affecting me in all areas has been very helpful in beginning to recognize these conditioned patterns. These old thought patterns die hard. I am sure he would feel the same way at this point, since he's been raised that basically, when you are older and stronger, then people have to submit to you.
I know that if I try to manipulate him in any way to change his behavior, that I am repeating the same pattern of parenting we've done for so many years. I don't want to do that, but don't know what to do. I need some input as to how to deal with these situations, for both of their sakes. Izzy is a very sensitive child and I confess that I worry about her. The way her brother treats her, affects her very deeply. I also worry about my son's future relationships. He is a very loving child with me. So tender, sensitive, and helpful, but if he views someone as weaker than himself, he is a different child towards that person and will use that to get what he wants, (just as he has learned from us).
I don't want to continue to default into trying to control his behavior towards her, but I don't want to let my daughter be bullied by her brother. Have any ex- or in the process of becoming ex-bully parents dealt with their children bullying siblings? Looking for any input, stories, whatever and help to see what I am not seeing.
Thank you,
Christina.
We are new to deschooling/unschooling and my son, 11yo, shows what I consider to be "bullying" types of behavior towards his 9yo sister. Example: Izzy was rinsing out her lunch dish and he walked over to her and took the faucet away from her. Rinsed his dish and put it in the sink. Another example is when she is "in his way", he will often push her. He speaks to her in what is in my opinion a condescending manner. I've always gotten in the middle and have shamed him for treating his sister this way or bullied him, myself, to "get him" to treat her differently.
Now, I can see that he has gotten his own bullying tendencies, (in part at least), from the example his dad and I have shown him. We have been "authoritarian", (bullies), up until the past 2 years where we started to change,but still have a LONG way to go. Learning of unschooling and the way it is affecting me in all areas has been very helpful in beginning to recognize these conditioned patterns. These old thought patterns die hard. I am sure he would feel the same way at this point, since he's been raised that basically, when you are older and stronger, then people have to submit to you.
I know that if I try to manipulate him in any way to change his behavior, that I am repeating the same pattern of parenting we've done for so many years. I don't want to do that, but don't know what to do. I need some input as to how to deal with these situations, for both of their sakes. Izzy is a very sensitive child and I confess that I worry about her. The way her brother treats her, affects her very deeply. I also worry about my son's future relationships. He is a very loving child with me. So tender, sensitive, and helpful, but if he views someone as weaker than himself, he is a different child towards that person and will use that to get what he wants, (just as he has learned from us).
I don't want to continue to default into trying to control his behavior towards her, but I don't want to let my daughter be bullied by her brother. Have any ex- or in the process of becoming ex-bully parents dealt with their children bullying siblings? Looking for any input, stories, whatever and help to see what I am not seeing.
Thank you,
Christina.
Sandra Dodd
http://sandradodd.com/gradualchange
What jumped out at me in all your description was that you had a two year old baby, and had another baby. Poor guy! He was robbed. Be nicer to him.
If he takes the sprayer away from his sister, think of it as something that was done to her, rather than something he did to someone. Defend her in her own home without trying to manage him.
Do you "make" them rinse their own dishes? If he was doing that because he's supposed to, that's part of another whole problem.
Sandra
What jumped out at me in all your description was that you had a two year old baby, and had another baby. Poor guy! He was robbed. Be nicer to him.
If he takes the sprayer away from his sister, think of it as something that was done to her, rather than something he did to someone. Defend her in her own home without trying to manage him.
Do you "make" them rinse their own dishes? If he was doing that because he's supposed to, that's part of another whole problem.
Sandra
Christina
Thank you for your response and for the link. I had read some previously about "saying yes more" and in addition to being better for the kids rather than being thrown into such a different way all at once, it has definitely been better for me while I transition. :-) I would've had a lot more anxiety doing it "all at once".
Yes, he was robbed and his face when he came to see me in the hospital after his sister was born told it all. I remember that expression like it was yesterday. He was so used to having all my attention and at 19 months had to share me.
Would you please give me an example of what it would look like to defend her without trying to manage him? Sounds great since I could still be there for her, without making my son the "bad guy".
The dishes are a habit. It's what we've always done. Even our 2 year old wants to be helped up to the sink to rinse her dish out and put it in the dishwasher. I'm not seeing any friction in this area, but I suppose there could be. Should I ask him how he feels about rinsing and putting his dishes in the dishwasher?
Thanks again!
Christina.
Yes, he was robbed and his face when he came to see me in the hospital after his sister was born told it all. I remember that expression like it was yesterday. He was so used to having all my attention and at 19 months had to share me.
Would you please give me an example of what it would look like to defend her without trying to manage him? Sounds great since I could still be there for her, without making my son the "bad guy".
The dishes are a habit. It's what we've always done. Even our 2 year old wants to be helped up to the sink to rinse her dish out and put it in the dishwasher. I'm not seeing any friction in this area, but I suppose there could be. Should I ask him how he feels about rinsing and putting his dishes in the dishwasher?
Thanks again!
Christina.
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
> http://sandradodd.com/gradualchange
>
> What jumped out at me in all your description was that you had a two year old baby, and had another baby. Poor guy! He was robbed. Be nicer to him.
>
> If he takes the sprayer away from his sister, think of it as something that was done to her, rather than something he did to someone. Defend her in her own home without trying to manage him.
>
> Do you "make" them rinse their own dishes? If he was doing that because he's supposed to, that's part of another whole problem.
>
> Sandra
>
chris ester
On Sun, Feb 19, 2012 at 3:46 PM, Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
alive) strategized to work on keeping my son from feeling too betrayed. My
mom would take my daughter and play with her in a different room and I
would spend time with my son doing whatever he wanted to do. We would do
the opposite as well, so that the relationships were kept strong. Bless my
mother for thinking of this. I was so overwhelmed by life at the time that
I was just focused on putting out fires between the full time job and the
infant and toddler.
that Sebastian somehow learned that it is okay not to respect you, I will
try to be more respectful so that I am a better example. Maybe we can work
on telling each other when we don't feel respected."
However, you can only do this if you mean it. It isn't to shame your son,
it is to acknowledge that you have made mistakes and modeled bad behavior
and that your daughter has gotten the fallout from these mistakes. It is
also an acknowledgment that you have to work on your behavior. You have to
be genuine and actually mean what you say. Your kids will know if are
bullsh*tting.
Giving permission and creating an atmosphere where everyone can state their
feelings and needs and be heard is hard work, but worth it.
The other part is that you definitely should try to find time with your son
one on one, and your daughter as well. Work on building relationships.
This will lead to more joy and peace.
Chris
> **I had exactly this scenario and my entire family (my parents were still
>
> >>>>>What jumped out at me in all your description was that you had a two
> year old baby, and had another baby. Poor guy! He was robbed. Be nicer to
> him. <<<<<<<
>
alive) strategized to work on keeping my son from feeling too betrayed. My
mom would take my daughter and play with her in a different room and I
would spend time with my son doing whatever he wanted to do. We would do
the opposite as well, so that the relationships were kept strong. Bless my
mother for thinking of this. I was so overwhelmed by life at the time that
I was just focused on putting out fires between the full time job and the
infant and toddler.
>I would say in front of my son, to my daughter (and mean it), "I am sorry
> >>>>>>>If he takes the sprayer away from his sister, think of it as
> something that was done to her, rather than something he did to someone.
> Defend her in her own home without trying to manage him.<<<<<<<
>
that Sebastian somehow learned that it is okay not to respect you, I will
try to be more respectful so that I am a better example. Maybe we can work
on telling each other when we don't feel respected."
However, you can only do this if you mean it. It isn't to shame your son,
it is to acknowledge that you have made mistakes and modeled bad behavior
and that your daughter has gotten the fallout from these mistakes. It is
also an acknowledgment that you have to work on your behavior. You have to
be genuine and actually mean what you say. Your kids will know if are
bullsh*tting.
Giving permission and creating an atmosphere where everyone can state their
feelings and needs and be heard is hard work, but worth it.
The other part is that you definitely should try to find time with your son
one on one, and your daughter as well. Work on building relationships.
This will lead to more joy and peace.
Chris
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
Sandra Dodd
-=-I would say in front of my son, to my daughter (and mean it), "I am sorry
that Sebastian somehow learned that it is okay not to respect you, I will
try to be more respectful so that I am a better example. Maybe we can work
on telling each other when we don't feel respected."-=-
Yikes. That's a lot of words.
I would say "Wait until she's done."
Or "Do her plate too, if you're in a hurry."
But if it's "a chore" for each child to rinse his own plate and put it in the dishwasher, that's a problem all by itself, and something to bump and jostle over. If he's "doing what you said" and happens to inconvenience someone, you become implicated.
-=-Would you please give me an example of what it would look like to defend her without trying to manage him? Sounds great since I could still be there for her, without making my son the "bad guy". -=-
Say something that handle the problem without being about them. "One at a time" or "she's not through."
But back to that chore bit... if she doesn't really want to rinse her plate, does she ever dawdle and stall? And if he can't go and play until he rinses his, might he try to rush past?
-=-The dishes are a habit. It's what we've always done. Even our 2 year old wants to be helped up to the sink to rinse her dish out and put it in the dishwasher. I'm not seeing any friction in this area, but I suppose there could be. -=-
You just TOLD us about friction in that area--you used it as an example of a clash.
-=-Should I ask him how he feels about rinsing and putting his dishes in the dishwasher?-=
No. Too much talking.
Maybe think about how you feel about it. It HAS been the scene of friction.
http://sandradodd.com/chores/gift
What are the chances your son would pick everyone's plate up and rinse it?
Mine does it quit a bit. He's older, and he didn't always, but he's more likely than anyone else in the house to clear the table as people are finishing up.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
that Sebastian somehow learned that it is okay not to respect you, I will
try to be more respectful so that I am a better example. Maybe we can work
on telling each other when we don't feel respected."-=-
Yikes. That's a lot of words.
I would say "Wait until she's done."
Or "Do her plate too, if you're in a hurry."
But if it's "a chore" for each child to rinse his own plate and put it in the dishwasher, that's a problem all by itself, and something to bump and jostle over. If he's "doing what you said" and happens to inconvenience someone, you become implicated.
-=-Would you please give me an example of what it would look like to defend her without trying to manage him? Sounds great since I could still be there for her, without making my son the "bad guy". -=-
Say something that handle the problem without being about them. "One at a time" or "she's not through."
But back to that chore bit... if she doesn't really want to rinse her plate, does she ever dawdle and stall? And if he can't go and play until he rinses his, might he try to rush past?
-=-The dishes are a habit. It's what we've always done. Even our 2 year old wants to be helped up to the sink to rinse her dish out and put it in the dishwasher. I'm not seeing any friction in this area, but I suppose there could be. -=-
You just TOLD us about friction in that area--you used it as an example of a clash.
-=-Should I ask him how he feels about rinsing and putting his dishes in the dishwasher?-=
No. Too much talking.
Maybe think about how you feel about it. It HAS been the scene of friction.
http://sandradodd.com/chores/gift
What are the chances your son would pick everyone's plate up and rinse it?
Mine does it quit a bit. He's older, and he didn't always, but he's more likely than anyone else in the house to clear the table as people are finishing up.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pam Sorooshian
> >>>-=-Should I ask him how he feels about rinsing and putting his dishesSometimes we don't deal with a specific situation because we're focusing on
> in the dishwasher?-=<<<
>
> >>>No. Too much talking.
> Maybe think about how you feel about it. It HAS been the scene of
> friction.>>>
>
the big picture problem. Maybe thinking of your son as a bully is
overwhelming your ability to respond to individual specific situations
because what you are wishing and hoping for is a way to cure him.
It isn't going to happen that way. What can happen is that you learn ways
to create greater and greater harmony in your family life and he'll
eventually be immersed in that and it will start to seem natural to him and
he won't so often have the urge to disrupt it.
(I don't think you can ever hope to entirely eliminate all friction between
siblings ever. My girls are in their 20's and they are best friends with
each other - but they have times when they have trouble getting along. So,
be realistic, too, so that you're not seeming like you're constantly
disappointed in him.)
So - my suggestion is that you eliminate this particular situation - the
two of them at the kitchen sink trying to do the same thing at the same
time. That's a setup for a problem. Instead, graciously and sweetly send
them off on their way to do something fun and you offer to rinse the
dishes. "Hey, go ahead back to your .....(game, show, toy, whatever)... and
I'll do the dishes." Gently and kindly just reach over and take his dishes
and move to the sink. Smile. Pat his head or even give him a little kiss on
the top of his head!
Another thought - are they eating at the same time because you have "meal
times?" Consider taking them food where they are already hanging out -
rather than them having to come to the table together to eat.
My heart is kind of going out to your son - the big bad bully with the
sensitive and sweet sister. It can't feel good to be thought of that way.
So do make HUGE extra efforts to be sweet and loving to him and pay
attention to him in good ways. At the same time, be calm and clear when
protecting your daughter. I used and really like the kind of language
Sandra suggested that is a little more impersonal and informative like
"one at a time." However, it might also be that you can overlook some of
the less egregious stuff while you're in the process of improving things
overall, so you don't start sounding like nag who corrects
constantly...otherwise you'll be tuned out.
Don't explain what you're doing...just do it. IF he ever complains that
you're "on her side," then, first, remember that he probably REALLY feels
that way and give him some very direct love and attention (eye contact,
physical contact), second, say, "You BOTH deserve to be safe in your own
home."
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Christina
**But back to that chore bit... if she doesn't really want to rinse her plate, does she ever dawdle and stall? And if he can't go and play until he rinses his, might he try to rush past?**
She does dawdle, but in everything. Most of us tend to be "get it done" kinds of people, not my Izzy. She's a stop and smell the roses kind of gal and has taught me how to do the same. As for Darius, I could definitely see him just wanting to get the dish done and get on with the next thing. Darius is like this,most of the time: when he is playing and realizes he's hungry, he wants to eat now, before he is done eating, he already knows the next thing he wants to be doing. He is always moving and shaking. Izzy is completely opposite. She is very in the moment. He tends to be more "task oriented" as to where Izzy is more "relationship oriented".
**The dishes are a habit. It's what we've always done. Even our 2 year old wants to be helped up to the sink to rinse her dish out and put it in the dishwasher. I'm not seeing any friction in this area, but I suppose there could be.
I accidentally deleted what you shared in the response, but YES! You are so right. Obviously there is friction. I had seen the two as separate. He doesn't seem to have a problem with doing the task, but something is going on.
**What are the chances your son would pick everyone's plate up and rinse it?
I don't know. He is very helpful. He is always asking me if there is anything he can do for me, but even this I have been reflecting on lately. I don't know if it's from his heart or from feeling like he "should". I don't want to "question" him on it because I think that would make him feel put on the spot, but I do wonder. I've been thinking that if he really wanted to do something "for me" then the opportunities are all around, so I think there may be more to it, like maybe he thinks this is a way to please me. I know when I was growing up, I always felt like nothing I did was good enough, but I rebelled. I didn't try to be more helpful to my parents, but it could be that he feels that I am "happy with him" when he behaves a certain way and performs a certain way and instead of rebelling and I can definitely understand why. This has been my message to him and Izzy. He may be trying to do what he thinks will please me. I wish I could get inside his head!
**Mine does it quit a bit. He's older, and he didn't always, but he's more likely than anyone else in the house to clear the table as people are finishing up.
I'm beginning to pay more attention to their spontaneous ways. They give their own gifts like they will come into my room sometimes and help me with my bed, or the ways they help care for their little sister, even how they enjoy playing with her. They have been raised with more of a "have to" mentality. There were things that were expected of them and even if they have become habits, they have become so from a place of having to. The things they don't feel they "have to" do are obviously more enjoyable.
Zoe, my two year old, is being raised differently than what I knew at the time when I had Darius and Izzy. I learned of Attachment Parenting when I was pregnant with her and we did the baby-wearing, nursing on demand, she slept with me, etc... I wish I had known about it when I was 22 and pregnant with Darius, but I didn't learn of it till I was 31. So all of this has flowed much easier with Zoe as to where with Darius and Izzy we had all these previous years of traditional "I'm the boss. You are the child. You will do as I say." Such a different dynamic happening there. Then learning of unschooling has opened up a whole new other world, but I can look back and see how this has all been unfolding so it feels like the next natural step.
Sorry to be so long-winded. I'm also 33 weeks pregnant with another little girl so Zoe will probably feel robbed too. :-( She is so attached to her momma. So all of this will help me with her transition as well when the new baby comes.
Christina.
She does dawdle, but in everything. Most of us tend to be "get it done" kinds of people, not my Izzy. She's a stop and smell the roses kind of gal and has taught me how to do the same. As for Darius, I could definitely see him just wanting to get the dish done and get on with the next thing. Darius is like this,most of the time: when he is playing and realizes he's hungry, he wants to eat now, before he is done eating, he already knows the next thing he wants to be doing. He is always moving and shaking. Izzy is completely opposite. She is very in the moment. He tends to be more "task oriented" as to where Izzy is more "relationship oriented".
**The dishes are a habit. It's what we've always done. Even our 2 year old wants to be helped up to the sink to rinse her dish out and put it in the dishwasher. I'm not seeing any friction in this area, but I suppose there could be.
I accidentally deleted what you shared in the response, but YES! You are so right. Obviously there is friction. I had seen the two as separate. He doesn't seem to have a problem with doing the task, but something is going on.
**What are the chances your son would pick everyone's plate up and rinse it?
I don't know. He is very helpful. He is always asking me if there is anything he can do for me, but even this I have been reflecting on lately. I don't know if it's from his heart or from feeling like he "should". I don't want to "question" him on it because I think that would make him feel put on the spot, but I do wonder. I've been thinking that if he really wanted to do something "for me" then the opportunities are all around, so I think there may be more to it, like maybe he thinks this is a way to please me. I know when I was growing up, I always felt like nothing I did was good enough, but I rebelled. I didn't try to be more helpful to my parents, but it could be that he feels that I am "happy with him" when he behaves a certain way and performs a certain way and instead of rebelling and I can definitely understand why. This has been my message to him and Izzy. He may be trying to do what he thinks will please me. I wish I could get inside his head!
**Mine does it quit a bit. He's older, and he didn't always, but he's more likely than anyone else in the house to clear the table as people are finishing up.
I'm beginning to pay more attention to their spontaneous ways. They give their own gifts like they will come into my room sometimes and help me with my bed, or the ways they help care for their little sister, even how they enjoy playing with her. They have been raised with more of a "have to" mentality. There were things that were expected of them and even if they have become habits, they have become so from a place of having to. The things they don't feel they "have to" do are obviously more enjoyable.
Zoe, my two year old, is being raised differently than what I knew at the time when I had Darius and Izzy. I learned of Attachment Parenting when I was pregnant with her and we did the baby-wearing, nursing on demand, she slept with me, etc... I wish I had known about it when I was 22 and pregnant with Darius, but I didn't learn of it till I was 31. So all of this has flowed much easier with Zoe as to where with Darius and Izzy we had all these previous years of traditional "I'm the boss. You are the child. You will do as I say." Such a different dynamic happening there. Then learning of unschooling has opened up a whole new other world, but I can look back and see how this has all been unfolding so it feels like the next natural step.
Sorry to be so long-winded. I'm also 33 weeks pregnant with another little girl so Zoe will probably feel robbed too. :-( She is so attached to her momma. So all of this will help me with her transition as well when the new baby comes.
Christina.
Christina
** Giving permission and creating an atmosphere where everyone can state their feelings and needs and be heard is hard work, but worth it. The other part is that you definitely should try to find time with your son one on one, and your daughter as well. Work on building relationships.
First of all, so awesome that you were able to do that with your children and that you mom was supportive! What a gift!
I have had a very strained relationship with my mom, but that very strain has been a catalyst for me to continually search out what it means to me to be a mom and what kind of mom I want to be for my children. For that, I'm grateful.
I WANT this open and honest relationship so badly. They need to KNOW they can trust me with their honest feelings and thoughts and I can't force that. It will be on their time table, but I can do my part of creating opportunities. They love spending time with me doing things and despite the controlling aspects, they tell me often how much fun they have with me. We climb trees together, (when I'm not pregnant), and I actually spend a lot of time outside with them in their world. They have pointed out to me on many occasions that they notice that the other parents don't and they love that I do. I'm thankful they still want to be around me. :-) I have two sides to my personality...one is the fear-based side that feels like it needs to control so many things, then I have another side that is like I am a kid as well. She,(my "fun" self), loves to play, color, paint, run, ride bikes, wants to learn to rollerblade after the baby is born, etc... I want to be the latter more often.
Thank you so much!
Christina.
First of all, so awesome that you were able to do that with your children and that you mom was supportive! What a gift!
I have had a very strained relationship with my mom, but that very strain has been a catalyst for me to continually search out what it means to me to be a mom and what kind of mom I want to be for my children. For that, I'm grateful.
I WANT this open and honest relationship so badly. They need to KNOW they can trust me with their honest feelings and thoughts and I can't force that. It will be on their time table, but I can do my part of creating opportunities. They love spending time with me doing things and despite the controlling aspects, they tell me often how much fun they have with me. We climb trees together, (when I'm not pregnant), and I actually spend a lot of time outside with them in their world. They have pointed out to me on many occasions that they notice that the other parents don't and they love that I do. I'm thankful they still want to be around me. :-) I have two sides to my personality...one is the fear-based side that feels like it needs to control so many things, then I have another side that is like I am a kid as well. She,(my "fun" self), loves to play, color, paint, run, ride bikes, wants to learn to rollerblade after the baby is born, etc... I want to be the latter more often.
Thank you so much!
Christina.
Sandra Dodd
-=-**What are the chances your son would pick everyone's plate up and rinse it?
I don't know. He is very helpful. He is always asking me if there is anything he can do for me, but even this I have been reflecting on lately. I don't know if it's from his heart or from feeling like he "should". I don't want to "question" him on it because I think that would make him feel put on the spot, but I do wonder. I've been thinking that if he really wanted to do something "for me" then the opportunities are all around, so I think there may be more to it, like maybe he thinks this is a way to please me. -=-
You misunderstood me.
If each child has been made responsible for his own plate, the chance that one would spontaneously (NOT from being asked) just do it, to be nice. is small.
-=- He is very helpful. He is always asking me if there is anything he can do for me-=-
I'm guessing he wants to interact with you, to have you acknowledge and see him in a good light, to remember that you love him.
-=- So all of this has flowed much easier with Zoe as to where with Darius and Izzy we had all these previous years of traditional "I'm the boss. You are the child. You will do as I say." Such a different dynamic happening there. Then learning of unschooling has opened up a whole new other world, but I can look back and see how this has all been unfolding so it feels like the next natural step. -=-
Tell him. Find some time alone with him and tell him you wish things could have been different when he was a baby. Tell him what you would have done differently.
This kind of emotional talk that involved time to think can be done well in a side-by-side situation:
http://sandradodd.com/truck
-=-Sorry to be so long-winded. I'm also 33 weeks pregnant with another little girl so Zoe will probably feel robbed too. :-( She is so attached to her momma. So all of this will help me with her transition as well when the new baby comes.-=-
I don't know if it can be as bad for a second or third child as for the first.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I don't know. He is very helpful. He is always asking me if there is anything he can do for me, but even this I have been reflecting on lately. I don't know if it's from his heart or from feeling like he "should". I don't want to "question" him on it because I think that would make him feel put on the spot, but I do wonder. I've been thinking that if he really wanted to do something "for me" then the opportunities are all around, so I think there may be more to it, like maybe he thinks this is a way to please me. -=-
You misunderstood me.
If each child has been made responsible for his own plate, the chance that one would spontaneously (NOT from being asked) just do it, to be nice. is small.
-=- He is very helpful. He is always asking me if there is anything he can do for me-=-
I'm guessing he wants to interact with you, to have you acknowledge and see him in a good light, to remember that you love him.
-=- So all of this has flowed much easier with Zoe as to where with Darius and Izzy we had all these previous years of traditional "I'm the boss. You are the child. You will do as I say." Such a different dynamic happening there. Then learning of unschooling has opened up a whole new other world, but I can look back and see how this has all been unfolding so it feels like the next natural step. -=-
Tell him. Find some time alone with him and tell him you wish things could have been different when he was a baby. Tell him what you would have done differently.
This kind of emotional talk that involved time to think can be done well in a side-by-side situation:
http://sandradodd.com/truck
-=-Sorry to be so long-winded. I'm also 33 weeks pregnant with another little girl so Zoe will probably feel robbed too. :-( She is so attached to her momma. So all of this will help me with her transition as well when the new baby comes.-=-
I don't know if it can be as bad for a second or third child as for the first.
Sandra
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Christina
**If each child has been made responsible for his own plate, the chance that one would spontaneously (NOT from being asked) just do it, to be nice. is small.**
This is one of those things I have fallen in love with in the radical unschooling way of life; the freedom to live from our own honest heart. I have "realized" this is SO true, even of myself. If I feel like I have to, then I don't want to, but if it's a gift, then that's different. It's a joy.
I haven't been trusting of my children's hearts. I subconsciously believed what I had learned from my own parents...if you want to have good, decent, children, then you need to control everything and make sure they know who is boss. I now see how false that belief is.
I think this is where Pam's advice fits so well. Seeking ways to create more harmony and peace in our environment and giving them "gifts" more often.
Do you have any other specific ways to change this in our home? How do I transition in this as well.
-=- So all of this has flowed much easier with Zoe as to where with Darius and Izzy we had all these previous years of traditional "I'm the boss. You are the child. You will do as I say." Such a different dynamic happening there. Then learning of unschooling has opened up a whole new other world, but I can look back and see how this has all been unfolding so it feels like the next natural step. -=-
**Tell him. Find some time alone with him and tell him you wish things could have been different when he was a baby. Tell him what you would have done differently.**
Thank you. Will definitely do.
**I don't know if it can be as bad for a second or third child as for the first.**
I hope not. I'll let you know what we discover. ;-)
Christina.
This is one of those things I have fallen in love with in the radical unschooling way of life; the freedom to live from our own honest heart. I have "realized" this is SO true, even of myself. If I feel like I have to, then I don't want to, but if it's a gift, then that's different. It's a joy.
I haven't been trusting of my children's hearts. I subconsciously believed what I had learned from my own parents...if you want to have good, decent, children, then you need to control everything and make sure they know who is boss. I now see how false that belief is.
I think this is where Pam's advice fits so well. Seeking ways to create more harmony and peace in our environment and giving them "gifts" more often.
Do you have any other specific ways to change this in our home? How do I transition in this as well.
-=- So all of this has flowed much easier with Zoe as to where with Darius and Izzy we had all these previous years of traditional "I'm the boss. You are the child. You will do as I say." Such a different dynamic happening there. Then learning of unschooling has opened up a whole new other world, but I can look back and see how this has all been unfolding so it feels like the next natural step. -=-
**Tell him. Find some time alone with him and tell him you wish things could have been different when he was a baby. Tell him what you would have done differently.**
Thank you. Will definitely do.
**I don't know if it can be as bad for a second or third child as for the first.**
I hope not. I'll let you know what we discover. ;-)
Christina.
Joyce Fetteroll
On Feb 19, 2012, at 2:47 PM, Christina wrote:
It feels like those power struggles kids get into in the backseat of the car where one on some level wishes the other didn't exist. I think he's competing for time and attention and to feel like an only.
Have you read Siblings Without Rivalry? It might help you figure out where you're feeding into the dynamic so that he feels like he's in competition with her. (And she perhaps doesn't even get that in his eyes they're competing.)
Joyce
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> he's been raised that basically, when you are olderBut submitting for what reason? To gain what? Was he really competing for the sink? Or was he competing for "space" in the family, pushing at her to elevate himself.
> and stronger, then people have to submit to you.
It feels like those power struggles kids get into in the backseat of the car where one on some level wishes the other didn't exist. I think he's competing for time and attention and to feel like an only.
Have you read Siblings Without Rivalry? It might help you figure out where you're feeding into the dynamic so that he feels like he's in competition with her. (And she perhaps doesn't even get that in his eyes they're competing.)
Joyce
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Christina
**Sometimes we don't deal with a specific situation because we're focusing on the big picture problem. Maybe thinking of your son as a bully is overwhelming your ability to respond to individual specific situations because what you are wishing and hoping for is a way to cure him.**
Yes. I am not dealing with just this one incident, but with the big picture. On one hand, I want to spare him from the mindset I've taught him and help him change that now, while knowing I ultimately can't do that. This is what he has learned from us, what he chooses to do with that is up to him, but I still fight the urge to try to "fix it". Then, on the other hand, is the concern for my daughter.
**So - my suggestion is that you eliminate this particular situation - the two of them at the kitchen sink trying to do the same thing at the same time. That's a setup for a problem. Instead, graciously and sweetly send them off on their way to do something fun and you offer to rinse the dishes. "Hey, go ahead back to your .....(game, show, toy, whatever)... and I'll do the dishes." Gently and kindly just reach over and take his dishes and move to the sink. Smile. Pat his head or even give him a little kiss on the top of his head!**
Great idea! Thank you!!!!
**Another thought - are they eating at the same time because you have "meal times?" Consider taking them food where they are already hanging out - rather than them having to come to the table together to eat.**
There aren't meal times. We tend to eat most breakfasts and dinners together, but they WANT to. I'm just as happy eating on the couch. They like the togetherness at the table so we do that when possible. The other side of all of this is that they are ALWAYS together. They play together all the time and have many similar interests. Izzy had started eating, then Darius decided to eat. Sometimes they eat lunch separately, but not often. Sometimes Izzy skips lunch and will just graze. Darius grazes, but also never skips "meals".
**My heart is kind of going out to your son - the big bad bully with the sensitive and sweet sister. It can't feel good to be thought of that way. So do make HUGE extra efforts to be sweet and loving to him and pay attention to him in good ways.**
No, it can't. Then Izzy often feels badly because her brother is good at math, good at getting things done, he is a whiz at anything "technological", etc... They both feel "inadequate" in their own ways. I have a lot of work to do. I have tried to encourage them in their personal gifts and talents and tried not to compare them. We all have our own strengths and weaknesses, but I never wanted to make them feel badly about their differences. I don't think I've done a good job of that. How do I affirm them individually without making them feel like my love and affection is based on "performance"?
**At the same time, be calm and clear when protecting your daughter. I used and really like the kind of language Sandra suggested that is a little more impersonal and informative like "one at a time." However, it might also be that you can overlook some of the less egregious stuff while you're in the process of improving things overall, so you don't start sounding like nag who corrects constantly...otherwise you'll be tuned out.**
You are onto something with this. I think the less "disciplinarian" I come across as, the better right now. I am still not on solid ground when it comes to this way of being. I'm just now beginning to "get" unschooling, much less radical unschooling. I need to focus more on making our environment more peaceful where we can connect more deeply and make that the priority over how they are interacting with one another. How can I go about fixing their relationship when our own has suffered so much? *rhetorical* but if you have input, it's absolutely welcomed! :-)
**Don't explain what you're doing...just do it. IF he ever complains that you're "on her side," then, first, remember that he probably REALLY feels that way and give him some very direct love and attention (eye contact, physical contact), second, say, "You BOTH deserve to be safe in your own home."**
Thank you. Yes. They sure do. Really appreciate all the help. I love that you all see things I can't see with my "tunnel vision". What a gift!
Christina.
Yes. I am not dealing with just this one incident, but with the big picture. On one hand, I want to spare him from the mindset I've taught him and help him change that now, while knowing I ultimately can't do that. This is what he has learned from us, what he chooses to do with that is up to him, but I still fight the urge to try to "fix it". Then, on the other hand, is the concern for my daughter.
**So - my suggestion is that you eliminate this particular situation - the two of them at the kitchen sink trying to do the same thing at the same time. That's a setup for a problem. Instead, graciously and sweetly send them off on their way to do something fun and you offer to rinse the dishes. "Hey, go ahead back to your .....(game, show, toy, whatever)... and I'll do the dishes." Gently and kindly just reach over and take his dishes and move to the sink. Smile. Pat his head or even give him a little kiss on the top of his head!**
Great idea! Thank you!!!!
**Another thought - are they eating at the same time because you have "meal times?" Consider taking them food where they are already hanging out - rather than them having to come to the table together to eat.**
There aren't meal times. We tend to eat most breakfasts and dinners together, but they WANT to. I'm just as happy eating on the couch. They like the togetherness at the table so we do that when possible. The other side of all of this is that they are ALWAYS together. They play together all the time and have many similar interests. Izzy had started eating, then Darius decided to eat. Sometimes they eat lunch separately, but not often. Sometimes Izzy skips lunch and will just graze. Darius grazes, but also never skips "meals".
**My heart is kind of going out to your son - the big bad bully with the sensitive and sweet sister. It can't feel good to be thought of that way. So do make HUGE extra efforts to be sweet and loving to him and pay attention to him in good ways.**
No, it can't. Then Izzy often feels badly because her brother is good at math, good at getting things done, he is a whiz at anything "technological", etc... They both feel "inadequate" in their own ways. I have a lot of work to do. I have tried to encourage them in their personal gifts and talents and tried not to compare them. We all have our own strengths and weaknesses, but I never wanted to make them feel badly about their differences. I don't think I've done a good job of that. How do I affirm them individually without making them feel like my love and affection is based on "performance"?
**At the same time, be calm and clear when protecting your daughter. I used and really like the kind of language Sandra suggested that is a little more impersonal and informative like "one at a time." However, it might also be that you can overlook some of the less egregious stuff while you're in the process of improving things overall, so you don't start sounding like nag who corrects constantly...otherwise you'll be tuned out.**
You are onto something with this. I think the less "disciplinarian" I come across as, the better right now. I am still not on solid ground when it comes to this way of being. I'm just now beginning to "get" unschooling, much less radical unschooling. I need to focus more on making our environment more peaceful where we can connect more deeply and make that the priority over how they are interacting with one another. How can I go about fixing their relationship when our own has suffered so much? *rhetorical* but if you have input, it's absolutely welcomed! :-)
**Don't explain what you're doing...just do it. IF he ever complains that you're "on her side," then, first, remember that he probably REALLY feels that way and give him some very direct love and attention (eye contact, physical contact), second, say, "You BOTH deserve to be safe in your own home."**
Thank you. Yes. They sure do. Really appreciate all the help. I love that you all see things I can't see with my "tunnel vision". What a gift!
Christina.
Sandra Dodd
-=- On one hand, I want to spare him from the mindset I've taught him and help him change that now, while knowing I ultimately can't do that. This is what he has learned from us, what he chooses to do with that is up to him, but I still fight the urge to try to "fix it". Then, on the other hand, is the concern for my daughter.-=-
That sounds harsh, like you're writing him off.
These might make you feel better:
http://sandradodd.com/later/
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That sounds harsh, like you're writing him off.
These might make you feel better:
http://sandradodd.com/later/
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bellumswife77
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
Blessings,
Stefanie
>He was "robbed"? It's VERY possible to have more than one baby without "robbing" the other. I have raised seven children of my own and fostered many more. My children eagerly look forward to each new child and that is the case in many large families. The parents weren't teens, but adults. a woman's body naturally spaces children every two years for a reason!
> http://sandradodd.com/gradualchange
>
> What jumped out at me in all your description was that you had a two year old baby, and had another baby. Poor guy! He was robbed. Be nicer to him.
>
Blessings,
Stefanie
Sandra Dodd
-=-He was "robbed"? It's VERY possible to have more than one baby without "robbing" the other. I have raised seven children of my own and fostered many more. -=-
Did you raise those children as an unschooler? Because I want the discussions on this list to be about unschooling, by unschoolers, as much as possible.
Most mothers are sure they didn't traumatize their kids. If you're a firstborn child who had a sibling come along within two or three years, do you remember how you felt about it?
My parents fostered two kids who pretty much screwed our lives up, and my parents' marriage, too. My younger sister was sexually abused by our cousin for years.
If your children are ecstatically happy with their six siblings and your foster children and if your marriage is sound and healthy, and you've been unschooling a long time, great!
The story was of a boy being pushy and impatient with a sibling two years younger. It might be very possible to have more than one baby without robbing the other, but that doesn't seem to apply to the questions at hand.
Sandra
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Did you raise those children as an unschooler? Because I want the discussions on this list to be about unschooling, by unschoolers, as much as possible.
Most mothers are sure they didn't traumatize their kids. If you're a firstborn child who had a sibling come along within two or three years, do you remember how you felt about it?
My parents fostered two kids who pretty much screwed our lives up, and my parents' marriage, too. My younger sister was sexually abused by our cousin for years.
If your children are ecstatically happy with their six siblings and your foster children and if your marriage is sound and healthy, and you've been unschooling a long time, great!
The story was of a boy being pushy and impatient with a sibling two years younger. It might be very possible to have more than one baby without robbing the other, but that doesn't seem to apply to the questions at hand.
Sandra
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Sandra Dodd
-=- If you're a firstborn child who had a sibling come along within two or three years, do you remember how you felt about it?-=-
I haven't seen it happen with subsequent children as it does with firstborns. It's not something I made up, honestly.
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I haven't seen it happen with subsequent children as it does with firstborns. It's not something I made up, honestly.
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Jenny Cyphers
***Most mothers are sure they didn't traumatize their kids. If you're a firstborn child who had a sibling come along within two or three years, do you remember how you felt about it?***
I do! I was a tiny bit over 1 when my sister was born. I remember wanting to play with her like she was a doll but she cried all the time and took all the attention and then I just wanted to pee on her. I honestly remember this! I remember the exact layout of that house and the moment that I first felt like I wanted to pee on her. I was in the kitchen all by myself and my mom was in the bathroom right off the kitchen with the door open slightly. My sister was on the floor and my mom's back was toward me while she knelt down to change her diaper. I was really mad that I was all alone and really sad that my sister was getting to do something in the bathroom with my mom. I remember squeezing my way past my mom to look at my sister and wanting to sit down on her little baby body and pee on her. I didn't, but that feeling was so strong that I remember it and everything about that moment.
I did grow to love my sister and I'm quite certain that my parents never for a moment thought that I ever felt that way about her. It was a feeling I was ashamed of because I was supposed to love her just as much as my parents did.
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I do! I was a tiny bit over 1 when my sister was born. I remember wanting to play with her like she was a doll but she cried all the time and took all the attention and then I just wanted to pee on her. I honestly remember this! I remember the exact layout of that house and the moment that I first felt like I wanted to pee on her. I was in the kitchen all by myself and my mom was in the bathroom right off the kitchen with the door open slightly. My sister was on the floor and my mom's back was toward me while she knelt down to change her diaper. I was really mad that I was all alone and really sad that my sister was getting to do something in the bathroom with my mom. I remember squeezing my way past my mom to look at my sister and wanting to sit down on her little baby body and pee on her. I didn't, but that feeling was so strong that I remember it and everything about that moment.
I did grow to love my sister and I'm quite certain that my parents never for a moment thought that I ever felt that way about her. It was a feeling I was ashamed of because I was supposed to love her just as much as my parents did.
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bellumswife77
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
As for the 11 year old, I don't recall if it was said how long he had been disrespectful to his sister. I do know that many bits that age become domineering, especially if they have had their will disregarded toI often and haven't experienced being treated with respect and dignity themselves. Those who have had that privilege are some if the most gentle souls.
I an sweets sorry you, your family and cousin were hurt. Unfortunately that happens often, and it's why I have.age limits in my home that even I had to lower because if aggression by very young children. For that reason my home is only open to infants.
I greatly admire you Sandra because you are a woman of principles. Aiyee ideas are often ingenious and inspired out if love and respect. Thank you for your dedication and hard work!
Blessings,
Stefanie in AK
>I personally am very much in the beginning stages of discovery. My goal, as an Indigenous person, is to raised my children Traditionally. Other women besides myself have discovered that Unschooling is in many ways a traditionally Indigenous upbringing, although I have noted some differences, most notably that we see life through a different lenses.
> -=-He was "robbed"? It's VERY possible to have more than one baby without "robbing" the other.
>
> Did you raise those children as an unschooler? Because I want the discussions on this list to be about unschooling, by unschoolers, as much as possible.
>
> If your children are ecstatically happy r six siblings and your foster children and if your marriage is sound and healthy, and you've been unschooling a long time, great!Unfortunately no, not yet (gentle change!) Thankfully however I DO have ecstatic children who are greatly benefiting from gentle change as we learn more and explore together.
>
As for the 11 year old, I don't recall if it was said how long he had been disrespectful to his sister. I do know that many bits that age become domineering, especially if they have had their will disregarded toI often and haven't experienced being treated with respect and dignity themselves. Those who have had that privilege are some if the most gentle souls.
I an sweets sorry you, your family and cousin were hurt. Unfortunately that happens often, and it's why I have.age limits in my home that even I had to lower because if aggression by very young children. For that reason my home is only open to infants.
I greatly admire you Sandra because you are a woman of principles. Aiyee ideas are often ingenious and inspired out if love and respect. Thank you for your dedication and hard work!
Blessings,
Stefanie in AK
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Joyce Fetteroll
On Feb 19, 2012, at 10:29 PM, bellumswife77 wrote:
And if the principles you used won't also nurture unschooling, then it won't be helpful to the people on the list.
If the parents assume the first born is having the same experience with the newborn as they are, they can easily make the situation even worse for the first child.
Humans having evolved to produce kids an average of 2 years apart has little to do with the relationships between the kids and everything to do with maximizing the number of offspring that can reproduce as successfully as their parents in the environment they're in. Humans have evolved to nurture and care for our offspring not because evolution "cares" about such values but because it makes it more likely that generation will survive and reproduce.
That we -- and hyenas and possums and robins -- expend energy to nurture our young to adulthood is just one possibility that arose by chance. It allowed species to exploit environments that needed more knowledge to succeed in than could be passed on by biology. We're not superior -- as far as evolution is concerned -- to turtles, sharks and cockroaches, which haven't needed to change their basic designs in longer than humans have existed. We're just different.
As amazing and wonderful loving and being loved feels, its roots are purely a mechanism for maximizing offspring. Which, rather than diminishing it, I think makes it even more amazing. :-) But imagining evolution (or God) having designed us to be loving and nurturing creatures, if you look at how poorly some people manage to do it, then the design looks very flawed. But if it's seen as a fluke that we've exploited this mechanism to the point where I can care enough to spend my time writing to people I don't know to help them nurture kids who aren't related to me, then I think that nurturing mechanism looks pretty wondrous :-)
Joyce
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> He was "robbed"? It's VERY possible to have more than one baby without "robbing" the other.Just because something is possible for one person doesn't make the opposite impossible for someone else.
> I have raised seven children of my own and fostered many more.And if the relationships among your kids wasn't consciously nurtured and you can't explain the principles so that a family with a different mix of personalities can have the same results, what does your success mean to the people on the list?
And if the principles you used won't also nurture unschooling, then it won't be helpful to the people on the list.
> My children eagerly look forward to each new child and that is the case in many large families.Later kids don't spend every moment since their birth learning that their parents belong exclusively to them. For the first born it's very much like if your husband brought home a new wife because he loved the first one so much he decided to have another. Subsequent kids know that everything in the family is for sharing.
If the parents assume the first born is having the same experience with the newborn as they are, they can easily make the situation even worse for the first child.
> The parents weren't teens, but adults. a woman's body naturally spaces children every two years for a reason!I'm not sure what that means to parents who are teens. Or for children born closer than or further apart than 2 years.
Humans having evolved to produce kids an average of 2 years apart has little to do with the relationships between the kids and everything to do with maximizing the number of offspring that can reproduce as successfully as their parents in the environment they're in. Humans have evolved to nurture and care for our offspring not because evolution "cares" about such values but because it makes it more likely that generation will survive and reproduce.
That we -- and hyenas and possums and robins -- expend energy to nurture our young to adulthood is just one possibility that arose by chance. It allowed species to exploit environments that needed more knowledge to succeed in than could be passed on by biology. We're not superior -- as far as evolution is concerned -- to turtles, sharks and cockroaches, which haven't needed to change their basic designs in longer than humans have existed. We're just different.
As amazing and wonderful loving and being loved feels, its roots are purely a mechanism for maximizing offspring. Which, rather than diminishing it, I think makes it even more amazing. :-) But imagining evolution (or God) having designed us to be loving and nurturing creatures, if you look at how poorly some people manage to do it, then the design looks very flawed. But if it's seen as a fluke that we've exploited this mechanism to the point where I can care enough to spend my time writing to people I don't know to help them nurture kids who aren't related to me, then I think that nurturing mechanism looks pretty wondrous :-)
Joyce
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Christina
**He was "robbed"? It's VERY possible to have more than one baby without "robbing" the other.**
May be possible. I know for my son, he didn't understand what was happening. It was the first time mom had ever left him overnight and when he was able to see me, I was holding another baby. When he first came into the room, he smiled so big. He was so happy to see his mom, then he saw "her". He put his head down and walked right past me and to his grandma. I'll never forget his little face. He did grow to love her, she is really his best friend, but I can only imagine how difficult it was for him and he didn't have the words to express himself and I was just trying to do the best I could with an infant and a toddler. Darius and Izzy were both VERY excited when I became pregnant with Zoe, who came nearly 8 years after Izzy and they have adored her since she was in my tummy and still do and it's been the same with this baby. They are ecstatic. So I think there may be something to the firstborn experience of a sibling that is different than subsequent children.
Christina.
May be possible. I know for my son, he didn't understand what was happening. It was the first time mom had ever left him overnight and when he was able to see me, I was holding another baby. When he first came into the room, he smiled so big. He was so happy to see his mom, then he saw "her". He put his head down and walked right past me and to his grandma. I'll never forget his little face. He did grow to love her, she is really his best friend, but I can only imagine how difficult it was for him and he didn't have the words to express himself and I was just trying to do the best I could with an infant and a toddler. Darius and Izzy were both VERY excited when I became pregnant with Zoe, who came nearly 8 years after Izzy and they have adored her since she was in my tummy and still do and it's been the same with this baby. They are ecstatic. So I think there may be something to the firstborn experience of a sibling that is different than subsequent children.
Christina.
Sandra Dodd
Joyce wrote: -=-As amazing and wonderful loving and being loved feels, its roots are purely a mechanism for maximizing offspring. Which, rather than diminishing it, I think makes it even more amazing. :-) But imagining evolution (or God) having designed us to be loving and nurturing creatures, if you look at how poorly some people manage to do it, then the design looks very flawed. But if it's seen as a fluke that we've exploited this mechanism to the point where I can care enough to spend my time writing to people I don't know to help them nurture kids who aren't related to me, then I think that nurturing mechanism looks pretty wondrous :-)-=-
Ain't love weird? :-)
I'm glad Joyce and many others here are willing to help strangers nurture kids who aren't even related to them. As hobbies go, this one is odd but also life changing and world changing, and I'm glad to be around people who help create webs of ideas for others to explore, to explain things again, just a little differently, so someone else can change their viewpoint, just a little bit.
Some people knit or paint or write songs or make quilts. Often they paint a similar painting many times, or write similar songs, or make a quilt pattern they have made before. We're doing something like that, but it doesn't show as much.
When I spoke at a marriage conference last year, the organizer gave me a quilt she had made me. The pattern is double wedding ring. I know this because my mamaw was working on one for me but it was never finished. :-) The quiltmaker was Lori Odhner. Her daughter had set up a camera where people could do self portraits by posing and then stepping on a pedal. Here's a photo I took of myself in that quilt last February.
http://sandradodd.blogspot.com/2012/02/my-beautiful-quilt.html
And today I added some quotes by Lori to this page: http://sandradodd.com/divorce
Thank you, Joyce and others, for helping strangers keep warm.
Sandra
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Ain't love weird? :-)
I'm glad Joyce and many others here are willing to help strangers nurture kids who aren't even related to them. As hobbies go, this one is odd but also life changing and world changing, and I'm glad to be around people who help create webs of ideas for others to explore, to explain things again, just a little differently, so someone else can change their viewpoint, just a little bit.
Some people knit or paint or write songs or make quilts. Often they paint a similar painting many times, or write similar songs, or make a quilt pattern they have made before. We're doing something like that, but it doesn't show as much.
When I spoke at a marriage conference last year, the organizer gave me a quilt she had made me. The pattern is double wedding ring. I know this because my mamaw was working on one for me but it was never finished. :-) The quiltmaker was Lori Odhner. Her daughter had set up a camera where people could do self portraits by posing and then stepping on a pedal. Here's a photo I took of myself in that quilt last February.
http://sandradodd.blogspot.com/2012/02/my-beautiful-quilt.html
And today I added some quotes by Lori to this page: http://sandradodd.com/divorce
Thank you, Joyce and others, for helping strangers keep warm.
Sandra
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Sandra Dodd
-=- My goal, as an Indigenous person, is to raised my children Traditionally. Other women besides myself have discovered that Unschooling is in many ways a traditionally Indigenous upbringing, although I have noted some differences, most notably that we see life through a different lenses. -=-
In the absence of a surrounding culture, or in the presence of the culture that IS surrounding a family, it's important is to allow children to see life through their own eyes, without imposing a lens on them.
Children born in the 21st century should not be held back in the past.
http://sandradodd.com/reality/
Sandra
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In the absence of a surrounding culture, or in the presence of the culture that IS surrounding a family, it's important is to allow children to see life through their own eyes, without imposing a lens on them.
Children born in the 21st century should not be held back in the past.
http://sandradodd.com/reality/
Sandra
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Sandra Dodd
I have a note to post anonymously.
This is not to suggest that pushing someone away at the kitchen sink could become sexual abuse. It's a note that a younger sibling should be protected, and older children should be loved. Both of them, all of them: protected and loved.
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This is not to suggest that pushing someone away at the kitchen sink could become sexual abuse. It's a note that a younger sibling should be protected, and older children should be loved. Both of them, all of them: protected and loved.
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--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
> -=-My parents fostered two kids who pretty much screwed our lives up, and my parents' marriage, too. My younger sister was sexually abused by our cousin for years.-=-
Please don't post my email address. I feel for the girl.
The fight in the kitchen situation that the mom is talking about reminds me of my brother and I.
I was the youngest in my family. My brother got very jealous since the day I was born. He sexually abused me for years. He also sold me to relatives and friends for sex since I was 5. When we became teenagers he would act very affectionate in public like if he was my boyfriend. My mom knew what he was doing to me but she didn't do anything.
When we became adults he told me that the reason he didn't do well in life was because my parents didn't help him the way they always helped me. That wasn't true. My brother almost ruined my parents.
I think the mom is right to be concerned about protecting her daughter from her brother.
Miliana
Hi Cristina,
I had my second child when my first was 2. I found nursing both of them - often at the same time - went a long way towards reducing resentment along with DH and I taking turns to spend time with each child individually.
Aloha,
Miliana
Sent from my iPhone; please excuse typos and auto corrections.
I had my second child when my first was 2. I found nursing both of them - often at the same time - went a long way towards reducing resentment along with DH and I taking turns to spend time with each child individually.
Aloha,
Miliana
Sent from my iPhone; please excuse typos and auto corrections.
Christina
** It feels like those power struggles kids get into in the backseat of the car where one on some level wishes the other didn't exist. I think he's competing for time and attention and to feel like an only.**
Perhaps. I don't know. I'm not sure he knows. When we've spoken about like situations, he doesn't seem to have any idea why he responds this way. Sometimes he says he just gets frustrated with her and that he feels she overreacts. Maybe he just wanted to get done and get on with the next thing. Maybe there is more to it.
**Have you read Siblings Without Rivalry? It might help you figure out where you're feeding into the dynamic so that he feels like he's in competition with her. (And she perhaps doesn't even get that in his eyes they're competing.)**
I am going to look into getting this. Thank you. I am in the middle of "Talking So Your Kids Will Listen and Learning How to Listen So Your Kids Will Talk". Something like that. It's such a 180 to what I was raised with. I'm really enjoying it. Like everything else, it's been very challenging to me. Helping me realize the "knee-jerk" responses in greater depth.
Today they've been painting together for at least the past 2 hours. They also chat all day long. I've never understood how two people can be together as much as they are and never run out of things to say. :-) I wish I really knew what brings out the occasional combativeness. Maybe as I progress through deschooling, they will both feel more comfortable opening up more to me where I could really hear what they truly feel and what's in their heart. Maybe it has nothing to do with each other. Maybe he was having a moment...a bad afternoon...Maybe he doesn't know how to handle relationships when he's having a bad moment/day just as I haven't always been really good at that. I don't know. So many possibilities. Now that we are focusing more on our relationship maybe some of the other stuff will dissipate.
Thanks again.
Christina.
Perhaps. I don't know. I'm not sure he knows. When we've spoken about like situations, he doesn't seem to have any idea why he responds this way. Sometimes he says he just gets frustrated with her and that he feels she overreacts. Maybe he just wanted to get done and get on with the next thing. Maybe there is more to it.
**Have you read Siblings Without Rivalry? It might help you figure out where you're feeding into the dynamic so that he feels like he's in competition with her. (And she perhaps doesn't even get that in his eyes they're competing.)**
I am going to look into getting this. Thank you. I am in the middle of "Talking So Your Kids Will Listen and Learning How to Listen So Your Kids Will Talk". Something like that. It's such a 180 to what I was raised with. I'm really enjoying it. Like everything else, it's been very challenging to me. Helping me realize the "knee-jerk" responses in greater depth.
Today they've been painting together for at least the past 2 hours. They also chat all day long. I've never understood how two people can be together as much as they are and never run out of things to say. :-) I wish I really knew what brings out the occasional combativeness. Maybe as I progress through deschooling, they will both feel more comfortable opening up more to me where I could really hear what they truly feel and what's in their heart. Maybe it has nothing to do with each other. Maybe he was having a moment...a bad afternoon...Maybe he doesn't know how to handle relationships when he's having a bad moment/day just as I haven't always been really good at that. I don't know. So many possibilities. Now that we are focusing more on our relationship maybe some of the other stuff will dissipate.
Thanks again.
Christina.
Christina
** http://sandradodd.com/later/**
Thank you. Have been reading through these and it has been so encouraging. I think I tend to read into these moments too much. I do feel like we can turn things around, I just know I can't "force" it. That just never works. :-) I need to be more sensitive to their needs and pay attention to when tension is mounting. They talk and play so happily most of the time, then it seems like they are just nit-picking one another, combative, and it just builds. When it begins, I need to try to change the "energy" somehow. Just thinking "out loud".
Christina.
Thank you. Have been reading through these and it has been so encouraging. I think I tend to read into these moments too much. I do feel like we can turn things around, I just know I can't "force" it. That just never works. :-) I need to be more sensitive to their needs and pay attention to when tension is mounting. They talk and play so happily most of the time, then it seems like they are just nit-picking one another, combative, and it just builds. When it begins, I need to try to change the "energy" somehow. Just thinking "out loud".
Christina.
Christina
**I was the youngest in my family. My brother got very jealous since the day I was born. He sexually abused me for years. He also sold me to relatives and friends for sex since I was 5. When we became teenagers he would act very affectionate in public like if he was my boyfriend. My mom knew what he was doing to me but she didn't do anything.**
This is so heart-breaking. I too, know what it is like to not be protected by my mother. There has been no greater wound in my life. I've been characterized by some as "over-protective", but it comes from this place. I never wanted/want any of my children to ever feel that I wasn't in "their corner". It's been difficult because when I feel any of my children are being mistreated I naturally swoop in like a protective momma cat, even at the cost of my son's feelings and possibly, his self-worth. This is why I'm so thankful for the advice received here. It has given me another way to approach and look at the whole situation. Given me more possibilities so that I don't have to make an "enemy" of my son to protect my daughter, or vice versa.
Christina.
This is so heart-breaking. I too, know what it is like to not be protected by my mother. There has been no greater wound in my life. I've been characterized by some as "over-protective", but it comes from this place. I never wanted/want any of my children to ever feel that I wasn't in "their corner". It's been difficult because when I feel any of my children are being mistreated I naturally swoop in like a protective momma cat, even at the cost of my son's feelings and possibly, his self-worth. This is why I'm so thankful for the advice received here. It has given me another way to approach and look at the whole situation. Given me more possibilities so that I don't have to make an "enemy" of my son to protect my daughter, or vice versa.
Christina.
Christina
** I had my second child when my first was 2. I found nursing both of them - often at the same time - went a long way towards reducing resentment along with DH and I taking turns to spend time with each child individually.**
This is something I've wondered about. My two year old, Zoe, weaned herself when she was 10 mths, but she loves boobs. This may be TMI, but when we cuddle, she sticks her hand down my cleavage and smells it and says, "smells pretty". LOL! I think it's a familiar and comforting scent to her...like she never forgot it. I've thought about, "what if when she sees the new baby nursing she wants to nurse?" What do I do? Would that be "weird" to allow her to nurse after she's been weaned for over a year? A part of me feels like "why not?" As long as she "gets the hang" of it again. I confess, I'm a little embarrassed about the question. :-)
Christina.
This is something I've wondered about. My two year old, Zoe, weaned herself when she was 10 mths, but she loves boobs. This may be TMI, but when we cuddle, she sticks her hand down my cleavage and smells it and says, "smells pretty". LOL! I think it's a familiar and comforting scent to her...like she never forgot it. I've thought about, "what if when she sees the new baby nursing she wants to nurse?" What do I do? Would that be "weird" to allow her to nurse after she's been weaned for over a year? A part of me feels like "why not?" As long as she "gets the hang" of it again. I confess, I'm a little embarrassed about the question. :-)
Christina.
Sandra Dodd
-=-I wish I really knew what brings out the occasional combativeness. Maybe as I progress through deschooling, they will both feel more comfortable opening up more to me where I could really hear what they truly feel and what's in their heart.-=-
Don't depend on words.
That would be like waiting until an infant could speak clearly to even wonder what he might prefer.
If your meals are timed, are they getting hungry?
If food is available all the time, are they forgetting to eat it? Hunger is sometimes a trigger. And hunger doesn't need a whole meal to be satisfied. A snack can make a big difference.
http://sandradodd.com/eating/monkeyplatter
Sandra
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Don't depend on words.
That would be like waiting until an infant could speak clearly to even wonder what he might prefer.
If your meals are timed, are they getting hungry?
If food is available all the time, are they forgetting to eat it? Hunger is sometimes a trigger. And hunger doesn't need a whole meal to be satisfied. A snack can make a big difference.
http://sandradodd.com/eating/monkeyplatter
Sandra
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Sandra Dodd
-=-Would that be "weird" to allow her to nurse after she's been weaned for over a year? A part of me feels like "why not?" As long as she "gets the hang" of it again. I confess, I'm a little embarrassed about the question. :-)-=-
It's likely that she won't remember how, but it would be nice, if you're willing, to agree to let her try.
Sandra
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It's likely that she won't remember how, but it would be nice, if you're willing, to agree to let her try.
Sandra
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